@Jacobitejim no sorry man he wasnt a republican and that wil offend many english republicans....he was a tyrannical dictator....THE REAL republicans were called the levellers and they were locked up and kept silent by crmwell and his new elite.........I am sorry oliver cromwell was only a replican as a tool to become an emperor in all but name.
Him banning football or christmas is not a result of having a "republic" (which its wasnt)....USA hasnt banned christmas
@3tangle3 - He certainly WAS a republican. The Levellers were early communists. You forget - Cromwell orchestrated the murder of King Charles I. On his tomb is inscribed "No king but Christ". The 1798 rebels, the IRB, the IRA, the Fenians and even the Parnellites took inspiration from Cromwell's republicanism. Stalin was a republican but he, too, acted as a one-man tyrant. Modern republicanism derives from Calvinism. The USA certainly banned alcohol. Never heard of "Prohibition"?
@Jacobitejim i wasnt saying the US is perfect....but why is a monarchy supposedly ordained by God better than an independently elected president??...cromwell was not a republic as there was no universal suffrage fair play.............new zealand was first to grant universal suffrage
@3tangle3 - A republic is a republic, whether democratic or not, and so was Cromwell's. Do you think the US presidential (or any presidential) election is "independent". Really? Well, it's a point of view, I guess! Personally, I think that even the Stewart monarchs were far more answerable to the people than any US President. God certainly say a lot about kings - Judah, the Lion's whelp and all that - but government can take many forms e.g. the Florentine and Venetian republics.
@Jacobitejim I beg to differ about it being a republic............labels are only as good as the people who use them and I personally dont count that as a republic
@3tangle3 - No - labels and language are a common cultural factor. They do not merely depend upon the person using them. One may call an apple a carrot but does that make it a carrot? No. You probably don't call Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia or Pol Pot's Cambodia republics, either. But that is what they were. What you perhaps mean is that they are not the kind of republic you would like. But perhaps your kind of republic simply does not exist? If so, where is it?
@Jacobitejim yeah i know the irish elite were probably just as much cunts although relatively irish and welsh law doesnt seem as brutal in some ways.........as a evolutionary biologist I am interested in the fact the first settlers had the most egalitarian society and the society today is the least egalitarian.......possibly due to obvious biggest bullies wins principle
" Proud Republican" you may be but you are no Catholic if you defend murder by saying "war is hell". You forget that the Catholic bishops relentlessly condemned the Fenians and rebels and excommunicated them. It was Dermot MacMorrough, King of Leinster, who invited King Henry II to invade Ireland in 1171. The Pope authorised the invasion to stop Irishmen murdering each other. Now the Republic is bankrupt, political leaders hated and the Church reviled. Some freedom!
What an incredible voice!! Pure, crystal clear soprano! Just amaziing she was not more well known. I wonder if Joan Baez & Anne Byrne ever met each other in the 1960's?
@barcelona36 She and he were fairly popular in 60s..Ireland....early ballad revival days..don't know if they recorded ...LPs r 45s....would be rare I imagine.
@barcelona36 She and he were fairly popular in 60s..Ireland....early ballad revival days..don't know if they recorded ...LPs r 45s....would be rare I imagine. She had a nice voice ...may have been trained.
<< Proud Republican , Proud Catholic, Proud of the Freedom Fighters of Ireland!War is hell and there would be no war if the loving British army/government had simply stayed home and out of Ireland.
And let's not forget the cold-blooded murder of Denis Donaldson, former IRA and Sinn Fein, shot dead by the IRA at a cottage in Co Donegal. These brutal murders are the work of devils more disgusting than the most savage of animals.
@Jacobitejim And let's not forget Donaldson was a British informer who tried to sabotage the peace process. And let's remember how British Intelligence outed him and left him to spin in the wind. I wonder who killed him, the cops have not solved it. You certainly don't know.
@TrueNovice There was, and still is no nation more treacherous than England. Ask the Scots, the Welsh, the Indians, the Malaysians and the Russian POW (Victims of Yalta). Ireland has had some experience with them as well (Bloody Sunday to name one incident). The English write the history but eventually the truth comes out. Unfortunately the average Brit is not interested in the truth.
@FlovishRock the irish had to pretty fucking bad!....the welsh had it equally bad but earlier on in time so its more forgetten....dont forget poor cornish....which were genocided in 1497
@FlovishRock - Stalinist Russia? Nazi Germany? Pol Pot's government? No, the fact is that you are simply an anti-English racist and a disgrace to yourself and your countrymen. There have been millions and millions of good English people, like any country. The Maltese are Catholic and warmly friendly to England, wanting once to be part of England. You are also ignorant of both truth and history. There are few modern groups as treacherous, murderous and vile as Sinn Fein/IRA and the UDA/UDL.
And remember when three gutless creeps from the IRA shot Ross McWhirter in the face at his own front door when he had his own child in his arms. Then these cowardly scum ran away to do another disgraceful murder another day. Do you REALLY want to side with these animals? Really?
And this silly woman, Anne Byrne, wants to sing nice songs about the cowardly and gutless thugs who brutally slaughtered - and frequently tortured - those named below. Disgusting.
@Jacobitejim what about the irish prisoners who were tied up and burnt at the stake by english troops in the 1798 rebellion...you seem to be particularly picking on the irish to be fair
@3tangle3 - any burning done by government forces was done by native Irishmen since over 80% of the Yeomanry were native Irish Catholics! The rebels were mostly, like Tone, English Protestants turned revolutionaries.
Charles McIlmurry, Thomas Wilson, Eamonn Maguire, Francisco Notorantonio, Patrick Kelly, Patrick McKearney, Declan Arthurs, Seamus Donnelly, Eugene Kelly, Michael Gormley, Gerard OCallaghan, James Lynagh, Anthony McKiernan, Joseph Fenton, John McAnulty, Paddy Flood,Tom Oliver, Rory Finnis, Aidan Starrs, Gregory Burns, John Dignam, Robin Hill, Gerald Holmes, Christopher Harte, James Kelly, John Mulhern, Michael Brown, Caroline Moreland, and Joseph OConnor.
The IRA killed its own: Paul Valente, Maurice Gilvarry, Patrick Trainor, Vincent Robinson, Anthony Braniff, John Torbett, Seamus Morgan, Patrick Scott, James Young, Brian McNally, Kevin Coyle, John Corcoran, Séan OCallaghan, Catherine and Gerard Mahon, Damien McCrory, DJ, Patrick Murray, Frank Hegarty, David McVeigh (contd)
And don't forget all the people that the IRA killed of their own people whom they pretended were "informers". What rats, claiming to protect their own people whilst murdering them!
Probably the absolute pinnacle of hypocrisy must be for the IRA to complain about covert operations. Their whole murderous methods were covert! In fact, the IRA are in no position to complain about any tactics since theirs lacked every semblance of morality, legitimacy, decency, honesty or right. What appalling hypocrisy to complain, therefore!
The reality is that the whole "hate the Brits" thing has been a disaster throughout the whole Hibernian diaspora persuading whole generations of Irish boys to throw their lot in with Communists, Fascists, weirdos, no-goods, thugs and crims, the world over. Look at that fraud, Ted Kennedy. He would never have got anywhere but for the fact that he could always play the anti-Brit, nationalist card and so get votes in Boston.
Irish songs are brilliant - until they start to extol the killers. Anne Byrne should have sung the songs of peace - not war and hatred. Look what happened to Luke Kelly: he became a Communist in the end. Fat lot of good that did him or Ireland. Ronnie Drew never did and laughed at Luke's political views. He never fell for the myths, even though eh would occasionally sing rebel songs.
I would have been a Free Stater, too, so we agree on that. And I agree that the Civil War was madness. And obviously I agree that the Rejectionists are wrong. When will these clowns realise that the Irish and the British are not enemies and that the only real enemies are the terrorists. While the terrorists throw bombs ordinary English and Irish people have been marrying each other in large numbers for years!
You write: "many came out that process full of hate for outhers side harden men bent on one thing to fight back...." NO EXCUSE! Murder and hatred can NEVER be excused, whatever you have had to suffer yourself. End of story. All sides of the debate should have joined forces to work against the "hardened men" who are no more than vile criminal thugs. We should all - all sides - work together to get all the terrorists - Green, Orange or Red, White and Blue - imprisoned for a good long time.
Murder never achieved anything. Stop murder now! Cut the rebel songs that extol murder and hatred and sing the songs of peace and charity - there are pelnty of them! Give peace a chance, Malachy!
