Tell that the guy I reply to. He was say it would take 6 loco today to pull a mile train like this. Trust me, I know what it takes. I used to be an engineer and have pulled mile+ long trains before and stake trains just like this from KC to Clinton, IA.
boy look at her moving like that!, and just think, a modern diesel would have had a few other diesels strapped on, 3985 is true power, same for all steam engines
It is unclear what the steam locomotive is stronger. UP 3985 - Tractive Effort 97,350 lbf (433.03 kN) N & W 1218th Tractive Effort -114,000 lbf (507.10 kN) Big Boy Tractive Effort - 135,375 lbf (602.18 kN) N & W2156 Tractive Effort -166,000 lbf (738.4 kN) !!!!!!!!!
@ikefemula Those are just starting tractive ratings, which determines how much train a locomotive can start. It takes horsepower to get and maintain a train moving at speed. Of those you mentioned, the Big Boy produced the most power at speed, approx. 6000 to 6200 HP. The N&W Y's power curve fell dramatically above 20 mph. They could get a train moving, but not pull it very fast.
A C&O 2-6-6-6 could have done this with ease. C&O pulled fast freights across Ohio with them in the last years of steam. The Allegheny could easily reach speeds of 70 the flat.
@criind Agree with you about the C&O 2-6-6-6. Their high speed horsepower output blows both the Challenger and the Class A away. The 2-6-6-6 can produce a good 1500 to 2000 HP more at the drawbar than either the Challenger or Class A
The Union Pacific Railroad is bad ass and has balls to show off steam engine "The Challenger 3985" pulling a real freight train... an intermodel train over the hill solo! Santa Fe (BNSF) with the 3751 or the 4449 not going to happen, maybe the Daylight but it isn't a freight hauler... Long live UP steam!
@princenoah21 6 locos on this train, I think not. The most it would need with modern engine (SD70ace or GEVO) for that say train would probably be 3. Stack trains don't have as much TPOB as most mixed.
@pdlip1 One ES44AC or SD70ace could pull this train up the little bump that Archer Hill is easily. The reason that you may see 3 ES44ACs on a stack train is because you need that much HP to pull it at 70 mph. It takes many times the HP to pull a train at 70 mph, than it does to pull the same train at 30 mph.
@steamingpoopfart The Big Boy NEVER pulled a train 5.5 miles long. The longest train puled in the U.S. was in 1967 by the N&W as a test. It contained 500 cars, was 21,424 feet long (4 miles long) and needed 21,650 HP. The Big Boy produced 6,000 HP, so it simply would not have enough power to pull any thing that long by itself.
All in a day's ferry work for the crew of #3985 betwixt passenger-train appointments, and they make pulling 3,000+ tons of containerized goods look easy. This 4-6+6-4 Union Pacific/Alco Class CAC-4 single-expansion will probably meet a GE Centennial at her next excursion pull, as modern varnish has electrification beyond what her own steam-turbine generators will feed.
i just want to say who ever had the awesome idea to take this restored locomotive on a real frieght run I hope lives the rest of his life of altiment awesomeness and wealth. Same with whomever filmed this.Thanks for posting.
@Triplex5014 No, it's not better. A single modern unit like SD70ACe will smash by far the 4-6-6-4 in high tractive effort operations, even the Big Boy 4-8-8-4... SD70ACe 157,000 lbs continuous TE vs. the Big Boy Tractive effort 135,375 lbf. The Big Boy will only run a little faster than the diesel unit because its higher HP rating boiler. Take care ;)
@Strasburgfanatic Thank you for the good info. I'm a big fan of both american diesel and steam engines. The N&W Y6b is quite a heavy loco judging from the wiki article. I'll look more into it when I'll have enough time. Take care :)
@Strasburgfanatic A Y6 could never match the performance of a Challenger at this speed. Y6 could produce more starting pull, but their firebox was too small to produce power at speed. Firebox sizes: 1. C&O 2-6-6-6, 762 sq.ft. 2. B&O 2-8-8-4, 756 sq.ft., 3. DM&IR 2-8-8-4, 750 sq.ft. 4. UP Big Boy, 704 sq.ft. 5. UP Challenger 602 sq.ft. 6. N&W A 587 sq.ft. 7. N&W Y6 430 sq.ft. The N&W engines had the smallest fireboxes of "Big Steam" and their power output was totally over-rated.
@UnIonPacCheyenne The Y6's on the N&W were not built for speed. They were built to haul 13-14,000 ton coal trains over the Blue Ridge mountains. They produced their maximum horsepower of about 5600hp at roughly 25mph. The Y6 could have pulled that train in this video and probably at about the same speed (35mph). The Class A's on the N&W (1218) could have done it also and at a higher speed.
Information from N&W Giant of Steam by Col. Lewis Ingles Jeffries.
@criind I doubt the Y produced anywhere near 5600 HP in reality. Their boilers were too small at 106 sq.ft grate area and a firebox no bigger than the typical 4-8-2 Mountain type of locomotive. The N&W Historical Society ran a number of articles in "The Arrow", written by advanced degree Mechanical Engineers, that pretty much said that most of the info in railfan books about N&W steam is exaggerated to the point of being fantasy. Just because it is in a book, doesn't make it true.
@UnIonPacCheyenne As I said the Y6 was not built for speed. There was no need for a coal train to go 60mph. They usually went about 35 to 40 on the flat. Lets not forget that the grade up Blue Ridge on the N&W was 2.2 percent. The N&W would double a Class A and Y6 on the front and have another pushing on the rear with 150 55 ton coal hoppers.
A grade like Archer Hill that is only 0.7 percent foe eastbound traffic would not require as much horsepower or tractive effort to get a train over.
@LS6Z28 Remember fuel is expensive, and the railroads will pay good money for power, so lets kill two birds with one stone, someone needs the engine somewhere and the RR needs there freight somewhere as well.
At the time, Challenger was out touring the rails on one of her steam excursions, so Union Pacific decided to have a little fun and let the old girl pull a freight train on one of her runs.
If they could filter the smoke from steam locomotives then if so they should put every avaliable one back into service.Sure they take lots of attention but more men with a job and sure be exciting to watch freight being hauled again by steam just be heaven. Maybe clean coal or oil.3985 burns oil if i am not mistaken?
You guys need to get the GP7's and GP9's out of your heads!! Sure, it would take a few of those to match the 3985 but ONE MODERN unit can do this! 0.5 percent?!?! Lol that is NOT a hill!!! I've run many trains on 2.6% grades
@trainguy3 Spare parts are hard to come by for steamers nowadays, so they bring along their own, along with a mechanic, in case she breaks down en route and blocks the line
The laws of economics ruled against steam. Sorry, foamers. They are beautiful machines and maybe you are right and one steam engine can do the work of 3 diesels, but its still cheaper to run the diesels. Railroads aren't stupid.
@airborneace I don't think anyone is arguing this. I love steam engines as much as the next guy but I recognize that they're obsolete technology. They are not, however, obsolete because diesels are stronger. 3985 was 47 years old at the time of this video and doing the work she was built for just fine. If steam engine design had continued to advance, I guarantee you we'd have locomotives to rival modern diesels. They wouldn't be cost-effective, though, which is why they won't get built.
