To that person who called msnbc marxist, honestly do you know what ur saying when do you see them calling for a revolution of the proletariat to seize the means of production. They might be left leaning but calling them Marxist is rediculous
For all you conservative assfuckers posting "The media is liberal!"on this video, you've all swallowed the media koolaid. Read Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent,' that is, read it if you can read above a 5th grade level. The major media are INHERENTLY right wing. They are CORPORATIONS pushing the interests of corporations; they sell YOU, the audience, to their advertisers. That is the institutional stucture of conglomerate media corporations. You're all fucked up the ass idiots.
@bapyou Excellent comment! And as far as reading above a 5th grade level, I'm sure they could. It's just comprehension above the 5th grade level that they can't accomplish. Danny Schecter is also an excellent critic of how the media operates, as well. Reading the stupidity drenched comments from the right on this video is nothing short of predictable. The only people who think the media is overwhelmingly liberal are people who want their narrative catered too, regularly.
Hardly requires any debate. The majority of the media is left-leaning. If you do not see this than you are either ignorant or suffering from your own bias/denial.
Funny how right-wing books are always hitting the bestseller charts these days. Perhaps it shows how liberal the average media outlet has become. Maybe that's why book sales for 'right wing' books are so much larger.
the media is liberaL! PERIOD! I really don't care anymore. It's not like the country doesn't know this. Why does fox news dominate all cable news networks combined? It's because they will tell you the truth. CNN MSNBC all network news is left. In cases such as MSNBC downright Marxist. Obermann, Maddow, and Matthews are American communists without question.
the media is liberaL! PERIOD! I really don't care anymore. It's not like the country doesn't know this. Why does fox news dominate all cable news networks combined? It's because they will tell you the truth. CNN MSNBC all network news is left. In cases such as MSNBC downright Marxist. Obermann, Maddow, and Matthews are American communists without question.
@SuperGuitarman69 “The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.” Malcom X....you will notice that when it comes to really important issues all the media, be it conservative or liberal will agree with eachother, that is because the Council on Foreign Relations controls both the liberal and conservative media
the media is liberaL! PERIOD! I really don't care anymore. It's not like the country doesn't know this. Why does fox news dominate all cable news networks combined? It's because they will tell you the truth. CNN MSNBC all network news is left. In cases such as MSNBC downright Marxist. Obermann, Maddow, and Matthews are American communists without question.
lol one of Tucker Carlson's points is Liberals "don't have anything to say" when in reality they simply can't say it.
Being anti-corporate and anti-intrusive government is not something the media is keen on because it itself is a corporate entity bent on making money.
tucker carlson talked with out lip smacking, so i could make it thru his speech, but alderman .. 25:10 slurpin on his drink and lip smacking after every sentance drove me nuts i can't take it, carlson wins!
It would be nice but their ideologies run the exact opposite to eachother. Liberals want big goverment in financial sector but no goverment in personal freedom and conservatives want a moral high ground goverment that stays out of the financial bits. I think the majority of people are moderates and thus both parties play to the emotions since emotions are the easiest way to change s persons mind long enough to win a vote. It is actually very manipulative and maddening, if you think about it.
This is not strictly true. Consider how much influence Liberals want Public Schools to have. They look for control of every aspect of human life. They also are attempting to ban smoking at every juncture. And look at the Health Care debate. They are attempting to control every aspect of our medical decisions. It's simply not true Liberals only care about economic control. They desire control of everything.
All i gotta say after watching the whole thing is man that Aldermann was a dirt bag. Every chance he got he was on the attack.Rather then answer the questions,he was all over the place attacking anything that had to do with anyone that wasn't a liberal.Pelosi would be proud of her fellow Pitt Bull...Tucker Carlson definitely showed the difference in that he was a class act to this classless jerk Altermann..They both Represented their sides well. One was a nice guy the other was an A-hole .
I don't know why people hate Tucker Carlson. I suppose may have come off as a little odious during his earlier cable programs, but he's an exceptionally bright fellow, and he definitely held the cards in this debate. That Fox News special he hosted this weekend on public school indoctrination was excellent.
Gee, is our moderator biased towards the left? SHOCKING!
