Are you a biblical Space Cadet?

[HebaruSan]

The fixation on belief is a giveaway that it isn't real. Beliefs make you an insider or an outsider with respect to various social groupings. What you believe is very important--to other humans who want more followers and thus more power. A god already has all the power it needs; does religious doctrine about belief, belonging, and obedience reflect a divine perspective, or that of an earthly priestly class?

(Thanks for making all of these. 2008 was a good year for you. :)

[kalsolarUK]

@HebaruSan Beliefs arent necessarily not real...but they are always unproveable - otherwise they wouldnt be classed as beliefs - but I catch your drift. Thanks for the comment by the way! Hope to have some more stuff up very soon.

[retroforever]

"your like a total space cadet" - Moon Unit Zappa

[kalsolarUK]

@retroforever I am? Damn. In which case there is no hope for me!

[LClay7]

And what about this 'god' who kills babies and contradicts himself constantly? How and why would anyone want to worship him?

[LClay7]

This also means 'heaven' is full of these gullible people. Would you really want to surround yourself with this kind of people for eternity?

[Stadtjunky]

KalsolarUK, you need your own TV show, you are hilairious.

[kalsolarUK]

lol, thanks...it would certainly be a nice way boost my income!

[haeema]

You stated.."Plus - he has the testimony of EVERY other person he meets and knows to confirm the same things."

All born again Christians also confirm the same thing. You are one who just happens to be in the wrong place when your conformation could be used to also confirm.

[kalsolarUK]

Quote "All born again Christians also confirm the same thing."

Yeah...and all muslims confirm the same thing with EACH OTHER as do buddists, hindus, mormons, scientologists etc.

HOWEVER - a blind muslim accepts a chair is a chair the same way that a blind christian excepts a chair is a chair. Why? Because ALL the evidence (including sitting on the damn thing every day) tells them that its a friggin chair. BUT they DON'T agree on the evidence when it comes to faith. Get it now???

[haeema]

"Problem is...how do you know this?" .....I don't. That is why i only said PerHaps. And as for...""feeling" things are true is no evidence at all." I respond with.., Try telling that to a Blind man!

[kalsolarUK]

The Blind man analogy simply doesn't work. He has solid, provable and confirmable evidence to go by. Plus - he has the testimony of EVERY other person he meets and knows to confirm the same things. That isn't remotely the same as a person "feeling" something is so inwardly with actual independant evidence of a thing. This is the problem with believers...their way of thinking is foggy and rarely stands up to real scrutiny.

[haeema]

Every imperfect thing in this realm of time & infinity of Space, with its living mortal creatures, is duplicated exactly, (Item for Item,place for place) except there in the Spiritual plane only perfections of everything exist. How grand of a place it would be. Jesus is the only person or entity, that has the keys, with access to it. Only He can bring us to it, for only he knows the way!

[kalsolarUK]

Quote "Every imperfect thing in this realm of time & infinity of Space, with its living mortal creatures, is duplicated exactly, (Item for Item,place for place)"

Problem is...how do you know this? Let's face it - you've either read it or been told it. That doesn't make it true or not true. It's only true if its true.. not because someone got a pen and wrote it down or told it to you. And "feeling" things are true is no evidence at all.

[haeema]

Perhaps everything we see here in our physical plane of viewing everything mortal eyes & Telescopes can see, there is also a parallel co-existing identical plane exactly the same, but only in a spiritual existence.That only in Spirit it can be viewed. But its real, & Jesus has access to it.

[haeema]

Until modern Science & powerful telescopes showed us outer space, and its many star systems, Science says space goes on into infinity.Jesus was resurrected from death, and ascended to someplace, out there. Where? I wish I could know now. In time (after my physical death at least) I will know where the place is that he has gone to. So this in itself tells me there is Life out there. Because Jesus is LIFE!

[haeema]

I Know Jesus Christ is real. I know that because I feel his presence within me. He has gone to prepare a place for me. Where is that place? I don't know, I find myself wondering where, but never knowing where. But I know it is someplace, because I feel inside, that it is real. Is it one particular Galaxy? I do not know! Wish I could know now. But I can't!

