schumacher did this and was labelled a cheat these boys did it more than once but are regarded as heros. schumacher did it senna did it prost did it they will all do it if it means winning or losing the championship,
man i would have killed to be born in this era of f1 now imma 19 and f1 wtf has happened to it been watching since i was 4 yrs old senna prost by far the two greatest
clearly that was an ultimate attempt for the championship but nobody would attempt a smart considered move like that in an slow corner...i would give the advantage at prost
Well, Senna took the inside and Prost had to see in the mirror that Senna was going to pass him. I think Prost saw Senna and decided to finish the champpionship there. He knew that Senna was faster than him...
@dartharmani EXPLAIN how Ayrton was faster than Prost that day in Japan, when the guy that even lead ALL the race (at some stages by almost 10sec....) was Prost, not Senna. Nonesense. And I am a Senna FAN, but it was Prost's race and Title, TOTALLY DESERVED 3rd Title for Alain Prost....
Even 21 year later, I never can see these images without turn the face. This smell very bad ! I remember Senna back to race make a pit and winning in a brilliant way !!!
I forgave Prost when Senna took a reaproximation from him in the end of 1993. But please let Senna's memory in peace !
Have to say I agree with what James Hunt said. Prost was always going to turn into the corner, as was his right and Senna being as experienced as he was should have realised that (since he would have himself) and not gone for a gap that really wasn't there. He should have left it and tried to get Prost at the end of the pit straight.
Either way I think it was just a racing incident but Senna's DQ was justified. He got a push start and he bypassed the chicane, both illegally.
Prost pressed his breaks about 40 feet earlier than Senna, allowing the overtake, and when he finally decided to turn right on the chicane, Senna already had the inside. The slow motion makes it clear.
If they had ruled better it would have avoided the shit that happened the following year.
But hey, I cant say I blame either driver for any of it. It was such a tense time in F1... heck its the most intense competition I have ever seen in any sport.
Awesome drive by Senna after the crash. RIP champ, you were the greatest every in my book.
Senna pulled off a great overtaking move which Prost didn't expect. At the last moment Prost realised he was about to be beaten and closed the door. And because Prost is French, and Balestre is French, there was nothing Ayrton could do. So no wonder Ayrton did what he did a year later.
Great french mate ! I love french people !! And brave ones that figth against the nazis ! I proud from you. Great France !
It is nice to see some Prost's interviews when he says about Senna. But ... ,I don't like the way that Prost says something about Senna ... By now, he still manipulate somethings .. It is a pity that in 89 he prefered make politics than be a driver race.
everything James Hunt said about this incident is right. Senna put himself in an impossible situation in trying to overtake Prost at the chicane before the pits. Prost knew Senna was going to go for it, and he did, and they tangled.
@hmdwgf prost went in to senna..not the other way around. Senna went for a gap and DID not run in to prost. Then "what more could he do" he could not let him pass by driving in to sennas car and secure the title, and thats what he did. Senna the best ever
@donjuandemajk that is an ignorant and one-sided argument from a Senna fanboy himself. Like Prost, i certainly do agree Senna was one of the best Formula One drivers of all time. but that is not true. it was simply a matter of refusing to back down on both driver's part and Senna even admitted he intentionally ran into Prost at Suzuka in 1990.
@hmdwgf yes no one backed down in that situation. Thats true. But i just got a little angry at the commentator, supporting prost 100% claiming it was all sennas fault.. It takes two to start a conflict is a swedish saying :) and if you could get any proof for "senna admitted to run into prost at suzuka 1990" i would appreciate if you could send me a video or something.
and why nobody say something for that, i hear at every moment that is Schumi a cheater but this video prove that is also a Prost cheater why nobody say tahat for Prost, i we are honest Senna should be world champion in 1989 because Prost crash deliberate directly into Senna's car
There's an onboard from Prost's car, he turns into Senna not the corner. If he turned into the same corner on his own, he would have beached the car on the curb.
Fact of the matter is this, Senna and Prost were simply that much better than everyone else. There names where the top of the sport from 81-94.
Senna was faster, Prost was smarter. (Mexico 90 is the best example)
Rozinete1, being a Senna fan myself, I tell you this: Prost won with no brakes (in that non-popular Monaco 84 Prost win, in which He even led the race by 30sec. to the guy behind by lap 20..... I don't remember if He won with missing years, but I remember He raced in Belgium 86, after a colission with Berger and 1 lap behind, going from 28th up to 6th, setting a Fastest Lap 2 sec faster than anybody else with a adjusting steering wheel 90 degrees and without using the boost not even once.....
On the other hand, Prost didn't win with a Toleman, but Senna didn't win with a Toleman as well!!!!.
