@surfxeo As far as God intervening, I would agree. As far as God himself being needing to sacrifice himself, I would not agree. Paul tells us in Hebrews that Jesus had to become lower than the angels A perfect man, which is all that is required to address the balance. Hence the reason that the bible refers to the "RANSOM" sacrifice, like for like. Plus the fact the bible clearly teaches God sent his Son, not himself John 3:16
@steveparadise1 Hense the reason why God had to intervene was because no man was worthy to takes away sins because all have sinned and comes short of the glory of God, so before the foundation of the world the second person of the Godhead would become a man and live a perfect life without sin and be the sacrificed for our sins and take away the reproach against God. This was Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.
God had to become a man because man is dead in trespasses and sins.
@Surfxeo Some hindu believe that God's blood dripped in the river, so they go wash themselves in the river to become clean of Sin, would be sufficient.
You forgot where the Bible says that God became SIN.
God doesn't stand sin, so he became sin himself, to solve the problem of sin, do you see what a mess?
BTW, why do you call Jesus the second person of the Godhead, why it's not the Holy Spirit? Or do you follow your church blindly?
@1MoreMuslim The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh and took on himself the sins of His people. We have sin in us and on us. Christ took the sin that was on us onto himself and suffered hell in our stead to that we would not have to be damned. This way Gods Judgement and Mercy are perfect as He does not have to forfeit his character.
That verse you quoted proves that Jesus was God from eternity. Well done. 2 Cointhians 5:21
Jesus is the 2nd person because he is the Son, simple.
do they not see that this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever? how can a just god attribute to himself such a nature so confusing to so many of his creations and tie our salvation in this world and the next to understanding and BELIEVING In it?
@1MoreMuslim That is why God never created another God. That would be a created God which is not anything like what the Bible teaches. You are confusing persons with being. What the Bible reveals is that God is 3 persons and not 3 Beings of God. Man is created in the image of God and we are the representatives of God who share love, communion and fellowship with one another. That means the Allah does not represent the true God as that god would have a selfish love, a vain love to love himself.
@1MoreMuslim I'm not impressed with your lake of context within the text and from your relies shows that you have not read the Bible. Those 2 english translations come come from the root Greek. The Greek does make a difference with person and being. I can tell you are not a Greek scholar.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Three Persons of the Godhead in this verse alone acting together as one.
Person and being are well defined words in the english language and we all know what they mean.
if you consider this stupid or silly action, I will ask you, who you are to consider what a stupid or silly act for The God?
there is something wrong here, because if God can incarnate in one of his creatures, and he can do anything, so he can incarnate in anything he wants, and you do not have the write to say what is right or wrong about the kind of the creature.
or the incarnation in this term, is such a silly or wrong action!!!
@WDTripps God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
God is All-Mighty, All-Powerful. Created concepts do not apply to Him and he is not BOUND by them. He doesnt NEED to resort to DIE and SUFFER (whats the point) when He is All-Powerful and can forgive in an instant. It is utterly ludricous. It implies that God sees all this sinning, then panics and then says "Oh no i should send my son (oh wait myself...or is it my son..whatever), and die to save them." Allah is beyond what they say.
god has the power to do anything that does not mean he would go against his nature can god be unjust, no can he go take a shit, no because its not in his nature to do or be so the same goes for being human
If you think God doesn't have the power to, by His own choice, take human flesh for a limited amount of time, then you don't really believe God is almighty.
God has the power to limit His power, but of course that doesn't mean He is bound to His limitation, because in fact He never limited His power, for He had the power at any time to stop His limitation of His power. So, He did all this by His own free will, and He had such a perfect plan with it, to suffer what YOU should have endured.
@1MoreMuslim For example: I have a car that goes with inifinite km/h. I'm in a race, and I deliberately choose to lose that race simply because I don't want to win it, and I'm limiting my power by not pushing the pedal to the metal. But I can push that pedal at any time and the power's still there. So, I've limited my power but I haven't lost it, that's what I meant. God willingly limited His power for a limited amount of time, but He always Had the power to stop that limitation at any time.
When Jesus was asked about the Hour, he said I don't know. Not that he knows but he has chosen not to tell, but he did not know. Your theology seems to be quite unorthodox and heretical. The incarnation teaches that God, by becoming Man, never ceased to God. He had two Natures, divine and Human at the same time.
@1MoreMuslim I've already explained that. He willingly limited His knowledge, His power, He became human. Yet in some occasions He decided to use His power (Lazarus ressurection, the breads, walking on water, healing and so on...) But by Him willingly limiting His power we understand just that: that He limited His power. Further on, what you claim are only presumptions, limiting doesn't mean losing that power (@ the car example).
@1MoreMuslim If you believe in a Holy and Righteous God (Allah), like I do(Jesus), then why doesn't this God stop all the evil in this world? It's pretty clear that if He is Righteous He WANTS to stop evil, yet He doesn't. Does that mean that He doesn't have the POWER to do it? No, it means that He willingly LIMITED His power of doing WHATEVER He wants (to stop Evil in this case), because He has a much better plan for this. So, after all, you DO believe in God's limitation of His power.
Its not that God doesn't want to stop all evil in this world. But they have their time, in the Judgement Day, just like all of us, will be judged by our actions. Those who do good deeds and believe in God will be admitted to paradise and the evil people who deny God will be sent to hell.
If God stop all the evil in this world, that means God will hasten their punishment, but we have our time, a lifetime chance to ask for forgiveness, as God is most forgiving.
@fakirJ There is no car that has infinite km/h. :) Could it be possible for something to have infinite and limited power at the same time? But its okay, I understand what you mean. :)
For us, God is almighty and nothing can change that.
james white dont u feel shame to give example like how to mix colors to explain your god ? your bible said god is not a man very clear stop guide your people to hell
It really saddens me that people with obvious intelligence still allow their brains to be kidnapped by this non-sense. It really is the biggest wonder of the world and ultimately shows that actually as a species we are actually pretty stupid!
musims aren't logical! do you realise that you just disproved your own faith? to your credit you actually put up james explanation of the incarnation in the video. first people label everything without exception, if this is your argument then you can't believe in allah or his prophet either because muslims ascribe labels to them too! secondly tell me what allah is like without referring to his attributes and you will have to define him by what he is not too! congratulations you're now an atheist
" because muslims ascribe labels to them too! " An example please!
"and you will have to define him by what he is not too! "
True , we define God by what he is not, The problem that you define new WORDS with negative statements.
You cannot define the Hypostatic Union in a positive way, because it's invented to NEGATE heresies. It's a Label to refute those who says that Jesus has divinity and humanity mixed in ONE Nature ( Monophysitism)...cont
@1MoreMuslim an example allah/mohammad is "_____" just fill in the blank. next. theology is done by people to explain or understand a concept or idea more fully. to flesh out what is a deeper theological issue is to try to gain a better understanding on different issues so as to better be able to know ourselves and to better know god. and the concepts behind the hyperstatic union go back to Tertullian (i believe, off the top of my head), now he was not dealing with the subject at hand.
You don't seem to understand definition. If I say a banana is yellow and made by man, you would agree. If I said that banana was manufactured and not a product of nature, you would still agree- but if I said this banana is a product of nature, and also manufactured by man, you would be confused. How in the world does that make any sense? How could man who's imperfect create this banana but also God who's perfect make it a product of nature simultaneously? (cont)
because these concepts are not novel or new to describe Jesus as the Christ, your argument has doesn't hold water. yes they were used to negate a heresy.... and? next. you clearly do not understand hyperstatic union, the 2 separate natures of christ and the theological view on atonement because if you did you would not have said that the hypostatic union negates that Jesus had 2 separate natures. you are wrong! next. just b/c a def. is in the negative doesn't mean that it isn't valid.
It's aslo a label to NEGATE that Jesus had 2 SEPARATE natures ( Only the Human nature suffered). Since both positions don't fit the theological view on Atonement , The Christian put forward a Label, and say he is NOT this and he is NOT that. And we are left with no definition of it. It's like saying the Door is not open and is not closed, so what ? I think there is no door. likewise there is no Hypostatic union.
@1MoreMuslim my former statement still stands... congratulations you're now and atheist! if these are the arguments that you are going to use to "disprove" christianity. better luck next time. if you would like to deal directly with the arguments that put forward in your video, as I am sure you are. you first need to watch this...
watch?v=-zCmde-GOKI
yes it is a bit long but the video goes into significant detail that you have missed or don't think are important. THESE DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT.