And why do nationalists hate the Queen? What has she ever done to Ireland? She did not become Queen until 3 years after the South was made a republic. As for government policy on NI, that is decided by elections, not the Queen. She has not the power to change policy. Her father and grandfather loved Ireland and hated the Tans and the Auxies as much as the IRA. Yet nationalists hate her - and them! Why? Go figure???? More bigotry!!!!!
Give up the hatred and murder and restore peace and charity. That is the only way. Chuck out the songs of war and replace them with songs of peace and friendship. Do not hate your brother. There is no peace in it - for the country or for oneself.
The historical fact is - like it or not - that the Irish before 1792 were Jacobites not Jacobins. They supported the Catholic kings and not the French republicans. Read O'Ciardha's book! They lost the Irish language and fell prey to stupid Anglo-Irish Protestant revolutionaries. THAT was the start of Irish republicanism! Anglo-Protestants started it! It was their idea! They were following Cromwell! Wake up and smell the truth.
And don't forget the words of "The Croppy Boy": "My aged father did me deny
And the name he gave me was the Croppy Boy". Why? Because his father, like almost all Irish Catholics of the time, opposed the 1798 rebellion as folly and stupidity. And 80% of the Yeomanry were irish Catholics. They did not approve rebellion! Don't forget it!
By the way, I totally agree that internment without trial was madness - Faulkner's folly and Ted Heath's, too. But most Brits thought the same, by the way! That was partly why Heath lost an election in 1974 - twice! Don't forget that King George V had been the initiator of peace talks after 1916 and hated the Black and Tans, particularly for brutalising what he still regarded as his subjects in Ireland. He considered them uniformed thugs and not soliders. Yet nationalists hate the monarch!
It is ridiculous for someone like you to complain about Prince Charles wearing uniform when you want to celebrate the ICA, the Volunteers, "Crossbarry" and rebels songs about murder. That just looks hypocritical. In any case, how can Charles avoid it? He is the future king and kings have to wear the uniforms of their servicemen. Irish generals do the same! You're just playing silly games.
Many related to those butchered by the IRA on Bloody Friday - or any other day - wouldn't see it that way either! Torsos and limbs everywhere, heads stuck to walls, vertebrae on the roof - imagine if that was YOUR nearest and dearest! Murder is no answer - EVER.
Having been interned is no justification for murder, vengeance or hate. To call this being a "freedom fighter" is a lot of tripe. It is just criminal terrorism. To look for a political solution from the barrel of a rifle is even more stupid! If you want peace and freedom then you have to forgive. If you can't forgive then you don't deserve freedom! Nothing was ever achieved by murder - except more murder! Forgiveness is that start of peace.
You seem able to see that murder begets murder and that Orange murders recruited more IRA men but, on the other hand, you seem wholly incapable of seeing that every time the IRA murdered another innocent woman or child, they were recruiting sergeant-majors for the UDA and Orange para-militaries. Wake up and look at it objectively! To be fair, the only people who were not recruited by the murders were the soliders themselves! But you seem to see only with the bigot's eye view.
"The Falls Curfew" was no worse - and a great deal better - than the murders of innocents by the IRA. Gas canisters hardly compares with murdering children and old women. To say, as you do, that "there was no going back after that" is exactly what bigots say! It is no good saying "sadlt the death of 4 civilians" - there was no excuse for any murder. Murder is no answer!
@Jacobitejim Cromwell banned football and christmas buddy....hes never gonna be viewed as well I am sorry.....most english I meet hate him just for those puritannical reasons...only a few northern irish trolls love him in order to stoke up trouble
On 22 March, Rory O'Connor held what was to become an infamous press conference and declared that the IRA would no longer obey the Dáil as (he said) it had violated its Oath to uphold the Irish Republic. He went on to say that "we repudiate the Dáil We will set up an Executive which will issue orders to the IRA all over the country". In reply to the question on whether this meant they intended to create a military dictatorship, OConnor said: "You can take it that way if you like". Fascist!
I chose the Green, they sing. No - they didn't! They chose to kill, maim and murder - even to murder children. No decent man or woman could ever want that. But they are not decent. The time for that is over. Now we must turn over a new leaf, forget the murderous past and live peacefully with our brothers. But will you do it? Or will you prefer to sing songs of murder and "Crossbarry"? Well, Malachy? Which will it be?
So long as people like Anne Byrne and Jesse Owens think that it is good to celebrate Irishmen murdering Irishmen and then blaming the Brits, there will never be peace. This obsession with rebellion and rebels is blind, bigoted, arrogant and ultimately murderous. It fails utterly. It does not recognise that the British of today are totally different from the oppressors of the Elizabethan and Cromwellian era. But that is because the IRA-lovers do not want to admit it. They want blood and gore.
And your argument for murdering people today is that someone, 250 years ago, did something bad to someone else. Stop kidding yourself! There will never be peace so long as people like you think that! Murder is NEVER the answer, Malachy. Get used to it. Now!
When the Brits left Ireland, those left behind were certainly Irish because they had always been Irish. The Orangemen are also as Irish as you even if they are also British. You do not get to call "Irish" only those people you like, Malachy!
Any atrocity story you care to come up with can be equalled and more with the facts about the bloody murderous IRA. The murderers do not speak for us. They never did and the don't now. They only speak for "themselves alone". The murdering IRA and UDA should all be locked away to keep the streets of Ireland safe for us all. Then peace might have a chance!
On "Bloody Friday" in 1972, an eyewitness said "You could hear people screaming and moaning...a human torso lying in the middle of the road, barely recognisable. One victim had amrs and legs blown off and some of her body blown through the railings. I saw a head stuck to a wall. A couple of days later we found vertebrae and a rib cage on the roof of a nearby building with seagulls diving on to it". Disgusting! This is the handiwork of the IRA against fellow Irish people!
@Jacobitejim well you could argue the loyalists were just as brutal when they killed 32 in a bus bombing in dublin in the 70s............no point taking sides in violent conflicts
In the 1960s the British Army went into save Catholics being massacred by demonic Orange mobs. Chichester-Clarke had created a disaster. The IRA then seized upon the situation to start a terror war. On 21 July 1972, "Bloody Friday", they let off 21 bombs simultaneousy in Belfast killing 9 innocent people. You do not deny this because you know it is true.
@Jacobitejim the catholic and protestant thing is so fucking overhyped and deliberately made over the hundreds of years as a divide and rule tactic...wolfe tone won of ireland biggest freedom fighters was a protestant...........the 1798 rebellion involved all religious backgrounds NEVER FORGET
@3tangle3 - Wolfe Tone and his tiny band of rebels lost and Tone cut his own throat. He and his were neither Protestant nor Catholic but mere revolutionaries taking their inspiration from the massive blood-letting of innocent people of the French Revolution. A Dublin taxi driver recently said to me Dev was a coward and a liar who detrayed Collins, thumbed his nose at the Dail and moved in when all his former mates were dead. Some hero!
@Jacobitejim your username is jacobite...........you are giving me a total mindfuck with its name....you should be on the side of those fighting imperialism and bullies for christ sakes wake up mate
@3tangle3 - I'm against bullies but, in my book, the IRA, IRB and the Fenians were just as much bullies as the Tans, Auxies or British Army bullies. They certainly endforsed murder. As for imperialism, don't forget that Brian Boru regarded himself as an emperor (of the Irish) and the Ard ri nhEireann or High King was regarded as an emperor. I think it's you who need to wake up, my friend.
@Jacobitejim join the club...I am not really a fan of the state or made up political boundaries or waving flags at olympic ceremonies at london 2012 lol...what I am interested in is a progressive tolerant and open minded mindset that I will like to see evoked in the people of Wales where I am from....while you have to be wise to the ways of the state...its the mindset I would like to see awoken not the god damn apathy that has stricken so many on this island...the tough part is how to start ;)
@3tangle3 - John Locke wrote one of the first treatises on toleration and in it he refused to tolerate Catholics. There has been a lot of tosh talked about toleration ever since. I am against tolerating public evils and in favour of tolerating public good. I am progressive if that means progress toward public good but not if it means endorsing public evils. Likewise I am open-minded to good but not evil. That seems to me a good place to start.
@3tangle3 - The so-called "loyalists" are not very loyal if they kill policemen and innocent civilians. In 1969 the British Army were sent in to protect Catholics from the so-called "Loyalists". Adams and McGuiness then cynically used the infulx of troops as a reason to start IRA riots. Both the IRA and the UDA are just rabble who have no real interest in Ireand's welfare at all.
