yes, 80cathryn, Secretariat's time was 2:24 which few horses have run, period. I was referring to the winning margin. Everyone acts like 31 lengths is the second coming but 25 lengths is just ho hum. Secretariat's times were fast and he was a great horse.
@lloydlorraine I know and agree a 25 length margin is special too. But let's get it right on the time: 2:24 has been untouchable - no horse but one has eclipsed 2:26 ( and only barely) and most are still 4-5 seconds off this pace. the old record used to be 2:26 3/5ths so we are talking only one horse in 28 years has bettered that old record.
besides this is cheap talk anyway. Name another horse who competed in a race at distance and finished running each quarter faster than the last?
one thing for 80cathryn, she states "no one has come close to 31 length margin of victory at Belmont" ah, remember Count Fleet, 25 lengths NOT being ridden out is pretty impressive you have to admit!
@lloydlorraine Kudo's to Count fleet, but what was his time??? 2:28 which translates into a 20 length loss to Sec. Right? Regardless - Count Fleet's standard stood 5 years before another horse, Citation, equaled the time, and the 25 length margin stood for 30 years before Secretariat eclipsed it. Count fleet's performance has stood test of time as only a handful of horses have done better than 2:28 but none have have broken 2:26 and Sec is still untouchable 38 years after the mark was set.
@lloydlorraine MOW himself won the Belmont by 20 lengths as well, nothing to scoff at and he wasn't being hard ridden either. He also wore iron shoes not the aluminum shoes that horses wear now (and Sec wore then).
schardy, i'm preaching to the choir, but the point is to celebrate these amazing animal athletes and what they've managed to accomplish doing NOT what comes naturally, but what humans have asked of them. man o war and secretariat were both miracles, in a world that has far too few.
The reasons why Sec is the greatest: 1) racing pedigree - he accelerated throughout the race - meaning he was pulling away from every known and clocked horse...ever. He beat MOW in mile and a half by 4 seconds - best to best times. 2) no horse in history ran faster each 1/4 mile not once but 3 triple crown times. 3) horse of year twice. 4) racing stride - longer by 22 degrees than MOW. 5) records - still stand 38 years later and no one has come close to 31 length margin of victory at Belmont.
thank you so much for showing these treasures!. when i found them i cried like a baby to see my childhood hero walking, breathing, living on the film. the beautiful song probably got the waterworks going too. what a blessing! my chestnut and white paint yearling filly has his fire, unlike most mellow paints. icing on the cake to find out she's a great-grand-filly of the Great Big Red!!! thank you!
2011 Kentucky Derby (1 1/4 miles) just ran at 2:02.04 under the whip on a fast track. Man o War ran 1 1/4 miles at the Travers in 2:01.4 UNDER RESTRAINT carrying top weight of 129.
Under restraint he would have won the last 5 derby's...
He also ran 1 1/2 in 2:28.4 (Jockey Club) so he would have won 6 of the last 10 Belmonts UNDER A PULL. (he could have won the last 10 if allowed to run).
got a paint filly who is a great grandaughter of big red! she's even sassy. it will be interesting when training time comes around. i named her heavenly holly.
I loved Secretariat, but my *personal* favorite of the 2 was Man O' War. I think it's because he was the FIRST "greatest racehorse" to come along. He died before I was born but I heard of him as a child and so went to the library and got every piece of literature ever written about him. I was engrossed in this horse's amazing heart, his amazing ability and will to win. Secretariat wasn't around yet at that time. So Man O' War was forever indelibly written as *the* great in my child's heart.
Are there any movies on Man O War ? if so could someone please tell me what the name is and where i could find it . my grandmother has been telling me about this race horse and i would like to find a good movie on him to watch with her .
@quadripper74 For some inexcusable reason, no motion picture about the life of the great horse exists. One can only hope that Disney will crank out a 3rd horse movie.
@HarbingerOfBattle Thanks for the reply . I did end up buying a dvd off of the history channel website . Its called win,place,show: The History of Horse Racing. It is about 100 minutes long and there is a real good portion on Man O War . I learned alot from the dvd and would recommend it but it was almost 40 bucks to get it to my house. Man O War was quite the horse thats for sure.
@quadripper74 nope. But if you want to read a well-researched book on MOW read Dorothy Ours book "Legend Like Lightning" it's very good. Walter Farley's book is great as well but it is somewhat fictionalized.
I sometimes wish to go back in time, and create a race with the best horses of the ages: Man O' War, Seabiscuit, War Admiral, Kayak 2, Ruffian, Secretariat...
You can have your Seattle Slews and your Seabiscuits, your Citations and your Secretariats, but if you ask me the greatest racehorse of all time was Man o' war.
@RachelAlexandra101 And you know why. MOW was turned around at the net -- and still almost won. They didn't have starting gates then. Sure you know that though. Not meant as a rude reply.
My point being that ultimately all it is is opinion. And I love that about racing, but it is just speculation. Who is to say what is more important; a winning strike rate or faster time? I have seen many horses with exceptional strike rates that IMO are not world beaters. Conversely I have seen some average horses that can run fast times. Personally my opinion is the best ever USA horse was Dr Fager; he beat better horses than either CY or SEC, ran super times and carried weight. JMO of course!
@schardy80 Thank you. Someone reasonable for a change. Love the Doctor is there a more underrated horse out there? His mile record still stands and he had Damascus to contend with.
I stated on another page Fager would beat Secretariat in a mile race and all the Secretariat groupies had a fit. There are some serious horse-crushes going on on these pages...
@evyn10014 haha I know exactly what you mean. I have often contemplated a Secretariat-Fager match race series; 1 at a sprinting distance, 1 at a mile, 1 at a staying event. It would be 2-1.....I'm just not sure which way it would go! ;)
@schardy80 wouldn't that be a great series? I think Fager wins the sprint easily, 50/50 for the mile, anything longer I guess I'd have to give to Secretariat. So yeah, 2-1 could go either way.
@evyn10014 Yes I believe Dr Fager would probably have been too sharp for Secretariat up to and including a mile. Gotta remember he ran 4 sub 2 minute 10f's and yet had world records for 7 and 8f with crushing weight! He and Sec stand above all others in American racing history IMO; its just one doesn't get the kudos.
@schardy80 If one goes by the only 1 mile race that both Secretariat and Dr. Fager contested, the Gotham Stakes, then one (such as yourself, for instance) cannot make the assumption that the Good Doctor "would have been too sharp for Secretariat" over this distance. Fager's time was beaten by almost two seconds by the big red colt, at 1:33 2/5. Fager then broke the mile WR at age 4 on a different track, with a nice white pacemaker leading the way. cont..
@schardy80 Now, it is an acknowledged fact that racehorses don't really peak until the age of 4, so yes, the versatility Secretariat already displayed (winning in every conceivable fashion - from the inside, giving up ground on the outside, on the lead, from far back, in between horses) by age 3 was unfathomable. Bill Nack and others stated the crazy feats he would have accomplished at 4, the former even mentioning a sub 1:57 1 1/4. Like I wrote to evyn, 60/40 to Sec over a mile.
@evyn10014 Secretariat was known as a speed horse first (his sire was a specialist in this regard), as I'm sure you know. It wasn't until he set a still standing record at the Derby and an untouchable one at the Belmont, that people realized how great he also was at middle distance. So I disagree that the Doc would beat Sec in a sprint (certainly not "easily" - 50/50 at least in Sec's favor) - you must have heard about the latter's legendary workouts at 5/6 f's and the times he clocked. cont..
@rcschumann I don't think any horse that's ever lived would have beaten Secretariat easily at any distance up to 2 miles. But at 1 mile my money's on the Doctor.
We're talking a match race here -- one on one.
I take Fager to a mile, I think they split races at 1 3/16 and 1 1/8, and Secretariat takes over 1 1/4th and on.
@evyn10014 Fager was obviously a specialist at the shorter distances, but I still think Sec would have beaten him at a mile as well. My opinion is based on the 1 mile that they both contested, both at the age of 3 and carrying the same weight - the Gotham, in which Sec clocked almost 2 seconds faster. He never had another chance to race at this distance and never ran at 4. But going by his pedigree (his sire was a supreme miler), his learning ability and his versatility on the track...
@evyn10014 I have to go with Secretariat in a one mile match race with Dr. Fager. Of course, the Doc would have a great chance too, but it's hard to ignore Sec's ability/pedigree described in my previous comment. Sec's workouts at 5/6f's are the stuff of legend, as are his unmatched bursts of speed, even at 2, like at the Hopeful and Garden State, and later at Preakness (the "suicide move" according to Beyer). In the above scenario, Doc would have the lead until last 1/4 and then Sec takes over.
@cf1934 Hey cf1934, what about "Prove Out" is always what I say when I look at Spectacular Bid's racing career and how great he was too. It bothers me Affirmed beat him but they only met once, and Secretariat never beat Prove Out!
@evyn10014 Also, if their Gotham performances are anything to go by (Sec of course beat the Good Doctor by almost two seconds at that one mile race), then Secretariat most definitely would have better than a 50/50 shot at beating Dr. Fager over a mile - more like 60/40. Fager was 4 when he set the mile WR at a different track. Now, is your fantasy race when those two were both at age 4? If so, then Sec wins hands down. If 3 yr old Sec raced Fager at 4, then I stick with my odds above.
@schardy80 So true! Few of the greats ever had to battle it out with a Damascus. Take away the rabbit strategy they used twice, and I believe Fager would have knocked out his hall of fame foe 4 for 4.
@evyn10014 But they DID use the rabbit strategy. It is what it is. Live with it. I can make excuses for Secretariat, and Man o' War, but the DID lose. No excuses man.
What annoys me is when people proclaim that any given horse is the best horse of all time, with an authority in their tone that makes it almost blasphemy to disagree. This is not sitting on the fence, it is the vitriol with which some people say Citation or Sec or Man O' War was the best horse that is just unpalatable to me. Virtually every horse has flaws or question marks over their careers.... one could argue for or against Citation or Secretariat as best ever USA horse quite easily
@schardy80 I wrote on the extremely vitriolic Man o' War vs. Secretariat page that the difference between the best horses is fractions -- and that any could have beaten each other on any given day.
No one replied... People want to believe in a fantasy of unbeatable immortals rather than flesh and blood athletes who have good days and bad and sometimes have to win with heart and class.
Any given day Fager beats Sec, Sec beats Fager, MOW beats CY, CY beats Kelso, Kelso beats MOW, etc etc
@jkmooreelle Remember guys Secretariat passed through the 1 3/8 pole in 2:11 1/5 time in his Belmont win. Man 0' War 2:14 1/5. Is that 3 full seconds faster or about 15 lengths?? It don't hve to be offical to see Secretariat went faster, much faster than Man 0' War. Itsnot that hard to figure out folks. Just think if the race was just a 1 3/8 mile & not a 1 1/2 mile. He was never asked for speed in that race. Turcotte was just on for the ride. & WOW what a ride he got.
@schardy80 Many racing authorities see his 3yo season as close to flawless, except for a sprint loss in which Cy was interfered with. 19 for 20 is about a perfect as you get. Arcaro states that "trainers and people that know" consider that Cy was the best 3 year old whoever lived. His feats at Belmont in the fall convinced many that he was MOW's equal, if not his better....
@denabluechicken Lotta great horses Eddie rode...Nashua ("Nashua didn't beat Swaps..Eddie did!), Kelso, Native Dancer, Whirlaway, probably a whole lot more...but he knew Cy could have been 20 for 20 in 1948 except for a bad ride by himself...beat older horses at one miles on Wednesday, then 1-1/2 miles on Saturday...unchallenged in the Pimlico Special...Cy, who had 8-10 gears he could be eased into at any time in a race...Eddie always thought Cy the best...he was the Master..
@schardy80 BigCY won't tell you But read Bill Chrisitne article Eddie Arcaro 'the master' is dead at 81. In that interview in 1996 on page 2 he told the man CY was the best 3 yr. old he ever rode. Kelso was the best 4 yr. old he ever rode But rated Secretariat the best he ever seen. BigCY is to embarrassed to do so. .Eddie told Turcotte as well. BigCy does not have any respect for Eddie when he quoted that but the upmost respect when he says good things about CY. You can't have it both ways.