If we talk about brakes, I still remember Alain testing a Ligier-Renault in 1992, barefoot (with no shoes....), setting the fastest lap in the testings (1sec. faster than Ligier driver Panis, for example), and it's amazing the way He did it: Prost was 1sec. faster than official drivers, without touching the brakes not even only once: engineers looked telemetry and were speechless!!!
Ayrton raced a superb race in Europe 93, He was magnificent that day but..... Do you remember Kyalami 82? Prost had a puncture in 1st lap, so went to pits and rejoined in last place 1 lap behind..... But still, by sheer brilliance, charged up to a dominant lead to win the race.... Ayrton never did that. You can love him or hate him (I love Prost), but He was a GIANT of a driver. As P. Tambay said: I saw only 3 with kind of geniuses that cannot be explained: Senna, Prost, and Gilles.....
Senna knew it was a lost cause, he never talked to any of the drivers in the paddock, he never helped his team mates, all he did was bully others to win, winning was his only mode of driving, in this case he got what he was looking for. Alain Prost is the best driver of all time!
you & Hunt both talk shit., looking at 0.20 - 0.24 you can see Prost turns into Senna, not the bend, his Angle of turn would've taken him off track, dirty cheating Frenchman got his just deserts in 90. Senna was easily the best driver of the 2, Prost knew it, that's why he only came out of retirement when Senna was dead, what a loser.
What are the commentators talking about! Prost clearly turns in far too soon to make the corner. Prost turned into Senna! There is no disputing this overhead camera angle unlike long lens oblique angles from the ground which can distort perspective and give a false impression! James Hunt must have been looking at a very different camera angle to this one.
if u see the angle of prosts car at 0:20 he is not turning into the corner as he claims as at that angle he is turning way too early for the apex of the corner. he is clearly simply taking senna off and if u see the inside of prost u can see him repeatedly turning into senna ,even after his car touches and bounces away, he immediately turns back into senna!!!!!!! prost u are a cheat!!
@Dannzt In Prost's position I would have done the same! Take Senna out, I win the world championship! A legitimate tactic at the time. I was just pointing out the nonsense Hunt was talking. Prost was not turning in for a corner, he was turning in to take out Senna. Simple:-))
Senna returned the favour the following year on the same track:-)) Why can't F1 be like that today:-))
@ianrkavi agree, these guys were gods gift to the steering wheel, today its all about safety and punishments and everytime someone does something to overtake or defend their position (like hamiltons right-left driving in malaysia or alonso overtaking massa in the pit-lane) people start to whine about dangerous driving and so on , formula 1 have always been a dangerous sport and the drivers know what their getting in to, people should learn to deal with that=)
@Dannzt No doubt about that! There are far too many 'PC' rules and regs in the sport these days. I got back into F1 in 2007 because of the Hamilton hype, but I have yet to see an exciting race! Hamilton's weaving was fine with me, so was Alonso's pit lane overtaking, the sport needs more of these antics. I just hope Schuey gets up to his old tricks! Mind you, the way it's going for him I think he's going to have to:-))
@Dannzt By the way, one of the best F1 battles ever took place at Dijon in 1979 between Renee Arnoux and Giles Vilneuve, with both drivers overtaking each other many times and this was a battle for second place! No one remembers who actually won the race, I think it was Arnoux's teammate in the other 1.5 Turbo Renault. I must check:-)
@ianrkav dijon 1979 where true poetry, ive seen it many times, i thin it whas jabouille (i have NO clue how to spell that) who won that race, f1 needs more of this type of drivers
hmmm i wonder why the pass on nannini is not there. maybe because it is an exact replica of the pass on prost! this seems very biased. lol at how hunt goes from one thing to the other and finaly ends it with "it was a slow corner of course prost would hit him" thats terribly weak. this is not how a racing fan likes to see a championship end. by the way the info is wrong murray walker is sided on ayrtons side. he sees fault in what prost did!
no i dont think so it was an exact replica. ayrton made sure of it he could of passed that car anywhere on the track. are you a shumacher fan? honestly. prost pulled out the political cards in this race plain and simple. didnt get busted for the jump start which was the only reason prost was ahead in the first place. and theres no ifs ands or buts about that ive watched it on dvd many times in slow speed. he jumps it hunt called it out. it wasnt by much but thats all you need isnt it?
another thing i find very strange is that f1 is set up to avoid jump starts with the random go times. anywhere from 1 - 5 seconds or something like that. my point is the only way a driver could jump the start is if he KNEW when the light would go out. i can see balestre giving such info to prost. and yea we do have this to disscuss but you get ppl that think prost dominated the race. jumping the start holding a 5 second gap AND making contact is not domination. right?
