It's hard to know what point the author of this video is trying to make. On the one hand we hear Harris saying that religion is the "most divisive and dangerous ideology we have ever produced". And then we see American troops in menacing pictures presumably from a country the Americans invaded. Is the point of this video to show the hypocrisy of accusing religion of being "the most dangerous ideology ever" while the troops of a secular nation menace people all around the globe?
@voncello Those American troops were sent to those conflicts by a man named George Walker Bush who claimed on more than one occasion to be acting on God's behalf and once made the statement, "God speaks through me." I think the point of the video is to show the accuracy of Harris' charge, not the hypocrisy of it.
@YodanboogerLives You think he is saying that the US went to Iraq for religious reasons? I think you'd have a hard time justifying that belief in light of many other factors such as oil. As for Bush, he never went to church as president and there are many pictures all over the internet of him making Satanic or possibly Masonic symbols with his hands. I think you'd also have a hard time proving that he is truly a God fearing man. Rather I think Harris was disproving his own point with the video.
@YodanboogerLives There's nothing to disagree about. You simply don't know about this. Just do a search on You Tube for "Satanic Hand Signs" and you'll see plenty of footage of Bush making the sign. One video poster explained it this way, "HORNED HAND or THE MANO CORNUTO: This gesture is the satanic salute, a sign of recognition between and allegiance of members of satanism or other unholy groups. It is also called the Il Cornuto." So laugh out loud but remember: he who laughs first laughs last!
I as a Christian agree with Sam Harris. Religion is terrible. But Christianity really isnt a religion. Through out the ages of the world ppl try to get to God. Whether through human sacrifice, crusades, jihads, etc. But the difference with Christianity is, is that its not humans trying to get to God but its God going to humans. But Sam Harris argument is that Christianity is a moral bankruptcy. I got one question. Is there any other religion where you could die and still love your killer?
@SublordUtilax123 Well, it would be a boring world if we all liked the same things. I try not to be a dick about it though. Backhanded compliment accepted.
Ucanbedeluded woops Ucanbegod (just couldn't bring myself to give the delusion a capital letter)
Your post reads like that of a child who doesn't like what it hears but has no valid retort when chastised. "Blah blah blah" is that all you can contribute?
How enlightening.
Saying no one gives a shit doesn't make it so. In fact, you fool, EVERYONE cares, whether deluded by their beliefs or enlightened enough to question the existence of a god.
You would have to be mentally insane to believe there is a god but let us assume that we discover an invisible consciousness that permeates the entire universe. In that case I bet it would be a consequence of the laws of nature and not its source or cause but the whole discussion and notion of a god is so moronic that it is an embarrassment to human intelligence.
I agree, religion is something that we've made up cause people believe we need to have faith in something. that thinking right away is setting your self up for brainwash and be easily used as a pawn by the corrupted. its crazy that stories that were made up from watching the stars as a form of entertainment and use to show morality could be taken so seriously in time.
Perhaps, if one could turn back the clock a bit, so that the Abrahamic gods could be transported back to the middle east and contained like a mental asylum, never to be let out again, then the world would certainly be a better and tolerable place to live in.
Given an atheistic evolutionary presupposition, religion can not be regarded as something wrong or nonsensical. It is just the way the natural order works itself out. Religion is one of the many processes in evolution that contribute to the survival of an organism. Is the development of a pancreas also wrong? If not then why is religion wrong?
I assume by "wrong" you mean unnatural, in which case I agree with you: religion is apparently a step on our evolutionary path. Along with the dark ages, the crusades, the Vietnam war and Limp Bizkit. Just because something was accepted and important in the past does not mean it should be so for all time.
Who is the naturalist to say what should and shouldn't be? This is what nature does, neither right or wrong nor true or false. It just is. Is the burning out of a star something that shouldn't be? Or the the growing of grass? Why do you separate the people atoms from grass atoms? Given naturalism, both are nothing but the effects of there cause. They are molecules in motion being controlled by the laws of nature. Religion is part of the deterministic natural system.