I was wondering about the details of this event. I found out this much: On the morning of August 1, 1990 Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 Challenger 3985 slowly pulls out of the Cheyenne, Wyoming yard with the heaviest steam powered freight train since the 50’s. Its destination is North Platte, Nebraska. On the draw bar are 143 cars, 7657 tons and this colossal freight is 8900 feet long. What I'm STILL wondering is what is the ruling grade of Archer Hill?
@cidispatcher Archer Hill is just east of downtown Cheyenne. It is approx. 1 mile in length. Grade ranges from 0.5% to 0.6%. The track only gains 35 feet in elevation. Like I have been saying, not much of a "hill". Great photo location to catch trains, especially at the "S" curve portion. Operationally, it is just a small uphill bump in the downhill (eastbound) direction.
Also, later that year: “During a dead-head move on September 18, 1990, UP dispatched 4-6-6-4 #3985 on Denver-North Platte manifest DENP-17, 16 loads and 56 empties. Work included stopping at several locations to do pick-ups and set-outs.” (Railfan & Railroad Dec 1990) PR or not, at least she gets to pull a real load now and then.
Give poor old 3985 a break. Yea, she technically is not as capable as a modern diesel locomotive. But on this day: “On August 1, 1990, UP dispatched Challenger 4-6-6-4 #3985 on stack train LAAP-1 from Cheyenne to North Platte. Three diesels brought the train into Cheyenne, but 3985 took it the rest of the way unassisted. Train consisted of 143 loaded double stack cars, for 7657 tons. 3985 maintained track speeds of 65 mph for the majority of the trip, and crested Archer Hill at 35 mph.”
Sorry, Archer Hill is eastbound ascent, downhill wb. As for comparing dissimilar motive power, both horsepower curve & tractive effort curve are VERY different between steam & diesel! A late road foreman would definitely know the diesel data but not steam. And many "Berks" produced 4,500 drawbar hp in dynamometer tests. C60ACs are brutes for sure. But essartee76, if you're a locomotive engineer on the UP you would know that the C60s, while still around, are regarded as a limited success.
@Va1or5torm Let's try to get this straight once and for all. The UP main line's general direction is DOWNHILL eastbound and UPHILL westbound. The 3985 is taking that train downhill, with the exception of Archer Hill, which is a very short uphill "bump" going in the downhill direction. It is what is know as a "momentum hill", meaning a train's speed and mass will do most of the work getting the tonnage over the bump. It's the same principle that roller coasters use at an amusement park.
@UnIonPacCheyenne There are indeed "momentum grades". In this case however, the climb eastbound begins in Cheyenne. In fact, on the UP, it's an ascending grade starting in Cheyenne in all 3 directions. And altho the entire Great Plains are obviously eastbound descent, the 3985 is indeed climbing a grade.
@Va1or5torm Archer is very short and not steep at all. Stop trying to make it out to be more than the tiny bump that it is. Calling it a "hill" is a joke. Put the 3985 west of Cheyenne on Sherman Hill with this train and watch how fast it stalls and goes nowhere with its limited tractive effort.
@UnIonPacCheyenne The train is on an S curve and a .5% grade and with a 8900 foot long train behind you its going to have heck of an effect on the train. And I reckon that if 3985 was allowed to get enough of a run at sherman hill it might have a chance to make with modern roller bearing trucks, and 5-well double stack cars that doesn't have that much drag.
@TheKGamer08 Well, you reckon wrong because Sherman hill is both steeper and much longer than Archer. Any momentum the 3985 would have with a 7000 ton train would be quickly lost within the first 1/2 mile up Sherman westbound (Tracks 1&2 are a 1.55% for 20 miles; Tracks 3&4 are 0.82% for 45 miles) After the rolling momentum is lost, it becomes a pulling (tractive effort) contest, and the 3985 simply does not produce enough tractive effort to take that much tonnage up Sherman.
@UnIonPacCheyenne The speed wasn't really for momentum but to be able to reach the full hp of the locomotive, which is reached at about 40-50 mph that is the real reason the engine can out pull two or three diesels. being able to have power at speed is what allows steamers to do more with the momentum they have.
@TheKGamer08 Diesel-Electric locomotives produce their full rated HP over their ENTIRE speed range, not at a specific speed like a steamer. The 3985 can outpull 3 old GP9s simply because it produces more power at the rail than 3 old GP9s. It only produces slightly more HP at the rail than a ES44 at 50 mph, and a single AC6000 will out power the 3985 at any speed. I just can't understand why you people can't comprehend some basic facts on power output.
@UnionPacCheyenne I don't even know why we waste our time here. I'm a locomotive engineer and was a Road Foreman of Engines. We both know what we're talking about. Even Lima's "superpower" Berkshires only developed around 2700 horsepower! I had no idea there was so much ignorance out there
@originalwinja I know exactly what one C60AC will pull, especially on the flatlands here in this video. Facts are facts, but go ahead and live in your little dream world. A C60AC is the strongest engine ever produced, period. Lmao at your "between 4 and 6!! That would rip this train apart!! Due to powered axle restrictions only 2 C60AC units can be online due to their adhesion
@essartee76 well...between 4 and 6 of them will out do a single steam, but one for one you will never see a single C60AC pulling 143 cars. as we see in this video 3 diesel engines with empty rail cars passing in opposite direction of the single loaded challenger with no help.
@origionalwinja Did you ever consider the train passing in the opposite direction is westbound, and westbound is the UPHILL direction on the UP main line? Of course its needs more power. Other than Archer Hill, which is a very short hill that trains can carry a lot of momentum up, the 3985 is going DOWNHILL eastbound. When heading westbound back to Cheyenne, the 3985 only manages 50 cars.
Um, here's the real question about this steam vs diesel debate... WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? Can't people just be happy to see an amazing piece of history still in action and hauling a modern day freight train? Who cares if a new diesel can do it, it doesn't matter. I'm just happy UP still does stuff like this. Why do people have to turn everything into some big argument? Enjoy it for what it is... Entertainment!
@Defiant47 I agree 100%. But really, the only ones arguing over whether steam or diesel is better are the 13-15 year old kids who don't know any better. Just best to roll your eyes, and ignore them.
@dcoursey82 When was this footage taken? Looks beautiful, however it amazes me to see a steam locomotive in front of what seems to be a regular freight train. In Europe they don't do this anymore. :-(
@dcoursey82 Watch it buddy. Before you go stereotyping what age group thinks steam is better (I'm almost 15), I garuntee that people older then you and the same age as you argue the same thing.
@Defiant47 funny thing is if Diesels were pulling this you would have at least two or three on the train at least and who cares nothing is better then hearing the steam whistle blow, the sound of the piston turning, sound of steam, the smell and raw power (pretty much everything) of a steam engine flying by!!! next to the air horn, humming and smell of a diesel!!! which is awesome in its own way, but growing up seeing both anyone would choice the Steam engine!!!
@WorldOfNothin Don't forget one pushing too. I love both steam and diesel, and like I said, I'm just glad the UP still runs their steamers... AND makes them earn their keep when not on excursion or executive runs. What I was getting at is all the statistics people are throwing out comparing new diesels to old steamers, then fighting over it. It's moronic. Can't people just sit back and enjoy things anymore? Especially something as cool as the 3985 strutting her stuff in the modern world.
