Everyone in the Lutheran church should get out of that Bible denying mess and get in an old fashioned Bible preaching and practicing, King Bible only ,baptist church where the pastor fears God more than the people and will preach hard against sin and long about forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. You may have to move to find such a church but there are some out there. God please forgive our nation. ( warnings of wrath . com )
@bfrance2002 I don't know any gay people who would wear a flowery shirt. That would be tacky. But a loud shirt with classic cars? Oh yeah. Especially the leatherdaddy, bear types.
@bfrance2002 and i hate to tell you this...but the bible isnt exactly what it was when it was created, it has been translated and remade to much times to be relevent...and even if the bible is correct about homosexuality then what about shell fish? now shell fish can be eaten because our government sorts out the ones that carry diseases...and homosexuals can have children...so if you are going to say eating shell fish is fine then you should say homosexuality is too...
@smartandstupid37 - I hate to tell you that the we have over 1000 manuscripts from 2000 yeas and older that match almost exactly. In fact, the bible has more old manuscripts of it than any other book. We have the new testament manuscripts written in the original Greek to check against. There is an exact word for word translation from the original Greek called the amplified Bible. So many bibles have gone back to original 2000 year old transcripts. But King James is accurate.
@smartandstupid37 The only 'differences' in translation have been punctuational. Like using a '.' in stead of a '?'. None of the 'differences' change the meaning. Now it does say that homosexuality is a sin. But it also said that idolatry is a sin. So is gluttony and just about everything we as humans do. WE ALL SIN.. Including me. Sin separates us from God because he is holy. That is why we needed a savior, Jesus. Some think flowered shirts are a sin. ;-)
@smartandstupid37 - One last thing on shell fish. Paul said that we are made dirty by what comes out of our hart, not by what goes into our mouth. Pork too... But,I love pork, shrimp and lobster.. but I can no longer eat it even though it is FDA clean... I lately have found out I have gout. pork, shellfish and chocolate are bad for gout. So Some of us cant eat it. Maybe God was trying to help us so we did not get gout. It is REAL painful.
@bfrance2002 but the bible says its a sin to just have their carcass in front of you...And i am so sorry for your gout =( my grandfather's friend had it and he could barely walk =(
@Epc100 - Everyone deserves respect. (If they give it.) I wish all people could discuss things rationally with respect. The problem happens when some people can't support their beliefs, they brake down into name calling, at which time the discussion becomes emotional and leaves logic behind, and is worthless.
The Lord, in all His wisdom, shows us every day that He approves of homosexuality, by continuing to create, love, & keep His homosexual children right here on earth, as part of His divine plan for mankind. There's no more "sin" involved in being gay than there is in being left-handed or black; diversity is part of the Lord's plan, and when the words of the men who wrote the Bible contradict His will, as they obviously do about the gay issue, isn't it better to side with God & accept gay people?
Bfrance2002, I believe that God's will is evident in His creations, and He rules supreme, so if what its human authors wrote in the Bible contradicts the Lord's clear will, then I would side with Him over scripture. So, no, I cannot say I believe in the Bible, its various editions, interpretations, and translations, more than I believe that God knows what He's doing, and that the Father knows best.
@GodCreatesGays2 - I asked a simple question. Do you believe the Bible? Your answer is obviously no, but you won't state it. Let me tell you what I think. You know the bible is true so you don't want to say that is is false. But you want to do what you want to do and not do what God wants you to do, so you think if you straddle the fence, you don't have to fallow a righteous God. You want to listen to people who tell you what your 'itching ears want to hear'. 2nd timothy 4:3
B2002, you should never try to "think" for other people, or superimpose your own rash, erroneous judgments on them, just because you don't like, or don't have an answer for, the reply they gave you. GCG2 answered you. She believes in God over the men who wrote the Bible because the Lord is not capable of making mistakes. How curious that you say her putting Him before man is NOT doing what God wants her to do! It's not straddling the fence, it's moving directly to God's side. Bravo, GCG2!
@MattFrame - First off you and others posted on my page. I did not force anything on you. 2nd my views on this are not 'erroneous' they are based on the Bible which the Lutheran clergy presume to teach on.
How do you know 'God's side'? Without a standard, like the Bible, there is no telling what is true. I make no illusions that I believe in the Bible.
@MattFrame - I do not hate you. I do not judge you. I just am saying what the Bible said, which the Lutheran clergy pretend to teach. Your life style is between God and you. I would just want to know what God really thinks not what people think. I am a sinner too.
If I truly believe what the Bible said about God, and I do, that homosexuality is a sin, and I hate homosexuals, I would keep my mouth shut and let them go to hell. Because I care, I want to say something to save people.
@GodCreatesGays2 - Where do you get your knowledge of God? If it is not the Bible, where? You make things up that you want to believe. You say it is from the fact that he creates more gay people? I don't agree. The Bible said it is a choice. Is the same God that you say 'approves of homosexuality' the same God that destroy about 50,000 people in saddam gamora? What about the same God who wiped out all but 6 humans in the grate flood because of sin? God does not change. Just Man..
@GodCreatesGays2 - I do not hate you. I do not judge you. I just am saying what the Bible said, which the Lutheran clergy pretend to teach. Your life style is between God and you. I would just want to know what God really thinks not what people think. I am a sinner too.
If I truly believe what the Bible said about God, and I do, that homosexuality is a sin, and I hate homosexuals, I would keep my mouth shut and let them go to hell. Because I care, I want to say something to save people.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
But as you don't believe in the Bible, you don't have to worry about that. I believe the bible, so I want to fallow the ways of God, not man that 'leads to death'.
I pray to God that he opens your eyes and gives you discernment.