@Jacobitejim but the british army stupidly thought that the problems of the 1960s were just a catholic and protestant thing...gerry adams is of protestant settler stock you know. his surname adams is a famous settler family
@3tangle3 - You're right: it was not Catholic/Protestant. It was revolutionary murderers versus the law-abiding citizenry. But the newspapers, both Irish and British, continually muddle the story and both Adams and McGuinness make propaganda out of it, pretending to speak for Irish Catholics when they speak only for Nazis and Stalinists.
@Jacobitejim trouble is while I agree with your sentiments.........evil and good are based on someone's perspective..ehnce why you have nuts doing what I consider wrong but they think its just...just look at killing in the name of the crusades and for God
Time's up for bigotry, racism, hatred, murder and bloodshed. Let's put the rebel songs on the back burner, sing the songs of peace and forget the hatred. Stop hating, Malachy. Be a man, be big enough to hold out the hand of friendship and reconciliation and hate your brother no more! And give peace a chance!
When you say the minority in the North you mean the Catholics. But you falsely pretend that they are of a different race than the NI Protestants. This is simply a lie. You also assume that all Catholics support nationalist, racist bigots of the kind you support. They dont! The vast majority of Catholics dislike them intensely. They hate the IRA, they hate racism and they want peace and reconciliation. It is only the bigots who are standing in the way of peace. Get out of the way!
Your confusion is shown when you say sectarian racist. Sectarianism is based on religion, not race. The Orangemen are as Irish as the Church of Ireland or the Irish Catholics, so the issue is not a racial one. It is only the IRA and its sympathisers (like you?) who have tried to make it a racial issue.
It will be obvious to anyone except you, it seems that I no more support murder by the British than I do by the IRA. They are both horribly wrong to murder. But you wont see this if you only see everything with one eye the eye of bigotry, the eye that can only see its own side and refuses to see the other guys point of view. So long as people like you do that, then the bigotry will continue. And that applies equally to the Brits and the Orangemen. I say the same to them: stop hating!
Which brings us back to the beginning: songs like this perpetuate the bigotry. It is time to change, to have done with the bigotry and hate whether of the Orangemen, the English or anyone else. Stop supporting bigotry and give peace a chance!
It is a myth to compare the soldiers and RUC of the 1960s with the Tans and Auxies. The latter went in to terrorise Ireland whereas the former were called in to protect the Catholic minority from the Orangemen. And so it would have remained but for the IRA seizing the opportunity to start afresh their Marxist war of revolution. ANY killing of children is disgraceful but it was the IRISH who largely did it to ourselves!!! What idiots are we that we want to murder each other????
When you talk about a new dawn and living for Ireland then you start to sound more normal. Keep it up, Malachy. Now youre talking. But you have to go one stage further and start to forgive and forget. You cannot have truth and reconciliation without forgiveness and forgetting past injuries. Ranting over the past will simply block the new dawn.
Amritsar, Derry and Widgery are ancient history. Only a bigot wants to shoot someone now for what happened decades ago. Bigotry, blood and murder all go together. There will be no solution until the bigotry stops.
Your reaction is like the old bigot who can only see his side versus the rest. That is exactly what bigotry is. There are many more sides than just two. There is, for instance, the side of the vast majority of Irish people of all religions who just want to live in peace and not be killed by the IRA, the UDA or British soldiers. So long as people like you give way to the bigots there will not only be murders on the streets but also soldiers.
So ignorant are you of Irish history that you even think the IRA was started in response to Carson, Faulkner and internment in the 60s! Actually, the IRA is much older than that and was the radical wing of the IRB. The IRB was founded by James Fitzjames Stephens, originally the Irish Revolutionary Brotherhood, it was later named the Irish Republican Brotherhood. It and the IRA were banned by every Catholic bishop in Ireland and condemned as gangs of thieves and murderers.
The native Irish included many Protestants and very few of them were transshipped to anywhere. Cromwells war was against popery and prelacy and not against Irishness. Large numbers of Irish Protestants were Cromwellites. In those days the war was not a nationalist one. It was religious. It only became nationalist after the French Revolution when the British government suddenly was more worried by revolution than Catholicism. How little you know of your own countrys history!
So long as people like you think that the only shame is in Downing Street then there will be no solution to the conflict. So long as people like you take the view that it is OK for the IRA to kill children, then the conflict will never be over. So long as people like you cannot see beyond the end of your myopic noses that nationalists murdering the innocent is not the solution and so long as you refuse to say it is wrong, then the end is not in sight. That is your legacy. It is just bigotry.
And that's it, isn't it, Malachy? Your response every time! You will never deny that you defend the nationalist's racist, Fascism, murder and criminal gangsterism. It's ok for the IRA to murder Kevin O'Higgins, the Free State Justice Minister because....wait for it...the Brits are to blame. Never mind that O'Higgins was fighting the Brits! Any nationalist murder is Ok, in your book, isn't it, Malachy? I reckon you'd excuse them even if they murdered your own wife or daughter!
No question - if you want to defend nationalist murdering then you should be utterly ashamed of yourself. It is a disgrace. A disgrace to self, to family, to Ireland and to everything worthwhile.
And your little rant about the Cairo gang no better nor worse than Collins infamous, Catholic-murdering, IRA hit men, The Squad shows that you still think that one ill deed justifies another and that one murder justifies another. And yet you talk of wanting peace. Who are you kidding? Murder is never the answer not by the IRA, not by the Orangemen, not by the Cairo gang, not by the Squad. But you seem to think murder is OK so long as the IRA are doing it!
You moan about the Orangemen saying "Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right" but they are no worse than the Green nationalists who effectively say "the nationalists will fight and the nationalists will be right". You are both as bad as each other! Thugs, killers and savages. You should all be ashamed of yourselves! Uncivilised animals, the lot of them.
And you are so unlearned that you can't even distinguish between sectarian Protestant hegemony and colonial hegemony! Where is the Orange empire? Where are the Orange colonies? Hmm? Don't exist, do they? No. Their beef is not imperialist but sectarian and religious. They think the IRA is Roman Catholic when - in reality - it is a Marxist-criminal gang of murderers bent upon a socialist-criminal republic - a Soviet republic of Ireland.
But you are right that nationalists created "the Troubles in the first place!. Rather than take the constitutionalist route to a united Ireland, the murderers kill, bomb and maim in the name of a mere piece of turf and in revenge for events that took place nearly 100 years ago and massacre children out of hatred for Craigavon and Carson who lived 100 years ago. What kind of cowardly, gutless creeps do that? And you WANT to defend them?
Brutal, bloody, senseless, gutless, cowardly murder of the innocent by stupid, mindless, criminal racist, Fascist, bigoted nationalist thugs. And you defend them. Sad. Pathetic, even.
And the IRA murderers and Fascists, who also do not know their history, murder innocent Irishmen for something done 500 years ago. They even murder children...like little Colin Nicholl aged 17 months who was murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA terrorists in a no warning bombing on 11 December 1971. Murder is an IRA speciality: Claudy, La Mon, Warrenpoint, Tullyvallen, Bloody Friday, Omagh, Kingsmill, Dropin Well, Darkley, Birmingham, Enniskillen, Shankill and many, many, many more.
Your knowledge of history is so thin that you overlook the fact that the Elizabethan clearances were orchestrated by the new Protestant establishment and were directed against Catholics in England and Scotland just as much as in Ireland and that Cromwells savagery against the people of Drogheda and elsewhere was for the same reason. THAT was his final solution for Ireland: kill or enslave all Catholics and replace them with Protestant planters - like Tones, Fitzgeralds and Emmets!
Your knowledge of your own history is laughably thin. Cromwell was a republican and murdered the king just as the IRA wanted to. He had any number of Irish Protestant supporters. Yep, I-R-I-S-H. Got it? And just as I said and true to form you try to justify IRA murders of innocent people on the basis of what other people did 400 and 500 years ago.
And you're still trying to justify murder. One murder does not justify another. Murder is never the answer. Slaughter, blood, killing - that is the IRA racist nationalist solution to everything - like any ignorant, barbarian gang of savages.
Malachy you are not going to excuse murder by pretending that anyone is defending either your Orangemen, your Presbyterians or your Church of Ireland men or even more dishonestly - by your pretending that Irish nationalist revolutionaries like Tone, Fitzgerald or Emmet belonged to any church and community other than the Church of Ireland, the very same established church as did all other members of the ascendancy establishment to which they so certainly belonged. Get used to it!