@Defiant47 Yeah Steam is rare now and I think the fact it is still alive in some parts of the Country is important and I agree with what your saying! I just wish steam would come back to my area, but N&S was stupid and ended the Steam program so I've seen very little steam in the past, well almost 20 years now, glad N&S start up a small Steam program again, but not seeing it here anytime soon! I was just think of how much I loved and miss the sound of Steam! A real shame to lose it, so enjoy it!
@WorldOfNothin That's one of the coolest things about living in the Kansas City area. I've seen the 844, 3985, and 4449, and before the NS canceled their steam program I saw the 611 and 1218 come through. The 844 is due to come through here near the end of May on it's way to Little Rock, Arkansas, and last fall the 3985 was here. I hope too that some day the NS will bring back the 611 and 1218.
@Defiant47 Yeah I've seen the 611 and 1218 many times when I was younger have pictures of me in the cab and on the front of the 611!!! I've also seen the 4501 and even the 3985, but it was just passing through town on an extremely rare event lol first and only time I've seen a steam engine on CSX lines! would love to see the 844 and especially the 4449, but they, along with the 3985, rarely come across the Mississippi River, I would have to travel to St. Louis at least to see one!
@Defiant47 I think the difference is - whether or not someone has the guts to make steam come back or not...you never know...it could be those same 13-15 year olds who come back 20 years from now and make steamers like the B&O 2-6-6-2 or the NYC J-3's an average consist on a track. It's not about debate..i dont think..i thinks its about what's efficient. But if those teens dont plan on doing anything about it then - well ya its stupid.
@aperturemicah You want to know if teens nowadays will bring steam engines back? I'd restore a steamer myself if I could fix it up to run on the rails of America. Or build a replica of the PRR K4. Take that, Amtrak! There's only the cost of restoring one standing in my way of doing it.
@Fireheart528 That factor of "COST" is the only thing standing in anyones day. A young man will have the upper hand - that he may and will be able to gain knowledge and know the ways of putting a mixture together of, Knowledge and technology...where as, the next question would be- where to find the young man/teen who 1. Has the guts 2. Has the DESIRE to do so.
@aperturemicah And you spot on with that comment, bc I'd love nothing more than the chance to prove all the haters, doubters, and critics wrong who say "Steam is obsolete." The PRR K4 could easily show up Amtrak's P-40 diesels, and with current technology, could possibly out-perform the older K4's by a substantial degree. I have more knowledge of these giants than most teens, and I'll build the old thing myself if I have to! Americans don't give up, you know.
@aperturemicah And there is no other person who can or will tell me "You can't build this." Darlington Locomotive Works built the A1 Peppercorn in 2008! No doubt much improved, and just as strong if not stronger. The K4 is the best choice, not only bc of the impressive performance, but bc it's a very fast engine as well, which is needed if its to run the main lines, as I fully intend on doing. A single K4 and a single P-40 of Amtrak--my money's on the K4. :)
@Fireheart528 THIS IS AMERICA! We build our dreams. Nothing should stop you from building what you want. The Peppercorn - yup..if that cant be made then we cane make a K4. A K4 with some nice new railroading technology, and we could have a nice train running. Railroads need to upgrade - this stupid SD70MAC's and SD40-2's and P-40's that all the railroads are running are getting boring.
ok... sooo, while everybody is dick measuring and fighting about "diesels this" steamers that", i got a question... is challenger still running??? i heard more from 844 than from 3985... simple question that any person could answer... WHERE IS 3985???
@bluesguitardude The 3985 came through Kansas City a few months back. I work right next to the UP main and she was heading east. I've actually seen more of the 3985 than the 844. I'd have to look it up, but one of them is due to come back through this month.
Instead of having steam vs. diesel debates, let us unite against something that actually makes sense---supporting the railroads and bashing the trucking industry for taking away its market-share of the the freight. I mean come on, let's look at the big picture and join hands for once. The 3985 is a sick engine though :-)
@UnIonPacCheyenne so 400,000 pounds of tractive effort so that explains the test run of the 3985 in a tug of war battle when 2 ac6000s were both going notch 8 the othern way????
@UnIonPacCheyenne I don't know if your brain can wrap around this but steam horse power and diesel horse power are not evenly matched. same goes for steam tractive effort diesel tractive effort that's because steam tractive effort is based off of the geometry between the piston and the wheel. diesel its based on the weight on drivers with the stalling force of the motor and the gear ratio. because of this the two cannot be directly related.
@northersteame I don't know if YOUR brain can wrap around this but tractive effort is always defined as the pull a locomotive produces. It is defined the same way for any locomotive: steam, diesel-electric, or pure electric. Likewise, Horsepower has a standard definition. It is the equivalent of 550 ft-lbs per second. This definition is the same for all types of locomotives. I know this because I work with REAL locomotives on the railroad, not model trains like you do.
@UnIonPacCheyenne I don't work with model trains I don't even own one I work with real full size steam locomotives and diesel and I've seen steam locomotives with half the TE of a diesel pull the same. and hp is calculated by weight x ( velocity/ 234 ) ^ 3 which means because the maximum recommended rpm of a steam engine is 180 this means it has to have more force to get the same hp power of a diesel or an electric.
@northersteame Doesn't matter how you try to spin it, equivalent power is equivalent power. The piston thrust will be higher on a steamer than the piston thrust on a diesel, but there are less pistons on a steamer, and like you said they run at a slower rpm. Thanks, for proving my point. Bottom line is 1 horsepower is 1 horsepower regardless of the method of how it is produced.
@northersteame "I don't work with model trains I don't even own one I work with real full size steam locomotives and diesel and I've seen steam locomotives with half the TE of a diesel pull the same."
I don't think you work with any trains, because if you did, you would know that starting TE and power at speed are not the same. A SD38 will have way more starting TE than a GP60, but the GP60 will pull way more train at 50mph than an SD38. What's your point?
Less fuel efficient and much more maintenance intensive......but the old girl can still hold her own on the mainline. And a Big Boy has 40% more tractive effort, too......
I do wonder if a modern steam loco built with modern technology, burning coal in a "worked" form, would not be much more efficient as this machine, built with yesterday;s technology.
Also, do remember, diesel loco's were meant to be a stopgap for more modern electric loco's.
Quite the contrast. You have to wonder, since the US is "the Saudi Arabia of coal", maybe we should go back to these awesome old machines! Of course it'll never happen but it's fun to think about it anyway! :)
@trooptpt80 This was a promotional trip for APL! I believe it ran from Cheyenne to North Platte! I think this was in the early to mid '90's The railfan press was all over it.
@TheRush341 5 SD40s? LOL. No way. The 3985 puts out 4800 to 5000 horsepower at the rail. The SD40/SD40-2 was rated at 3000 traction horsepower. Its electrical system was about 88% efficient, which resulted in an single SD40 having 2650 horsepower at the rail. The 3985 isn't even as powerful as 2 SD40s, and has far less starting tractive effort. Those are documented facts.
I love steam too, but why must all you people exaggerate so much?
@UnIonPacCheyenne You must know nothing about railroads... power is not measured by horse power its tractive effort a sd-40 has 11,000 pounds of tractive effort the challenger has 97,000.....
