Fastpitch Softball Hitting Tip: Forget "Elbow Up"

[ChuckLetson]

Thanks Stacie. This has been a hotly debated subject for quite some time and I feel your video here clearly spells out the reason to not force the "elbow up" method. Some people think it helps while others hit better with their elbow a bit lower. Every player is built a little differently and a good level headed open minded approach focused on what is best for the player will produce the best results. I wish more youth coaches would listen to this. Thanks for posting.

[1221961]

Maybe checking some great hitters like Manny and ARod to further my point.Additionally if you allow your elbow to drop it will lead to slotting of the back elbow/bat drag. Bat drag is the worst thing that can happen to a hitter during the movement. With all due respect I have documentation from a plethora of Biomechanists if you need.

[miken23barnett]

Iv played both Baseball and fast pitch softball. Iv played Minor league baseball for 4 years and now im on my 5th now. Most of the teachings have done away with the elbow up. Elbow down with hands back allows quicker hands. Elbow up actually slows you hands down because you have the drop them anyway. Unless your barry bonds or albert pujols then your hands need to be down.

[casinodrama]

it does not matte rif u have your elbow up or down what ever works for you

[farmsid]

Any softball parent that watches this video, please don't get lessons for this lady. Elbow should be up and knuckles shouldn't be aligned. Myth: elbow should be down. In fact having your elbow down will ensure that me as a pitcher will cause you to jam yourself . proper hitting mechanics teach you must clear your back side, if you does this first with your elbow down it will get caught on your side thus making your swing longer, ensuring that I still get payed as a pitcher. Myth two...

[staciemahoe]

@jberkowitz7 I never said that what I demonstrate is what "modern coaching styles" are teaching. I am simply showing what I see a LOT of youth coaches teaching/players doing. Also, re:Don Slaught video clearly shows elbow NOT same height as hands prior to start of swing (Baseball Hitting Instruction by Don Slaught - Live Hands).

Good try though

[jberkowitz7]

@staciemahoe haha. i'm glad you got my sense of humor. I have spoken to Don about this at length and what he would teach is to have your elbow the same height as your hands. Obviously every hitter will have their hands at a slightly different height. In his software, Right view Pro, there are many examples of MLB and softball hitters with this position in their motion. I agree with you that many youth coaches advocate elbow up incorrectly, but elbows down is not quite right either.

[staciemahoe]

@jberkowitz7 I think it's cool that you took the time to talk with great minds to study this. Crystl has hitters start with elbow at shoulder height (but hands are still above elbow). I was never taught this, but explains why I HATED hitting the high ball. Lucky for me, I played during a time and place where ump didn't really call the high strike so it wasn't a big deal and I could foul it off if I had to.

[jberkowitz7]

The elbow up position you are illustrating in your video is not the correct position that many of the more modern coaching styles are advocating. There is a very good reason for having your elbow at the same height as your hands (your hands should be roughly at your right ear for right handed hitters), and that is that you can create a better angle to the ball from that position with attack posture. Check out Don Slaught on this topic. You will learn a lot. Good try though...

[staciemahoe]

@jberkowitz7 Also - Just had Crystl Bustos here (arguably THE best softball hitter in the world) and she does not do, nor does she teach, elbowup at the same height as the hands prior to stride/start of swing). If players later do that as a STYLE choice that's fine, but not a necessary "mechanic" of a good swing.

[BrookeLaurantv]

you look like the girl Alex from degrassi

[tafflong]

The whole reason for elbow up is to get the batter at the beginning of the weight transition from back to front while rotating the hips. It is sorta like a rubberband you pull it back and when you release you ex[plode thru the ball rotating at the hip

[staciemahoe]

@tafflong it's not like pulling a rubberband back if you already start there

[tafflong]

Most of all of your power hitters either softball or baseball all hit with their elbows up. If they do not start this way they (ready position) they go there at the beginning of their swing. I see alot of coaches teaching this elbows down thing and I personally believe you lose alot of power. By the way... the way you were holding your elbow up is incorrect and this is probably why it is so uncomfortable for you.

[staciemahoe]

@tafflong clip of one of the best in the game crystl bustos ontariofastpitch. ca/hitting-clips/20-crystal-bu­stos-olympics her elbow is no where near shoulder height ever. The way I'm holding it is the way I SEE a LOT of youth coaches teaching it! That's why I'm trying to tell them not to force that position. Don't need it.

[isabel91210]

I do the elbow up and aline the knucles and it is uncomfortable so i forget the knuckles and im in 10u and im 11 so it is true dnt teach young softball players (or baseball but im in softball) to put thier elbow up while lining up the knuckles. oh and im gonna buy a video camera and im gonna ask mi dad to film the whole game so if u see the video the title is gonna be Karli's softball game and IM #8

[unclesmacky230]

@KILLAMANJARO3 While I can find thousands of videos of major league baseball players and olympic softball players starting with the elbow up, upon heel drop, the elbow is tucked. Elbow up becomes a style preference to more experienced players, not young kids. Why put a wasted motion into a young player's swing that can upset proper swing mechanics. I'm in my 20th year of coaching baseball. Great advice Stacie.

