@magybaby Sad, isn't it? That girl couldn't even grasp the meaning behind being tough on them, that he meant to stop doing things FOR them, not to start doing things TO them. Such is the silliness that pervades ones brain after jumping onto the lsraeI Firster' bandwagon. That's a passive/aggressive 5th Column mindset, right there.
This debate is almost 2 1/2 years old. Today we can see how Israelis managed with their manipulations and strong lobbies in US, to bring ME on its knees and the world, on the brink of a 3rd world war. i never thought that i would ever dare to think of the following words but these hypocrite people are trouble makers, liars and have been a pain in the neck for too long. Their history is marked with 2 major dates; 597 BC and 70 AD. i hope 2012 will be the final one, unless they make amendment.
The people of Israel have been through lots of afflictions to know what they have to do to stay alive. The marjority who stays in the comfort of their own country may not know because they have not experience what the Jews have been through.
No we need to be tough on Israel and muslims as a whole. The whole region is struggling to find its identity and much of history is being covered up or being distorted by false governments and radicals. We need to be tough on muslims to and never deny any justification in that
Alan is very good orator with sound knowledge. He has shown to the candian girl probably in love with muslim that Isarel has nothing to do with Iraq and Bush had a war because US want to be Super power no 1 otherwise saddam wants oil to be sold in Euro and stop the involvement of america. If it so automatically after 5 to 10 europe will become stronger than north america. Saddam asking Russia to involve in Middle east so Super power will be Russia. Bush has done all things to keep america No 1
One of the worst scholarly debates I have ever watched. Can't believe noone on the panel or an audience member discussed Israel's violation of international law, specifically the 4th Geneva Convention. Or Israel's herendous human rights record as reported by B'Tselem, Amnesty Int'l and Human Rights Watch.
@sugarhitman Human rights violations. When israel bombs innocents and kills thousands of children and women thats self defence? But People who have been SUBJUGATED and OPRESSED, KICKED OUT of their own lands, when they stand up and fight for this terrorist state to fall, THATS TERRORISM?
Who are the real terrorists? People who have no concern for human rights or people who are subjugated and act in self defence
@muslimgiga *yawn*..As always the usual false presentation of the Palestinians as "innocent". Palestinian civilians only die because their leaders use them as human shields while firing their Grand rockets into Israel..somehow this fact always escapes the pro-Pale Narrators...and everybody knows the Muslims stole the land of Judea from the Jews..just like they have stolen lands in Africa and elsewhere..the bloody thieves.
@muslimgiga its mainly based on how the so called terrorist tactics are used. israel bombs strategic targets using surgical strikes (the casualties should be much higher but apparently israel does a good job keeping them low). hamas shoots rockets indiscriminately on unarmed civilians. hamas hides behind their civilians and thus causes the casualties on the palestinian side. so hamas are the terrorists (i am not including palestinians as terrorists)
@BennyBigPants2490 Depends on where your getting your info from bro... Last time i checked Hamas's rockets kills about the same people in 1000000 years than israel air strikes kill in a day. :D
@muslimgiga just because hamas' rockets dont kill as many people as israel's military strikes do does not lessen their criminality. you cant use that type of argument dude.
@BennyBigPants2490 One is an aggressor another is a defender. I don't justify Hamas's methods and reject Israel's even more but if my country got invaded by jews bent on systematically murdering my people, i would do crazy stuff too.
Oppressors vs the oppressed you call it Freedom vs Terrorists. iyho
@muslimgiga but there is no systematic murder. dont exaggerate such extremeties. believe me it could be ALOT worse but it isnt. why would israel hold back if it cares nothing for the palestinians? if it were a true terrorist state the palestinians would not exist. you have to understand both sides. and given the history of israels creation, the aggressor too were the surrounding arab nations who significantly displaced the palestinians as well through their own provocation
@BennyBigPants2490 again... biased popular media. have you even seen what a palastinian living gaza looks like? if israel commits a genocide then the world court would look like hypocrites and there would be an outrage from almost every country. Palestine DOESN"T exist on the map. Because few groups like HAMAS knock at people's conscience is why it's still an issue. You call being EMBARGOED and living in huts living? To you they are an academic interest to me i see a crisis.
@BennyBigPants2490 Yes there is systematic murder. In the 1006 war in Lebanon Israel killed more than 1,200 Lebanese. 1000 of which were civilians And as NGOs found the resort to war crimes by Israeli military forces was widespread instead of just 1-2 air-units.
Bottomline is Israel is scared of any reduction in the US aid it gets, 'cos once US washes its hands off Israel, then it most definitely will face retribution for the persecution Israel put the palestinians through over the last 60 yrs, i.e. cos Israel knows it has blood on its hands...been there for years..
There is only one place in the world where genocide,apartheid, illegal occupation and settlements are considered self-defense. Israel. They refuse to even define their
borders so they can keep expanding them to eventually include all lands between the two great rivers. Why do we Americans forfeit our tax dollars to a prosperous nation that recieves more U.S. aid than any TWO third world nations combined?!
What Scheuer said about cutting off diplomatic relations with Israel, about not caring about what happens to/in Israel, was the most callous thing uttered during the entire debate. He then issued a similar statement against Palestinians, as if in the name of fairness. But to anyone who truly believes in fairness and moral clarity, this should only worsen his image.