@steamingpoopfart From a farmers prospective I agree,the secret is how to utilize all that power without losing traction its my understanding one of the drawbacks of steam power it was to much tractive effort on a short stretch,diesel has the ability to stretch out the power and more effectively use it,also track maintenance is lower
@steamingpoopfart LOL on that. FACTS: The SD40-2 has 92,000 lbs. starting TE and 83,000 lbs. continuous TE @ 11 mph and 30,000 lbs @ 35 mph. The Challenger produces 97,000 lbs starting TE and 45,000 lbs. TE @ 35 mph. Two SD40-2 would produce 60,000 lbs TE @ 35mph, which is way more than the Challenger. A single AC6000 produces 200,000 lbs. starting TE and 62,000 lbs TE @ 35 mph. A single AC6000 would blow the Challenger away on this train. You can't hide from the FACTS people...
I read that if a steam engine can start a loaded train then it can get it rolling to speed, where as a diesel may start a load but may not get it to speed. Also a steam engine makes peak torque at any rpm. Is this true?
You all realize that this engine (oil burning) consumes much more petroleum products than three or four SD40's.
This is a deadhead run for 3985 where management felt it would be fun to send her back to Cheyenne with a stack train. Earn her keep for which she was designed to do. Fast freight.
Kool, really Kool
largespliff 1 week ago
Was 3985 still a coal burning locomotive when this was recorded, because it sure looks like it. And I heared that it was converted to oil burning.
Vorahk3985 1 week ago
@Vorahk3985 yeah she was converted only a very short time ago.
WatchdogDisciple 1 week ago
This is unreal long live steam
tkshelford 1 week ago
That's how you do work.
460handy 4 weeks ago
0:43 LIKE A BOSS
Kacsaszezon 1 month ago 3
SUUUUUUPERRRR GOOD VIDEO # 1 1OOX1OO GOOD, GRACIAS,!!
ricoisrael880 1 month ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne
Tell that the guy I reply to. He was say it would take 6 loco today to pull a mile train like this. Trust me, I know what it takes. I used to be an engineer and have pulled mile+ long trains before and stake trains just like this from KC to Clinton, IA.
pdlip1 1 month ago
boy look at her moving like that!, and just think, a modern diesel would have had a few other diesels strapped on, 3985 is true power, same for all steam engines
Barricade360 1 month ago
It is unclear what the steam locomotive is stronger. UP 3985 - Tractive Effort 97,350 lbf (433.03 kN) N & W 1218th Tractive Effort -114,000 lbf (507.10 kN) Big Boy Tractive Effort - 135,375 lbf (602.18 kN) N & W2156 Tractive Effort -166,000 lbf (738.4 kN) !!!!!!!!!
ikefemula 1 month ago 2
@ikefemula Those are just starting tractive ratings, which determines how much train a locomotive can start. It takes horsepower to get and maintain a train moving at speed. Of those you mentioned, the Big Boy produced the most power at speed, approx. 6000 to 6200 HP. The N&W Y's power curve fell dramatically above 20 mph. They could get a train moving, but not pull it very fast.
UnIonPacCheyenne 1 month ago
A C&O 2-6-6-6 could have done this with ease. C&O pulled fast freights across Ohio with them in the last years of steam. The Allegheny could easily reach speeds of 70 the flat.
criind 1 month ago
@criind Agree with you about the C&O 2-6-6-6. Their high speed horsepower output blows both the Challenger and the Class A away. The 2-6-6-6 can produce a good 1500 to 2000 HP more at the drawbar than either the Challenger or Class A
UnIonPacCheyenne 1 month ago
So cool...thanks for sharing!!!
MrAirman812 1 month ago
I love this .Compare this to the 4 locomotive unit next to her as a testiment to her raw power
kae4466 2 months ago
I WANT TO SEE MORE STEAM INTERMODALS LIKE THIS
skinnyshit8888 2 months ago
I don't know why but this video get me going in the morning!!!!
bigrezide 2 months ago
that's something you don't see every day
J3110M4N14 2 months ago
@drew199321 it is a challenger none of the big boys are operational
drivingdude2007 2 months ago
Comment removed
ikefemula 2 months ago
Well it looks better than diesel engines?
Challenger is a beautiful locomotive.
ikefemula 2 months ago 3
now i wonder what it would look like to see CN 6218 handle a intermodel of her own.
DigitalLonestarX4600 2 months ago
@drew199321 Nope. It shows clearly it's a Challenger with 4-6-6-4
princenoah21 3 months ago
The Union Pacific Railroad is bad ass and has balls to show off steam engine "The Challenger 3985" pulling a real freight train... an intermodel train over the hill solo! Santa Fe (BNSF) with the 3751 or the 4449 not going to happen, maybe the Daylight but it isn't a freight hauler... Long live UP steam!
tmartin27069 3 months ago
@tmartin27069 3751 pulled a 45 car intermodal by itself!
Jemalacane 2 months ago
two Alleghenys are not happy with the Challenger performance!!
aleu650 3 months ago
Damn. If the Challenger can do that, why do they need to restore the Big Boy?
princenoah21 3 months ago 3
@princenoah21 Because the Big Boy can pull a 5.5 mile long train at 40 mph
steamingpoopfart 3 months ago
@steamingpoopfart Oh lord. And I keep seeing 6 diesel locos (3 on both ends) only pulling a 1 mile long train. LONG LIVE THE STEAMERS
princenoah21 3 months ago 6
@princenoah21 6 locos on this train, I think not. The most it would need with modern engine (SD70ace or GEVO) for that say train would probably be 3. Stack trains don't have as much TPOB as most mixed.
pdlip1 1 month ago
@pdlip1 One ES44AC or SD70ace could pull this train up the little bump that Archer Hill is easily. The reason that you may see 3 ES44ACs on a stack train is because you need that much HP to pull it at 70 mph. It takes many times the HP to pull a train at 70 mph, than it does to pull the same train at 30 mph.
UnIonPacCheyenne 1 month ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne
ES44AC SD70? are more powerful tools, such as locomotive IORE
ikefemula 1 month ago 4
@ikefemula
Damn, IORE locomotive weighs 360 tons, has a power 10,800 kilowatts and Tractive Effort 1200 kN!! You're right, indeed a very powerful locomotive.
Regopstaan 1 month ago
@steamingpoopfart The Big Boy NEVER pulled a train 5.5 miles long. The longest train puled in the U.S. was in 1967 by the N&W as a test. It contained 500 cars, was 21,424 feet long (4 miles long) and needed 21,650 HP. The Big Boy produced 6,000 HP, so it simply would not have enough power to pull any thing that long by itself.
UnIonPacCheyenne 3 months ago
@princenoah21
Big Boy would have to change from coal to oil. But it would not be bad if a Big Boy again after years to life.
ikefemula 2 months ago 8
oh lord!! And this is something i do in MSTS!! NOW ITS REAL!!! Id love to see more steamers pullin Stacks n Piggy Backs!
6V92TA 3 months ago
1:07 Steam > Diesel
CFDChris237 3 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
She is impressive to watch on video or see in person. And she'll put many of todays diesel/electrics to shame. Long live 3985!
hd74xlhs 3 months ago
Belle mécanique, dommage qu'il n'y ai plus de Big Boy 4-8-8-4 en fonctionnement et dans un état équivalent à cette magnifique Challenger 4-6-6-4.
Bravo à toute l'équipe, attention de ne pas la casser, c'est la dernière des Monstres Légendaires du chemin de fer Américain...