God have mercy on us with "ministers" who rationalize homosexuality! Yes we all sin, but a genuine Christian will grieve over their sins. They don't wallow in them when they are specifically forbidden in God's Word. I am reminded of the verse, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil" Isiah 5:20. God says it is not natural and that it is abomination. Too sick that "ministers" please others and not God.
They will see someday when they bow before Almighty God!! I don't really consider "ministers", who don't preach what thus saith the Lord, as a true minister. I call them wolves in sheep's clothing.
Amen and Amen. And a true Christian will be able to see that they are phony boloney. " For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" II Timothy 4:3. Kinda sums it up huh major? They crucified Jesus for teaching the truth, and these "ministers" are just charlatans afraid of the truth themselves. One day they will meet God and all his Holiness and it will be too late.
@rhinestonenana I read a news story about the Presbyterian church yesterday and they were going for gay marriage and gay clergy,the problem is that that church at one time preached the true gospel but now they have slide into this,Jesus died on the cross for our sins,He said ,"AS IT WAS FROM THE BEGINNING MARRIAGE IS TO BE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN"
so if they want to do there thing please leave marriage out of it!
Right! I know I don't have any quarrels with them as a person, just the life style they CHOOSE. I also know that God loves them as much as he loves anyone, but he looks on homosexuality as a sin just like our sins. I believe they know deep inside it is wrong, but they just sear their conscious day by day until they don't care and they don't have the right ministers to give the truth. YOU Ministers will answer for not preaching the truth of God's Word!!
@rhinestonenana Yes well if we had true sermons and true teaching instead of doctrines of men an devils,then perhaps we would have real positive changes in peoples lives,but the gospel has been perverted by again doctrines of devils
This video is right on ,by the way concerning gay marriage ,the words of Jesus,"as it was from the beginning marriage is to be between a man and woman."
@jumponit125 - Oh really? Well my theology is based on the truth of the Holy Bible. What is your theology based on, What people want? Luk 16:15 I care what God wants and he told us through the bible what he wants us to do and what he wants us not to do. In the bible it states both in the old and new testament that homosexuality is a sin. Rom 1:21-27, lev 20:13
So do you ignore those verses? At what point do you choose to ignore or to believe? A partial truth is still a lie.
@jumponit125 - I care these people learn the truth, that it is a sin, so they can go to heaven, and not go to hell where there is eternal torment.
I am a sinner and need to be told of my sins to repent. How can you repent of a sin that everyone is telling you is not a sin. You can't and then you go to hell. I pray to God that people don't go to hell.
@jumponit125 - If you had a friend on Meth and they were killing themselves, but believe they were free and having fun, what would you do? Would you tell them that they were going to die or keep your mouth shut because you did not want to offend them and or they would probably lash out and hurt you? If I truly cared about that friend, I would have to say something.
@bfrance2002 see, you're playing the classic "straw man" move here... logical fallacies galore. your theology doesn't actually address the issue of homosexual clergy. nowhere in the bible are we charged with judging and excluding; nowhere in the bible are we called to play God.
and for the record, doing meth and being born gay are two different things. try not to confuse the two, good sir.
@jumponit125 - Malachi 3:18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.
I am not judging anyone. People righteousness is between them and God. But as you see we are supposed to 'discern' who to fallow and who to not. So if someone does not have truth we are not to fallow them. Hence not fallow a gay person whether they are 'ordained' or not.
And no, the bible does not say people are born gay. It is a choice. read
@jumponit125 - both being gay and doing meth will destroy you. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death." I would want to know what sin is that would send me to hell. "but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
@bfrance2002 furthermore, the scripture you've pointed to not only doesn't actually address homosexuality, but it's also taken out of context. come on, man... let's not justify what we don't like with ill-fitting snippets from the bible...
@jumponit125 - so pointing people at 6 verses in a row and telling them to read it for themselves is " taken out of context"? How is pointing people to the bible being a "straw man"?
You talk about the bible, but don't seem to quote anything. Have you read the bible, ever?
So you believe the bible, but don't know what it has in it.
Because you don't know the Bible you and many others make up what you want as the truth.
I encourage you to read the whole bible, not just the parts you want to.
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
The bible talks about men preferring other men as a sin. rom 1:27 A sinning clergy?
I pray to god for you to open your eyes to the bible. Please read the bible for yourself and don't trust others telling you what is in the bible including me.
I work in the church. I'm a minister. I have read the bible. More than once.
Regarding the book of Romans, it is not a book to quote a single passage and pass off as sweeping ideology. It is meant to be looked at as a "Christian Theology 101" to a sophisticated audience. In the context of the passage you suggested (Rom 1:27), Paul is speaking to the sin of all mankind. You, me, everybody. The point is this: we're all sinners. We all mess up. That's why Romans 2:1-5 is so important.
@MrPeacePreacher - I know that you are @jumponit125. I also know you work in the Lutheran church. I saw your page. I answered your questions, but you refuse to answer my questions. You have read the whole bible? Then I ask again, how do you read, Rom 1:27 "In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion"?
@MrPeacePreacher - You can't read that and believe it and still believe that homosexuality is a not a sin. Yes Paul is speaking on man's sin of which he specifically brings up homosexuality which IS A SIN! "Men committed indecent acts with other men" I am a sinner too. you are a sinner. We all are sinners, but if we do not agree with what God has ordained to be a sin, we are lost because we can not be repentant of our sin, which is a requirement of being saved.
@MrPeacePreacher - You say you have read the bible. Do you believe it? No I don't think you do. If you believed the bible fully, you could not believe that homosexuality is not a sin. You use terms like "Christian Theology 101" and "ill-fitting snippets" to ignore the parts of the bible you don't like. Again I ask you where do you stop believing parts of the bible. It becomes a subjective thing. What ever you don't like you call it a snippet or ill-fitting. You just don't believe the Bible.
