Yes, and by them women and children were targeted.
It is not very flattering for it is a war crime and due to the GARGANTUAN scale of attack against the civilian population, it was also a crime against humanity.
I am not any "voice of Nazism". I have always pointed out that the Nazi government was evil. I define the Nazi government as totalitarian, criminal, evil & c.
I have done that enough times. Thus my conscience is pure.
LordGodOfMercy instead doesn't have any pure conscience, or has no conscience at all.
We are thus wirth a poster of reptilian sense of morality.
LordGodOfMercy = "TheMrBlockTheHood", "yellowbellyfinns", "OurBomberHarris" & c.
@malcstag I know wochenschau was very embellished propaganda but was a fair reflection of how Germans viewed themselves and the world..."
Look all this glib Allied propaganda, RAF propaganda for example. There is for example one called "Dresden bombed to atoms". It is disgusting, like the Nazi propaganda or the Soviet propaganda.
You, as an individual picture yourself and the Allied that way, which makes you a kind of Nazi yourself, not hesitating to demonize an entire nation.
@malcstag "I think if I applied common sense to my maths that looks about right would you say?"
I don't deny the fact that the Nazis had lots of supporters. But not even the space with ca. 400 000 appraluders tells the truth.
The truth is that no negative thing was allowed to say about the Nazis, in the pain of torture and prison. Hitler deprived German civil rights after the fire of Reicstag which he had staged himself.
@joelSanFrancisco "But nazis (just like arab terrorists) suffer from moral cowardice."
We agree that the Nazis were morally cowards.
However, this policy of RAF nightly raids was cowardice as well. There is no valour in targeting hospitals, schools, housing areas, museums, universtities & c. And the goal of this policy was POLITICAL, not military.
The firebombing of Japan as well and all "shock and awe" against civs. to come was nothing but cowardice and war crime by definition.
@TheMrPangloss More Nazi apologist propaganda from YT's resident troll. Why do you try to play down Nazi crimes and try to put the blame on the Allies?
Answer: Because you are a Nazi apologist troll spreading the thoughts of the Nazi faithfull.
@TheMrPangloss "However, this policy of RAF nightly raids was cowardice as well." There was nothing as low down and coward like as the behavior of the Finnish SS. Killing innocent civilians in cold blood. And having Iron Crosses awarded by Hitler himself for their efforts, Spreading the ideology of the racist murdering scum of Hitlers death cult. Damn your eyes Sir! You are the real Coward here. Spreading malicious anti British unfounded lies and then claiming not to be a Nazi aplogist buffoon!
@TheMrPangloss You are a cheap, crass & manipulative Nazi apologist. Your whole agenda here is to divert the crimes of the Nazis and put them onto others. You have never produced any credible evidence to back up your claims. Just the monotonous repeat of cheap allegations that have been proved to be totally flawed.
And a Finnish war crime denial troll to boot! Loudly applauded by Neo Nazis, anti Semites and gormless adolescents. Well done!
If you say you are not a Nazi apologist then you are not a Nazi apologist. Just as you claim Obama is a liar for setting up the bin Laden assasination as a hoax. Of course you Conspiracy theory nuts are allways right!
I think your lies and manipulation of facts speak for themselves. Eggs is Eggs and Grossliar is a Nazi apologist. Perhaps you are so far up your own Gary Glitter that you can't see it for yourself.
@TheMrPangloss And The Baedeker raids were manly i guess? I live in Southampton and it was bombed at will for years, mostly just dropped on for a laugh by bombers with a unused payload on the way home, the area around here is still littered with massive ponds and craters from casual bombing. Bomber Harris is a Hero, he concentrated efforts on one spot to maximise affect with minimum resource, it was sad his work was unfinished.and he was sidelined too early to prove his theory right.
@malcstag "And The Baedeker raids were manly i guess? "
The Baedecker raids were pure cultural vandalism and a war crime of course.
But the Baedecker raids would not have happened if the "heroic" Arthur Harris would not have "tested mixes" on the Mediaeval city cores of Luebeck, Rostock and Stralsund.
Baedecker raids were a "payback" which means that it was a crime, of ANOTHER CRIME committed by the RAF.
Btw, the RAF bombed FRANCE ALONE more than the Luftwaffe bombed Britain.
I agree that the Blitz & c. against Britain was terrible.
But it was modest and amateurish compared to what the RAF did to Germany, Italy and France.
What Luftwaffe dropped to Britain was 5% in volume of what the RAF dropped to Germany. THIS IS EVEN BEYOND RETALIATION.
The Blitz killed ca. 40000 Britons whch is terrible, but the RAF killed the same number of women and children IN HOURS in 1944-1945 when the war was practically speaking over.
@malcstag "Bomber Harris is a Hero, he concentrated efforts on one spot to maximise affect with minimum resource..."
Bomber Harris is a war criminal. He implemented a mass murder of civilians, sanctioned by Churchill and planned by Lord Cherwell. The four-engine bombers were designed for mass killing. The priority was in the civilian population already in the 1940 directives of Air Ministry, and it was further enhanced in 1942 in the "dehousing paper" which did not go through without protests.
@TheMrPangloss He can't be a war criminal - he committed no crime, he had a job to do and he did it. The RAF and USAF did no more than finish what Germany started at Guernica in 1937. He is a global war hero and it's only the nazis who still cry over their humiliation at his hands today. RIP Harris, we're all indebted to you and your boys.
@ferranerazzi "He can't be a war criminal - he committed no crime, he had a job to do and he did it. "
Radovan Karacic gave a "job to do" to General Vlado Mladic, Stalin had a "job to do" to red army encouraging the soldiers to rape. Kissingher gave "a job to do" to USAAF when they illegally bombed Cambodia.
And then the Nazis too! Hitler gave a "job to do" to the SS which strafed villages in White Russia and Ukraine.
All war crimiinals from Mladic to Harris and the SS.
@ferranerazzi "He is a global war hero and it's only the nazis who still cry over their humiliation at his hands today. RIP Harris, we're all indebted to you and your boys."
A fascist outburst. You could also be thankful for Werner Von Braun as the "Hero" who did not only plan the V1 and V2 rockets but also the prototypes of nuclear missiles for the west.
It is the war industry complex which goes laughing to the bank.
Firstly, I don't whine. Secondly, I am no nazi, nor does your retort make me one.
"i've heard it all before."
You will always hear it at least once more.
"Harris is a hero to the world, you lost, get over it."
Now this is a bit desperate. Some would deem you mentally ill to defend a hired killer who was "given a job" to kill women, children, elderly and hospitalized.
No matter how patriotic an excuse it is a crime and it remains so.
@TheMrPangloss I've read your whines on here to anyone who'll listen. Funny how no-one agrees with you, how does it feel to be in a minority of 1. Harris is a hero to everyone bar the nazi losers like you dreaming of that fatherland that never happened. Killing jew gassing murderers in their beds is no crime, it's a duty and one which he was pretty good at. You can stop whining now loser, i'm not someone who is going to feed your sad keyboard masturbation, I have a life. Ciao - you lost LOL.
@ferranerazzi "You can stop whining now loser, i'm not someone who is going to feed your sad keyboard masturbation, I have a life. Ciao"
Masturbate yourself in front of RAF/USAAC propaganda flicks. I have a life and a girl. there's no need for you to be worried about me. And I could not care less.
@TheMrPangloss Oh look you're back again - the way you feverishly dissect every comment everyone makes tells us all what you have in your life you nazi freak and it isn't "a girl". Keep whining, i'll keep laughing in your face.
@ferranerazzi "Keep whining, i'll keep laughing in your face."
It really doesn't matter much what you feel.
You re here promoting a kind of double standard by which war crime is not a war crime if it is committed by the Allied or whoever towards whom you feel sympathy. "Good guys", in other words.
Unfortunately a crime bears its signs which fulfill the definitions of crime.
The Allied bombardments of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima & c. were all crimes.
LOL. The Nazi card is the only thing you can use. So little you know about anything.
And worse to you that people see through the efforts when one tries to appeal them by illusions and lies, like the entertainment industry.
The truth is that killing another human being is a crime. Whenever a soldier, be he a "good guy" or a "bad guy", kills a civilian, it is a crime and it remains a crime.