We cannot re-write history but we can learn from it. The racist, bigoted nationalists refuse to learn even the basic of history. They learn a lie, live a lie and murder, bomb and maim in the name of a lie. Then they pretend to justify their lies and murder with such lame excuses as that is the way of the world. How can the world improve if people argue like that? Murder is not the answer.
It is another typical ploy of the gangster trying to justify murder that he boasts of his murders and pretends they are armed actions. He returns to his vile murders as a dog returns to its vomit.
At least youve woken up to the fact that the Presbyterians are Protestant Orangeman. But if you think the troubles are over then you are still in fantasyland. They will not be over until the kind of bigoted, racist twaddle that you are so hopelessly defending has gone forever. You are perpetuating the troubles by peddling such tripe. The young turks you speak of are simply a new generation of youngsters fed the same bigoted, racist, claptrap that created the troubles in the first place.
The reply of every gangster is that no-one has a monopoly on killing. You are simply trying to justify murder and that is exactly my point! Racist nationalism ends by trying to justify murder and that is precisely what is wrong with it. They are not armed actions they are murder pure and simple. If you approve of murder then you should be ashamed of yourself. It is disgusting, brutal, cruel and cowardly.
first time that I heard the line "and fought with James Connolly true". All the other versions usually name de Valera or Cathal Brugha. Nevertheless a great rendition :)
And before anyone tries to call me a liar - go and look it up. It's true. You'll see it's 100% true. The large majority of the police, yeomanry and militia were Catholics. Protestant rebels like Tone, Emmett and Fitzgerald were strongly opposed by the vast majority of Catholics and by the Catholic bishops. The Fenians were formally condemned by the Church on several occasions.
Not an old song but new. Ireland's ancient history was strongly Catholic and strongly Jacobite but this song, fine tho' it is, celebrates secular revolution. Fenianism was rejected by most Irishmen and Collins' infamous "Squad" murdered Catholics in Church. When they were captured in 1916, the rebels were booed and heckled by Dubliners in the streets. Republican revolution in Ireland was invented by secular Protestants like Tone, Emmett and Fitzgerald, and not by Catholics.
Hey jim interesting comment about the secular protestants, i too found that it was mostly them who started the republican revolution. any books that are evenhanded reading you could recommend?
Very hard to find these days but I suggest "The Cross of St Patrick" by John Biggs-Davison. "Ireland and the Jacobite Cause" by Eamonn O'Ciardha is a bit heavy but good - the author, although republican nationalist, is at least an honest historian and shows how the loss of the Gaelic allowed Irishmen to be manipulated by English-speaking Protestant secularists.
So if your neighbour is bad you can be, too? How Catholic is that? Not! Fact is, most Irish Catholics were against murder, Collins and his gang that's why the rebels were booed in the streets by the Catholic Dubliners. Between the Tans and the IRA, both criminal gangs, the innocent Irish were harried and terrorised. If you side with the IRA you are just as bad as the Tans and every bit as bigoted, racist and fanatical. Irish nationalism was started by Anglo-Irish Protestants, not Catholics.
When you have finished foaming at the mouth you might just realise that Presbyterians ARE Protestants (doh!). Terrorism and murder are not justified merely by calling them "anti-Colonial" or "anti-Imperialist". And adjust your reading glasses, dopey - I never said "your side". I said "if..." conditional. Wakey, wakey.
I am reading OUR history. My people were Lynches from West Cork so stick that in your pipe and smoke it! And if you bothered to read our history - instead of the tripe that is dished up by Anglo-Irish spin doctors - you would know that the 1798 rebellion was spawned by Anglo-Irish Protestants copying the French Revolution and was put down by Irish Catholics. 80% of the Yeomanry were Catholic. Back to the bottom of the class, gombeen!
80% of the Yeomanry were Catholic. How many were rebels? Almost none. So who had the majority on their side? Those who were turning the spit were the stupid rebels and revolutionaries who wanted to turn Ireland into a blood bath like France. What kind of lunatic wants that for his country? You? Really?
The Squad and the IRA shot Catholics coming out of Church. They also attempted to shoot Catholics in the confessional. The idea that they only shot Brits or Prods is baloney. They were terrorists who sought to terrorise the Catholics as much as anyone else. Get used to it, buddy!
After the Anglo-Irish Prods like Tone, Fitzgerald and Emmett, came a long line of secularist revolutionaries who favoured terrorism - Stephens, Meagher (chose the revolutionary flag), O'Mahoney etc - all opposed strongly by the Irish bishops. Catholics like O'Connell, Redmond and Dillon were for change constitutionally not by bombs, terrorism or revolution. The stupid bomb-throwers, only delayed home rule. Terrorism was a stupid blunder by crazy, racist ultra-nationalist bigots.
Two Divisions of Irishmen from the South served in that war - unlike the handful of rebels in the GPO. They volunteered - at Redmond's call - not Craig or Carson. Connolly, who was a self-confessed Marxist, and the ICA were in a tiny minority. But for the bomb-throwers, terrorists and rebels, the Home Rule Bill of 1914 would have come 50 years earlier. So said Dillon and Redmond - both Irish Catholic MPs. And you think you know your history, do you? Clearly not!
Then why did Redmond have to go on a huge recruiting drive all over the South? Fact: there was massive volunteering due to Redmond's drive and no conscription. Not only is it a surprise to many that Connolly was a Commie (even you called him a "reactionary" below!) but many are still in denial about it. Redmond and Dillon were right - the Home Rule Bill passed in 1914 and would have been enforced but the idiot rebels once again stuffed the process of Home Rule.
Face facts: a hundred thousand Irishmen volunteered to fight for that Empire. The myopic view was that of the rebels who were reviled by Dubliners for their stupidity. The bomb-throwers and terrorists had set back the cause of Irish freedom by 50-100 years just because they wanted to make a big noise. The Irish would have had Home Rule under Gladstone but for the fat-headed terrorists. Murder is never the right answer.
No-one is as despotic as a Marxist terrorist and Connolly is not excepted. Once again your argument consists of no more than vengeance and rendering evil for evil. That is expressly forbidden by the Catholic religion. No reasonable person does it. You are therefore admitting that the nationalist fanatics are unreasonable and anti-Catholic. Exactly my point - thank you for making it for me! Murder is never the answer.
Yes - let's look at the facts. Something you've not been good at so far. The Protestant English government feared Catholic Ireland, not Irish people. They did not fear Irish Protestants. So they were Protestant bullies but not racists. The racists are the fanatical nationalists who hate on the basis of race. You are right that the Irish people never sought vengeance. But the murderers, gangster and thugs of the IRA - a tiny minority - certainly did. But not for liberty - only for hate.
You are delivering very biased nationalism, sadly, and demonstrating a very weak understanding of our history. This is a nice song but its sentiments are the same: pie-in-the-sky racist, nationalist fantasy. The citizens of Dublin were no longer living in "dark times" - they had every chance of home rule but the bomb-throwers and assassins kept spoiling their chances. Ulster Catholic, Charles Russell, was Lord Chief Justice of England - anything was possible! But the terrorists wrecked it all!
Why does every Irish folk song video have you turn into a political argument?
17black29red 4 weeks ago
@Jacobitejim no sorry man he wasnt a republican and that wil offend many english republicans....he was a tyrannical dictator....THE REAL republicans were called the levellers and they were locked up and kept silent by crmwell and his new elite.........I am sorry oliver cromwell was only a replican as a tool to become an emperor in all but name.
Him banning football or christmas is not a result of having a "republic" (which its wasnt)....USA hasnt banned christmas
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - He certainly WAS a republican. The Levellers were early communists. You forget - Cromwell orchestrated the murder of King Charles I. On his tomb is inscribed "No king but Christ". The 1798 rebels, the IRB, the IRA, the Fenians and even the Parnellites took inspiration from Cromwell's republicanism. Stalin was a republican but he, too, acted as a one-man tyrant. Modern republicanism derives from Calvinism. The USA certainly banned alcohol. Never heard of "Prohibition"?