It sounds to me like you are getting hung up more on the words than the ideas they represent. Of course stars dying and grass growing are natural processes. This however has nothing to do with the fact that some things - like people having certain beliefs based on insufficient evidence - is undesirable.
You continue to miss my point. If nothing exists beyond the natural world then these "beliefs" you speak of are simply atoms banging around in the head. All thoughts, beliefs, and knowledge are illusory in that they are the result of the laws of physics and chemistry acting upon our brains. This means that you are not an atheist because you think it's rational, but rather this is just what your brain happens to be do given he conditions in the universe.
I see your point, but it is a non-sequitur. Why should our thoughts be "illusory' just because the atoms in our brains behave according to the physical laws that govern the entire universe? Your logic is flawed.
None of your thoughts (electro-chemical processes) hold any truth value to them. There's no reason to think that your even thinking. Your "thoughts" are only the movement of atoms causally determined by the laws of nature. There is no way to choose truth over error because there is no choice. Just as the pancreas secretes insulin, the brain secrets thoughts. It is basically all reduced to absurdity. Logic, science, math, and morality are nothing but brain gas and hold no relation to the world.
Thoughts hold truth value when they are synchronized with empirical reality, and I think our present existence is evidence enough for that. If our thoughts held no binary value, the we would not be able to vet incoming sense data with any level of functional accuracy, build structurally sound buildings or drive the abstraction of mathematics etc.. I think you need to seriously retool your Sarteian grasp of reality and meaning before you try to tackle objective validity again.
Blah blah blah. You are arguing that none if it matters because of the fact that thoughts are controlled by nature. Well lets say thats 100% true, who cares? It is also part of nature to rebel against the notion of God or religion or any idea at all. So thinking like that leads you to a point of nothing matters. Why would you argue that at all, when we as people do think things matter and are happy or miserable in the contexts of these things? In short....Blah blah blah.
If it is 100% true, then everything you just said holds the same objective value as "blah blah blah". It's all just atoms banging around. There's no relation to your thoughts and objective reality. As C.S. Lewis rightly stated, "It [materialistic naturalism] would have destroyed its own credentials. It would be an argument which proved that no argument was sound -- a proof that there are no such things as proofs -- which is nonsense"
OK? Anyway, whatever you are saying is something that nobody gives a shit about and has no reason too in the first place. Its like you are arguing the color of the sky, it could be a different color to you but everyone sees it how they can see it so again....who cares?
Yep, that's the obvious flaw. Even if all we are atoms banging around (which we are, by the way) there is no reason to assume that free will is impossible: that would be like saying that life is impossible because at its very core we are all lifeless atoms.
A sufficiently large composition of atoms can create the notion of free will, just as it can create the notion of morality and life.
@godverdegodverdomme Do you believe you are free? Rom 6:16 states, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" We are all salves—either to sin or to God. Slavery to God, paradoxically, is the only true freedom.
But I have a more fundamental question. When you say religion is wrong, by what standard do you make such moral judgments? Is this standard absolute and universal?
@godverdegodverdomme The Bible does not teach that people are burned forever; it teaches that they are annihilated (Isa 5:20-24, Ps37:20, 2 Thes 1:9, Mal 4:1, Obi 16, Matt 13:40)
But besides this, your statement is absurd. The people who are assigned to hell obviously did not better understand the world around them.
Do you believe that students who fail an algebra course understand the course better than those who passed?
@godverdegodverdomme Unfortunately, your description of people in this world is nothing shy of a fluffy fairytale. People's hearts are dark and full of selfishness. He who denies this fact is in a worst case in that he does not recognize his own depravity. Given Christianity, all have sinned and come short from the glory of God". They thus need Christ's righteousness.