[unclesmacky230]

I challenge elbow up proponent to produce a video reponse that shows an accomplished player with their elbow up after the heel drop. I'll save you the time..you won't find one.

@126STRNGFIT you load with your lower body, not with your elbows.

[126STRNGNFIT]

@unclesmacky230 your weight shifts to the back leg on the negative move so do the hands and elbow, cant move one without the other following to some degree. I was only focusing on that upper part,not the lower. the topic of this thread is about wether the elbow should be up or down at the start. I think its a personal preference from hitter to hitter. Up or down does not effect the mechanics as long as the elbow drops into the slot during the rotational phase of the swing.

[126STRNGNFIT]

@unclesmacky230 and the hands stay inside the ball. If taught properly there is now wasted motion regardless of the age.

[dmackcity]

do not reinvent the wheel and stop smoking

[beeto11]

Man, what a mountain of mis-information. Way too much to cover on this, but let me say...this info is way off.....

[KILLAMANJARO3]

my ten year old girls all had their elbows down and did not hit the ball well nor consistently... when i had them get the back elbow up, they hit much better.

[KILLAMANJARO3]

I would drive you nutz. I played 30 years of ball and dropping that back elbow is not entirely right. If the back elbow is up, by the time the batter has gotten into her swing, her arms and elbow drop into the level strike zone position. Yes it can be a personal pref thing. but when they are young, it is a good style to teach until she gets the basics down. Then minor tweaks can be done once she has this down. What you are teaching is incorrect, this is for older and more experienced girls.

[1ERIC2YOU]

Amen, where did this idea of elbow up come from anyway.

[mcheartbreakers]

What amazes me most about teaching hitting is the miscommunication that goes. What Stacie is saying is 100% correct. If you look at her arm position (she's at about a 45 degree angle) when she pulls the bat back, that is wrong. On the other hand, my girls have their elbows up when they load, but their arms are in an L shape. When they break the L, they lose connection. The problem is that someone else will explain the same thing a different way. The point is, find a coach & stick with them.

[YouSmiledWhenIDied]

I play fast-pitch softball, and I haven't played before this year, and before I was taught how to put my elbow up, I hit every ball, because, I didn't have to bring my arm down, and it was just there. But when I put my elbow up, I always had to bring it down, which threw my timing way off. Also, what she said about aligning your knuckles AND putting your elbow up, it's a killer, majorly uncomfortable. So thanx for the info Stacie!

[walrus108]

You cannot swing the bat with your elbow up. You can start from there, but why? Why force a kid to do it? Film yourself swinging with the elbow up and see what the first thing you do is. Your elbow comes down. You HAVE to drop your elbow first to swing the bat. The elbow up thing is kind of an old fogey thing. Your grandpa might have taught your dad to do it and he taught you but that doesn't make it right. It definitely isn't necessary. Young players need to keep the bat up, not their elbow.

[educatedkids]

i play hard ball in Elite baseball with cuban players and it is elbow half up or all the way up to your shoulders .What you say should only be done in fast pitch softball

[uwa26]

@educatedkids

Not true. While yes many pro baseball players do hit with thier back elbow up however that doesnt mean that should be taught to young players. Film yourself hittting and you will see that the first thing that happens is the back elbow comes down. While its possible that having the back elbow up creates slightly more bad speed it also makes for a longer swing. A longer swing means more chance for error. So is it all about power or solid contact?

[jugomang]

Youtube the swing mechanics of ANY professional baseball player who hits for average and power. Griffey, Ramirez, Pujols, Giambi, Ichiro, Rodriguez, etc... What will you find in common? back elbow up..... "recently visited a number of Baseball Coaching Websites" ??? please.....

[educatedkids]

or half way up not all the way up

[FewProud0311]

The reason that the elbow down theory is in place is because it eliminates a step in the hitting process. The first thing the hitter will do with elbow up is drop it during the hitting motion. This will eliminate the elbow drop and give the hitter enough time to make contact with the ball. I also love the fact that she talks about the knuckle alignment. It is also important for a nice level swing.

[126STRNGNFIT]

You can not eliminate the elbow drop as you put it. the elbow has to drop into the slot in order to keep your hands inside the ball. And wether your elbow is up or down your back elbow has to go into the loaded/launch position at the start of the motion. which if you watch any professional hitter the back elbow goes back and then upward to some degree. As I stated before the elbow up or down is a style prefference. Not a mechanical flaw

[126STRNGNFIT]

Kalena499. I read Epsteins theories years ago. Very good infomation. excellent coach as well. But I follow a higher authority in Ted Williams, who taught Mike Epstein the science hitting. Read his book The Science of Hitting and youll understand the diference between style and technique. Williams theories are the foundation for rotational hitting. Stacie Id really like to the hear your reasons for WHY elbow down would be better and is it FACT or opinion.

[staciemahoe]

@126STRNGNFIT my main point is that it's not "necessary" and shouldn't be FORCED upon young hitters who are uncomfortable with it. It's also uncomfortable if your back elbow is up and your front elbow just relaxed (or also up as some young hitters end up doing) AND you're trying to align your door knocking knuckles.

