The General is against waterboarding and torture under normal circumstances just read the U.S counterinsurgency manual that he wrote and his past comments on this issue! The case he is talking about is a specific and extremely rare case that involves possibly millions of lives dieing. He is against torture and waterboarding in any other circumstance because one not touring is the right thing to do and two its the expedient thing not to torture just look up his past comments on the issue!
Any academic intellectual leaves doors open to new solutions that may be necessary in times of extreme situations that have not yet surfaced.
Commanders must stay flexible. And they must leave those solutions hanging in the air for a certain caliber of criminal that may not be dissuaded any other way than to be frightened out of their terror.
Ron Paul salivating at Rick Perry treason corruption scandal! Bobby Jindal nervously watches; "Mr RICK PERRY! I am hereby filing a lawsuit against you for treason, racketeering and conspiracy! You thought you could just sweep 6 billion dollars under the rug?? Newsflash MR PERRY..I'VE GOT THE DOCUMENT! Clown.I am indicting you on youtube for now while the Supreme Court reviews the paperwork for a showdown the likes of which the high courts have never seen!" Good Day Mr Perry. Steve Spell2
Only a complete moron says "this all got here by accident! It created itself!" So please, amuse me with your criticism. And I'm curious to know what news flash you got that reveals all the "innocent" people at Guantonamo. "Torture" is loosely defined. They are not being harmed. And if some of it is scary or stressful to them, I'm utterly revolted that you think even that is wrong. We're not interrogating them for fun, the reason we're interrogating them is...oh...forget it..
@NUTCASE71733 First of all, I wasn't referring to scientists, but atheists. There are actually more creationist scientists than atheists. That doesn't mean they're Bible-believing Christians, but they believe in a divine creator. Really, any scientist who is an atheist might be the most ignorant person of all. It's nearly impossible to study the universe, the complexity of cells, the universe, and all of nature; and conclude it all got here randomly created itself.
Wow an argument ad populum and a bigoted insult to athiests in one post. Just because there are more bible-beleiving christians doesnt mean anything. If anything the fundies who are lobbying to infect our government to subject everyone else are a extreme minority comparable to athiests. Athiests just want to be left alone to get on with their lives. The reason scientists are mostly athiest is because science by definition cannot let the supernatural into the fold.
@NUTCASE71733 In terms of "atheists just want to be left alone" I've never harrassed an atheist in my life. Nor have any of my Christian friends. Some of my other friends ARE athiest, or agnostic. We don't live in a plastic bubble. Who gets harrassed? Watch nearly every late night talk show or movie. Look at what happens in the schools. If your shirt has a picture of Marilyn Manson licking an upside down cross it's fine, but put a Bible verse and somebody gets offended.
NOBODY GETS HARRASED? So I guess Westboro Baptist Church harrasing people at funerals and at comic book conventions is ok? What about that asshat Jerry Falwell who blamed 9/11 on gays and abortion doctors, who are what people like you beleive athiests want to have dominate the world? Let's not forget Pat Robertson's heartless comment when Intelligent Design got destroyed in the Dover Trial? "Don't pray to god if a disaster comes because you kicked god out"? That's harrassment!
And don't give me that bullshit about "not true christians". These people follow the bible to the letter. Especially westboro baptist church. It's ok to beleive in god, but try to subvert the public to your beleifs will cause trouble. That's why bible verses are not appreciated. Your statement of Manson licking a cross? It's a fucking T-Shirt moron. It doesn't show hate toward anyone of any sort. The bible has hate to all who aren't christian, which is why people dislike it.
And don't give me that bullshit about "not true christians". These people follow the bible to the letter. Especially westboro baptist church. It's ok to beleive in god, but try to subvert the public to your beleifs will cause trouble. That's why bible verses are not appreciated. Your statement of Manson licking a cross? It's a fucking T-Shirt moron. It doesn't show hate toward anyone of any sort. The bible has hate to all who aren't christian, which is why people dislike it.
@NUTCASE71733 Westboro Baptist Church? If you wanted to, you'd note the MILLIONS of Christians who are utterly disgusted with what he's doing. You can't study Christ's life and conclude they are true Christians. A true Christian is one who is Christ like and loves his neighbor. And if someone makes light of the cross (which happens 24 hours a day in this country) it's offensive. It shows hate towards Christ, and all followers of Him. But really, it's sad. Christ loves you; you don't care.
Also in regards to the supernatural, for it to be confirmed by science, itcannot be considered supernatural. If a ghost is proven to exist, the ghost cannot be considered a supernatural phenomena anymore as it can be demonstrated by the scientific method. Secondly, we're still trying to figure out all the answers. The fact we don't know everything is no excuse to say god did it. As a beleiver in god myself, I find that tremendously arrogant and childish.
Also in regards to the supernatural, for it to be confirmed by science, it cannot be considered supernatural. If a ghost is proven to exist, the ghost cannot be considered a supernatural phenomena anymore as it can be demonstrated by the scientific method. Secondly, we're still trying to figure out all the answers. The fact we don't know everything is no excuse to say god did it. As a beleiver in god myself, I find that tremendously arrogant and childish.
FINALLY, if God did create everything, it's apparent by all the evidence found that he did not do it in six literal days 6000 years ago, mankind was not made from dust, there was no global flood the likes of which Noah allegedly encountered, no evidence for the tower of bable, sodom, or gamorah. We do have red/blue shift, microwave background radiation, an expanding universe, fossils, DNA, ect. All of which confirm that A) The universe is anceint. B) Evolution happens.
On a special note I really don't see why religious people object to science so much. Many christians see Scientists as helping us get closer to god by understanding how he made the universe the way he apparently did. And the idea of all life decsending from a common point into the amazing diversity we have today is a true miracle. I find that honestly more exciting and worthwile of study than just the simple "Goddunit" answer. That is not good enough as it tells you nothing.
@NUTCASE71733 I would really suggest you get to know a true-Bible believing Christian. It is amazing to me the misconceptions you have. There are MANY scientists who are Christian! In fact, some scientists eventually become Christian BECAUSE of their scientific studies. They are also doctors, business owners, and everything else. For the record: Christians are not against science at all! But, through science, we know matter cannot be created nor destroyed - that's where faith comes in.
Yes, faith. Faith is a cop-out, it tells you nothing. The idea of christians being scientists is irrelavent, especially given how Ken Miller, a devout Catholic, would sooner disagree with everything you say about evolution as a whole. And don't use the argument regading modynamis. That applies to a closed system. The universe and the planet earth are not closed systems, and neither is DNA.
@NUTCASE71733 You know, Einstein, you have faith either way. Many who claim to be atheists will believe in ghosts, ufo's, check their astrology reading, pray to dead relatives, or all other sorts of things that require a whole lot more faith that knowing there is a God. In fact, saying there's no God takes greater faith than just coming to the pretty logical conclusion that there is a God. Think about it. Your willfull blindness is between you and God.