Intrinsic value? How does a human have intrinsic value in an atheistic world where he is simply a bag of biological stuff?
@Victoruto "People's hearts are dark and full of selfishness" absolutely. But you know what else? People's hearts are also light and full of selflessness. We as a species are multifaceted and self-contradictory. Humans are an imperfect animal, but we are beautiful in our imperfection. For you to reduce this vast complexity to "original sin" is a mockery of reality.
Also, can we put the "bag of biological stuff" crap to rest? That's a strawman that needs to be let go, it's making you look bad.
@godverdegodverdomme No, this is not an absolute and universal and absolute standard. Let me pose the Q another way: What criterion do you use to determine the difference between right and wrong? What, in a naturalistic world of physical particulars, can constitute as moral standard from which to derive meaningful moral distinctions. ... Or are your moral judgments simply preferences of yours?
@godverdegodverdomme "...I consider to be wrong." Well, so what? Why should the rest of the world care what you subjectively consider to be wrong? Should the world also care about my ice cream preference? You have no authoritative and over-arching ethical voice, thus no rational account of any meaningful morality.
Thank you for the kind words. Sam Harris's talk was of course a huge inspiration and motivated me to do my part in bringing conversation and critique of religion into the public dialog.
Even more so considering we manufactured the bananas using an evolutionary process! As others have said, excellent video. I'd like to see more in the future. :)
Great Message man
shandcunt 1 year ago
It's hard to know what point the author of this video is trying to make. On the one hand we hear Harris saying that religion is the "most divisive and dangerous ideology we have ever produced". And then we see American troops in menacing pictures presumably from a country the Americans invaded. Is the point of this video to show the hypocrisy of accusing religion of being "the most dangerous ideology ever" while the troops of a secular nation menace people all around the globe?
voncello 1 year ago
@voncello I wouldn't go so far as to call the USA a secular nation.
JoshwithaJ 1 year ago
@JoshwithaJ I didn't call the USA a secular nation. I was asking of that is what this video is trying to portray.
voncello 1 year ago
@voncello Those American troops were sent to those conflicts by a man named George Walker Bush who claimed on more than one occasion to be acting on God's behalf and once made the statement, "God speaks through me." I think the point of the video is to show the accuracy of Harris' charge, not the hypocrisy of it.
YodanboogerLives 1 year ago
@YodanboogerLives You think he is saying that the US went to Iraq for religious reasons? I think you'd have a hard time justifying that belief in light of many other factors such as oil. As for Bush, he never went to church as president and there are many pictures all over the internet of him making Satanic or possibly Masonic symbols with his hands. I think you'd also have a hard time proving that he is truly a God fearing man. Rather I think Harris was disproving his own point with the video.
voncello 1 year ago
"...many pictures all over the internet of him making Satanic or possibly Masonic symbols with his hands." Let's agree to disagree because...lolwut?
YodanboogerLives 1 year ago
@YodanboogerLives There's nothing to disagree about. You simply don't know about this. Just do a search on You Tube for "Satanic Hand Signs" and you'll see plenty of footage of Bush making the sign. One video poster explained it this way, "HORNED HAND or THE MANO CORNUTO: This gesture is the satanic salute, a sign of recognition between and allegiance of members of satanism or other unholy groups. It is also called the Il Cornuto." So laugh out loud but remember: he who laughs first laughs last!
voncello 1 year ago
awesome, Like the mix like the music like it all
Unworshipediety 1 year ago
"Do you believe that students who fail an algebra course understand the course better than those who passed?"
I acknowledge the fact that passing an algebra course does not equal a better
understanding of algebra then the student that didn't pass.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
@btiggy420 The problem is that they can't keep that disease to themselves,
and constantly have to rub in everyone's face how marvelous it is to have their
mental impairment, with a loose case here and there totally losing it, resulting
in several dead people who had absolutely nothing to do with it.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
I as a Christian agree with Sam Harris. Religion is terrible. But Christianity really isnt a religion. Through out the ages of the world ppl try to get to God. Whether through human sacrifice, crusades, jihads, etc. But the difference with Christianity is, is that its not humans trying to get to God but its God going to humans. But Sam Harris argument is that Christianity is a moral bankruptcy. I got one question. Is there any other religion where you could die and still love your killer?