He just is a war criminal no matter how you dislike the fact. He was war criminal enough to the RAF to tell him to leave after the war. Earlier Churchill (in Dresden Memo February 1945) distanced himself from the RAF Bomber Command. Harris was the life saver for Churchill's career because for his proverbial thirst of civilian blood he was an ideal scapegoat.
@TheMrPangloss No, he's a war criminal to nazis like you because he fried you in your beds in retaliation for 76 nights of bombing London and civilian hearts out of Warsaw and Rotterdam and Guernica and Leningrad and a hundred more civilian targets. The allied forces had a war to win against a psychotic jew gassing nutjob. I just love it when you bleating nazi, revisionist jerks come on here 70 years later crying your eyes out because you lost. GET OVER IT NAZI BOY.
@ferranerazzi "in retaliation for 76 nights of bombing London and civilian hearts out of Warsaw and Rotterdam"
Retaliation is not a militari term. The military are given goals to control territories and resources in the enemy territory. The destruction of resources such as communications and other infrastructure is a military goal.
But whenever civilans are bombed, no matter by whom, and no matter by which excuse, that is POLITICAL, not military, and war crime.
@ferranerazzi "just love it when you bleating nazi, revisionist jerks come on here 70 years later crying your eyes out because you lost. GET OVER IT NAZI BOY."
It happened again in Korea, Vietnam Cambodia, the Balkans, and Iraq.
The idea is the same: the civilian population killed by the "heroic" harmageddon-like "shock and awe".
They were all war crimes. The closer you scrutiny them, the more obviously they were.
@TheMrPangloss Not sure what your point is you seem to be siding with the krauts? The idea was to take out one city at a time until they surrendered, totally. 'They sowed the wind they reaped a whirlwind!' Too bad it wasn't more effective so the krauts surrendered earlier, unfortunately for them they turned their attention to Soviets after aborting takeover of the UK and spread themselves way too thinly. Then down came the iron curtain...
@malcstag "Not sure what your point is you seem to be siding with the krauts? "
I don't 'side' anybody. Well "Krauts"? They are just people, there is nothing really special or 'demonic' in them.
"The idea was to take out one city at a time until they surrendered, totally."
Really? Babies and young mothers, hospitalized, and even POWs. Even they were supposed to 'surrender'? They would 'surrender totally' when they'd be dead? LOL
@TheMrPangloss Same old German line, 'but they made us do it' We see hours of film of the same women , children and men that you speak of lining the streets giving the Nazi salute, all supporting, non stopping them , to hell with the lot of them. We see the 'Arab spring' where people overthrew dictators, why not the Krauts..and yes they were demonic people.
There really is evidence that Henry Ford, for example, supported Hitler throughout the 1920s, the case of Prescott Bush is also chrystal clear for he owned a Nazi money laundry bank in NY wall street the assets of which J.Edgar Hoover confiscated in 1941. Later supporters were also the Rockefellers in the 1930s.
The same circles who earlier had supported the Bolsheviks supported later the Nazis.
@TheMrPangloss ''the case of Prescott Bush is also chrystal clear for he owned a Nazi money laundry bank in NY wall street the assets of which J.Edgar Hoover confiscated in 1941.'' There is no evidence that any non German nationals funded Hitler. You make these claims but you are totally unable to post any evidence to prove your point. Just Sutton's guilt by association, conspiracy theory, sensationalist publications.
@TheMrPangloss My point is if people don't like their government then the people do something about it. No argument to be made there. It happened in my own country with Charles 1st then the reformation etc That is why we have a democracy now.If the people are happy to go along with it then they are complicit in any wrong doing by that country.
@malcstag "My point is if people don't like their government then the people do something about it."
Well, Hitler's life was attempted 40 times. Behind these attemps of which begun before the war were Germany's industrial circles and factions in Wehrmacht. Some individuals made suicidal assassination attempts against Hitler.
Tell North Koreans how to get rid of their dynastic dictatorship. Dictators are well guarded people.
@malcstag "If the people are happy to go along with it then they are complicit in any wrong doing by that country."
Hitler's government killed 1 000 000 ethnic Germans for they opposed his system. The Nazi Germany was guarded by a secret police with frightening effectivity. The Communist Soviet was even better guarded, with more polices per citizens.
Btw, why didn't the Russians do 'something about it'? Do they as well 'deserve' their disgusting system during the Soviet rule?
@malcstag "We see hours of film of the same women , children and men that you speak of lining the streets giving the Nazi salute,..."
The "Wochenschau" as a historical source is as reliable as the Soviet propaganda flicks. Hired applauders appear in Nazi propaganda just like in Soviet assemblies at Red Square. Those two dictatorships were so very similar...
@TheMrPangloss Gullible moron? You really think every German film ever seen on TV with people giving the Nazi salute were all hired applauders, just how many were hired then? Hundreds of thousands, millions? Me gullible indeed.
So you just assume that they all were for Hitler. Guilty as charged, eh?
The kzs were full of political prisoners from 1933 on. The Nazi system was one of the worst police states in the history. Many people were Nazis because they were opportunists, but some others were scared enough. And yet many risked their lives by hiding Jews & c. persecuted people.
You tell me that "wochenschau" & c. was a 'reliable' source. I don't agree with you.
@TheMrPangloss You may have a point they weren't saluting Hitler they were perhaps pointing to something behind Hitler in the sky, a bird or UFO perhaps? I know wochenschau was very embellished propaganda but was a fair reflection of how Germans viewed themselves and the world, as mentioned previously they were implicit as they let it happen, Nazi regime or not.
@malcstag "I know wochenschau was very embellished propaganda but was a fair reflection of how Germans viewed themselves and the world, as mentioned previously they were implicit as they let it happen..."
Yes, a large part of Germans viewed themselves that way under a government which did not allow any other way.
The brave Germans who opposed it were true heroes for not only were they persecuted by the evil government, but were also abandoned and ridiculed by the "liberators".
@TheMrPangloss is a Neo Nazi Prick he makes up things and tries to pass them off as fact dumb bastard Pangloss why do you send messages to people calling them JEWISH VERMIN you twat HITLERS EVIL LITTLE HENCHMAN THAT'S THE FINNS
@malcstag "hired applauders, just how many were hired then? Hundreds of thousands, millions? "
Tell me in which propaganda flick you see "millions of applauders" or "hundreds of thousands" of applauders.
Use your common sense. How many people fit in a city square or football stadium? "Millions"?
Look the Nazi and Soviet propaganda flicks and compare them. They are sooo similar. They all want to persuade people to believe that they represent the whole nation.
@TheMrPangloss ''V.M. Spaight, secretary of Air Ministry says in his "Bombing Vindicated" (London 1944) that it was the RAF which started bombing cities.''
Another manipulation of facts again Grossliar. The RAF were not the first to bomb cities.
It was Nazi Germany on Wielun. This has been established on these channels many times. But you continue to manipulate facts and lie. That is why you are a Nazi aplogist.
@malcstag "oo bad it wasn't more effective so the krauts surrendered earlier, ..."
Well the British had abandoned the anti-Nazi resistance at the start in 1933.
How would women, children, schoolchildren, retired, enslaved workers and POWs "surrender" in a police state like the Nazi Germany? The consequences? Executions, incarcerations & c.
How would they organize a 'surrender' without their own troops and an anti-Nazi coup? I mean, children, young mothers & c.????
@malcstag "unfortunately for them they turned their attention to Soviets after aborting takeover of the UK and spread themselves way too thinly."
This is typical British self flattery. 80% of the losses of Wehrmacht occurred on the eastern front.
"Then down came the iron curtain..."
This iron curtain was probably planned before the war. The purpose of ww2 was to depopulate eastern europe and to keep it in poverty and dictatorship which it did. Then down came the iron curtain..."
I find it odd that a thread about BC, in its 1st thousand bomber raid, should create such hatred & for, not just BC!!! I will support BC all the way. I don't believe Harris made the right decisions! I am not being self righteous! But at the end of the day. The allies had 'Jack'!!! N.Africa......yes! Where else? Nowhere! Until D-Day. Our only 'Fight back' was Bombing Germany!! Strangely, despite our efforts,. The majority of BC sucess was after D-Day! ...But...Big up the Bomber coys!!!