Rating are dropping as our cynicism rises. It's time the network news revives journalism and regards all politicians with equal skepticism. It's time journalists report the facts rather than advocating ANY position.
How about that Laura Bush who only allowed organic food to be prepared at the White House for the Bush family and all their guests.
Never thought I'd live to see the day when a Conservative wife would push some hippie loving organic lifestyle down the throats of Americans. Where is the outrage. We have to spray our gardens with the best American bug spray and herbicide technology known to mankind.
Michael Parenti and Robert McChesney did a much better job of breaking down media bias. I dont know if I would call it bias in either direction at all.
Fox gives liberals a chance to speak, no other news outlet gives conservatives a chance to speak. The only reason lib's think its biased is because when you get a conservative and a liberal in a debate, the conservative wins.
Obama was willing to meet with every dictator of the world, but never Fox news. Dennis Kucinich was the only liberal with the balls to go on fox news. Lost, but his attempt was admirable.
Actually Obama did an hour long interview with Bill Oreilly during the presidential campaign. Its all over the internet if you care to watch it. Can you imagine George Bush, or John McCain or Sarah Palin agreeing to an hour long interview with Keith Olberman or Michael Moore?
HUGE difference O'Reilly was extremely Polite to Obama and made no jabs at him,unlike Katie Couric or The jerk off Gibson towards lets say Palin..also those same people and news organizations themselves edited Obama's interviews and took out anything they didn't want in them to come out...HUGE difference buddy.
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about my friend. O'Reilly basically spent the entire interview shouting Obama down as a Marxist.
The questions Palin got from Gibson and Couric, "what are your views on the Bush doctrine", "what magazines do you read on a regular basis", were softballs, anyone with a passing interest in American politics could have given better answers to these questions.
I don't really like O'Reilly as he seems like a dick but I remember that interview with him being very well bahaved for how he normally is. He never really shouted Obama down at all the whole time.
Tucker gave a lot of opinions without hard facts. Eric gave background facts to support opinions he had. But both only gave opinions and neither gave a full response to anything. when I say a full response, I mean they did not just give the full meaning of anything. A few media personalities try to be fair, but must be wary of their job.
That's a bit... hypocritical wouldn't you say? Committing yourself to that perspective in the same way that liberal democrats are committed to their unwavering perspective?
By your own definition, you must be a fascist as well.
By the way - fascism usually involves the restriction of civil liberties, especially to minorities. I hardly see how a group that condones the extension of these civil liberties to minorities can be fascist. But hey. You're the expert.
In our case the minorities are the working people who want to do better for themselves. Today's Minorities are the people who do not want entitlements and just want to work for a living.
the american news media is in the business of entertainment,brainwashing and conditioning-liberal conservative,all I know is they don't promote democracy or even journalism.
fuck television anchors,with their lame duck degrees from schools of journalism.They go along to get along.
Why is this topic even in question. Truly the media today is dominated by a Marxist-type talk. They attack the very rich and defend only the poor. The middle class in turn is completely ignored. Only stories of discrimination against blacks are covered and all other races are ignored. Mostly, media today is liberal in bent. It is so very far from conservatism. The mainstream in general is far off the mark of being conservative. There is no mystery other than why that is.
@snowtrot mmm...You don't seem to understand. The media is controlled through the CFR. They shill for corporate interests and Globalization. Left-Right is just to divide us so that they can continue to create policy without any "interference" from us. If you don't believe me then do your own research. The reason behind the CFR being created, their agenda, and their members are all documented in public record.
@yellowkrux No he can't. He's just parroting Talk radio points. I doubt he's ever read Marx in his life. That's why his comment is so demonstrably stupid.
Tucker is a far better speaker than Eric Alterman.
Much better and a better presenter of his positions and analogies. Eric is pretty typical of the liberal position....throw some fact and other eye wash and play the shell game.
Tucker lays out a solid comparison. Most journalists are from middle to upper class families and are pretty much socially liberal. So their opinion show up in their "reporting".