@MrPeacePreacher - I am not saying I am better than a gay person. I am not saying I am better than you. I am saying all of us are sinners compared to God. It is God who decides what is sin, not me. It is God who we all answer to about our sin which we must repent of to be saved. So it is God's definition of sin that we all have to be concerned with, and not mine or yours. So how do we know? God's word, the Bible, is the standard we will be judged by God, not by me or by you.
@titusmountjoy - Oh, I don't think Lutherans will ban divorce because they are not listening to what Jesus said at all. (Some Lutherans not all)
I think divorce has hurt many children in our country because people are to selfish and prideful to work together to fix a marriage and instead go out and adultery themselves with someone else. What good has that done our society? Broken homes. Broken family's. Screwed up kids..
The only appropriate response for true followers of Jesus Christ is to just leave this heretic church which has embraced satanic doctrines. Revelations 18:4 tells us about the command from heaven to God's people with regards Babylon, the dwelling place of demons..." And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues." For this reason, all true believers of Jesus Christ should leave the Evangelical Lutherans.
The christian community should realize that this development where the Evangelical Lutherans finally accepts the homosexual lifestyle, did not just happen one fine day. It started many decades earlier when satanists and evil men conspired on how to bring down bible believing christians and their churches. They simply had to infiltrate their seminaries, become pastors and eventually the church leadership to effect this blasphemous change in church doctrines. Nothing surprising about it.
The ELCA have voted to become followers of SATAN. All ELCA members who actually believe in GOD should go and join the LCMS or WELS churches, I now belong to the LCMS and my heart and soul are at ease. Dont stay behind in the ELCA they voted out GOD, his word and Laws and you the believer.
It's sad that people are allowing society (the world) to infultrate biblical doctrine. But then again, it's written that the world would get this way. I appreciate you not being a lukewarm Christian.
I will. I will also pray for the soles of the ELCA and for God to show them his truth so that there soles will not be lost. Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the light" So non-truth is not of Jesus or God.
The best way to treat churches like this to just leave and never support them. They are not going to change. I've seen churches in this stage disolved, some closed down, and all of those branches lost members, etc.
I think I should tell you that some people of the Episcpal church, the Methodists, and (believe it or not) the Lutherans leave those organizations and joined other ones who don't tolerate homosexuality. I just thought I should tell you that.
Evangelicals Lutherans were the first evangelicals. The world 'evangelical' comes from the Greek word for Gospel... Which Martin Luther translated into the vernacular language. That was to set themselves apart from Catholics who, at the time, did not allow the Bible to be studied by common people and did not allow it to be translated into any language but Latin. In a way, Lutherans were sort of trend setters.
I agree with the history. but I think that the Lutherans as others like Episcopal have stopped reading the Bible like they should have. So the thing that set them apart at first, now is discouraged.
I respectfully disagree. The reading of the inspired word of God is much more the description Martin Luther's evangelism. The Bible as 'literal and inerrant' in our modern vernacular is quite modern.
After reading I understand what you are saying. To clarify: Yes the bible as it is written in the Greek and Hebrew is 'literal and inerrant' because it was inspired by God. Some translations are word for word translation. Others are conceptual. That is ok as long as the translator tried to not deviate from the true meaning. That is why I like going to the amplified bible if there is a question because it is a word for word translation. (At least until I least Hebrew and or Greek..)
Another person tried to tell me that the new testament did not say anything against being Gay. Again, people don't read, they state things others say. First off the old testament points to Jesus and does not get replaced by the new.
Jesus said about the law/old testament:
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Now in Paul's letter to the romans in the new testament:
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Now you can not believe the bible, but you can't say it does not say being Gay is a sin.
Rom 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Rom 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
This is crazy and ridiculous. How can they allow this to happen? They are not treating their church homes as churches. They have now turned them into circus shows!! I don't know if you know this but some branches have already left the ELCA.
I agree with you that something here is crazy and ridiculous, but it's not the gay clergy - it's the ludicrous notion that somehow it's wrong to ordain them. This seems an extraordinary step, and I applaud the Lutheran church for it - we as Christians need to rid ourselves of the cultural (that's cultural, NOT Biblical) stigmas surrounding homosexuality.
nakkidandrew- "NOT Biblical"???? What bible are you reading?
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
I Think it is time you read the bible so you will know what is biblical and what is not.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Now you can not believe the bible, but you can't say it does not say being Gay is a sin.
this same book also states that it is ok to own slaves, have more than one wife, sale your daughters, and many other things we would consider ungodly by todays standards. im not bashing your beleifs please dont be mistaken. but the jesus i know in my heart i dont beleive would wont us to shut the door on any of his children. i beleive the reason these things are so hard for people listen too is because we as christians have forgotton compassion and traded it in for hatefullness
The bible said to be subservient to your master if you were a slave, because we are all subservient to to God and as a witness to your master. Having slaves was a reality of that day. The bible was not saying it is OK to have salves. It also said to love your neighbor as your self. Would you enslave your self? If you loved others, then you would not enslave them.
"the jesus i know in my heart i dont beleive would wont us to shut the door on any of his children."
I am not shutting the door on his children, and I do think we should be kind to people. But we should not change the truth. And the truth is that you have to repent of your sins to be a 'child of God' I think that person that does not tell someone that they are sinning so that they can't repent of that sin and go to heaven, is not love, but selfishness and fear. Fear is not of God.
Ok, question.. If you had a friend on Meth and they were killing themselves, but believe they were free and having fun, what would you do? Would you tell them that they were going to die or keep your mouth shut because you did not want to offend them and or they would probably lash out and hurt you?