OK. Unless you can show me an Atom bomb for everyone tortured--everyone of you that spouts this BS should be in Leavenworth. TURN OFF 24, General, IT IS FICTION!!! In a past life did these people work for the inquisition?
Torture delivered bin Laden, and who gets the credit? Obama, who did everything he could to take as much credit as possible...who was wanting to close Guantanamo. (still hasn't) Liberals are so convinced they're smart they can't step back and see their complete idiocy as the rest of us do.
@DCussen You will find money - not torure go Vin Laden - Who was not hiding in a hut but a mansion (in Afghanistan standards( for over a year - Great work on the CIA - Took em that long to find a guy even the neighbours knew was living in luxury . . . Complete with porn, tv and a microwave . . . In Afghanistan where most of the country is impoverished. Torture - is against the Geneva Concention and we would be the first to complain when it may be done on our own - Oops, we do torture our own.
@SeanMBryans Pakistan lied to us. They knew. We would've had bin Laden five years ago if the local Afghans hadn't turned against us in the last minute. Our CIA is pretty awesome, but can be hampered by relationships with unscrupulous groups - but sometimes that's the only option. We finally got it done ourselves. America rocks, as always. In terms of torture, none of those prisoners have been harmed. Three meals a day and supplied with a stupid Koran? Torture? They have it pretty good.
"In terms of torture, none of those prisoners have been harmed. Three meals a day and supplied with a stupid Koran? Torture? They have it pretty good."
So... According to you it is okay to torture people just aslong as you don't do any long-term physical harm and give them three meals a day and give them a book to read?
BS! And if you really think that then you are a despicable person.
Tortue is bad, no matter how it is being done, and for what purpose.
@thedutchman01 DUDE - these are people who hide weapons in schools & mosques. These are people who have no problem blowing up police stations, restaurants, voting offices....whatever. They behead prisoners. They execute women in public squares. They're getting off way to easy, and I would have NO PROBLEM removing their fingers one at a time if it could prevent another 9/11 or 747 blowing up in the air. I care about innocent people. Maybe you should.
And how are you any better then them if you use tactics (in this case torture) that are just as vile?
The middle ages are long since behind us and we as humans should know better then to use tortue. Ofcourse due to creationist and tea-party idiots the US is going back in time towards Salem times. But we should all know better then that and we should all speak horros of this.
Also. How do you know that all those people were/are guilty without a real trial?
@thedutchman01 Yah, tea party idiots...people who want to keep more of the money they make instead of watching it go down a rat hole of an already bloated government...how dare they. Oh, creationists...actually thinking the universe was created by God....crazy. If you're so interested in "the innocent", protect their rights, not terrorists.
I am all for protecting innocents. Including those who are unjustly being held on grounds of terrorism, and are being tortured eventhough they are innocent.
But that's besides the point. Torture is not something to encourage and I say that everyone who thinks that torture should be allowed is a despicable humanbeing. But what can one expect from a creatard like yourself judging by your YT-profile. Lord knows the bible condones torture. He does it all the time.
Ask yourself (before making up your mind) what you would do to someone that has kidnapped your Mother, knows where she is and the clock is ticking on her life if you don't get the information you need to rescue her.
It wouldn't matter how I "felt" about it, you shouldn't base intelligence gathering policy on what your emotions would be in an extreme situation. Jesus christ, thats just insane.
Plus your analogy's completely useless in the first place because whats really on the table is NOT torturing someone once during an extreme situation, but making a general practice out of it everytime we run into a scenario where lives are judged to be at risk (cont)
@Pervyable The subject was being discussed as an "absolute". The scenario is still as stated. Answer the hypothetical that was actually posed. We all have our own personal limitations on what we will do "IF"??????
Should you choose to reiterate your answer, you're lying to yourself ... or don't love anything or anybody enough to compromise what can only be characterized as a naive position.
I don't hold anything as an absolute so if you want to know if I'm against torture in every single scenario imaginable then the answer is no I couldn't possibly say that faced with a extreme situation I wouldn't give in to my baser instinct and behave irrationaly. However this is a useless discussion as most likely neither one of us will be faced with this choice, and its definetly not what the debates about now. (cont)
Whats naive about my not wanting torture instituted as a general policy in the intelligence gathering community? If anything I think that your position on this issue is naive as you actually think that if we allowed this to happen it wouldn't become a serious problem.
@Pervyable That wasn't the scenario. Answer the hypothetical that was actually posed. We all have our own personal limitations on what we will do "IF"??????
I'm not going to nearly kill or break this person in such a way that the punishment is inhumane and unjust. Yes my mother may die, so be it. I'm not going to allow myself to droop to such a low disgusting pathetic level that I nearly kill another to save one as even then there is no guarantee.
@mclanta "Yes my mother may die, so be it. I'm not going to allow myself to droop to such a low disgusting pathetic level that I nearly kill another to save one as even then there is no guarantee."
So that answer to your Mother, I'm sure she'll enjoy knowing how little you value her life.
You must be either young and naive, or cold inside.
I would gladly pull out each of your teeth ... slowly, one at a time, until you give me the information I would need to save my Mom.
Asking Obama to replace this guy is hilarious. As if Obama is hearing this Petraeus position for the very first time. Something changed Petraeus' mind between the time he was a military man and the time when he was presented for confirmation. Gee, I wonder who could have been involved in motivating that little epiphany? Concluding that Olbermann is more stupid than Obama is a kindness.
does it make me a bad guy that i agree with petreus on the "jack Bauer Situation" if you only got 30 minutes, what do you have to lose, might as well start inflicting pain as a last resort, but only under those "Jack Bauer Situations", does that make me a non Progressive?, I hope not, i'm very progressive on most things.
I hate those kind of left-wingers, too, that's why we're _Progressive_ liberals. Lol, we aren't like that, we're the *good* kind of liberals! Lol. Like, I mean the kind that wanna legalize pot, not the kind that wanna ban video games from kids.
Secondly if there was a nuclear device under the empire state building as he stated, it would be his own people who placed it there. Every single so called 'terrorist' attack has been with the help of the intelligent agencies where they have actually GIVEN the bombs to the so called 'terrorists'.
It's all about creating FEAR and making money. It's even in the army's own training manual on how to create false flags so as to BENEFIT. The war is on you!
Even Jack Bauer was prepared to face the consequences of his actions. On a case by case basis...if one truly felt it was necessary to cross the line in order to save lives...who cares about any penalty? Do what you must...but be ready to face the music for it. It should NEVER be state sanctioned in other words.