The MINUTE that this raid took, Germany was doomed. It was just a matter of time. The nazi cowards should have surrendered the next day, and spared the lives of all of these brave Allied young men, not to mention the nazi's own families and cities. But nazis (just like arab terrorists) suffer from moral cowardice.
@TheUSeh "He's one of 50,000 NAZIS executed BY NAZIS who tried to stop the war."
It was the Wehrmacht which tried to stop the war, and a faction inside it. They were no Nazis. The army had even some earlier attempts to kill Hitler and stop the war. Even before the war the army and a group of German industrialists attempted Hitler's life for they deemed him dangerous for Germany's future. They were damn right.
No, it is you who loves Hitler, not me. You really NEED him for when you are totally drained of ideas you try to use the "Nazi card" against unpleasant posts.
You love the international war industry complex. Just FYI, Hitler was a creation of the war industry complex.
You called me a Nazi Apologist believing that I would "behave''. That is, you knew so bloody well that I was not one. I just posted something that was unpleasant enough to call me names. I did something right then. You are just another nonentity and self righteous git.
And I can clearly see that you are at the verge of bitterness when you respond. Nothing could be further from "laughter" than that.
Sure, sure, Mr Panglos. Guess you don't have a mirror and see who is the one living in denial. Guess 99% of professional historians, and those who really witnessed these incidents decades ago, and now very old and dying, also lived "in a denial". You, Pangloss make people laugh!
In Carroll Quigley's "Anglo Saxon Establishment" it is well explained how propaganda is backed up and more honest and impartial history writing put down when it doesn't serve certain groups of interest.
Sorry to say, but that is PROPAGANDA. Scientific value is NOT IN COMPLACENCY and PERCENTAGE but in the effort of getting as close to the truth as is possible with the data available.
But with revisionists, and possible neonazis, people take the risk not learning the mistakes of the past. They support the war the Nazis committed, they "excuse" the crimes they committed. They "criticize" with hypocrisy the other countries' imperialism, yet "excuse" the one Hitler had in plan. Me? I hate wars and imperialism even from USA. I criticise USA for the wars it brought to Vietnam and now Middle East. You cannot accuse me of "hypocrisy". I am honest.
@Bruno53ification "I hate wars and imperialism even from USA. I criticise USA for the wars it brought to Vietnam and now Middle East. You cannot accuse me of "hypocrisy". I am honest."
No, you are not honest. You are ready for libel when somebody disagrees with you.
The question of Germany is too complicated for you. You WANT to see THE ENTIRE NATION AS VILLAINS. There are many crappy historians who side this view BECAUSE THE ALLIED NEEDED SUCH A POLITICAL DOCTRINES FOR DECADES AFTER THE WAR.
We do agree that Hitler was a villain and we DO AGREE that the Nazis were racist, criminals & c.
But there are inconsistencies in the main stream written history which you don't want to hear. Victor's history is understandable, but it is POLITICAL IN NATURE AND IT PROTECTS ALL THOSE WHO IN THEIR TURN COMMITTED CRIMES.
The ww2 is the dirtiest chapter in the history, SO DON'T TRY TO LIE THAT THE ALLIED DID IT ALL IN AN ALTRUISTIC MANNER.
And British Empire did ugly things. Much the British had decades to think about it, and at least they accept the mistakes. And that empire is now history. Like Nazi Germany is history now.
Mr Panglos "ignored" how his "hero" Hitler attacked without provocation neutral countries like Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg first, besides attacking France and England. Hitler KNEW Britain and France will declare war if he attacked Poland. They gave him the warnings. And we are not talking what Mr Harris did in the 1920s. Don't change the subject.
There is no such thing as a "clean war". Seem to forget that the Nazis were the ones who started terror bombing! Read how the bomb Poland and Rotterdam before the Allies decided to "play rough" with these guys.
@Bruno53ification "Seem to forget that the Nazis were the ones who started terror bombing! "
The RAF bombed Kurd and Arab villagers in the early 1920s using white phosphorus. Young Arthur "Bomber" Harris wrote a memo in 1924 where he stated that a handful of aircraft could easily destroy several villages in 45 minutes and kill a third of their population, affecting the "morale". Thus this was an early form of terror bombing and the RAF practiced it in India as well.
EXCUSE ME!! Instead of hypocritically "criticizing" RAF Field Mashall "Bomber" Harris for airfirebombing Nazi Germany, why don't you criticize Adolf Hitler for causing World War II IN THE FIRST PLACE??? St-p-d hypocrites neonazis!
@Bruno53ification "Nazi Germany, why don't you criticize Adolf Hitler for causing World War II IN THE FIRST PLACE??? "
He WAS an aggressor ,and his government was evil. However, ...
(1) He attacked Poland ... WITH STALIN.
(2) Britain and France declared war and attacked German - not vice versa. This is just the truth, not that anybody would symphatize Hitler's evil government.
(3) CHURCHILL EXPLICITLY SAID THAT IT WAS A WAR AGAINST GERMANY which means a war against Hitler's opponents as well.
@BarryCFCOK It was your "hero" Adolf Hitler who caused World War II! Nazi Germany caused World War II and the Allies forced to give the Nazi Germans their "thanks" by airfirebombing it!
@Bruno53ification My hero how did we arrive at that chum? seeing an injustice is not having a hero and there was nothing heroic about bombing schools, hospitals, old peoples homes and church's whilst hiding behind the channel waiting for the americans to come and win another European war. The point I am attempting to make is that Germans where put on a show trial for doing mass murder but the victors where not.
Come off it TheMrPangloss. Conspiracy theory requires no intellectual ability at all. All you need is a deep dislike of whomever or whatever you see as perpetrator. In your case it is the US and Britain. And then you have to make the ‘facts’ fit your theory. Your problem is that none of your ‘evidence’ actually proves your point. Sutton does not prove the UK funded Hitler. Bacque does not prove Eisenhower Killed 1 5000 000 German POW’s.
@LordGodofMercy "Conspiracy theory requires no intellectual ability at all."
You don't know even how to google, you have to ask your buddies to do that. You don't know how refer to sources. What are you to speak about intellectual ability? Explaining you what is intellectual is like trying to play music to a deaf person or humor to a complete saddo.
"Your problem is that none of your ‘evidence’ actually proves your point. "
I have proven my points well, for your displeasure.
@LordGodofMercy "And then you have to make the ‘facts’ fit your theory. Your problem is that none of your ‘evidence’ actually proves your point. Sutton does not prove the UK funded Hitler. Bacque does not prove Eisenhower Killed 1 5000 000 German POW’s."
Then prove his statements wrong. You know his works and he has used, e.g.,recently declassified KGB archiives as source.
You are not able to prove him wrong. He has many honest and impartial colleagues who sopport him in this. Wiki doesn't.
@EpicRandomDude It's unfortunate that you feel that way. It's not good to hold grudges over multiple generations. Large scale air raids on population centers were terrible, but that was a terrible war. At some point, well before this raid, both sides decided these attacks were either acceptable or unavoidable. Just look at the London blitz. The allies were not solely to blame for the nature of the air war.
Oh, and this raid was RAF. No Americans in this particular raid.
@NoOne3234 "At some point, well before this raid, both sides decided these attacks were either acceptable or unavoidable. "
"Revenge" is not a military term. It is rather a confession of committing a war crime in an international court. Whenever a "revenge" occurs in a war, it is POLITICAL in nature.
There is NO EXCUSE of targeting homes with women and children. Moreover both U.S. and U.K. planned their four-engine bombers in the inter war period, to target homes with women and children.
@TheMrPangloss It's all very nice to restrict war to a very specific demographic and say that their deaths are acceptable under the rules of war, but conscripting men of a certain age and sending them off to die by the millions like they did in WWI is an atrocity in itself. What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?
War on this scale is an atrocity and, by its very nature, there is a retaliatory aspect to it. A nation confronted with total has a responsibility to its inhabitants to respond in kind until they are no longer threatened.
