J.D.Zelenka (1679-1745) - Part 3 - Regina coeli laetare

[johnevamy]

all things aside they do sing those "tʃ"'s very sweetly :)

[callimacos]

the pronounciation sucks,as always among not catholics choirs -.-

[vicfrankenstein]

@callimacos

What an ignorant comment. If you knew anything about historical performance you'd know that they (and they're not a choir - they're three world-class soloists) are doing Czech pronunciation - this is what Zelenka's Latin sounded like, and he was as Catholic as Palestrina. Every country has traditionally had its own (equally valid) pronunciation of Latin - I'm afraid Italians ceased to have any claim to a normative pronunciation the moment it ceased to be a living language.

[johnevamy]

@vicfrankenstein learned a modicum of different pronunciations at York University from peter seymour. Im convinced by the theory, not so by the results. callimacos I think was making a similar point, I much prefer the 'western' european pronunciations aesthetically! not criticising the theory, just why change a lovely word like "coeli" to some grubby sound resembling "tsurly" - sounds like it loses something to me. lovely singing however! It IS valid, but I am culturally prejudiced :)

[vicfrankenstein]

@johnevamy

Well, as long as you realise that that’s a completely subjective position, and that your being more or less convinced by the evidence has no bearing on its validity. I do take issue with your value judgements: how is /ts/ a “grubby sound” compared to /tʃ/? And if “tsurly” was your attempt to make the Czech pronunciation look ridiculous, I’m afraid by the same token your “lovely word” would have to be reduced to “churly”, since the vowels are exactly the same in the two ...

[vicfrankenstein]

... pronunciations - perhaps you pronounce it ['tʃeɪli], and ‘ur’ is simply how you hear the correct vowel, namely /ɛ/. I suspect the Romans (who were, after all, the only native speakers of the language) would’ve found all these pronunciations repulsive, and even in more recent times the Italian pronunciation was never considered standard until the 20th century, and then only in Catholic contexts. I’m baffled by the idea that a piece might “lose something” by being performed ...

[vicfrankenstein]

... as it was intended to be performed rather than, well, as it was not intended to be performed.

Though, to be honest, I’m more worried that you think callimacos was making any kind of a point.

[vicfrankenstein]

(Incidentally, in case anyone thinks I’m somehow biased against Italian Latin, I should say that I am actually Italian - and Catholic. And I would personally never sing the plainchant Regina caeli with anything other than the traditional Italian pronunciation - except, that is, in the context of a non-Italian piece.)

[johnevamy]

@vicfrankenstein nice repost, friend. coeli is more chay than chur in the church latin i grew up with, but i take your points. as to the argument of evidence, as a person of faith you can see that one may beleive subjectively without objective proof, or (in my case, not to call into question religion!) even flout common concensus in favour of a comfortable or comforting aesthetic position. callimacos may not have a point, but he or she has an opinion, and the more illogical, the better, I say!

[johnevamy]

@vicfrankenstein nice repost, friend. coeli is more chay than chur in the church latin i grew up with, but i take your points. as to the argument of evidence, as a person of faith you can see that one may beleive subjectively without objective proof, or (in my case, not to call into question religion!) even flout common concensus in favour of a comfortable or comforting aesthetic position. callimacos may not have a point, but he or she has an opinion, and the more illogical, the better, I say!

[ZELENKAPB]

My last name is Zelenka (Pat Zelenka), and I feel proud to share the same last name. Have no idea if I'm a relative, but I can dream, lol.

Simply amazing music!!!

[Piquet36]

@ZELENKAPB I hope you are. It would be nice to know that there are some living relatives of old Jan. He was a brilliant and troubled man. This particular piece is one of my all time favourite Baroque works.

[armycasa]

Wonderful Zelenka. Hamazing intepretation

[edraas]

Wonderful voices, great interpretation and excellent coaching by Robert King. Congratulations!!

(from Engenho Musical Paraty)

[luca301178]

MITICA CAROLYN