It is the same thing. I care these people learn the truth, that it is a sin, so they can go to heaven, and not go to hell where there is eternal torment.
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
nekkidandrew- If you have your faith in people, and what they say, and not what God said, here is what the bible has to say about that.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Hay, but good luck telling God you are being biblical, even though you obviously have not read the bible.
When these ppl are in hell & they are wishing to God that they could go back in time to change what they did to get in there, that is the only time they will be sorry for their actions. As of now, they are thumbing their noses at God & the Bible.
It ain't a democracy in heaven. God is the ruler, truth, final word. Katrina Foster states that her baptism is valid because these people have voted for it. Her faith is in people, not God. God is the only one that matters as far as his opinion on your being saved or not.
(That includes my opinion.) I would earnestly seek God and find out.
Who do these people worship as Lord? God or themselves. It is easy to get a bunch of people together and vote for what they want, but to fallow God, you have to look at his word and fallow him. Then he is your lord. Otherwise you are your own lord.
Katrina Foster said that Man has the final voice in this matter. NO, God has the final voice. If he said it was good, then it was good. If he said it was bad, it was bad. It is our human arrogances that deceives us in believing that we can judge what God has said as bad as incorrect. The last thing I want to have to do is stand in front of the Creator of the universe on judgment day saying, 'But we all voted on this". Do you actually think God will care that you all voted for sin?
I support love! God would too, Im emberassed some truly believe any kind of love is wrong even if its between 2 people of the same gender or by people whom you dont understand. I cant wait till the Catholic church gets right with god and shows their acceptance and love for those whom happen to be different (Gay Lesbian Bi) Best of wishes to you all
It is interesting when people use the word love for what is actually lust. And sometimes perverted lust. Look at Robert John Bardo who said he 'loved' actress Rebecca Schaeffer, just before he killed her. Was that a good 'love'??
excellent points bfrance. i really enjoyed watching that. it is good to see passionate Christians on youtube. For all the "tolerance" that these people teach, they aren't very tolerant of Christian viewpoints and truths.
You think I hate Gays. That is not true. I do not want them or anyone else to go to hell because some paster who is more worried about church attendance and will not tell the the truth. How till they read :
Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
You say that it is God's grace to accept people who refuse to accept that they are sinning as saved.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Without repenting a person can not finds God's grace and be saved, including me. If you keep telling Gays they are no sinning, then how can they repent and be saved.
Now are you saying I am a 'Glutton'? I will agree I eat to much, but I live at 10,000 feet in Colorado, and I challenge you to a foot race up the mountain. I walk every day, and still don't loose weight. But I am not saying I don't sin, or that I am perfect. That is why I need a savior. I looked at your page. You quote some Christian sources. You quote some eastern sources. You seem not sure who to look to.
crimthann86- Like most people who want to make the bible say what they want, you have taken it out of context.
Proverbs 23:2 - When dining with a ruler, pay attention to what is put before you. If you are a big eater, put a knife to your throat, and don't desire all the delicacies--deception may be involved.Don't weary yourself trying to get rich. Why waste your time?For riches can disappear as though they had the wings of a bird!
Well, I partially agree with you. I am baptist. But I do agree that they are embracing perversion for money in their churches. If the Baptist do this, I will no longer be baptist. Manly I am Christian and believe in Jesus the son of Mary as our savior. If these denominations keep changing what truth is about sin, no one will think they are a sinner and so no one will think they need a savior. But they will.
They are practicing usury which was banned by the Catholic church their church are shrinking and the only way many can keep afloat is buy embracing perversion. We know this will fail Lutherans Episcopalians and the Church of England only hope for survival is to Apologize and ask the Pope to call for a massive Inquisition the only thing that can stop the decline of the western world.
Gay people are not evil, christians need to mind their own business. I'm gay and i'm not going to hell for who I love. GET OVER IT.
smurfboywv 3 weeks ago
That shirt is absolutely faaaabulous!
bunnycatch3r 7 months ago
Everyone in the Lutheran church should get out of that Bible denying mess and get in an old fashioned Bible preaching and practicing, King Bible only ,baptist church where the pastor fears God more than the people and will preach hard against sin and long about forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. You may have to move to find such a church but there are some out there. God please forgive our nation. ( warnings of wrath . com )
warningsofwrath 1 year ago
I dunno' dude, that shirt is pretty gay.
CoryTheRaven 1 year ago
@CoryTheRaven - No. if it were gay, it would be pristine and no wrinkles and pretty.. It would have flowers not cars on it.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@bfrance2002 I don't know any gay people who would wear a flowery shirt. That would be tacky. But a loud shirt with classic cars? Oh yeah. Especially the leatherdaddy, bear types.
CoryTheRaven 1 year ago
@bfrance2002 so...gay is better than straight? because no wrinkles and pretty sounds alot better than wrinkley and ugly =P
smartandstupid37 1 year ago
@smartandstupid37 - Ugly is a relive term. As you age... that will change no matter if you are gay or strait.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@bfrance2002 and i hate to tell you this...but the bible isnt exactly what it was when it was created, it has been translated and remade to much times to be relevent...and even if the bible is correct about homosexuality then what about shell fish? now shell fish can be eaten because our government sorts out the ones that carry diseases...and homosexuals can have children...so if you are going to say eating shell fish is fine then you should say homosexuality is too...