I have made this video based on that video of James White. I know every argument raised by Dr White, and I know where they fail. Can you define the hypostatic union with affirmative terms rather than negative terms. Christians doctrines are defined by its heresies, it is NOT this and NOT that... we are still waiting for an alternative. If I tell you , my door is not closed and not open, what would you say about my door? It doesn't exist!
Amazing lies. Jesus(pbuh) is not a God and never claim to be God. I honestly believe the Romans created these lies and incorporated their own pagan system exp Zeus and his son Hercules. The Europeans used Jesus(pbuh) as their own God to control people of other races. They picture Jesus(pbuh) as a white man to gain supremacy. The truth stand clear from falsehood. God is not begotten. God is eternal and unseen. Jesus(pbuh) is a man created by God.
I'm glad you posted this. It shows how little Muslims understand of the triune nature of God. And I love your argument of "logic" which essentially boils down to this. "I can not understand it. It is beyond the grasp of my comprehension. Therefore it is wrong." So, sir, simply because you dont' get the concept that makes it wrong? Your logic is flawed.
@0bzeek I am glad you made this post. It shows you understand nothing! Where does this video speak of Trinity? Start by differentiating between Trinity and The incarnation, then we will discuss serious issues.
@1MoreMuslim You truly fail to see how this is directly related to the Trinity? Your understanding of the God is surely small. You can not discuss the Incarnation without understanding the Trinity, which is exactly what James White shows Muslims do not understand.
@0bzeek There is no relationship between the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union. The Incarnation is that the Second person of the Trinity became Jesus. Not the Father , not the Holy Spirit. What you fail to do ( and Dr white) , is to show me precisely, where is my Misunderstanding. Christians speak of the Trinity and the Incarnation as if they are speaking about Quantum Mechanics. SHOW me where is my mistake! Go ahead, I am all ears.
@1MoreMuslim again, what you fail to see is that the second person of the of the Trinity was ALWAYS Jesus. He did not "become" Jesus. He existed always as "one like the Son of Man" seen by Gods prophets time and again. God did not suddenly create Jesus but Jesus always was. As to where your mistake is, it is that you entirely failed to produce any evidence or argumentation to show that Dr. White had at all any flaw to his argument. All you presented was "I dont understand, therefore it's wrong."
@0bzeek Jesus was the incarnation of the Second person of the trinity. Before the incarnation, there was no Man-God. I am still waiting to tell me what did I misunderstand? This video doesn't say anything is true or wrong. I am just asking question. Can you explain how God became man , but he is still God? The word BECOME means to cease to be something. What did God ceased to be ?
@1MoreMuslim How does it cease to be anything? See your problem is not that there is any illogic to the incarnation, it is simply that you don't feel it's possible, therefore you choose to not believe it. "Before the incarnation there was no man-God" that is what Muslims believe. That is not what Christians believe. He was always the GodMan If you had comprehended Dr. Whites rebutle you would know this. So again your problem is your own comprehension not the logic of Dr. white's argumentation.
@0bzeek I have no time to waste explaining your belief: The God-man is the second person taking human form, that is called the incarnation , the incarnation happened in the womb of Mary, not before. There was no incarnation before that , get over it. May be you are from another Christian sect?!! The man-God which is called the Hypostatic Union of divine and human nature, did not exist before the pregnancy of Mary. That is the silly belief of mainstream Christianity. If you dont know this..
@1MoreMuslim In Daniel we see "one like the Son of Man". He was always both God and Man. He had simply not yet come down to the Earth. See yet again you show that your understanding of Christianity is very lacking because the crux of your argument lies in "I don't understand it. I can not make sense of it" therefore because you can not logically box the God of the entire universe into your temporal mind, you declare "this is not possible". Apart from that you really have no argument.
The Incarnation is the belief in Christianity that the second person in the Christian Godhead, also known as God the Son or the Logos (Word), "became flesh" when he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.
If allah was soooooooooo powerful why send angel gabriel to speak to mohammed, why not tell him himself, just like he told abraham, moses, jesus etc. He wasnt the one to feed mohammed the quaran it was SATAN. Lokk at the evil around the world today. Islam, only religion that can not co exist, thats why the world is against muslims, always have always will
@tyrese344 I look to all Evil around the world. And I see that the west has a big share of it, i don't have time to number, you can name it: World wars, nuclear bombs, Ecological catastrophies, military basis, occupation of lands...
@tyrese344 why did God send an angel to speak to muhammad pbuh if he was so powerful and not tell him himself? Satan gave Muhammad the Quran? Firstly how does it diminish Gods power that he sent an angel to deliver the message, and secondly anybody can use the satan argument against any religious figure - if ur a christian please can u get me a copy of the gospel of jesus, afterall the 'son of god' must hav left something for us to read
Wow. After watching the entire video, I have to say this is incredibly shallow and unconvincing. By what "logic" is this so impossible? Muslims believe God appeared to Moses in a burning bush. So God can take on the form of a flaming plant, but not a human? Ok. Ultimately this comes down to human pride and a desire to be "holy" in your own right, which is impossible. Muslims believe the same things about Jesus that the Jews of His day did, and he told them they'd die in their sins.
No Muslim would say that God took a form of a burning bush. The main stream Islam, say that God was not in that Fire, that is exactly what was reported in Exodus 3, it was an ANGEL of God.
@1MoreMuslim With regards to the burning bush, my point was about what Quran says, not the Bible. In 28:28-30; 7:6-10; 20:8-13 of the Quran, Allah is the one in the fire, not an angel. So my question is how can you believe Allah appeared in a fire in those passages, even going as far as to physically control the tree to make it move, but Allah couldn't take on the form of a human?
@1MoreMuslim I took a look at that chapter. I realize it says it's an angel of God. You're missing the point that I'm talking about what the Quran says and what you believe as a Muslim. The Bible says it was an angel of the Lord, and the Quran says it was Allah. Which one do you believe? If you believe the Quran, then that means God manifested himself physically as a burning bush. My question then stands. Why can God do that, but not take on the form of a human?
@khafaga123456789 I was actually talking about passages like 28:28-30; 7:6-10; 20:8-13. At the very least, these are all instances where Allah uses a burning bush/tree as a physical representation of himself. At the very most, these are instances where Allah actually takes physical over control of the tree to make it move. That would mean he entered into the tree just as Christians say God entered into/took on the form of a man. You don't have to be so angry in your replies.
@3016678100 sorry about being angry , some one was bothering me then=)
, if u read those verses it didn't say any thing related god being like incarnation it no way even hint that allah took th FORM of tree.and about the verse i gave it shows u what happened when moses asked to see god face to face so imagine that almighty god with glory incarnated into tree??
@khafaga123456789 But even Ibn Kathir would tell you Moses was called from the tree. So the tree is on fire, moving, and Moses is called from it. What is going on if Allah isn't in it?
PS: YouTube doesn't seem to like me putting links into comments. I'll send the link to the tafsir to you.
@3016678100 read my message, it explains u tthe part "called from his right coast" that u missed it b4 the tree in last site.... i tried to write it in details
This doctrine is based on the entirety of scripture, not a label. When Muslims attack the Bible, they attack their own religion indirectly. Muhammad confirmed the Torah and Injeel as the word of God, and we know what Torah and Injeel these were because we have manuscripts predating Muhammad. Christians read the same today. In that Torah, God appeared to Abraham as THREE MEN in Genesis 18. They even eat! Why don't Muslims ever talk about this?
@1MoreMuslim God cannot be seen because He is a spiritual being. My soul cannot be seen because it's spiritual, but the body it inhabits is physical and can be seen. When one of the spiritual persons of the trinity dwells in a physical body, it's the same thing. The body can be seen because it's physical, but the spiritual part cannot be seen. Since it's the body God would then be in, you can say God appeared, in a way.
@3016678100 I can't see your soul. Your soul is not your Body, right? So Jesus as a body is not God, because a body can be seen, right? Then How can you still say that Jesus is 100% God ? We know for sure that his body is certainly not God.
And what did he sacrifice after all, the human body? So what?
@1MoreMuslim But my soul and body are both me. The word games don't even matter anyway. The point I was making is that you have to face that God took on human form when he went to Abraham in the Old Testament, the same book Muhammad said was the Word of God. This is what Christians read today. If God did it then, He could do it again. Two ways to answer your questions. 1. 100% physically human, 100% spiritually God. 2. Jesus offered up a perfectly sinless sacrifice. That's why it was valuable.