Bycoon 1 year ago
@Bycoon See Jainism
VictorEchoNovember79 1 year ago
sorry, you aren't very musical at all, this is shit music. great message though.
SublordUtilax123 1 year ago
@SublordUtilax123 Well, it would be a boring world if we all liked the same things. I try not to be a dick about it though. Backhanded compliment accepted.
ScienceClubX 1 year ago
Ucanbedeluded woops Ucanbegod (just couldn't bring myself to give the delusion a capital letter)
Your post reads like that of a child who doesn't like what it hears but has no valid retort when chastised. "Blah blah blah" is that all you can contribute?
How enlightening.
Saying no one gives a shit doesn't make it so. In fact, you fool, EVERYONE cares, whether deluded by their beliefs or enlightened enough to question the existence of a god.
mahballsarefine 3 years ago 3
You would have to be mentally insane to believe there is a god but let us assume that we discover an invisible consciousness that permeates the entire universe. In that case I bet it would be a consequence of the laws of nature and not its source or cause but the whole discussion and notion of a god is so moronic that it is an embarrassment to human intelligence.
drandersw 3 years ago
Religion is the biggest threat we are facing inside ourselves. We would be infinitely better off without this mental disease.
drandersw 3 years ago 11
I agree, religion is something that we've made up cause people believe we need to have faith in something. that thinking right away is setting your self up for brainwash and be easily used as a pawn by the corrupted. its crazy that stories that were made up from watching the stars as a form of entertainment and use to show morality could be taken so seriously in time.
gex581990 3 years ago
Perhaps, if one could turn back the clock a bit, so that the Abrahamic gods could be transported back to the middle east and contained like a mental asylum, never to be let out again, then the world would certainly be a better and tolerable place to live in.
0zerosomu0 3 years ago
Nicely done video!
ininetysix 3 years ago
Good stuff!
Reevomatic 3 years ago
Given an atheistic evolutionary presupposition, religion can not be regarded as something wrong or nonsensical. It is just the way the natural order works itself out. Religion is one of the many processes in evolution that contribute to the survival of an organism. Is the development of a pancreas also wrong? If not then why is religion wrong?
Victoruto 3 years ago
I assume by "wrong" you mean unnatural, in which case I agree with you: religion is apparently a step on our evolutionary path. Along with the dark ages, the crusades, the Vietnam war and Limp Bizkit. Just because something was accepted and important in the past does not mean it should be so for all time.
ScienceClubX 3 years ago
Who is the naturalist to say what should and shouldn't be? This is what nature does, neither right or wrong nor true or false. It just is. Is the burning out of a star something that shouldn't be? Or the the growing of grass? Why do you separate the people atoms from grass atoms? Given naturalism, both are nothing but the effects of there cause. They are molecules in motion being controlled by the laws of nature. Religion is part of the deterministic natural system.
Victoruto 3 years ago
It sounds to me like you are getting hung up more on the words than the ideas they represent. Of course stars dying and grass growing are natural processes. This however has nothing to do with the fact that some things - like people having certain beliefs based on insufficient evidence - is undesirable.
ScienceClubX 3 years ago
You continue to miss my point. If nothing exists beyond the natural world then these "beliefs" you speak of are simply atoms banging around in the head. All thoughts, beliefs, and knowledge are illusory in that they are the result of the laws of physics and chemistry acting upon our brains. This means that you are not an atheist because you think it's rational, but rather this is just what your brain happens to be do given he conditions in the universe.