The Europeans back then saw this among other factors such geography, culture,religion and backgrounds. This is refered to as nationalism socialism. When Stalin caught wind of this he completely cut them off and gave them a different name Fascism. YOu are right that Fascism is coming from the left in fact a lot of the ideas the left believes in came from fascism such as vegetarianism, abortion, welfare state, appeasement and will use everyform of media to push their agenda. And spend millions
3rdworld fascism has always come from the left its just ideas changed because Europe didn't have an international mindset of socialism meaning communism marxism so forth. The main reason is because of language how can someone in St.Petersberg be considered my equal as my friend whom I've known all my life? It doesn't make since cuz we would have nothing in common and socialism is about getting rid of all the difference and share within each other a utopian society cont.
America, Europe and most of the world's press has a blatant, ideologically-motivaved, undemocratic and even quite fascistic and obvious leftist bias manipulating the public opinion -which in a democracy is a form of totalitarian control (see Chomsky's manufacture of consent, but it's happening on the LEFT side, not on the right from every single avenue of thoughts, images and ideas; i.e. Hollywood, Universities, the internet and the press).
I will always support the creation of a nation state, but never its liquidation. Israel's right to exist comes from its very existence; you supporting its liquidation is bigoted, much like the beliefs of the Fascists you claim are in power.
Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
A dictator is a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.
Zionism is a worldwide Jewish movement that resulted in the establishment and development of the state of Israel.
Tucker came out swinging and actually made some very good points. Both speakers were intelligent and made valid arguments. Definitely a debate worth watching.
These guys are retarded.
ashburnhouse 2 months ago
To that person who called msnbc marxist, honestly do you know what ur saying when do you see them calling for a revolution of the proletariat to seize the means of production. They might be left leaning but calling them Marxist is rediculous
rellik1945 7 months ago
1:15:30 Carlson quotes bogus suicide rate for Finland, they are #14.
iggerdanus 1 year ago
Comment removed
iggerdanus 1 year ago
What a Liberal says: the media does not have a liberal bias
What conservatives hear: ya and the earth isn't round
harriet807 1 year ago
90% of all journalists admitted to being liberal. 8% was no affiliation. 2% was conservative.
vhsballin31 1 year ago
@vhsballin31 90% of journalists admitted to being conservative. 8% was no affiliation. 2% was liberal.
See what I did there?
Tribune12345 10 months ago
Tuckers analysis of think tanks is laughable.
JonasMMG 1 year ago
For all you conservative assfuckers posting "The media is liberal!"on this video, you've all swallowed the media koolaid. Read Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent,' that is, read it if you can read above a 5th grade level. The major media are INHERENTLY right wing. They are CORPORATIONS pushing the interests of corporations; they sell YOU, the audience, to their advertisers. That is the institutional stucture of conglomerate media corporations. You're all fucked up the ass idiots.
bapyou 1 year ago 3
@bapyou Excellent comment! And as far as reading above a 5th grade level, I'm sure they could. It's just comprehension above the 5th grade level that they can't accomplish. Danny Schecter is also an excellent critic of how the media operates, as well. Reading the stupidity drenched comments from the right on this video is nothing short of predictable. The only people who think the media is overwhelmingly liberal are people who want their narrative catered too, regularly.
DaHonestAbe 11 months ago
i watch Special Broadcasting Service (SBS Australia).
halflifeproductionz 1 year ago
Hardly requires any debate. The majority of the media is left-leaning. If you do not see this than you are either ignorant or suffering from your own bias/denial.
Funny how right-wing books are always hitting the bestseller charts these days. Perhaps it shows how liberal the average media outlet has become. Maybe that's why book sales for 'right wing' books are so much larger.
`
mtb416 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the media is liberaL! PERIOD! I really don't care anymore. It's not like the country doesn't know this. Why does fox news dominate all cable news networks combined? It's because they will tell you the truth. CNN MSNBC all network news is left. In cases such as MSNBC downright Marxist. Obermann, Maddow, and Matthews are American communists without question.
SuperGuitarman69 1 year ago
the media is liberaL! PERIOD! I really don't care anymore. It's not like the country doesn't know this. Why does fox news dominate all cable news networks combined? It's because they will tell you the truth. CNN MSNBC all network news is left. In cases such as MSNBC downright Marxist. Obermann, Maddow, and Matthews are American communists without question.