@3016678100 who said to u that we believe that u carry the genuine message of jesus , how would jesus write about his death and resurection and the sun?
why u change ur books and put up revised new versions of ur allogated bible
@khafaga123456789 I know Muslims believe the Bible is corrupt. My point was that Muhammad didn't believe that. He said the Torah and the Injeel were the words of God. We know what Torah and Injeel existed before Muhammad was even alive and therefore what books he was confirming. Christians possess these books today. If you look up different translations of the Bible, you'll see that they are all saying the same thing.
oh oh my god james white u just DONT KNOW WAT UR TALKING ABBOUT, u just make things up on and on as u go on. plz plz stop confusing urself and others.
what muslim need to understand ...? what a phrase first let christians themselves accept the concept .My dear religion is logic and yours isn't and this concept of yours is the most ridiculous and is one of the points that drive every thinking human being away from your so called religion.s
wtf r you talking about ? was jesus praying to himself or a part of himself when he was praying to God? youre brain is wasted man :-) why did jesus kept repeating o my father in heaven give me the power ... and he told you pray like this o my father in heaven. What can the man do to make you belief even jesus did not succeed to make you believe so you will not understand what miller says
Christians often talk about developing a relationship with Christ and accepting him into their lives. They assert that Jesus is much more than a man and died on the cross to free mankind from the original sin. Christians speak of Jesus with love and respect, and it is obvious he holds a special place in their lives and hearts. But what about Muslims; what do they think about Jesus and what place does Jesus Christ hold in Islam? Log on to islamreligion(dot)com/articles /1412/ for details.
@Debmey Go ahead and tell us , give me the qualifications of the Man-God. List his attributes: Is the man-God all lnowing like a God, or is he limited in knowledge like a man?
I know where you are coming from but its not gonna work muslim.
Read Phillipians 2.
When Jesus came to earth, he operated as a man and gave up his divine powers. Jesus on earth was God in identity and man in ability. If you don't even understand Christian doctrine, how can you be debating Christianity?
Muslim means to submit ones will to the Will of God. Jesus submitted his will to God in Matt.26:39. This is just one more piece of evidence that Jesus was a Muslim.
U wrote "Jesus on earth was God in identity and man in ability"
Reply: Does this mean he ceased being god while on earth and only kept the "identity" of god?
@Debmey Go ahead and tell us , give me the qualifications of the Man-God. List his attributes: Is the man-God all Knowing like a God, or is he limited in knowledge like a man?
@1MoreMuslim "do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (...)
@waterplo12 (...) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:5-11. There is the Biblical answer to your question.
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I like Gary Miller for how illogical he represents Christian thinking, so I youtube'd him. I also hate the fact that he's not atheist. It's so pathetic to think about this conjecture in the grand scheme of things. God doesn't exist. LOOK AT WHAT YOU IDIOTS ARE ARGUING ABOUT!
My friend, you truly miss the obvious here. We will set aside the argument of which God is true. The real point here, is your misapplication of 'logic'. As though what you perceive to be the limit of God in your finite and incredibly primitive mind is the benchmark of reality. It's goes beyond hubris to make such a claim. 'I cant understand it so it cant be true'. Since your 'logic' dictates God limitations, please in absolute perfect detail what God can and cannot do.This is my challenge to you
@robotwookie NO I didn't misapply Logic. We, humans, can easily detect what it's impossible to God to do: If God that we believe in is immutable, then you have to agree that God cannot be less then God. That is called the law of non-contradiction. However, Paul, says that God decided to be less than God, which is, as he rightfully points out, a Foolishness to the Jews.
@1MoreMuslim Thanks for the quick response my friend. My point being is that your 'logic' has absolutely no application when it comes to God in any sense at all. He is unbound by any law whether it be physics or non-contradiction. To presuppose that God cannot do one thing or another based on your calculative mind is of no value. Atheists use the 'law of non-contradiction' to try to disprove God all the time. But they do the same thing you are doing: Saying what God can not be or do. Cheers..
@robotwookie I think you should put yourself in a position of people who believe in a God who spoke to man. The Idea of God sending down revelations containing teachings of what we should believe and practice, would have no meaning whatsoever, a part from the law of non-contradiction. When God says: DO these things, but DON'T do these things, the only way to make the difference between the DO and the DON'T, is to use the universal law of non-contradiction. Otherwise his revelation is in vain.
@1MoreMuslim My Muslim friend, I believe you to be talking about two things here. First, I agree with you that the revelations of God should be taken very seriously and followed. That has nothing to do with how one puts Him in a box due to pre-supposed ideas formed in that little thing between our ears. I am very familiar with The Muslim objections to The Christian Faith. However, it is futile to say God cannot do this or that.Please tell me what God cannot do.That is my challenge to you.Cheers
@robotwookie Q: what does: God can do anything actually mean?? If I asked you wheather or not God can make a stone so big that even he can't lift it? What would your answer be??
@1MoreMuslim Again. You are arguing with pre-conceived ideas. Let me ask you this question and I would ask that you take a minute and just honestly think about this: Please tell me why the creator of all things cannot enter to his own creation? Cheers...
There are logical and theological problems with that. Since you are a believer more than an intellectual, i would give you a theological reasons.
If, for the argument sake, we say that God can enter in his creation. a direct implication of that, is that you give a perfect apology for paganism. Any one that worships a stone can argue that God entered into his creation and became stone. How could you prove paganism wrong? How God would justly condemn such worshipers to Hell fire.
Second, If God can enter in his creation and become a stone , an animal or a human being, that would imply that his commands to not worship Idols is useless. God would not command to stone a man who claims to be God, if he, God, would become a man a claim to be God. That is trickery. Imagine that a commander orders his soldiers to shoot anyone who wears a turban, then he himself, shows up wearing a turban in the battlefield, and he got shot dead. That would be silly.
@1MoreMuslim First, I take offense by you saying I am a believer more than an intellectual. If you want to take it there, I can all but guarantee I have a far greater education at University in the sciences i.e., physics, evo-bio, bio-mechanics etc. And your response is not an answer to my question. You are side-scurting it. Unfortunately, I will be leaving my friend for a few days so no internet. I will respond when I get back. Until then..best to you and yours...
What I mean is that the soul is exclusively the soul and the body is likewise. They cannot be what they are and not what they are at the same time.
However, it is the case that the two natures are manifested in the same being. They do not combine with each other or intermingle. They remain two separate natures.
I hate to break it to you, akhi, but if you're going to say that two natures cannot exist together in the same being then you're going to have to renounce Islam.
Why? Because in Islam humans are both 100% physical and 100% spiritual beings. In Islam too you have the co-existence of two distinct and separate natures in the one entity, that is man.
You stated that an infinite and finite nature cannot exist in the same entity; the conclusion of your own logic is that your own religion is false!
Haha Your 'ruh' is 100% spirit, is it not? It's not intermingled with your body is it? No. And similarly, your body is not intermingled with your soul. They are two distinct and separate natures.
As for human and divine; these are both mutually exclusive yes, but so are soul and body. The Trinity simply involves these two distinct natures being together, just like soul and body, in the same being, without intermingling.
Religure..The new Christians claim God can do all things so he can be a Man if he chose to? same with other religions i suppose God can also manifest Himself in other so called Idols like statues in many many religions. .. see the point? then they claim He died for our sins>?? what sin did your 1mth old baby have? man thats so sick. so the same argument holds that if he is able to do all things then He can forgive anyone as long as He chose to. end of story
salam. if Jesus(as) was God as many christians believe how can you excplain with the might he has why would he let himself to be crusified plz excplain even if he took the form of a man he should have had his might regardles of form .plz enlighten me. theres only one God with out any partners you asosiate with him
"James White saying the son is eternal with God, contradicts Deuteronomy 4:35, 39, which practically means God is one, and there is no other besides Him"
I'm not sure why the very last part was put in with Deedat. The preacher confuses a hebrew term for a greek term, and the audience................applauds? O_O ¿Qué?
Since no autograph of any book of the Bible has survived, textual criticism plays an important part in Bible study. The material on which textual critics of the Bible work includes not only manuscript copies of the books of the Bible in their original languages12 but also ancient translations into other languages and quotations of biblical passages by ancient authors [our emphases]. (New Bible Dictionary, 1978, p. 151
My question is WHY didn't Jesus explain that? WHY didn't he say I am the God-Man, I am here because of Adam fault? Worship Jesus me? and HE prayed to whom? was that his half man praying to the other half God !!
Could you please explain why Jesus used to the bathroom?? was he really God!!?? and guess what he died!!! really?? God really died?? the humans killed him?? why?? because he wanted to forgive them?? dose that make any scene to you?