smartandstupid37 1 year ago
@smartandstupid37 - I hate to tell you that the we have over 1000 manuscripts from 2000 yeas and older that match almost exactly. In fact, the bible has more old manuscripts of it than any other book. We have the new testament manuscripts written in the original Greek to check against. There is an exact word for word translation from the original Greek called the amplified Bible. So many bibles have gone back to original 2000 year old transcripts. But King James is accurate.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@smartandstupid37 The only 'differences' in translation have been punctuational. Like using a '.' in stead of a '?'. None of the 'differences' change the meaning. Now it does say that homosexuality is a sin. But it also said that idolatry is a sin. So is gluttony and just about everything we as humans do. WE ALL SIN.. Including me. Sin separates us from God because he is holy. That is why we needed a savior, Jesus. Some think flowered shirts are a sin. ;-)
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@smartandstupid37 - One last thing on shell fish. Paul said that we are made dirty by what comes out of our hart, not by what goes into our mouth. Pork too... But,I love pork, shrimp and lobster.. but I can no longer eat it even though it is FDA clean... I lately have found out I have gout. pork, shellfish and chocolate are bad for gout. So Some of us cant eat it. Maybe God was trying to help us so we did not get gout. It is REAL painful.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@bfrance2002 but the bible says its a sin to just have their carcass in front of you...And i am so sorry for your gout =( my grandfather's friend had it and he could barely walk =(
smartandstupid37 1 year ago
@CoryTheRaven
Damn! You are so right. This shirt looks like it just stepped out of the gay funeral scene in the movie "The Broken Hearts Club."
RCSVirginia 8 months ago
@Epc100 - Everyone deserves respect. (If they give it.) I wish all people could discuss things rationally with respect. The problem happens when some people can't support their beliefs, they brake down into name calling, at which time the discussion becomes emotional and leaves logic behind, and is worthless.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
The Lord, in all His wisdom, shows us every day that He approves of homosexuality, by continuing to create, love, & keep His homosexual children right here on earth, as part of His divine plan for mankind. There's no more "sin" involved in being gay than there is in being left-handed or black; diversity is part of the Lord's plan, and when the words of the men who wrote the Bible contradict His will, as they obviously do about the gay issue, isn't it better to side with God & accept gay people?
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 - Do you believe in the bible? I have asked that several times to other people who refuse to answer it. So I ask you strait out:
Do you believe the Bible?
bfrance2002 1 year ago
Bfrance2002, I believe that God's will is evident in His creations, and He rules supreme, so if what its human authors wrote in the Bible contradicts the Lord's clear will, then I would side with Him over scripture. So, no, I cannot say I believe in the Bible, its various editions, interpretations, and translations, more than I believe that God knows what He's doing, and that the Father knows best.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
Good points, GodCreatesGays2. Trusting God is always the answer.
MattFrame 1 year ago
@MattFrame - I agree you need to trust God. But you don't trust God by no fallowing him and what he said, then doing what he has said not to.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 - I asked a simple question. Do you believe the Bible? Your answer is obviously no, but you won't state it. Let me tell you what I think. You know the bible is true so you don't want to say that is is false. But you want to do what you want to do and not do what God wants you to do, so you think if you straddle the fence, you don't have to fallow a righteous God. You want to listen to people who tell you what your 'itching ears want to hear'. 2nd timothy 4:3
bfrance2002 1 year ago
B2002, you should never try to "think" for other people, or superimpose your own rash, erroneous judgments on them, just because you don't like, or don't have an answer for, the reply they gave you. GCG2 answered you. She believes in God over the men who wrote the Bible because the Lord is not capable of making mistakes. How curious that you say her putting Him before man is NOT doing what God wants her to do! It's not straddling the fence, it's moving directly to God's side. Bravo, GCG2!
MattFrame 1 year ago
@MattFrame - First off you and others posted on my page. I did not force anything on you. 2nd my views on this are not 'erroneous' they are based on the Bible which the Lutheran clergy presume to teach on.
How do you know 'God's side'? Without a standard, like the Bible, there is no telling what is true. I make no illusions that I believe in the Bible.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@MattFrame - I do not hate you. I do not judge you. I just am saying what the Bible said, which the Lutheran clergy pretend to teach. Your life style is between God and you. I would just want to know what God really thinks not what people think. I am a sinner too.
If I truly believe what the Bible said about God, and I do, that homosexuality is a sin, and I hate homosexuals, I would keep my mouth shut and let them go to hell. Because I care, I want to say something to save people.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 - Where do you get your knowledge of God? If it is not the Bible, where? You make things up that you want to believe. You say it is from the fact that he creates more gay people? I don't agree. The Bible said it is a choice. Is the same God that you say 'approves of homosexuality' the same God that destroy about 50,000 people in saddam gamora? What about the same God who wiped out all but 6 humans in the grate flood because of sin? God does not change. Just Man..
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 - I do not hate you. I do not judge you. I just am saying what the Bible said, which the Lutheran clergy pretend to teach. Your life style is between God and you. I would just want to know what God really thinks not what people think. I am a sinner too.
If I truly believe what the Bible said about God, and I do, that homosexuality is a sin, and I hate homosexuals, I would keep my mouth shut and let them go to hell. Because I care, I want to say something to save people.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 - one last thing.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
But as you don't believe in the Bible, you don't have to worry about that. I believe the bible, so I want to fallow the ways of God, not man that 'leads to death'.