SuperGuitarman69 1 year ago
@SuperGuitarman69 “The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.” Malcom X....you will notice that when it comes to really important issues all the media, be it conservative or liberal will agree with eachother, that is because the Council on Foreign Relations controls both the liberal and conservative media
tfrenn 1 year ago
the media is liberaL! PERIOD! I really don't care anymore. It's not like the country doesn't know this. Why does fox news dominate all cable news networks combined? It's because they will tell you the truth. CNN MSNBC all network news is left. In cases such as MSNBC downright Marxist. Obermann, Maddow, and Matthews are American communists without question.
SuperGuitarman69 1 year ago
lol one of Tucker Carlson's points is Liberals "don't have anything to say" when in reality they simply can't say it.
Being anti-corporate and anti-intrusive government is not something the media is keen on because it itself is a corporate entity bent on making money.
AndroidPolitician 2 years ago 3
"Papers backing Bush represented 58 percent of total national circulation while Gore supporters represented 42 percent"
Liberal media in action
AndroidPolitician 2 years ago
tucker carlson talked with out lip smacking, so i could make it thru his speech, but alderman .. 25:10 slurpin on his drink and lip smacking after every sentance drove me nuts i can't take it, carlson wins!
TheHabit00 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheHabit00 2 years ago
The liberal idiot speaking in the intro drove me nuts with his lip smacking! i coulkd not take it! i wanted to slice his throat!
TheHabit00 2 years ago
@TheHabit00 Spoken like a true conservative!
Tribune12345 10 months ago
It's very hard to find news on the television that is not biased towards one side of the isle. Even local news sometimes has a trek record.
musicman9982007 2 years ago
Liberals and conservatives should work together not against...
marcolarko 2 years ago 2
It would be nice but their ideologies run the exact opposite to eachother. Liberals want big goverment in financial sector but no goverment in personal freedom and conservatives want a moral high ground goverment that stays out of the financial bits. I think the majority of people are moderates and thus both parties play to the emotions since emotions are the easiest way to change s persons mind long enough to win a vote. It is actually very manipulative and maddening, if you think about it.
Cajaquarius 2 years ago
Mhmm You are right.
marcolarko 2 years ago
This is not strictly true. Consider how much influence Liberals want Public Schools to have. They look for control of every aspect of human life. They also are attempting to ban smoking at every juncture. And look at the Health Care debate. They are attempting to control every aspect of our medical decisions. It's simply not true Liberals only care about economic control. They desire control of everything.
sgtkpf 2 years ago
All i gotta say after watching the whole thing is man that Aldermann was a dirt bag. Every chance he got he was on the attack.Rather then answer the questions,he was all over the place attacking anything that had to do with anyone that wasn't a liberal.Pelosi would be proud of her fellow Pitt Bull...Tucker Carlson definitely showed the difference in that he was a class act to this classless jerk Altermann..They both Represented their sides well. One was a nice guy the other was an A-hole .
quixel12 2 years ago 2
This guy showed his bias soon after he started speaking LMAO.
quixel12 2 years ago
I don't know why people hate Tucker Carlson. I suppose may have come off as a little odious during his earlier cable programs, but he's an exceptionally bright fellow, and he definitely held the cards in this debate. That Fox News special he hosted this weekend on public school indoctrination was excellent.
LuckyPierre78 2 years ago 3
Gee, is our moderator biased towards the left? SHOCKING!
Rating are dropping as our cynicism rises. It's time the network news revives journalism and regards all politicians with equal skepticism. It's time journalists report the facts rather than advocating ANY position.
derherr65 2 years ago
How about that Laura Bush who only allowed organic food to be prepared at the White House for the Bush family and all their guests.
Never thought I'd live to see the day when a Conservative wife would push some hippie loving organic lifestyle down the throats of Americans. Where is the outrage. We have to spray our gardens with the best American bug spray and herbicide technology known to mankind.
God Bless America
route4liberty 2 years ago 3
Michael Parenti and Robert McChesney did a much better job of breaking down media bias. I dont know if I would call it bias in either direction at all.