"I am God" or "worship me".) John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. 2) John 5:22 Furthermore, the Father does not judge 3 anyone, but has assigned 4 all judgment to the Son, 5:23 so that all people 5 will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Did Allah ever spoke with Mohamed and said to him I am God and Worship me?
"Did Allah ever spoke with Mohamed and said to him I am God and Worship me?"
Of course yes :)
If I was you, I will honor the father more than the son, because the father assigned judgment to the son, the son WAS GIVEN authority that he didn't have before.
How do you know he did not have it before? this is how you are twisting the verse. Jesus said 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.
Just because he is given something does not make him less. Receiving and Giving does not necessarily imply one is higher than the other. Specially as we can find Jesus claims to be One with father in many aspects.
As it is said, Quran has come down to Mohamed through Gibril. There4 Mohamed could not have talked to Allah personally. the story about Mohamed went to heaven to negotiate with Alla, about prayer is lie invented by scholars. B/c Allah never mentioned clearly such things in Quran. Therefore, Allah never said I am God worship me in person. In addition, the "prophetic" call claimed by Mohamed was never from God. Why, Mohamed never even respected the laws given in Quran by "Allah"
A Muslim is suppose to prove his religion is true by providing convincing argument regarding authenticity of Islam. But Muslim fail to do this big time as far as my concern. This video clearly fails to demonstrate the truth about Islam but demonstrates the frustration of it.
Yea, you need to be consistent with you arguments. Muslims always use the "JESUS NEVER SAID I AM GOD WORSHIP ME" phrase but if we were to apply your same logic to you, you run away. Bottom line is god can do whatever he pleases, so if he wants to take on a Human Nature, who are you to decide what is logical and what is not?
If you read xpressingview's comment you would know what logic I was referring to. Does Allah say I am god, worship me? If he doesn't then you cannot use that against Jesus. And you still haven't answered my question. But just to recap, as I was saying, Who are you to decide what god can and cannot do?
to debate with muslims is idioticy,,,, there are evil,,,,, God had to become flesh to beat the flesh, and repair what Adam , had mess up
albusai 1 month ago
@albusai lol god wrestling with the flesh he created. You said Idiocy!
1MoreMuslim 1 month ago
Why not discuss with Gary Miller face to face rather than showing a recording and giving your side with no chance of gary to tell his side. so cheap
Majid1662 1 month ago 2
@surfxeo As far as God intervening, I would agree. As far as God himself being needing to sacrifice himself, I would not agree. Paul tells us in Hebrews that Jesus had to become lower than the angels A perfect man, which is all that is required to address the balance. Hence the reason that the bible refers to the "RANSOM" sacrifice, like for like. Plus the fact the bible clearly teaches God sent his Son, not himself John 3:16
steveparadise1 4 months ago
Why would God himself have to be sacrificially killed to redeem mankind?
The bible is clear when it says "through one man sin entered the world (Adam)".
Therefore, all that would be needed to address the balance would be "one man" . A perfect man. Not a God-man
steveparadise1 4 months ago
@steveparadise1 Hense the reason why God had to intervene was because no man was worthy to takes away sins because all have sinned and comes short of the glory of God, so before the foundation of the world the second person of the Godhead would become a man and live a perfect life without sin and be the sacrificed for our sins and take away the reproach against God. This was Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.
God had to become a man because man is dead in trespasses and sins.
Surfxeo 4 months ago
@Surfxeo Some hindu believe that God's blood dripped in the river, so they go wash themselves in the river to become clean of Sin, would be sufficient.
You forgot where the Bible says that God became SIN.
God doesn't stand sin, so he became sin himself, to solve the problem of sin, do you see what a mess?
BTW, why do you call Jesus the second person of the Godhead, why it's not the Holy Spirit? Or do you follow your church blindly?
1MoreMuslim 4 months ago
@1MoreMuslim The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh and took on himself the sins of His people. We have sin in us and on us. Christ took the sin that was on us onto himself and suffered hell in our stead to that we would not have to be damned. This way Gods Judgement and Mercy are perfect as He does not have to forfeit his character.
That verse you quoted proves that Jesus was God from eternity. Well done. 2 Cointhians 5:21
Jesus is the 2nd person because he is the Son, simple.
Surfxeo 4 months ago
Gods Spirit in a mans body.
same way we have a spirit in our flesh
the body is not the person
AgainstTheWicked 6 months ago
do they not see that this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever? how can a just god attribute to himself such a nature so confusing to so many of his creations and tie our salvation in this world and the next to understanding and BELIEVING In it?
1TheStrangers 6 months ago
One big thing is left out of all this. God, can do anything he pleases because he is God. It is man that puts a label on what God can and cannot do.
WDTripps 7 months ago
@WDTripps One cannot lie , we should agree on that. Nor he can generate another God equal to him.
1MoreMuslim 7 months ago
@1MoreMuslim That is why God never created another God. That would be a created God which is not anything like what the Bible teaches. You are confusing persons with being. What the Bible reveals is that God is 3 persons and not 3 Beings of God. Man is created in the image of God and we are the representatives of God who share love, communion and fellowship with one another. That means the Allah does not represent the true God as that god would have a selfish love, a vain love to love himself.
Surfxeo 4 months ago
@Surfxeo
" You are confusing persons with being."
Do you think the Bible makes the distinction between the two?
Go read Heb 1:3
"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his BEING" NIV
"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his PERSON" KJV OOOPS!
The greek doesn't make the difference between person and being, this distinction was INVENTED later.
1MoreMuslim 4 months ago
@1MoreMuslim I'm not impressed with your lake of context within the text and from your relies shows that you have not read the Bible. Those 2 english translations come come from the root Greek. The Greek does make a difference with person and being. I can tell you are not a Greek scholar.
Genesis 2:24
Marriage is first defined here as 2 people becoming joined to become 1 flesh. The Bible makes this clear throughout.
1 person cannot have a conversation with itself, 2 persons can.
Surfxeo 4 months ago
@1MoreMuslim
Matthew 3:16-17
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Three Persons of the Godhead in this verse alone acting together as one.
Person and being are well defined words in the english language and we all know what they mean.
Surfxeo 4 months ago
@WDTripps Can God create a thing he can not carry or bigger than him?
eslamesawy79 6 months ago
@eslamesawy79 yes he could & then he could carry it afterwards.
our mind cannot smoothly process paradoxes because it is beyond human comprehension.
what else would you expect though if your talking about God? XD
AgainstTheWicked 6 months ago
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eslamesawy79 6 months ago
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@WDTripps can God incarnates in a cow or dog?
if you consider this stupid or silly action, I will ask you, who you are to consider what a stupid or silly act for The God?
there is something wrong here, because if God can incarnate in one of his creatures, and he can do anything, so he can incarnate in anything he wants, and you do not have the write to say what is right or wrong about the kind of the creature.
or the incarnation in this term, is such a silly or wrong action!!!
eslamesawy79 6 months ago
@WDTripps God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Numbers 23:19
God says he is not a man or sun of man, so how anyone can say the opposite?!!!
God does not do stupid things like human beings. in this way the term "God can do anything" is not correct
eslamesawy79 6 months ago
@xthankxyouxJesusx thats pretty low to assume that God just like us mortals takes a dump.
HijabifiedModesty 7 months ago
Prophets Idrees, Noah, Hood,Saleh,Loot , Ibrahim , Ishmael and Isaac !
are Muslims be4 even Judah and Judaism Exist !
and the one God sent one religion its Islam !
not Judaism then Christianity !
pulman7 8 months ago 11
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TokyoFreeze79 6 months ago
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God is All-Mighty, All-Powerful. Created concepts do not apply to Him and he is not BOUND by them. He doesnt NEED to resort to DIE and SUFFER (whats the point) when He is All-Powerful and can forgive in an instant. It is utterly ludricous. It implies that God sees all this sinning, then panics and then says "Oh no i should send my son (oh wait myself...or is it my son..whatever), and die to save them." Allah is beyond what they say.
daneshjoo2011 8 months ago
The arguments by Gary Miller are so silly. What a waste of time it was to listen to this garbage of a video.
RbnHd123456 9 months ago
@RbnHd123456 Why further waste your time writing a post? What is so silly here?
1MoreMuslim 9 months ago 4
LOL at the end.
ETHANGELIST 9 months ago
No sir, that is Hebrew.
DaWanderer 9 months ago
Epic ending!
Oo786oO 9 months ago
how can God use the bathroom ... He's far too high too holy God is above that. One the reasons why Jesus Christ(pbuh) was NOT God.
