I played 4E for 1 year. I was a fan boy. Then I sat in on a Pathfinder game. After 1 session I ordered the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and sold my 4E set and I have never looked back. I just purchased the Tome of Horrors book yesterday. My wife is mad.
@shawnthedm. Thanx for the input. That's one of my gripes about 4E...combat takes way too long. I'm DMing a group of new players. We're playing an extensive 1st Edition campaign.I love going old school with new players. Peace.
After playing in several 4th edition games and getting bogged down in 2 hours of combat, I actually look forward to playing pathfinder. It seems to be a great game, and I am kind of disappointed I waited so long to try it.
I'm so tired of seeing person after person say "Just play pathfinder, forget 4e.". It's bull. I like both systems, and I play both, because they are DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, and both have their merits. 4th edition has alot over pathfinder. First and foremost being that new players can actually understand it the first session or two. My girlfriend was able to make her own 4e character 2 sessions in. She just now, about 5 or 6 sessions in, completely understood how to make one in pathfinder. 4e is good.
I've been playing since the days of 1st Edition,and recently have played the 4th for the first time. Wow.It was great..very streamlined.I love the idea of classes not being restricted to certain races.As much as I have always enjoyed playing Paladins and Rangers...I'm really starting to love the Warlock.I recommend the Fourth Edition to the novice players and to the old-timers like me! Thanx.
@thejimm2009 I played in several games, and besides the balance issues, I just don't seem to care for it that much. It bogs down combat and I really dislike the skill system. My two cents.
Sweet video guys, I think you missed an important positive aspect of 4th ed. - New players & New DMs - I have had lots of people interested to try D&D for the first time. Even longtime players are wanting to run their own game because 4th ed is so easy to run as a n00b. I have very little complaints overall.
When 4.0 came out I quit gaming. I couldn't make the adjustment. Recently though I started a D20 modern game, throwing in all the conspiracy theory and conspiracy fact that I've picked up over the last couple years. I also setup a digital map projection system using RP tool mapping program and a ceiling mounted mirror. I also setup a wemote so the players can use an IR pen to move their tokens around the map board. It's a cool system.
@nozzer2002 We wound up still playing 4e, but making quite a few adjustments. If you're interested, you can read about them on Boomer's blog on the website.
And in 3.5 which it did nothing of the sort because all the classes were solo classes. Yes in 4e you can uses surges but that is to help the game progress and kind of makes sense (taking a breather, or bandaging, or having your cleric use healing a little more efficiently). And as for role-play who says you can't do it, just because the book doesn't have it in the rules doesn't mean you can't use it.
And the pigeon hole thing is really beyond me isn't that the hole point of picking a class in the first place and can easily be fixed by multi-classing. 4e yes simplifies it but it also make enjoying the game more fun and not spending hours making characters. We have been playing it since its inception and love it because as a TEAM, which is the whole freakin point the game is to encourage team work and with out it you fail.
In 3.5 each class really had nothing to do especially melee characters (you just sat there hitting things skills didn't really play a good role in combat because if you used them it just made that one encounter last the entire night) and the wizard once you ran out of spells what then, go sit in the corner while everyone else beats them with their weapons okay great fun there
Seriously, guys. Try Pathfinder by Paizo. 4th edition strongly pigeon-holes characters, reduces many roleplaying interactions to a simple mechanic, and you have to buy nearly a dozen books to really have a decent campaign. I have tried it several times, as I have also tried Pathfinder several time. Pathfinder (popularly known as D&D 3.75) wins hands-down. All you really need is the Core Book and the Beastiary to get your campaign rolling.
@petep4peace As time goes on, I'm more and more interested in what Pathfinder has to offer... I think I'll be picking up a Core Book sometime soon to check it out - just to make sure it's not rose-colored 3e glasses at work.
I played 4 since it came out and i tried to like it, i really tried. But it sucks. Very poor concept, very simple and quite frankly dumb down. I am so going back to 3.5 assuming i can find a group that still plays 3.5.
Hope you grey wolf guys answer. I felt like dnd games are like bridges. A bridge can be big and heavy ( How thick are the rules). But its also inportant how big of a load it carries (Fun). Its not inportant if your bridge is HUGE but only carries 3 pouns. I felt like although 3.5e (Try 3.75 pathfinder) was very big, it could hold more in comparison to 4e. The Balancing out of classes was a VERY bad decision because it strongly pigeonholes me.