Victoruto 3 years ago
I see your point, but it is a non-sequitur. Why should our thoughts be "illusory' just because the atoms in our brains behave according to the physical laws that govern the entire universe? Your logic is flawed.
ScienceClubX 3 years ago 2
None of your thoughts (electro-chemical processes) hold any truth value to them. There's no reason to think that your even thinking. Your "thoughts" are only the movement of atoms causally determined by the laws of nature. There is no way to choose truth over error because there is no choice. Just as the pancreas secretes insulin, the brain secrets thoughts. It is basically all reduced to absurdity. Logic, science, math, and morality are nothing but brain gas and hold no relation to the world.
Victoruto 3 years ago
Thoughts hold truth value when they are synchronized with empirical reality, and I think our present existence is evidence enough for that. If our thoughts held no binary value, the we would not be able to vet incoming sense data with any level of functional accuracy, build structurally sound buildings or drive the abstraction of mathematics etc.. I think you need to seriously retool your Sarteian grasp of reality and meaning before you try to tackle objective validity again.
ready2ruckk 3 years ago
Blah blah blah. You are arguing that none if it matters because of the fact that thoughts are controlled by nature. Well lets say thats 100% true, who cares? It is also part of nature to rebel against the notion of God or religion or any idea at all. So thinking like that leads you to a point of nothing matters. Why would you argue that at all, when we as people do think things matter and are happy or miserable in the contexts of these things? In short....Blah blah blah.
UcanbeGOD 3 years ago
"Well lets say thats 100% true, who cares?"
If it is 100% true, then everything you just said holds the same objective value as "blah blah blah". It's all just atoms banging around. There's no relation to your thoughts and objective reality. As C.S. Lewis rightly stated, "It [materialistic naturalism] would have destroyed its own credentials. It would be an argument which proved that no argument was sound -- a proof that there are no such things as proofs -- which is nonsense"
Victoruto 3 years ago
OK? Anyway, whatever you are saying is something that nobody gives a shit about and has no reason too in the first place. Its like you are arguing the color of the sky, it could be a different color to you but everyone sees it how they can see it so again....who cares?
UcanbeGOD 3 years ago
Yep, that's the obvious flaw. Even if all we are atoms banging around (which we are, by the way) there is no reason to assume that free will is impossible: that would be like saying that life is impossible because at its very core we are all lifeless atoms.
A sufficiently large composition of atoms can create the notion of free will, just as it can create the notion of morality and life.
BRtankbuster 1 year ago
Your argument is very convoluted.
ready2ruckk 3 years ago
@Victoruto Religion is wrong because it is set up to rule over, and enslave people.
Wheter it is ' natural' or not, it clearly shouldn't be as it is an undesirable situation
for mankind, and steers it towards chaos since you cannot forcefully enslave free
minds for an unlimited amount of time.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
@godverdegodverdomme Do you believe you are free? Rom 6:16 states, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" We are all salves—either to sin or to God. Slavery to God, paradoxically, is the only true freedom.
But I have a more fundamental question. When you say religion is wrong, by what standard do you make such moral judgments? Is this standard absolute and universal?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto
Slavery to god, the only true freedom ?
As an Atheist I can safely assure anyone that the belief in
god, when combined with dogma, results in an oppressor of freedom,
and an enforcer of a ghastly dictature that has no tangible leading figure.
Concerning sin, I am no slave to it. I don't believe in sin,
I believe in and practise moral values without any figmentive deities
to ' aid' me or show me ' the way' .
It's all me, and when someone's a bloody bastard, I choose to bash em.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
@Victoruto
I make that judgement by observing mainly christianity, and islamic
courses of action in our world, motivated by their personal delusions.
Is this standard absolute and universal ?