It's amazing that evidenced by the overwhelming vote for getting tough with Israel, that people in the U.S. are fed up with Israel. Granted that these are educated people and the general population in the U.S. are fairly ignorant on just about everything except who's banging some hollywood babe. I guess we can hope.
Good debate. When reading about Dershowitz he always does the same thing he does here. Accuses anyone who don't share his same views of Israel as being anti-semitic. He's like Mory from the TV show Seinfield. Nothing more than a joke really. Scheuer won because 80% of Americans don't give two shits about Israel. Americans care about America just as they should and don't want to spend our money and take hits like we did on 911 for a country we simply don't care about.
I was at this debate on whether America should get tough on Israel. I had no doubt on how the vote would turn out as 25% of the audience were not American at all but rather from Islamic countries. I mean, they were at Georgetown which takes in big Arab dollars. Not a sermon, just a thought.
Israel is tighting th nuece around its neck, and its only a matter of time before it will destroy it self. The first time it was a Bablyonian army, the second time it was a Roman army and after the Roman army destoyed them and through them out of the land Allah S.W.A said if they return with there facade Allah will retrurn with his punishment. It i obvious they have returend with there facade, its happening now before our eyes, and so Allah is now going to return to them with his punishment.
one of the better debates i've seen. I'm in favor of the U.S. becoming more sophisticated with it's ways in dealing w/ the Mid East in general. Setting up conditions for both sides is important for the U.S. to do especially w/ re: to no new settlements by Israel. To just allow Israel to do as it pleases to that region has definite national security repercussion's for the U.S. it is essential we hold them accountable for unwise moves that could harm our troops abroad in that region i.e., Iraq.
@brabon1 i suggest you do a little more research.before you trivivialise the settlements by saying they are just adding apartments is false . research howmany acres of occupied land Israel has increased their already illegal settlements. if you like i can site reputable sources for you.
@untomatchi There is not a single person fighting against the American troops in Iraq, Afghanistan or the insurgents from Iran that are fighting because of the conflict between Arabs and Israelis. They could not give a damn about the Palestinians.
@noiz001 that's just plain silliness what you've said, 'not one single person fighting against american troops in Iraq, Afghanistan or as you say 'insurgent's' from Iran that are fighting because of the conflict between Arab's and israeli's!?'. Gen. Patraeus about a month ago or so said it himself that a large part of anti american sentiment in that part of the world has largely to do with our unconditional support for israel so when israel pummels Lebanon n Gaza w/o remorse, U.S. will suffer 2.
@untomatchi I do not buy it. After 8 years of fighting, tens of thousands of people killed, hundreds of attacks by muslim against muslims, hundreds of captured combatants and leaders of Al Qaeda. Not one president, not one member of congress, not one person on any congressial committee had mentioned the Palestian problem as contributing to our troops getting hurt. One general who later back away from what he said.
@noiz001 ".. we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed - when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the US sixth fleet." - Osama Bin Laden
The Guardian, 30 October 2004
I could go on with examples and it's been much longer than 8 yrs and there has been much more live's spent on israel's behalf!
@untomatchi That is just pandering to the rest of the Arab world looking for support. I believe his real issue was with the US military bases in Saudi Arabia. You know the infidels in an Islamic land.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Dershowitz is a super intelligent person. The ex CIA person is a tool. What an idiot. I would have liked to have seen the votes before the motion and compared to after the motion. AND the religious makeup of the audience. 37% suggests that alot of non jewish people voted against, considering that Jews only account for %2.8 of the US. EAT THAT.
Hello, it would make sense. It is a solid ground of hot debate, with preconcieved ideas. i.e. a premise that the US should be tough on Israel. Thus, would've liked to see the vote before and after the motion. Don't be naieve, I certainly wasn't born yesterday.
Israel is tighting th nuece around its neck, and its only a matter of time before it will destroy it self. The first time it was a Bablyonian army, the second time it was a Roman army and after the Roman army destoyed them and through them out of the land Allah S.W.A said if they return with there facade Allah will retrurn with his punishment. It i obvious they have returend with there facade, its happening now before our eyes, and so Allah is now going to return to them with his punishment.
the jewish bank families i.e rothschild and the secret societies control American and Israel! If you live in a country where your government is anti isreal, be warned , either u will have a new pro government or you will be invaded!
The Osirak Operation that started an Iraqi nuclear weapons program that the Israeli bombing supposedly delayed? There was no weapons development at the Osirak factory, when Israel bombed it, Saddam decided to pursue nuclear weapons in earnest. The documentary record proves it, I can provide sources, if you want.
To America and Arabs it's a beggars wound, as long as there is conflict it can be influential in the two largest businesses - OIL & WEAPONS in the Middle East. AS long as there is conflict Arab leaders dont have to worry about the threat of DEMOCRACY.
Yeah guess what the Palistanians and the Arabs don't lie and steal and don't dystroy and don't threaten world security. Israel does all those things and if you have been to gaza as I have you would understand my not very good analysis/ rant its just my feeling as a jew.