That said, I am far less comfortable with later war raids in Europe or the strategic bombing of (a more or less defeated) Japan than with this particular raid on Cologne. In 1942, the Germans were far from defeated.
@NoOne3234 "What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?"
That is a good question. By justifying the indiscriminate bombings of civilians you also justify the ethnic cleansings committed by the SS in White Russia and Ukraine.
Be aware that I am happy that the Nazis are seen as criminals. Why thenshould I accept any other powers who behave like them? The RAF / USAAC campaigns against housing, hospitals, schools & c. was a war crime.
@NoOne3234 "What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?"
What difference does it make if soldiers line up civilians and strafe them with machine gun or if they drop air mines and gasoline jelly in their suburbs causing fire storms which could melt even steel?
There is no difference. In both cases the goal is not of military nature by politically motivated annihilation or mass murder
@TheMrPangloss Strategic bombing, like the use of submarines, had military advantages recognized by both sides. Without the presence of ground forces, bombers could destroy rail yards, refineries, factories, and dockyards, depriving the enemy of supplies and other resources. Like submarine warfare, however, strategic bombing is indiscriminate and will result in civilian casualties. This distinguishes it from ground warfare, where mass civilian deaths are avoidable.
@NoOne3234 This isn't to say that Strategic bombing is not an atrocity (it is), but when one side exploits this method of warfare, it is unreasonable for the other not to. This is not a blanket endorsement of strategic bombing and I have already mentioned several allied actions that I do not agree with.
@NoOne3234 "This isn't to say that Strategic bombing is not an atrocity (it is), but when one side exploits this method of warfare, it is unreasonable for the other not to."
Really? Many scholars agree that the terror bombings against civilians were counterproductive.
(1) They squandered resources which could have been used in a more reasonable way.
(2) They stiffened the resistance. Instead of breaking the "morale", it made even those who were hostile to the Nazi government adaptable.
@TheMrPangloss Strategic bombing is not synonymous with terror bombing, rather terror bombing is a subset of strategic bombing. You have admitted the effectiveness of "precision" bombing of high value targets, which is a critical objective in strategic bombing.
The effectiveness of terror bombing is debatable, but when I look at the USAAF's strategic bombing of Japan, I am inclined to believe that it's effective when undertaken at a sufficiently large scale.
@NoOne3234 "The effectiveness of terror bombing is debatable, but when I look at the USAAF's strategic bombing of Japan, I am inclined to believe that it's effective when undertaken at a sufficiently large scale. "
There are dip[lomatic f sources which indicate that Japan was ready for peace already in May 1945, and the nukes were dropped in August 1945. The Manhattan Project recommended an uninhabited area instead of a city. Seems rather that the war industry wanted to test the weapon on civs.
@TheMrPangloss Why are we limiting our discussion to nukes? A major firebombing raid has the same immediate death toll and scale of destruction. Intensive firebombing was used prior to May 1945. A single raid in March killed roughly 100,000 people and destroyed 16 square miles of Tokyo. Your argument for the ineffectiveness of terror bombing ignores the fact (often forgotten) that the two nukes were only the tip of the iceberg in that bombing campaign.
@NoOne3234 "Why are we limiting our discussion to nukes?"
I did not intend to limit the discussion to nukes, but I must point out that the two nukes are logical continuation of the firebombing.
And just like the firebombing, we are lied to about their nature. Firstly, they were not at all necessary from a military point of view, secondly, they did not "help to stop the war sooner" and, thirdly, the civilian deaths was their primary aim, not a "collateral" loss.
@NoOne3234 "Without the presence of ground forces, bombers could destroy rail yards, refineries, factories, and dockyards, depriving the enemy of supplies and other resources."
A relevant point, the USAAC daylight bombings against oil refineries was decisive.
But the governments lied to us ordinary citizens. The so-called "strategic bombing" was tested immediately after ww1 in Iraq, and thr four-engine bombers in the 30s. The goal was to kill as many civilians as possible on the ground.
@NoOne3234 "... bombers could destroy rail yards, refineries, factories, and dockyards, depriving the enemy of supplies and other resources... strategic bombing is indiscriminate and will result in civilian casualties. "
There was the so-called Dehousing Plan which was lobbied through in the War Cabinet in 1942, and the air war directively where civilians were targeted already in 1940, was rendered really murderous.
That's why it was NOT COLLATERAL. The killing of civs was the principal goal.
@NoOne3234 "What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?" Numerous international ratified, signed and agreed conventions and agreements, to protect for example the retired, new born babies, schoolchildren & c.
I an SS squadron takes over a school and machineguns the children, it is not the responsibility of the Soviet govt. Similarly, if the RAF bombs a church during a mass killing those who attend the service, it is the responsibility of the RAF.
So Elberiverscum these are your words. Are you one of Anders Behring Breiviks unhinged, lunatic Neo Nazi soul mates? Your thoughts are chillingly similar
“The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is our own European politicians who BRING THEM IN. These multi-culti politicians are traitors.
We must
A) stop paying social benefit to Islam immigrants
B) deport those who commit crimes
C) remove the traitors from our governments and indict them for high treason.”
Do you know how many planes Germans lost in russian front? Over 77 thousands!! This is why you could to fly unpunished over III Reich and massacre harmless peoples who fought in White Race name! Now, you have got Tottenham, London and man others funny places... :)
@LordGodofMercy is a British NAZI account. He votes the racist BNP and he adores British Nazi Nick Griffin.
He hates Germans, Blacks, Jews, Africans, Asians, He wants to exterminate all foreigners. WARNING - this man is a racist and a Britsh BNP-voting Nazi.
Just a visit! Hi all! Hi Pang! Hi the Pro Allies!! Hope you R all good! Just 4 the record, I am pro-allies. But, I understand the other side!! .............HS, I am disappointed, re FB!!!! A nice chat wud have been ace!!!!
WARNING - @yogifalkmybitch is a British NAZI account. He votes the racist BNP and he adores British Nazi Nick Griffin.
He hates Germans, Blacks, Jews, Africans, Asians, He wants to exterminate all foreigners. WARNING - this man is a racist and a Britsh BNP-voting Nazi.
Can I restart this thread with a question that I do not want to be answered in a negative way?
OK? In 1942, Britain was in N.Africa. Where else? Nowhere! So, were Britain supposed to lay back & enjoy the prev Luftwaffe bombing? No. Britain wanted revenge 4 London, Coventry et al! Lovely 2 sit back, but, there was a war on!! Should we have just sat back & watched our Country dying? Of the anti-bombing people out there, I don't think U no how the Brit people work!!!
@TheMrPamglosss TheMrPangloss has his views, of which we have talked at length about. But, 4 U to have the name 'TheMrPamglosss' that is so similar, is so disrespectful! I don't agree with his views, but to perpetrate to be him is so wrong! I'm pro allies, all the way, but to copy his name & dis him is not the best way for him to understand our point of view! In a way, you are just as bad as his views! I'm sorry, but, I would really like this site 2 discuss on a more intellectual level!
TheMrPangloss Why are you posting ALL JEWS ARE VERMIN ? Why did Finland hand over to the Gestapo on the 6th November 1942 8 Jewish people to be murdered ? Come on you Nazi Apologist tongue twisting toe tapping brown nosed Nazi gimp lets see you lies once again you Anti Semitic prick
@martynpank The goal of the Anglo-U.S. capital in the 1890s was to curb the rise of Germany as an economical power and to prevent Germany and Russia from finding their mutual interests. That would have challenged the British Empire. In the U.S. the economical cricles wanted to prevent the Russians to use effectively their large natural resources (largest in the world) and to increase in prosperity.
This claim about Eisenhower’s death camps is lifted from a conspiracy nut (anonymous author) google: rense. This is basically a site dedicated to all sorts of conspiracy nonsense particularly claiming old chestnuts like Jewish bankers control the world, Obama’s birth certificate isn’t real etc.... In reality there is no evidence that 1 500,000 German POW’s were deliberately starved to death by US forces. Period (As they say in the US)
"... tons and tons of beautiful bombs ... "
Sweet!
SlideRulePirate 3 weeks ago
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"... tons and tons of beautiful bombs ... "
Yes, and by them women and children were targeted.