[rubberbandmman]

hmmmm.... seems like your the gullible one lol....hope you get another chance

[cmoleon]

of two or three bad pictures in the media, repeated all over the world for days and weeks and months on end (and who really wants to hear that boring stuff - thermite, evidence of witnesses, lies of governments and media? just to say these things can happen to all of us. like goebbels said 'if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it'.) now that we've learned not to believe anything, will you kindly tell me what not to think... or what?!

[cmoleon]

makes you wonder... what irrevocable damage this might have done to the gullibility of those 'spaced out' credulous people? do you still hear many of them bragging a lot about their space adventures? also, this somehow reminds me how we haven't been hearing a lot about the moon landing and such in more recent decades. or e.g. about high-rise buildings even more lately, brought neatly down into their own footprints counter to all laws of physics, according to the overwhelming evidence...

[HappyApostate]

Hmm, so it's not MY fault that I won't get to heaven? I just didn't get the gullible "G" type mind? But then whose fault is that I got the "Q"-questioning mind instead? It's not like I asked for it, is it? If god decides who gets what type of mind then he's playing loaded dice with his creations. Obviously my mind and character, thus my fate, was already pre-ordained. Hey god, that's dirty pool! Not fair. Do over. All I can do is try harder to believe---(try try try) Bummer, that didn't work.

[amoxtlacatl]

You know, this is actually John Calvin's reading of the bible: god chooses who will go to heaven or hell not based on any merits, but only because he created some to go to heaven and others to go to hell.

Yahweh Inc. - making damned souls since 4000 b.C.

[amoxtlacatl]

Sorry - I got the company name wrong.

Since this is XTIAN theology, I guess it should read:

Yahweh and Son, Inc. - making damned souls since 4000 b.C.

[julzabro]

I've been making this same argument with a religionist under 1 of my videos. If belief or blindfaith is the criteria for eternal life WHY give us intellect, logic and reason?

[sockpuppetsfromhell]

Such is the nature of a cult and its followers.

[JohnLArmstrong]

It depends on what you think the motives of Yahweh are. If his objective is to weed out the sycophantic boot-licking slave souls who will praise him endlessly while never questioning him, the whole scheme makes sense. Presumably mass producing souls and running them through this test is a cheap process and those who don't make the cut are dumped in the incinerator.

I think I need to do a video on this topic.

[kalsolarUK]

now you mention it, from the point of view of Yahweh that would indeed be a great method of weeding out the sycophants. Of course an all knowing and all-wise god would know which souls would turn out the believe what before the experiment even began. Mind you, yahweh couldnt find adam and eve when they hid from him in the garden of eden...maybe his powers aint all what he claimed them to be. And yes..I'd like to see a video from you on this topic, you have a knack for getting to the nitty gritty

[JohnLArmstrong]

QUOTE: "maybe his powers aint all what he claimed them to be."

Of course not. As you point out, he plays hide and seek with Adam and Eve, so he can't be omniscient. And he can't defeat people with iron chariots so he can't be omnipotent. Perhaps like any dictator, he wants us to think he's always watching and can't be defeated.

[AntiCitizenX]

This reminds me of a similar argument I sometimes make. It is as if God wants us to believe in Him so badly that he will resort to the most outright of psychological exploitations, just for the sake of belief. But the moment you ask for something objective and observable, God is suddenly silent and doesn't want to "give it away." As a result, it only serves as evidence against the whole thing.

[poopnoodle3000]

Rain is all the gullible morons up in Heaven drooling on us! No, really! ;)

[kalsolarUK]

lol, nicely deduced!

[ParsonBaiter]

Kal:

"Blessed are those who believe but who have not seen."

The bible predicted your video so long ago. Surely that's proof of its power. Or its marketing department.

God hides himself almost as though he is omniscient and omnipotent. I mean, he's done one hell of a job hiding, hasn't he?