Roo here. I agree with your reasoning. My group plays 4e and we have fun with it, but I still miss all the options that were available to characters in 3.5e. I could spend hours picking out skills and spells for my wizard in that, but now I feel limited. I'd love to play some pathfinder, but my group feels pretty invested in 4e now.
The class balancing was crazy at first, but each class is getting more flavor as supplemental materials come out. I think we'll need to do a 2 year review podcast.
hi hi.. they should have made 4th edition as they did with the latest starwars system.. not this video game style verion to bring in the ps3/xbox crowd.. none of my friends will play this verion and i agree.. just having very few spells like video games.. alone destroys this system.. but i'm sure you and your group had to decide to change or not and made your choice.. i just hope darksun 4.0 isn't like this system.. no offense... darksun is great if u haven't heard of it.. great world
@ClanOfTheGrayWolf I managed to pick up 4th Edition as a "to print copy" otherwise leaked version with out a border, and after the fact that rolling my character was a third choice that should not have been used, and skill challenges instead of old fashioned role playing it didn't take me long to not like it.
As they say, you don't have to finish a bowl of shit to know it tastes bad
thanks for the review graywolf,but i think you got it wrong ive been playing d&d on and off for 20 years now 4ed is nothing more than the world of warcraft but with pen and paper i dont think its being honest to its forebearers at all. Many thanks anyway for the review hope you get some more views !
About a year ago I would have fully agreed with you. But with the release of books like Arcane Power and Player's Handbook 2, I think they've added the ability to make each player's character their own - and wizards not play like fighters.
The Commodore wasn't even really enamored with the paladin he's been playing for a year until Martial Power came out - but now he loves it. He's got that old 3rd edition feeling back. Hate to say it, but the added books help a lot.
This is complete and total garbage. The whole 4e = WoW thing is ridiculous. Been playing it since release, and never once has it reminded me of anything else but D&D. I'm just happy to finally have a well balanced system, while keeping the classes very unique to themselves.
i dont know man, im tempted to disagree. the atmosphere of the early editions is lost. it just feels like a race to level up now, wheres the sense of adventure?
yeah my friends stayed with 3.5 system.. i think personally the change they should have made if they should even change at all would be to take up the starwars role playing system... how so? you either get a talent or a feat..but you get something every level that you can pick for yourself..talents are more of job related.. like warrior stuff or mages etc but you get to pick which one.. or work your way to it as u get the requirements.. feats are feats basicly you can level any class with np
@nozzer2002 So you have to buy more books to fix the what the earlier books lack??? I just cant allow myself to do that. If you you do get a chance try pathfinder. Every system has flaws but pathfinder is what they should have done with D&D.
hmm, theres at least a bunch of pdf character sheets that automaticly calculate stuff for your character automaticly, not to mention its fairly easy to use excel to make your own character sheet, virsa versa make a map in excel :P.. i also have another java based program for dm or and maybe players i forgot name on it but i have it on my other pc, that is extremely custom on everything, where you can build character, setup partys, load rulesets from different dnds and all calculations automatic.
I played 4E for 1 year. I was a fan boy. Then I sat in on a Pathfinder game. After 1 session I ordered the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and sold my 4E set and I have never looked back. I just purchased the Tome of Horrors book yesterday. My wife is mad.
anarchopinko 4 months ago
@shawnthedm. Thanx for the input. That's one of my gripes about 4E...combat takes way too long. I'm DMing a group of new players. We're playing an extensive 1st Edition campaign.I love going old school with new players. Peace.
thejimm2009 10 months ago
After playing in several 4th edition games and getting bogged down in 2 hours of combat, I actually look forward to playing pathfinder. It seems to be a great game, and I am kind of disappointed I waited so long to try it.
shawnthedm 10 months ago
I'm so tired of seeing person after person say "Just play pathfinder, forget 4e.". It's bull. I like both systems, and I play both, because they are DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, and both have their merits. 4th edition has alot over pathfinder. First and foremost being that new players can actually understand it the first session or two. My girlfriend was able to make her own 4e character 2 sessions in. She just now, about 5 or 6 sessions in, completely understood how to make one in pathfinder. 4e is good.