HijabifiedModesty 10 months ago
god has the power to do anything that does not mean he would go against his nature can god be unjust, no can he go take a shit, no because its not in his nature to do or be so the same goes for being human
bagusher 11 months ago
If you think God doesn't have the power to, by His own choice, take human flesh for a limited amount of time, then you don't really believe God is almighty.
God has the power to limit His power, but of course that doesn't mean He is bound to His limitation, because in fact He never limited His power, for He had the power at any time to stop His limitation of His power. So, He did all this by His own free will, and He had such a perfect plan with it, to suffer what YOU should have endured.
fakirJ 11 months ago
@fakirJ
God limited his power but he did not.. looool
Do you believe that God by becoming human limited his power?
Do you believe that God became flesh for a limited amount of time?
1MoreMuslim 11 months ago 2
@1MoreMuslim For example: I have a car that goes with inifinite km/h. I'm in a race, and I deliberately choose to lose that race simply because I don't want to win it, and I'm limiting my power by not pushing the pedal to the metal. But I can push that pedal at any time and the power's still there. So, I've limited my power but I haven't lost it, that's what I meant. God willingly limited His power for a limited amount of time, but He always Had the power to stop that limitation at any time.
fakirJ 11 months ago
@fakirJ
When Jesus was asked about the Hour, he said I don't know. Not that he knows but he has chosen not to tell, but he did not know. Your theology seems to be quite unorthodox and heretical. The incarnation teaches that God, by becoming Man, never ceased to God. He had two Natures, divine and Human at the same time.
1MoreMuslim 11 months ago
@1MoreMuslim I've already explained that. He willingly limited His knowledge, His power, He became human. Yet in some occasions He decided to use His power (Lazarus ressurection, the breads, walking on water, healing and so on...) But by Him willingly limiting His power we understand just that: that He limited His power. Further on, what you claim are only presumptions, limiting doesn't mean losing that power (@ the car example).
fakirJ 11 months ago
@1MoreMuslim If you believe in a Holy and Righteous God (Allah), like I do(Jesus), then why doesn't this God stop all the evil in this world? It's pretty clear that if He is Righteous He WANTS to stop evil, yet He doesn't. Does that mean that He doesn't have the POWER to do it? No, it means that He willingly LIMITED His power of doing WHATEVER He wants (to stop Evil in this case), because He has a much better plan for this. So, after all, you DO believe in God's limitation of His power.
fakirJ 11 months ago
@fakirJ This is what I believe
Its not that God doesn't want to stop all evil in this world. But they have their time, in the Judgement Day, just like all of us, will be judged by our actions. Those who do good deeds and believe in God will be admitted to paradise and the evil people who deny God will be sent to hell.
If God stop all the evil in this world, that means God will hasten their punishment, but we have our time, a lifetime chance to ask for forgiveness, as God is most forgiving.
Hensy87 10 months ago
@1MoreMuslim there are certain God cannot do. e.g. he cannot throw me out of his kingdom.. can he ?? As everywhere is his dominion!!!
saqibmani1980 9 months ago
@saqibmani1980 I completely agree. God Can do everything but those things that are contradictory of what God is.
1MoreMuslim 9 months ago
@fakirJ There is no car that has infinite km/h. :) Could it be possible for something to have infinite and limited power at the same time? But its okay, I understand what you mean. :)
For us, God is almighty and nothing can change that.
Hensy87 10 months ago
@1MoreMuslim 1) Yes.
2) Yes.
fakirJ 11 months ago
better explanation of Trinity than Mr.White nonsense.
/watch?v=W5JjOymzrgU
EBRAHIMISLAM 11 months ago
james white dont u feel shame to give example like how to mix colors to explain your god ? your bible said god is not a man very clear stop guide your people to hell
iwantyou9944 11 months ago
james white ur god is a little counfusing lol
iwantyou9944 11 months ago
@iwantyou9944 is your God so simple that even a finite being like you can comprehend him?
elderaps 11 months ago
@elderaps No we can't, But God gave us the ability to comprehend a contradiction and to distinct what makes sense and what it doesn't.
1MoreMuslim 11 months ago
when u say to them 1 +1 + 1 =3 ,, they tell you but 1*1*1=1 !!!
so now what prevent us from adding infinite ones and we shall get the same result !!!
SoProudMuslim 1 year ago
every one can talk about Deedat from behind him but he can't face him ,,
rather than he shall appear like a midget ..
SoProudMuslim 1 year ago
It really saddens me that people with obvious intelligence still allow their brains to be kidnapped by this non-sense. It really is the biggest wonder of the world and ultimately shows that actually as a species we are actually pretty stupid!
yeovil50 1 year ago
musims aren't logical! do you realise that you just disproved your own faith? to your credit you actually put up james explanation of the incarnation in the video. first people label everything without exception, if this is your argument then you can't believe in allah or his prophet either because muslims ascribe labels to them too! secondly tell me what allah is like without referring to his attributes and you will have to define him by what he is not too! congratulations you're now an atheist
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian
" because muslims ascribe labels to them too! " An example please!
"and you will have to define him by what he is not too! "
True , we define God by what he is not, The problem that you define new WORDS with negative statements.
You cannot define the Hypostatic Union in a positive way, because it's invented to NEGATE heresies. It's a Label to refute those who says that Jesus has divinity and humanity mixed in ONE Nature ( Monophysitism)...cont
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim an example allah/mohammad is "_____" just fill in the blank. next. theology is done by people to explain or understand a concept or idea more fully. to flesh out what is a deeper theological issue is to try to gain a better understanding on different issues so as to better be able to know ourselves and to better know god. and the concepts behind the hyperstatic union go back to Tertullian (i believe, off the top of my head), now he was not dealing with the subject at hand.
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian
You don't seem to understand definition. If I say a banana is yellow and made by man, you would agree. If I said that banana was manufactured and not a product of nature, you would still agree- but if I said this banana is a product of nature, and also manufactured by man, you would be confused. How in the world does that make any sense? How could man who's imperfect create this banana but also God who's perfect make it a product of nature simultaneously? (cont)
xChillDude 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian
That's called a logical fallacy.
xChillDude 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian Tertullian is the first one who mentions Trinity , the Irony is that he is not Trinitarian.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
(no. 2)
because these concepts are not novel or new to describe Jesus as the Christ, your argument has doesn't hold water. yes they were used to negate a heresy.... and? next. you clearly do not understand hyperstatic union, the 2 separate natures of christ and the theological view on atonement because if you did you would not have said that the hypostatic union negates that Jesus had 2 separate natures. you are wrong! next. just b/c a def. is in the negative doesn't mean that it isn't valid.
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian
Cont...
It's aslo a label to NEGATE that Jesus had 2 SEPARATE natures ( Only the Human nature suffered). Since both positions don't fit the theological view on Atonement , The Christian put forward a Label, and say he is NOT this and he is NOT that. And we are left with no definition of it. It's like saying the Door is not open and is not closed, so what ? I think there is no door. likewise there is no Hypostatic union.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim my former statement still stands... congratulations you're now and atheist! if these are the arguments that you are going to use to "disprove" christianity. better luck next time. if you would like to deal directly with the arguments that put forward in your video, as I am sure you are. you first need to watch this...
watch?v=-zCmde-GOKI
yes it is a bit long but the video goes into significant detail that you have missed or don't think are important. THESE DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT.
RedLetterChristian 1 year ago
@RedLetterChristian
I have made this video based on that video of James White. I know every argument raised by Dr White, and I know where they fail. Can you define the hypostatic union with affirmative terms rather than negative terms. Christians doctrines are defined by its heresies, it is NOT this and NOT that... we are still waiting for an alternative. If I tell you , my door is not closed and not open, what would you say about my door? It doesn't exist!
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
Amazing lies. Jesus(pbuh) is not a God and never claim to be God. I honestly believe the Romans created these lies and incorporated their own pagan system exp Zeus and his son Hercules. The Europeans used Jesus(pbuh) as their own God to control people of other races. They picture Jesus(pbuh) as a white man to gain supremacy. The truth stand clear from falsehood. God is not begotten. God is eternal and unseen. Jesus(pbuh) is a man created by God.
blaqsoldier 1 year ago
LOL boy I tell ya the more you Christians try to explain your 3 gods the more you sound like barking dogs
ghs224 1 year ago
0bzeek
It is a bit odd to be critical of somebody who does not accept something that is ilogical.
Surely that is better than accepting something when you know you cannot make sense of it.
Use your God given intellect to find salvation.