I'm wondering how long it will take for the news shows to have rich man Chertoff come on the screen telling viewers his "gut feelings" are acting up again.
If the government used that example of "a man has a nuke somewhere and you have to torture him to find out where it is" scenario, they can easily justify trying to take EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR LIBERTIES.
@dgl1962 It's the typical "save the children" technique. "Your not against saving the children, are you?"
A classic psy-op technique to gain control over a population through emotional triggers.
The 'nuke' scenario is no different, it's to justify their actions with the public. "You need us, to protect you!". If the public figured out that we don't need them, that their wars are completely fabricated, their money supply would dry up and is what Dwight D. Eisenhower warned people about.
@haeresy That's right, whenever I hear "it's for the safety of the children" (usually from leftwing statists like Hillary) red flags pop up and warn me that someone is trying to diminish my liberties, grow the coercive force of the government, confiscate my guns and add to my taxes.
LOL! A Nuclear bomb with a timer on it! And then you need the "codes" to turn it off! LOL! Straight out of a "Die Hard" movie! If a terrorist ever got a Nuke inside the United States, believe me...they wouldn't have a timer on it!
@Humpahna Absolutely. It would detonate at any time they felt like it. What did these intelligence people learn from 9/11? People who are certain they are dealing with ultimate evil and that they must die to get cookies from Allah does not flinch in the face of their own deaths, and they certainly do not put a timer on a nuke.
Olbermann would classify self defense in the face of certain mass destruction, as torture and so he would not defend himself from someone who by direct knowledge can permit the death of millions or deny that catastrophe. So, a total pacifist must be prepared to die, and not harm a suspect, but a pacifist cannot decide for the society, because Society has another rule, "Self Defense" means resistance to the pain , and death of the enemy, and that includes torture as self defense.
@CarmineFragione Torture who? Who are you going to torture? There will not be a ticking timebomb, only a bomb and some madmen yelling Allah as they pull the trigger.
If you commit torture there will be an eternity of hate; generations upon generations can use the truth; terrorists win with every torture, every violation of the constitution, for every death in their lands.
@CarmineFragione Your response is quite asinine and illogical. Where do YOU draw the line? Who decides WHO has intelligence it is worthy to torture in order to get? If you are accused of foreknowledge of something...even if that assumption is false...who decides if YOU should be tortured? And if the torturer is so convinced...what is to stop them from threatening your loved ones...your children...spouse? After all...you believe the end justifies the means by your idiotic stance.
"If you beat this prick long enough... he'll tell you who started the goddamn Chicago Fire; that doesn't necessarily make it FUCKING SO!" - Nice Guy Eddie
What the hell does Olbermann know about war, torture or anything else? If we let this guy advise us on security, we'd have Sharia law within six months.
Torturing people isn't the answer.. how is that not obvious? how insidious can they be trying to spread an agenda by pretending like its in rare cases.. yuck..
The reason certain elements in the state are eager to maintain the "right" to torture is NOT because they are convinced such methods are valuable intel gathering tools.
It's because it is an effective means to ACQUIRE FALSE CONFESSIONS, which they can then present to the Congress and the public as "legit" reason to pursue whatever pre-ordained fascist schemes they already had in mind.
Remember Bill Clinton started the renditions program in 1995, Democrats have never been a party of peace. They only give lip service to peace, never practicing it just as the Republicans.
Here's the pro-torture crowd doesn't get - when you torture somebody, they'll say ANYTHING to get it to stop. They'll lie their pants off, say anything at all, as long as it makes the torture stop. It's been proven time and time again that a skilled interrogator using mind games is able to get more valuable information than those who use torture.
Another (perhaps even more sinister) dimension of the tortured being "willing to say anything to make it stop" is the intentional use of such techniques NOT to gather intel, but to essentially coerce people into making FALSE CONFESSIONS.
I don't think our sermons about the unreliability of torture are really "news" to the intel community itself. Their dogged defense of these practices is likely rooted in their POLITICAL utility (ie. able to tell public "we have intel for WMDs".)
KO was spot on with his comment. My jaw dropped when I heard Petraeus say he thought reserving torture for the old and oft debunked "24" nuke scenario was valid. The stupidity that streams from all sides of our gov't anymore beggars belief. It's no wonder this country is in the sad condition it is when the place is run by wall to wall nutcases.
This is what inevitably happens when political life is monopolized by a segment of society. This is no abbheration, but inherent to "representative" government. Any such system where decisions affecting the many will be made by the few (oligarchy) WILL end this way. Citizen democracy, and emergent self-governance are the only way to avoid these problems.
We need to spend less time with watching sports or "reality tv" and devote that energy to running our own communities.
@ismeme I was expelled from the toronto school board as a child for punchin Keifers face in..... his grandfather is turnin in his grave over what a sell-out drunkin loser he is. Wish I would have stomped him into retardation : )
Olbermann doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Petreus was talking about a very specific, though unlikely case in which torture is o.k. This doesn't contradict his earlier remarks against it. I hate it sometimes when Olbermann exaggerates or bullshits to make his own personal point. THAT is what can hurt his credibility sometimes and makes him too much like a right-wing FOX moron in those cases.
I disagree. This has every appearance of being a "qualification" to curry favor with certain elements within the CIA - at the very least a "nod" that they don't have to be concerned about consequences for past misdeeds.
These people don't waste their breath when on record like this.
I'm also unclear how this makes Keith "like FOX", other than perhaps its brighter points (like Judge Napolitano on FOX Business)? Like the judge, he's not an ironclad partisan.
True - but giving legal immunity DOES mean that more such things will occur. I think that's the point for those realistic persons (with no illusions about the U.S government) who oppose giving a legal framework to such activities.
the General disgraced our uniform by condoning torture...we have lost any moral highground we could have claimed long ago when we employed sadistict bastards to carry out torture
The problem with the "ticking timebomb" scenario is that an authoritarian interrogator is always going to think there is a timebomb somewhere, even if there isn't one. They have very active imaginations.
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Precisely. The whole thing stinks of a pretext to justify the new "passport state" the U.S feds are trying to create. There are real concerns as to how they'll manage such a populous people when the REAL economic crisis comes.
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@Adipatus Civilians kids are kidnapped all the time and parents dont use torture, they let the police handle it, and we know for a fact that torture doesnt work on such people as effectively as friending them does.
You torture them, they will say whatever it takes to stop the torture, especially lie or tell you what you think is the truth, whether it is or not.
You're making a mistake common to people who argue horrors to liberty in the name of "what if" scenarios.
Namely, that in the REAL WORLD people do things for reasons. And there is a context within which persons are captured. That dictates what you know about what they know, and what your leverage is with such people.
You and those like you (in the name of watching too much TV) are paving a road to hell.