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim i wasnt saying the US is perfect....but why is a monarchy supposedly ordained by God better than an independently elected president??...cromwell was not a republic as there was no universal suffrage fair play.............new zealand was first to grant universal suffrage
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - A republic is a republic, whether democratic or not, and so was Cromwell's. Do you think the US presidential (or any presidential) election is "independent". Really? Well, it's a point of view, I guess! Personally, I think that even the Stewart monarchs were far more answerable to the people than any US President. God certainly say a lot about kings - Judah, the Lion's whelp and all that - but government can take many forms e.g. the Florentine and Venetian republics.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim I beg to differ about it being a republic............labels are only as good as the people who use them and I personally dont count that as a republic
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - No - labels and language are a common cultural factor. They do not merely depend upon the person using them. One may call an apple a carrot but does that make it a carrot? No. You probably don't call Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia or Pol Pot's Cambodia republics, either. But that is what they were. What you perhaps mean is that they are not the kind of republic you would like. But perhaps your kind of republic simply does not exist? If so, where is it?
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
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@Jacobitejim yeah i know the irish elite were probably just as much cunts although relatively irish and welsh law doesnt seem as brutal in some ways.........as a evolutionary biologist I am interested in the fact the first settlers had the most egalitarian society and the society today is the least egalitarian.......possibly due to obvious biggest bullies wins principle
3tangle3 3 months ago
" Proud Republican" you may be but you are no Catholic if you defend murder by saying "war is hell". You forget that the Catholic bishops relentlessly condemned the Fenians and rebels and excommunicated them. It was Dermot MacMorrough, King of Leinster, who invited King Henry II to invade Ireland in 1171. The Pope authorised the invasion to stop Irishmen murdering each other. Now the Republic is bankrupt, political leaders hated and the Church reviled. Some freedom!
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
Good rendition but where's the last verse?
"Ah then back to the glen I rode again, though my heart with grief was sore,
For I parted then with valiant men I will never see more.
But to and fro in my dreams I go, and I kneel and pray for you,
For Slavery fled, O! Rebel Dead, when you fell in the Foggy Dew!
FergusMacRoig 6 months ago
@FergusMacRoig I am trying to make a welsh version of this about the merthyr rising of 1831
3tangle3 3 months ago
What an incredible voice!! Pure, crystal clear soprano! Just amaziing she was not more well known. I wonder if Joan Baez & Anne Byrne ever met each other in the 1960's?
folkmusicgirl 11 months ago
Never heard of her before, this is superb. Would love to see/hear more of her if you have any
barcelona36 1 year ago
@barcelona36 She and he were fairly popular in 60s..Ireland....early ballad revival days..don't know if they recorded ...LPs r 45s....would be rare I imagine.
Lisnageeragh 1 year ago
@barcelona36 She and he were fairly popular in 60s..Ireland....early ballad revival days..don't know if they recorded ...LPs r 45s....would be rare I imagine. She had a nice voice ...may have been trained.
Lisnageeragh 1 year ago
Great stuff! Thanks.
MustaffaCuppa 1 year ago
Quelle belle voix ! Merci
saturne46 1 year ago
Angel's voice.
partisan72 1 year ago
Beautiful voice!
dominiquedv 1 year ago
just beutiful
ann would love to hear more
kateez1 1 year ago
<< Proud Republican , Proud Catholic, Proud of the Freedom Fighters of Ireland!War is hell and there would be no war if the loving British army/government had simply stayed home and out of Ireland.
catholicrik 1 year ago 8
And let's not forget the cold-blooded murder of Denis Donaldson, former IRA and Sinn Fein, shot dead by the IRA at a cottage in Co Donegal. These brutal murders are the work of devils more disgusting than the most savage of animals.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
@Jacobitejim And let's not forget Donaldson was a British informer who tried to sabotage the peace process. And let's remember how British Intelligence outed him and left him to spin in the wind. I wonder who killed him, the cops have not solved it. You certainly don't know.
TrueNovice 1 year ago
@TrueNovice There was, and still is no nation more treacherous than England. Ask the Scots, the Welsh, the Indians, the Malaysians and the Russian POW (Victims of Yalta). Ireland has had some experience with them as well (Bloody Sunday to name one incident). The English write the history but eventually the truth comes out. Unfortunately the average Brit is not interested in the truth.
FlovishRock 11 months ago 2
@FlovishRock the irish had to pretty fucking bad!....the welsh had it equally bad but earlier on in time so its more forgetten....dont forget poor cornish....which were genocided in 1497
3tangle3 3 months ago
@FlovishRock - With this reply you prove that you are not only a Fascist but also a racist.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@FlovishRock - Stalinist Russia? Nazi Germany? Pol Pot's government? No, the fact is that you are simply an anti-English racist and a disgrace to yourself and your countrymen. There have been millions and millions of good English people, like any country. The Maltese are Catholic and warmly friendly to England, wanting once to be part of England. You are also ignorant of both truth and history. There are few modern groups as treacherous, murderous and vile as Sinn Fein/IRA and the UDA/UDL.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
And remember when three gutless creeps from the IRA shot Ross McWhirter in the face at his own front door when he had his own child in his arms. Then these cowardly scum ran away to do another disgraceful murder another day. Do you REALLY want to side with these animals? Really?
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
And this silly woman, Anne Byrne, wants to sing nice songs about the cowardly and gutless thugs who brutally slaughtered - and frequently tortured - those named below. Disgusting.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
@Jacobitejim what about the irish prisoners who were tied up and burnt at the stake by english troops in the 1798 rebellion...you seem to be particularly picking on the irish to be fair
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - any burning done by government forces was done by native Irishmen since over 80% of the Yeomanry were native Irish Catholics! The rebels were mostly, like Tone, English Protestants turned revolutionaries.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
Charles McIlmurry, Thomas Wilson, Eamonn Maguire, Francisco Notorantonio, Patrick Kelly, Patrick McKearney, Declan Arthurs, Seamus Donnelly, Eugene Kelly, Michael Gormley, Gerard OCallaghan, James Lynagh, Anthony McKiernan, Joseph Fenton, John McAnulty, Paddy Flood,Tom Oliver, Rory Finnis, Aidan Starrs, Gregory Burns, John Dignam, Robin Hill, Gerald Holmes, Christopher Harte, James Kelly, John Mulhern, Michael Brown, Caroline Moreland, and Joseph OConnor.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
The IRA killed its own: Paul Valente, Maurice Gilvarry, Patrick Trainor, Vincent Robinson, Anthony Braniff, John Torbett, Seamus Morgan, Patrick Scott, James Young, Brian McNally, Kevin Coyle, John Corcoran, Séan OCallaghan, Catherine and Gerard Mahon, Damien McCrory, DJ, Patrick Murray, Frank Hegarty, David McVeigh (contd)
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
And don't forget all the people that the IRA killed of their own people whom they pretended were "informers". What rats, claiming to protect their own people whilst murdering them!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Probably the absolute pinnacle of hypocrisy must be for the IRA to complain about covert operations. Their whole murderous methods were covert! In fact, the IRA are in no position to complain about any tactics since theirs lacked every semblance of morality, legitimacy, decency, honesty or right. What appalling hypocrisy to complain, therefore!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
The reality is that the whole "hate the Brits" thing has been a disaster throughout the whole Hibernian diaspora persuading whole generations of Irish boys to throw their lot in with Communists, Fascists, weirdos, no-goods, thugs and crims, the world over. Look at that fraud, Ted Kennedy. He would never have got anywhere but for the fact that he could always play the anti-Brit, nationalist card and so get votes in Boston.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Irish songs are brilliant - until they start to extol the killers. Anne Byrne should have sung the songs of peace - not war and hatred. Look what happened to Luke Kelly: he became a Communist in the end. Fat lot of good that did him or Ireland. Ronnie Drew never did and laughed at Luke's political views. He never fell for the myths, even though eh would occasionally sing rebel songs.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
I would have been a Free Stater, too, so we agree on that. And I agree that the Civil War was madness. And obviously I agree that the Rejectionists are wrong. When will these clowns realise that the Irish and the British are not enemies and that the only real enemies are the terrorists. While the terrorists throw bombs ordinary English and Irish people have been marrying each other in large numbers for years!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Jacobitejim and malachy1847, if you want to discuss, anymore of what your talking about, do it on your own channels.
machree01 2 years ago
How does it affect you?
