Gay Marriage in California

[ehukai26]

Money from the government, that is what it seems to come down to. So many of these issues have to do with GETTING MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

[Z8nate]

I think average gay folk get caught in the middle between the gay political movement and their opposition. For instance, why is it good for gays to have the California school system outlaw the words "parents," "Father," "Mother," and replace them with "partner?" It serves against the peace gays have won. Now a lot of people see gays as a group wanting to confuse gender roles for everyone. Its a bridge too far for your political advocacy. I garauntee the storm is 100% stronger because of this.

[Z8nate]

I'm glad we can have a civil debate here about this issue. Thanks for engaging instead of demegogery. I want to make it clear that I have no ill will against gay people. I just want to define marriage as a union that celebrates traditional values of men and women self sacrificing in the spirit of love, becoming moms and dads for the raising of the next generation.  It is not a natural thing for a man to settle with one woman, but it is right and must be fosterd and rewarded as special.

[Z8nate]

Its not an "anti-gay" marriage ammendment. Its defining marriage as its been for 10,000 years! Not even the Greeks and Romans had gay marriage, and they got alone fine in those cultures.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

It prevents me from haveing the same right that you enjoy, marrying the person I love. It does this solely based on the fact that my partner and I are both male. That is anti-gay, plain and simple. The fact that marriage has been defined differently in the past has no berring on the modern era. In the past different races weren't allowed to marry, before that women were seen as their husbands property, and before that men were allowed to have as many wives and concubines as they wanted.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

Times change, usualy for the better.

[Z8nate]

WRONG you have all the same rights to have a binding relationship with the person you love. Your arguement is dated and tired, besides being incorrect. No one will dissallow any privilage you have with your parter if you are in a civil union. No one is going to rip you two apart. But gay marriage is anti-procreative (a very important element in a real marriage.) If you want the word marriage attached to you forget it. Respect is earned not legislated.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

There is nothing wrong with what I said. While I do have the right to have a binding relationship, I mentioned marriage. You can marry the person you love, I can't. And as far as being anti-procreative, many types of heterosexual marriages are anti-procreative. Under your logic we would have to deny marriage to straight couples in which one or both partners are unable to concive, we would also have to ban married couples from purchasing contraception.

[Z8nate]

Again, your arguments are flimsy because no one has ever stood up to you. Breeders get married with the intent that they will at some point concieve children. Gays enter a union knowing they cannot. It is a concious choice on their part. Also, controception is a tool for timing a birth not irradicating it.

[Z8nate]

Marriage is for breeders- civil unions are for gays. Marriage is an institution over 5,000 years old, it has universal respect because the 50,000 generations of men and women have made it respectible. State recignised gay unions are new, with no such respect behind it. Respect must be earned. It will take another 1,000 years of sexual loyalty among gay partners to instill similar respect. Then you can start calling it gay "marriage." Frankly I think fidelity and gay are rare commonalities.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

You make some interesting points, but I still fell the same way about my arguments.

"Breeders get married with the intent that they will at some point concieve children."

So, let's say a heterosexual couple made it clear that they were marrying only for love, not to produce children. Both partners have undergone sterilization procedures, a vasectomy and a tubal ligation (which is not unheard of.) Would you deny this couple the right to marry?

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

"Frankly I think fidelity and gay are rare commonalities."

I definitly disagree with this comment. However, taking this argument to it's logical conclusion, what other group needs to prove their faithfulness to their spouse in order to marry?

[Z8nate]

They already have. Look I am disapointed with what society has done to the idea of sexual fidelity in the last 40 years. I am a rare person who waited until after I was married before I had sex. It used to be that way for the majority of people with noteable exceptions. Generation upon generation of people have proved marital fidelity. Recently it has taken a few black eyes. I would like to change lots of things about marriage. I want to roll back no fault divorce for one.

[Z8nate]

Interesting scenario. All I can say to that is the vast majority of breeders marry with the intent of kids down the line. I agree in that some folks get sterilized but usually it is after they already had kids, not always, but usually. Plus vasectomies are reversible. So rather than asking a bunch of obtrusive questions a clear line can be drawn. Procreation in a stable environ must be celebrated to ensure the next gen. Reasonable commited relations must be respected.Thus Marriage & Civil Union

[cance1991]

yet there is the high level of divorce in straight couples yet gay partners stay together for decades. check your facts. also marriage was widely used to gain money. not for love

[cance1991]

actually there is a way for gay couples to have kids its called adoption dumb ass

[Z8nate]

You are new to this arguement, so I will let the personal attack go. But gays can NEVER have kids together, they must rely on social ills as a group in order to adopt children into their union. The straight divorce rate is squewed because about 25% of ppl cant get it together, so they keep marrying and divorcing many times over. So 50% of all straigh folk DON'T divorce. between 60-70% of straight ppl in America stay married the first time.

[Knockturnall1]

dud, this is so fucking wrong, what the fuck i hate fucking faggots, why god why god have you forsaken us, please i beg of you to do something for this evil people.