It is always easier (faster) to be the one chasing, than the one being chased. Imagine how nervous you would be with Senna in the mirror :D
Dominating is a matter of definition. Prost was conservative, and looked after car and engine through the whole race. Senna was a hothead that gave it all it could take - all the time (oldschool passion racing)
In my book leading the whole race with Sena in the mirror, keeping him behind until Senna went for the smallest gap in history, is domination, yes.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Senna NEVER was ahead of Prost in the whole race, not even in the overtaking move: He was 1/3 behind Prost when The Professor turned into him, so as you can see in the vid, Ayrton NEVER was ahead or side by side..... Be careful, the image speaks by itself, we don't need to create stories or that stuff: Prost was ahead.....
prost closes the door when senna is half way along side his car. prost closed the door way to LATE. not early enough for senna to do anything. Ayrton was already on the side of the track. if it was anyone else other then prost he would of been DSQ from the race and the next race. what about the jump start! how about giving me one time in history when prost was hit by the rules! JUMP START JUMP START, its the only reason prost was even ahead of senna in the first place!
at 1:02 in the video he's between the yellows and the side of the track, too fast too successfully make the right and left. at 1:23 same turn he's over the yellows. anyone that doesn't see he stuffed the turn hopeing prost would back off and let him through needs glasses and his head examined and ,he was NOT wheel to wheel mr. guru. maybe you should see a guru for some 'enlightenment'.........
Prost was still ahead (please watch the helicopter view again. As long as his car was ahead, he had the tight to take that line, that was why he wasn´t punished.
The rules have changed since then, because of situation like these.
i agree with you testacorsa150, senna was not far enough beside prost, they were certainly not wheel to wheel. senna was a long way back when attempting this move. on many occasions when prost has attempted to pass in similar situations he has conceded and waited for a better opportunity. senna was great no doubt but too hot headed, and this was an example of it. sorry ayrton, dont like to say it but it was your fault.
100% jimmyg141: it was just a race incident provoked by both. Ayrton's move was too optimistic: did He really believe Prost was going let him pass in the easy way, after having lead ALL race, giving Senna only 1 possibility to go for it (and ended in an accident)? After 47 laps, with 6 laps to go, He made his unique and only real charge on Prost, and ended in disaster.... I'm a Senna fan, but Prost was the man of the day in Japan 89: He controlled the race, as He controlled Senna's overtaking..
prost dominated the race with his 5 second gap? how far whould ayrton of pulled away had he gotten by? how did he pass ayrton in the first place? go back and watch the start at 1/4 speed you will see prost jump the start by quite a bit! and ayrtons move was more then clean not to mention watching the video you can clearly see the chicane was the only place to pass. ayrton also passed the benetton for the lead on the exact same line. prost looked in the mirror and turned into Ayrton.
@maconhadalata I'm not blind. I only see Prost LEADING the race all along and only one single move by Ayrton to overtaking him in the WHOLE RACE: It was PROST'S race, not Senna's.... And Prost simply close the door deliberately, as Ayrton ALWAYS used to do.... He did the same in Estoril 89 with a DSQ Mansell..... remember? This time it was Senna who tasted a little bit of his own medicine.......
Some have commented that Senna was disqualified because he cut the chicnae.
Actually, he was disqualified because he got an illegal push start. In the late 80s a push start was only legal if the car had come to rest in a location that posed danger to the competitors still left on the track.
As no part of Senna's car was obstructing the track the push start was illegal.
a rule like that should not be inforced when a driver is hit by another driver and needs a push to enter the race. if he spun and needed a push that would be quite different now wouldnt it. as far as i knew he was disqualified for cutting the chicane the car was legaly aloud to be pushed out of the way. which they did with prosts car too. but to push start Senna on the track they would of had to push him ON THE TRACK INSTEAD OF ON THE RUN OFF. they contradicte them selves!
Actually they don´t. He actually has two attempts at getting the car started. First time he was in a danger zone - and it was allowed to be pushed. The car doesn´t start, so the safety marshals keep pushing, and it starts outside the track. The official reason for disqualifying is cutting the chicane, but he is pushed outside the track, so either reason should diqualify him.
I guess it will never be answered if Prost did it intentionally.
It looks like he is turning in a bit much, but not too much i think.
I wondered about it a lot, and I seem to remember a helicopter shot during the race, of another driver, taking the chikane the same way as Prost. Sadly i don´t have the full video anymore.
If you read to the buttom of my discpription, i wrote a bit about it already. As i see it, Senna was correctly disqualified. Official reason was cutting the chikane.
Although the best reason for me is the second push start attempt. The first one while being in a "dangerous position", but the car didn´t start. At the second attempt, the car was of the track, where push starting wasn´t allowed. (in video 1/2, you can clearly see that this is the case)
Not a Senna fan,but the helicopter camera clearly shows Prost waiting for Senna's move at 016-018.He let him in till 021and at 022,the right time,he squeezed him. But beware that Senna was often playing unfairly when defending:so no complains. He had to expect it:mistakenly he thought Prost would have let him go...