On March 14 1973 in that 3/8 workout in .32 3/5 seconds he was eased at the half mile in .44 4/5
From Charles Hatton (March 29, 1973):
...Man o'War won the Withers in 1:35 4/5 and the track record is 1:34 2/5. Now hear this. Secretariat pulled up nine furlongs in 1:48 4/5 and was throttled down to a virtual walk for a mile and a quarter in 2:05. This observer recalls Regret, Exterminator, Sir Barton, Zev, Gallant Fox and Citation winning Kentucky Derbys in slower time.
Not being ashamed is one thing. However, if a horse loses 7 times, it is an issue with regard to his performance legacy. The fact that the races were close, in record time and that he often conceded weight are extremely important. But you have to win more often, at the end of the day. As stated, both Sec and citation were placed in bad situations, Cy for running way to often with his arhtritis issue and Sec for being run viral and post viral.
@1948BigCy It was a tradegy but what can you say or blame someone for buying a horse for 6 million after they seen his 2 year old season. That has never been done in horse racing history. Don't that tell you just what kind of a monster he was? Phil Georgeff would have been jumping off a rock cliff telling about Citation speed figure if he ran like Secretariat. His book would have 700 pages just on that subject. He would have died of an heart attack telling about it.
@1948BigCy What credentials do you have my good man judging Andy Beyer, Steve Christ, Watchmaker or any Daily racing Forum staff? I bet many handicappers made money off Beyer figures. They still use them for some reason even today don't they??
@1948BigCy What were those so called generous offers? Did they match Secretariats or came anywhere close? Must have been after their 3 year old season when those generous offers made.
My money is in the pocket. How must have you lost betting Phil Georgeff method. Need a loan??
@1948BigCy Now you are getting absurd. The BSF revolutionized handicapping. I'll stick with the DSF. Why is it that you say such STUPID things??? Why is it that you downplay facts when they don't go your way??? The BSF is a performance rating, not a guarantee. However, if you bet on a horse like Ghostzapper, based in his BSF's, you would have done well. Stop arguing like a little girl.
@1948BigCy If Noor ran east at Belmont, Churchill Downs or Saratoga his 1 1/4 mile would have looked like 2:00 & change with his tongue hanging out. Cy would have been hard pressed to get under 2:01 especially at Churchiil Downs. Thats a fact. He was mostly a one length victory horse at 2 years of age and was considered by many as a above average horse. No one would have even consider syndicating him after his 2 year old season. Never entered into anyones mind.
@rscarbro100 He is a complete fool and demented. He's a schoolgirl. Would of, should of, could of is his mantra. Now he has Citation winning againsty Noor if the weights are different...when, in fact when Noor ceded weight, he STILL WON. A total asshole. I am finished with him. What a piece of shit.
@bbmtge I believe he will use the excuse he was running on 3 legs in his last race against Noor if everything else fails. That is always his last defense.As a 2 year old he ran a lot of 6 furlongs races never under 1:10 2/5. Never ran a 1 1/8 under 1:48 4/5 and most he won by a length. Never a mile under 1:37 2/5. Won Bluegrass Stakes in 1:49 2/5 track record. Holy Cow could that speedster truck it down the track. .At 3 he did manage a lightning 1:09 2/5 at super fast track Hialeah.Cont.
@1948BigCy I believe Brooks had a bad smell to him why CY didn't like him. I know one thing Steve Brooks simply said we just cannot beat this horse (Noor) These excuses are getting out of hand. If its not liking the jockey its the leg acting up. What in the hell is going on here. Take you pick or all the above?? Maybe Secretariat like Eddie Maple the best. If so its hard telling how many records Secretariat would have broken.(smile)
@rscarbro100 What he leaves out is that after Noor defeated Citation 127 to 126, Citation ran no more at age 5. Noor ran 6 more times carrying as much as 130 and 132 setting track records along the way. BigCy is nothing more than a little bitch.
@bbmtge I really hate to continue the embrarrassment but his 16th straight win was at 6 furlongs in 1:11 2/5 at Santa Anita. Yes, that track that is slighty downhill and where The Bid clocked in a 1:57 4/5 1 1/4 mile. I thought horses quit racing 6 furlongs after they were 2 years old. Hell, Citation was still running them at 4 years of age. Holy Toledo, was he still in his 'Diapers at that age?
@1948BigCy I'm sorry. He was 5 instead of 4 still wearing diapers for a 6 furlong race. Secretariat warm-ups for a race were in his workouts in "MUD' clicking out a 1:09 1/5 not racing barn ponies out there in California in a real race in 1:11 2/5. Holy Cow. Didn' they train him any at all before that race? You bet they did.
That Roman & Bold Gallant must have been a lightning fast horses to lose a 6 furlong race in that time by CY. He must have been in a warm-up race himself.
@1948BigCy If Cy was King then Noor was King of Kings Beating horses like Roman & Bold Gallant no wonder he won everywhere he went. Its like a grown man running aorund the country racing 8 year old kids. WOW isn't that fantastic.
@zXSwordXz And was that Noor that beat that great Citation 4 straight times? Yelp, it sure was. Thanks for the great information. I did not know that.
@bbmtge BigCy leaves out everything that is negative about Citation. Never seen so many excuses for a horse in my life. Its just one right after the other. Its starting to sound like a broken record. Geeee he is killing me.(smile)
@1948BigCy The victory tells who was the better horse. The length he won by tells how much better he was than the other horse you dumbass which wasn't very much was it?? When your talking about ignorance go look at yoursef in the mirror first. The bunch of barn ponies must have been pretty good clicking at CY ass losing by 1 length. Who in the hell going to slow a horse down when one is pushing your ass? A one length victory is a blink of an eye. Ask Willie Shoemaker.
@1948BigCy I was watching the filly Rachel Alexandra run a 6 furlong in 'MUD' before her Woodward race. Clocked in at 1:11 4/5. just easy along. CY did good to run a 1:11 on a fast rack racing other horses at his ass. What a Hoss that Rachel is.
@1948BigCy I guess I am just like the old time track experts at Daily Racing forum BigCY. I own about a dozen stop watches and go down by the track and clock them horses during workouts like they did Secretariat. They were fanatic with time & Secretariat left them amazed in shock. They couldn't figure out what in the hell was going off why a horse so young could do workouts in times that broke records and even broke them 'Pullin Up'. They just shook their heads in disbelief.
@1948BigCy UPI reported July 28th 1973 he prepped a mile for the Whitney Stakes on aug. 4th in 1:34 flat. Beating the previous record set a Saratoga by 4/5 of a second. But Secretariat wasn't through. With Turcotte pulling back on the reins, the big 3-year-old colt, galloped out 1 1/8 miles in 1:47 4-5 to establish another Saratoga mark. Cont.
@1948BigCy . Stupendous ran that distance in 1967 in 1:48 1-5. Secretariat worked in blazing sprint fractions over the first six furlongs, going out in 45 2-5 seconds and clocking 1:09 1-5 for the first six panels. And all this on a track rated "sloppy." I believe Citation fastest mile he ever ran wasat Golden Gate one of the fastest tracks known to man in 1:33 3/5. Just a small point to signify Big Red came within 2 clicks of the clock matching that on a 'Sloppy' track workout.
@1948BigCy But I guess those fast time workouts or his knock your socks off performances in the T.C. and other races did not impress you at all. Your jumping up & down over CY's 16 straight wins over horses that couldn't run a race faster than Big Red could in 'Slop'. No doubt now you gotta think Zenyatta is the greatest thing to come along since 'Swiss Cheese'. Please tell me why she lost her last race. It wasn't the competiton she finally went against was it??
@1948BigCy I just watched that race between Noor & CY again and CY's 1 mile record win at Golden Gate. Both races he was whipped more than Sham in the Derby & Preakness combine I believe. He ran beautifully in both races not missing a stride. Big Red never touched in his workouts and harldy ever in his wins.Remeber, Big Red just galloping along in 'MUD' in 1:34 flat racing only himself. Don't get mad at the facts and hate to ruin your day again.(smile)
@rscarbro100 Sorry...Cy was beaten by an average of a little more than a length (and only that much because of his last race at 5 in which he lost by three)...and an average of less than a second...The Capistrano, one of the greatest races ever, was a photo finish, run in world record time...hate to ruin YOUR day...
@1948BigCy Holy Cow. They must have left everyone crying on the rail They must have been moving like a 'Tremendous Machine'. It must have left Ben Hogan crying on his living room floor in a out of this wolrd time on that Santa Anita race track in a smashing time of 2:52.80. You have just ruined my Christmas Eve party Big CY. I didn't know them hosses could run that fast. It must have been the race of the 'Century'' even though 5 years later St. Vincent ran it in a 'WHAT'. A 2:46.80. Can't be.
@rscarbro100 You are the only twit who won't accept that Cy at 5 was not the Cy at 3. Every other race expert knows it. St. Vincent? Who's he/she? One fast race does not make a horse great...but you'll never accept that cuz it pokes a hole in your theories...
@1948BigCy I will accept the fact if it is a fact that CY at 5 was not the CY at 3. And I have asked you on many, many occassions where are the 'Facts' my good man And everytime you have not offered me 'ONE'. Its just talk, conjecture, or is it they just don't want to admit that Noor was a better horse. It is said in Wikipedia that it was soley because Noor was the fastest horse in 1950. You probably will only find it in Phil Georgeff book.
@1948BigCy And I am not a twit just because I don't believe you or Phil Georgeff. I have reseached more times than you can shake a stick at if CY lost any of his races as a 5 because of the leg. I have never found one article written saying such. Never heard Jimmy Jones making a statement like that. Nor Steve Brooks. I am sure there was a few loses he had that it might have been the reason But none of the races he had with Noor. Like Steve Brooks quoted. 'We just cannot beat this horse'.
@rscarbro100 He had a great year in 1950. 16th strate win, broke a record. But so did Noor. Breaking records all over the place. In most races Cy bore much more weight. At even weights, Cy would have demolished Noor. If he had his 3 yo form, he would have demolished Noor. J. Jones: "I don't mind losing to a horse carrying 120-122 lbs., but losing to a horse [like Noor] carrying 110, is pretty much a gift..." Tells the whole story. W/o Tanforan in 1948, who knows???
@1948BigCy A horse don't break 5 world records as a 5 year old and not being sound. He never broke records like that as a 3 year old. Its a fact taking wiehgt off a horse does not speed him up. Do some research. CY still lost wheh the weight was about even. So that theory is shot to hell. What your really saying is if CY was sound at 5 in which you say he wasn't then he would have ran that 1 1/4 mile just as fast or better than The Bid or that mile faster than the Doctor.. Only in your dreams.
@rscarbro100 You just don't get it, do you?...You have just disputed the reasoning behind handicap racing...the best horses carry more weight to make the races more even...Why Cy lost his last race in 1950 by 3 lengths, with Noor giving him a pound, has baffled horseracing experts...don't make sense, cept that perhaps Cy's ankle was really beginning to bother him...but he always tried...never spit out the bit...BTW, Eddie said Cy would beat Sec in a match race by about a neck...
@1948BigCy When did Eddie say CY would beat him by a neck? From the grave? Get serouis. You know CY would not have a snowball in hell chance of beating Big Red at any distance. Today is Christmas & please don't get my stomach to hurting again from laughing so hard. You could see greatness all over Secretariat in his out of this world races he had that left them crying & in disbelief like no other horse in history. They seen it at 2 when he won 'Horse of the Year'. CY never done that.
@rscarbro100 "And They're Off..." Phil's book about his career as a track announcer...He asked Eddie how he would ride Cy in a match race against Sec...Eddie thought Cy could take him on in his prime...would beat him by a head...pure speculation, but so are your scenarios...Longdon thought Count Fleet could beat Sec too...
@1948BigCy You gotta be kidding me. Eddie Arcaro made it very clear on many occassions Secretariat was the best. You only can find it in Phil Georgeff book. Only in yours or anyones dreams that Citation could take Secretariat at any distance. CY running a 1:59 1/5 Derby, a 1:53 1/5 Preakness And a 1:23 4/5 Belmont. That would be like saying the cow did really jumped over the moon. Truly, I don't think you really believe that. Never heard anything in my life so pathetic.