[Emyrald317]

I am very happy that California has allowed gay couples to marry. I am sick and tired of hearing from religious groups. These religious organizations do NOT pay taxes so please keep your mouths shut or pay taxes on all the money you make! There is a reason we separate church and state. We can't discriminate because of one's religious beliefs but they sure as hell can discriminate against ones sexual preference! Hypocrites! I hope that the opposition to gay marriage loses big in November.

[cointosser0]

ok....so first of all, get off your gay ass and get a fucking job.

i think i'll move to california and marry my dog...we have such a loving relationship...and why not? i love my dog, she loves me? let all people marry their dogs...

enjoy the sodomy fest while it last because come november...it's overrrrrrrr.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

"ok....so first of all, get off your gay ass and get a fucking job."

Wow! I never thought of that! It's so much trouble living with no income, I didn't realize that I could just simply get a job.

Sarcasm aside, getting a job, especialy where I live, is harder than you're making it out to be. If you haven't noticed, we're in a recession. I'd been actively seeking employment for as long as I was unemployed. Yes "was", I now have a job, so you can keep your ad hominem attacks to yourself.

[ArcanumShinobi]

duh dogs can sign legal documents. ur so right.

[Clemburke1111]

Chuck, didnt your Gov. say he would support gay marriage and go against the voting against gay marriage?

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

I don't think he said that he would go against voters, I think what he said was that he would support the decision that the courts made, whatever that means. To tell you the truth, I'm still confused as to what he ment.

[Clemburke1111]

Chuck to me it means that if he goes with the courts then that means he over rides the voters. We live in a republic, not a demoracy in cases of Civil rights we do not get to vote on that.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

Ah, I suppose that makes sense. I still think that it would send a powerful message to anti-gay rights activists if the measure were struck down and didn't even have a chance to get vetoed by the gov.

[Clemburke1111]

Chuck , to me its simple Arnold will veto any thing that stops Gay marriage.

[nicksum29]

If your government votes on such an issue, then it tells the world a great deal about about your democracy. In South Africa in 1989, the white minority was asked to vote on whether or not they thought the black majority should have the right to vote. No one saw the absurdity of voting on this basic human rights issue. Why does America think it's OK to vote on issues of basic human rights? It is obscene... an abomination? Sorry, but honestly don't thing you stand a chance in November.

[BRANDONCARMODY]

We have to vote against gay hate.

[Clemburke1111]

BRANDON, I do not think you will have to worry, The Gov. Will veto any ones need to vote against Gay marriage.

[ichorwraith]

No it is not natural for humans! Fucking animals are too brain-deprived to know the difference! Think men should fuck each others' asses because penguins and monkeys do! For fucking shame! The shit you fudgepackers will listen to from windbag lobbyists! And I meant that and when I say the word "FAGGOT!" and "FAGGOT!" again I'm a God Damn veteran and I bought my rights. Delete me and you're a faggot terrorist.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

Why would I ever delete such love-filled comments such as yours. No, I'm going to leave them up so everyone can see the type of person that your position represents.

[iGodYou]

How did you become a homo?

Do you think it's genetics or did your relative molested you?

May be you have been watching a gay porn and got reprogrammed?

Don't lie!

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

I've never been molested, and I knew I was gay, way before I ever saw any type of porno, gay or straight. I actualy don't really like porn.

[iGodYou]

Do you know any blogger who turned homo in older age?

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

I don't know very many older people, but you're under the misconception that people can "turn" gay. Being gay is having an attraction to the same sex, not the act of having sex with the same sex. You have that attraction your whole life weather you choose to act on it or not.

[Clemburke1111]

i, It is nature no nuture, There is over 2000 species with homosexuality in them. Scientist have concluded it is nature,,,please do your research

[Clemburke1111]

iGod, why is it that most people that are involved in religion are pediophiles? It seems that every time I turn on the news its people gasping saying" Why,, he was a Minister or a decon of the church, I had no idea he like to molest kids"

[TheJacolyte]

Yes! Exactly!

Marriage is not a governmental function. They ban gay marriage, but give tax breaks to married people. Which is totally fucked up. This is Ron Paul's understanding of the situation too... He caters to no special interest.

As for the videos, they're improving most definitely.

I could still hear the A/C though :(

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

Yeah, noticed that myself, but it's way better than it is when I sit at my desk and record, unless I turn the A/C off. But who wants to do that when it's 105°.

As to your other point, I think they should either get rid of state sanctioned opposite sex marriages, or recognise same sex marriages. Either way I'd be happy. It's straight couples that are receiving the "special rights" that the fundies are claiming gays are asking for.

[sral187]

I support your cause 100%. I don't understand why in the year 2008 there are still bigots out there who want to hurt people. I don't live in California... so I can't vote against the gay ban initiative, but I want to help. Any ideas of what I can do to help out and keep gay marriage legal in California?

