Monderman (1of10) - Drachten Eye Contact

[DavidHembrow]

It's perhaps worth pointing out that there is not universal agreement here in the Netherlands that this is a good thing. In fact, the last (Nov 2007) issue of the Fietserbond (Dutch Cyclists Union) newsletter had an article which mentions how shared space schemes can result in more bullying of cyclists by drivers.

The article describes these schemes as an architects dream.

We have a few of these schemes near us, and we avoid them because they are not the most pleasant places to cycle.

[DENJCA29]

Are you suggesting that traffic lights are better? I live in Orange County, CA where traffic lights and high-speed wide roads are all we have and it's a disaster! It's incredible unsafe to cycle because cars never look anymore, they only try and beat the light at 100kph.

[DavidHembrow]

I'm suggesting that to accept any such theory as being universally applicable is wrong.

There has been too much hype in the English language press about this idea, primarily by people who have not been to the Netherlands and tried it. It is applicable in some places, but not all. Traffic lights also have their place. The Dutch still build traffic lights.

Shared space has a 30 km/h speed limit here in the Netherlands. Where 100 km/h is normal you don't have the conditions for shared space.

[DENJCA29]

Perhaps, but are you aware of the poor road capacity of 100 km/h roads? You're getting to the next light faster but your overall trip time is very low on average. Your average speed on these 100 km/h roads around here is usually as bad as 20km/h on the entire segment. I know... it's quite awful. And this is why it is now interesting to dismiss the high speed limit local roads all together and just slow people down because the capacity might be the same or even better and it'll SURELY be safer.

[DavidHembrow]

Yes, I entirely understand what you mean about capacity of high speed roads. However, this has nothing to do with 100 km/h roads.

The ring-road of the city I live in (Assen in the Netherlands) has a speed limit of just 70 km/h. This is not a road that is shared with pedestrians and cyclists. All roads leading off the ring are 50 km/h with separate paths for cyclists. Residential roads are universally 30 km/h.

This is the environment in which Shared Space exists. Even here it is controversial.

[DENJCA29]

That's interesting. Reminds me of Germany when I used to live there. In Southern California, our 100 km/h roads are shared with pedestrians and bicyclists, non-cars really feel like an after-thought around here.

[Perillustris]

I want this in Budapest, Hungary!!!

Monderman 4 president!

[Niep]

The builder wants the people to interact with eachother again, but i dont think that people's savety should be on the line for that.

As a cyclist, i fear this round-a-bout,and have fear for the day that take the roundabout and get hit by a car that doesn't understand the design

[tequio]

Niep, thank you so much for your comments. Wonderful to have a local citizen's perspective.

According to Monderman, accident rates have been decreasing over the years that traffic calming has been advancing. He'd probably say that people slow down and make eye contact *because* the intersections feel more dangerous, which is desirable.

I don't write this to rebut your great post, Niep, but rather to elaborate what I believe the design intent was. Maybe we can get Hans over here...

[Niep]

As a citizen of Drachten, ill state my opinion.

It's a very nice design, especially with the fountains and all. but the roundabout is way to dangerous. Pedestrians cross the street on the biketrack because the walkway is 20 metres further on the road (watch movie : 1:50 - 2:10.

[timjonesoxforduk]

Great stuff Hans. Please come and export your theory and practice to the UK. Enlighten our car-oriented engineers!

Tim Jones

Oxford