The US should get tough on on the Palestinian Authority and Hamas and neighboring Arab governments Every penny in aid should be accounted for and they should be forced to return to the bargaining table. Hamas has never wanted to negotiate and the PA currently refuses to. Palestinians deserve better than political posturing.
If America Cuts Military aid from Israel it will lose its power of veto or the power of preventing from Israel to sell technology to Russia or China. As it use its veto power in the past. America needs to support Israel very much so. Its in its best interest! Whats the alternative? Supporting Iran? I never heard so much rubbish from so many educated people in such sort time!
The fact that the second biggest party in government is an openly racist party.
Settlements - which are illegal according to international law.
Israel now is a powerful nation with a capable navy, air force, army, and intelligence services. so there is no more moral or legal obligation on any other country in the world to help it than what a normal alliance agreement would decree.
The realist school of foreign policy argues that states seek to maximize their power, rather than pursue moral aims. So your first 5 claims can be taken off the table immediately despite the fact that they are generally untrue, frought with bias, lack context and are intended to misinform.
I don't I understand why you need to make this personal. no need for such language.
Well you see I thought the US was getting in the habit of moralising to the rest of the world ( China, Russia, Iran... etc.)
as for maximising her power the US in fact loses standing in regions where she needs to make every bit of influence count, while Europe gains power as they seem a little more measured in their stance towards Israel.
In addition, if you did actually believe that my points are "generally untrue, fraught with bias, lack context and are intended to misinform" you would not have engaged the tenuous arguments of the so called Realpolitik.
@ImTehWord. no i won't be commenting on an issue titled tough on America because no one CAN be tough on the US, since it is the only superpower. but you are right the US, China, and Russia commit a lot of the things Isreal does, the difference is no one is aiding any of these countries annually by giving them huge amounts of money obviously because they don't really need it from anyone.
@ImTehWord So the question is does the US aid Isreal for a strategic purpose if yes then that's for Americans to worry about (but clearly it's not helping American interests), if however the US is compelled for some reason or other then obviously things need to change.
Plus why is a critcism of Isreal called bashing, saying China doesn't respect Tibetan's rights isn't really China bashing is it? it would be bashing if I was just denigrating Isreal or Isrealis, which I'm not.
@ELYASELYAS israel is an ally for strategic purpose, as its a live feedback of how us weaponry fights against russian/chinese weaponry without the us having to do anything (unfortunately :\)
because usually critism of israel is pure bullshit, i dont have problem with real criticism, which i have too.
i dont know enough about china and tibet so i cant comment about that.
@ImTehWord you've just entered the real of the ridiculous. Do you really really believe that your argument is a basis for the foreign policy of the most powerful nation on earth? Do you really really think if the US wishes to test its power against the two other biggest armies, it would do so by getting the fourth biggest army to fight guerrillas with small arms? If the US is right and Iran supplies Iraqi insurgents with weaponry then the US are testing their own weapons.
@ELYASELYAS - the twenty year trend is to label any criticism of Israel as coming from an antisemite. Pro-Israeli's just don't want to hear it. If Israel sent a nuke to Iran they want to hear praise for it. It's a successful censorship of speech. It's worked for decades and has enabled Israel to commit horrible atrocities.
If we analyze history today at this very point, then creation of israel on a land stolen from others was a huge mistake and is the cause of almost all of the violence occurring in our world today..
If you really think that Israel is to blame for "all of the violence occurring in our world today" you simply have no concept of global politics. Doing a quick run through of the most violent places might help. The violence in the most violent regions in the world (Africa, Asia and South America) have absolutely unequivocally nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. They have domestic issues that cause their violence, not some tiny strip of land causing their problems from millions of miles away.
@anarchylogic I guess you feel better about the 7.5 billion dollars to Pakistan over the next five years. At least when you give to Israel you get something back, most of the money is spent buting U.S. products.
@noiz001 Negitive, I would rather America stop giving ALL aid to all countries. America has a lot of problems right now not the least of which is that we're broke. I'm talking about the money that none of us have right now to keep giving away to ANY foreign interest when our own country is having a tough time. Be it Israel or Pakistan, or anywhere. America is facing bankruptcy right now right behind Greese. We are suppose to give from abundance, but we have no abundance right now.
@noiz001 Yes, we feel the same way about Pakistan. Scheuer makes that clear. We basically just need to leave Israel alone. It has nukes which it can use to defend itself if so be. If it can't survive without life support with the U.S. then too bad so sad. There is a reason why Church and State need to be kept seperate. Apparently Israelis and Muslims aren't sophisticated enough to know why.
Avraham Burg was the only one making worthwhile points. Scheuer came across as irrational with his mublings of the "5th column", Dore Gold was more interested in peddling his anti-Iranian Likud agenda and Dershowitz turned up with his usual set of tedious talking points that he turns up to every debate with.
Scheuer has the only view that makes any sense, that is consistent with making the USA safer and is, by the way, the only view that is consistent with the US Constitution.
@magybaby Sad, isn't it? That girl couldn't even grasp the meaning behind being tough on them, that he meant to stop doing things FOR them, not to start doing things TO them. Such is the silliness that pervades ones brain after jumping onto the lsraeI Firster' bandwagon. That's a passive/aggressive 5th Column mindset, right there.