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

Let any friends and family from California know about it, favorite this video, send this video to other YouTubers, even if they aren't in California. It will get around to the Californians eventualy.

[ichorwraith]

Tell ya what I would do if I were dictator for a day. Ya wanna be gay legally? Fine! I'd give y'all all the 10% off Vaseline coupons you can carry and tell ya to get your wallered-out asses back in the closet and keep what happens in there and all word and knowledge of it in the closet as well. First one walking down the street with a picket sign gets prosecuted. That way, you faggots wouldn't get "persecuted" and I could rid my eyes of your filth. I call it a 'daisy-duster of a deal' ;)

[sral187]

I don't understand how people like you can still exist in 2008. Why do you hate people just because of thier sexual orientation? How can you watch this video and still feel that it is okay to post such a horrible, hate-filled comment like that? OMG have a heart!

[adamblack3030]

ichorwraith has his own ideals.. Where you go with the flow of everyone else... Oh no its 2008 lets stick our dicks in assholes. Stupid fags.

[mormonanswerman]

"I don't understand why in the year 2008 there are still bigots out there who want to hurt people."

Its not bigotry. Its push back. You guys are coming into our churches. You come out of your closet, and now you want to come into our closet. Get out of the closet of our churches and stop suing us to change our churches.

you mess with churches and you will lose.

[sral187]

Uhh yeah, it's bigotry. We are not trying to confront churches, we are just trying to have our basic civil rights recognized the way they should be. You and conservative religious people like you try to force your religious ignorance upon us by trying to pass legislation to deny us our basic civil rights. Thankfully religious Americans are starting to realize this and eventually people like you will lose and even in the deep south, gay marriage will eventually be recognized!

[job1201204]

You are indeed trying to bust into our churches. You fucking gays are a menace to all mankind, plus the judges ignored the majority of people who did not want gay marriage. You fucking gays.......plus, if you claim you are born gay, which is total crap, then are you born to speak with a lisp? Fucking gays need to be banned from living here.

[babybearpook]

ooh okay. well the judges are there to stop the majority from hurting and discriminating on the minority. Marriage between blacks and whites didn't pass the majority vote. However, in their wisdom, the judges made it happen and now most people would NEVER try to deny that kind of marriage. Secondly a lisp, really? That is an ignorant stereotype which you would know if you OPENED you eyes and looked out into the real world.

[wpem]

They think that if being gay is accepted, all the married men in the country will go gay and leave their wives and children. Haha.

Opposing homosexuality is like opposing people writing with their left hand.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

That's actualy a good analogy, I use it sometimes. I think there's a relation to the two issues. If there is a gay gene, I wouldn't be surprised if it's very similar to the gene for left-handedness.

[PerishBrave]

i just never understood: how could ppl be so cruel as to deny ppl the right to do something that harms no one in any way?

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

The only thing I can think it has anything to do with is fear. People are afraid of what they don't understand. From my expirence, even some of the most devout christians will re-think their position on various gay issues when they know that someone like me, that they already had respect for, is gay.

[mormonanswerman]

it does harm. see my video and you will see. Churches are now getting sued, the Methodist Church got sued by gays for not performing a marriage.

Sorry gay people, but Christians are not going to be pushed around and idly stand by. We are standing up.

[PerishBrave]

umm, im glad they sued. you shouldn't be denying them the right to get married! thats the stupid thing. the only harm is harm done by the churches denying someone the right to get married. it doesn't explain how being gay does harm to others, that just explains how the churches refusal to marry the couple does harm.

[mormonanswerman]

so you have total contempt for churches, and personal freedom of religion?

Then you would have no problem with people making you think as well?

Listen, you can't go around thinking that you can legislate other people's thinking, or worse, their belief.

[PerishBrave]

i never said that. your putting words in my mouth. but i believe the last thing you said can be applied to the churches that deny the rights of others who want to get married. it isn't just that they deny the marriage, they fight to make sure others can not. THAT was the point. i see no harm in letting them get married. you can say you don't want it allowed in a church, just don't fight to make sure they don't get the same rights, or worse, are not able to marry in the first place.

[sral187]

They should be sued! A church would be sued if they refused to marry a couple where the woman was black and the man was white, why should a gay couple be any different?

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

This is the way that I see the situation. I feel that there is a church state seperation issue here, if a church doesn't want to perform gay marriages, it shouldn't be forced to. The problem comes in when a "religious group" tries to claim the rights of a church when denying the rights to gay couples to marry off of church property. I think that if an area is not strictly used for religious service, and a fee is charged to use the area, gay rights should not be denied.

[ChuckMeIntoHell]

Actualy, I did a little research on this issue, and it seems like the only lawsuit that was filed was by the Methodist Church. The gay couple wishing to get married on a seaside resort owned by the Methodist Church, filed a complaint, not a lawsuit, against the resort for denying them the right to have their ceremony at the resort. The state of New Jersey began an investigation, and before even reaching a conclusion, was sued by the Church.