Recovery | Alcoholics Anonymous - lie first, hate second, play victim

[ndrthrdr1]

I regret picking up chips at AA. I am now counted as one of their success stories, even though their program was not what helped me. My conscious decision to stop drinking is what did it. I have no higher power, no sponsor, no confidence at all in their faith healing. I left the cult as soon as I found alternative sources of information and support. The guy making these videos, and other like-minded individuals, are the ones who actually helped me to see that it can be done without cults.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@ndrthrdr1 Thanx for this excellent testimony of a survivor of AA cultism; before you got sucked into their madness. I'm relieved and happy for the both of us.

[explorer2101]

What is it with those who want to rubbish something that works for millions of people across the globe? People who will tell you that their lives are richly improved with the help of the 12 Step Programme. People who have managed to turn themselves around to find a life that is uplifting, fulfilling, happy, productive & creative.

It's a simple program, offered free - provided by the people, for the people

Take it if it works for you

Get on with your life elsewhere if it doesn't

Simples :-)

[isegoria1]

@explorer2101 The fact is that it works for no one. You read all the other literature why dont you read the triennial survey from AA that states the recovery rate is 5% with and 5% without. Which equals zero in case you are piss poor on the math department. Even Valiants (an AA booster) study proved that AA was worse than no treatment at all but decided that people should go anyway. Your bullshit is no different than the rest of the self destructive cult speak I hear from your ilk.

[explorer2101]

@isegoria1

>>The fact is that it works for no one<<

Whatever facts & figures you might quote or state I have personally met hundreds of people who say that the program has transformed their lives & continues to do so. There are literally millions of members all over the world who say the same

I have long since learned to trust my own experience of life & of people & not to pay attention to those who distort the 'facts'

If you don't like AA, just stay away. It really couldn't be simpler

[isegoria1]

@explorer2101 Facts are facts, don't let your small cult thinking find out. You have fun basing your life on a lie. So much for honesty.

[explorer2101]

@isegoria1

I am somewhat amused at the likes of people like you telling people to disregard their own experience for the 'facts'. As if quoting something 'proves' that ones personal experience is unreal. Talk about insanity!!!! As my Irish friend would say 'Cop yourself on' - you are talking nonsense.

How arrogant to imagine that someone is going to ignore their extensive personal experience for 'facts' that totally contradict it

Wake up. Personal experience is the REAL WORLD

[isegoria1]

@explorer2101 So facts mean nothing? It is you who has the ridiculous beliefs that are unfounded an un-provable. You make the wild claims but can not back them with solid proof. If what you claim is true then there would be no studies that show that you are wrong in your assertion.I really don't give two shit what you believe, facts are facts. Funny how they stay true regardless what you believe. Unlike you I am willing to revise my position based on the facts. Thanks for sharing your insanity.

[explorer2101]

@isegoria1

Unlike you I prefer to trust what my eyes see, my ears hear, the reality around me. Especially when it contradicts the nonsense that people spout, trying to tell you that your experience is not true

When a group of people (millions across the world) find what works for them, it is crazy to insist that it doesn't

If it doesn't work for you just move on. Nothing to be gained from aggressively attacking those who benefit - apart from the illusion of a little small-minded superiority

[isegoria1]

@explorer2101 If what you TRUST to be true was in fact true we would still be blood letting instead of using antibiotics. The sure fire sign that you have a closed mind is that you refuse to revise your opinion when shown facts. Besides how is your experience as you put it more valid than mine? Your millions of people is nothing more than people who would have gotten clean no matter what. It is you people who say you have to want it. It is you who is aggressively attacking my position that your

[isegoria1]

@isegoria1 position is bullshit. I simply refuse your cults assertion that a deliberate action is some made up disease. The facts also show that medicine has changed for the better since the 30's but not AA. There are several millions of people who think as I do and refuse your cults assertions. You believe you are the majority when in fact your cult is the minority.

[explorer2101]

@isegoria1

Cult - no cult. It's irrelevant.

If it works for you great - if it doesn't, then try something else. I don't see anything wrong with that view of the world. Nothing aggressive about that.

If you prefer another method and it works for you, great. Have fun and get on with your life.

I just don't see anything to be gained by attacking others for what works for them just because it doesn't for you.