[kalsolarUK]

You're right...theres only one thing left for me to do..repent and be saved! lol.

[Darwinsgift]

Bravo! .. I always wonder what point of things like sex, food, drink and nice things would be in heaven without a body form and how boring it would be grovelling all day without these pleasures!

[Anon11674]

I've had thoughts along the exact same lines. If the abrahamic god exists, then the ideal human being is a gullible, willfully ignorant follower type.

[Paxmax]

LOL! great story.. ooh I'd like to see that show... OMD!

"an orangebox and daytime television programs..."

-NOOOO!!!! cast me to hell PLEASE!! I'll do an eternity TWICE, but please, not option one!!!!

Ah well, really what do I know about television programs... I only watch like 3-5 hours a week, exclusivly animal planet, discovery and national geographics.

Great vid kalsolarUK!!!

[bsirrell]

Folling up - i would totally agree that the whole God and Christian faith looks totaly Dumb bonkers and nuts to anyone that is not experienceing it! If everyone lived in a cardboard box, those that got out of the box would say "hey its amazing the sky is blue out there and the sun in so bright you have to wear sunglasses at times" everyone would say "so you gotta wear glasses to protect your eyes!... Hey how bonkers is that! ..stay in the box...i aint going out there thats just wrong!!"

[kalsolarUK]

I don't think the message of the faith as practiced by moderates is bonker but it does require the follower to ignore or reject many of the anomolies and absurdities that they are presented to them within the bible and in part because of it. Struggling to make sense of these is a huge task. The way I currently see it is that the best u can hope for is to believe the faith but say that the book is the flawed composition of man who was trying to get into the mind of god as best he could.

[GBot77]

What of all the anomalies of your worldview? The fact that evolution, true evolution, has never been observed. Perhaps I have assumed your worldview incorrectly. How do you account for existence, for logic? For truly logic does exist, yet it is only conceptual, it is also much more than just what we all might agree upon.

[kalsolarUK]

Evolution can not be directly observed - thats absurd as the process takes millions of years. We can however examine the evidence left behind and piece together what happened to get us to where we are. Evolution has its own anomolies and problems - but that does'nt remove the overwhelming evidence that it happened. Logic is in someways conceptual - there may be many different logical ways and methods of completing a rubiks cube - but all good methods lead to the same result.

[blackprince84]

You might consider breeding of animals to one purpose or other is a mini-example of evolution. If we can breed a pug from a wolf in just a few generations,you must except that species can change in response to outside pressures, such as habitat changes or climate change.

[GBot77]

That is not an example of evolution, that is an example of adaptation or change. The information for those different characteristics was already there in the genetic code. All dogs came from one dog predecesor, likely a wolf-like canine. Dog always breed more dogs, they follow after their kind. Since a chihuahua is very specialized, it has lost some potency from its genes, meaning that it can no longer breed its offspring back to a wolf-like creature. All that has been observed is a loss of data

[mib2259]

Actually evolution has been directly observed. We have observed populations changing their genetics in response to changes in their environment and we've observed speciation, both in the lab and in the field.

[GBot77]

I dont think what you have described has happened. What has been observed is the change and variation that is already possible within the gene pool's genome. What you descirbed is adaptation, not evolution. Evolution is the changing of one kind to another, like a dog into an elephant or something, not variation within a kind. Indeed, the variation you mentioned does occur, but the information to allow those adaptations was already there before.

[mib2259]

You're wrong. Speciation and changing allele frequencies have been observed - check the literature with google scholar if you doubt me. Additionally, your definition of evolution is not one I've ever seen in any biology text book. In fact your example, a dog changing into an elephant would disprove the theory of evolution if it happened.

But here's a question for you - what is your definition of "kind"?

[Danmill23]

Nice one K.

100% with you.

What does god want?

Christian - "he does not want robots. He wants free thinkers who choose him"

KsUK - "he wants the most easily lead"

[kalsolarUK]

thanks Dan, although most people got my point, I'm not sure everyone did strangely.