Some coaches try to make their players align door knocking knuckles AND have elbow up at start which is highly uncomfortable and not necessary before swing.

[Kyley36]

@126STRNGNFIT When your elbow is up you have to bring it down to start your swing anyway. Keeping your elbow down also eliminates the chance of young hitters dropping their back shoulder, when rushing to pull the elbow in position to hit the ball.

[126STRNGNFIT]

@Kyley36 Your kidding right?Elbow up or down is a style prefference first off. 2nd when you go into the load, what does your elbow do?...where does it go? Oh yeah UP!! That is if your planning to hit the ball with any type of power. The back elbow will seperate up from your body in some degree, some more than others, then back into the slot close to the body to get the hands on plane of pitch Point is you HAVE to load in order to hit the ball hard.

[126STRNGNFIT]

@Kyley36 And heres another tips for you unless your purposely trying to hit the ball into the ground your front hand will lead up and away pulling the front shoudler up and making the back shoulder drop thats just simple biomechanics you cant change that. And if you have to rush to ball in order to hit it, then you have a timing issue. Do you even know the difference between Linear and rotational hitting?

[Kalena499]

Thanks for clarifying Stacie - by the way, I totally agree with you about elbow down being a matter of preference and also agree that you cannot easily line up knocking knuckles (which is critical to clean - on-plane contact) with the elbow up.

[staciemahoe]

Guys - the main point I'm trying to make (and maybe not doing such a good job of) is that elbow UP should NOT be taught as a "must-do" or as an absolute of hitting. Yes, there are reasons why down can be better but even that is not necessary as a starting point.

126STRNGNFIT is right: up or down is a preference, not a flaw and not part of mechanics

Just don't agree with coaches insisting players keep the elbow up.

[Kalena499]

She makes alot of sense but fails to explain more around why elbow should be down. It is important to distinguish between "style" (elbow up) and "technique" or an absolute (elbow down). Reegardless if a batter starts with the elbow up or down, what becomes critically important to the swing is whether the back elbow properly "slots" at swing launch. Read up a little on Mike Epstein's studies.

[126STRNGNFIT]

Elbow up or elbow down is the prefference of the hitter. Its nothing more than the style of that particular hitter. It has NO bearing what so ever on the mechanics of the swing it self as long as the hitter is going into a proper loading position.which WILL be elbow up!How high up is AGAIN up to the hitter and what works for them.But we can all agree that the elbow will be up and away to some degree. As long as the basic principles are followed.Elbow up is a style prefference, not techique flaw

[zulu9BC]

Very good point, I still see coaches in the Lower Mainland of BC still teaching this to mostly younger players. Not a good practice ....... that is standing in your stance like this prior to the pitch. You only need to do the "move" to elbow up and see how tense your muscles become, then put it down and see how relaxed your pecs, triceps, etc...become......remember a relaxed muscle reacts much faster than a tensed muscle......bat speed = hand speed while relaxed !

[PEPPERSFARMS]

Ive been to a few hitting camps softball and baseball these camps were by some of the top college coaches and all them advocated elbows down. Like your sitting at a dinner table with your elbows on the table. The baseball coach I dont recall his name, but we were told he has sent more college kids to the majors than any other coach. He was actually a quest speaker at one of the softball camps

[KILLAMANJARO3]

@PEPPERSFARMS this is for older expe3rienced players.. the younger are taught with the elbow up and should be until she gets the basics down... the pitching for younger is slower and if her elbow is down, she will drop it to far down when hitting... the pitching speed is a huge factor in how one holds the bat.

[silvershell4]

i always keep my elbow up and i hit bombs wen i play softball.....

[zulu9BC]

I bet they are high fly balls.......?

[otroe1]

The MLB logo guy has his elbow up!

[1221961]

Amazing lack of understanding of hitting consistently. Look at most of the top level hitters and the back elbow is up and also back during load.

Last thing there is no difference between a high level baseball swing and softball swing.

[zulu9BC]

There are subtle differences, they are not the same. Especially when you throw in the slap, not a baseball concept and is a fastpitch softball batting technique.

[staciemahoe]

@1221961 Key words in your comment "during load" I'm not talking about load position of the elbow in this clip ;)

If you already start with elbow there, you can't "load" into that position.

[AAADCJ]

omg you are NOT supposed to have your elbow up when you play softb allllllllll

[staciemahoe]

Let's definitely be clear on that - dropping the hands is definitely bad. While I feel relaxed arms and elbows are good in general, even that is not not "necessary" as a starting point.

Can batters still hit well with the "elbow up" as a start? Sure, but there's no good reason to FORCE a batter to start with that stance if that's not what's comfortable for them. It's not a necessary to start that way (elbow up) to hit well and can actually cause more harm than good.

[max66bhs]

Please, do not misunderstand this woman when she says "elbow down." The grip is one thing but if you drop your hands at anytime during your swing and you are facing a rise ball pitcher, which is about 99% of the pitchers you will swing under the pitch or pop up. Hands up, elbow down...not both.