Had he attacked at high speed smw else Prost would have given up as he wasn't willing to push luck.A few laps still to go:Senna was great but often lacking patience. Omop....
I'm sorry, but Ayrton NEVER was side by side. It's funny to see that, even after the accident and with both cars stopped there on the chicane, Prost car was still a wheel ahead.... Ayrton NEVER managed to be a single inch ahead of Prost. It was Prost's race,I'm sorry... No "robbery", Prost simply outsmarted Senna in 1989... And as you say JMRRF, even wining, the real facts show the Champion was Prost, with or without DSQ....
Obviously Prost was ahead of Senna because he locked the door before Senna could overtake him. And he knew that with this accident he would be the WC...
If you look the helicoopter camera carefully you see that Prost starts the corner 20 m before the corner...
My question: did he want to take this corner on the grass, or he wanted to crash into Senna??
If Prost wanted to defend the 1st position, he should go inside and break hard through the chicane (Michael Schumacher shown how to defend that way against Hakkinen in Montreal 1998), not to crash when Senna was side to side with him. Nevertheless if Senna had won this GP, Prost would become champion because the brazilian didn't success in the wet race of Adelaide (Prost's glory track).
this was andrea de cesaris's fault
flipsidedogchop 1 year ago
dans 100ans encore,on reparlera de cette course...enfin de ce premier virage,
le plus retord des 2? Les 2 mon general !
grigouyou 1 year ago
Fully Senna's fault. Went for something that simply wasn't there. No chance to get by.
minaoleneestlane 1 year ago 3
schumacher did this and was labelled a cheat these boys did it more than once but are regarded as heros. schumacher did it senna did it prost did it they will all do it if it means winning or losing the championship,
rneoman 1 year ago
Parking formula 1 style
Sinmale1 1 year ago
man i would have killed to be born in this era of f1 now imma 19 and f1 wtf has happened to it been watching since i was 4 yrs old senna prost by far the two greatest
dojOdRiFTeR 1 year ago
I've seen this vid some times before but this particular time I really believe Prost didn't see him, he was simply not expecting a move there.
Anyway, history is already written.
lcville 1 year ago
how can he not of seen him LOL he must of been blind not to see him
ChuckmcberryFilms 1 year ago
clearly that was an ultimate attempt for the championship but nobody would attempt a smart considered move like that in an slow corner...i would give the advantage at prost
KARELDT 1 year ago
If Senna was so fast then why take that stupid risk there?
You cannot blame Prost for that, just looking at the corner makes me laugh how awful of an atempt that was to overtake, even Alesi woundn't try that.
Killa4Life111 2 years ago
Well, Senna took the inside and Prost had to see in the mirror that Senna was going to pass him. I think Prost saw Senna and decided to finish the champpionship there. He knew that Senna was faster than him...
dartharmani 2 years ago
obviously he did it on purpose. even schumi bumped into hill on purpose in 1994, and on villeneuve on purpose in 1997
NationOfMasturbation 2 years ago
well, Senna and Schumi are 2 different people, my friend :)
Ilko2007 2 years ago 2
i'm talking about Prost
NationOfMasturbation 2 years ago
@dartharmani EXPLAIN how Ayrton was faster than Prost that day in Japan, when the guy that even lead ALL the race (at some stages by almost 10sec....) was Prost, not Senna. Nonesense. And I am a Senna FAN, but it was Prost's race and Title, TOTALLY DESERVED 3rd Title for Alain Prost....
lucianoestivill 1 year ago
Even 21 year later, I never can see these images without turn the face. This smell very bad ! I remember Senna back to race make a pit and winning in a brilliant way !!!
I forgave Prost when Senna took a reaproximation from him in the end of 1993. But please let Senna's memory in peace !
saci30 2 years ago
Comment removed
saci30 2 years ago
Comment removed
saci30 2 years ago
Have to say I agree with what James Hunt said. Prost was always going to turn into the corner, as was his right and Senna being as experienced as he was should have realised that (since he would have himself) and not gone for a gap that really wasn't there. He should have left it and tried to get Prost at the end of the pit straight.
Either way I think it was just a racing incident but Senna's DQ was justified. He got a push start and he bypassed the chicane, both illegally.
Holden308 2 years ago
Prost pressed his breaks about 40 feet earlier than Senna, allowing the overtake, and when he finally decided to turn right on the chicane, Senna already had the inside. The slow motion makes it clear.
evangelistabjj 2 years ago
The real shame was the ruling.
If they had ruled better it would have avoided the shit that happened the following year.
But hey, I cant say I blame either driver for any of it. It was such a tense time in F1... heck its the most intense competition I have ever seen in any sport.