[agnosticman77]

This is a great point you make. The only thing I would say is that "repentance" needs to be there as well, but your points are still very valid.

[kalsolarUK]

yes, I agree "repentance" is also a factor here - but I knew this video was going to be tight on time so I kinda left that as that can virtually be another video all to itself.

[AzmodanKijur]

Excellent video, as usual. And a very good point to boot. No complaints from this atheist :)

[bsirrell]

Finally to add to that point. I live my life as i believe God is asking me to do so. If its wrong then God will ultimately decide that, or forgive me.

Even the lifestyle is wrong faultered or what ever, i know its taken me much further and challenged me far more and rewarded me more than my selfish, arogant, self obsessed non christian life ever did. (and trust me that life was not without adventure!)

[kalsolarUK]

I have no doubts that belief that there is purpose and that having god behind you etc is profoundly enriching. With those things I have no issue. What I'm addressing here specifically is that if the route to heaven (should such a place exist as per the bible) is much easier by default for those take on all kinds of beliefs much more readily .. then that is severely flawed and unfair thus cannot (in my view) be a system created by the ultimate power / intelligence of the universe. Its too dumb.

[bsirrell]

Matt 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. 1 Yes i get your point but God doesnt control this its up to us as you summarised. God gives us "Free Will" so its up to us to choose. Do we accept god or deny him. 2 "easily led" led by who Good or Bad? 3. on the good scale how are you judging this. Where is the limit of good? Is that up to us to decide?

[Hooya2]

"2 "easily led" led by who Good or Bad?"

Someone who is gullible is gullible to both good or evil people. Therefore, who they're led by is based on who feeds them a line of bs first.

"Is that up to us to decide?"

Why not? We've eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; we have as good an idea of what's good and evil as God does. Why shouldn't we have a vote?

[AThagoras]

The fact that the system for avoiding hell is stupid was one of the reasons I gave up on Christianity over 30 years ago as a teenager. It just didn't make sense that God could be that stupid.

[slipcurve]

Excellent point.

That's the kind of people god likes, the gullible and the indoctrinated.

[kalsolarUK]

indeed..based on the bibical system its just too damn easy to get into Heaven if you're the kind of person who takes on beliefs too readily.

[spookysaurus]

Wow! I'm a little breathless after this one, kalsolarUK. Compelling and thought-provoking, so it's a star for each time you said 'dumb' consecutively. lol. Do the math, everyone, the answer's in the video. I recently got some stick on a thread for saying that religion demands a certain threshold of ignorance. Surely ignorance and gullibility are horns on the same goat? (to coin a phrase that's probably current in the farther-flung provinces of Kasakhstan)

[kalsolarUK]

Yes, I would say ignorance plays a large part in making the easily led into being that much more gullible. In the space cadets show they relied greatly on the fact that the chosen ones knew little to nothing about space and space travel and at the same time were eager and willing to believe that which fed their need for thrills and adventure.

[JustOneEarth]

This is definitely the most serious video I've seen you make, it really struck me for that reason. I'll be refering some of my theist friends to this vid. :)

Good job and keep it up.

[kalsolarUK]

Yes, I felt this one needed to have a more serious tone over all and knowing that I had to fit the whole thing in 10 minutes led me to focus on the message behind the video more so. I'm glad I did for this one as it came out better than I thought.

[justintempler]

Space Cadets sounds like a fun show.

I found it on a british torrent site

theboxDOTbz

Great place to find old BBC 2,BBC 4, BBC Horizon shows.

Looks like I'll have to add it to my download queue. :-)

[kalsolarUK]

cool, I'll have to check out that site now! Thanks for that!

[bradley364]

If there's a god, lets hope hes not the christian one, hes a fucking dick, and has some serious problems. The bible's a cock of shit, and its sickening that anyone believes, or would WANT to believe in the shit.

[Jacnas]

Haha! Nice stuff with those "space cadets". I guess I would drop out the moment some mofo tried to convince me why I would feel the gravity on spaceship.