DaHonestAbe 2 years ago
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MonroeOgden 2 years ago
liberal media biaed.
excpet for fox, which is conservative biased
btchr17 2 years ago
Fox gives liberals a chance to speak, no other news outlet gives conservatives a chance to speak. The only reason lib's think its biased is because when you get a conservative and a liberal in a debate, the conservative wins.
areUserious28 2 years ago
very true. and thats why fox has the best ratings
btchr17 2 years ago
Obama was willing to meet with every dictator of the world, but never Fox news. Dennis Kucinich was the only liberal with the balls to go on fox news. Lost, but his attempt was admirable.
issanel 2 years ago 5
Actually Obama did an hour long interview with Bill Oreilly during the presidential campaign. Its all over the internet if you care to watch it. Can you imagine George Bush, or John McCain or Sarah Palin agreeing to an hour long interview with Keith Olberman or Michael Moore?
jacobins3000 2 years ago 2
Damn, Ok, yes you got me. I forgot about that one.
issanel 2 years ago
Bill O'Reilly was polite. Micheal Moore is an asshole, who would never be polite.
mephistosinner 2 years ago
At least this time Oreilly didn't tell Obama to shut up and cut off his mike, ill give him that.
jacobins3000 2 years ago
HUGE difference O'Reilly was extremely Polite to Obama and made no jabs at him,unlike Katie Couric or The jerk off Gibson towards lets say Palin..also those same people and news organizations themselves edited Obama's interviews and took out anything they didn't want in them to come out...HUGE difference buddy.
quixel12 2 years ago
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about my friend. O'Reilly basically spent the entire interview shouting Obama down as a Marxist.
The questions Palin got from Gibson and Couric, "what are your views on the Bush doctrine", "what magazines do you read on a regular basis", were softballs, anyone with a passing interest in American politics could have given better answers to these questions.
jacobins3000 2 years ago
I don't really like O'Reilly as he seems like a dick but I remember that interview with him being very well bahaved for how he normally is. He never really shouted Obama down at all the whole time.
Cajaquarius 2 years ago
Oh, and what about Chric Matthews getting a thrill up his leg everytime Obama talked. That was fair and balanced?
sgtkpf 2 years ago
@sgtkpf No it wasn't. As much as I like Chris I felt he should not have said.
RealTime88 1 year ago
@issanel Anthony Weiner did too. Congessman from New York. I like Dennis too, he's a good guy ask Ron Paul.
RealTime88 10 months ago
@issanel
obama is god
you must be a racist
xardas611 10 months ago
This is nice video85237738
LillianColwynnscehy 2 years ago
Wow... I am finding myself agreeing with Tucker Carlson... a lot.
billbot1982 2 years ago 3
Tucker gave a lot of opinions without hard facts. Eric gave background facts to support opinions he had. But both only gave opinions and neither gave a full response to anything. when I say a full response, I mean they did not just give the full meaning of anything. A few media personalities try to be fair, but must be wary of their job.
carhac66 2 years ago
the internet isn't biased. If you know what your doing.
MaxwellBennett 2 years ago
We'd all be fucked if it wasn't for the internet.
drewd1987 2 years ago 2
That's why you better fight the government when they begin to censor it.
fredzepp1 2 years ago
it is all conservative and Liberal biased.
MaxwellBennett 2 years ago
1:14:00
Tucker states that Finland is second in suicide rate after Cuba. In fact, Finland is about tenth on that list and Cuba isn't even in the top 50.
machismoslice 2 years ago
Liberal democrats say they seek many perspectives only until they realize that there are other perspectives. They are the fascists of our time.
halo3MLG25766 2 years ago 4
What.
That's a bit... hypocritical wouldn't you say? Committing yourself to that perspective in the same way that liberal democrats are committed to their unwavering perspective?
By your own definition, you must be a fascist as well.