I pray to God that he opens your eyes and gives you discernment.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
God have mercy on us with "ministers" who rationalize homosexuality! Yes we all sin, but a genuine Christian will grieve over their sins. They don't wallow in them when they are specifically forbidden in God's Word. I am reminded of the verse, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil" Isiah 5:20. God says it is not natural and that it is abomination. Too sick that "ministers" please others and not God.
rhinestonenana 1 year ago
@rhinestonenana I like what you said ,what people want won't matter its GOD's word that will matter
majorl31 1 year ago
@majorl31
They will see someday when they bow before Almighty God!! I don't really consider "ministers", who don't preach what thus saith the Lord, as a true minister. I call them wolves in sheep's clothing.
rhinestonenana 1 year ago
@rhinestonenana No a true Shepard will tell his flock the truth and nothing but the truth
majorl31 1 year ago
@majorl31
Amen and Amen. And a true Christian will be able to see that they are phony boloney. " For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" II Timothy 4:3. Kinda sums it up huh major? They crucified Jesus for teaching the truth, and these "ministers" are just charlatans afraid of the truth themselves. One day they will meet God and all his Holiness and it will be too late.
rhinestonenana 1 year ago
@rhinestonenana I read a news story about the Presbyterian church yesterday and they were going for gay marriage and gay clergy,the problem is that that church at one time preached the true gospel but now they have slide into this,Jesus died on the cross for our sins,He said ,"AS IT WAS FROM THE BEGINNING MARRIAGE IS TO BE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN"
so if they want to do there thing please leave marriage out of it!
majorl31 1 year ago
@majorl31
Right! I know I don't have any quarrels with them as a person, just the life style they CHOOSE. I also know that God loves them as much as he loves anyone, but he looks on homosexuality as a sin just like our sins. I believe they know deep inside it is wrong, but they just sear their conscious day by day until they don't care and they don't have the right ministers to give the truth. YOU Ministers will answer for not preaching the truth of God's Word!!
rhinestonenana 1 year ago
@rhinestonenana Yes well if we had true sermons and true teaching instead of doctrines of men an devils,then perhaps we would have real positive changes in peoples lives,but the gospel has been perverted by again doctrines of devils
majorl31 1 year ago
@rhinestonenana - amen.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
This video is right on ,by the way concerning gay marriage ,the words of Jesus,"as it was from the beginning marriage is to be between a man and woman."
majorl31 1 year ago
Your theology is shallow and made-up, at best.
jumponit125 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - Oh really? Well my theology is based on the truth of the Holy Bible. What is your theology based on, What people want? Luk 16:15 I care what God wants and he told us through the bible what he wants us to do and what he wants us not to do. In the bible it states both in the old and new testament that homosexuality is a sin. Rom 1:21-27, lev 20:13
So do you ignore those verses? At what point do you choose to ignore or to believe? A partial truth is still a lie.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - I care these people learn the truth, that it is a sin, so they can go to heaven, and not go to hell where there is eternal torment.
I am a sinner and need to be told of my sins to repent. How can you repent of a sin that everyone is telling you is not a sin. You can't and then you go to hell. I pray to God that people don't go to hell.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - If you had a friend on Meth and they were killing themselves, but believe they were free and having fun, what would you do? Would you tell them that they were going to die or keep your mouth shut because you did not want to offend them and or they would probably lash out and hurt you? If I truly cared about that friend, I would have to say something.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - hay, but don't believe me, read the Bible for yourself..
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@bfrance2002 see, you're playing the classic "straw man" move here... logical fallacies galore. your theology doesn't actually address the issue of homosexual clergy. nowhere in the bible are we charged with judging and excluding; nowhere in the bible are we called to play God.
and for the record, doing meth and being born gay are two different things. try not to confuse the two, good sir.
jumponit125 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - Malachi 3:18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.
I am not judging anyone. People righteousness is between them and God. But as you see we are supposed to 'discern' who to fallow and who to not. So if someone does not have truth we are not to fallow them. Hence not fallow a gay person whether they are 'ordained' or not.
And no, the bible does not say people are born gay. It is a choice. read
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - both being gay and doing meth will destroy you. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death." I would want to know what sin is that would send me to hell. "but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@bfrance2002 furthermore, the scripture you've pointed to not only doesn't actually address homosexuality, but it's also taken out of context. come on, man... let's not justify what we don't like with ill-fitting snippets from the bible...
jumponit125 1 year ago
@jumponit125 - so pointing people at 6 verses in a row and telling them to read it for themselves is " taken out of context"? How is pointing people to the bible being a "straw man"?
You talk about the bible, but don't seem to quote anything. Have you read the bible, ever?
So you believe the bible, but don't know what it has in it.
Because you don't know the Bible you and many others make up what you want as the truth.
I encourage you to read the whole bible, not just the parts you want to.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@jumponit125 -
2 thimothy 4:2
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
The bible talks about men preferring other men as a sin. rom 1:27 A sinning clergy?
I pray to god for you to open your eyes to the bible. Please read the bible for yourself and don't trust others telling you what is in the bible including me.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
I work in the church. I'm a minister. I have read the bible. More than once.
Regarding the book of Romans, it is not a book to quote a single passage and pass off as sweeping ideology. It is meant to be looked at as a "Christian Theology 101" to a sophisticated audience. In the context of the passage you suggested (Rom 1:27), Paul is speaking to the sin of all mankind. You, me, everybody. The point is this: we're all sinners. We all mess up. That's why Romans 2:1-5 is so important.
MrPeacePreacher 1 year ago
@MrPeacePreacher - I know that you are @jumponit125. I also know you work in the Lutheran church. I saw your page. I answered your questions, but you refuse to answer my questions. You have read the whole bible? Then I ask again, how do you read, Rom 1:27 "In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion"?