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
i tell you how it effects me, it's culttering-up my inbox and i have to bloody clear it every time. Discussiton it on your own sites, alright.
machree01 2 years ago
It won't go to your in-box unless you choose so.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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You write: "many came out that process full of hate for outhers side harden men bent on one thing to fight back...." NO EXCUSE! Murder and hatred can NEVER be excused, whatever you have had to suffer yourself. End of story. All sides of the debate should have joined forces to work against the "hardened men" who are no more than vile criminal thugs. We should all - all sides - work together to get all the terrorists - Green, Orange or Red, White and Blue - imprisoned for a good long time.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Murder never achieved anything. Stop murder now! Cut the rebel songs that extol murder and hatred and sing the songs of peace and charity - there are pelnty of them! Give peace a chance, Malachy!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
And why do nationalists hate the Queen? What has she ever done to Ireland? She did not become Queen until 3 years after the South was made a republic. As for government policy on NI, that is decided by elections, not the Queen. She has not the power to change policy. Her father and grandfather loved Ireland and hated the Tans and the Auxies as much as the IRA. Yet nationalists hate her - and them! Why? Go figure???? More bigotry!!!!!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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Give up the hatred and murder and restore peace and charity. That is the only way. Chuck out the songs of war and replace them with songs of peace and friendship. Do not hate your brother. There is no peace in it - for the country or for oneself.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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Jacobitejim 2 years ago
The historical fact is - like it or not - that the Irish before 1792 were Jacobites not Jacobins. They supported the Catholic kings and not the French republicans. Read O'Ciardha's book! They lost the Irish language and fell prey to stupid Anglo-Irish Protestant revolutionaries. THAT was the start of Irish republicanism! Anglo-Protestants started it! It was their idea! They were following Cromwell! Wake up and smell the truth.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
And don't forget the words of "The Croppy Boy": "My aged father did me deny
And the name he gave me was the Croppy Boy". Why? Because his father, like almost all Irish Catholics of the time, opposed the 1798 rebellion as folly and stupidity. And 80% of the Yeomanry were irish Catholics. They did not approve rebellion! Don't forget it!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
By the way, I totally agree that internment without trial was madness - Faulkner's folly and Ted Heath's, too. But most Brits thought the same, by the way! That was partly why Heath lost an election in 1974 - twice! Don't forget that King George V had been the initiator of peace talks after 1916 and hated the Black and Tans, particularly for brutalising what he still regarded as his subjects in Ireland. He considered them uniformed thugs and not soliders. Yet nationalists hate the monarch!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
It is ridiculous for someone like you to complain about Prince Charles wearing uniform when you want to celebrate the ICA, the Volunteers, "Crossbarry" and rebels songs about murder. That just looks hypocritical. In any case, how can Charles avoid it? He is the future king and kings have to wear the uniforms of their servicemen. Irish generals do the same! You're just playing silly games.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Many related to those butchered by the IRA on Bloody Friday - or any other day - wouldn't see it that way either! Torsos and limbs everywhere, heads stuck to walls, vertebrae on the roof - imagine if that was YOUR nearest and dearest! Murder is no answer - EVER.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Having been interned is no justification for murder, vengeance or hate. To call this being a "freedom fighter" is a lot of tripe. It is just criminal terrorism. To look for a political solution from the barrel of a rifle is even more stupid! If you want peace and freedom then you have to forgive. If you can't forgive then you don't deserve freedom! Nothing was ever achieved by murder - except more murder! Forgiveness is that start of peace.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
You seem able to see that murder begets murder and that Orange murders recruited more IRA men but, on the other hand, you seem wholly incapable of seeing that every time the IRA murdered another innocent woman or child, they were recruiting sergeant-majors for the UDA and Orange para-militaries. Wake up and look at it objectively! To be fair, the only people who were not recruited by the murders were the soliders themselves! But you seem to see only with the bigot's eye view.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
"The Falls Curfew" was no worse - and a great deal better - than the murders of innocents by the IRA. Gas canisters hardly compares with murdering children and old women. To say, as you do, that "there was no going back after that" is exactly what bigots say! It is no good saying "sadlt the death of 4 civilians" - there was no excuse for any murder. Murder is no answer!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
How are people like O'Connor any better than Cronwell? It's just a matter of numbers dead!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
@Jacobitejim Cromwell banned football and christmas buddy....hes never gonna be viewed as well I am sorry.....most english I meet hate him just for those puritannical reasons...only a few northern irish trolls love him in order to stoke up trouble
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - Yep - and Cromwell was a republican!
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
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3tangle3 3 months ago
On 22 March, Rory O'Connor held what was to become an infamous press conference and declared that the IRA would no longer obey the Dáil as (he said) it had violated its Oath to uphold the Irish Republic. He went on to say that "we repudiate the Dáil We will set up an Executive which will issue orders to the IRA all over the country". In reply to the question on whether this meant they intended to create a military dictatorship, OConnor said: "You can take it that way if you like". Fascist!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
I chose the Green, they sing. No - they didn't! They chose to kill, maim and murder - even to murder children. No decent man or woman could ever want that. But they are not decent. The time for that is over. Now we must turn over a new leaf, forget the murderous past and live peacefully with our brothers. But will you do it? Or will you prefer to sing songs of murder and "Crossbarry"? Well, Malachy? Which will it be?
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
So long as people like Anne Byrne and Jesse Owens think that it is good to celebrate Irishmen murdering Irishmen and then blaming the Brits, there will never be peace. This obsession with rebellion and rebels is blind, bigoted, arrogant and ultimately murderous. It fails utterly. It does not recognise that the British of today are totally different from the oppressors of the Elizabethan and Cromwellian era. But that is because the IRA-lovers do not want to admit it. They want blood and gore.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
And your argument for murdering people today is that someone, 250 years ago, did something bad to someone else. Stop kidding yourself! There will never be peace so long as people like you think that! Murder is NEVER the answer, Malachy. Get used to it. Now!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
When the Brits left Ireland, those left behind were certainly Irish because they had always been Irish. The Orangemen are also as Irish as you even if they are also British. You do not get to call "Irish" only those people you like, Malachy!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Any atrocity story you care to come up with can be equalled and more with the facts about the bloody murderous IRA. The murderers do not speak for us. They never did and the don't now. They only speak for "themselves alone". The murdering IRA and UDA should all be locked away to keep the streets of Ireland safe for us all. Then peace might have a chance!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
On "Bloody Friday" in 1972, an eyewitness said "You could hear people screaming and moaning...a human torso lying in the middle of the road, barely recognisable. One victim had amrs and legs blown off and some of her body blown through the railings. I saw a head stuck to a wall. A couple of days later we found vertebrae and a rib cage on the roof of a nearby building with seagulls diving on to it". Disgusting! This is the handiwork of the IRA against fellow Irish people!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
@Jacobitejim well you could argue the loyalists were just as brutal when they killed 32 in a bus bombing in dublin in the 70s............no point taking sides in violent conflicts
3tangle3 3 months ago
In the 1960s the British Army went into save Catholics being massacred by demonic Orange mobs. Chichester-Clarke had created a disaster. The IRA then seized upon the situation to start a terror war. On 21 July 1972, "Bloody Friday", they let off 21 bombs simultaneousy in Belfast killing 9 innocent people. You do not deny this because you know it is true.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
@Jacobitejim the catholic and protestant thing is so fucking overhyped and deliberately made over the hundreds of years as a divide and rule tactic...wolfe tone won of ireland biggest freedom fighters was a protestant...........the 1798 rebellion involved all religious backgrounds NEVER FORGET
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - Wolfe Tone and his tiny band of rebels lost and Tone cut his own throat. He and his were neither Protestant nor Catholic but mere revolutionaries taking their inspiration from the massive blood-letting of innocent people of the French Revolution. A Dublin taxi driver recently said to me Dev was a coward and a liar who detrayed Collins, thumbed his nose at the Dail and moved in when all his former mates were dead. Some hero!