JF
Locagites 3 months ago
Great video. Thumbs up! :)
megatwingo 4 months ago
I LIKE THESE OLD ENGINES. I HAVE ACTUALLY RIDDEN IN A SHAY ENGINE AND SHOVELED SOME COAL DOWN HER THROAT. SHE LIKES LOTS OF IT.
CON10NDOR 5 months ago
@CON10NDOR That's what she said.
BlAiRpAiNtBaLl 4 months ago
@BlAiRpAiNtBaLl YOU MUST BE 16 NOW AND ALL THE WAY UP IN 3RD GRADE. WOW YOU ARE A SCHOLAR. NERD
CON10NDOR 4 months ago
@CON10NDOR Seriously, calm down. Jesus christ. And btw, 16=11th grade. Get your shit straight.
BlAiRpAiNtBaLl 4 months ago
All in a day's ferry work for the crew of #3985 betwixt passenger-train appointments, and they make pulling 3,000+ tons of containerized goods look easy. This 4-6+6-4 Union Pacific/Alco Class CAC-4 single-expansion will probably meet a GE Centennial at her next excursion pull, as modern varnish has electrification beyond what her own steam-turbine generators will feed.
bcschmerker 5 months ago
Beautiful that is PRICELESS and she could still defeat countless locomotives
JcracksBitch 5 months ago
Historic!
OwlEye2010 5 months ago
я в ахуе
sukinusuki 5 months ago
Fantastic machines over in the US, I would love to come over there just to see them.
slick50848 5 months ago
i just want to say who ever had the awesome idea to take this restored locomotive on a real frieght run I hope lives the rest of his life of altiment awesomeness and wealth. Same with whomever filmed this.Thanks for posting.
electron2601 5 months ago
did it have a cobose
jayfine01 5 months ago
Yes, and you misspelled caboose.
09JDCTrainMan 5 months ago
That is very impressive, to see an iron steed pull that much modern freight! I like it!
mscwolf 5 months ago
Thats impressive.
jeric70 5 months ago
Challenger: Go at throttle-up.
Hawaiifive01 6 months ago
Play this, and Bei Mir Bist Du Schön (the Andrews Sisters) at the same time, and see how weirdly well they fit!
Mcoov 6 months ago
now that is a sight.
wish each railroad would have at least 2 operational steam locos, and run them on excursions and revenue freight. that would be awesome.
shogunballa14 6 months ago
I heart 3985.
IIIJFRIII 6 months ago
things got some torque
dmberrigan 6 months ago
well, thts the BEST way to wear in some new parts! and a great show for us fans as well!! and it had no helpers or dpu's!!!!!!!
gmsd70mac 6 months ago
He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack
Go sit beneath the tree by the railroad track
Oh, the engineers would see him sitting in the shade
Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made
mindeloman 6 months ago
WOW!!! well it's better to use Challenger than 3-4 diesels for his kind of train! 5 stars for the video!!!
Triplex5014 7 months ago 2
@Triplex5014 No, it's not better. A single modern unit like SD70ACe will smash by far the 4-6-6-4 in high tractive effort operations, even the Big Boy 4-8-8-4... SD70ACe 157,000 lbs continuous TE vs. the Big Boy Tractive effort 135,375 lbf. The Big Boy will only run a little faster than the diesel unit because its higher HP rating boiler. Take care ;)
irasthewarrior 6 months ago
@irasthewarrior than go and compare that to an N&W Y6b then come back and tell me your results. Take Care ;)
Strasburgfanatic 4 months ago
@Strasburgfanatic Thank you for the good info. I'm a big fan of both american diesel and steam engines. The N&W Y6b is quite a heavy loco judging from the wiki article. I'll look more into it when I'll have enough time. Take care :)
irasthewarrior 4 months ago
@Strasburgfanatic A Y6 could never match the performance of a Challenger at this speed. Y6 could produce more starting pull, but their firebox was too small to produce power at speed. Firebox sizes: 1. C&O 2-6-6-6, 762 sq.ft. 2. B&O 2-8-8-4, 756 sq.ft., 3. DM&IR 2-8-8-4, 750 sq.ft. 4. UP Big Boy, 704 sq.ft. 5. UP Challenger 602 sq.ft. 6. N&W A 587 sq.ft. 7. N&W Y6 430 sq.ft. The N&W engines had the smallest fireboxes of "Big Steam" and their power output was totally over-rated.
UnIonPacCheyenne 3 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne The Y6's on the N&W were not built for speed. They were built to haul 13-14,000 ton coal trains over the Blue Ridge mountains. They produced their maximum horsepower of about 5600hp at roughly 25mph. The Y6 could have pulled that train in this video and probably at about the same speed (35mph). The Class A's on the N&W (1218) could have done it also and at a higher speed.
Information from N&W Giant of Steam by Col. Lewis Ingles Jeffries.
criind 1 month ago
@criind I doubt the Y produced anywhere near 5600 HP in reality. Their boilers were too small at 106 sq.ft grate area and a firebox no bigger than the typical 4-8-2 Mountain type of locomotive. The N&W Historical Society ran a number of articles in "The Arrow", written by advanced degree Mechanical Engineers, that pretty much said that most of the info in railfan books about N&W steam is exaggerated to the point of being fantasy. Just because it is in a book, doesn't make it true.
UnIonPacCheyenne 1 month ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne As I said the Y6 was not built for speed. There was no need for a coal train to go 60mph. They usually went about 35 to 40 on the flat. Lets not forget that the grade up Blue Ridge on the N&W was 2.2 percent. The N&W would double a Class A and Y6 on the front and have another pushing on the rear with 150 55 ton coal hoppers.
A grade like Archer Hill that is only 0.7 percent foe eastbound traffic would not require as much horsepower or tractive effort to get a train over.
criind 1 month ago
Correction: The grade up Blue Ridge was 1.2 percent, not 2.2 percent.
criind 1 month ago
@LS6Z28 Remember fuel is expensive, and the railroads will pay good money for power, so lets kill two birds with one stone, someone needs the engine somewhere and the RR needs there freight somewhere as well.
dave1182a 7 months ago 2
Why is a steamer pulling a stack pack anyway?
LS6Z28 7 months ago
@LS6Z28
At the time, Challenger was out touring the rails on one of her steam excursions, so Union Pacific decided to have a little fun and let the old girl pull a freight train on one of her runs.
alladinmoua 7 months ago
@LS6Z28 American President Lines chartered her to promote their LA-NY intermodal service
Fordguy6514 2 months ago
If they could filter the smoke from steam locomotives then if so they should put every avaliable one back into service.Sure they take lots of attention but more men with a job and sure be exciting to watch freight being hauled again by steam just be heaven. Maybe clean coal or oil.3985 burns oil if i am not mistaken?
arkansastrash320 7 months ago
what year waas this video recorded
Barricade360 7 months ago
If you need a laugh, read the all comments below.