All the false religions don't have to use logic, so why join them.
Understand in the name of your Lord.
wizard99uk 1 year ago
0bzeek
What you are saying is that we should not disregard something just because human logic cannot undersrand it.
Your Lord is not the author of confusion - Corinthians.
So why has He created human reasoning and logic in such a way that the trinity is unfathomable?
wizard99uk 1 year ago
Merry go round!
ayeman1958 1 year ago
I'm glad you posted this. It shows how little Muslims understand of the triune nature of God. And I love your argument of "logic" which essentially boils down to this. "I can not understand it. It is beyond the grasp of my comprehension. Therefore it is wrong." So, sir, simply because you dont' get the concept that makes it wrong? Your logic is flawed.
0bzeek 1 year ago
@0bzeek I am glad you made this post. It shows you understand nothing! Where does this video speak of Trinity? Start by differentiating between Trinity and The incarnation, then we will discuss serious issues.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim You truly fail to see how this is directly related to the Trinity? Your understanding of the God is surely small. You can not discuss the Incarnation without understanding the Trinity, which is exactly what James White shows Muslims do not understand.
0bzeek 1 year ago
@0bzeek There is no relationship between the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union. The Incarnation is that the Second person of the Trinity became Jesus. Not the Father , not the Holy Spirit. What you fail to do ( and Dr white) , is to show me precisely, where is my Misunderstanding. Christians speak of the Trinity and the Incarnation as if they are speaking about Quantum Mechanics. SHOW me where is my mistake! Go ahead, I am all ears.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim again, what you fail to see is that the second person of the of the Trinity was ALWAYS Jesus. He did not "become" Jesus. He existed always as "one like the Son of Man" seen by Gods prophets time and again. God did not suddenly create Jesus but Jesus always was. As to where your mistake is, it is that you entirely failed to produce any evidence or argumentation to show that Dr. White had at all any flaw to his argument. All you presented was "I dont understand, therefore it's wrong."
0bzeek 1 year ago
@0bzeek Jesus was the incarnation of the Second person of the trinity. Before the incarnation, there was no Man-God. I am still waiting to tell me what did I misunderstand? This video doesn't say anything is true or wrong. I am just asking question. Can you explain how God became man , but he is still God? The word BECOME means to cease to be something. What did God ceased to be ?
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim How does it cease to be anything? See your problem is not that there is any illogic to the incarnation, it is simply that you don't feel it's possible, therefore you choose to not believe it. "Before the incarnation there was no man-God" that is what Muslims believe. That is not what Christians believe. He was always the GodMan If you had comprehended Dr. Whites rebutle you would know this. So again your problem is your own comprehension not the logic of Dr. white's argumentation.
0bzeek 1 year ago
@0bzeek I have no time to waste explaining your belief: The God-man is the second person taking human form, that is called the incarnation , the incarnation happened in the womb of Mary, not before. There was no incarnation before that , get over it. May be you are from another Christian sect?!! The man-God which is called the Hypostatic Union of divine and human nature, did not exist before the pregnancy of Mary. That is the silly belief of mainstream Christianity. If you dont know this..
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim In Daniel we see "one like the Son of Man". He was always both God and Man. He had simply not yet come down to the Earth. See yet again you show that your understanding of Christianity is very lacking because the crux of your argument lies in "I don't understand it. I can not make sense of it" therefore because you can not logically box the God of the entire universe into your temporal mind, you declare "this is not possible". Apart from that you really have no argument.
0bzeek 1 year ago
The Incarnation is the belief in Christianity that the second person in the Christian Godhead, also known as God the Son or the Logos (Word), "became flesh" when he was miraculously conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary.
Stop wasting my time.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
If allah was soooooooooo powerful why send angel gabriel to speak to mohammed, why not tell him himself, just like he told abraham, moses, jesus etc. He wasnt the one to feed mohammed the quaran it was SATAN. Lokk at the evil around the world today. Islam, only religion that can not co exist, thats why the world is against muslims, always have always will
tyrese344 1 year ago
@tyrese344 I look to all Evil around the world. And I see that the west has a big share of it, i don't have time to number, you can name it: World wars, nuclear bombs, Ecological catastrophies, military basis, occupation of lands...
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@tyrese344 why did God send an angel to speak to muhammad pbuh if he was so powerful and not tell him himself? Satan gave Muhammad the Quran? Firstly how does it diminish Gods power that he sent an angel to deliver the message, and secondly anybody can use the satan argument against any religious figure - if ur a christian please can u get me a copy of the gospel of jesus, afterall the 'son of god' must hav left something for us to read
takewhole 1 year ago
@tyrese344
"If allah was soooooooooo powerful why send angel gabriel to speak to mohammed,"
If Yahweh is all powerfull, why he needs to be born of a woman, be circumcised, hungry , lost just to give you a Gospel?
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
not james white, All Christians.
tyrese344 1 year ago
Wow. After watching the entire video, I have to say this is incredibly shallow and unconvincing. By what "logic" is this so impossible? Muslims believe God appeared to Moses in a burning bush. So God can take on the form of a flaming plant, but not a human? Ok. Ultimately this comes down to human pride and a desire to be "holy" in your own right, which is impossible. Muslims believe the same things about Jesus that the Jews of His day did, and he told them they'd die in their sins.
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100
No Muslim would say that God took a form of a burning bush. The main stream Islam, say that God was not in that Fire, that is exactly what was reported in Exodus 3, it was an ANGEL of God.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim With regards to the burning bush, my point was about what Quran says, not the Bible. In 28:28-30; 7:6-10; 20:8-13 of the Quran, Allah is the one in the fire, not an angel. So my question is how can you believe Allah appeared in a fire in those passages, even going as far as to physically control the tree to make it move, but Allah couldn't take on the form of a human?
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 Read Exodus 3, was God in the fire or not?
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim I took a look at that chapter. I realize it says it's an angel of God. You're missing the point that I'm talking about what the Quran says and what you believe as a Muslim. The Bible says it was an angel of the Lord, and the Quran says it was Allah. Which one do you believe? If you believe the Quran, then that means God manifested himself physically as a burning bush. My question then stands. Why can God do that, but not take on the form of a human?
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 where u drunk when wrote about moses and god???? verse 143-144-145 chapter 7 and tell me where did allah say that he was a bush.
U R IMPOSSIBLE guys. u will be the one with arrogance to reply on me on that for u be just a folish and don't reply on me
khafaga123456789 1 year ago
@khafaga123456789 I was actually talking about passages like 28:28-30; 7:6-10; 20:8-13. At the very least, these are all instances where Allah uses a burning bush/tree as a physical representation of himself. At the very most, these are instances where Allah actually takes physical over control of the tree to make it move. That would mean he entered into the tree just as Christians say God entered into/took on the form of a man. You don't have to be so angry in your replies.
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 sorry about being angry , some one was bothering me then=)
, if u read those verses it didn't say any thing related god being like incarnation it no way even hint that allah took th FORM of tree.and about the verse i gave it shows u what happened when moses asked to see god face to face so imagine that almighty god with glory incarnated into tree??
khafaga123456789 1 year ago
@khafaga123456789 But even Ibn Kathir would tell you Moses was called from the tree. So the tree is on fire, moving, and Moses is called from it. What is going on if Allah isn't in it?
PS: YouTube doesn't seem to like me putting links into comments. I'll send the link to the tafsir to you.
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 read my message, it explains u tthe part "called from his right coast" that u missed it b4 the tree in last site.... i tried to write it in details
khafaga123456789 1 year ago
This doctrine is based on the entirety of scripture, not a label. When Muslims attack the Bible, they attack their own religion indirectly. Muhammad confirmed the Torah and Injeel as the word of God, and we know what Torah and Injeel these were because we have manuscripts predating Muhammad. Christians read the same today. In that Torah, God appeared to Abraham as THREE MEN in Genesis 18. They even eat! Why don't Muslims ever talk about this?
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 It's rather based on a contradiction within the scripture.
"In that Torah, God appeared to Abraham as THREE MEN in Genesis 18"
So in what sense God cannot be seen. To appear is to be seen. Appearing without being seen, is like a married bachelor.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim God cannot be seen because He is a spiritual being. My soul cannot be seen because it's spiritual, but the body it inhabits is physical and can be seen. When one of the spiritual persons of the trinity dwells in a physical body, it's the same thing. The body can be seen because it's physical, but the spiritual part cannot be seen. Since it's the body God would then be in, you can say God appeared, in a way.