It is not very flattering for it is a war crime and due to the GARGANTUAN scale of attack against the civilian population, it was also a crime against humanity.
TheMrPangloss 3 weeks ago
Pangloss Neo Nazi Cock Sucker
OurBomberHarris 1 month ago
Come on Pangloss wheres your evidence YOU NAZI COCK SUCKER
NaziBoyPangloss 1 month ago
Mr Pangloss you little shit close your legs your breath smells you Nazi Tart
PanglossPuckeredButt 1 month ago
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"Pangloss The voice of Nazism The Greasy SHIT"
I am not any "voice of Nazism". I have always pointed out that the Nazi government was evil. I define the Nazi government as totalitarian, criminal, evil & c.
I have done that enough times. Thus my conscience is pure.
LordGodOfMercy instead doesn't have any pure conscience, or has no conscience at all.
We are thus wirth a poster of reptilian sense of morality.
LordGodOfMercy = "TheMrBlockTheHood", "yellowbellyfinns", "OurBomberHarris" & c.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss AKA Elberiver. Stormtrooper39. 20489. And all your other clones.
Please post some evidence to support your claims. Totally flawed as they are, just as your pathetic clone conspiracy.
LordGodofMercy 1 month ago
Pangloss The voice of Nazism The Greasy SHIT
TheMrBlockTheHood 1 month ago
Pangloss NEO NAZI retard
TheMrBlockTheHood 1 month ago
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@malcstag I know wochenschau was very embellished propaganda but was a fair reflection of how Germans viewed themselves and the world..."
Look all this glib Allied propaganda, RAF propaganda for example. There is for example one called "Dresden bombed to atoms". It is disgusting, like the Nazi propaganda or the Soviet propaganda.
You, as an individual picture yourself and the Allied that way, which makes you a kind of Nazi yourself, not hesitating to demonize an entire nation.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@malcstag "I think if I applied common sense to my maths that looks about right would you say?"
I don't deny the fact that the Nazis had lots of supporters. But not even the space with ca. 400 000 appraluders tells the truth.
The truth is that no negative thing was allowed to say about the Nazis, in the pain of torture and prison. Hitler deprived German civil rights after the fire of Reicstag which he had staged himself.
Every anti-Nazi German was a victim.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
To my old friend Ken Hudson who successfully flew 23 sorties over Germany and lived to tell the tale. RIP
malcstag 1 month ago
Merry Christmas Everyone Apart from THE NEO NAZI TheMrPangloss He can ROT IN HELL
OurBomberHarris 1 month ago
Pangloss come up with some facts you fucking prick stop your LIES you Nazi Apologist Prick
TheYellowbellyfins 1 month ago
Merry Christmas Everyone Apart from THE NAZI SLAG TheMrPangloss who can rot in hell
pangloss4bullshit 1 month ago
TheMrPangloss is a NEO NAZI SLAG
TheMrBlockTheHood 1 month ago
TheMrPangloss Feels sorry for THE MASS MURDERING GERMANS Nazi Apologist Prick
TheMrBlockTheHood 1 month ago
Pangloss Nazi COCK SUCKER
yogifalkmybitch 1 month ago
Pangloss you Finnish Neo Nazi Turd
TheMrBlockTheHood 1 month ago
Pangloss Nazi Freak and Greasy Arse Wipe
TheMrBlockTheHood 1 month ago
Pangloss Nazi Apologist and Neo Nazi CUNT
TheMrRector 1 month ago
Pangloss NAZI SLAG
TheYellowbellyfins 2 months ago 2
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@TheYellowbellyfins "Pangloss NAZI SLAG"
LordGodOfMercy, or how shall I call you? You have so many clone accounts.
I am NOT a Nazi Apologist.
Use more of your clones. That could give you some "credibility". Your smearing and character assassination attempts have failed.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
SIR ARTHUR HARRIS HERO
TheYellowbellyfins 2 months ago 2
@joelSanFrancisco "But nazis (just like arab terrorists) suffer from moral cowardice."
We agree that the Nazis were morally cowards.
However, this policy of RAF nightly raids was cowardice as well. There is no valour in targeting hospitals, schools, housing areas, museums, universtities & c. And the goal of this policy was POLITICAL, not military.
The firebombing of Japan as well and all "shock and awe" against civs. to come was nothing but cowardice and war crime by definition.
TheMrPangloss 2 months ago
@TheMrPangloss More Nazi apologist propaganda from YT's resident troll. Why do you try to play down Nazi crimes and try to put the blame on the Allies?
Answer: Because you are a Nazi apologist troll spreading the thoughts of the Nazi faithfull.
LordGodofMercy 2 months ago
@TheMrPangloss "However, this policy of RAF nightly raids was cowardice as well." There was nothing as low down and coward like as the behavior of the Finnish SS. Killing innocent civilians in cold blood. And having Iron Crosses awarded by Hitler himself for their efforts, Spreading the ideology of the racist murdering scum of Hitlers death cult. Damn your eyes Sir! You are the real Coward here. Spreading malicious anti British unfounded lies and then claiming not to be a Nazi aplogist buffoon!
LordGodofMercy 2 months ago
@LordGodofMercy "Spreading malicious anti British unfounded lies and then claiming not to be a Nazi aplogist buffoon!"
According to you all critics against the politics of the former British Empire and also calling it by its proper names is "Nazi Apologism".
You see, the true Nazi Apologism means the denial of the Nazi crimes and defence of the Nazi ideology. I have done none of these.
Britain's support to Nazism in 20s and 30s is one of the most cowardly deeds in the history ... contd.
TheMrPangloss 2 months ago
@LordGodofMercy ...contd.
which point is deeply anti-Nazi in nature.
You know this damn well, LordGod, and what you desperately try is to smear me and attach a "Nazi" label on me. Pathetic!!!
TheMrPangloss 2 months ago
@TheMrPangloss You are a cheap, crass & manipulative Nazi apologist. Your whole agenda here is to divert the crimes of the Nazis and put them onto others. You have never produced any credible evidence to back up your claims. Just the monotonous repeat of cheap allegations that have been proved to be totally flawed.
And a Finnish war crime denial troll to boot! Loudly applauded by Neo Nazis, anti Semites and gormless adolescents. Well done!
LordGodofMercy 2 months ago
@LordGodofMercy "You are a cheap, crass & manipulative Nazi apologist."
You sure have a criminal record. Are you a wife beater and child molester too?
Call me whatever you want but I am no Nazi Apologist.
TheMrPangloss 2 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Is a NAZI APOLOGIST The Filthy Scum
TheMrBlockTheHood 2 months ago
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@TheMrPangloss
If you say you are not a Nazi apologist then you are not a Nazi apologist. Just as you claim Obama is a liar for setting up the bin Laden assasination as a hoax. Of course you Conspiracy theory nuts are allways right!
I think your lies and manipulation of facts speak for themselves. Eggs is Eggs and Grossliar is a Nazi apologist. Perhaps you are so far up your own Gary Glitter that you can't see it for yourself.
LordGodofMercy 2 months ago
@TheMrPangloss And The Baedeker raids were manly i guess? I live in Southampton and it was bombed at will for years, mostly just dropped on for a laugh by bombers with a unused payload on the way home, the area around here is still littered with massive ponds and craters from casual bombing. Bomber Harris is a Hero, he concentrated efforts on one spot to maximise affect with minimum resource, it was sad his work was unfinished.and he was sidelined too early to prove his theory right.
malcstag 2 months ago
@malcstag "And The Baedeker raids were manly i guess? "
The Baedecker raids were pure cultural vandalism and a war crime of course.
But the Baedecker raids would not have happened if the "heroic" Arthur Harris would not have "tested mixes" on the Mediaeval city cores of Luebeck, Rostock and Stralsund.
Baedecker raids were a "payback" which means that it was a crime, of ANOTHER CRIME committed by the RAF.
Btw, the RAF bombed FRANCE ALONE more than the Luftwaffe bombed Britain.
contd.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@malcstag
I agree that the Blitz & c. against Britain was terrible.
But it was modest and amateurish compared to what the RAF did to Germany, Italy and France.