Live and let live. Find what works for you and enjoy it

[isegoria1]

@explorer2101 Irrelevant because you say so? I think not. There again is a skirting of the obvious facts to preserve your narrow point of view. You read all of the other literature from AA; why not the Triennial survey too? You are cherry picking what you believe is accurate which makes you disingenuous. Your cults states that their way is the only way, just read the book. "The ends are always the same....". Again it is you who is here attacking me. I have received death threats from your cult.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 Yes, AA and all other 12-step pseudo intellecual, quasi religious cults are toxic incubators for personality disordered narcissists who are outrageously hypocritical and dangerously assume the role of "counselors" to newcomers and other persons who are vulnerable; hurting; desperate for help; and in dire need of competent assistance, such as a psychotherapist or physician.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 These egocentric and sanctimonious AA frauds capitalize on the sufferings of those who sincerely come to them for help but wind up being exploited, debased, and driven deeper and deeper into the abyss of confusion and despair.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 12-step programs take responsibility for what individuals actually do for themselves. People in these fellowships would have overcome their addictions even without the program. A primary obstacle to overcoming addictions is then a perceived lack of self-efficacy. These hapless victims of AA indoctrination are compelled to believe that they are total incompetents who cannot achieve anything without the magical thinking of god-reliance and dependence upon a sponsor and the fellowship.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 AA teaches people learned helplessness and reinforces the self-loathing that they came to AA in order to overcome in the first place. The only difference is AAers remain self-loathing without a substance and practice the ego defense mechanism of "projecting" their own sense of self-loathing onto others. Such personality disordered behavior then becomes ensconced in AA culture and perpetuated for the individual and the group. An internecine and toxic synergism is then realized in AA.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 Only cretins with narcissistic and dependent personality disorders remain in these programs for any significant length of time, after they have initially decided to quit using substances. Trying to reason with an AA or 12-step cult devotee is tantamount to a dog chasing its tail. Ultimately, trying to reason with an AA or 12-step moron is an exercise in futility.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 As you know, AA and the 12-steps offer an ersatz palliative when one can actually “cure” himself without any structured support or clinical intervention whatsoever. I perceive substance abuse/dependence as being a “problem of living” (see Thomas Szasz) rather than an actual disease.

[salahudeenabduladl]

@isegoria1 SMART RECOVERY, Life Ring Secular Recovery, SOS, Rational Recovery, Men for Sobriety, Women for Sobriety, etc are alternatives to the scalawags, carpetbaggers, and snake oil salesmen found in the 12-step programs. I am sure you're already aware of these and many other alternative support systems, that I have yet to discover.

[isegoria1]

@explorer2101 Personal experience means absolutely nothing in proving the efficacy of your cult.

[beautifulmind546]

I sometimes wonder if AA wasn't a psuedo anonymous program and instead of going to exclusive meetings and declaring being al alcoholic among peers that if people who chose to drank were forced to sit in a room with their friends and family who they had hurt with their choices and OWNED what they did, recovery would be more possible.

[beautifulmind546]

@MrChristopheratm Isegoria1 DID provide one - PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. It really is that simple. Be responsible for the choices you make and the outcomes for each

[magdeehope143]

i totally agree with all of this... i attended aa and aa for over a year and all i met was a bunch of martyrs feeling sorry for themselves and preach some bullsh*t they didnt even practice. I believe tha recovery comes from within yourself...true recovery not spilling your life to a bunch of strangers that want to dictate your life...and create drama...the twelve steps are real...but aa and na are not...beware dont join the cult

[magdeehope143]

i totally agree with all of this... i attended aa and aa for over a year and all i met was a bunch of martyrs feeling sorry for themselves and preach some bullsh*t they didnt even practice. I believe tht recovery comes from within yourself...true recovery not spilling your life to a bunch of strangers that want to dictate your life...and create drama...the twelve steps are real...but aa and na are not...beware dont join the cult

[IGOROZKARSKY]

PHUCK BILL WILSON & COMPANY !

[gregsaylor1]

God bless ya dude.

[isegoria1]

@gregsaylor1 Which one?

[humyepright]

I thought this was funny: BB 2nd edition, pg. 245. "...there I met Bill our founder. Bill had then been dry (dry)? three years and Hank, two. At the time, I thought them just a swell pair of screwballs, for they were not only going to save all the drunks in the world but also all of the so-called normal people! All they talked of that first week-end was God, and how they were going to straighten out Jackie's and my life. In those days we really took each other's inventories firmly and often."