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 I can't see your soul. Your soul is not your Body, right? So Jesus as a body is not God, because a body can be seen, right? Then How can you still say that Jesus is 100% God ? We know for sure that his body is certainly not God.
And what did he sacrifice after all, the human body? So what?
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim But my soul and body are both me. The word games don't even matter anyway. The point I was making is that you have to face that God took on human form when he went to Abraham in the Old Testament, the same book Muhammad said was the Word of God. This is what Christians read today. If God did it then, He could do it again. Two ways to answer your questions. 1. 100% physically human, 100% spiritually God. 2. Jesus offered up a perfectly sinless sacrifice. That's why it was valuable.
3016678100 1 year ago
@3016678100 who said to u that we believe that u carry the genuine message of jesus , how would jesus write about his death and resurection and the sun?
why u change ur books and put up revised new versions of ur allogated bible
khafaga123456789 1 year ago
@khafaga123456789 I know Muslims believe the Bible is corrupt. My point was that Muhammad didn't believe that. He said the Torah and the Injeel were the words of God. We know what Torah and Injeel existed before Muhammad was even alive and therefore what books he was confirming. Christians possess these books today. If you look up different translations of the Bible, you'll see that they are all saying the same thing.
3016678100 1 year ago
oh oh my god james white u just DONT KNOW WAT UR TALKING ABBOUT, u just make things up on and on as u go on. plz plz stop confusing urself and others.
tarek2102 1 year ago
what muslim need to understand ...? what a phrase first let christians themselves accept the concept .My dear religion is logic and yours isn't and this concept of yours is the most ridiculous and is one of the points that drive every thinking human being away from your so called religion.s
damirage2010 1 year ago
wtf r you talking about ? was jesus praying to himself or a part of himself when he was praying to God? youre brain is wasted man :-) why did jesus kept repeating o my father in heaven give me the power ... and he told you pray like this o my father in heaven. What can the man do to make you belief even jesus did not succeed to make you believe so you will not understand what miller says
enver84 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Christians often talk about developing a relationship with Christ and accepting him into their lives. They assert that Jesus is much more than a man and died on the cross to free mankind from the original sin. Christians speak of Jesus with love and respect, and it is obvious he holds a special place in their lives and hearts. But what about Muslims; what do they think about Jesus and what place does Jesus Christ hold in Islam? Log on to islamreligion(dot)com/articles /1412/ for details.
zorin85 1 year ago
Great Video 1MoreMuslim! Glad i found this James White is something else..
keep up the great work :)
0bserveTruth 1 year ago
Thanks Gary...you have won 1 more convert!
ayumur 1 year ago 2
so Hypostatic union huh,....new terms,.... or new Creedo,....?????
I mean How many more terms are you going to make to fit the unlogical concept into human brain???
raiguru 1 year ago
Looks like Gary Miller does not understand Christian doctrine at all.
Muslims are very silly to listen to him.
Debmey 1 year ago
@Debmey Go ahead and tell us , give me the qualifications of the Man-God. List his attributes: Is the man-God all lnowing like a God, or is he limited in knowledge like a man?
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim
I know where you are coming from but its not gonna work muslim.
Read Phillipians 2.
When Jesus came to earth, he operated as a man and gave up his divine powers. Jesus on earth was God in identity and man in ability. If you don't even understand Christian doctrine, how can you be debating Christianity?
So is Allah almighty muslim?
Debmey 1 year ago
@Debmey
"so is Allah almight muslim?"
Muslim means to submit ones will to the Will of God. Jesus submitted his will to God in Matt.26:39. This is just one more piece of evidence that Jesus was a Muslim.
U wrote "Jesus on earth was God in identity and man in ability"
Reply: Does this mean he ceased being god while on earth and only kept the "identity" of god?
hchsbp1 1 year ago
@Debmey Go ahead and tell us , give me the qualifications of the Man-God. List his attributes: Is the man-God all Knowing like a God, or is he limited in knowledge like a man?
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim "do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (...)
waterplo12 1 year ago
@waterplo12 (...) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:5-11. There is the Biblical answer to your question.
waterplo12 1 year ago
@waterplo12 God Exalted Jesus, God exalted God. Can God be exalted.
Which is the greatest name? Jesus or Yahweh?
"EVERY KNEE WILL BOW" that won't happen. All people will bow to the Father, the one who exalted Jesus.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@Debmey why u guys when its come to the truth nd reality u turn cussing nd insultin,arguin but we need to keep respectin the rule of nt hurt others
7omabm 1 year ago
DONT LISTEN THIS JAMES SAYS,,
MAN SO SIMPLE , GOD CANT BE A MAN OR GOD CANT HAVE A MOTHER.
ISLAM IS TELLING THE TRUTH.
faithandproof 1 year ago
James White sound clever, but his eyes are kinda stupid or I would say, dogmatic
gakusha76 1 year ago
'When you dont know the answer, put a label on it-Gary Miller' LOL
Thats why i am more confused listening to the Christians arguments and reasonings...not even a layman could comprehend...
I'm sure most of the answers given to the bible thumpers (Sorosh,Swaggart etc) by Deedat or the likes are mush easier to understand...
Hmm... yeah we respect to what the Christians believed but it is sad that they seem to be blinded over the simple facts laid before their eyes...
May Allah guide us all amin..
wearebrothers 1 year ago
IslamIsTheTruth99 1 year ago
wow, White is really reaching there
cattlexing 1 year ago
Hey James? You're Sick!!
eflip1 1 year ago
I like Gary Miller for how illogical he represents Christian thinking, so I youtube'd him. I also hate the fact that he's not atheist. It's so pathetic to think about this conjecture in the grand scheme of things. God doesn't exist. LOOK AT WHAT YOU IDIOTS ARE ARGUING ABOUT!
murtazax 1 year ago
@murtazax . you say god doesn't exist??? well when u die you will know for sure . but it will be 2 late !!!
carpfisherman25 1 year ago
My friend, you truly miss the obvious here. We will set aside the argument of which God is true. The real point here, is your misapplication of 'logic'. As though what you perceive to be the limit of God in your finite and incredibly primitive mind is the benchmark of reality. It's goes beyond hubris to make such a claim. 'I cant understand it so it cant be true'. Since your 'logic' dictates God limitations, please in absolute perfect detail what God can and cannot do.This is my challenge to you
robotwookie 1 year ago
@robotwookie NO I didn't misapply Logic. We, humans, can easily detect what it's impossible to God to do: If God that we believe in is immutable, then you have to agree that God cannot be less then God. That is called the law of non-contradiction. However, Paul, says that God decided to be less than God, which is, as he rightfully points out, a Foolishness to the Jews.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim Thanks for the quick response my friend. My point being is that your 'logic' has absolutely no application when it comes to God in any sense at all. He is unbound by any law whether it be physics or non-contradiction. To presuppose that God cannot do one thing or another based on your calculative mind is of no value. Atheists use the 'law of non-contradiction' to try to disprove God all the time. But they do the same thing you are doing: Saying what God can not be or do. Cheers..
robotwookie 1 year ago
@robotwookie I think you should put yourself in a position of people who believe in a God who spoke to man. The Idea of God sending down revelations containing teachings of what we should believe and practice, would have no meaning whatsoever, a part from the law of non-contradiction. When God says: DO these things, but DON'T do these things, the only way to make the difference between the DO and the DON'T, is to use the universal law of non-contradiction. Otherwise his revelation is in vain.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim My Muslim friend, I believe you to be talking about two things here. First, I agree with you that the revelations of God should be taken very seriously and followed. That has nothing to do with how one puts Him in a box due to pre-supposed ideas formed in that little thing between our ears. I am very familiar with The Muslim objections to The Christian Faith. However, it is futile to say God cannot do this or that.Please tell me what God cannot do.That is my challenge to you.Cheers
robotwookie 1 year ago
@robotwookie Q: what does: God can do anything actually mean?? If I asked you wheather or not God can make a stone so big that even he can't lift it? What would your answer be??
seamr05 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim As a side note to be fair, there are a few things I believe God cannot do. I will expand if you wish...
robotwookie 1 year ago
@robotwookie One fundamental thing God cannot do , is to be less than God.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim Again. You are arguing with pre-conceived ideas. Let me ask you this question and I would ask that you take a minute and just honestly think about this: Please tell me why the creator of all things cannot enter to his own creation? Cheers...
robotwookie 1 year ago
@robotwookie
There are logical and theological problems with that. Since you are a believer more than an intellectual, i would give you a theological reasons.