Awesome drive by Senna after the crash. RIP champ, you were the greatest every in my book.
alin1975 2 years ago 2
one more thing... you all say that his was desperate move...
how can it be desperate when there is 10 laps+ to go... explain to me...
davorsertic 2 years ago
Senna pulled off a great overtaking move which Prost didn't expect. At the last moment Prost realised he was about to be beaten and closed the door. And because Prost is French, and Balestre is French, there was nothing Ayrton could do. So no wonder Ayrton did what he did a year later.
Stevesixty7 2 years ago
You're fully right Man.
I am French and I say it: Shame on you Prost, Fuck you Balestre.
Ayrton wll remain the best Driver of ever.
Hope Bruno would be able to honor his uncle very soon.
42Espoo 2 years ago
I take my hat off to you 42Espoo for your truthful comments.
Stevesixty7 2 years ago
@42Espoo
Great french mate ! I love french people !! And brave ones that figth against the nazis ! I proud from you. Great France !
It is nice to see some Prost's interviews when he says about Senna. But ... ,I don't like the way that Prost says something about Senna ... By now, he still manipulate somethings .. It is a pity that in 89 he prefered make politics than be a driver race.
The result is ...
saci30 2 years ago
i was trying to eplain the same thing... fantastic mate! fantastic!
davorsertic 2 years ago
Senna was faster than him for 25 laps or so, if Senna got the lead at that point Prost would never be able to catch him at that point.
evangelistabjj 2 years ago
everything James Hunt said about this incident is right. Senna put himself in an impossible situation in trying to overtake Prost at the chicane before the pits. Prost knew Senna was going to go for it, and he did, and they tangled.
hmdwgf 2 years ago 5
Exactly! :)
testacorsa150 2 years ago
@hmdwgf prost went in to senna..not the other way around. Senna went for a gap and DID not run in to prost. Then "what more could he do" he could not let him pass by driving in to sennas car and secure the title, and thats what he did. Senna the best ever
donjuandemajk 1 year ago
@donjuandemajk that is an ignorant and one-sided argument from a Senna fanboy himself. Like Prost, i certainly do agree Senna was one of the best Formula One drivers of all time. but that is not true. it was simply a matter of refusing to back down on both driver's part and Senna even admitted he intentionally ran into Prost at Suzuka in 1990.
hmdwgf 1 year ago
@hmdwgf yes no one backed down in that situation. Thats true. But i just got a little angry at the commentator, supporting prost 100% claiming it was all sennas fault.. It takes two to start a conflict is a swedish saying :) and if you could get any proof for "senna admitted to run into prost at suzuka 1990" i would appreciate if you could send me a video or something.
donjuandemajk 1 year ago
@hmdwgf
I don't think that both incident are related.
jerste 1 year ago
That was the most unfair championship ends.. The big directors took Senna's championship away and gave to Prost... A Big Shame on F1 !
RioBoyyy 2 years ago
and why nobody say something for that, i hear at every moment that is Schumi a cheater but this video prove that is also a Prost cheater why nobody say tahat for Prost, i we are honest Senna should be world champion in 1989 because Prost crash deliberate directly into Senna's car
Pilot171990 2 years ago
1990 sanna maks the same with prost!!!
Pjocker01 2 years ago
There's an onboard from Prost's car, he turns into Senna not the corner. If he turned into the same corner on his own, he would have beached the car on the curb.
Fact of the matter is this, Senna and Prost were simply that much better than everyone else. There names where the top of the sport from 81-94.
Senna was faster, Prost was smarter. (Mexico 90 is the best example)
Erkal2006 2 years ago
It´s pretty obvious Prost took Senna out.
He turned into the chicane 20m too early.
No matter though, Senna got his revenge the next year !
Ifuckingh8you 2 years ago
M1ggins, you are the one talking the shits, let's keep this civil, do NOT attack me........Prost outscored Senna on ALL fronts except poles
amershaaban 2 years ago
amershaaban, respecet to Prost, as teh 2 best ever. But, did he:
won with no brakes?
with missing some gears?
with a car like a Tolleman?
Senna did!
Was he good in wet tracks?
Did he made something like Senna did in Europe GP 93??
Senna, the best ever..
Rozinete1 2 years ago
Rozinete1, being a Senna fan myself, I tell you this: Prost won with no brakes (in that non-popular Monaco 84 Prost win, in which He even led the race by 30sec. to the guy behind by lap 20..... I don't remember if He won with missing years, but I remember He raced in Belgium 86, after a colission with Berger and 1 lap behind, going from 28th up to 6th, setting a Fastest Lap 2 sec faster than anybody else with a adjusting steering wheel 90 degrees and without using the boost not even once.....
lucianoestivill 2 years ago
On the other hand, Prost didn't win with a Toleman, but Senna didn't win with a Toleman as well!!!!.