AbsitReverentiaVero 1 month ago
This debate is almost 2 1/2 years old. Today we can see how Israelis managed with their manipulations and strong lobbies in US, to bring ME on its knees and the world, on the brink of a 3rd world war. i never thought that i would ever dare to think of the following words but these hypocrite people are trouble makers, liars and have been a pain in the neck for too long. Their history is marked with 2 major dates; 597 BC and 70 AD. i hope 2012 will be the final one, unless they make amendment.
magygaby 2 months ago
Comment removed
zeroceiling 4 months ago
What we see here is an argument between Jews. It's a shame Edward Said passed away - he was extremely well-informed.
CordialElderflower 5 months ago
The people of Israel have been through lots of afflictions to know what they have to do to stay alive. The marjority who stays in the comfort of their own country may not know because they have not experience what the Jews have been through.
TTTan1 6 months ago
Dershowitz is the man
drskid613 6 months ago
They should take a vote before and after, not just after.
TomWardMusic 8 months ago
so the audiance had 37% Jewish people in it, very interesting indeed!
Allanlegacy43 9 months ago 3
@Allanlegacy43 - Indeed that seems a lot.
jjvanka 2 months ago
I support the end of ALL military aid.
callmetricia 10 months ago 7
We should leave Israel to its' own devices...that American tax payers unfortunately paid for.
calmingspeed 10 months ago
@calmingspeed and that your the first to get dibs on
BennyBigPants2490 10 months ago
You americans have to get tough on Israel - and we Iranians have to get tough on USA + Israel
ProAhmadinejad 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
we need to get tough on muslims
cyklonb1989 1 year ago
@cyklonb1989
'We' being...
jjvanka 1 year ago
@jjvanka infidels like me
cyklonb1989 1 year ago
@cyklonb1989
No need for that then -- religious people are already getting tough on themselves.
jjvanka 1 year ago 6
@jjvanka
No we need to be tough on Israel and muslims as a whole. The whole region is struggling to find its identity and much of history is being covered up or being distorted by false governments and radicals. We need to be tough on muslims to and never deny any justification in that
Reido2828 2 months ago
@Reido2828 - Someone should be tough on us, for the same reasons.
jjvanka 2 months ago
@jjvanka
Agreed but the left and the right in this country haven't a clue anymore. We need new politicians
Reido2828 2 months ago
@cyklonb1989 and what do they have to do with the American support for Israel? Pitiful fool.
canadaguy666 1 year ago
@cyklonb1989 Well...
We are getting tough on your soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the world.
From Taliban with regards.
hatimsa 1 year ago
@cyklonb1989
what you've done in Iraq and Afghanistan is not enough for u?
r9i9a9p3 9 months ago
@r9i9a9p3 not even close. But thankfully we can always rely on the Muslims to do the killing.
cyklonb1989 8 months ago
Alan is very good orator with sound knowledge. He has shown to the candian girl probably in love with muslim that Isarel has nothing to do with Iraq and Bush had a war because US want to be Super power no 1 otherwise saddam wants oil to be sold in Euro and stop the involvement of america. If it so automatically after 5 to 10 europe will become stronger than north america. Saddam asking Russia to involve in Middle east so Super power will be Russia. Bush has done all things to keep america No 1
shrik2003 1 year ago
One of the worst scholarly debates I have ever watched. Can't believe noone on the panel or an audience member discussed Israel's violation of international law, specifically the 4th Geneva Convention. Or Israel's herendous human rights record as reported by B'Tselem, Amnesty Int'l and Human Rights Watch.
tcbuzz 1 year ago
@tcbuzz Human rights violations? Or you mean Terrorist Rights violations?
sugarhitman 1 year ago
@sugarhitman Human rights violations. When israel bombs innocents and kills thousands of children and women thats self defence? But People who have been SUBJUGATED and OPRESSED, KICKED OUT of their own lands, when they stand up and fight for this terrorist state to fall, THATS TERRORISM?
Who are the real terrorists? People who have no concern for human rights or people who are subjugated and act in self defence
muslimgiga 1 year ago
@muslimgiga *yawn*..As always the usual false presentation of the Palestinians as "innocent". Palestinian civilians only die because their leaders use them as human shields while firing their Grand rockets into Israel..somehow this fact always escapes the pro-Pale Narrators...and everybody knows the Muslims stole the land of Judea from the Jews..just like they have stolen lands in Africa and elsewhere..the bloody thieves.
sugarhitman 1 year ago 2
@muslimgiga its mainly based on how the so called terrorist tactics are used. israel bombs strategic targets using surgical strikes (the casualties should be much higher but apparently israel does a good job keeping them low). hamas shoots rockets indiscriminately on unarmed civilians. hamas hides behind their civilians and thus causes the casualties on the palestinian side. so hamas are the terrorists (i am not including palestinians as terrorists)
BennyBigPants2490 10 months ago
@BennyBigPants2490 Depends on where your getting your info from bro... Last time i checked Hamas's rockets kills about the same people in 1000000 years than israel air strikes kill in a day. :D
muslimgiga 10 months ago
@muslimgiga just because hamas' rockets dont kill as many people as israel's military strikes do does not lessen their criminality. you cant use that type of argument dude.