Mitsukaibaka 1 year ago
I've been playing since the days of 1st Edition,and recently have played the 4th for the first time. Wow.It was great..very streamlined.I love the idea of classes not being restricted to certain races.As much as I have always enjoyed playing Paladins and Rangers...I'm really starting to love the Warlock.I recommend the Fourth Edition to the novice players and to the old-timers like me! Thanx.
thejimm2009 1 year ago
@thejimm2009 I played in several games, and besides the balance issues, I just don't seem to care for it that much. It bogs down combat and I really dislike the skill system. My two cents.
shawnthedm 10 months ago
lol fellow geeks is right ....keep up the good work boys
melak6 1 year ago
Sweet video guys, I think you missed an important positive aspect of 4th ed. - New players & New DMs - I have had lots of people interested to try D&D for the first time. Even longtime players are wanting to run their own game because 4th ed is so easy to run as a n00b. I have very little complaints overall.
Keep Rolling 20's.............. :)
anchorbass24 1 year ago
When 4.0 came out I quit gaming. I couldn't make the adjustment. Recently though I started a D20 modern game, throwing in all the conspiracy theory and conspiracy fact that I've picked up over the last couple years. I also setup a digital map projection system using RP tool mapping program and a ceiling mounted mirror. I also setup a wemote so the players can use an IR pen to move their tokens around the map board. It's a cool system.
watch?v=VZ665vtj8nA
vention4wh 1 year ago
you guys still playing 4th or did you move over to pathfinder?
nozzer2002 1 year ago
@nozzer2002 We wound up still playing 4e, but making quite a few adjustments. If you're interested, you can read about them on Boomer's blog on the website.
ClanOfTheGrayWolf 1 year ago
Your the DM use what ever you want change if you like both 4e and 3.5 said the same thing in all the books.
marinesusmc 1 year ago
And in 3.5 which it did nothing of the sort because all the classes were solo classes. Yes in 4e you can uses surges but that is to help the game progress and kind of makes sense (taking a breather, or bandaging, or having your cleric use healing a little more efficiently). And as for role-play who says you can't do it, just because the book doesn't have it in the rules doesn't mean you can't use it.
marinesusmc 1 year ago
And the pigeon hole thing is really beyond me isn't that the hole point of picking a class in the first place and can easily be fixed by multi-classing. 4e yes simplifies it but it also make enjoying the game more fun and not spending hours making characters. We have been playing it since its inception and love it because as a TEAM, which is the whole freakin point the game is to encourage team work and with out it you fail.
marinesusmc 1 year ago
In 3.5 each class really had nothing to do especially melee characters (you just sat there hitting things skills didn't really play a good role in combat because if you used them it just made that one encounter last the entire night) and the wizard once you ran out of spells what then, go sit in the corner while everyone else beats them with their weapons okay great fun there
marinesusmc 1 year ago
I can actually see that none of you guys understand RPG pen and paper game and probably didn't read and play the game fully.
marinesusmc 1 year ago
i thought 2nd addition was by far the best
Exus11 1 year ago
Seriously, guys. Try Pathfinder by Paizo. 4th edition strongly pigeon-holes characters, reduces many roleplaying interactions to a simple mechanic, and you have to buy nearly a dozen books to really have a decent campaign. I have tried it several times, as I have also tried Pathfinder several time. Pathfinder (popularly known as D&D 3.75) wins hands-down. All you really need is the Core Book and the Beastiary to get your campaign rolling.
petep4peace 1 year ago
@petep4peace As time goes on, I'm more and more interested in what Pathfinder has to offer... I think I'll be picking up a Core Book sometime soon to check it out - just to make sure it's not rose-colored 3e glasses at work.
ClanOfTheGrayWolf 1 year ago
@petep4peace reality check - 4th edition is the first one TO ACTUALLY HAVE COSTOMISATION
doombybbr 1 year ago
2nd edition is easier than any other Editions keep it AD&D
Tabix420 1 year ago
I played 4 since it came out and i tried to like it, i really tried. But it sucks. Very poor concept, very simple and quite frankly dumb down. I am so going back to 3.5 assuming i can find a group that still plays 3.5.
clergame 2 years ago
@clergame agreed...4e feels way too simplistic like it's for elementary school kids. I love 3.5 character builds.
Does anyone actually play 4e other than these guys?
FluffyFeralMarmot 1 year ago
Hope you grey wolf guys answer. I felt like dnd games are like bridges. A bridge can be big and heavy ( How thick are the rules). But its also inportant how big of a load it carries (Fun). Its not inportant if your bridge is HUGE but only carries 3 pouns. I felt like although 3.5e (Try 3.75 pathfinder) was very big, it could hold more in comparison to 4e. The Balancing out of classes was a VERY bad decision because it strongly pigeonholes me.