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@MrPeacePreacher - You can't read that and believe it and still believe that homosexuality is a not a sin. Yes Paul is speaking on man's sin of which he specifically brings up homosexuality which IS A SIN! "Men committed indecent acts with other men" I am a sinner too. you are a sinner. We all are sinners, but if we do not agree with what God has ordained to be a sin, we are lost because we can not be repentant of our sin, which is a requirement of being saved.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@MrPeacePreacher - You say you have read the bible. Do you believe it? No I don't think you do. If you believed the bible fully, you could not believe that homosexuality is not a sin. You use terms like "Christian Theology 101" and "ill-fitting snippets" to ignore the parts of the bible you don't like. Again I ask you where do you stop believing parts of the bible. It becomes a subjective thing. What ever you don't like you call it a snippet or ill-fitting. You just don't believe the Bible.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@MrPeacePreacher - I am not saying I am better than a gay person. I am not saying I am better than you. I am saying all of us are sinners compared to God. It is God who decides what is sin, not me. It is God who we all answer to about our sin which we must repent of to be saved. So it is God's definition of sin that we all have to be concerned with, and not mine or yours. So how do we know? God's word, the Bible, is the standard we will be judged by God, not by me or by you.
bfrance2002 1 year ago
@MrPeacePreacher Do you think homosexuality is a sin?
bfrance2002 1 year ago
Maybe Lutherans might ban divorce. Jesus did.
titusmountjoy 1 year ago
@titusmountjoy - Oh, I don't think Lutherans will ban divorce because they are not listening to what Jesus said at all. (Some Lutherans not all)
I think divorce has hurt many children in our country because people are to selfish and prideful to work together to fix a marriage and instead go out and adultery themselves with someone else. What good has that done our society? Broken homes. Broken family's. Screwed up kids..
bfrance2002 1 year ago
Amen brother!
sethbauer1 2 years ago
The only appropriate response for true followers of Jesus Christ is to just leave this heretic church which has embraced satanic doctrines. Revelations 18:4 tells us about the command from heaven to God's people with regards Babylon, the dwelling place of demons..." And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues." For this reason, all true believers of Jesus Christ should leave the Evangelical Lutherans.
opsvideo2008 2 years ago
I agree with you.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
The christian community should realize that this development where the Evangelical Lutherans finally accepts the homosexual lifestyle, did not just happen one fine day. It started many decades earlier when satanists and evil men conspired on how to bring down bible believing christians and their churches. They simply had to infiltrate their seminaries, become pastors and eventually the church leadership to effect this blasphemous change in church doctrines. Nothing surprising about it.
opsvideo2008 2 years ago
I agree with this too.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
The ELCA have voted to become followers of SATAN. All ELCA members who actually believe in GOD should go and join the LCMS or WELS churches, I now belong to the LCMS and my heart and soul are at ease. Dont stay behind in the ELCA they voted out GOD, his word and Laws and you the believer.
nytmstr 2 years ago
I would have to agree with that. and that goes true for any church who does the same thing.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
It's sad that people are allowing society (the world) to infultrate biblical doctrine. But then again, it's written that the world would get this way. I appreciate you not being a lukewarm Christian.
coreyaustin1 2 years ago
I agree..
Rev 3:14
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
So, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
I will. I will also pray for the soles of the ELCA and for God to show them his truth so that there soles will not be lost. Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the light" So non-truth is not of Jesus or God.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
The best way to treat churches like this to just leave and never support them. They are not going to change. I've seen churches in this stage disolved, some closed down, and all of those branches lost members, etc.
I think I should tell you that some people of the Episcpal church, the Methodists, and (believe it or not) the Lutherans leave those organizations and joined other ones who don't tolerate homosexuality. I just thought I should tell you that.
healthnbeauty1 2 years ago
I agree. God will not bless a church that does not fallow him.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Evangelicals Lutherans were the first evangelicals. The world 'evangelical' comes from the Greek word for Gospel... Which Martin Luther translated into the vernacular language. That was to set themselves apart from Catholics who, at the time, did not allow the Bible to be studied by common people and did not allow it to be translated into any language but Latin. In a way, Lutherans were sort of trend setters.
biry0501 2 years ago
I agree with the history. but I think that the Lutherans as others like Episcopal have stopped reading the Bible like they should have. So the thing that set them apart at first, now is discouraged.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
I respectfully disagree. The reading of the inspired word of God is much more the description Martin Luther's evangelism. The Bible as 'literal and inerrant' in our modern vernacular is quite modern.
biry0501 2 years ago
After reading I understand what you are saying. To clarify: Yes the bible as it is written in the Greek and Hebrew is 'literal and inerrant' because it was inspired by God. Some translations are word for word translation. Others are conceptual. That is ok as long as the translator tried to not deviate from the true meaning. That is why I like going to the amplified bible if there is a question because it is a word for word translation. (At least until I least Hebrew and or Greek..)
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Another person tried to tell me that the new testament did not say anything against being Gay. Again, people don't read, they state things others say. First off the old testament points to Jesus and does not get replaced by the new.
Jesus said about the law/old testament:
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Now in Paul's letter to the romans in the new testament:
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.
Rom 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Now you can not believe the bible, but you can't say it does not say being Gay is a sin.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Lutherans take note:
Rom 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Rom 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
This is crazy and ridiculous. How can they allow this to happen? They are not treating their church homes as churches. They have now turned them into circus shows!! I don't know if you know this but some branches have already left the ELCA.
healthnbeauty1 2 years ago
Yes, I am glad to hear that. It shows some still know the truth. Same as some episcopal churches.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
I agree with you that something here is crazy and ridiculous, but it's not the gay clergy - it's the ludicrous notion that somehow it's wrong to ordain them. This seems an extraordinary step, and I applaud the Lutheran church for it - we as Christians need to rid ourselves of the cultural (that's cultural, NOT Biblical) stigmas surrounding homosexuality.
nekkidandrew 2 years ago
nakkidandrew- "NOT Biblical"???? What bible are you reading?