BennyBigPants2490 10 months ago
@BennyBigPants2490 One is an aggressor another is a defender. I don't justify Hamas's methods and reject Israel's even more but if my country got invaded by jews bent on systematically murdering my people, i would do crazy stuff too.
Oppressors vs the oppressed you call it Freedom vs Terrorists. iyho
muslimgiga 10 months ago
@muslimgiga but there is no systematic murder. dont exaggerate such extremeties. believe me it could be ALOT worse but it isnt. why would israel hold back if it cares nothing for the palestinians? if it were a true terrorist state the palestinians would not exist. you have to understand both sides. and given the history of israels creation, the aggressor too were the surrounding arab nations who significantly displaced the palestinians as well through their own provocation
BennyBigPants2490 10 months ago
@BennyBigPants2490 again... biased popular media. have you even seen what a palastinian living gaza looks like? if israel commits a genocide then the world court would look like hypocrites and there would be an outrage from almost every country. Palestine DOESN"T exist on the map. Because few groups like HAMAS knock at people's conscience is why it's still an issue. You call being EMBARGOED and living in huts living? To you they are an academic interest to me i see a crisis.
muslimgiga 10 months ago 2
@BennyBigPants2490 Yes there is systematic murder. In the 1006 war in Lebanon Israel killed more than 1,200 Lebanese. 1000 of which were civilians And as NGOs found the resort to war crimes by Israeli military forces was widespread instead of just 1-2 air-units.
Redcarpet01 4 months ago
if you supports "tough on israel" press (1)
if you DONT support "being tough" on israel press (2)
(1)
orhun20 1 year ago
an old joke:
oldjew1: israel should go 2 war with the US.
oldjew2: why the hell should they do th@?!
oldjew1: bcuz they'll destroy us & then send millions of money & aid to help rebuild us. we'll be such an advanced and modern part of society.
oldjew2: ok fair enough.... but w@ if we win?
BeatOutsideTheBox1 1 year ago
Alan Dershowitz must've been the most annoying kid at school, back in schooldays.
hassanibnali 1 year ago
Bottomline is Israel is scared of any reduction in the US aid it gets, 'cos once US washes its hands off Israel, then it most definitely will face retribution for the persecution Israel put the palestinians through over the last 60 yrs, i.e. cos Israel knows it has blood on its hands...been there for years..
hassanibnali 1 year ago
There is only one place in the world where genocide,apartheid, illegal occupation and settlements are considered self-defense. Israel. They refuse to even define their
borders so they can keep expanding them to eventually include all lands between the two great rivers. Why do we Americans forfeit our tax dollars to a prosperous nation that recieves more U.S. aid than any TWO third world nations combined?!
Is Israel blackmailing America? Google it...
klscott5 1 year ago
G-D bless Israel - such a wonderful place
lessthansion 1 year ago
i know it may be technically off the topic, but never once did anyone even say the word "occupation"
redrajani 1 year ago
I wonder what color our skin we will be four-thousand years from now.
R0WR0WR0W 1 year ago
If USA cuts it's ties with Israel, Israel will piss it's pantz :-). Oh yh and that bold dude soundz like arnie
bronco200005 1 year ago
@bronco200005 not really, Mr Berg has a heavy israeli accent and arnie has a dead set austrian accent
BeatOutsideTheBox1 1 year ago
What Scheuer said about cutting off diplomatic relations with Israel, about not caring about what happens to/in Israel, was the most callous thing uttered during the entire debate. He then issued a similar statement against Palestinians, as if in the name of fairness. But to anyone who truly believes in fairness and moral clarity, this should only worsen his image.
TFI2010gmail 1 year ago
Cut military aid to Israel!!!!!!!
thegreatshah90 1 year ago
It's amazing that evidenced by the overwhelming vote for getting tough with Israel, that people in the U.S. are fed up with Israel. Granted that these are educated people and the general population in the U.S. are fairly ignorant on just about everything except who's banging some hollywood babe. I guess we can hope.
JohnnyRock2000 1 year ago
dershowitz is a scumbag, blowhard
k1a1t1h1y1 1 year ago
Good debate. When reading about Dershowitz he always does the same thing he does here. Accuses anyone who don't share his same views of Israel as being anti-semitic. He's like Mory from the TV show Seinfield. Nothing more than a joke really. Scheuer won because 80% of Americans don't give two shits about Israel. Americans care about America just as they should and don't want to spend our money and take hits like we did on 911 for a country we simply don't care about.
jizzmonger 1 year ago
I was at this debate on whether America should get tough on Israel. I had no doubt on how the vote would turn out as 25% of the audience were not American at all but rather from Islamic countries. I mean, they were at Georgetown which takes in big Arab dollars. Not a sermon, just a thought.
noiz001 1 year ago 2
good host, i must say...
doglin82 1 year ago
Israel is an Apartheid State..
nilo723 1 year ago
The first kid is seriously wrong in the head. No country has the right to go and impose a political system of his liking, not even if is democracy.
recabarrennahuel 1 year ago
When are we going to inspect Israel's nuclear arsenal?
MendingMedia 1 year ago 30
@MendingMedia
It probably has none.
jjvanka 1 year ago
@jjvanka israel has a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons that by the way wont let un inspect their facilities either
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@jjvanka
Thanks you so much for posting this video. More healthy debates on the subject need to happen. No nation is should be above criticism
genx1973 1 year ago
@jjvanka
willing to bet on that? :P I would.