It is a branch of religion that clearly shows us what exactly ' religion'
can grow into, when given too much space and time in a world that is
kinder to them, then they are to it.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
But yes, I'd say it's fundamentally wrong when you desire to see people
burn forever for having a better understanding of the world around them,
then you do.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
@godverdegodverdomme The Bible does not teach that people are burned forever; it teaches that they are annihilated (Isa 5:20-24, Ps37:20, 2 Thes 1:9, Mal 4:1, Obi 16, Matt 13:40)
But besides this, your statement is absurd. The people who are assigned to hell obviously did not better understand the world around them.
Do you believe that students who fail an algebra course understand the course better than those who passed?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto
Many people that are supposedly are assigned to hell
are undeserving of it's punishments, most people would be
decent, moral people that lived their lives in peace on Earth,
trying to make the best of it, loving fellow humans and the world
around them, showing it appreciation and respect, feeling genuinely
humble in it's presence, as they perceive the deep and intrinsic value
of the life they were given.
Yes victoruto, those people obviously have no clue about the world
they live in
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
@godverdegodverdomme Unfortunately, your description of people in this world is nothing shy of a fluffy fairytale. People's hearts are dark and full of selfishness. He who denies this fact is in a worst case in that he does not recognize his own depravity. Given Christianity, all have sinned and come short from the glory of God". They thus need Christ's righteousness.
Intrinsic value? How does a human have intrinsic value in an atheistic world where he is simply a bag of biological stuff?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto "People's hearts are dark and full of selfishness" absolutely. But you know what else? People's hearts are also light and full of selflessness. We as a species are multifaceted and self-contradictory. Humans are an imperfect animal, but we are beautiful in our imperfection. For you to reduce this vast complexity to "original sin" is a mockery of reality.
Also, can we put the "bag of biological stuff" crap to rest? That's a strawman that needs to be let go, it's making you look bad.
ScienceClubX 1 year ago
@godverdegodverdomme No, this is not an absolute and universal and absolute standard. Let me pose the Q another way: What criterion do you use to determine the difference between right and wrong? What, in a naturalistic world of physical particulars, can constitute as moral standard from which to derive meaningful moral distinctions. ... Or are your moral judgments simply preferences of yours?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto I am aware of the fact that it is not an absolute standard.
And my criteria to distinguish right from wrong, is simply that any course
of action that wilfully causes an undesireable situation for another person
out of self interest I consider to be wrong.
godverdegodverdomme 1 year ago
@godverdegodverdomme "...I consider to be wrong." Well, so what? Why should the rest of the world care what you subjectively consider to be wrong? Should the world also care about my ice cream preference? You have no authoritative and over-arching ethical voice, thus no rational account of any meaningful morality.
Victoruto 1 year ago
All wars fought on earth? Hmm...WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Revolutionary War, Cold War, Korean War, and the list goes on.
Victoruto 3 years ago
rofl very nice video.
xXCainBathoryXx 3 years ago
Very great video! Good work!
Jkief123 3 years ago
Sweet Video!
revkins 3 years ago
that was really, really good :)
i5a6i7n8 3 years ago
great video keep em coming !
drumitar 3 years ago
right on, man. good stuff! I'm surprised we haven't seen more things like this. (I've wanted to do one for awhile)
RabidApe 3 years ago 2
Thank you for the kind words. Sam Harris's talk was of course a huge inspiration and motivated me to do my part in bringing conversation and critique of religion into the public dialog.
ScienceClubX 3 years ago
Very well done. The banana video was a nice addition. It's one of the most absurd things I've ever seen.
The music, video clips, and Sam Harris samples go very well together!
highonbread 3 years ago
Even more so considering we manufactured the bananas using an evolutionary process! As others have said, excellent video. I'd like to see more in the future. :)
HeroesFail 3 years ago
Nice!
DaveGrossmanSoloBass 3 years ago 7
Thank you. This took a very long time to put together and the positive feedback is encouraging.
ScienceClubX 3 years ago
My pleasure. Great work! "Nice" doesn't really do it justice. I like the old-school feel of it.
DaveGrossmanSoloBass 3 years ago 2