What Luftwaffe dropped to Britain was 5% in volume of what the RAF dropped to Germany. THIS IS EVEN BEYOND RETALIATION.
The Blitz killed ca. 40000 Britons whch is terrible, but the RAF killed the same number of women and children IN HOURS in 1944-1945 when the war was practically speaking over.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@malcstag "Bomber Harris is a Hero, he concentrated efforts on one spot to maximise affect with minimum resource..."
Bomber Harris is a war criminal. He implemented a mass murder of civilians, sanctioned by Churchill and planned by Lord Cherwell. The four-engine bombers were designed for mass killing. The priority was in the civilian population already in the 1940 directives of Air Ministry, and it was further enhanced in 1942 in the "dehousing paper" which did not go through without protests.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss "The four-engine bombers were designed for mass killing"
Whereas I suppose' 2 engine bombers were not! Your Nazi apologist comments are getting more ridiculous every day. LOL!
LordGodofMercy 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss He can't be a war criminal - he committed no crime, he had a job to do and he did it. The RAF and USAF did no more than finish what Germany started at Guernica in 1937. He is a global war hero and it's only the nazis who still cry over their humiliation at his hands today. RIP Harris, we're all indebted to you and your boys.
ferranerazzi 1 month ago
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@ferranerazzi "He can't be a war criminal - he committed no crime, he had a job to do and he did it. "
Radovan Karacic gave a "job to do" to General Vlado Mladic, Stalin had a "job to do" to red army encouraging the soldiers to rape. Kissingher gave "a job to do" to USAAF when they illegally bombed Cambodia.
And then the Nazis too! Hitler gave a "job to do" to the SS which strafed villages in White Russia and Ukraine.
All war crimiinals from Mladic to Harris and the SS.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "The RAF and USAF did no more than finish what Germany started at Guernica in 1937."
The Luftwaffe tested its weaponry at Guernica - a war crime with no doubt.
But the RAF had already tested its weaponry in Mesopotamia in the early 1920s and in an EXACTLY SIMILAR MANNER.
The USAAF then tested a new weapon in Japan in August 1945.
Again all war crimes and feats for war industry.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "He is a global war hero and it's only the nazis who still cry over their humiliation at his hands today. RIP Harris, we're all indebted to you and your boys."
A fascist outburst. You could also be thankful for Werner Von Braun as the "Hero" who did not only plan the V1 and V2 rockets but also the prototypes of nuclear missiles for the west.
It is the war industry complex which goes laughing to the bank.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss Don't whine at me nazi, i've heard it all before. Harris is a hero to the world, you lost, get over it.
ferranerazzi 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "Don't whine at me nazi"
Firstly, I don't whine. Secondly, I am no nazi, nor does your retort make me one.
"i've heard it all before."
You will always hear it at least once more.
"Harris is a hero to the world, you lost, get over it."
Now this is a bit desperate. Some would deem you mentally ill to defend a hired killer who was "given a job" to kill women, children, elderly and hospitalized.
No matter how patriotic an excuse it is a crime and it remains so.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss I've read your whines on here to anyone who'll listen. Funny how no-one agrees with you, how does it feel to be in a minority of 1. Harris is a hero to everyone bar the nazi losers like you dreaming of that fatherland that never happened. Killing jew gassing murderers in their beds is no crime, it's a duty and one which he was pretty good at. You can stop whining now loser, i'm not someone who is going to feed your sad keyboard masturbation, I have a life. Ciao - you lost LOL.
ferranerazzi 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "I've read your whines on here to anyone who'll listen. Funny how no-one agrees with you, how does it feel to be in a minority of 1. "
There are many who agree with me. You are just one pompous git who thinks that the whole world is like you. Happily it is not.
"Funny ..."
You are so bitter. The sulkiest laughter so far here on YT.
"Harris is a hero to everyone bar the nazi losers like you dreaming of that fatherland..."
Somehow you sound like Nazi yourself.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "You can stop whining now loser, i'm not someone who is going to feed your sad keyboard masturbation, I have a life. Ciao"
Masturbate yourself in front of RAF/USAAC propaganda flicks. I have a life and a girl. there's no need for you to be worried about me. And I could not care less.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss Oh look you're back again - the way you feverishly dissect every comment everyone makes tells us all what you have in your life you nazi freak and it isn't "a girl". Keep whining, i'll keep laughing in your face.
ferranerazzi 1 month ago
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@ferranerazzi "Keep whining, i'll keep laughing in your face."
It really doesn't matter much what you feel.
You re here promoting a kind of double standard by which war crime is not a war crime if it is committed by the Allied or whoever towards whom you feel sympathy. "Good guys", in other words.
Unfortunately a crime bears its signs which fulfill the definitions of crime.
The Allied bombardments of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima & c. were all crimes.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "you nazi freak"
LOL. The Nazi card is the only thing you can use. So little you know about anything.
And worse to you that people see through the efforts when one tries to appeal them by illusions and lies, like the entertainment industry.
The truth is that killing another human being is a crime. Whenever a soldier, be he a "good guy" or a "bad guy", kills a civilian, it is a crime and it remains a crime.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss IS A NAZI FREAK AND PRICK
yogifalkmybitch 1 month ago
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@yogifalkmybitch "IS A NAZI FREAK AND PRICK"
LoerGodOfMercy,
I am no freak, nor am I a Nazi Apologist.
But you are a genuine Fascist, LordGodOfMercy.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "He can't be a war criminal ..."
He just is a war criminal no matter how you dislike the fact. He was war criminal enough to the RAF to tell him to leave after the war. Earlier Churchill (in Dresden Memo February 1945) distanced himself from the RAF Bomber Command. Harris was the life saver for Churchill's career because for his proverbial thirst of civilian blood he was an ideal scapegoat.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss No, he's a war criminal to nazis like you because he fried you in your beds in retaliation for 76 nights of bombing London and civilian hearts out of Warsaw and Rotterdam and Guernica and Leningrad and a hundred more civilian targets. The allied forces had a war to win against a psychotic jew gassing nutjob. I just love it when you bleating nazi, revisionist jerks come on here 70 years later crying your eyes out because you lost. GET OVER IT NAZI BOY.
ferranerazzi 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "in retaliation for 76 nights of bombing London and civilian hearts out of Warsaw and Rotterdam"
Retaliation is not a militari term. The military are given goals to control territories and resources in the enemy territory. The destruction of resources such as communications and other infrastructure is a military goal.
But whenever civilans are bombed, no matter by whom, and no matter by which excuse, that is POLITICAL, not military, and war crime.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@ferranerazzi "for 76 nights of bombing London and civilian hearts out of Warsaw and Rotterdam and Guernica..."
So the motive of the bombing campaign was this? Retaliation?
Congratulations, you acknowledged that the RAF / USAAC committed an enormous war crime.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@ferranerazzi "just love it when you bleating nazi, revisionist jerks come on here 70 years later crying your eyes out because you lost. GET OVER IT NAZI BOY."
It happened again in Korea, Vietnam Cambodia, the Balkans, and Iraq.
The idea is the same: the civilian population killed by the "heroic" harmageddon-like "shock and awe".
They were all war crimes. The closer you scrutiny them, the more obviously they were.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss Not sure what your point is you seem to be siding with the krauts? The idea was to take out one city at a time until they surrendered, totally. 'They sowed the wind they reaped a whirlwind!' Too bad it wasn't more effective so the krauts surrendered earlier, unfortunately for them they turned their attention to Soviets after aborting takeover of the UK and spread themselves way too thinly. Then down came the iron curtain...
malcstag 1 month ago
@malcstag "Not sure what your point is you seem to be siding with the krauts? "
I don't 'side' anybody. Well "Krauts"? They are just people, there is nothing really special or 'demonic' in them.
"The idea was to take out one city at a time until they surrendered, totally."
Really? Babies and young mothers, hospitalized, and even POWs. Even they were supposed to 'surrender'? They would 'surrender totally' when they'd be dead? LOL
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss Same old German line, 'but they made us do it' We see hours of film of the same women , children and men that you speak of lining the streets giving the Nazi salute, all supporting, non stopping them , to hell with the lot of them. We see the 'Arab spring' where people overthrew dictators, why not the Krauts..and yes they were demonic people.
malcstag 1 month ago
@malcstag " 'but they made us do it' "
This is total bullshit.