@rscarbro100 Eddie said Sec was "fast"...he knew the difference between fast and best, which apparently you don't. Riva Ridge ran faster; lots of horses ran 10 furlongs faster; When did Sec run a 2:23.8 Belmont? Did you lower it by yourself.
Nonsense. Like those fantasy races people dream up. Any horse can lose on any given day. You seem to forget that Sec lost 3 times at 3 in 1973. 75%. Arcaro said he never let Cy run full out...all indications are that we don't know how fast he could run...
@1948BigCy Read my post again. Put some glasses on this time. I said Cy running a 2:23 4/5. It is well documented in a letter from Ron Turcotte that Eddie told him that Secretariat was the best no ifs, Ands or butts about it. He told Laurin the same. If you got the guts to read Bill Christine artice you know he told him before he died he rated Secretariat the best. You just cannot accept what he told Christine, It tears your heart apart. You & Manikato are the same.
@1948BigCy Eddie did not say he was fast. He said he was the fastest horse he ever saw. Why don't you post the whole quote? The Cy, MOW, Slew & Phar Lap fans copy off each other. You all use the same excuses. Copy cats in other words, Also called damage control. All of you team up on Secretariat. It don't work. Eddie knew how fast Citation could run or he would have not said Secretariat was the fastest he ever seen. The old time track experts knew Secretariat was faster than CY as well.
@1948BigCy In the Marlboro Cup Secretariat went through the 1 3/16 mile post in 1:51 3/5 flat. Thats 4/5 faster than R.R. world record time. Secretariat did this pulling up, He tied The Bid 1:57 4/5 pulling up.Taking the long route in doing so. Track not so fast as Whitney Tower wrote about, Another week from peak form. Andy Beyer said he was not as sharp in that race like he was in his T.C. wins. Only had 4 workouts in 2 weeks. Usually had 5 or more, Was hand ridden not asked for Max. speed.
@1948BigCy The great Bill Finley was there the day Easy Goer ran his 1:32 2/5 Gotham race. He said the track was extraordinary fast. Easy Goer trainer said he doubted the 1:32 2/5 time because the track was so fast But his fans will not accept it. Your the same with Secretariat. Big Red beat MOW world record time pulling up for the 1 3/8 mile in 2:11 1/5 & Swaps world record for the 1 5/8 in 1:37 3/5 & done it again in the MOW race in 1:37 4/5.
@1948BigCy Hehehe. I know you get mad when the 'Truth' hits you square in the face. MOW times can easy be compared with Secretariat. Thats why Charles Hatton & many old time track experts knew he was better than MOW. Another one of your excuses. Every horseman knows winning 15 straight races don't make a horse the best. If so Zenyatta and Peppers Pride would be the greatest. Colin never lost a race. Was he the best winning 14 straight? CY 16 straight & still not voted the best.Hehehe
@rscarbro100 he, he...Sec could only win 4 straight...pathetic...Cy did so much more than win 15 strate at 3...things that Sec could only dream about...Again, it is futile speculation, and foolish, who would win one race...is the world series ONE game? I don't know why I still reply to your garbage posts...Adieu doo-doo
@1948BigCy You can call it pathetic him winning horse of the year as a 2 year old And his out of this world T.C. wins, the Arlington, M.C., MOW race, and that Canadian Int. all you want. Not even Citation could do the things quite like Secretariat & you know it. We know who the foolish idiot is. You know very well if he was sound & fit he would not have lost one race. Ask all the old time track experts. Most will tell you the same. Just to many of them who seen MOW & Big Red 2 say the same.
@1948BigCy Every time horse racing comes up its always Secretariat the name mention. Its alway Man 0' War & Secretariat who's best. Not Citation. Zenyatta did things that CY never done. Was she better? You won't answer. Was Colin better than CY? you won't answer. Was Cy better than Peppers Pride? You won't answer. You theroies are shot to hell. We all know the horses that ran their tongues out trying to catch CY were total shit.No excuse for their 'Times Ran'. They all were 'Turtles'.
@1948BigCy The same with MOW. We all know the competition he ran against. They all were 'Turtles'. WOW, congratulations to MOW & Citation for winning many races against 'Turtles'. Its all on record for everyone to see. It don't take a great horse to beat 'Turtles' just a very , very good horse. If you could only see past your nose you could see it or quit being so 'Bias' as we all know you are. Your still in school The best thing that could ever happen to you is quit reading Phil Georgeff. Hehe
@rscarbro100 Buzfuz, Delegate, Spy Song, Natchez, Saggy, Kitchen Police, Miss Grillo, Colosal, Fervent, Pellicle, Rampart, Coaltown, Beauchef, See-Tee-See...record holders all...Cy beat some of them twice, older horses in 1948...And Phil knows a lot more about horse racing than you do...
@1948BigCy Armed broke records too but that was before 1948. Did these horses break records in 1948 or were they washed up like Armed by the time CY ran against them? Give the year, track record good buddy. Tell the whole story. Were these horses at their peak? I take Holly Hudges, Charles Hatton, Teddy Cox, Mrs. Hamburger & all the other experts that told Eddie Arcaro that seen both that said Secretariat was the best. Arcaro said Secretariat was the best he seen on many occassions.
@1948BigCy And Charles Hatton, Teddy Cox, Mike Castle, Holly Hudges and Rose Hamburger who seen them all since MOW said Secretariat was the best They knew more in one finger than Phil Georgeff knew in his entire body. Georgeff was just a 'Bullfrog' big mouth track announcer. Gallant Sir beat Phar Lap record. another one time hit who's record was 'Bullshit' just like CY competition. It was a record in only the 4th Auga Calentine race ever held,
@rscarbro100 Hatton and the others are in the definite minority...he had a love affair with Sec like yours....Holly Hughes proclaimed Sec the greatest ever even before the Belmont, which is Sec's major claim to fame...he had already lost the Wood...ridiculous...Sec was at the right place at the right time...TV age, young, post war generation...believe what you want to believe...
@1948BigCy Holly sure did. It didn't take the Belmont for him to know who was best. Same with Hatton Guess Hudges had a love affair wth him too. Itsbetween Man 0' War & Secretariat. Same with Eddie. Eddie said everyone he talked too said Secretariat. Hatton, Eddie & the rest were in the majority & you know it. Give us some doucmented statements of how many said MOW or CY was best. Why don't you never see Secretariat vs. CY here on these videos or MOW vs. CY?
@rscarbro100 Both are legendary...However, neither did the things Cy did at 3...or even come close...that's why Eddie calls him the best 3 yo ever...FACT...19 for 20...MOW only ran 11 times and Sec 12...won 4 races in Feb., two against older horses, while Sec slept in his stable...won the Derby on 3 days rest...etc...Doing whatever was asked of him, on every kind of track, across the nation, no horse passed him, and he caught every one ahead of him...7/7 against older horses...c'mon...
@1948BigCy They watch Secretariat videos because they know he is the best horse. They enjoy his great performances. Read their post. They see no other horse run quite like him. Watching Citation is like watching any normal horse run. Nothing spectacular about it. Secetariat was so good he left them crying on the rail. You watch CY races & wonder who in the hell is this horse. He runs just like the normal horses do. Their was nothing normal about Secretariat. He was immortal.
@rscarbro100 Immortal means you never die...Sec's dead...he ran the fastest TC by 2 seconds and change...big wow...The TV age lets us see all of Sec's glorious wins and immortal defeats...Unfortunately, we only have Cy's TC wins, and not even full videos. There are 16 more wins in 1948 that are unable to be savored;-( (Sec had the same number of wins...in his life). If we only had those videos...THEN, you'd see a REAL thoroughbred!!!
@1948BigCy You better believe his T.C. wins were a big WOW. None in history ever came close for that Derby or Belmont races. He could have broken them by a bigger margin. Never asked in thoses races for top speed. Charles Hatton had a love affair with him because he waited all his life to find a perfect horse & he found him in Secretariat Not MOW or CY. These were his own words. Many said he was the perfect horse. Never hear any horseman call CY that. I wonder 'Why'.
@1948BigCy All you want to talk about he was judged on his Belmont win. Thats not so & you know it. He was so great at 2 he was synicated for over 6M. The Derby Record still holds. All knew he could have ran all 3 T.C. races faster. Just 1/5 off Damascus track reocrd & DRF talks about how easy that race was. First time on turf a record that still holds at Belmont. That out of this world M.C. race pulling up in 1:57 4/5 not to mention that 2:26 3/5 Woodard in slop & not in shape in doing that.
@rscarbro100 In the Derby, Sham ran with a bashed in mouth and Sec had a hard time overtaking him in the stretch; doesn't look to me like he was eased up...to someone like you who thinks absolute time and records are everything, I suppose 3/5 of a second is monumental...the rest of us know better...I am impressed by his MOW and turf races...very nice...
@1948BigCy That Canadain Int'l ran in mud up to your ass just 4/5 off the record with ease. His workout was the faster 5/8 in Canadian history. CY never seen the day he could perform like Big Red did & all the great horsemen knows it. I know of no race in anyones writings were CY ran such great performances like Secretariat did. Maybe its a Godsend we didn't see any of those slow races he had. They would have been like any other horse race just like the ones seen here on youtube. Much of nothing
@rscarbro100 Oh stop...after Sec's Belmont, Woody Stephens compared it to Cy's incredible performances at Belmont in Fall 1948: 1 mile Sysonby, 2 mile Jockey CGC, 1-5/8 mile Empire State Gold Cup, all against older horses, all won eased up...I think Woody was caught up in the excitement...30 lengths on losers seems to have wowed him...Cy's achievement was infinitely greater...
@1948BigCy Eddie call him the best 3 year old he ever rode.not the best 3 yr. old ever. You lie again & everyone can see it when they read Bill Christine article. Your the one that is living in a 'Fantasy' world. I prove all my quotes. Yours is just talk without proof. Your a fake that speaks with forked tongue. Again he beat horses of no substance in 1948. I have the DRF charts right here in front of me. Its no hard to ask a horse to race other horses that are 'Turtles' Holy Cow.
@rscarbro100 Who the hell did Sec beat? Mediocre 3 yo colts. Even Sham had a middling record. He beat some good older horses, true, but was only 3/5 beating older horses...Eddie said different things at different times...once he said that Kelso could kick Cy's butt. I'm impressed not with Eddie's absolute estimation of him, but his description of his riding him...speed at any point in a race...like gunning a Cadillac...the sonofagun just took off with me!!
@1948BigCy Sham for one was better at 3 than anything CY ran against. Coaltown was so slow when he ran against CY a stop watch was not needed. Linda's Chief & Forego was better than any horse CY ran as well. C/T establish his worth once he mature at 4 & would have beaten CY several times if they ran against each other in 1949. Our Native was as good as any horse CY ran against. Stop The Music & Champagne Charlie faster than any horse CY ran against. Now do you want to get to the older horses?
@rscarbro100 Coaltown was elected Sprinter of the Year in 1948...Forego was good at 3, but would not blossom until he was 4...stop with the BS...speed means nothing until horses actually face each other...that's why fantasy races are so silly...you can't even understand that, which shows you know nothing about horseracing...
@1948BigCy Shecky Greene was selected sprinter of the year in 1973. So what.. What other horse could have beaten Coaltown as sprinter of the year with that sorry competition in 1948? Big Red beat Shecky about 12 or more lengths when they met. CY beat Coaltown by 3 1/2. You only know as much as what Phil Georgeff fed into your mind & nothing else. I wonder if there was ever videos of CY races would we have seen the big great burst of speed or those unbelievable fractions like Big Red had?
@rscarbro100 Cy beat Coaltown by 3.5 lengths eased up because Coaltown was a better horse than Shecky Greene...or don't you understand that? They ran on a very sloppy track, not a fast track like in 1973...finally the Derby is not conducive to great speed; too many horses...there are many more faster 1.25 milers...Cy was covered by a traveling press corps which witnessed and wrote about those bursts of speed...discouraged the other horses in the race....