I can understand why we would never want to torcher an enemy soldier, that person is following orders from their government it's not personal. Why do we feel we should extend rights to some religious suicidal nut case? The general was talking about a highly unlikely situation a what if, if we have 30min I want the government to do everything possible to stop it, wouldn't you? Olberman wants that guy to have his rights put Olberman under the statue with him.
@sintruder So we have to lower ourselves like the enemy? Beside that, it has never been proven that torture extracts anything other than what the interrogator wants to hear. Maybe you would like it if your loved ones were interrogated or even raped to extract information, because there is documented evidence that rape of women and children has been used by "Blackwater". Does that somehow make you feel more patriotic?
Do you work for Fox? I tell you what if it is you family in peril I hope the government does everything in it's power to respect the people involved rights. I've heard of selective hearing but not selective reading. The & I hesitate to use the word people who are blowing up schools or are killing the superstious in their churches they get no sympathy from me. If the mercs at Blackwater want to hurt inocents to get information they are no better than the terrorists. Re read what I wrote, jerk off
We got the old Keith Olberman back...the one that was a counterbalance to the destructive policies of Bush. Looks like he's finally onboard with attacking the dumb crap Obama is doing too
This government "Does not torture" people just like Libya is a "Kinetic Action"
You'd have to be one dishonest piece of shit to not look at those statements and not at least consider burning the system that allowed that to the ground.
It depends how you mean. The KGB is more overtly brutal, and more to the point aims more of its "obvious" malice at fellow (Russian) citizens.
OTOH it could be said Uncle Sam is MUCH "shiftier" as it tends to manage the U.S population through a much subtler brand of propaganda, and tends to export the worst of its violence.
BOTH are manipulative and deceitful - and even counting the "Soviet years", it's highly debatable which is bloodier.
The General is against waterboarding and torture under normal circumstances just read the U.S counterinsurgency manual that he wrote and his past comments on this issue! The case he is talking about is a specific and extremely rare case that involves possibly millions of lives dieing. He is against torture and waterboarding in any other circumstance because one not touring is the right thing to do and two its the expedient thing not to torture just look up his past comments on the issue!
jmcdowell119 3 weeks ago
Never close doors. That makes you an extremist.
Any academic intellectual leaves doors open to new solutions that may be necessary in times of extreme situations that have not yet surfaced.
Commanders must stay flexible. And they must leave those solutions hanging in the air for a certain caliber of criminal that may not be dissuaded any other way than to be frightened out of their terror.
eastariel 1 month ago
Waterboarding never killed anyone. Even democrats admit 'denhanced interrogation techniques got them critical intelligence.
This premis is bogus. We are in a war, they want to kill us. You liberals are morons, and marxist indoctrinated frauds feigning morality.
Also you use over the top allegations with faux moral outrage, pretenders. Who still buys that charade?
mjswans 4 months ago
lets forget about torture and do like obama is doing, let the drones wipe them out...
tenderangel46 4 months ago
Ron Paul salivating at Rick Perry treason corruption scandal! Bobby Jindal nervously watches; "Mr RICK PERRY! I am hereby filing a lawsuit against you for treason, racketeering and conspiracy! You thought you could just sweep 6 billion dollars under the rug?? Newsflash MR PERRY..I'VE GOT THE DOCUMENT! Clown.I am indicting you on youtube for now while the Supreme Court reviews the paperwork for a showdown the likes of which the high courts have never seen!" Good Day Mr Perry. Steve Spell2
stevespell2 6 months ago
The torture proponents have watched too much 24. YOU CAN'T GET INFO BY STABBING SOMEONE IN THE KNEES!!!
redshark618 6 months ago
Only a complete moron says "this all got here by accident! It created itself!" So please, amuse me with your criticism. And I'm curious to know what news flash you got that reveals all the "innocent" people at Guantonamo. "Torture" is loosely defined. They are not being harmed. And if some of it is scary or stressful to them, I'm utterly revolted that you think even that is wrong. We're not interrogating them for fun, the reason we're interrogating them is...oh...forget it..
DCussen 6 months ago
@DCussen
"Only a complete moron says "this all got here by accident! It created itself!"
Exactly. Scientists never say that happened anyway, but creationists lie and say they do. Breech of the 9th commandment, you're going to hell. ;)
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 First of all, I wasn't referring to scientists, but atheists. There are actually more creationist scientists than atheists. That doesn't mean they're Bible-believing Christians, but they believe in a divine creator. Really, any scientist who is an atheist might be the most ignorant person of all. It's nearly impossible to study the universe, the complexity of cells, the universe, and all of nature; and conclude it all got here randomly created itself.
DCussen 5 months ago
@DCussen
Wow an argument ad populum and a bigoted insult to athiests in one post. Just because there are more bible-beleiving christians doesnt mean anything. If anything the fundies who are lobbying to infect our government to subject everyone else are a extreme minority comparable to athiests. Athiests just want to be left alone to get on with their lives. The reason scientists are mostly athiest is because science by definition cannot let the supernatural into the fold.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 In terms of "atheists just want to be left alone" I've never harrassed an atheist in my life. Nor have any of my Christian friends. Some of my other friends ARE athiest, or agnostic. We don't live in a plastic bubble. Who gets harrassed? Watch nearly every late night talk show or movie. Look at what happens in the schools. If your shirt has a picture of Marilyn Manson licking an upside down cross it's fine, but put a Bible verse and somebody gets offended.
DCussen 5 months ago
@DCussen
NOBODY GETS HARRASED? So I guess Westboro Baptist Church harrasing people at funerals and at comic book conventions is ok? What about that asshat Jerry Falwell who blamed 9/11 on gays and abortion doctors, who are what people like you beleive athiests want to have dominate the world? Let's not forget Pat Robertson's heartless comment when Intelligent Design got destroyed in the Dover Trial? "Don't pray to god if a disaster comes because you kicked god out"? That's harrassment!
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@DCussen
And don't give me that bullshit about "not true christians". These people follow the bible to the letter. Especially westboro baptist church. It's ok to beleive in god, but try to subvert the public to your beleifs will cause trouble. That's why bible verses are not appreciated. Your statement of Manson licking a cross? It's a fucking T-Shirt moron. It doesn't show hate toward anyone of any sort. The bible has hate to all who aren't christian, which is why people dislike it.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@DCussen
And don't give me that bullshit about "not true christians". These people follow the bible to the letter. Especially westboro baptist church. It's ok to beleive in god, but try to subvert the public to your beleifs will cause trouble. That's why bible verses are not appreciated. Your statement of Manson licking a cross? It's a fucking T-Shirt moron. It doesn't show hate toward anyone of any sort. The bible has hate to all who aren't christian, which is why people dislike it.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Westboro Baptist Church? If you wanted to, you'd note the MILLIONS of Christians who are utterly disgusted with what he's doing. You can't study Christ's life and conclude they are true Christians. A true Christian is one who is Christ like and loves his neighbor. And if someone makes light of the cross (which happens 24 hours a day in this country) it's offensive. It shows hate towards Christ, and all followers of Him. But really, it's sad. Christ loves you; you don't care.