Donzq8 1 year ago
@jjvanka Israel probably have nore but Iran positively wants some. See how brainwashed you are.
MendingMedia 1 year ago
@MendingMedia not untill israel tests it :))
orhun20 1 year ago
@orhun20 Like wipes Iran of the face of the map?
MendingMedia 1 year ago
@MendingMedia no need too. israel is not a threat to the world
BennyBigPants2490 10 months ago
Israel is tighting th nuece around its neck, and its only a matter of time before it will destroy it self. The first time it was a Bablyonian army, the second time it was a Roman army and after the Roman army destoyed them and through them out of the land Allah S.W.A said if they return with there facade Allah will retrurn with his punishment. It i obvious they have returend with there facade, its happening now before our eyes, and so Allah is now going to return to them with his punishment.
sudan15 1 year ago
yada, yada, yada
the arabs are too busy banging mutah wives and camels to attack israel
brabon1 1 year ago
@brabon1
If you don't like the neighborhood, don't move in.
jjvanka 1 year ago
@brabon1 your an asshole
k1a1t1h1y1 1 year ago
one of the better debates i've seen. I'm in favor of the U.S. becoming more sophisticated with it's ways in dealing w/ the Mid East in general. Setting up conditions for both sides is important for the U.S. to do especially w/ re: to no new settlements by Israel. To just allow Israel to do as it pleases to that region has definite national security repercussion's for the U.S. it is essential we hold them accountable for unwise moves that could harm our troops abroad in that region i.e., Iraq.
untomatchi 1 year ago
there havent been new settlements built in years
adding apts to already existing complexes is not new settlement building
brabon1 1 year ago
@brabon1
Word games. Every construction in, next to, underneath or upon is a settlement as such. ;-)
jjvanka 1 year ago
@brabon1 i suggest you do a little more research.before you trivivialise the settlements by saying they are just adding apartments is false . research howmany acres of occupied land Israel has increased their already illegal settlements. if you like i can site reputable sources for you.
maxfedor1 1 year ago
@untomatchi There is not a single person fighting against the American troops in Iraq, Afghanistan or the insurgents from Iran that are fighting because of the conflict between Arabs and Israelis. They could not give a damn about the Palestinians.
noiz001 1 year ago
@noiz001 that's just plain silliness what you've said, 'not one single person fighting against american troops in Iraq, Afghanistan or as you say 'insurgent's' from Iran that are fighting because of the conflict between Arab's and israeli's!?'. Gen. Patraeus about a month ago or so said it himself that a large part of anti american sentiment in that part of the world has largely to do with our unconditional support for israel so when israel pummels Lebanon n Gaza w/o remorse, U.S. will suffer 2.
untomatchi 1 year ago
@untomatchi I do not buy it. After 8 years of fighting, tens of thousands of people killed, hundreds of attacks by muslim against muslims, hundreds of captured combatants and leaders of Al Qaeda. Not one president, not one member of congress, not one person on any congressial committee had mentioned the Palestian problem as contributing to our troops getting hurt. One general who later back away from what he said.
noiz001 1 year ago
@noiz001 ".. we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed - when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the US sixth fleet." - Osama Bin Laden
The Guardian, 30 October 2004
I could go on with examples and it's been much longer than 8 yrs and there has been much more live's spent on israel's behalf!
untomatchi 1 year ago
@untomatchi That is just pandering to the rest of the Arab world looking for support. I believe his real issue was with the US military bases in Saudi Arabia. You know the infidels in an Islamic land.
noiz001 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dershowitz is a super intelligent person. The ex CIA person is a tool. What an idiot. I would have liked to have seen the votes before the motion and compared to after the motion. AND the religious makeup of the audience. 37% suggests that alot of non jewish people voted against, considering that Jews only account for %2.8 of the US. EAT THAT.
eddied111 2 years ago
"...the votes before the motion..."
Would've made sense (not). (-:
jjvanka 2 years ago
@jjvanka
Hello, it would make sense. It is a solid ground of hot debate, with preconcieved ideas. i.e. a premise that the US should be tough on Israel. Thus, would've liked to see the vote before and after the motion. Don't be naieve, I certainly wasn't born yesterday.
eddied111 2 years ago
Israel is tighting th nuece around its neck, and its only a matter of time before it will destroy it self. The first time it was a Bablyonian army, the second time it was a Roman army and after the Roman army destoyed them and through them out of the land Allah S.W.A said if they return with there facade Allah will retrurn with his punishment. It i obvious they have returend with there facade, its happening now before our eyes, and so Allah is now going to return to them with his punishment.
sudan15 1 year ago
the jewish bank families i.e rothschild and the secret societies control American and Israel! If you live in a country where your government is anti isreal, be warned , either u will have a new pro government or you will be invaded!
mrantidajjal1 2 years ago 2
Wow, I didn't expect a vote for the motion within the United States ! Makes me proud that people are thinking for themselves :)
eternallord 2 years ago 3
@eternallord its in Qatar
GoCardinal2012 1 year ago
Give Palestine a chance to develop an economy and stop financing Israel. This will force Israel to grow up and take itself serious.
jjvanka 2 years ago
Scheuer is a mental midget.
the US doesnt need Israel???
how bout IT, Biotech, Green technology, military technology.
is this guy fuckin serious. you stop supporting Israel, you lose a very very valuable economic partner.