@1948BigCy This 'Eased' up crap don't cut it. Every horse racing fan use that excuse. Secretariat was always 'Eased' in most of his victories. CY couldn't run much faster if they had a 'Fire Cracker' to light up his ass.Many horses ran faster in 'MUD' than CY. He was not very fast in 'MUD' & was very lucky his competiton weren't either except Bewitch & Saggy. Remember that was "MUD' big Red that ran a 1:34 flat in workout' with 'EASE' for a mile. I watched CY record 1:33 4.5.Cont.
@1948BigCy How many times he was slashed with the whip in that race? Just little what I saw was many on a super fast track. He was not running on 3 legs either. So don't hand me that bunch of crap. That horse was running great & was walking the same after the race. Never came up lame. He wa solid & must say one beautiful horse. I did not realize he was that pretty. I call it as I see it no matter who the horse is. That leg might have been hurtin him some but had no effect on his performance.
@1948BigCy Coaltown was only a 2 time champion in 1949. 1. Handicap of the yr. And 2. Amercian C0-Champion of the yr. Forego was a 3 time champion in 1974. 1.Amercian champion sprint horse. 2. American Champion older male horse of the yr. And 3. Horse of the year. He was not Co-Champ of anything. Clearly Forgeo was much better horse than Coaltown at any year. He ran against better competiton than Coaltown. Owners knew how great Big Red was & never wanted Forego to ever look at his ass anymore.
@rscarbro100 Coaltown was small...strictly a sprinter...can't be compared to Sec or Forego...Forego was a gelding...He carried 132 lbs. and ran 10f as fast as Sec...This a site dedicated to MOW...why don't you leave here and go join your fellow Secolators at the dozens of sites dedicated to him...we are all sick of hearing your nonsense...
@1948BigCy I came here & seen were you talk is all about Citation & all your lies. I call you out on them & know your crying like a baby once again. Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Your sick of the truth & your the guy that post all the nonsense bullshit here. I have proved it with facts & can back them up. You post just talk or lip service as it is also called. Practice what you preach. Another name is 'hypocrite'.
@rscarbro100 I wouldn't be posting anything if you weren't at MOW's site posting more rubbish about Sec. I don't understand why Carly has erased your postings and banned you from posting here. Again, this site is about Man o War, not Secretariat. So why don't you take your sorry ass to a site where you can find fellow worshippers?
@1948BigCy You are digging yourself a bigger hole everything you post. Your just making things much worse than you can ever imagine. Many are really learning what CY ran against & just how slow he was compared to the other greats. Those tall tale stories about CY & MOW are just to hard for anyone to believe. I guess you believe the story about MOW having nightmares 2 weeks after he lost to Upset. CY tall tales are just as bad as that one & then one someone wrote MOW carried weights on his legs.
@rscarbro100 MOW's loss was a freak occurrence...no starting gates, etc. By the time he got pointed in the right direction, the horses were far away...still he only lost by a length...Cy's loss at 3 was in a qualifying sprint in which he was interfered with...Arcaro always took the blame...How about when Sec was spooked when The Bid walked by his stable?
@1948BigCy I didn't know he was spooked when The Bid walked by. The Bid did walk by his stable one time & Big Red thought he wanted to race. I think it was a 1 1/2 mile race. They said he went plumb crazy trying to get out of the barn. They would not let him in fear showing another 1 1/2 mile loss for the Bid.(smile) Now this one is no tale & is well documented. All horses at Claiborne farms, Slew, Affirmed, The Bid all waited for Big Red to eat first.Hehehe
@1948BigCy I know all about MOW loss to Upset. I seen the start of that race. He was turned & as soon as the other horses took off MOW was quickly turned and off. He was no more than 6 lengths behind. You think you trying to pull a good one on me but I got a turd in very pocket for you big boy. You can't get no bullshit by me. Day always took the blame for Easy Goer races he lost. Turcotte never took the blame. It was totally due to health problems or lack of training for Secretariat.
@rscarbro100 If it were raced today, with light horseshoes, a mechanized starting gate, etc., MOW would have won easily. Eased up...without a sweat...Yeah Sec always has a million excuses...an excusaholic...perfect horse, invincible, the horse that God made, immortal...except when he had a booger up his nose...
@1948BigCy There was only 'ONE' reason for each race he lost & they were well documented not many stories make up like CY losses. Secretariat was checked by a Dr. before the Wood & seen the 'Abscess'. A Dr. checked him before the Whitney and found a fever, Source:William Nack book. Guess he was telling lies according to you. He explained in detail on video all about that 'Abscess in that interview with Roger Elbert. How much did MOW shoes slow him down Mr. expert?? I am dying to know.
@1948BigCy Gee BigCY I did not know you found a booger up Big Red nose. Did you tell everyone what was up his ass when you checked that part? What other part of his body did you fondle with? Seem like you check out horses pretty darn well. Did you check him out behind the barn privately or did you have a witness? Now tell us what you found out with CY or was Phil Georgeff the one out behind the barn with him?
@1948BigCy Its just like Shoemaker excuse with the Bid when he lost to Affirmed. William Nack said S.S. would have beaten Easy Goer in the Preakness if they went another trip around the track. Which one was the truth. Arcaro took the blame, Told to lose or Jones did not want him abused before the Derby? I heard some many of them I'm not quite sure which one is correct or if any of them. Jones or none of them would ever admit CY lost to a better horse that day in "MUD".
@rscarbro100 Jones told Eddie not to go to the whip, abuse Cy...it was an $8,000 pot, why risk injury on a really sloppy track when most people were giving the Derby to Cy...Eddies first ride on Cy...Cy wanted to run from the post, but Eddie drew him back...broke his cardinal rule "Don't go outside of 2''...a tiring horse drifted out...Saggy was a top notch sprinter and loved the mud!...Cy was beaten by racing "luck"...nobody took the loss seriously, like MOW's loss to Upset...
@1948BigCy CY was a 'ONE' year one time hit where he ran horses that had a sub-par year in 1948. He was very lucky to run against competiton like this. If Zenyatta never ran in the Breeders Cup those sissys would be screaming he was better than MOW, Secretaitat & CY all put together. You must look at the horse they ran especially winning many victories in a row. The don't come easy no matter how good you all. There is some 'LUCK' that comes with it. CY had plenty of it in 1948.
@rscarbro100 I accept that Secretariat is arguably the best American horse of all time. Arcaro is more qualified than perhaps anybody to make the call. In the end it comes down to the weighting you place on the various criteria applicable when assessing the merit of a racehorse. By the way, I would be interested to hear where you rank Zenyatta. She polarises people like few horses have in history.
@schardy80 To tell you the honest truth I never have given much thought about Zenyatta. No doubt she thrilled the horse racing world as any ever had from her exciting come from behind wins. Speed & stamia is the two best qualities of any race horse. She only had proven her stamia at a 1 1/4 mile distance. As you know the Belmont is most crueling test of champions for 3 year olds. IMO competition is a very big factor for reasons horses win. I suspect the experts will rank her high.Cont.
@schardy80 another criteria of a great race horse is he or she can win on different tracks in different conditions. Running in mud or slop.Swaps & Riva Rdige were two great horses on fast tracks but could not stand up in mud. Weight is another factor. Of course Sec. never got the chance to prove that but from his very strong performaces in his 1 1/2 mile And 1 5/8 mile gave a great indication he could. Turcotte ran him once in a workout carring 141 lbs. Ran just as fluid as he did carring 126.
@1948BigCy Your the one living in a 'Fanasty' world. More watch Secretariat videos here much more than CY videos,Secretariat is #1 in all polls except Bloodhorse & we all know 1 panelist listed him 14th best & that was the only reason MOW was voted #1.Secretariat Belmont, 829,262 hits, Derby 554,832 hits & Preakness 618,959. CY 22,998 hits one where Eddie is talking, Cy Derby 21,122 hits And the other CY video 4,536 showing 1 of his 1951 races, Now who is in the minority you Wizard of OZ.
@rscarbro100 That proves he has more hits, that's all....more people listen to pop music than listen to jazz or classical, much more...does that mean that Lady Gaga, Eminem, et al produce better music? Popularity means little...I saw one list that had Sec first, Barbaro second, etc...I have a feeling most of Sec's fans are of this caliber of thinking...They have no knowledge of what happened before they were born...
@rscarbro100 That proves he has more hits, that's all....more people listen to pop music than listen to jazz or classical, much more...does that mean that Lady Gaga, Eminem, et al produce better music? Popularity means little...I saw one list that had Sec first, Barbaro second, etc...I have a feeling most of Sec's fans are of this caliber of thinking...They have no knowledge of what happened before they were born...Pity
never saw Man o’ War run but everybody I speak to who saw them both tell
me that Secretariat was the best, the greatest thoroughbred of all
times." Eddie would always say: "That Big Red "so and so" you rode was the
best no ifs or buts about it!" End of quote. Now you tell me Phil Georgeff knew more about CY than Eddie.You have the 'Facts' but jackasses don't accept them.
@1948BigCy Your right. any horse can lose on any given day. Secretariat never ran 'Fanasty Races'. Ron Turcotte never let Secretariat run full out in his victories. I don't forget Big Red lost 3 times at 3. Hope you didn't forget CY lost 13 before heading to the barn. Wouldn't you think Secretariat beating Angel light 3 times before the Wood & then kicking his ass by over 10 or more lengths in the Derby tells you he had something wrong with him in the Wood? Cont.
@1948BigCy Don't you think a horse that ran a 1:34 flat mile in 'MUD' a week before the Whitney & lost to Onion who won in 1:49 4/5 tells you something was wrong with him? Steve Haskins did & kicked his ass by 12 lengths in their rematch. Not only that Onion jockey said it was a 'Fluke'. Allen Jerkins said we caught him on the other end of a bady day. He's right. The bad day was because he was running a 103 degree fever. Those 3 losses is all you got & you try to use them for your advantage.
@1948BigCy Of course any common sense man don't need any of the experts to tell us why he lost we can figure that out easy ourselves. Same with the Woodard race where is is well documented he had zero hard workouts before that last minute entry. He was blowing very hard after that race where he was not blowing any in his Belmont win. Simply because he was out of shape in the Woodward. All the old time tracks experts knew it as well. They wrote about it & still he ran it in 2:26 3/5. WOW
@1948BigCy Cy never in any of his races during his career gave any indication he was that fast & could have come close to running distances like Secretariat did. Turcotte quoted before the 1977 Belmont Stakes when asked about that historical race that if he had really gotten into Secretariat at the last quarter pole it would be hard to tell what he could have done. Red Smith said if asked by Turcotte he would have broken the world record which was done on turf by Fiddle Isle in 2:23 flat.
lol. I think people would give a lot more credit to Man O' War if they made a movie of him xD
feathertail02 3 weeks ago
yes, 80cathryn, Secretariat's time was 2:24 which few horses have run, period. I was referring to the winning margin. Everyone acts like 31 lengths is the second coming but 25 lengths is just ho hum. Secretariat's times were fast and he was a great horse.
lloydlorraine 2 months ago
@lloydlorraine I know and agree a 25 length margin is special too. But let's get it right on the time: 2:24 has been untouchable - no horse but one has eclipsed 2:26 ( and only barely) and most are still 4-5 seconds off this pace. the old record used to be 2:26 3/5ths so we are talking only one horse in 28 years has bettered that old record.
besides this is cheap talk anyway. Name another horse who competed in a race at distance and finished running each quarter faster than the last?
80cathryn 2 months ago
one thing for 80cathryn, she states "no one has come close to 31 length margin of victory at Belmont" ah, remember Count Fleet, 25 lengths NOT being ridden out is pretty impressive you have to admit!
lloydlorraine 2 months ago
@lloydlorraine Kudo's to Count fleet, but what was his time??? 2:28 which translates into a 20 length loss to Sec. Right? Regardless - Count Fleet's standard stood 5 years before another horse, Citation, equaled the time, and the 25 length margin stood for 30 years before Secretariat eclipsed it. Count fleet's performance has stood test of time as only a handful of horses have done better than 2:28 but none have have broken 2:26 and Sec is still untouchable 38 years after the mark was set.