DCussen 5 months ago
@DCussen
Also in regards to the supernatural, for it to be confirmed by science, itcannot be considered supernatural. If a ghost is proven to exist, the ghost cannot be considered a supernatural phenomena anymore as it can be demonstrated by the scientific method. Secondly, we're still trying to figure out all the answers. The fact we don't know everything is no excuse to say god did it. As a beleiver in god myself, I find that tremendously arrogant and childish.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
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@DCussen
Also in regards to the supernatural, for it to be confirmed by science, it cannot be considered supernatural. If a ghost is proven to exist, the ghost cannot be considered a supernatural phenomena anymore as it can be demonstrated by the scientific method. Secondly, we're still trying to figure out all the answers. The fact we don't know everything is no excuse to say god did it. As a beleiver in god myself, I find that tremendously arrogant and childish.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@DCussen
FINALLY, if God did create everything, it's apparent by all the evidence found that he did not do it in six literal days 6000 years ago, mankind was not made from dust, there was no global flood the likes of which Noah allegedly encountered, no evidence for the tower of bable, sodom, or gamorah. We do have red/blue shift, microwave background radiation, an expanding universe, fossils, DNA, ect. All of which confirm that A) The universe is anceint. B) Evolution happens.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@DCussen
On a special note I really don't see why religious people object to science so much. Many christians see Scientists as helping us get closer to god by understanding how he made the universe the way he apparently did. And the idea of all life decsending from a common point into the amazing diversity we have today is a true miracle. I find that honestly more exciting and worthwile of study than just the simple "Goddunit" answer. That is not good enough as it tells you nothing.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 I would really suggest you get to know a true-Bible believing Christian. It is amazing to me the misconceptions you have. There are MANY scientists who are Christian! In fact, some scientists eventually become Christian BECAUSE of their scientific studies. They are also doctors, business owners, and everything else. For the record: Christians are not against science at all! But, through science, we know matter cannot be created nor destroyed - that's where faith comes in.
DCussen 5 months ago
@DCussen
Yes, faith. Faith is a cop-out, it tells you nothing. The idea of christians being scientists is irrelavent, especially given how Ken Miller, a devout Catholic, would sooner disagree with everything you say about evolution as a whole. And don't use the argument regading modynamis. That applies to a closed system. The universe and the planet earth are not closed systems, and neither is DNA.
NUTCASE71733 5 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 You know, Einstein, you have faith either way. Many who claim to be atheists will believe in ghosts, ufo's, check their astrology reading, pray to dead relatives, or all other sorts of things that require a whole lot more faith that knowing there is a God. In fact, saying there's no God takes greater faith than just coming to the pretty logical conclusion that there is a God. Think about it. Your willfull blindness is between you and God.
DCussen 5 months ago
OK. Unless you can show me an Atom bomb for everyone tortured--everyone of you that spouts this BS should be in Leavenworth. TURN OFF 24, General, IT IS FICTION!!! In a past life did these people work for the inquisition?
GSfreebooks 7 months ago
Torture delivered bin Laden, and who gets the credit? Obama, who did everything he could to take as much credit as possible...who was wanting to close Guantanamo. (still hasn't) Liberals are so convinced they're smart they can't step back and see their complete idiocy as the rest of us do.
DCussen 7 months ago
@DCussen You will find money - not torure go Vin Laden - Who was not hiding in a hut but a mansion (in Afghanistan standards( for over a year - Great work on the CIA - Took em that long to find a guy even the neighbours knew was living in luxury . . . Complete with porn, tv and a microwave . . . In Afghanistan where most of the country is impoverished. Torture - is against the Geneva Concention and we would be the first to complain when it may be done on our own - Oops, we do torture our own.
SeanMBryans 6 months ago
@SeanMBryans Pakistan lied to us. They knew. We would've had bin Laden five years ago if the local Afghans hadn't turned against us in the last minute. Our CIA is pretty awesome, but can be hampered by relationships with unscrupulous groups - but sometimes that's the only option. We finally got it done ourselves. America rocks, as always. In terms of torture, none of those prisoners have been harmed. Three meals a day and supplied with a stupid Koran? Torture? They have it pretty good.
DCussen 6 months ago
@DCussen
"In terms of torture, none of those prisoners have been harmed. Three meals a day and supplied with a stupid Koran? Torture? They have it pretty good."
So... According to you it is okay to torture people just aslong as you don't do any long-term physical harm and give them three meals a day and give them a book to read?
BS! And if you really think that then you are a despicable person.
Tortue is bad, no matter how it is being done, and for what purpose.
thedutchman01 6 months ago
@thedutchman01 DUDE - these are people who hide weapons in schools & mosques. These are people who have no problem blowing up police stations, restaurants, voting offices....whatever. They behead prisoners. They execute women in public squares. They're getting off way to easy, and I would have NO PROBLEM removing their fingers one at a time if it could prevent another 9/11 or 747 blowing up in the air. I care about innocent people. Maybe you should.
DCussen 6 months ago
@DCussen
And how are you any better then them if you use tactics (in this case torture) that are just as vile?
The middle ages are long since behind us and we as humans should know better then to use tortue. Ofcourse due to creationist and tea-party idiots the US is going back in time towards Salem times. But we should all know better then that and we should all speak horros of this.
Also. How do you know that all those people were/are guilty without a real trial?
Even 1 innocent is bad enough.
thedutchman01 6 months ago
@thedutchman01 Yah, tea party idiots...people who want to keep more of the money they make instead of watching it go down a rat hole of an already bloated government...how dare they. Oh, creationists...actually thinking the universe was created by God....crazy. If you're so interested in "the innocent", protect their rights, not terrorists.
DCussen 6 months ago
@DCussen
I am all for protecting innocents. Including those who are unjustly being held on grounds of terrorism, and are being tortured eventhough they are innocent.
But that's besides the point. Torture is not something to encourage and I say that everyone who thinks that torture should be allowed is a despicable humanbeing. But what can one expect from a creatard like yourself judging by your YT-profile. Lord knows the bible condones torture. He does it all the time.
thedutchman01 6 months ago
because a news anchor knows more about war than a general....
thortun15 7 months ago
Torture?
Ask yourself (before making up your mind) what you would do to someone that has kidnapped your Mother, knows where she is and the clock is ticking on her life if you don't get the information you need to rescue her.