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim your username is jacobite...........you are giving me a total mindfuck with its name....you should be on the side of those fighting imperialism and bullies for christ sakes wake up mate
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - I'm against bullies but, in my book, the IRA, IRB and the Fenians were just as much bullies as the Tans, Auxies or British Army bullies. They certainly endforsed murder. As for imperialism, don't forget that Brian Boru regarded himself as an emperor (of the Irish) and the Ard ri nhEireann or High King was regarded as an emperor. I think it's you who need to wake up, my friend.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim join the club...I am not really a fan of the state or made up political boundaries or waving flags at olympic ceremonies at london 2012 lol...what I am interested in is a progressive tolerant and open minded mindset that I will like to see evoked in the people of Wales where I am from....while you have to be wise to the ways of the state...its the mindset I would like to see awoken not the god damn apathy that has stricken so many on this island...the tough part is how to start ;)
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - John Locke wrote one of the first treatises on toleration and in it he refused to tolerate Catholics. There has been a lot of tosh talked about toleration ever since. I am against tolerating public evils and in favour of tolerating public good. I am progressive if that means progress toward public good but not if it means endorsing public evils. Likewise I am open-minded to good but not evil. That seems to me a good place to start.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
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3tangle3 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim the first deaths of the troubles is said to be a bomb attack on a power station by loyalists in 1969 killing 3 protestants bizarrely
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - The so-called "loyalists" are not very loyal if they kill policemen and innocent civilians. In 1969 the British Army were sent in to protect Catholics from the so-called "Loyalists". Adams and McGuiness then cynically used the infulx of troops as a reason to start IRA riots. Both the IRA and the UDA are just rabble who have no real interest in Ireand's welfare at all.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim but the british army stupidly thought that the problems of the 1960s were just a catholic and protestant thing...gerry adams is of protestant settler stock you know. his surname adams is a famous settler family
3tangle3 3 months ago
@3tangle3 - You're right: it was not Catholic/Protestant. It was revolutionary murderers versus the law-abiding citizenry. But the newspapers, both Irish and British, continually muddle the story and both Adams and McGuinness make propaganda out of it, pretending to speak for Irish Catholics when they speak only for Nazis and Stalinists.
Jacobitejim 3 months ago
@Jacobitejim trouble is while I agree with your sentiments.........evil and good are based on someone's perspective..ehnce why you have nuts doing what I consider wrong but they think its just...just look at killing in the name of the crusades and for God
3tangle3 3 months ago
Time's up for bigotry, racism, hatred, murder and bloodshed. Let's put the rebel songs on the back burner, sing the songs of peace and forget the hatred. Stop hating, Malachy. Be a man, be big enough to hold out the hand of friendship and reconciliation and hate your brother no more! And give peace a chance!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
When you say the minority in the North you mean the Catholics. But you falsely pretend that they are of a different race than the NI Protestants. This is simply a lie. You also assume that all Catholics support nationalist, racist bigots of the kind you support. They dont! The vast majority of Catholics dislike them intensely. They hate the IRA, they hate racism and they want peace and reconciliation. It is only the bigots who are standing in the way of peace. Get out of the way!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Your confusion is shown when you say sectarian racist. Sectarianism is based on religion, not race. The Orangemen are as Irish as the Church of Ireland or the Irish Catholics, so the issue is not a racial one. It is only the IRA and its sympathisers (like you?) who have tried to make it a racial issue.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
It will be obvious to anyone except you, it seems that I no more support murder by the British than I do by the IRA. They are both horribly wrong to murder. But you wont see this if you only see everything with one eye the eye of bigotry, the eye that can only see its own side and refuses to see the other guys point of view. So long as people like you do that, then the bigotry will continue. And that applies equally to the Brits and the Orangemen. I say the same to them: stop hating!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
So long as you continue to have hate in your heart, Malachy, you are part of the problem and not the solution.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Which brings us back to the beginning: songs like this perpetuate the bigotry. It is time to change, to have done with the bigotry and hate whether of the Orangemen, the English or anyone else. Stop supporting bigotry and give peace a chance!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
It is a myth to compare the soldiers and RUC of the 1960s with the Tans and Auxies. The latter went in to terrorise Ireland whereas the former were called in to protect the Catholic minority from the Orangemen. And so it would have remained but for the IRA seizing the opportunity to start afresh their Marxist war of revolution. ANY killing of children is disgraceful but it was the IRISH who largely did it to ourselves!!! What idiots are we that we want to murder each other????
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
When you talk about a new dawn and living for Ireland then you start to sound more normal. Keep it up, Malachy. Now youre talking. But you have to go one stage further and start to forgive and forget. You cannot have truth and reconciliation without forgiveness and forgetting past injuries. Ranting over the past will simply block the new dawn.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Monday club what? Eh? Now you are beginning to sound a bit loony, Malachy? Have you been drinking?
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Amritsar, Derry and Widgery are ancient history. Only a bigot wants to shoot someone now for what happened decades ago. Bigotry, blood and murder all go together. There will be no solution until the bigotry stops.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Your reaction is like the old bigot who can only see his side versus the rest. That is exactly what bigotry is. There are many more sides than just two. There is, for instance, the side of the vast majority of Irish people of all religions who just want to live in peace and not be killed by the IRA, the UDA or British soldiers. So long as people like you give way to the bigots there will not only be murders on the streets but also soldiers.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
So ignorant are you of Irish history that you even think the IRA was started in response to Carson, Faulkner and internment in the 60s! Actually, the IRA is much older than that and was the radical wing of the IRB. The IRB was founded by James Fitzjames Stephens, originally the Irish Revolutionary Brotherhood, it was later named the Irish Republican Brotherhood. It and the IRA were banned by every Catholic bishop in Ireland and condemned as gangs of thieves and murderers.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
The native Irish included many Protestants and very few of them were transshipped to anywhere. Cromwells war was against popery and prelacy and not against Irishness. Large numbers of Irish Protestants were Cromwellites. In those days the war was not a nationalist one. It was religious. It only became nationalist after the French Revolution when the British government suddenly was more worried by revolution than Catholicism. How little you know of your own countrys history!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
So long as people like you think that the only shame is in Downing Street then there will be no solution to the conflict. So long as people like you take the view that it is OK for the IRA to kill children, then the conflict will never be over. So long as people like you cannot see beyond the end of your myopic noses that nationalists murdering the innocent is not the solution and so long as you refuse to say it is wrong, then the end is not in sight. That is your legacy. It is just bigotry.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
And that's it, isn't it, Malachy? Your response every time! You will never deny that you defend the nationalist's racist, Fascism, murder and criminal gangsterism. It's ok for the IRA to murder Kevin O'Higgins, the Free State Justice Minister because....wait for it...the Brits are to blame. Never mind that O'Higgins was fighting the Brits! Any nationalist murder is Ok, in your book, isn't it, Malachy? I reckon you'd excuse them even if they murdered your own wife or daughter!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
The ultimate traitor to Ireland is the one who thinks murder is a solution to any problem.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
No question - if you want to defend nationalist murdering then you should be utterly ashamed of yourself. It is a disgrace. A disgrace to self, to family, to Ireland and to everything worthwhile.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
And your little rant about the Cairo gang no better nor worse than Collins infamous, Catholic-murdering, IRA hit men, The Squad shows that you still think that one ill deed justifies another and that one murder justifies another. And yet you talk of wanting peace. Who are you kidding? Murder is never the answer not by the IRA, not by the Orangemen, not by the Cairo gang, not by the Squad. But you seem to think murder is OK so long as the IRA are doing it!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
You moan about the Orangemen saying "Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right" but they are no worse than the Green nationalists who effectively say "the nationalists will fight and the nationalists will be right". You are both as bad as each other! Thugs, killers and savages. You should all be ashamed of yourselves! Uncivilised animals, the lot of them.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
And you are so unlearned that you can't even distinguish between sectarian Protestant hegemony and colonial hegemony! Where is the Orange empire? Where are the Orange colonies? Hmm? Don't exist, do they? No. Their beef is not imperialist but sectarian and religious. They think the IRA is Roman Catholic when - in reality - it is a Marxist-criminal gang of murderers bent upon a socialist-criminal republic - a Soviet republic of Ireland.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
But you are right that nationalists created "the Troubles in the first place!. Rather than take the constitutionalist route to a united Ireland, the murderers kill, bomb and maim in the name of a mere piece of turf and in revenge for events that took place nearly 100 years ago and massacre children out of hatred for Craigavon and Carson who lived 100 years ago. What kind of cowardly, gutless creeps do that? And you WANT to defend them?