80cathryn 2 months ago
@lloydlorraine MOW himself won the Belmont by 20 lengths as well, nothing to scoff at and he wasn't being hard ridden either. He also wore iron shoes not the aluminum shoes that horses wear now (and Sec wore then).
denabluechicken 1 week ago
schardy, i'm preaching to the choir, but the point is to celebrate these amazing animal athletes and what they've managed to accomplish doing NOT what comes naturally, but what humans have asked of them. man o war and secretariat were both miracles, in a world that has far too few.
shilodance1st 4 months ago
The reasons why Sec is the greatest: 1) racing pedigree - he accelerated throughout the race - meaning he was pulling away from every known and clocked horse...ever. He beat MOW in mile and a half by 4 seconds - best to best times. 2) no horse in history ran faster each 1/4 mile not once but 3 triple crown times. 3) horse of year twice. 4) racing stride - longer by 22 degrees than MOW. 5) records - still stand 38 years later and no one has come close to 31 length margin of victory at Belmont.
80cathryn 5 months ago
i'm a rock and blues fan, but this song is soooo beautiful. this made me cry-i'm a sap for the great Big Red. thank you for revealing these for me.
greatbigbubby 6 months ago
why is this clip in a Manowar (band) playlist?!?!
snopphaka 6 months ago in playlist Manowar 8
i watch these several times a week, thank you
SuperChrispena 7 months ago
thank you so much for showing these treasures!. when i found them i cried like a baby to see my childhood hero walking, breathing, living on the film. the beautiful song probably got the waterworks going too. what a blessing! my chestnut and white paint yearling filly has his fire, unlike most mellow paints. icing on the cake to find out she's a great-grand-filly of the Great Big Red!!! thank you!
SuperChrispena 7 months ago
I enjoyed this video :) Our stallion is Royale King Leo Bars (Leo), a decendent of Man O War. Our Leo loves to run!
KathyMann1000 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How fast was Man o War?
2011 Kentucky Derby (1 1/4 miles) just ran at 2:02.04 under the whip on a fast track. Man o War ran 1 1/4 miles at the Travers in 2:01.4 UNDER RESTRAINT carrying top weight of 129.
Under restraint he would have won the last 5 derby's...
He also ran 1 1/2 in 2:28.4 (Jockey Club) so he would have won 6 of the last 10 Belmonts UNDER A PULL. (he could have won the last 10 if allowed to run).
Greatest horse ever...
evyn10014 8 months ago
got a paint filly who is a great grandaughter of big red! she's even sassy. it will be interesting when training time comes around. i named her heavenly holly.
chrisvpena 8 months ago
THE G.O.A.T.
evyn10014 9 months ago
I loved Secretariat, but my *personal* favorite of the 2 was Man O' War. I think it's because he was the FIRST "greatest racehorse" to come along. He died before I was born but I heard of him as a child and so went to the library and got every piece of literature ever written about him. I was engrossed in this horse's amazing heart, his amazing ability and will to win. Secretariat wasn't around yet at that time. So Man O' War was forever indelibly written as *the* great in my child's heart.
10com40cal 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
He´s The Best!!!!!
TheKatinka97 10 months ago
Heßs The Best!!!!!
TheKatinka97 10 months ago
Are there any movies on Man O War ? if so could someone please tell me what the name is and where i could find it . my grandmother has been telling me about this race horse and i would like to find a good movie on him to watch with her .
quadripper74 10 months ago
@quadripper74 For some inexcusable reason, no motion picture about the life of the great horse exists. One can only hope that Disney will crank out a 3rd horse movie.
HarbingerOfBattle 9 months ago
@HarbingerOfBattle Thanks for the reply . I did end up buying a dvd off of the history channel website . Its called win,place,show: The History of Horse Racing. It is about 100 minutes long and there is a real good portion on Man O War . I learned alot from the dvd and would recommend it but it was almost 40 bucks to get it to my house. Man O War was quite the horse thats for sure.
quadripper74 9 months ago
@quadripper74 He was NOT quite the horse. He was The Most'est Horse That Ever Was!
HarbingerOfBattle 9 months ago
@quadripper74 nope. But if you want to read a well-researched book on MOW read Dorothy Ours book "Legend Like Lightning" it's very good. Walter Farley's book is great as well but it is somewhat fictionalized.
evyn10014 9 months ago
People forget so often that he was handicapped so much and he still won and set record
feathertail02 11 months ago
I sometimes wish to go back in time, and create a race with the best horses of the ages: Man O' War, Seabiscuit, War Admiral, Kayak 2, Ruffian, Secretariat...
ManOWarsFire 1 year ago
Comment removed
HarbingerOfBattle 1 year ago
@ManOWarsFire
.... Nijinsky, Brigadier Gerard, Shergar, Mill Reef, Dancing Brave..........
ianzanshin 11 months ago
@ManOWarsFire Nijinsky, Brigadier Gerard, Dancing Brave, Shergar, Mill Reef.....
ianzanshin 11 months ago
You can have your Seattle Slews and your Seabiscuits, your Citations and your Secretariats, but if you ask me the greatest racehorse of all time was Man o' war.
No horse can ever best him.
HarbingerOfBattle 1 year ago
@HarbingerOfBattle well, one horse did beat him... Jus' sayin...
RachelAlexandra101 9 months ago
@RachelAlexandra101 True, however Man o' war defeated the same horse on many other occasions.
HarbingerOfBattle 9 months ago
@RachelAlexandra101 And you know why. MOW was turned around at the net -- and still almost won. They didn't have starting gates then. Sure you know that though. Not meant as a rude reply.
evyn10014 9 months ago
@evyn10014 ya ik that and i kno it wasnt ment to be rude. He was awesome
RachelAlexandra101 9 months ago
My point being that ultimately all it is is opinion. And I love that about racing, but it is just speculation. Who is to say what is more important; a winning strike rate or faster time? I have seen many horses with exceptional strike rates that IMO are not world beaters. Conversely I have seen some average horses that can run fast times. Personally my opinion is the best ever USA horse was Dr Fager; he beat better horses than either CY or SEC, ran super times and carried weight. JMO of course!
schardy80 1 year ago
@schardy80 Thank you. Someone reasonable for a change. Love the Doctor is there a more underrated horse out there? His mile record still stands and he had Damascus to contend with.
I stated on another page Fager would beat Secretariat in a mile race and all the Secretariat groupies had a fit. There are some serious horse-crushes going on on these pages...
evyn10014 9 months ago
@evyn10014 haha I know exactly what you mean. I have often contemplated a Secretariat-Fager match race series; 1 at a sprinting distance, 1 at a mile, 1 at a staying event. It would be 2-1.....I'm just not sure which way it would go! ;)
schardy80 9 months ago
@schardy80 wouldn't that be a great series? I think Fager wins the sprint easily, 50/50 for the mile, anything longer I guess I'd have to give to Secretariat. So yeah, 2-1 could go either way.
appreciate your comments on the other pages.
evyn10014 9 months ago
@evyn10014 Yes I believe Dr Fager would probably have been too sharp for Secretariat up to and including a mile. Gotta remember he ran 4 sub 2 minute 10f's and yet had world records for 7 and 8f with crushing weight! He and Sec stand above all others in American racing history IMO; its just one doesn't get the kudos.
schardy80 9 months ago
@schardy80 If one goes by the only 1 mile race that both Secretariat and Dr. Fager contested, the Gotham Stakes, then one (such as yourself, for instance) cannot make the assumption that the Good Doctor "would have been too sharp for Secretariat" over this distance. Fager's time was beaten by almost two seconds by the big red colt, at 1:33 2/5. Fager then broke the mile WR at age 4 on a different track, with a nice white pacemaker leading the way. cont..
rcschumann 7 months ago
@schardy80 Now, it is an acknowledged fact that racehorses don't really peak until the age of 4, so yes, the versatility Secretariat already displayed (winning in every conceivable fashion - from the inside, giving up ground on the outside, on the lead, from far back, in between horses) by age 3 was unfathomable. Bill Nack and others stated the crazy feats he would have accomplished at 4, the former even mentioning a sub 1:57 1 1/4. Like I wrote to evyn, 60/40 to Sec over a mile.
rcschumann 7 months ago
@evyn10014 Secretariat was known as a speed horse first (his sire was a specialist in this regard), as I'm sure you know. It wasn't until he set a still standing record at the Derby and an untouchable one at the Belmont, that people realized how great he also was at middle distance. So I disagree that the Doc would beat Sec in a sprint (certainly not "easily" - 50/50 at least in Sec's favor) - you must have heard about the latter's legendary workouts at 5/6 f's and the times he clocked. cont..
rcschumann 7 months ago
@rcschumann I don't think any horse that's ever lived would have beaten Secretariat easily at any distance up to 2 miles. But at 1 mile my money's on the Doctor.
We're talking a match race here -- one on one.
I take Fager to a mile, I think they split races at 1 3/16 and 1 1/8, and Secretariat takes over 1 1/4th and on.
evyn10014 7 months ago
@evyn10014 Fager was obviously a specialist at the shorter distances, but I still think Sec would have beaten him at a mile as well. My opinion is based on the 1 mile that they both contested, both at the age of 3 and carrying the same weight - the Gotham, in which Sec clocked almost 2 seconds faster. He never had another chance to race at this distance and never ran at 4. But going by his pedigree (his sire was a supreme miler), his learning ability and his versatility on the track...
rcschumann 7 months ago
@rcschumann would be one of the best matches of all time...
evyn10014 7 months ago
@evyn10014 those two Big Red's are probably dueling it out in the clouds right now!!
greatbigbubby 5 months ago in playlist Famous Races
@evyn10014 I have to go with Secretariat in a one mile match race with Dr. Fager. Of course, the Doc would have a great chance too, but it's hard to ignore Sec's ability/pedigree described in my previous comment. Sec's workouts at 5/6f's are the stuff of legend, as are his unmatched bursts of speed, even at 2, like at the Hopeful and Garden State, and later at Preakness (the "suicide move" according to Beyer). In the above scenario, Doc would have the lead until last 1/4 and then Sec takes over.
rcschumann 7 months ago
@evyn10014 How about Prove Out?
cf1934 5 months ago
@cf1934 Hey cf1934, what about "Prove Out" is always what I say when I look at Spectacular Bid's racing career and how great he was too. It bothers me Affirmed beat him but they only met once, and Secretariat never beat Prove Out!
lloydlorraine 2 months ago
@evyn10014 Also, if their Gotham performances are anything to go by (Sec of course beat the Good Doctor by almost two seconds at that one mile race), then Secretariat most definitely would have better than a 50/50 shot at beating Dr. Fager over a mile - more like 60/40. Fager was 4 when he set the mile WR at a different track. Now, is your fantasy race when those two were both at age 4? If so, then Sec wins hands down. If 3 yr old Sec raced Fager at 4, then I stick with my odds above.
rcschumann 7 months ago
@schardy80 So true! Few of the greats ever had to battle it out with a Damascus. Take away the rabbit strategy they used twice, and I believe Fager would have knocked out his hall of fame foe 4 for 4.
evyn10014 7 months ago
@evyn10014 But they DID use the rabbit strategy. It is what it is. Live with it. I can make excuses for Secretariat, and Man o' War, but the DID lose. No excuses man.
TBird5790 6 months ago
What annoys me is when people proclaim that any given horse is the best horse of all time, with an authority in their tone that makes it almost blasphemy to disagree. This is not sitting on the fence, it is the vitriol with which some people say Citation or Sec or Man O' War was the best horse that is just unpalatable to me. Virtually every horse has flaws or question marks over their careers.... one could argue for or against Citation or Secretariat as best ever USA horse quite easily
schardy80 1 year ago
@schardy80 I wrote on the extremely vitriolic Man o' War vs. Secretariat page that the difference between the best horses is fractions -- and that any could have beaten each other on any given day.
No one replied... People want to believe in a fantasy of unbeatable immortals rather than flesh and blood athletes who have good days and bad and sometimes have to win with heart and class.