Now, how do you REALLY feel about torture.
grizzzlyjoe 7 months ago
@grizzzlyjoe
It wouldn't matter how I "felt" about it, you shouldn't base intelligence gathering policy on what your emotions would be in an extreme situation. Jesus christ, thats just insane.
Plus your analogy's completely useless in the first place because whats really on the table is NOT torturing someone once during an extreme situation, but making a general practice out of it everytime we run into a scenario where lives are judged to be at risk (cont)
Pervyable 7 months ago
@Pervyable The subject was being discussed as an "absolute". The scenario is still as stated. Answer the hypothetical that was actually posed. We all have our own personal limitations on what we will do "IF"??????
Should you choose to reiterate your answer, you're lying to yourself ... or don't love anything or anybody enough to compromise what can only be characterized as a naive position.
grizzzlyjoe 7 months ago
@grizzzlyjoe
I don't hold anything as an absolute so if you want to know if I'm against torture in every single scenario imaginable then the answer is no I couldn't possibly say that faced with a extreme situation I wouldn't give in to my baser instinct and behave irrationaly. However this is a useless discussion as most likely neither one of us will be faced with this choice, and its definetly not what the debates about now. (cont)
Pervyable 7 months ago
@grizzzlyjoe
Whats naive about my not wanting torture instituted as a general policy in the intelligence gathering community? If anything I think that your position on this issue is naive as you actually think that if we allowed this to happen it wouldn't become a serious problem.
Pervyable 7 months ago
@grizzzlyjoe
or we have someone we judge to have knowledge of a future terrorist attack.
Pervyable 7 months ago
@Pervyable That wasn't the scenario. Answer the hypothetical that was actually posed. We all have our own personal limitations on what we will do "IF"??????
grizzzlyjoe 7 months ago
@grizzzlyjoe
I'm not going to nearly kill or break this person in such a way that the punishment is inhumane and unjust. Yes my mother may die, so be it. I'm not going to allow myself to droop to such a low disgusting pathetic level that I nearly kill another to save one as even then there is no guarantee.
mclanta 7 months ago
@mclanta "Yes my mother may die, so be it. I'm not going to allow myself to droop to such a low disgusting pathetic level that I nearly kill another to save one as even then there is no guarantee."
So that answer to your Mother, I'm sure she'll enjoy knowing how little you value her life.
You must be either young and naive, or cold inside.
I would gladly pull out each of your teeth ... slowly, one at a time, until you give me the information I would need to save my Mom.
You, Sir, are a fool.
grizzzlyjoe 7 months ago
Asking Obama to replace this guy is hilarious. As if Obama is hearing this Petraeus position for the very first time. Something changed Petraeus' mind between the time he was a military man and the time when he was presented for confirmation. Gee, I wonder who could have been involved in motivating that little epiphany? Concluding that Olbermann is more stupid than Obama is a kindness.
j1a2r34 7 months ago
does it make me a bad guy that i agree with petreus on the "jack Bauer Situation" if you only got 30 minutes, what do you have to lose, might as well start inflicting pain as a last resort, but only under those "Jack Bauer Situations", does that make me a non Progressive?, I hope not, i'm very progressive on most things.
thebestanswerever 8 months ago
@dgl1962
I hate those kind of left-wingers, too, that's why we're _Progressive_ liberals. Lol, we aren't like that, we're the *good* kind of liberals! Lol. Like, I mean the kind that wanna legalize pot, not the kind that wanna ban video games from kids.
macgeek2004 8 months ago
Torture is illegal. No if's, no buts.
Secondly if there was a nuclear device under the empire state building as he stated, it would be his own people who placed it there. Every single so called 'terrorist' attack has been with the help of the intelligent agencies where they have actually GIVEN the bombs to the so called 'terrorists'.
It's all about creating FEAR and making money. It's even in the army's own training manual on how to create false flags so as to BENEFIT. The war is on you!
haeresy 8 months ago
Even Jack Bauer was prepared to face the consequences of his actions. On a case by case basis...if one truly felt it was necessary to cross the line in order to save lives...who cares about any penalty? Do what you must...but be ready to face the music for it. It should NEVER be state sanctioned in other words.
dano50 8 months ago
I'm wondering how long it will take for the news shows to have rich man Chertoff come on the screen telling viewers his "gut feelings" are acting up again.
Ellipser 8 months ago
Petraeus is a duplicitous, much like any politician.
dabruin2 8 months ago
If the government used that example of "a man has a nuke somewhere and you have to torture him to find out where it is" scenario, they can easily justify trying to take EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR LIBERTIES.
Notice how I said "trying"...
dgl1962 8 months ago
@dgl1962 It's the typical "save the children" technique. "Your not against saving the children, are you?"
A classic psy-op technique to gain control over a population through emotional triggers.
The 'nuke' scenario is no different, it's to justify their actions with the public. "You need us, to protect you!". If the public figured out that we don't need them, that their wars are completely fabricated, their money supply would dry up and is what Dwight D. Eisenhower warned people about.
haeresy 8 months ago
@haeresy That's right, whenever I hear "it's for the safety of the children" (usually from leftwing statists like Hillary) red flags pop up and warn me that someone is trying to diminish my liberties, grow the coercive force of the government, confiscate my guns and add to my taxes.
dgl1962 8 months ago
Petraeus would have made a fine Gestapo officer.
MrYadakun 8 months ago
So basically if you're confused about what's going on, just watch the movie UNTHINKABLE lol.
ChuloBadGuy 8 months ago
General Betray us can suck my constitutional dick!
sethzky77 8 months ago
LOL! A Nuclear bomb with a timer on it! And then you need the "codes" to turn it off! LOL! Straight out of a "Die Hard" movie! If a terrorist ever got a Nuke inside the United States, believe me...they wouldn't have a timer on it!
Humpahna 8 months ago 6
@Humpahna Absolutely. It would detonate at any time they felt like it. What did these intelligence people learn from 9/11? People who are certain they are dealing with ultimate evil and that they must die to get cookies from Allah does not flinch in the face of their own deaths, and they certainly do not put a timer on a nuke.
GnosticAtheist 8 months ago
Olbermann would classify self defense in the face of certain mass destruction, as torture and so he would not defend himself from someone who by direct knowledge can permit the death of millions or deny that catastrophe. So, a total pacifist must be prepared to die, and not harm a suspect, but a pacifist cannot decide for the society, because Society has another rule, "Self Defense" means resistance to the pain , and death of the enemy, and that includes torture as self defense.
CarmineFragione 8 months ago
@CarmineFragione Torture who? Who are you going to torture? There will not be a ticking timebomb, only a bomb and some madmen yelling Allah as they pull the trigger.
If you commit torture there will be an eternity of hate; generations upon generations can use the truth; terrorists win with every torture, every violation of the constitution, for every death in their lands.