There really is evidence that Henry Ford, for example, supported Hitler throughout the 1920s, the case of Prescott Bush is also chrystal clear for he owned a Nazi money laundry bank in NY wall street the assets of which J.Edgar Hoover confiscated in 1941. Later supporters were also the Rockefellers in the 1930s.
The same circles who earlier had supported the Bolsheviks supported later the Nazis.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss ''the case of Prescott Bush is also chrystal clear for he owned a Nazi money laundry bank in NY wall street the assets of which J.Edgar Hoover confiscated in 1941.'' There is no evidence that any non German nationals funded Hitler. You make these claims but you are totally unable to post any evidence to prove your point. Just Sutton's guilt by association, conspiracy theory, sensationalist publications.
LordGodofMercy 1 month ago
@malcstag "We see the 'Arab spring' where people overthrew dictators"
Lol.
The Soviet lasted from the 1920s to the 1990s. Tell Russians that they are "collectively evil" because they 'let the dictators rule them'.
Your argument is really priceless.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss My point is if people don't like their government then the people do something about it. No argument to be made there. It happened in my own country with Charles 1st then the reformation etc That is why we have a democracy now.If the people are happy to go along with it then they are complicit in any wrong doing by that country.
malcstag 1 month ago
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TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@malcstag "My point is if people don't like their government then the people do something about it."
Well, Hitler's life was attempted 40 times. Behind these attemps of which begun before the war were Germany's industrial circles and factions in Wehrmacht. Some individuals made suicidal assassination attempts against Hitler.
Tell North Koreans how to get rid of their dynastic dictatorship. Dictators are well guarded people.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@malcstag "If the people are happy to go along with it then they are complicit in any wrong doing by that country."
Hitler's government killed 1 000 000 ethnic Germans for they opposed his system. The Nazi Germany was guarded by a secret police with frightening effectivity. The Communist Soviet was even better guarded, with more polices per citizens.
Btw, why didn't the Russians do 'something about it'? Do they as well 'deserve' their disgusting system during the Soviet rule?
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@malcstag "We see hours of film of the same women , children and men that you speak of lining the streets giving the Nazi salute,..."
The "Wochenschau" as a historical source is as reliable as the Soviet propaganda flicks. Hired applauders appear in Nazi propaganda just like in Soviet assemblies at Red Square. Those two dictatorships were so very similar...
You are a gullible moron, malcstag.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss Gullible moron? You really think every German film ever seen on TV with people giving the Nazi salute were all hired applauders, just how many were hired then? Hundreds of thousands, millions? Me gullible indeed.
malcstag 1 month ago
@malcstag
So you just assume that they all were for Hitler. Guilty as charged, eh?
The kzs were full of political prisoners from 1933 on. The Nazi system was one of the worst police states in the history. Many people were Nazis because they were opportunists, but some others were scared enough. And yet many risked their lives by hiding Jews & c. persecuted people.
You tell me that "wochenschau" & c. was a 'reliable' source. I don't agree with you.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss You may have a point they weren't saluting Hitler they were perhaps pointing to something behind Hitler in the sky, a bird or UFO perhaps? I know wochenschau was very embellished propaganda but was a fair reflection of how Germans viewed themselves and the world, as mentioned previously they were implicit as they let it happen, Nazi regime or not.
malcstag 1 month ago
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@malcstag "I know wochenschau was very embellished propaganda but was a fair reflection of how Germans viewed themselves and the world, as mentioned previously they were implicit as they let it happen..."
Yes, a large part of Germans viewed themselves that way under a government which did not allow any other way.
The brave Germans who opposed it were true heroes for not only were they persecuted by the evil government, but were also abandoned and ridiculed by the "liberators".
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss is a Neo Nazi Prick he makes up things and tries to pass them off as fact dumb bastard Pangloss why do you send messages to people calling them JEWISH VERMIN you twat HITLERS EVIL LITTLE HENCHMAN THAT'S THE FINNS
PanglossPuckeredButt 1 month ago
@malcstag "hired applauders, just how many were hired then? Hundreds of thousands, millions? "
Tell me in which propaganda flick you see "millions of applauders" or "hundreds of thousands" of applauders.
Use your common sense. How many people fit in a city square or football stadium? "Millions"?
Look the Nazi and Soviet propaganda flicks and compare them. They are sooo similar. They all want to persuade people to believe that they represent the whole nation.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@malcstag 'They sowed the wind they reaped a whirlwind!'
Who sowed what and who reaped what?
V.M. Spaight, secretary of Air Ministry says in his "Bombing Vindicated" (London 1944) that it was the RAF which started bombing cities.
What did the Arabs "sow" when Mesopotamian villages were bombed in the 1920s?
What did the Japanese women and children "sow" when Tokyo was firebombed & Hiroshima nuked.
What did the Vietnamese "sow" for the Christmas bombings of Hanoi? 'Agent Orange'?
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@TheMrPangloss ''V.M. Spaight, secretary of Air Ministry says in his "Bombing Vindicated" (London 1944) that it was the RAF which started bombing cities.''
Another manipulation of facts again Grossliar. The RAF were not the first to bomb cities.
It was Nazi Germany on Wielun. This has been established on these channels many times. But you continue to manipulate facts and lie. That is why you are a Nazi aplogist.
LordGodofMercy 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss It was a famous churchill saying. If I have to spell it out I will...
malcstag 1 month ago
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@malcstag "It was a famous churchill saying. If I have to spell it out I will..."
Of course you will, because you are a genuine racist and fascist.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@malcstag "It was a famous churchill saying. If I have to spell it out I will..."
Hitler would be proud of you.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@malcstag "oo bad it wasn't more effective so the krauts surrendered earlier, ..."
Well the British had abandoned the anti-Nazi resistance at the start in 1933.
How would women, children, schoolchildren, retired, enslaved workers and POWs "surrender" in a police state like the Nazi Germany? The consequences? Executions, incarcerations & c.
How would they organize a 'surrender' without their own troops and an anti-Nazi coup? I mean, children, young mothers & c.????
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
@TheMrPangloss See my first comment... nothing to stop any society from overthrowing a bad government even if its a police state.
malcstag 1 month ago
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@malcstag "See my first comment... nothing to stop any society from overthrowing a bad government even if its a police state."
How? Go to North Korea and tell that the nation is "collectively evil" because it lets Kim Il Sung's dynasty to rule.
By the way, Kim Il Sung's dynasty has killed ca. 5 million people. Who remembers them? Not you, malcstag.
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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@malcstag "unfortunately for them they turned their attention to Soviets after aborting takeover of the UK and spread themselves way too thinly."
This is typical British self flattery. 80% of the losses of Wehrmacht occurred on the eastern front.
"Then down came the iron curtain..."
This iron curtain was probably planned before the war. The purpose of ww2 was to depopulate eastern europe and to keep it in poverty and dictatorship which it did. Then down came the iron curtain..."
TheMrPangloss 1 month ago
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TheMrPangloss 2 months ago
I find it odd that a thread about BC, in its 1st thousand bomber raid, should create such hatred & for, not just BC!!! I will support BC all the way. I don't believe Harris made the right decisions! I am not being self righteous! But at the end of the day. The allies had 'Jack'!!! N.Africa......yes! Where else? Nowhere! Until D-Day. Our only 'Fight back' was Bombing Germany!! Strangely, despite our efforts,. The majority of BC sucess was after D-Day! ...But...Big up the Bomber coys!!!
martynpank 2 months ago
The MINUTE that this raid took, Germany was doomed. It was just a matter of time. The nazi cowards should have surrendered the next day, and spared the lives of all of these brave Allied young men, not to mention the nazi's own families and cities. But nazis (just like arab terrorists) suffer from moral cowardice.
joelSanFrancisco 3 months ago
@joelSanFrancisco ... meant to say ... "The MINUTE that this raid took off, Germany was doomed."
joelSanFrancisco 3 months ago
@joelSanFrancisco they tried to surrender, stupid. Look up Von Stauffenberg. He's one of 50,000 NAZIS executed BY NAZIS who tried to stop the war.