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
I Think it is time you read the bible so you will know what is biblical and what is not.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Now you can not believe the bible, but you can't say it does not say being Gay is a sin.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
this same book also states that it is ok to own slaves, have more than one wife, sale your daughters, and many other things we would consider ungodly by todays standards. im not bashing your beleifs please dont be mistaken. but the jesus i know in my heart i dont beleive would wont us to shut the door on any of his children. i beleive the reason these things are so hard for people listen too is because we as christians have forgotton compassion and traded it in for hatefullness
rokee1979 2 years ago
The bible said to be subservient to your master if you were a slave, because we are all subservient to to God and as a witness to your master. Having slaves was a reality of that day. The bible was not saying it is OK to have salves. It also said to love your neighbor as your self. Would you enslave your self? If you loved others, then you would not enslave them.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Again in that day, it was common to have more than one wife, but not desirable as a christian.
1Ti 3:12 A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
"the jesus i know in my heart i dont beleive would wont us to shut the door on any of his children."
I am not shutting the door on his children, and I do think we should be kind to people. But we should not change the truth. And the truth is that you have to repent of your sins to be a 'child of God' I think that person that does not tell someone that they are sinning so that they can't repent of that sin and go to heaven, is not love, but selfishness and fear. Fear is not of God.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Ok, question.. If you had a friend on Meth and they were killing themselves, but believe they were free and having fun, what would you do? Would you tell them that they were going to die or keep your mouth shut because you did not want to offend them and or they would probably lash out and hurt you?
It is the same thing. I care these people learn the truth, that it is a sin, so they can go to heaven, and not go to hell where there is eternal torment.
Jesus said it: Luke 16:24
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
nekkidandrew- If you have your faith in people, and what they say, and not what God said, here is what the bible has to say about that.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Hay, but good luck telling God you are being biblical, even though you obviously have not read the bible.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Amen brother!!! Preach what the BIBLE says!!!
healthnbeauty1 2 years ago
When these ppl are in hell & they are wishing to God that they could go back in time to change what they did to get in there, that is the only time they will be sorry for their actions. As of now, they are thumbing their noses at God & the Bible.
crystalsky84 2 years ago
yes, but I keep praying for God to melt their hard hart so they don't go there.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
It ain't a democracy in heaven. God is the ruler, truth, final word. Katrina Foster states that her baptism is valid because these people have voted for it. Her faith is in people, not God. God is the only one that matters as far as his opinion on your being saved or not.
(That includes my opinion.) I would earnestly seek God and find out.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Who do these people worship as Lord? God or themselves. It is easy to get a bunch of people together and vote for what they want, but to fallow God, you have to look at his word and fallow him. Then he is your lord. Otherwise you are your own lord.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Katrina Foster said that Man has the final voice in this matter. NO, God has the final voice. If he said it was good, then it was good. If he said it was bad, it was bad. It is our human arrogances that deceives us in believing that we can judge what God has said as bad as incorrect. The last thing I want to have to do is stand in front of the Creator of the universe on judgment day saying, 'But we all voted on this". Do you actually think God will care that you all voted for sin?
bfrance2002 2 years ago
I support love! God would too, Im emberassed some truly believe any kind of love is wrong even if its between 2 people of the same gender or by people whom you dont understand. I cant wait till the Catholic church gets right with god and shows their acceptance and love for those whom happen to be different (Gay Lesbian Bi) Best of wishes to you all
JoeyBoya 2 years ago
So did the men of Sodom. And lets see if god supported them...
Gen 19:5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Gen 19:13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."
Gen 19:24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah--from the Lord out of the heavens.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
It is interesting when people use the word love for what is actually lust. And sometimes perverted lust. Look at Robert John Bardo who said he 'loved' actress Rebecca Schaeffer, just before he killed her. Was that a good 'love'??
bfrance2002 2 years ago
excellent points bfrance. i really enjoyed watching that. it is good to see passionate Christians on youtube. For all the "tolerance" that these people teach, they aren't very tolerant of Christian viewpoints and truths.
YourFriendTommy 2 years ago
Yep. The most intolerant people I have run into are liberals. They get mad if you don't agree with them.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
One last thought:
Now there are many sins. Any time you or I or anyone do not do what God wants, that is a sin, and deserving death.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
That is why we need a savior. Jesus Christ.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
You think I hate Gays. That is not true. I do not want them or anyone else to go to hell because some paster who is more worried about church attendance and will not tell the the truth. How till they read :
Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
You say that it is God's grace to accept people who refuse to accept that they are sinning as saved.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Without repenting a person can not finds God's grace and be saved, including me. If you keep telling Gays they are no sinning, then how can they repent and be saved.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Now are you saying I am a 'Glutton'? I will agree I eat to much, but I live at 10,000 feet in Colorado, and I challenge you to a foot race up the mountain. I walk every day, and still don't loose weight. But I am not saying I don't sin, or that I am perfect. That is why I need a savior. I looked at your page. You quote some Christian sources. You quote some eastern sources. You seem not sure who to look to.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
crimthann86- Like most people who want to make the bible say what they want, you have taken it out of context.
Proverbs 23:2 - When dining with a ruler, pay attention to what is put before you. If you are a big eater, put a knife to your throat, and don't desire all the delicacies--deception may be involved.Don't weary yourself trying to get rich. Why waste your time?For riches can disappear as though they had the wings of a bird!
It is saying do not be deceived by riches.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
Well, I partially agree with you. I am baptist. But I do agree that they are embracing perversion for money in their churches. If the Baptist do this, I will no longer be baptist. Manly I am Christian and believe in Jesus the son of Mary as our savior. If these denominations keep changing what truth is about sin, no one will think they are a sinner and so no one will think they need a savior. But they will.
bfrance2002 2 years ago
They are practicing usury which was banned by the Catholic church their church are shrinking and the only way many can keep afloat is buy embracing perversion. We know this will fail Lutherans Episcopalians and the Church of England only hope for survival is to Apologize and ask the Pope to call for a massive Inquisition the only thing that can stop the decline of the western world.
FordPintoRed 2 years ago