DeepHauz 2 years ago
Sheuer needs to remember the 1981 Osirak operation.
Israel has acted alone and not at the behest of the US, and has been successful.
the US will not be Israel's parent.
DeepHauz 2 years ago
The Osirak Operation that started an Iraqi nuclear weapons program that the Israeli bombing supposedly delayed? There was no weapons development at the Osirak factory, when Israel bombed it, Saddam decided to pursue nuclear weapons in earnest. The documentary record proves it, I can provide sources, if you want.
phooey108 2 years ago 3
Dershowitz is such an ass. Can't he shut up when he's not been called?
kakompo 2 years ago 10
To make Dershowitz shut up Finkelstein should be made to sit in front of him, then you'll see only confused smirks on his face.
astronomer86 2 years ago 4
To America and Arabs it's a beggars wound, as long as there is conflict it can be influential in the two largest businesses - OIL & WEAPONS in the Middle East. AS long as there is conflict Arab leaders dont have to worry about the threat of DEMOCRACY.
muradfahmy1965 2 years ago
Yeah guess what the Palistanians and the Arabs don't lie and steal and don't dystroy and don't threaten world security. Israel does all those things and if you have been to gaza as I have you would understand my not very good analysis/ rant its just my feeling as a jew.
meleszenawi1111 2 years ago
The US should get tough on on the Palestinian Authority and Hamas and neighboring Arab governments Every penny in aid should be accounted for and they should be forced to return to the bargaining table. Hamas has never wanted to negotiate and the PA currently refuses to. Palestinians deserve better than political posturing.
eclecticCircus2 2 years ago
Tough on the Palestinians? No leverage. These people have nothing except their lives in misery and putting them under pressure is irrelevant.
jjvanka 2 years ago
Why hasn't Israel signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreeement?
Israel is a terrorist state and has no right to exist.
jimj122680 2 years ago 5
If America Cuts Military aid from Israel it will lose its power of veto or the power of preventing from Israel to sell technology to Russia or China. As it use its veto power in the past. America needs to support Israel very much so. Its in its best interest! Whats the alternative? Supporting Iran? I never heard so much rubbish from so many educated people in such sort time!
TrialGraphics 2 years ago
israel selling it's technology to russia and china?
strongbadassman 2 years ago
I've just read Avraham Burg's book, it's a remakably interesting book an certainly derseves attention.
prierias 2 years ago 4
I agree 100% - the book is a real eye-opener.
basselyrique 2 years ago 2
once the facts are analysed and thoughtfully considered most people would agree with this motion.
ELYASELYAS 2 years ago 5
Here's your chance, tell us all the ''facts'' which support getting tough on Israel...
Bevan30000 2 years ago
Defiance of United Nations resolutions.
Disproportionate use of violence.
Israel regularly breaches Human rights.
The fact that the second biggest party in government is an openly racist party.
Settlements - which are illegal according to international law.
Israel now is a powerful nation with a capable navy, air force, army, and intelligence services. so there is no more moral or legal obligation on any other country in the world to help it than what a normal alliance agreement would decree.
ELYASELYAS 2 years ago 7
Ok this is where you're full of shit...
The realist school of foreign policy argues that states seek to maximize their power, rather than pursue moral aims. So your first 5 claims can be taken off the table immediately despite the fact that they are generally untrue, frought with bias, lack context and are intended to misinform.
Bevan30000 2 years ago
I don't I understand why you need to make this personal. no need for such language.
Well you see I thought the US was getting in the habit of moralising to the rest of the world ( China, Russia, Iran... etc.)
as for maximising her power the US in fact loses standing in regions where she needs to make every bit of influence count, while Europe gains power as they seem a little more measured in their stance towards Israel.
ELYASELYAS 2 years ago 3
Bevan, please stick to the facts (if you can).
jjvanka 2 years ago
You only know them as facts because you've been told them by propagandists. You have no certainty of your beliefs.
Bevan30000 2 years ago
In addition, if you did actually believe that my points are "generally untrue, fraught with bias, lack context and are intended to misinform" you would not have engaged the tenuous arguments of the so called Realpolitik.
ELYASELYAS 2 years ago
Yeah, you're right. Youtube is a place mainly for soundbites rather than rigorous debates.
I've never tried Realpolitik, instead I read books, they're atleast semi-accountable. Reading the Israel Lobby right now.
Bevan30000 2 years ago 3
@ELYASELYAS every single thing you said can be said about the USA.
btw, israel might have a strong army, but its navy is poor.
ImTehWord 1 year ago
@ImTehWord i'm not sure what's your point but once a state acquires nuclear capability it doesn't really matter what its weaknesses are.
ELYASELYAS 1 year ago
@ELYASELYAS i regarded to your post where you bashed israel.
i said that everything except for the settlements could be said about america aswell, and you didnt seem to bash them.
ImTehWord 1 year ago
@ImTehWord
He probably will commenting a future issue titled 'Tough on America'.