GnosticAtheist 8 months ago
@CarmineFragione Your response is quite asinine and illogical. Where do YOU draw the line? Who decides WHO has intelligence it is worthy to torture in order to get? If you are accused of foreknowledge of something...even if that assumption is false...who decides if YOU should be tortured? And if the torturer is so convinced...what is to stop them from threatening your loved ones...your children...spouse? After all...you believe the end justifies the means by your idiotic stance.
dano50 8 months ago
FOLLOWING HIS MOTHER'S DOCTOR STUPID COMMEMNT DECLARING TO HER FATHER,"IT'S A BOY".
TORTURE IS BARBARIC,
GO BACK TO THE BUSH /OSAMA BROMANCE.
IVIIIVV 8 months ago
"If you beat this prick long enough... he'll tell you who started the goddamn Chicago Fire; that doesn't necessarily make it FUCKING SO!" - Nice Guy Eddie
danielhiryu 8 months ago 3
Traitor BetrayUS.
What a honorable guy to head such a reputable organization, kind of like taking over command of the troops he'd been fighting against?
Well at least he has a "feel" for the enemy, a sixth sense, it's UNREAL!
It's the Muppet Show for people whom retards call morons i.e. those who Ma'Grisly calls "the American people"
If you feel insulted then yes, that's YOU!
Peas.
AceHoale 8 months ago
Dirty work for the country, what fine words... :(
vikramtheone 8 months ago
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lardo444 8 months ago
What the hell does Olbermann know about war, torture or anything else? If we let this guy advise us on security, we'd have Sharia law within six months.
fliegeroh 8 months ago
@fliegeroh
LMAO
Pnuemon 8 months ago
wwhat a load shit. Why MANNING in jail and BUSH not? Ain't the the main question? OBAMA is puppet and fake.
dips018 8 months ago 4
@dips018
Cause the year is 1984...
Eurasia is in devastated by a war...
At home, in INGSOC, the Sadists are in the highest ranks of The Party...
And those who seek truth will find themselves in an illegal extrajudicial imprisonment...
Orthodoxcrusader 8 months ago
war mongers and criminal
marniespeaks 8 months ago 2
You know whats funny? Keith still thinks he can reason with Obama. He doesn't realize Obama is just as dumb as Petraeus.
Garlannd 8 months ago
Torturing people isn't the answer.. how is that not obvious? how insidious can they be trying to spread an agenda by pretending like its in rare cases.. yuck..
ShaktipatSeer2 8 months ago 2
Obama LOVES torture just ask شهرام امیری
MadXMax187 8 months ago
I thought militarizes made generals out of their best strategists to win wars..........everyone but the US and some Dictators it seems.
Mahoivlich 8 months ago
The reason certain elements in the state are eager to maintain the "right" to torture is NOT because they are convinced such methods are valuable intel gathering tools.
It's because it is an effective means to ACQUIRE FALSE CONFESSIONS, which they can then present to the Congress and the public as "legit" reason to pursue whatever pre-ordained fascist schemes they already had in mind.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago 3
well i dont give much creedence to these mouthpieces usually,but i enjoyed olbermanns stance on this.
whisperinwindcried67 8 months ago
Human evolution is slow.
saintearth 8 months ago
Remember Bill Clinton started the renditions program in 1995, Democrats have never been a party of peace. They only give lip service to peace, never practicing it just as the Republicans.
MadXMax187 8 months ago
Wake up America. Petraeus is a puppet just like Obama. Just doing the agenda of the elite.
Chooch634 8 months ago
Hey Keith! . . . Your savior and hero Obama appointed the General, so by proxy your savior and hero supports torture as well.
BloodTar 8 months ago
@BloodTar You fail at trolling
waltermh111 8 months ago
@BloodTar Yeah, because KO is *never* critical of the president.
In fact, you're just repeating something he *actually said himself* in the clip.
Don't get me wrong, it sounds like KO is just as much a blowhard as ever. But he's certainly much better than the Faux heads.
jstncbllr 8 months ago
Waterboard his ass.
clonefly 8 months ago
Here's the pro-torture crowd doesn't get - when you torture somebody, they'll say ANYTHING to get it to stop. They'll lie their pants off, say anything at all, as long as it makes the torture stop. It's been proven time and time again that a skilled interrogator using mind games is able to get more valuable information than those who use torture.
Drakescythe9 8 months ago 53
@Drakescythe9
Another (perhaps even more sinister) dimension of the tortured being "willing to say anything to make it stop" is the intentional use of such techniques NOT to gather intel, but to essentially coerce people into making FALSE CONFESSIONS.
I don't think our sermons about the unreliability of torture are really "news" to the intel community itself. Their dogged defense of these practices is likely rooted in their POLITICAL utility (ie. able to tell public "we have intel for WMDs".)
OuTofJoY 8 months ago 3
@Drakescythe9 mind games require someone intelligent to be there : )
chiefy67 8 months ago
@chiefy67 That's pretty good. Military intelligence, one of the biggest oxymorons there is.
Drakescythe9 8 months ago
@Drakescythe9
Agreed...all they need is a little good cop/ bad cop roughing up.
Uaz31 8 months ago
@Drakescythe9 Smart Man.
Garribean2341 7 months ago
@Drakescythe9 And you base that on what video game?
primpal08 6 months ago
@Drakescythe9 And you base that on what video game?
Keith Olbermann - worst anything anywhere. Is this the best the left can put forward? If so, they are in deep, deep trouble.
primpal08 6 months ago
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@primpal08
Why do you say that?
jerico641 5 months ago
KO was spot on with his comment. My jaw dropped when I heard Petraeus say he thought reserving torture for the old and oft debunked "24" nuke scenario was valid. The stupidity that streams from all sides of our gov't anymore beggars belief. It's no wonder this country is in the sad condition it is when the place is run by wall to wall nutcases.
ismeme 8 months ago 2
@ismeme
This is what inevitably happens when political life is monopolized by a segment of society. This is no abbheration, but inherent to "representative" government. Any such system where decisions affecting the many will be made by the few (oligarchy) WILL end this way. Citizen democracy, and emergent self-governance are the only way to avoid these problems.
We need to spend less time with watching sports or "reality tv" and devote that energy to running our own communities.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago
@ismeme I was expelled from the toronto school board as a child for punchin Keifers face in..... his grandfather is turnin in his grave over what a sell-out drunkin loser he is. Wish I would have stomped him into retardation : )
chiefy67 8 months ago
gas station food am i right
CelticAlphabet 8 months ago
Well, at least the president knows at least WTF the CIA is doing.
fonkymaster 8 months ago
you snitch you die bitch.