Floridaman98 7 months ago 2
You guys need to get the GP7's and GP9's out of your heads!! Sure, it would take a few of those to match the 3985 but ONE MODERN unit can do this! 0.5 percent?!?! Lol that is NOT a hill!!! I've run many trains on 2.6% grades
essartee76 7 months ago
amazing
quick question, Y did she have a mail car?
trainguy3 7 months ago
@trainguy3 Spare parts are hard to come by for steamers nowadays, so they bring along their own, along with a mechanic, in case she breaks down en route and blocks the line
Fordguy6514 2 months ago
Glorious, fuckin' glorious
554687858 8 months ago
The laws of economics ruled against steam. Sorry, foamers. They are beautiful machines and maybe you are right and one steam engine can do the work of 3 diesels, but its still cheaper to run the diesels. Railroads aren't stupid.
airborneace 8 months ago
@airborneace I don't think anyone is arguing this. I love steam engines as much as the next guy but I recognize that they're obsolete technology. They are not, however, obsolete because diesels are stronger. 3985 was 47 years old at the time of this video and doing the work she was built for just fine. If steam engine design had continued to advance, I guarantee you we'd have locomotives to rival modern diesels. They wouldn't be cost-effective, though, which is why they won't get built.
JimStarluck 8 months ago
that was awesome! guess thats what it would look like if diesel was never invented!
CAV3MAN227 8 months ago
Amazing that they are doing this without an angst locomotive!
uncinarynin 8 months ago
amazing
ilog0008 8 months ago
If this doesn't get your blood going, something wrong.
rtbzzz 8 months ago
Bless the UP. They know how to publicize.
rtbzzz 8 months ago
I didn't know UP still did this! Awesome to see a giant doing what it did 50 and 60 years ago!
Amtrak1194 8 months ago
I was wondering about the details of this event. I found out this much: On the morning of August 1, 1990 Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 Challenger 3985 slowly pulls out of the Cheyenne, Wyoming yard with the heaviest steam powered freight train since the 50’s. Its destination is North Platte, Nebraska. On the draw bar are 143 cars, 7657 tons and this colossal freight is 8900 feet long. What I'm STILL wondering is what is the ruling grade of Archer Hill?
cidispatcher 8 months ago
@cidispatcher Archer Hill is just east of downtown Cheyenne. It is approx. 1 mile in length. Grade ranges from 0.5% to 0.6%. The track only gains 35 feet in elevation. Like I have been saying, not much of a "hill". Great photo location to catch trains, especially at the "S" curve portion. Operationally, it is just a small uphill bump in the downhill (eastbound) direction.
UnIonPacCheyenne 8 months ago
Also, later that year: “During a dead-head move on September 18, 1990, UP dispatched 4-6-6-4 #3985 on Denver-North Platte manifest DENP-17, 16 loads and 56 empties. Work included stopping at several locations to do pick-ups and set-outs.” (Railfan & Railroad Dec 1990) PR or not, at least she gets to pull a real load now and then.
cc40003 9 months ago
Give poor old 3985 a break. Yea, she technically is not as capable as a modern diesel locomotive. But on this day: “On August 1, 1990, UP dispatched Challenger 4-6-6-4 #3985 on stack train LAAP-1 from Cheyenne to North Platte. Three diesels brought the train into Cheyenne, but 3985 took it the rest of the way unassisted. Train consisted of 143 loaded double stack cars, for 7657 tons. 3985 maintained track speeds of 65 mph for the majority of the trip, and crested Archer Hill at 35 mph.”
cc40003 9 months ago
Pound - for pound, the Dean goods 0-6-0 achieves about the same TE -
TheBeechingAxe 9 months ago
Wow great video.
N330AA 9 months ago
Sorry, Archer Hill is eastbound ascent, downhill wb. As for comparing dissimilar motive power, both horsepower curve & tractive effort curve are VERY different between steam & diesel! A late road foreman would definitely know the diesel data but not steam. And many "Berks" produced 4,500 drawbar hp in dynamometer tests. C60ACs are brutes for sure. But essartee76, if you're a locomotive engineer on the UP you would know that the C60s, while still around, are regarded as a limited success.
Va1or5torm 9 months ago
@Va1or5torm Let's try to get this straight once and for all. The UP main line's general direction is DOWNHILL eastbound and UPHILL westbound. The 3985 is taking that train downhill, with the exception of Archer Hill, which is a very short uphill "bump" going in the downhill direction. It is what is know as a "momentum hill", meaning a train's speed and mass will do most of the work getting the tonnage over the bump. It's the same principle that roller coasters use at an amusement park.
UnIonPacCheyenne 9 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne There are indeed "momentum grades". In this case however, the climb eastbound begins in Cheyenne. In fact, on the UP, it's an ascending grade starting in Cheyenne in all 3 directions. And altho the entire Great Plains are obviously eastbound descent, the 3985 is indeed climbing a grade.
Va1or5torm 9 months ago
@Va1or5torm Archer is very short and not steep at all. Stop trying to make it out to be more than the tiny bump that it is. Calling it a "hill" is a joke. Put the 3985 west of Cheyenne on Sherman Hill with this train and watch how fast it stalls and goes nowhere with its limited tractive effort.
UnIonPacCheyenne 9 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne The train is on an S curve and a .5% grade and with a 8900 foot long train behind you its going to have heck of an effect on the train. And I reckon that if 3985 was allowed to get enough of a run at sherman hill it might have a chance to make with modern roller bearing trucks, and 5-well double stack cars that doesn't have that much drag.
TheKGamer08 7 months ago
@TheKGamer08 Well, you reckon wrong because Sherman hill is both steeper and much longer than Archer. Any momentum the 3985 would have with a 7000 ton train would be quickly lost within the first 1/2 mile up Sherman westbound (Tracks 1&2 are a 1.55% for 20 miles; Tracks 3&4 are 0.82% for 45 miles) After the rolling momentum is lost, it becomes a pulling (tractive effort) contest, and the 3985 simply does not produce enough tractive effort to take that much tonnage up Sherman.
UnIonPacCheyenne 7 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne The speed wasn't really for momentum but to be able to reach the full hp of the locomotive, which is reached at about 40-50 mph that is the real reason the engine can out pull two or three diesels. being able to have power at speed is what allows steamers to do more with the momentum they have.
TheKGamer08 7 months ago
@TheKGamer08 Diesel-Electric locomotives produce their full rated HP over their ENTIRE speed range, not at a specific speed like a steamer. The 3985 can outpull 3 old GP9s simply because it produces more power at the rail than 3 old GP9s. It only produces slightly more HP at the rail than a ES44 at 50 mph, and a single AC6000 will out power the 3985 at any speed. I just can't understand why you people can't comprehend some basic facts on power output.
UnIonPacCheyenne 7 months ago
@Va1or5torm Well, one thing is for sure, UP derated their C60ACs from 6,250HP to 4,390HP. Not trying to get caught up in this, just saying...