The reason astronauts don't feel gravity when they're in orbit around the earth is because they're in a perpetual state of freefall, not because they're too far away from the earth. Most space stations and spacecraft orbit at an altitude of only a few 100s of kms above the planet.

[darkhyena]

I remember that show. Among the criteria was simply "not being able to name more than three star trek characters".

I can't believe they actually believed Minsk was named after a bloody monkey.

[samsroomie]

Brilliant.

[CadicusTheDamned]

I NEED TO SEE THAT SHOW!!!

I read the Wiki article and it sounds hilarious.

BTW: Christianity is so ridiculous that I never believed even as a little kid. I wasn't ever big on Santa Claus either, and he at least brought presents.

[joeyoap]

I never watched the show (I don't really watch any) but I remember hearing about it and thinking "bollox,nobody is that stupid" but after a few months watching some of the dumbass motherfuckers on youtube I take it all back.

[philhellenes]

I was in the US for a month while that show was on. When I got back and saw the newspaper stories I kicked myself (gently).

Con-men are going to clean up in Heaven. ;)

[twelve121]

WHAT THE HELL

[SaintCog]

I need to find out about this show!! Recent?BBC? Great video, welll spoken. BTW 41?...really?... 41 ...? Put what ever you eating/drinking/breathing in a bottle and open a shop on the high street.

[kalsolarUK]

it was shown on channel 4 in 2005. Billed as the biggest (and most expensive) hoax in tv history. The phoney ship they used appeared in the movie armaggedon I think and was modified for this show. As for the bottling what I eat/drink etc.. I've simply attached a soft focus lens to the webcam to go with my soft focus brain. Or is it just a bit blurred? lol.

[hethuszar01]

Spot on,Kal. Brilliantly put, as always. I'm not an Englishman, so I also thank you for introducing the Space Cadet show. It must have been hilarious. And the connection between religion and gullable people is so true.

Cheers,

Zsolt

[kalsolarUK]

thanks for that..it was fascinating to watch -and the fact that the whole show could have come to an end at any moment (it was broadcast over 10 nights) made it kind of edgy to watch. If they had sussed out that it was nonsense the show would have been over in an instant.

[ChrisJMoor]

Oddly enough, I was having a related conversation with a Christian friend today and he told me, words to the effect: 'God wanted people to read and understand the whole bible and not to be led by other peoples' selective readings of it' (clergy). I think he would (weakly) agree with your argument, but then he also believes in the 144000 saved from revelations, presumably the number of Christians in history that were not gullible about their faith AND were also in the 90% good Christians mark;)

[philos4r]

well put great stuff

[Eldxale]

I think that it was better that they had not gone to Russia.

[wynjones1]

I remember seeing that show it was so funny :)

[ScottishAtheist]

I missed that series when it was on TV; I wish I'd watched it now lol.

[ChilapaOfTheAmazons]

Maybe it's like the selection process for the military in most countries: it's entirely deliberate, they aren't looking for bright, decent people.

[kalsolarUK]

interesting thought that..you might well be right.

[thatgaybloke]

Gullibility and the ability to hold logically inconsistent and conflicting viewpoints without question appear to be key traits for belief in the Abrahamic religions.

[BadYahweh]

Great video, and wrong, you were funny in this video too.

[ogami72]

Well,I think a god as flawed as the one in the bible would want to surround himself with a bunch schmucks.Just like a CEO who surrounds himself with a bunch of "yes men",that way he can feel that everything he does is right.

[Saukko31]

Great video. I would say that it is also immoral. In that system you are judged by your faith, not what did you do.

[kalsolarUK]

quite true. There a so many things against that system its mind boggling that people still buy into the idea that an intelligent being created it.

[qwertyuiop726]

From your description, I'm not sure the people on that show were unusually gullible. If I knew absolutely nothing about physics, and someone from, say, NASA informed me that the smartest scientists in the world had invented a "gravity generator," I might just have to take his word for it. Is that gullibility, or is it a reasonable trust in someone else's expertise?