If, for the argument sake, we say that God can enter in his creation. a direct implication of that, is that you give a perfect apology for paganism. Any one that worships a stone can argue that God entered into his creation and became stone. How could you prove paganism wrong? How God would justly condemn such worshipers to Hell fire.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim
Second, If God can enter in his creation and become a stone , an animal or a human being, that would imply that his commands to not worship Idols is useless. God would not command to stone a man who claims to be God, if he, God, would become a man a claim to be God. That is trickery. Imagine that a commander orders his soldiers to shoot anyone who wears a turban, then he himself, shows up wearing a turban in the battlefield, and he got shot dead. That would be silly.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim First, I take offense by you saying I am a believer more than an intellectual. If you want to take it there, I can all but guarantee I have a far greater education at University in the sciences i.e., physics, evo-bio, bio-mechanics etc. And your response is not an answer to my question. You are side-scurting it. Unfortunately, I will be leaving my friend for a few days so no internet. I will respond when I get back. Until then..best to you and yours...
robotwookie 1 year ago
So confusion pagans!
shamsham1983 1 year ago
What I mean is that the soul is exclusively the soul and the body is likewise. They cannot be what they are and not what they are at the same time.
However, it is the case that the two natures are manifested in the same being. They do not combine with each other or intermingle. They remain two separate natures.
ConsideringPhlebas 1 year ago
I hate to break it to you, akhi, but if you're going to say that two natures cannot exist together in the same being then you're going to have to renounce Islam.
Why? Because in Islam humans are both 100% physical and 100% spiritual beings. In Islam too you have the co-existence of two distinct and separate natures in the one entity, that is man.
You stated that an infinite and finite nature cannot exist in the same entity; the conclusion of your own logic is that your own religion is false!
ConsideringPhlebas 1 year ago
@ConsideringPhlebas
"Because in Islam humans are both 100% physical and 100% spiritual beings"
Sorry , who is the Muslim who says that ? Human being is PARTLY physical Partly Spiritual, I am not 100% spiritual.
Moreover, Spiritual nature and Physical nature are not contradictory and exclusive to each other. This is a desperate argument.
1MoreMuslim 1 year ago
@1MoreMuslim
Haha Your 'ruh' is 100% spirit, is it not? It's not intermingled with your body is it? No. And similarly, your body is not intermingled with your soul. They are two distinct and separate natures.
As for human and divine; these are both mutually exclusive yes, but so are soul and body. The Trinity simply involves these two distinct natures being together, just like soul and body, in the same being, without intermingling.
ConsideringPhlebas 1 year ago
Religure..The new Christians claim God can do all things so he can be a Man if he chose to? same with other religions i suppose God can also manifest Himself in other so called Idols like statues in many many religions. .. see the point? then they claim He died for our sins>?? what sin did your 1mth old baby have? man thats so sick. so the same argument holds that if he is able to do all things then He can forgive anyone as long as He chose to. end of story
salemslot777 1 year ago
salam. if Jesus(as) was God as many christians believe how can you excplain with the might he has why would he let himself to be crusified plz excplain even if he took the form of a man he should have had his might regardles of form .plz enlighten me. theres only one God with out any partners you asosiate with him
SalijeImeri 1 year ago
Christianity, just an innovative form of polytheism.
karotistik 1 year ago
it IS polytheism. Not to mention, it is idolatry. Look at all the Jesus statues in the churches. this is idolatry.
327372 1 year ago
"James White saying the son is eternal with God, contradicts Deuteronomy 4:35, 39, which practically means God is one, and there is no other besides Him"
karotistik 1 year ago
EXACTLY!
327372 1 year ago
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karotistik 1 year ago
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karotistik 1 year ago
A Christian now turns Jesus (Alaihisalam) into a demigod. Ha, what next...
karotistik 1 year ago
OMG Brother deedat got him in the end. wow fell bad for that guy.
muslimbrotha11 1 year ago
I'm not sure why the very last part was put in with Deedat. The preacher confuses a hebrew term for a greek term, and the audience................applauds? O_O ¿Qué?
mrnewswoman 1 year ago
James white is dumb.
Seeing they do not see,hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
TYPICAL CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOUR.
sabi79797 1 year ago
Limited: London, 1959, p. 30)
Since no autograph of any book of the Bible has survived, textual criticism plays an important part in Bible study. The material on which textual critics of the Bible work includes not only manuscript copies of the books of the Bible in their original languages12 but also ancient translations into other languages and quotations of biblical passages by ancient authors [our emphases]. (New Bible Dictionary, 1978, p. 151
frank6252 2 years ago
yes in quran Allah says he is God and worship him alone SUARA TAHA VERSES 3-10 --
BUT JESUS NEVER SAID HE IS GOD OR WORSHIP ME ,, HE USED TO WORSHIP GOD IN BIBLE
Alkhattary 2 years ago
I like the concept of God-Man.
My question is WHY didn't Jesus explain that? WHY didn't he say I am the God-Man, I am here because of Adam fault? Worship Jesus me? and HE prayed to whom? was that his half man praying to the other half God !!
EBRAHIMISLAM 2 years ago
Could you please explain why Jesus used to the bathroom?? was he really God!!?? and guess what he died!!! really?? God really died?? the humans killed him?? why?? because he wanted to forgive them?? dose that make any scene to you?
mustapha180 2 years ago
actually mustapha, lol, I could see man killing G-d for wanting to forgive them.
ElderOfTzion 2 years ago
Jesus claimed to be God - John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14); John 10:30-33 ||
Jesus is called God - John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8
Jesus is the image of the invisible God - Heb. 1:3, John 1:18 3
Jesus abides forever - Heb. 7:24
Jesus created all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17
Jesus is before all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:17;
Jesus is eternal - John 1:1,14; 8:58; Micah 5:1-2
xpressingview 2 years ago
"I am God" or "worship me".) John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. 2) John 5:22 Furthermore, the Father does not judge 3 anyone, but has assigned 4 all judgment to the Son, 5:23 so that all people 5 will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Did Allah ever spoke with Mohamed and said to him I am God and Worship me?
xpressingview 2 years ago
"Did Allah ever spoke with Mohamed and said to him I am God and Worship me?"
Of course yes :)
If I was you, I will honor the father more than the son, because the father assigned judgment to the son, the son WAS GIVEN authority that he didn't have before.
Nonsense ! God was given things !!! :))
1MoreMuslim 2 years ago
How do you know he did not have it before? this is how you are twisting the verse. Jesus said 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.
xpressingview 2 years ago
Twisting the verse. The son Was given things. If he has it, why he was given it?
1MoreMuslim 2 years ago
Just because he is given something does not make him less. Receiving and Giving does not necessarily imply one is higher than the other. Specially as we can find Jesus claims to be One with father in many aspects.
xpressingview 2 years ago
Did Allah ever spoke with Mohamed and said to him I am God and worship me? Can you please tell me where? when? who was there? LOL
xpressingview 2 years ago
You want quotes or witnesses. you play confusion here.
1MoreMuslim 2 years ago
As it is said, Quran has come down to Mohamed through Gibril. There4 Mohamed could not have talked to Allah personally. the story about Mohamed went to heaven to negotiate with Alla, about prayer is lie invented by scholars. B/c Allah never mentioned clearly such things in Quran. Therefore, Allah never said I am God worship me in person. In addition, the "prophetic" call claimed by Mohamed was never from God. Why, Mohamed never even respected the laws given in Quran by "Allah"
xpressingview 2 years ago
A Muslim is suppose to prove his religion is true by providing convincing argument regarding authenticity of Islam. But Muslim fail to do this big time as far as my concern. This video clearly fails to demonstrate the truth about Islam but demonstrates the frustration of it.
xpressingview 2 years ago
Only those who cannot hear cannot accept the Truth when it is presented.
Enjoy this life. Surah 14:30
Surah72 2 years ago
Yea, you need to be consistent with you arguments. Muslims always use the "JESUS NEVER SAID I AM GOD WORSHIP ME" phrase but if we were to apply your same logic to you, you run away. Bottom line is god can do whatever he pleases, so if he wants to take on a Human Nature, who are you to decide what is logical and what is not?
Religure 2 years ago
"but if we were to apply your same logic to you, you run away"
Can you give me an example, or you are just repeating what Dr White is saying blindly.
If we use the same standard, we would reject ALL the Bible.
1MoreMuslim 2 years ago
If you read xpressingview's comment you would know what logic I was referring to. Does Allah say I am god, worship me? If he doesn't then you cannot use that against Jesus. And you still haven't answered my question. But just to recap, as I was saying, Who are you to decide what god can and cannot do?
Religure 2 years ago