Msts196 8 months ago
@UnionPacCheyenne I don't even know why we waste our time here. I'm a locomotive engineer and was a Road Foreman of Engines. We both know what we're talking about. Even Lima's "superpower" Berkshires only developed around 2700 horsepower! I had no idea there was so much ignorance out there
essartee76 9 months ago
Awesome how much power this locomotive has! guess it makes close to 5000 horses or more.
alfonsinho74 9 months ago
@originalwinja I know exactly what one C60AC will pull, especially on the flatlands here in this video. Facts are facts, but go ahead and live in your little dream world. A C60AC is the strongest engine ever produced, period. Lmao at your "between 4 and 6!! That would rip this train apart!! Due to powered axle restrictions only 2 C60AC units can be online due to their adhesion
essartee76 9 months ago
UnionPacCheyenne is absolutely correct. I LOVE steam but give credit where it is due. A C60AC will outpull ANY steamer
essartee76 10 months ago
@essartee76 well...between 4 and 6 of them will out do a single steam, but one for one you will never see a single C60AC pulling 143 cars. as we see in this video 3 diesel engines with empty rail cars passing in opposite direction of the single loaded challenger with no help.
origionalwinja 9 months ago
@origionalwinja Did you ever consider the train passing in the opposite direction is westbound, and westbound is the UPHILL direction on the UP main line? Of course its needs more power. Other than Archer Hill, which is a very short hill that trains can carry a lot of momentum up, the 3985 is going DOWNHILL eastbound. When heading westbound back to Cheyenne, the 3985 only manages 50 cars.
UnIonPacCheyenne 9 months ago
Lol at all the ignorant comments posted here! Yes, one ES44AH could easily do this but it wouldn't be such a spectacle! Great vid
essartee76 10 months ago
still a beast!
wccborn 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
that is faster than 35mph. At least 45mph
MrZkr123 10 months ago
that is faster than 35mph
MrZkr123 10 months ago
Um, here's the real question about this steam vs diesel debate... WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? Can't people just be happy to see an amazing piece of history still in action and hauling a modern day freight train? Who cares if a new diesel can do it, it doesn't matter. I'm just happy UP still does stuff like this. Why do people have to turn everything into some big argument? Enjoy it for what it is... Entertainment!
Defiant47 11 months ago 42
@Defiant47 I agree 100%. But really, the only ones arguing over whether steam or diesel is better are the 13-15 year old kids who don't know any better. Just best to roll your eyes, and ignore them.
dcoursey82 11 months ago 28
@dcoursey82 When was this footage taken? Looks beautiful, however it amazes me to see a steam locomotive in front of what seems to be a regular freight train. In Europe they don't do this anymore. :-(
Skoda130 8 months ago
@dcoursey82 Watch it buddy. Before you go stereotyping what age group thinks steam is better (I'm almost 15), I garuntee that people older then you and the same age as you argue the same thing.
PereMarquette1223 6 months ago
@Defiant47 funny thing is if Diesels were pulling this you would have at least two or three on the train at least and who cares nothing is better then hearing the steam whistle blow, the sound of the piston turning, sound of steam, the smell and raw power (pretty much everything) of a steam engine flying by!!! next to the air horn, humming and smell of a diesel!!! which is awesome in its own way, but growing up seeing both anyone would choice the Steam engine!!!
WorldOfNothin 11 months ago
@WorldOfNothin Don't forget one pushing too. I love both steam and diesel, and like I said, I'm just glad the UP still runs their steamers... AND makes them earn their keep when not on excursion or executive runs. What I was getting at is all the statistics people are throwing out comparing new diesels to old steamers, then fighting over it. It's moronic. Can't people just sit back and enjoy things anymore? Especially something as cool as the 3985 strutting her stuff in the modern world.
Defiant47 11 months ago
@Defiant47 Yeah Steam is rare now and I think the fact it is still alive in some parts of the Country is important and I agree with what your saying! I just wish steam would come back to my area, but N&S was stupid and ended the Steam program so I've seen very little steam in the past, well almost 20 years now, glad N&S start up a small Steam program again, but not seeing it here anytime soon! I was just think of how much I loved and miss the sound of Steam! A real shame to lose it, so enjoy it!
WorldOfNothin 11 months ago
@WorldOfNothin That's one of the coolest things about living in the Kansas City area. I've seen the 844, 3985, and 4449, and before the NS canceled their steam program I saw the 611 and 1218 come through. The 844 is due to come through here near the end of May on it's way to Little Rock, Arkansas, and last fall the 3985 was here. I hope too that some day the NS will bring back the 611 and 1218.
Defiant47 11 months ago
@Defiant47 Yeah I've seen the 611 and 1218 many times when I was younger have pictures of me in the cab and on the front of the 611!!! I've also seen the 4501 and even the 3985, but it was just passing through town on an extremely rare event lol first and only time I've seen a steam engine on CSX lines! would love to see the 844 and especially the 4449, but they, along with the 3985, rarely come across the Mississippi River, I would have to travel to St. Louis at least to see one!
WorldOfNothin 11 months ago
@Defiant47 The debate is extremely important. I'm sorry if you can't see why -
TheBeechingAxe 9 months ago
@Defiant47 I think the difference is - whether or not someone has the guts to make steam come back or not...you never know...it could be those same 13-15 year olds who come back 20 years from now and make steamers like the B&O 2-6-6-2 or the NYC J-3's an average consist on a track. It's not about debate..i dont think..i thinks its about what's efficient. But if those teens dont plan on doing anything about it then - well ya its stupid.
aperturemicah 6 months ago
@aperturemicah You want to know if teens nowadays will bring steam engines back? I'd restore a steamer myself if I could fix it up to run on the rails of America. Or build a replica of the PRR K4. Take that, Amtrak! There's only the cost of restoring one standing in my way of doing it.
Fireheart528 6 months ago
@Fireheart528 That factor of "COST" is the only thing standing in anyones day. A young man will have the upper hand - that he may and will be able to gain knowledge and know the ways of putting a mixture together of, Knowledge and technology...where as, the next question would be- where to find the young man/teen who 1. Has the guts 2. Has the DESIRE to do so.
aperturemicah 6 months ago
@aperturemicah And you spot on with that comment, bc I'd love nothing more than the chance to prove all the haters, doubters, and critics wrong who say "Steam is obsolete." The PRR K4 could easily show up Amtrak's P-40 diesels, and with current technology, could possibly out-perform the older K4's by a substantial degree. I have more knowledge of these giants than most teens, and I'll build the old thing myself if I have to! Americans don't give up, you know.
Fireheart528 6 months ago
@aperturemicah And there is no other person who can or will tell me "You can't build this." Darlington Locomotive Works built the A1 Peppercorn in 2008! No doubt much improved, and just as strong if not stronger. The K4 is the best choice, not only bc of the impressive performance, but bc it's a very fast engine as well, which is needed if its to run the main lines, as I fully intend on doing. A single K4 and a single P-40 of Amtrak--my money's on the K4. :)
Fireheart528 6 months ago
@Fireheart528 THIS IS AMERICA! We build our dreams. Nothing should stop you from building what you want. The Peppercorn - yup..if that cant be made then we cane make a K4. A K4 with some nice new railroading technology, and we could have a nice train running. Railroads need to upgrade - this stupid SD70MAC's and SD40-2's and P-40's that all the railroads are running are getting boring.
aperturemicah 6 months ago
ok... sooo, while everybody is dick measuring and fighting about "diesels this" steamers that", i got a question... is challenger still running??? i heard more from 844 than from 3985... simple question that any person could answer... WHERE IS 3985???
bluesguitardude 11 months ago
@bluesguitardude 3985 still runs like a top but i cant tell ya where she is.
WatchdogDisciple 11 months ago
@bluesguitardude The 3985 came through Kansas City a few months back. I work right next to the UP main and she was heading east. I've actually seen more of the 3985 than the 844. I'd have to look it up, but one of them is due to come back through this month.