Any given day Fager beats Sec, Sec beats Fager, MOW beats CY, CY beats Kelso, Kelso beats MOW, etc etc
evyn10014 7 months ago
Remember guys Man O'War held an the record on dirt for 1 3/8 that stood for 71 years until it was eclipsed in 1991.
jkmooreelle 1 year ago
@jkmooreelle Remember guys Secretariat passed through the 1 3/8 pole in 2:11 1/5 time in his Belmont win. Man 0' War 2:14 1/5. Is that 3 full seconds faster or about 15 lengths?? It don't hve to be offical to see Secretariat went faster, much faster than Man 0' War. Itsnot that hard to figure out folks. Just think if the race was just a 1 3/8 mile & not a 1 1/2 mile. He was never asked for speed in that race. Turcotte was just on for the ride. & WOW what a ride he got.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
I wonder if Citation retired at the end of his 3yo campaign, would he be rated above Sec? His record was breathtaking up until that point.
schardy80 1 year ago
@schardy80 Many racing authorities see his 3yo season as close to flawless, except for a sprint loss in which Cy was interfered with. 19 for 20 is about a perfect as you get. Arcaro states that "trainers and people that know" consider that Cy was the best 3 year old whoever lived. His feats at Belmont in the fall convinced many that he was MOW's equal, if not his better....
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Arcaro himself said Native Dancer was the greatest horse he ever rode....lol there are so many greats :)
denabluechicken 1 week ago
@denabluechicken Lotta great horses Eddie rode...Nashua ("Nashua didn't beat Swaps..Eddie did!), Kelso, Native Dancer, Whirlaway, probably a whole lot more...but he knew Cy could have been 20 for 20 in 1948 except for a bad ride by himself...beat older horses at one miles on Wednesday, then 1-1/2 miles on Saturday...unchallenged in the Pimlico Special...Cy, who had 8-10 gears he could be eased into at any time in a race...Eddie always thought Cy the best...he was the Master..
1948BigCy 1 week ago
@schardy80 BigCY won't tell you But read Bill Chrisitne article Eddie Arcaro 'the master' is dead at 81. In that interview in 1996 on page 2 he told the man CY was the best 3 yr. old he ever rode. Kelso was the best 4 yr. old he ever rode But rated Secretariat the best he ever seen. BigCY is to embarrassed to do so. .Eddie told Turcotte as well. BigCy does not have any respect for Eddie when he quoted that but the upmost respect when he says good things about CY. You can't have it both ways.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
On March 14 1973 in that 3/8 workout in .32 3/5 seconds he was eased at the half mile in .44 4/5
From Charles Hatton (March 29, 1973):
...Man o'War won the Withers in 1:35 4/5 and the track record is 1:34 2/5. Now hear this. Secretariat pulled up nine furlongs in 1:48 4/5 and was throttled down to a virtual walk for a mile and a quarter in 2:05. This observer recalls Regret, Exterminator, Sir Barton, Zev, Gallant Fox and Citation winning Kentucky Derbys in slower time.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Not being ashamed is one thing. However, if a horse loses 7 times, it is an issue with regard to his performance legacy. The fact that the races were close, in record time and that he often conceded weight are extremely important. But you have to win more often, at the end of the day. As stated, both Sec and citation were placed in bad situations, Cy for running way to often with his arhtritis issue and Sec for being run viral and post viral.
bbmtge 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy It was a tradegy but what can you say or blame someone for buying a horse for 6 million after they seen his 2 year old season. That has never been done in horse racing history. Don't that tell you just what kind of a monster he was? Phil Georgeff would have been jumping off a rock cliff telling about Citation speed figure if he ran like Secretariat. His book would have 700 pages just on that subject. He would have died of an heart attack telling about it.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy What credentials do you have my good man judging Andy Beyer, Steve Christ, Watchmaker or any Daily racing Forum staff? I bet many handicappers made money off Beyer figures. They still use them for some reason even today don't they??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy What were those so called generous offers? Did they match Secretariats or came anywhere close? Must have been after their 3 year old season when those generous offers made.
My money is in the pocket. How must have you lost betting Phil Georgeff method. Need a loan??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Now you are getting absurd. The BSF revolutionized handicapping. I'll stick with the DSF. Why is it that you say such STUPID things??? Why is it that you downplay facts when they don't go your way??? The BSF is a performance rating, not a guarantee. However, if you bet on a horse like Ghostzapper, based in his BSF's, you would have done well. Stop arguing like a little girl.
bbmtge 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy If Noor ran east at Belmont, Churchill Downs or Saratoga his 1 1/4 mile would have looked like 2:00 & change with his tongue hanging out. Cy would have been hard pressed to get under 2:01 especially at Churchiil Downs. Thats a fact. He was mostly a one length victory horse at 2 years of age and was considered by many as a above average horse. No one would have even consider syndicating him after his 2 year old season. Never entered into anyones mind.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 He is a complete fool and demented. He's a schoolgirl. Would of, should of, could of is his mantra. Now he has Citation winning againsty Noor if the weights are different...when, in fact when Noor ceded weight, he STILL WON. A total asshole. I am finished with him. What a piece of shit.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge I believe he will use the excuse he was running on 3 legs in his last race against Noor if everything else fails. That is always his last defense.As a 2 year old he ran a lot of 6 furlongs races never under 1:10 2/5. Never ran a 1 1/8 under 1:48 4/5 and most he won by a length. Never a mile under 1:37 2/5. Won Bluegrass Stakes in 1:49 2/5 track record. Holy Cow could that speedster truck it down the track. .At 3 he did manage a lightning 1:09 2/5 at super fast track Hialeah.Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I believe Brooks had a bad smell to him why CY didn't like him. I know one thing Steve Brooks simply said we just cannot beat this horse (Noor) These excuses are getting out of hand. If its not liking the jockey its the leg acting up. What in the hell is going on here. Take you pick or all the above?? Maybe Secretariat like Eddie Maple the best. If so its hard telling how many records Secretariat would have broken.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 What he leaves out is that after Noor defeated Citation 127 to 126, Citation ran no more at age 5. Noor ran 6 more times carrying as much as 130 and 132 setting track records along the way. BigCy is nothing more than a little bitch.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge I really hate to continue the embrarrassment but his 16th straight win was at 6 furlongs in 1:11 2/5 at Santa Anita. Yes, that track that is slighty downhill and where The Bid clocked in a 1:57 4/5 1 1/4 mile. I thought horses quit racing 6 furlongs after they were 2 years old. Hell, Citation was still running them at 4 years of age. Holy Toledo, was he still in his 'Diapers at that age?
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I'm sorry. He was 5 instead of 4 still wearing diapers for a 6 furlong race. Secretariat warm-ups for a race were in his workouts in "MUD' clicking out a 1:09 1/5 not racing barn ponies out there in California in a real race in 1:11 2/5. Holy Cow. Didn' they train him any at all before that race? You bet they did.
That Roman & Bold Gallant must have been a lightning fast horses to lose a 6 furlong race in that time by CY. He must have been in a warm-up race himself.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy If Cy was King then Noor was King of Kings Beating horses like Roman & Bold Gallant no wonder he won everywhere he went. Its like a grown man running aorund the country racing 8 year old kids. WOW isn't that fantastic.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 and Hil Prince(Secretariat half brother out of Princequillo) beat Noor.
zXSwordXz 1 year ago
@zXSwordXz And was that Noor that beat that great Citation 4 straight times? Yelp, it sure was. Thanks for the great information. I did not know that.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@bbmtge BigCy leaves out everything that is negative about Citation. Never seen so many excuses for a horse in my life. Its just one right after the other. Its starting to sound like a broken record. Geeee he is killing me.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy The victory tells who was the better horse. The length he won by tells how much better he was than the other horse you dumbass which wasn't very much was it?? When your talking about ignorance go look at yoursef in the mirror first. The bunch of barn ponies must have been pretty good clicking at CY ass losing by 1 length. Who in the hell going to slow a horse down when one is pushing your ass? A one length victory is a blink of an eye. Ask Willie Shoemaker.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I was watching the filly Rachel Alexandra run a 6 furlong in 'MUD' before her Woodward race. Clocked in at 1:11 4/5. just easy along. CY did good to run a 1:11 on a fast rack racing other horses at his ass. What a Hoss that Rachel is.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Comment removed
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I guess I am just like the old time track experts at Daily Racing forum BigCY. I own about a dozen stop watches and go down by the track and clock them horses during workouts like they did Secretariat. They were fanatic with time & Secretariat left them amazed in shock. They couldn't figure out what in the hell was going off why a horse so young could do workouts in times that broke records and even broke them 'Pullin Up'. They just shook their heads in disbelief.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy UPI reported July 28th 1973 he prepped a mile for the Whitney Stakes on aug. 4th in 1:34 flat. Beating the previous record set a Saratoga by 4/5 of a second. But Secretariat wasn't through. With Turcotte pulling back on the reins, the big 3-year-old colt, galloped out 1 1/8 miles in 1:47 4-5 to establish another Saratoga mark. Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy . Stupendous ran that distance in 1967 in 1:48 1-5. Secretariat worked in blazing sprint fractions over the first six furlongs, going out in 45 2-5 seconds and clocking 1:09 1-5 for the first six panels. And all this on a track rated "sloppy." I believe Citation fastest mile he ever ran wasat Golden Gate one of the fastest tracks known to man in 1:33 3/5. Just a small point to signify Big Red came within 2 clicks of the clock matching that on a 'Sloppy' track workout.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy But I guess those fast time workouts or his knock your socks off performances in the T.C. and other races did not impress you at all. Your jumping up & down over CY's 16 straight wins over horses that couldn't run a race faster than Big Red could in 'Slop'. No doubt now you gotta think Zenyatta is the greatest thing to come along since 'Swiss Cheese'. Please tell me why she lost her last race. It wasn't the competiton she finally went against was it??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I just watched that race between Noor & CY again and CY's 1 mile record win at Golden Gate. Both races he was whipped more than Sham in the Derby & Preakness combine I believe. He ran beautifully in both races not missing a stride. Big Red never touched in his workouts and harldy ever in his wins.Remeber, Big Red just galloping along in 'MUD' in 1:34 flat racing only himself. Don't get mad at the facts and hate to ruin your day again.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Sorry...Cy was beaten by an average of a little more than a length (and only that much because of his last race at 5 in which he lost by three)...and an average of less than a second...The Capistrano, one of the greatest races ever, was a photo finish, run in world record time...hate to ruin YOUR day...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Holy Cow. They must have left everyone crying on the rail They must have been moving like a 'Tremendous Machine'. It must have left Ben Hogan crying on his living room floor in a out of this wolrd time on that Santa Anita race track in a smashing time of 2:52.80. You have just ruined my Christmas Eve party Big CY. I didn't know them hosses could run that fast. It must have been the race of the 'Century'' even though 5 years later St. Vincent ran it in a 'WHAT'. A 2:46.80. Can't be.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 You are the only twit who won't accept that Cy at 5 was not the Cy at 3. Every other race expert knows it. St. Vincent? Who's he/she? One fast race does not make a horse great...but you'll never accept that cuz it pokes a hole in your theories...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I will accept the fact if it is a fact that CY at 5 was not the CY at 3. And I have asked you on many, many occassions where are the 'Facts' my good man And everytime you have not offered me 'ONE'. Its just talk, conjecture, or is it they just don't want to admit that Noor was a better horse. It is said in Wikipedia that it was soley because Noor was the fastest horse in 1950. You probably will only find it in Phil Georgeff book.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy And I am not a twit just because I don't believe you or Phil Georgeff. I have reseached more times than you can shake a stick at if CY lost any of his races as a 5 because of the leg. I have never found one article written saying such. Never heard Jimmy Jones making a statement like that. Nor Steve Brooks. I am sure there was a few loses he had that it might have been the reason But none of the races he had with Noor. Like Steve Brooks quoted. 'We just cannot beat this horse'.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 He had a great year in 1950. 16th strate win, broke a record. But so did Noor. Breaking records all over the place. In most races Cy bore much more weight. At even weights, Cy would have demolished Noor. If he had his 3 yo form, he would have demolished Noor. J. Jones: "I don't mind losing to a horse carrying 120-122 lbs., but losing to a horse [like Noor] carrying 110, is pretty much a gift..." Tells the whole story. W/o Tanforan in 1948, who knows???