At any rate, your point is well-taken. Good video :)

[SuperiorSavior]

I failed to watch that show :( It sounds like the best (not hard) reality show ever. Remember that God decided which people would be gullible and which would be skeptical :p

Best not to be agnostic about christianity, K?

[saxmanchiro]

How did they find so many fake Russians with bad accents as cast for the show? I would think that was a monumental task.

Did they figure out any correlation between gullibility and other indicators afterwards? It would be a wonderful chance to see the correlation, if any.

5*s Thanks for the great story.

[kalsolarUK]

It was interesting to watch how they worked out who would be the most gullible and suggestable. One of the tests was looking at ink blots I believe and saying what they saw. Those that could see things where there were none would be marked as more suggestive etc.

[otakursed]

Judged by deeds or belief . . . that whole idiom about the thought that counts is where people go wrong, because it often follows the other cliche about good intentions. Except the infernal parkway that undergoes construction happens to be HERE, else the phrase would never have been created.

[lazymornings]

so the more stupid,the easier to lead,so because of being stupid, you go to heaven, it's true,unlike religions!

[DeletedDelusion]

Careful, gullible doesn't necessarily mean stupid. Plus everybody can be tricked in one or the other way.

[kalsolarUK]

true, stupid and gullible are quite separate things..although there is a cross-over point between the two I would assume...at the far, far end of gullible, stupid probably takes over.

[andytoz]

I think ignorant is a better way to describe gullible people, rather than stupid (but yes, I'm sure stupid takes over somewhere!). Anyone in that situation who had knowledge of how space flight works would've been onto them, but you could be a fairly dense person and still have enough general knowledge to recognize the flaws in what was happening.

It's through ignorance that people can think scientists are the morons for suggesting we're monkeys, or that complexity of the eye proves god exists

[lazymornings]

they is stages in evolution that show the eye coming into being,even a you-tube vid......how can people watch it and then claim the scientist are liars to prove themselfs right,don't some scientists believe in god...........yea,I know your,was enjoying that typing rant!

[lazymornings]

Everybody by be got at,is true,I learnt this when I came to the city (up to this,I'd lived in a pineapple at the bottom of the sea)but that never made me gullible,though stupid......perhaps alittle!!

[notsodeadlydave]

haha good vid! made me laugh at 5.07 - "noooo" - very Izzard.

good serious points too. I admire your persistence in flogging a dead horse for the amusement of fellow rational thinkers. (hope you don't take that the wrong way, but I don't think believers will be swayed by logic) keep up the good work :)

[WineisyourFriend]

Excellent observation...and funny story. Reminds me of a show they did a few years ago in the US that was a parody of American Idol. They selected the worst possible singers..who thought they were really good. The audience was in on it, and the whole thing was a huge cruel prank. Funny as hell, though. Do you think that indicates that bad singers are also more likely to get in to heaven? hmmm. I dig your work, Kal. Keep it comin.

[kalsolarUK]

bad singers in heaven? Only if they allow bad harpists too. lol.

[lazymornings]

great point and so true,not just for fun on t.v., but for wealth and greed of those that control through false belief systems like the bible.People are so willing and needy to follow,a part of me thinks,OMG,but then if that makes em happy,bless em!!oh,I hope i avn't offended anyone, it doesn't pay to upset stupid people afterall!!

[GOAQ]

I remember that program. One of the best ever in my opinion. I remember they had to worship the Russian monkey everyday too. And the cadet that was a plant faked a space worm up his arse. lol.

Very good comparison drawn to the gulligious (i'm coining that phrase now).

[kalsolarUK]

Yes I agree..it was certainly more original and intriguing to watch than most reality shows. In fact, much more valid as a reality show than most. The psychological element to it was fascinating, although I think they could have done more with it in some ways.

[GOAQ]

Yes i agree. I would prefer if they had tested "intelligence" rather than well known ignorance. But, i guess in this instance of a show concept it would literally cost more. Still i have, er..."faith" in the broadcasters.

[bbugmenott]

great video