If we talk about brakes, I still remember Alain testing a Ligier-Renault in 1992, barefoot (with no shoes....), setting the fastest lap in the testings (1sec. faster than Ligier driver Panis, for example), and it's amazing the way He did it: Prost was 1sec. faster than official drivers, without touching the brakes not even only once: engineers looked telemetry and were speechless!!!
lucianoestivill 2 years ago
Ayrton raced a superb race in Europe 93, He was magnificent that day but..... Do you remember Kyalami 82? Prost had a puncture in 1st lap, so went to pits and rejoined in last place 1 lap behind..... But still, by sheer brilliance, charged up to a dominant lead to win the race.... Ayrton never did that. You can love him or hate him (I love Prost), but He was a GIANT of a driver. As P. Tambay said: I saw only 3 with kind of geniuses that cannot be explained: Senna, Prost, and Gilles.....
lucianoestivill 2 years ago 2
Senna knew it was a lost cause, he never talked to any of the drivers in the paddock, he never helped his team mates, all he did was bully others to win, winning was his only mode of driving, in this case he got what he was looking for. Alain Prost is the best driver of all time!
amershaaban 2 years ago
you & Hunt both talk shit., looking at 0.20 - 0.24 you can see Prost turns into Senna, not the bend, his Angle of turn would've taken him off track, dirty cheating Frenchman got his just deserts in 90. Senna was easily the best driver of the 2, Prost knew it, that's why he only came out of retirement when Senna was dead, what a loser.
M1ggins 2 years ago
Prost car nose is AHEAD of Senna's car, it was Prost's corner, Senna drove into him
amershaaban 2 years ago
rubbish senna was throw prost should of let him throw and retook him just after that corner
ChuckmcberryFilms 2 years ago
Do know the rule?? What matters is not whose nose is ahead. Senna´s car was much more ahead of half Prost´s car. That was the rule.
Prost turn into Senna clearly before the turn.
dognajack 2 years ago
Prost you motherf***er!
PhoenixFirebreath 2 years ago
What are the commentators talking about! Prost clearly turns in far too soon to make the corner. Prost turned into Senna! There is no disputing this overhead camera angle unlike long lens oblique angles from the ground which can distort perspective and give a false impression! James Hunt must have been looking at a very different camera angle to this one.
ianrkav 2 years ago
0:20 prost turns into senna, clearly well before the turn, and clearly into senna after having spotted him in his mirror
kudrei 2 years ago 2
if u see the angle of prosts car at 0:20 he is not turning into the corner as he claims as at that angle he is turning way too early for the apex of the corner. he is clearly simply taking senna off and if u see the inside of prost u can see him repeatedly turning into senna ,even after his car touches and bounces away, he immediately turns back into senna!!!!!!! prost u are a cheat!!
specialsenna 2 years ago
I agree! There is absolutely no question about it, especially from this overhead angle. Prost turned into Senna! Deliberately!!
ianrkav 2 years ago 2
what would you have done?? just let him through??
Dannzt 1 year ago
@Dannzt In Prost's position I would have done the same! Take Senna out, I win the world championship! A legitimate tactic at the time. I was just pointing out the nonsense Hunt was talking. Prost was not turning in for a corner, he was turning in to take out Senna. Simple:-))
Senna returned the favour the following year on the same track:-)) Why can't F1 be like that today:-))
ianrkav 1 year ago
@ianrkavi agree, these guys were gods gift to the steering wheel, today its all about safety and punishments and everytime someone does something to overtake or defend their position (like hamiltons right-left driving in malaysia or alonso overtaking massa in the pit-lane) people start to whine about dangerous driving and so on , formula 1 have always been a dangerous sport and the drivers know what their getting in to, people should learn to deal with that=)
Dannzt 1 year ago
@Dannzt No doubt about that! There are far too many 'PC' rules and regs in the sport these days. I got back into F1 in 2007 because of the Hamilton hype, but I have yet to see an exciting race! Hamilton's weaving was fine with me, so was Alonso's pit lane overtaking, the sport needs more of these antics. I just hope Schuey gets up to his old tricks! Mind you, the way it's going for him I think he's going to have to:-))
ianrkav 1 year ago
@Dannzt By the way, one of the best F1 battles ever took place at Dijon in 1979 between Renee Arnoux and Giles Vilneuve, with both drivers overtaking each other many times and this was a battle for second place! No one remembers who actually won the race, I think it was Arnoux's teammate in the other 1.5 Turbo Renault. I must check:-)
Youtube 'F1 Dijon '79. That should find it.
ianrkav 1 year ago
@ianrkav dijon 1979 where true poetry, ive seen it many times, i thin it whas jabouille (i have NO clue how to spell that) who won that race, f1 needs more of this type of drivers
Dannzt 1 year ago
@Dannzt Yes definitely:-) Also, fewer rules = more exciting racing!
ianrkav 1 year ago
hmmm i wonder why the pass on nannini is not there. maybe because it is an exact replica of the pass on prost! this seems very biased. lol at how hunt goes from one thing to the other and finaly ends it with "it was a slow corner of course prost would hit him" thats terribly weak. this is not how a racing fan likes to see a championship end. by the way the info is wrong murray walker is sided on ayrtons side. he sees fault in what prost did!