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy A horse don't break 5 world records as a 5 year old and not being sound. He never broke records like that as a 3 year old. Its a fact taking wiehgt off a horse does not speed him up. Do some research. CY still lost wheh the weight was about even. So that theory is shot to hell. What your really saying is if CY was sound at 5 in which you say he wasn't then he would have ran that 1 1/4 mile just as fast or better than The Bid or that mile faster than the Doctor.. Only in your dreams.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 You just don't get it, do you?...You have just disputed the reasoning behind handicap racing...the best horses carry more weight to make the races more even...Why Cy lost his last race in 1950 by 3 lengths, with Noor giving him a pound, has baffled horseracing experts...don't make sense, cept that perhaps Cy's ankle was really beginning to bother him...but he always tried...never spit out the bit...BTW, Eddie said Cy would beat Sec in a match race by about a neck...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy When did Eddie say CY would beat him by a neck? From the grave? Get serouis. You know CY would not have a snowball in hell chance of beating Big Red at any distance. Today is Christmas & please don't get my stomach to hurting again from laughing so hard. You could see greatness all over Secretariat in his out of this world races he had that left them crying & in disbelief like no other horse in history. They seen it at 2 when he won 'Horse of the Year'. CY never done that.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 "And They're Off..." Phil's book about his career as a track announcer...He asked Eddie how he would ride Cy in a match race against Sec...Eddie thought Cy could take him on in his prime...would beat him by a head...pure speculation, but so are your scenarios...Longdon thought Count Fleet could beat Sec too...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy You gotta be kidding me. Eddie Arcaro made it very clear on many occassions Secretariat was the best. You only can find it in Phil Georgeff book. Only in yours or anyones dreams that Citation could take Secretariat at any distance. CY running a 1:59 1/5 Derby, a 1:53 1/5 Preakness And a 1:23 4/5 Belmont. That would be like saying the cow did really jumped over the moon. Truly, I don't think you really believe that. Never heard anything in my life so pathetic.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Eddie said Sec was "fast"...he knew the difference between fast and best, which apparently you don't. Riva Ridge ran faster; lots of horses ran 10 furlongs faster; When did Sec run a 2:23.8 Belmont? Did you lower it by yourself.
Nonsense. Like those fantasy races people dream up. Any horse can lose on any given day. You seem to forget that Sec lost 3 times at 3 in 1973. 75%. Arcaro said he never let Cy run full out...all indications are that we don't know how fast he could run...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Read my post again. Put some glasses on this time. I said Cy running a 2:23 4/5. It is well documented in a letter from Ron Turcotte that Eddie told him that Secretariat was the best no ifs, Ands or butts about it. He told Laurin the same. If you got the guts to read Bill Christine artice you know he told him before he died he rated Secretariat the best. You just cannot accept what he told Christine, It tears your heart apart. You & Manikato are the same.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Eddie did not say he was fast. He said he was the fastest horse he ever saw. Why don't you post the whole quote? The Cy, MOW, Slew & Phar Lap fans copy off each other. You all use the same excuses. Copy cats in other words, Also called damage control. All of you team up on Secretariat. It don't work. Eddie knew how fast Citation could run or he would have not said Secretariat was the fastest he ever seen. The old time track experts knew Secretariat was faster than CY as well.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy In the Marlboro Cup Secretariat went through the 1 3/16 mile post in 1:51 3/5 flat. Thats 4/5 faster than R.R. world record time. Secretariat did this pulling up, He tied The Bid 1:57 4/5 pulling up.Taking the long route in doing so. Track not so fast as Whitney Tower wrote about, Another week from peak form. Andy Beyer said he was not as sharp in that race like he was in his T.C. wins. Only had 4 workouts in 2 weeks. Usually had 5 or more, Was hand ridden not asked for Max. speed.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy The great Bill Finley was there the day Easy Goer ran his 1:32 2/5 Gotham race. He said the track was extraordinary fast. Easy Goer trainer said he doubted the 1:32 2/5 time because the track was so fast But his fans will not accept it. Your the same with Secretariat. Big Red beat MOW world record time pulling up for the 1 3/8 mile in 2:11 1/5 & Swaps world record for the 1 5/8 in 1:37 3/5 & done it again in the MOW race in 1:37 4/5.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 You are such a dunce...MOWs times can't be compared to Sec's...any horseman knows this...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Hehehe. I know you get mad when the 'Truth' hits you square in the face. MOW times can easy be compared with Secretariat. Thats why Charles Hatton & many old time track experts knew he was better than MOW. Another one of your excuses. Every horseman knows winning 15 straight races don't make a horse the best. If so Zenyatta and Peppers Pride would be the greatest. Colin never lost a race. Was he the best winning 14 straight? CY 16 straight & still not voted the best.Hehehe
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 he, he...Sec could only win 4 straight...pathetic...Cy did so much more than win 15 strate at 3...things that Sec could only dream about...Again, it is futile speculation, and foolish, who would win one race...is the world series ONE game? I don't know why I still reply to your garbage posts...Adieu doo-doo
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy You can call it pathetic him winning horse of the year as a 2 year old And his out of this world T.C. wins, the Arlington, M.C., MOW race, and that Canadian Int. all you want. Not even Citation could do the things quite like Secretariat & you know it. We know who the foolish idiot is. You know very well if he was sound & fit he would not have lost one race. Ask all the old time track experts. Most will tell you the same. Just to many of them who seen MOW & Big Red 2 say the same.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Every time horse racing comes up its always Secretariat the name mention. Its alway Man 0' War & Secretariat who's best. Not Citation. Zenyatta did things that CY never done. Was she better? You won't answer. Was Colin better than CY? you won't answer. Was Cy better than Peppers Pride? You won't answer. You theroies are shot to hell. We all know the horses that ran their tongues out trying to catch CY were total shit.No excuse for their 'Times Ran'. They all were 'Turtles'.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy The same with MOW. We all know the competition he ran against. They all were 'Turtles'. WOW, congratulations to MOW & Citation for winning many races against 'Turtles'. Its all on record for everyone to see. It don't take a great horse to beat 'Turtles' just a very , very good horse. If you could only see past your nose you could see it or quit being so 'Bias' as we all know you are. Your still in school The best thing that could ever happen to you is quit reading Phil Georgeff. Hehe
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Buzfuz, Delegate, Spy Song, Natchez, Saggy, Kitchen Police, Miss Grillo, Colosal, Fervent, Pellicle, Rampart, Coaltown, Beauchef, See-Tee-See...record holders all...Cy beat some of them twice, older horses in 1948...And Phil knows a lot more about horse racing than you do...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Armed broke records too but that was before 1948. Did these horses break records in 1948 or were they washed up like Armed by the time CY ran against them? Give the year, track record good buddy. Tell the whole story. Were these horses at their peak? I take Holly Hudges, Charles Hatton, Teddy Cox, Mrs. Hamburger & all the other experts that told Eddie Arcaro that seen both that said Secretariat was the best. Arcaro said Secretariat was the best he seen on many occassions.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy And Charles Hatton, Teddy Cox, Mike Castle, Holly Hudges and Rose Hamburger who seen them all since MOW said Secretariat was the best They knew more in one finger than Phil Georgeff knew in his entire body. Georgeff was just a 'Bullfrog' big mouth track announcer. Gallant Sir beat Phar Lap record. another one time hit who's record was 'Bullshit' just like CY competition. It was a record in only the 4th Auga Calentine race ever held,
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Hatton and the others are in the definite minority...he had a love affair with Sec like yours....Holly Hughes proclaimed Sec the greatest ever even before the Belmont, which is Sec's major claim to fame...he had already lost the Wood...ridiculous...Sec was at the right place at the right time...TV age, young, post war generation...believe what you want to believe...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Holly sure did. It didn't take the Belmont for him to know who was best. Same with Hatton Guess Hudges had a love affair wth him too. Itsbetween Man 0' War & Secretariat. Same with Eddie. Eddie said everyone he talked too said Secretariat. Hatton, Eddie & the rest were in the majority & you know it. Give us some doucmented statements of how many said MOW or CY was best. Why don't you never see Secretariat vs. CY here on these videos or MOW vs. CY?
Sorry CY is out of the picture.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Both are legendary...However, neither did the things Cy did at 3...or even come close...that's why Eddie calls him the best 3 yo ever...FACT...19 for 20...MOW only ran 11 times and Sec 12...won 4 races in Feb., two against older horses, while Sec slept in his stable...won the Derby on 3 days rest...etc...Doing whatever was asked of him, on every kind of track, across the nation, no horse passed him, and he caught every one ahead of him...7/7 against older horses...c'mon...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy They watch Secretariat videos because they know he is the best horse. They enjoy his great performances. Read their post. They see no other horse run quite like him. Watching Citation is like watching any normal horse run. Nothing spectacular about it. Secetariat was so good he left them crying on the rail. You watch CY races & wonder who in the hell is this horse. He runs just like the normal horses do. Their was nothing normal about Secretariat. He was immortal.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Immortal means you never die...Sec's dead...he ran the fastest TC by 2 seconds and change...big wow...The TV age lets us see all of Sec's glorious wins and immortal defeats...Unfortunately, we only have Cy's TC wins, and not even full videos. There are 16 more wins in 1948 that are unable to be savored;-( (Sec had the same number of wins...in his life). If we only had those videos...THEN, you'd see a REAL thoroughbred!!!
1948BigCy 1 year ago
Comment removed
rscarbro100 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1948BigCy You better believe his T.C. wins were a big WOW. None in history ever came close for that Derby or Belmont races. He could have broken them by a bigger margin. Never asked in thoses races for top speed. Charles Hatton had a love affair with him because he waited all his life to find a perfect horse & he found him in Secretariat Not MOW or CY. These were his own words. Many said he was the perfect horse. Never hear any horseman call CY that. I wonder 'Why'.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy All you want to talk about he was judged on his Belmont win. Thats not so & you know it. He was so great at 2 he was synicated for over 6M. The Derby Record still holds. All knew he could have ran all 3 T.C. races faster. Just 1/5 off Damascus track reocrd & DRF talks about how easy that race was. First time on turf a record that still holds at Belmont. That out of this world M.C. race pulling up in 1:57 4/5 not to mention that 2:26 3/5 Woodard in slop & not in shape in doing that.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 In the Derby, Sham ran with a bashed in mouth and Sec had a hard time overtaking him in the stretch; doesn't look to me like he was eased up...to someone like you who thinks absolute time and records are everything, I suppose 3/5 of a second is monumental...the rest of us know better...I am impressed by his MOW and turf races...very nice...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy That Canadain Int'l ran in mud up to your ass just 4/5 off the record with ease. His workout was the faster 5/8 in Canadian history. CY never seen the day he could perform like Big Red did & all the great horsemen knows it. I know of no race in anyones writings were CY ran such great performances like Secretariat did. Maybe its a Godsend we didn't see any of those slow races he had. They would have been like any other horse race just like the ones seen here on youtube. Much of nothing
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Oh stop...after Sec's Belmont, Woody Stephens compared it to Cy's incredible performances at Belmont in Fall 1948: 1 mile Sysonby, 2 mile Jockey CGC, 1-5/8 mile Empire State Gold Cup, all against older horses, all won eased up...I think Woody was caught up in the excitement...30 lengths on losers seems to have wowed him...Cy's achievement was infinitely greater...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Eddie call him the best 3 year old he ever rode.not the best 3 yr. old ever. You lie again & everyone can see it when they read Bill Christine article. Your the one that is living in a 'Fantasy' world. I prove all my quotes. Yours is just talk without proof. Your a fake that speaks with forked tongue. Again he beat horses of no substance in 1948. I have the DRF charts right here in front of me. Its no hard to ask a horse to race other horses that are 'Turtles' Holy Cow.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Who the hell did Sec beat? Mediocre 3 yo colts. Even Sham had a middling record. He beat some good older horses, true, but was only 3/5 beating older horses...Eddie said different things at different times...once he said that Kelso could kick Cy's butt. I'm impressed not with Eddie's absolute estimation of him, but his description of his riding him...speed at any point in a race...like gunning a Cadillac...the sonofagun just took off with me!!