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Brutal, bloody, senseless, gutless, cowardly murder of the innocent by stupid, mindless, criminal racist, Fascist, bigoted nationalist thugs. And you defend them. Sad. Pathetic, even.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
And the IRA murderers and Fascists, who also do not know their history, murder innocent Irishmen for something done 500 years ago. They even murder children...like little Colin Nicholl aged 17 months who was murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA terrorists in a no warning bombing on 11 December 1971. Murder is an IRA speciality: Claudy, La Mon, Warrenpoint, Tullyvallen, Bloody Friday, Omagh, Kingsmill, Dropin Well, Darkley, Birmingham, Enniskillen, Shankill and many, many, many more.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Your knowledge of history is so thin that you overlook the fact that the Elizabethan clearances were orchestrated by the new Protestant establishment and were directed against Catholics in England and Scotland just as much as in Ireland and that Cromwells savagery against the people of Drogheda and elsewhere was for the same reason. THAT was his final solution for Ireland: kill or enslave all Catholics and replace them with Protestant planters - like Tones, Fitzgeralds and Emmets!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Your knowledge of your own history is laughably thin. Cromwell was a republican and murdered the king just as the IRA wanted to. He had any number of Irish Protestant supporters. Yep, I-R-I-S-H. Got it? And just as I said and true to form you try to justify IRA murders of innocent people on the basis of what other people did 400 and 500 years ago.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
And you're still trying to justify murder. One murder does not justify another. Murder is never the answer. Slaughter, blood, killing - that is the IRA racist nationalist solution to everything - like any ignorant, barbarian gang of savages.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Malachy you are not going to excuse murder by pretending that anyone is defending either your Orangemen, your Presbyterians or your Church of Ireland men or even more dishonestly - by your pretending that Irish nationalist revolutionaries like Tone, Fitzgerald or Emmet belonged to any church and community other than the Church of Ireland, the very same established church as did all other members of the ascendancy establishment to which they so certainly belonged. Get used to it!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
I thought you'd be back for more.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Malachy you ought to be ashamed of yourself defending murder. Murder is not the answer. Ever.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
We cannot re-write history but we can learn from it. The racist, bigoted nationalists refuse to learn even the basic of history. They learn a lie, live a lie and murder, bomb and maim in the name of a lie. Then they pretend to justify their lies and murder with such lame excuses as that is the way of the world. How can the world improve if people argue like that? Murder is not the answer.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
It is another typical ploy of the gangster trying to justify murder that he boasts of his murders and pretends they are armed actions. He returns to his vile murders as a dog returns to its vomit.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
At least youve woken up to the fact that the Presbyterians are Protestant Orangeman. But if you think the troubles are over then you are still in fantasyland. They will not be over until the kind of bigoted, racist twaddle that you are so hopelessly defending has gone forever. You are perpetuating the troubles by peddling such tripe. The young turks you speak of are simply a new generation of youngsters fed the same bigoted, racist, claptrap that created the troubles in the first place.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
The reply of every gangster is that no-one has a monopoly on killing. You are simply trying to justify murder and that is exactly my point! Racist nationalism ends by trying to justify murder and that is precisely what is wrong with it. They are not armed actions they are murder pure and simple. If you approve of murder then you should be ashamed of yourself. It is disgusting, brutal, cruel and cowardly.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Jesse's guitar isn't half bad - but that Anne Byrne - What a voice!
patrickpjr 2 years ago
first time that I heard the line "and fought with James Connolly true". All the other versions usually name de Valera or Cathal Brugha. Nevertheless a great rendition :)
cruelintone 2 years ago
And before anyone tries to call me a liar - go and look it up. It's true. You'll see it's 100% true. The large majority of the police, yeomanry and militia were Catholics. Protestant rebels like Tone, Emmett and Fitzgerald were strongly opposed by the vast majority of Catholics and by the Catholic bishops. The Fenians were formally condemned by the Church on several occasions.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Not an old song but new. Ireland's ancient history was strongly Catholic and strongly Jacobite but this song, fine tho' it is, celebrates secular revolution. Fenianism was rejected by most Irishmen and Collins' infamous "Squad" murdered Catholics in Church. When they were captured in 1916, the rebels were booed and heckled by Dubliners in the streets. Republican revolution in Ireland was invented by secular Protestants like Tone, Emmett and Fitzgerald, and not by Catholics.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Hey jim interesting comment about the secular protestants, i too found that it was mostly them who started the republican revolution. any books that are evenhanded reading you could recommend?
Funloverdude 2 years ago
Very hard to find these days but I suggest "The Cross of St Patrick" by John Biggs-Davison. "Ireland and the Jacobite Cause" by Eamonn O'Ciardha is a bit heavy but good - the author, although republican nationalist, is at least an honest historian and shows how the loss of the Gaelic allowed Irishmen to be manipulated by English-speaking Protestant secularists.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
So if your neighbour is bad you can be, too? How Catholic is that? Not! Fact is, most Irish Catholics were against murder, Collins and his gang that's why the rebels were booed in the streets by the Catholic Dubliners. Between the Tans and the IRA, both criminal gangs, the innocent Irish were harried and terrorised. If you side with the IRA you are just as bad as the Tans and every bit as bigoted, racist and fanatical. Irish nationalism was started by Anglo-Irish Protestants, not Catholics.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
When you have finished foaming at the mouth you might just realise that Presbyterians ARE Protestants (doh!). Terrorism and murder are not justified merely by calling them "anti-Colonial" or "anti-Imperialist". And adjust your reading glasses, dopey - I never said "your side". I said "if..." conditional. Wakey, wakey.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
I am reading OUR history. My people were Lynches from West Cork so stick that in your pipe and smoke it! And if you bothered to read our history - instead of the tripe that is dished up by Anglo-Irish spin doctors - you would know that the 1798 rebellion was spawned by Anglo-Irish Protestants copying the French Revolution and was put down by Irish Catholics. 80% of the Yeomanry were Catholic. Back to the bottom of the class, gombeen!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
80% of the Yeomanry were Catholic. How many were rebels? Almost none. So who had the majority on their side? Those who were turning the spit were the stupid rebels and revolutionaries who wanted to turn Ireland into a blood bath like France. What kind of lunatic wants that for his country? You? Really?
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
The Squad and the IRA shot Catholics coming out of Church. They also attempted to shoot Catholics in the confessional. The idea that they only shot Brits or Prods is baloney. They were terrorists who sought to terrorise the Catholics as much as anyone else. Get used to it, buddy!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
After the Anglo-Irish Prods like Tone, Fitzgerald and Emmett, came a long line of secularist revolutionaries who favoured terrorism - Stephens, Meagher (chose the revolutionary flag), O'Mahoney etc - all opposed strongly by the Irish bishops. Catholics like O'Connell, Redmond and Dillon were for change constitutionally not by bombs, terrorism or revolution. The stupid bomb-throwers, only delayed home rule. Terrorism was a stupid blunder by crazy, racist ultra-nationalist bigots.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Two Divisions of Irishmen from the South served in that war - unlike the handful of rebels in the GPO. They volunteered - at Redmond's call - not Craig or Carson. Connolly, who was a self-confessed Marxist, and the ICA were in a tiny minority. But for the bomb-throwers, terrorists and rebels, the Home Rule Bill of 1914 would have come 50 years earlier. So said Dillon and Redmond - both Irish Catholic MPs. And you think you know your history, do you? Clearly not!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Then why did Redmond have to go on a huge recruiting drive all over the South? Fact: there was massive volunteering due to Redmond's drive and no conscription. Not only is it a surprise to many that Connolly was a Commie (even you called him a "reactionary" below!) but many are still in denial about it. Redmond and Dillon were right - the Home Rule Bill passed in 1914 and would have been enforced but the idiot rebels once again stuffed the process of Home Rule.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
Face facts: a hundred thousand Irishmen volunteered to fight for that Empire. The myopic view was that of the rebels who were reviled by Dubliners for their stupidity. The bomb-throwers and terrorists had set back the cause of Irish freedom by 50-100 years just because they wanted to make a big noise. The Irish would have had Home Rule under Gladstone but for the fat-headed terrorists. Murder is never the right answer.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
No-one is as despotic as a Marxist terrorist and Connolly is not excepted. Once again your argument consists of no more than vengeance and rendering evil for evil. That is expressly forbidden by the Catholic religion. No reasonable person does it. You are therefore admitting that the nationalist fanatics are unreasonable and anti-Catholic. Exactly my point - thank you for making it for me! Murder is never the answer.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
Yes - let's look at the facts. Something you've not been good at so far. The Protestant English government feared Catholic Ireland, not Irish people. They did not fear Irish Protestants. So they were Protestant bullies but not racists. The racists are the fanatical nationalists who hate on the basis of race. You are right that the Irish people never sought vengeance. But the murderers, gangster and thugs of the IRA - a tiny minority - certainly did. But not for liberty - only for hate.
Jacobitejim 2 years ago
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malachy1847 2 years ago
You are delivering very biased nationalism, sadly, and demonstrating a very weak understanding of our history. This is a nice song but its sentiments are the same: pie-in-the-sky racist, nationalist fantasy. The citizens of Dublin were no longer living in "dark times" - they had every chance of home rule but the bomb-throwers and assassins kept spoiling their chances. Ulster Catholic, Charles Russell, was Lord Chief Justice of England - anything was possible! But the terrorists wrecked it all!
Jacobitejim 2 years ago