ImmortalSenna 2 years ago
The clip is called Senna vs. Prost - that is why the nanini overtake isn´t there.
The anini overtake was not the same at all. Nanini just gave is, and there was actually a gap to go for.
Ofcourse it´s sad to an end like that, but on tyhe other hand we have a great moment in racing history to discuss :)
testacorsa150 2 years ago
no i dont think so it was an exact replica. ayrton made sure of it he could of passed that car anywhere on the track. are you a shumacher fan? honestly. prost pulled out the political cards in this race plain and simple. didnt get busted for the jump start which was the only reason prost was ahead in the first place. and theres no ifs ands or buts about that ive watched it on dvd many times in slow speed. he jumps it hunt called it out. it wasnt by much but thats all you need isnt it?
ImmortalSenna 2 years ago
We don´t agree on the overtakes then :)
I am a Schumacher fan, YES!!!
If the jump start is only clearly visible in replay, and the FIA judges did not see it, when it happened - who can we blame?
Prost had luck on his side that day - no doubt about it.
testacorsa150 2 years ago
another thing i find very strange is that f1 is set up to avoid jump starts with the random go times. anywhere from 1 - 5 seconds or something like that. my point is the only way a driver could jump the start is if he KNEW when the light would go out. i can see balestre giving such info to prost. and yea we do have this to disscuss but you get ppl that think prost dominated the race. jumping the start holding a 5 second gap AND making contact is not domination. right?
ImmortalSenna 2 years ago
It is always easier (faster) to be the one chasing, than the one being chased. Imagine how nervous you would be with Senna in the mirror :D
Dominating is a matter of definition. Prost was conservative, and looked after car and engine through the whole race. Senna was a hothead that gave it all it could take - all the time (oldschool passion racing)
In my book leading the whole race with Sena in the mirror, keeping him behind until Senna went for the smallest gap in history, is domination, yes.
testacorsa150 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Senna NEVER was ahead of Prost in the whole race, not even in the overtaking move: He was 1/3 behind Prost when The Professor turned into him, so as you can see in the vid, Ayrton NEVER was ahead or side by side..... Be careful, the image speaks by itself, we don't need to create stories or that stuff: Prost was ahead.....
lucianoestivill 2 years ago
prost closes the door when senna is half way along side his car. prost closed the door way to LATE. not early enough for senna to do anything. Ayrton was already on the side of the track. if it was anyone else other then prost he would of been DSQ from the race and the next race. what about the jump start! how about giving me one time in history when prost was hit by the rules! JUMP START JUMP START, its the only reason prost was even ahead of senna in the first place!
ImmortalSenna 2 years ago
at 1:02 in the video he's between the yellows and the side of the track, too fast too successfully make the right and left. at 1:23 same turn he's over the yellows. anyone that doesn't see he stuffed the turn hopeing prost would back off and let him through needs glasses and his head examined and ,he was NOT wheel to wheel mr. guru. maybe you should see a guru for some 'enlightenment'.........
motogpracebikes 2 years ago
Prost was still ahead (please watch the helicopter view again. As long as his car was ahead, he had the tight to take that line, that was why he wasn´t punished.
The rules have changed since then, because of situation like these.
testacorsa150 2 years ago
i agree with you testacorsa150, senna was not far enough beside prost, they were certainly not wheel to wheel. senna was a long way back when attempting this move. on many occasions when prost has attempted to pass in similar situations he has conceded and waited for a better opportunity. senna was great no doubt but too hot headed, and this was an example of it. sorry ayrton, dont like to say it but it was your fault.
jimmyg141 2 years ago
100% jimmyg141: it was just a race incident provoked by both. Ayrton's move was too optimistic: did He really believe Prost was going let him pass in the easy way, after having lead ALL race, giving Senna only 1 possibility to go for it (and ended in an accident)? After 47 laps, with 6 laps to go, He made his unique and only real charge on Prost, and ended in disaster.... I'm a Senna fan, but Prost was the man of the day in Japan 89: He controlled the race, as He controlled Senna's overtaking..
lucianoestivill 2 years ago
prost dominated the race with his 5 second gap? how far whould ayrton of pulled away had he gotten by? how did he pass ayrton in the first place? go back and watch the start at 1/4 speed you will see prost jump the start by quite a bit! and ayrtons move was more then clean not to mention watching the video you can clearly see the chicane was the only place to pass. ayrton also passed the benetton for the lead on the exact same line. prost looked in the mirror and turned into Ayrton.