;-)
jjvanka 1 year ago
@ImTehWord. no i won't be commenting on an issue titled tough on America because no one CAN be tough on the US, since it is the only superpower. but you are right the US, China, and Russia commit a lot of the things Isreal does, the difference is no one is aiding any of these countries annually by giving them huge amounts of money obviously because they don't really need it from anyone.
ELYASELYAS 1 year ago
@ImTehWord So the question is does the US aid Isreal for a strategic purpose if yes then that's for Americans to worry about (but clearly it's not helping American interests), if however the US is compelled for some reason or other then obviously things need to change.
Plus why is a critcism of Isreal called bashing, saying China doesn't respect Tibetan's rights isn't really China bashing is it? it would be bashing if I was just denigrating Isreal or Isrealis, which I'm not.
ELYASELYAS 1 year ago
@ELYASELYAS israel is an ally for strategic purpose, as its a live feedback of how us weaponry fights against russian/chinese weaponry without the us having to do anything (unfortunately :\)
because usually critism of israel is pure bullshit, i dont have problem with real criticism, which i have too.
i dont know enough about china and tibet so i cant comment about that.
ImTehWord 1 year ago
@ImTehWord How is the US getting feedback on weapons against Russia and China by supporting Isreal?
ELYASELYAS 1 year ago
@ELYASELYAS usa sells israel weapons.
russia/china sells iran weapons.
iran gives/sells weapons to syria, hizbullah, hamas.
when israel fights hizbullah and hamas, it uses american weapons against russian/chinese weapons.
ImTehWord 1 year ago
@ImTehWord you've just entered the real of the ridiculous. Do you really really believe that your argument is a basis for the foreign policy of the most powerful nation on earth? Do you really really think if the US wishes to test its power against the two other biggest armies, it would do so by getting the fourth biggest army to fight guerrillas with small arms? If the US is right and Iran supplies Iraqi insurgents with weaponry then the US are testing their own weapons.
ELYASELYAS 1 year ago
@ELYASELYAS it depends.
that policy began in the 70s, cold war era.
that was when israel fought egypt, syria, jordan, lebanon etc while the usa had no wars.
they had to test their weapons against soviet weapons, and the other way around.
israel, which was constantly attacked by arabs, proved to be a great proxy and living test.
i dont know why they keep supplying israel today, its a strategic ally i guess, superpowers always need strategic allies.
ImTehWord 1 year ago
@ELYASELYAS - the twenty year trend is to label any criticism of Israel as coming from an antisemite. Pro-Israeli's just don't want to hear it. If Israel sent a nuke to Iran they want to hear praise for it. It's a successful censorship of speech. It's worked for decades and has enabled Israel to commit horrible atrocities.
JohnnyRock2000 1 year ago
If we analyze history today at this very point, then creation of israel on a land stolen from others was a huge mistake and is the cause of almost all of the violence occurring in our world today..
nilo723 2 years ago 3
If you really think that Israel is to blame for "all of the violence occurring in our world today" you simply have no concept of global politics. Doing a quick run through of the most violent places might help. The violence in the most violent regions in the world (Africa, Asia and South America) have absolutely unequivocally nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. They have domestic issues that cause their violence, not some tiny strip of land causing their problems from millions of miles away.
InspectionChief 2 years ago
Avraham Burg is just brilliant, honestly...
trance2307 2 years ago 4
Why is it anti-semetic to not want to get the shit taxed out of me to pay for any of this?
Because I want to keep me own fucking money that I earned I'm biggited?
Isreal can stand on its own.
anarchylogic 2 years ago 11
@anarchylogic I guess you feel better about the 7.5 billion dollars to Pakistan over the next five years. At least when you give to Israel you get something back, most of the money is spent buting U.S. products.
noiz001 1 year ago
@noiz001 Negitive, I would rather America stop giving ALL aid to all countries. America has a lot of problems right now not the least of which is that we're broke. I'm talking about the money that none of us have right now to keep giving away to ANY foreign interest when our own country is having a tough time. Be it Israel or Pakistan, or anywhere. America is facing bankruptcy right now right behind Greese. We are suppose to give from abundance, but we have no abundance right now.
anarchylogic 1 year ago
@noiz001 Yes, we feel the same way about Pakistan. Scheuer makes that clear. We basically just need to leave Israel alone. It has nukes which it can use to defend itself if so be. If it can't survive without life support with the U.S. then too bad so sad. There is a reason why Church and State need to be kept seperate. Apparently Israelis and Muslims aren't sophisticated enough to know why.
jizzmonger 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
His fifth column talk makes Scheuer sound like a bigot.
1kkyu 2 years ago
antisemitism is a cop out by fools that refuse to think
themange59 2 years ago 9
Avraham Burg was the only one making worthwhile points. Scheuer came across as irrational with his mublings of the "5th column", Dore Gold was more interested in peddling his anti-Iranian Likud agenda and Dershowitz turned up with his usual set of tedious talking points that he turns up to every debate with.
Capuchin 2 years ago 8
yes all countries should cut diplomatic ties with the terrorist state of israel.
chronusvoldemort 2 years ago 19
Scheuer has the only view that makes any sense, that is consistent with making the USA safer and is, by the way, the only view that is consistent with the US Constitution.
seanannapolis 2 years ago 24