TheNewOldVeteran 2 years ago
Roo here. I agree with your reasoning. My group plays 4e and we have fun with it, but I still miss all the options that were available to characters in 3.5e. I could spend hours picking out skills and spells for my wizard in that, but now I feel limited. I'd love to play some pathfinder, but my group feels pretty invested in 4e now.
The class balancing was crazy at first, but each class is getting more flavor as supplemental materials come out. I think we'll need to do a 2 year review podcast.
ClanOfTheGrayWolf 2 years ago
hi hi.. they should have made 4th edition as they did with the latest starwars system.. not this video game style verion to bring in the ps3/xbox crowd.. none of my friends will play this verion and i agree.. just having very few spells like video games.. alone destroys this system.. but i'm sure you and your group had to decide to change or not and made your choice.. i just hope darksun 4.0 isn't like this system.. no offense... darksun is great if u haven't heard of it.. great world
shadowlesswalls 2 years ago
@ClanOfTheGrayWolf I managed to pick up 4th Edition as a "to print copy" otherwise leaked version with out a border, and after the fact that rolling my character was a third choice that should not have been used, and skill challenges instead of old fashioned role playing it didn't take me long to not like it.
As they say, you don't have to finish a bowl of shit to know it tastes bad
Go to pathfinder, you will have a lot of fun.
Andulvar 1 year ago
man. I played 4th once. it is simpler but i like 3rd much better
liberalsocialist353 2 years ago
i like 3.5 better, but would like to give 4th ed a try
daswaim1990 2 years ago
wait do ppl play by there self??
aspenbonzer 2 years ago
i wish d&d never went to online.
xStlouisfan3x 2 years ago
thanks for your view Droogie ,you stick with 4ed and i will stick with 2ed ! happy gaming with whatever system you play !
nozzer2002 2 years ago
thanks for the review graywolf,but i think you got it wrong ive been playing d&d on and off for 20 years now 4ed is nothing more than the world of warcraft but with pen and paper i dont think its being honest to its forebearers at all. Many thanks anyway for the review hope you get some more views !
nozzer2002 2 years ago
About a year ago I would have fully agreed with you. But with the release of books like Arcane Power and Player's Handbook 2, I think they've added the ability to make each player's character their own - and wizards not play like fighters.
The Commodore wasn't even really enamored with the paladin he's been playing for a year until Martial Power came out - but now he loves it. He's got that old 3rd edition feeling back. Hate to say it, but the added books help a lot.
Thanks for the comment!
ClanOfTheGrayWolf 2 years ago
This is complete and total garbage. The whole 4e = WoW thing is ridiculous. Been playing it since release, and never once has it reminded me of anything else but D&D. I'm just happy to finally have a well balanced system, while keeping the classes very unique to themselves.
Droogie128 2 years ago 2
i dont know man, im tempted to disagree. the atmosphere of the early editions is lost. it just feels like a race to level up now, wheres the sense of adventure?
phaedruslive 2 years ago
That's 100% the fault of the group and the DM. I have yet to experience this. It all depends on your playstyle.
Droogie128 2 years ago
yeah my friends stayed with 3.5 system.. i think personally the change they should have made if they should even change at all would be to take up the starwars role playing system... how so? you either get a talent or a feat..but you get something every level that you can pick for yourself..talents are more of job related.. like warrior stuff or mages etc but you get to pick which one.. or work your way to it as u get the requirements.. feats are feats basicly you can level any class with np
shadowlesswalls 2 years ago
@nozzer2002 So you have to buy more books to fix the what the earlier books lack??? I just cant allow myself to do that. If you you do get a chance try pathfinder. Every system has flaws but pathfinder is what they should have done with D&D.
Quickgrif 1 year ago
I can't believe this has so few views. Such a great review of fourth edition in general. Definitely checking out your website.
martryn 2 years ago
hmm, theres at least a bunch of pdf character sheets that automaticly calculate stuff for your character automaticly, not to mention its fairly easy to use excel to make your own character sheet, virsa versa make a map in excel :P.. i also have another java based program for dm or and maybe players i forgot name on it but i have it on my other pc, that is extremely custom on everything, where you can build character, setup partys, load rulesets from different dnds and all calculations automatic.
FusionNinjin 2 years ago
Thanks for posting your opinion on D&D.
Nice review!
FPietros 2 years ago