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Sham for one was better at 3 than anything CY ran against. Coaltown was so slow when he ran against CY a stop watch was not needed. Linda's Chief & Forego was better than any horse CY ran as well. C/T establish his worth once he mature at 4 & would have beaten CY several times if they ran against each other in 1949. Our Native was as good as any horse CY ran against. Stop The Music & Champagne Charlie faster than any horse CY ran against. Now do you want to get to the older horses?
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Coaltown was elected Sprinter of the Year in 1948...Forego was good at 3, but would not blossom until he was 4...stop with the BS...speed means nothing until horses actually face each other...that's why fantasy races are so silly...you can't even understand that, which shows you know nothing about horseracing...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Shecky Greene was selected sprinter of the year in 1973. So what.. What other horse could have beaten Coaltown as sprinter of the year with that sorry competition in 1948? Big Red beat Shecky about 12 or more lengths when they met. CY beat Coaltown by 3 1/2. You only know as much as what Phil Georgeff fed into your mind & nothing else. I wonder if there was ever videos of CY races would we have seen the big great burst of speed or those unbelievable fractions like Big Red had?
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Cy beat Coaltown by 3.5 lengths eased up because Coaltown was a better horse than Shecky Greene...or don't you understand that? They ran on a very sloppy track, not a fast track like in 1973...finally the Derby is not conducive to great speed; too many horses...there are many more faster 1.25 milers...Cy was covered by a traveling press corps which witnessed and wrote about those bursts of speed...discouraged the other horses in the race....
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy This 'Eased' up crap don't cut it. Every horse racing fan use that excuse. Secretariat was always 'Eased' in most of his victories. CY couldn't run much faster if they had a 'Fire Cracker' to light up his ass.Many horses ran faster in 'MUD' than CY. He was not very fast in 'MUD' & was very lucky his competiton weren't either except Bewitch & Saggy. Remember that was "MUD' big Red that ran a 1:34 flat in workout' with 'EASE' for a mile. I watched CY record 1:33 4.5.Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy How many times he was slashed with the whip in that race? Just little what I saw was many on a super fast track. He was not running on 3 legs either. So don't hand me that bunch of crap. That horse was running great & was walking the same after the race. Never came up lame. He wa solid & must say one beautiful horse. I did not realize he was that pretty. I call it as I see it no matter who the horse is. That leg might have been hurtin him some but had no effect on his performance.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Coaltown was only a 2 time champion in 1949. 1. Handicap of the yr. And 2. Amercian C0-Champion of the yr. Forego was a 3 time champion in 1974. 1.Amercian champion sprint horse. 2. American Champion older male horse of the yr. And 3. Horse of the year. He was not Co-Champ of anything. Clearly Forgeo was much better horse than Coaltown at any year. He ran against better competiton than Coaltown. Owners knew how great Big Red was & never wanted Forego to ever look at his ass anymore.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Coaltown was small...strictly a sprinter...can't be compared to Sec or Forego...Forego was a gelding...He carried 132 lbs. and ran 10f as fast as Sec...This a site dedicated to MOW...why don't you leave here and go join your fellow Secolators at the dozens of sites dedicated to him...we are all sick of hearing your nonsense...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I came here & seen were you talk is all about Citation & all your lies. I call you out on them & know your crying like a baby once again. Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Your sick of the truth & your the guy that post all the nonsense bullshit here. I have proved it with facts & can back them up. You post just talk or lip service as it is also called. Practice what you preach. Another name is 'hypocrite'.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 I wouldn't be posting anything if you weren't at MOW's site posting more rubbish about Sec. I don't understand why Carly has erased your postings and banned you from posting here. Again, this site is about Man o War, not Secretariat. So why don't you take your sorry ass to a site where you can find fellow worshippers?
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy You are digging yourself a bigger hole everything you post. Your just making things much worse than you can ever imagine. Many are really learning what CY ran against & just how slow he was compared to the other greats. Those tall tale stories about CY & MOW are just to hard for anyone to believe. I guess you believe the story about MOW having nightmares 2 weeks after he lost to Upset. CY tall tales are just as bad as that one & then one someone wrote MOW carried weights on his legs.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 MOW's loss was a freak occurrence...no starting gates, etc. By the time he got pointed in the right direction, the horses were far away...still he only lost by a length...Cy's loss at 3 was in a qualifying sprint in which he was interfered with...Arcaro always took the blame...How about when Sec was spooked when The Bid walked by his stable?
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I didn't know he was spooked when The Bid walked by. The Bid did walk by his stable one time & Big Red thought he wanted to race. I think it was a 1 1/2 mile race. They said he went plumb crazy trying to get out of the barn. They would not let him in fear showing another 1 1/2 mile loss for the Bid.(smile) Now this one is no tale & is well documented. All horses at Claiborne farms, Slew, Affirmed, The Bid all waited for Big Red to eat first.Hehehe
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy I know all about MOW loss to Upset. I seen the start of that race. He was turned & as soon as the other horses took off MOW was quickly turned and off. He was no more than 6 lengths behind. You think you trying to pull a good one on me but I got a turd in very pocket for you big boy. You can't get no bullshit by me. Day always took the blame for Easy Goer races he lost. Turcotte never took the blame. It was totally due to health problems or lack of training for Secretariat.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 If it were raced today, with light horseshoes, a mechanized starting gate, etc., MOW would have won easily. Eased up...without a sweat...Yeah Sec always has a million excuses...an excusaholic...perfect horse, invincible, the horse that God made, immortal...except when he had a booger up his nose...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy There was only 'ONE' reason for each race he lost & they were well documented not many stories make up like CY losses. Secretariat was checked by a Dr. before the Wood & seen the 'Abscess'. A Dr. checked him before the Whitney and found a fever, Source:William Nack book. Guess he was telling lies according to you. He explained in detail on video all about that 'Abscess in that interview with Roger Elbert. How much did MOW shoes slow him down Mr. expert?? I am dying to know.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Gee BigCY I did not know you found a booger up Big Red nose. Did you tell everyone what was up his ass when you checked that part? What other part of his body did you fondle with? Seem like you check out horses pretty darn well. Did you check him out behind the barn privately or did you have a witness? Now tell us what you found out with CY or was Phil Georgeff the one out behind the barn with him?
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Its just like Shoemaker excuse with the Bid when he lost to Affirmed. William Nack said S.S. would have beaten Easy Goer in the Preakness if they went another trip around the track. Which one was the truth. Arcaro took the blame, Told to lose or Jones did not want him abused before the Derby? I heard some many of them I'm not quite sure which one is correct or if any of them. Jones or none of them would ever admit CY lost to a better horse that day in "MUD".
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Jones told Eddie not to go to the whip, abuse Cy...it was an $8,000 pot, why risk injury on a really sloppy track when most people were giving the Derby to Cy...Eddies first ride on Cy...Cy wanted to run from the post, but Eddie drew him back...broke his cardinal rule "Don't go outside of 2''...a tiring horse drifted out...Saggy was a top notch sprinter and loved the mud!...Cy was beaten by racing "luck"...nobody took the loss seriously, like MOW's loss to Upset...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy CY was a 'ONE' year one time hit where he ran horses that had a sub-par year in 1948. He was very lucky to run against competiton like this. If Zenyatta never ran in the Breeders Cup those sissys would be screaming he was better than MOW, Secretaitat & CY all put together. You must look at the horse they ran especially winning many victories in a row. The don't come easy no matter how good you all. There is some 'LUCK' that comes with it. CY had plenty of it in 1948.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 I accept that Secretariat is arguably the best American horse of all time. Arcaro is more qualified than perhaps anybody to make the call. In the end it comes down to the weighting you place on the various criteria applicable when assessing the merit of a racehorse. By the way, I would be interested to hear where you rank Zenyatta. She polarises people like few horses have in history.
schardy80 1 year ago
@schardy80 To tell you the honest truth I never have given much thought about Zenyatta. No doubt she thrilled the horse racing world as any ever had from her exciting come from behind wins. Speed & stamia is the two best qualities of any race horse. She only had proven her stamia at a 1 1/4 mile distance. As you know the Belmont is most crueling test of champions for 3 year olds. IMO competition is a very big factor for reasons horses win. I suspect the experts will rank her high.Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@schardy80 another criteria of a great race horse is he or she can win on different tracks in different conditions. Running in mud or slop.Swaps & Riva Rdige were two great horses on fast tracks but could not stand up in mud. Weight is another factor. Of course Sec. never got the chance to prove that but from his very strong performaces in his 1 1/2 mile And 1 5/8 mile gave a great indication he could. Turcotte ran him once in a workout carring 141 lbs. Ran just as fluid as he did carring 126.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Nobody agrees with you...you obviously live in your own fantasyland...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Your the one living in a 'Fanasty' world. More watch Secretariat videos here much more than CY videos,Secretariat is #1 in all polls except Bloodhorse & we all know 1 panelist listed him 14th best & that was the only reason MOW was voted #1.Secretariat Belmont, 829,262 hits, Derby 554,832 hits & Preakness 618,959. CY 22,998 hits one where Eddie is talking, Cy Derby 21,122 hits And the other CY video 4,536 showing 1 of his 1951 races, Now who is in the minority you Wizard of OZ.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 That proves he has more hits, that's all....more people listen to pop music than listen to jazz or classical, much more...does that mean that Lady Gaga, Eminem, et al produce better music? Popularity means little...I saw one list that had Sec first, Barbaro second, etc...I have a feeling most of Sec's fans are of this caliber of thinking...They have no knowledge of what happened before they were born...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 That proves he has more hits, that's all....more people listen to pop music than listen to jazz or classical, much more...does that mean that Lady Gaga, Eminem, et al produce better music? Popularity means little...I saw one list that had Sec first, Barbaro second, etc...I have a feeling most of Sec's fans are of this caliber of thinking...They have no knowledge of what happened before they were born...Pity
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Eddie's quote told by Ron Turcotte:
Ronnie you rode the best I ever saw. I
never saw Man o’ War run but everybody I speak to who saw them both tell
me that Secretariat was the best, the greatest thoroughbred of all
times." Eddie would always say: "That Big Red "so and so" you rode was the
best no ifs or buts about it!" End of quote. Now you tell me Phil Georgeff knew more about CY than Eddie.You have the 'Facts' but jackasses don't accept them.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Your right. any horse can lose on any given day. Secretariat never ran 'Fanasty Races'. Ron Turcotte never let Secretariat run full out in his victories. I don't forget Big Red lost 3 times at 3. Hope you didn't forget CY lost 13 before heading to the barn. Wouldn't you think Secretariat beating Angel light 3 times before the Wood & then kicking his ass by over 10 or more lengths in the Derby tells you he had something wrong with him in the Wood? Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Don't you think a horse that ran a 1:34 flat mile in 'MUD' a week before the Whitney & lost to Onion who won in 1:49 4/5 tells you something was wrong with him? Steve Haskins did & kicked his ass by 12 lengths in their rematch. Not only that Onion jockey said it was a 'Fluke'. Allen Jerkins said we caught him on the other end of a bady day. He's right. The bad day was because he was running a 103 degree fever. Those 3 losses is all you got & you try to use them for your advantage.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Of course any common sense man don't need any of the experts to tell us why he lost we can figure that out easy ourselves. Same with the Woodard race where is is well documented he had zero hard workouts before that last minute entry. He was blowing very hard after that race where he was not blowing any in his Belmont win. Simply because he was out of shape in the Woodward. All the old time tracks experts knew it as well. They wrote about it & still he ran it in 2:26 3/5. WOW
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Sec couldn't win if he had a booger up his nose...what a wuz! Lots of horses have won despite being not 100%...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy Cy never in any of his races during his career gave any indication he was that fast & could have come close to running distances like Secretariat did. Turcotte quoted before the 1977 Belmont Stakes when asked about that historical race that if he had really gotten into Secretariat at the last quarter pole it would be hard to tell what he could have done. Red Smith said if asked by Turcotte he would have broken the world record which was done on turf by Fiddle Isle in 2:23 flat.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Again, he was neve