ImmortalSenna 2 years ago
again a spot on remark lucianoestivill !!!
testacorsa150 2 years ago
@lucianoestivill man....are you blindo?????you can see clearly that prost turned into sennas car!!!!
maconhadalata 1 year ago
@maconhadalata I'm not blind. I only see Prost LEADING the race all along and only one single move by Ayrton to overtaking him in the WHOLE RACE: It was PROST'S race, not Senna's.... And Prost simply close the door deliberately, as Ayrton ALWAYS used to do.... He did the same in Estoril 89 with a DSQ Mansell..... remember? This time it was Senna who tasted a little bit of his own medicine.......
lucianoestivill 1 year ago
balestre the French muppet
FatPizza56 2 years ago
Some have commented that Senna was disqualified because he cut the chicnae.
Actually, he was disqualified because he got an illegal push start. In the late 80s a push start was only legal if the car had come to rest in a location that posed danger to the competitors still left on the track.
As no part of Senna's car was obstructing the track the push start was illegal.
altroval 2 years ago 3
a rule like that should not be inforced when a driver is hit by another driver and needs a push to enter the race. if he spun and needed a push that would be quite different now wouldnt it. as far as i knew he was disqualified for cutting the chicane the car was legaly aloud to be pushed out of the way. which they did with prosts car too. but to push start Senna on the track they would of had to push him ON THE TRACK INSTEAD OF ON THE RUN OFF. they contradicte them selves!
ImmortalSenna 2 years ago
Actually they don´t. He actually has two attempts at getting the car started. First time he was in a danger zone - and it was allowed to be pushed. The car doesn´t start, so the safety marshals keep pushing, and it starts outside the track. The official reason for disqualifying is cutting the chicane, but he is pushed outside the track, so either reason should diqualify him.
testacorsa150 2 years ago 2
Thanks, and you are welcome :)
I guess it will never be answered if Prost did it intentionally.
It looks like he is turning in a bit much, but not too much i think.
I wondered about it a lot, and I seem to remember a helicopter shot during the race, of another driver, taking the chikane the same way as Prost. Sadly i don´t have the full video anymore.
Thanks for your comments!
testacorsa150 2 years ago
i don´t agree. The chicane is done by cutting the curb a lot. if you look at 2:05 you will notice that senna is also turning in before they collide.
testacorsa150 2 years ago
Senna was only turning in at that point because Prost was moving in on him.
moshambles 2 years ago
The problem is not to know if Prost or Senna are right but why Senna is Diqualified for cuting the chicane !?
matchou75 2 years ago
Both of them are important, i think.
If you read to the buttom of my discpription, i wrote a bit about it already. As i see it, Senna was correctly disqualified. Official reason was cutting the chikane.
Although the best reason for me is the second push start attempt. The first one while being in a "dangerous position", but the car didn´t start. At the second attempt, the car was of the track, where push starting wasn´t allowed. (in video 1/2, you can clearly see that this is the case)
testacorsa150 2 years ago
Not a Senna fan,but the helicopter camera clearly shows Prost waiting for Senna's move at 016-018.He let him in till 021and at 022,the right time,he squeezed him. But beware that Senna was often playing unfairly when defending:so no complains. He had to expect it:mistakenly he thought Prost would have let him go...
Had he attacked at high speed smw else Prost would have given up as he wasn't willing to push luck.A few laps still to go:Senna was great but often lacking patience. Omop....
indigoblue555 3 years ago 3
I'm sorry, but Ayrton NEVER was side by side. It's funny to see that, even after the accident and with both cars stopped there on the chicane, Prost car was still a wheel ahead.... Ayrton NEVER managed to be a single inch ahead of Prost. It was Prost's race,I'm sorry... No "robbery", Prost simply outsmarted Senna in 1989... And as you say JMRRF, even wining, the real facts show the Champion was Prost, with or without DSQ....
lucianoestivill 3 years ago
Obviously Prost was ahead of Senna because he locked the door before Senna could overtake him. And he knew that with this accident he would be the WC...
If you look the helicoopter camera carefully you see that Prost starts the corner 20 m before the corner...
My question: did he want to take this corner on the grass, or he wanted to crash into Senna??
kurblee 3 years ago 2
If Prost wanted to defend the 1st position, he should go inside and break hard through the chicane (Michael Schumacher shown how to defend that way against Hakkinen in Montreal 1998), not to crash when Senna was side to side with him. Nevertheless if Senna had won this GP, Prost would become champion because the brazilian didn't success in the wet race of Adelaide (Prost's glory track).
JMRRF 3 years ago 3