CelticAlphabet 8 months ago
Olbermann doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Petreus was talking about a very specific, though unlikely case in which torture is o.k. This doesn't contradict his earlier remarks against it. I hate it sometimes when Olbermann exaggerates or bullshits to make his own personal point. THAT is what can hurt his credibility sometimes and makes him too much like a right-wing FOX moron in those cases.
ridewave444 8 months ago
@ridewave444
I disagree. This has every appearance of being a "qualification" to curry favor with certain elements within the CIA - at the very least a "nod" that they don't have to be concerned about consequences for past misdeeds.
These people don't waste their breath when on record like this.
I'm also unclear how this makes Keith "like FOX", other than perhaps its brighter points (like Judge Napolitano on FOX Business)? Like the judge, he's not an ironclad partisan.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago
torture happens regardless. there doesn't need to be a law for it.
Akahseles 8 months ago
@Akahseles
True - but giving legal immunity DOES mean that more such things will occur. I think that's the point for those realistic persons (with no illusions about the U.S government) who oppose giving a legal framework to such activities.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago
the General disgraced our uniform by condoning torture...we have lost any moral highground we could have claimed long ago when we employed sadistict bastards to carry out torture
linkin622 8 months ago
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JASON9948 8 months ago
The problem with the "ticking timebomb" scenario is that an authoritarian interrogator is always going to think there is a timebomb somewhere, even if there isn't one. They have very active imaginations.
bricitybrac 8 months ago 2
the nuke went off under the twin towers not the empire state building.
1316wmed 8 months ago
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TheEpoxyExpert 8 months ago
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TheEpoxyExpert 8 months ago
Underwear bomber!! It was the CIA that escorted him through customs!! MAN!! you people forget fast...
bladelt1234 8 months ago 33
@bladelt1234
Precisely. The whole thing stinks of a pretext to justify the new "passport state" the U.S feds are trying to create. There are real concerns as to how they'll manage such a populous people when the REAL economic crisis comes.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago
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TheEpoxyExpert 8 months ago
Your story checks out. Good job, Mox.
Adipatus 8 months ago
how does he know about nukes in the buildings? he said too much already, i'd love to see this guy as the head of the CIA yes?
=)
bucolic1 8 months ago
If someone kidnapped Keith Olbermann's kids I'm sure he would torture them to find out where they are.
dodododa 8 months ago
@dodododa
Your being sure about anything doesnt mean jack squat.
His father died of a painful and debilitating disease, yet Olbermann never tortured anybody to find a cure.
Adipatus 8 months ago
@Adipatus Civilians kids are kidnapped all the time and parents dont use torture, they let the police handle it, and we know for a fact that torture doesnt work on such people as effectively as friending them does.
You torture them, they will say whatever it takes to stop the torture, especially lie or tell you what you think is the truth, whether it is or not.
waltermh111 8 months ago
@dodododa
You're making a mistake common to people who argue horrors to liberty in the name of "what if" scenarios.
Namely, that in the REAL WORLD people do things for reasons. And there is a context within which persons are captured. That dictates what you know about what they know, and what your leverage is with such people.
You and those like you (in the name of watching too much TV) are paving a road to hell.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago
I can understand why we would never want to torcher an enemy soldier, that person is following orders from their government it's not personal. Why do we feel we should extend rights to some religious suicidal nut case? The general was talking about a highly unlikely situation a what if, if we have 30min I want the government to do everything possible to stop it, wouldn't you? Olberman wants that guy to have his rights put Olberman under the statue with him.
sintruder 8 months ago
@sintruder So we have to lower ourselves like the enemy? Beside that, it has never been proven that torture extracts anything other than what the interrogator wants to hear. Maybe you would like it if your loved ones were interrogated or even raped to extract information, because there is documented evidence that rape of women and children has been used by "Blackwater". Does that somehow make you feel more patriotic?
watertonrivers 8 months ago
Do you work for Fox? I tell you what if it is you family in peril I hope the government does everything in it's power to respect the people involved rights. I've heard of selective hearing but not selective reading. The & I hesitate to use the word people who are blowing up schools or are killing the superstious in their churches they get no sympathy from me. If the mercs at Blackwater want to hurt inocents to get information they are no better than the terrorists. Re read what I wrote, jerk off
sintruder 8 months ago
god bless you general. good luck with your new job. your a patriot
coolnamesweretaken1 8 months ago
We got the old Keith Olberman back...the one that was a counterbalance to the destructive policies of Bush. Looks like he's finally onboard with attacking the dumb crap Obama is doing too
bombnom 8 months ago
i know, Keith. i know.
catayl 8 months ago
The 'Underwear bomber' was clearly a 'False Flag' operation !
Search & read-
Flight 253 passenger: Sharp-dressed man aided terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab onto plane without passport (MLive.com exclusive)
mlive . com/news/detroit/index . ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l . html
Searching4Truth1 8 months ago
every heard? just saying moxnews guy
themooddisorders 8 months ago
This government "Does not torture" people just like Libya is a "Kinetic Action"
You'd have to be one dishonest piece of shit to not look at those statements and not at least consider burning the system that allowed that to the ground.
russkeller 8 months ago
our government is shiftier than the kremlin
brianestoll 8 months ago
@brianestoll the kremlin is much worse trust me but we are the same dirrection
coolnamesweretaken1 8 months ago
@coolnamesweretaken1
It depends how you mean. The KGB is more overtly brutal, and more to the point aims more of its "obvious" malice at fellow (Russian) citizens.
OTOH it could be said Uncle Sam is MUCH "shiftier" as it tends to manage the U.S population through a much subtler brand of propaganda, and tends to export the worst of its violence.
BOTH are manipulative and deceitful - and even counting the "Soviet years", it's highly debatable which is bloodier.
OuTofJoY 8 months ago
@coolnamesweretaken1 I know.. but our country actually gets more shit for it... i guess it's just expected from russia
brianestoll 8 months ago
every heard?
ymkamara420 8 months ago
Bush was such a liar! I think he got some kind of pleasure by doing it as well.
His behavior is an indicator of this.
bobster451 8 months ago
@bobster451 What behavior?
ShadowCrashed81 8 months ago
@ShadowCrashed81 His being free of anything approaching truth.
bobster451 8 months ago
Torture is bad m'kay...
partypianoplayer 8 months ago 2
@partypianoplayer Are you implying that it is good?
ShadowCrashed81 8 months ago
@ShadowCrashed81 No, Torture is bad m'kay...
partypianoplayer 8 months ago
@partypianoplayer The 'm'kay' sounds like sarcasm.
ShadowCrashed81 8 months ago
@ShadowCrashed81 I hope i didn't offend you....
partypianoplayer 8 months ago
@partypianoplayer I was just asking if you were serious or not.
ShadowCrashed81 8 months ago