By the way - fascism usually involves the restriction of civil liberties, especially to minorities. I hardly see how a group that condones the extension of these civil liberties to minorities can be fascist. But hey. You're the expert.
massivedickweedohyea 2 years ago
In our case the minorities are the working people who want to do better for themselves. Today's Minorities are the people who do not want entitlements and just want to work for a living.
sechenry6 2 years ago 2
the american news media is in the business of entertainment,brainwashing and conditioning-liberal conservative,all I know is they don't promote democracy or even journalism.
fuck television anchors,with their lame duck degrees from schools of journalism.They go along to get along.
crypttonite 2 years ago
Fascism cometh from the left.
3rdWorldInvasion 2 years ago
Why is this topic even in question. Truly the media today is dominated by a Marxist-type talk. They attack the very rich and defend only the poor. The middle class in turn is completely ignored. Only stories of discrimination against blacks are covered and all other races are ignored. Mostly, media today is liberal in bent. It is so very far from conservatism. The mainstream in general is far off the mark of being conservative. There is no mystery other than why that is.
snowtrot 2 years ago
@snowtrot mmm...You don't seem to understand. The media is controlled through the CFR. They shill for corporate interests and Globalization. Left-Right is just to divide us so that they can continue to create policy without any "interference" from us. If you don't believe me then do your own research. The reason behind the CFR being created, their agenda, and their members are all documented in public record.
tstruss912 1 year ago
@tstruss912 ... I do not doubt what you say.
snowtrot 1 year ago
@snowtrot Can you provide an example of this "Marxist-type talk"?
Why shouldn't this be a question?
yellowkrux 1 year ago 4
@yellowkrux No he can't. He's just parroting Talk radio points. I doubt he's ever read Marx in his life. That's why his comment is so demonstrably stupid.
DaHonestAbe 11 months ago
Tucker is a far better speaker than Eric Alterman.
Much better and a better presenter of his positions and analogies. Eric is pretty typical of the liberal position....throw some fact and other eye wash and play the shell game.
Tucker lays out a solid comparison. Most journalists are from middle to upper class families and are pretty much socially liberal. So their opinion show up in their "reporting".
Nice Job on both but Tucker wins in a land slide.
Catamount1980 2 years ago 4
Fascist always killed and hated homosexuals...
InFromTheVoid 3 years ago
The Europeans back then saw this among other factors such geography, culture,religion and backgrounds. This is refered to as nationalism socialism. When Stalin caught wind of this he completely cut them off and gave them a different name Fascism. YOu are right that Fascism is coming from the left in fact a lot of the ideas the left believes in came from fascism such as vegetarianism, abortion, welfare state, appeasement and will use everyform of media to push their agenda. And spend millions
eddypimp 3 years ago
3rdworld fascism has always come from the left its just ideas changed because Europe didn't have an international mindset of socialism meaning communism marxism so forth. The main reason is because of language how can someone in St.Petersberg be considered my equal as my friend whom I've known all my life? It doesn't make since cuz we would have nothing in common and socialism is about getting rid of all the difference and share within each other a utopian society cont.
eddypimp 3 years ago
America, Europe and most of the world's press has a blatant, ideologically-motivaved, undemocratic and even quite fascistic and obvious leftist bias manipulating the public opinion -which in a democracy is a form of totalitarian control (see Chomsky's manufacture of consent, but it's happening on the LEFT side, not on the right from every single avenue of thoughts, images and ideas; i.e. Hollywood, Universities, the internet and the press).
Fascism comes from the left today, it is exposed.
3rdWorldInvasion 3 years ago
Liberal democrats say they seek many perspectives only until they realize that there are other perspectives. They are the fascists of our time.
snowtrot 2 years ago 3
I will always support the creation of a nation state, but never its liquidation. Israel's right to exist comes from its very existence; you supporting its liquidation is bigoted, much like the beliefs of the Fascists you claim are in power.
albatrosstango 3 years ago
Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
A dictator is a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.
Zionism is a worldwide Jewish movement that resulted in the establishment and development of the state of Israel.
albatrosstango 3 years ago
Tucker came out swinging and actually made some very good points. Both speakers were intelligent and made valid arguments. Definitely a debate worth watching.
SmizAnL4Me 3 years ago 7
Just another proof that currently the intellectual strenght is on the right. But maybe the zeitgeist is changing.
derner22 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Zionist fascism controls the media
uuubeut 3 years ago