Defiant47 11 months ago
Wow! Brute force,if they could just keep them beasts from tearing up the track so bad steam really is a good option except for the smoke!
simonspics1 11 months ago
Instead of having steam vs. diesel debates, let us unite against something that actually makes sense---supporting the railroads and bashing the trucking industry for taking away its market-share of the the freight. I mean come on, let's look at the big picture and join hands for once. The 3985 is a sick engine though :-)
fasionbug 11 months ago
just to put this one in the bag has anyone seen one diesel pull a 7600 ton train over archer hill at 35 mph
northersteame 11 months ago
@northersteame not hardly LOL!
simonspics1 11 months ago
@northersteame A single ES44AC would have no trouble matching this on Archer Hill. A single AC6000CW would blow the Challenger away.
UnIonPacCheyenne 11 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne so 400,000 pounds of tractive effort so that explains the test run of the 3985 in a tug of war battle when 2 ac6000s were both going notch 8 the othern way????
steamingpoopfart 11 months ago
@steamingpoopfart LOL on the "tug of war" . I'm disappointed that you were unable to *make up* something more creative than that...
UnIonPacCheyenne 11 months ago
Dont wana admit it eh ahhaha i win!!! =)
steamingpoopfart 11 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne I don't know if your brain can wrap around this but steam horse power and diesel horse power are not evenly matched. same goes for steam tractive effort diesel tractive effort that's because steam tractive effort is based off of the geometry between the piston and the wheel. diesel its based on the weight on drivers with the stalling force of the motor and the gear ratio. because of this the two cannot be directly related.
northersteame 7 months ago
@northersteame I don't know if YOUR brain can wrap around this but tractive effort is always defined as the pull a locomotive produces. It is defined the same way for any locomotive: steam, diesel-electric, or pure electric. Likewise, Horsepower has a standard definition. It is the equivalent of 550 ft-lbs per second. This definition is the same for all types of locomotives. I know this because I work with REAL locomotives on the railroad, not model trains like you do.
UnIonPacCheyenne 7 months ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne I don't work with model trains I don't even own one I work with real full size steam locomotives and diesel and I've seen steam locomotives with half the TE of a diesel pull the same. and hp is calculated by weight x ( velocity/ 234 ) ^ 3 which means because the maximum recommended rpm of a steam engine is 180 this means it has to have more force to get the same hp power of a diesel or an electric.
northersteame 7 months ago
@northersteame Doesn't matter how you try to spin it, equivalent power is equivalent power. The piston thrust will be higher on a steamer than the piston thrust on a diesel, but there are less pistons on a steamer, and like you said they run at a slower rpm. Thanks, for proving my point. Bottom line is 1 horsepower is 1 horsepower regardless of the method of how it is produced.
UnIonPacCheyenne 7 months ago
@northersteame "I don't work with model trains I don't even own one I work with real full size steam locomotives and diesel and I've seen steam locomotives with half the TE of a diesel pull the same."
I don't think you work with any trains, because if you did, you would know that starting TE and power at speed are not the same. A SD38 will have way more starting TE than a GP60, but the GP60 will pull way more train at 50mph than an SD38. What's your point?
UnIonPacCheyenne 7 months ago
who would dislike this?
GETOUTLTD 11 months ago
Less fuel efficient and much more maintenance intensive......but the old girl can still hold her own on the mainline. And a Big Boy has 40% more tractive effort, too......
TheMann2000 11 months ago
Great fucking catch.
ChachaChapati 11 months ago
This is indeed a very impressive sight.
I do wonder if a modern steam loco built with modern technology, burning coal in a "worked" form, would not be much more efficient as this machine, built with yesterday;s technology.
Also, do remember, diesel loco's were meant to be a stopgap for more modern electric loco's.
hans2406 11 months ago
HAHA 3985 makes diesels look ugly, boring, weak, and slow!!!
foroke1 11 months ago
Quite the contrast. You have to wonder, since the US is "the Saudi Arabia of coal", maybe we should go back to these awesome old machines! Of course it'll never happen but it's fun to think about it anyway! :)
flyurway 11 months ago
Haha oh wow! Did the steam program decide to do this for fun one day?
trooptpt80 11 months ago
@trooptpt80 This was a promotional trip for APL! I believe it ran from Cheyenne to North Platte! I think this was in the early to mid '90's The railfan press was all over it.
maddennis55 11 months ago
wow thats some power, is there any estimate on the total weight of this freight train??
powerblimse 11 months ago
and why is there diesels....apart from maintaining a steam loco, these old oily sheilas can still pull as hard as a diesel, no more fat engineers
TheRumskulla 11 months ago
Amazing, pulling with all the power other locomotive wishes it has .......
GottJukrapun 1 year ago
Wow, Is that the new Soundtraxx Heavy steam Decoder. Sounds and looks great!
Lmackattack 1 year ago
i bet the dash 9's was thinking FUCK ME THATS what i call power :D!!!!!!
mcrayzor1 1 year ago
are you stupid this locomotive is way more than 2 sd40s its equals like 5 sd40s
TheRush341 1 year ago
@TheRush341 5 SD40s? LOL. No way. The 3985 puts out 4800 to 5000 horsepower at the rail. The SD40/SD40-2 was rated at 3000 traction horsepower. Its electrical system was about 88% efficient, which resulted in an single SD40 having 2650 horsepower at the rail. The 3985 isn't even as powerful as 2 SD40s, and has far less starting tractive effort. Those are documented facts.
I love steam too, but why must all you people exaggerate so much?
UnIonPacCheyenne 1 year ago
@UnIonPacCheyenne You must know nothing about railroads... power is not measured by horse power its tractive effort a sd-40 has 11,000 pounds of tractive effort the challenger has 97,000.....
steamingpoopfart 11 months ago
@steamingpoopfart From a farmers prospective I agree,the secret is how to utilize all that power without losing traction its my understanding one of the drawbacks of steam power it was to much tractive effort on a short stretch,diesel has the ability to stretch out the power and more effectively use it,also track maintenance is lower
simonspics1 11 months ago
@steamingpoopfart LOL on that. FACTS: The SD40-2 has 92,000 lbs. starting TE and 83,000 lbs. continuous TE @ 11 mph and 30,000 lbs @ 35 mph. The Challenger produces 97,000 lbs starting TE and 45,000 lbs. TE @ 35 mph. Two SD40-2 would produce 60,000 lbs TE @ 35mph, which is way more than the Challenger. A single AC6000 produces 200,000 lbs. starting TE and 62,000 lbs TE @ 35 mph. A single AC6000 would blow the Challenger away on this train. You can't hide from the FACTS people...
UnIonPacCheyenne 11 months ago
the diesels are like "OK lets get to the scrapper" bring steam back
TheRush341 1 year ago
Przypomina mi się moje dzieciństwo mieszkałem obok parowozowni którą dowodził mój dziadek.Niema jak parowóz
st44001 1 year ago
I read that if a steam engine can start a loaded train then it can get it rolling to speed, where as a diesel may start a load but may not get it to speed. Also a steam engine makes peak torque at any rpm. Is this true?
ramblinmantoo 1 year ago
You all realize that this engine (oil burning) consumes much more petroleum products than three or four SD40's.
This is a deadhead run for 3985 where management felt it would be fun to send her back to Cheyenne with a stack train. Earn her keep for which she was designed to do. Fast freight.
Nacho66 1 year ago