TheUSeh 3 months ago
@TheUSeh Stauffenberg was not a Nazi.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheUSeh "He's one of 50,000 NAZIS executed BY NAZIS who tried to stop the war."
It was the Wehrmacht which tried to stop the war, and a faction inside it. They were no Nazis. The army had even some earlier attempts to kill Hitler and stop the war. Even before the war the army and a group of German industrialists attempted Hitler's life for they deemed him dangerous for Germany's future. They were damn right.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Just 4 da record. There were 42 (of what i know) attempts on Hitlers life! I am not taking sides. It is a fact!
.......Stauffenberg was a Nazi (He had no choice!)......But he was anti Hitler!
martynpank 2 months ago
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TheMrPangloss 2 months ago
YEP! This idiot of Panglos love Hitler!
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Bruno53ification "YEP! This idiot of Panglos love Hitler!"
No, it is you who loves Hitler, not me. You really NEED him for when you are totally drained of ideas you try to use the "Nazi card" against unpleasant posts.
You love the international war industry complex. Just FYI, Hitler was a creation of the war industry complex.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification "You, Pangloss make people laugh!"
You called me a Nazi Apologist believing that I would "behave''. That is, you knew so bloody well that I was not one. I just posted something that was unpleasant enough to call me names. I did something right then. You are just another nonentity and self righteous git.
And I can clearly see that you are at the verge of bitterness when you respond. Nothing could be further from "laughter" than that.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
Sure, sure, Mr Panglos. Guess you don't have a mirror and see who is the one living in denial. Guess 99% of professional historians, and those who really witnessed these incidents decades ago, and now very old and dying, also lived "in a denial". You, Pangloss make people laugh!
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
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TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification "Guess 99% of professional historians..."
In Carroll Quigley's "Anglo Saxon Establishment" it is well explained how propaganda is backed up and more honest and impartial history writing put down when it doesn't serve certain groups of interest.
Sorry to say, but that is PROPAGANDA. Scientific value is NOT IN COMPLACENCY and PERCENTAGE but in the effort of getting as close to the truth as is possible with the data available.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
But with revisionists, and possible neonazis, people take the risk not learning the mistakes of the past. They support the war the Nazis committed, they "excuse" the crimes they committed. They "criticize" with hypocrisy the other countries' imperialism, yet "excuse" the one Hitler had in plan. Me? I hate wars and imperialism even from USA. I criticise USA for the wars it brought to Vietnam and now Middle East. You cannot accuse me of "hypocrisy". I am honest.
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
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TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification "But with revisionists, and possible neonazis, people take the risk not learning the mistakes of the past. "
Brainwash? Yes. When you get an unpleasant response you call the poster a "revisionist" or "neonazi".
"They "criticize" with hypocrisy the other countries' imperialism,..."
So you tell the other the definition of hypocrisy while you yourself live in total denial.
I call you "Big Brother Who Watches" because you curb the constitutional rights of expression.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification "I hate wars and imperialism even from USA. I criticise USA for the wars it brought to Vietnam and now Middle East. You cannot accuse me of "hypocrisy". I am honest."
No, you are not honest. You are ready for libel when somebody disagrees with you.
The question of Germany is too complicated for you. You WANT to see THE ENTIRE NATION AS VILLAINS. There are many crappy historians who side this view BECAUSE THE ALLIED NEEDED SUCH A POLITICAL DOCTRINES FOR DECADES AFTER THE WAR.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification
We do agree that Hitler was a villain and we DO AGREE that the Nazis were racist, criminals & c.
But there are inconsistencies in the main stream written history which you don't want to hear. Victor's history is understandable, but it is POLITICAL IN NATURE AND IT PROTECTS ALL THOSE WHO IN THEIR TURN COMMITTED CRIMES.
The ww2 is the dirtiest chapter in the history, SO DON'T TRY TO LIE THAT THE ALLIED DID IT ALL IN AN ALTRUISTIC MANNER.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
And British Empire did ugly things. Much the British had decades to think about it, and at least they accept the mistakes. And that empire is now history. Like Nazi Germany is history now.
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
Mr Panglos "ignored" how his "hero" Hitler attacked without provocation neutral countries like Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg first, besides attacking France and England. Hitler KNEW Britain and France will declare war if he attacked Poland. They gave him the warnings. And we are not talking what Mr Harris did in the 1920s. Don't change the subject.
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
You "revisionists" make me "sick".
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
There is no such thing as a "clean war". Seem to forget that the Nazis were the ones who started terror bombing! Read how the bomb Poland and Rotterdam before the Allies decided to "play rough" with these guys.
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification "Seem to forget that the Nazis were the ones who started terror bombing! "
The RAF bombed Kurd and Arab villagers in the early 1920s using white phosphorus. Young Arthur "Bomber" Harris wrote a memo in 1924 where he stated that a handful of aircraft could easily destroy several villages in 45 minutes and kill a third of their population, affecting the "morale". Thus this was an early form of terror bombing and the RAF practiced it in India as well.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
You start a war, don't complain when they come to firebomb and nuke you later!
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
You atart a war, don't complain when they come to firebomb and nuke you later!
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
EXCUSE ME!! Instead of hypocritically "criticizing" RAF Field Mashall "Bomber" Harris for airfirebombing Nazi Germany, why don't you criticize Adolf Hitler for causing World War II IN THE FIRST PLACE??? St-p-d hypocrites neonazis!
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification "Nazi Germany, why don't you criticize Adolf Hitler for causing World War II IN THE FIRST PLACE??? "
He WAS an aggressor ,and his government was evil. However, ...
(1) He attacked Poland ... WITH STALIN.
(2) Britain and France declared war and attacked German - not vice versa. This is just the truth, not that anybody would symphatize Hitler's evil government.
(3) CHURCHILL EXPLICITLY SAID THAT IT WAS A WAR AGAINST GERMANY which means a war against Hitler's opponents as well.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
Cowardly scum all captured terror raid gangsters should have been hanged for murder of children oap's and women
BarryCFCOK 3 months ago
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TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@BarryCFCOK It was your "hero" Adolf Hitler who caused World War II! Nazi Germany caused World War II and the Allies forced to give the Nazi Germans their "thanks" by airfirebombing it!
Bruno53ification 3 months ago
@Bruno53ification My hero how did we arrive at that chum? seeing an injustice is not having a hero and there was nothing heroic about bombing schools, hospitals, old peoples homes and church's whilst hiding behind the channel waiting for the americans to come and win another European war. The point I am attempting to make is that Germans where put on a show trial for doing mass murder but the victors where not.
BarryCFCOK 3 months ago
Come off it TheMrPangloss. Conspiracy theory requires no intellectual ability at all. All you need is a deep dislike of whomever or whatever you see as perpetrator. In your case it is the US and Britain. And then you have to make the ‘facts’ fit your theory. Your problem is that none of your ‘evidence’ actually proves your point. Sutton does not prove the UK funded Hitler. Bacque does not prove Eisenhower Killed 1 5000 000 German POW’s.
LordGodofMercy 3 months ago
@LordGodofMercy "Conspiracy theory requires no intellectual ability at all."
You don't know even how to google, you have to ask your buddies to do that. You don't know how refer to sources. What are you to speak about intellectual ability? Explaining you what is intellectual is like trying to play music to a deaf person or humor to a complete saddo.
"Your problem is that none of your ‘evidence’ actually proves your point. "
I have proven my points well, for your displeasure.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@LordGodofMercy "And then you have to make the ‘facts’ fit your theory. Your problem is that none of your ‘evidence’ actually proves your point. Sutton does not prove the UK funded Hitler. Bacque does not prove Eisenhower Killed 1 5000 000 German POW’s."
Then prove his statements wrong. You know his works and he has used, e.g.,recently declassified KGB archiives as source.
You are not able to prove him wrong. He has many honest and impartial colleagues who sopport him in this. Wiki doesn't.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
Bombing a city is terrible! If i was a german i would never forget the americans who bombed civillians with the hundredthousands per bombingraid!!!
The victor writes history, the loser is asked nothing.
EpicRandomDude 3 months ago
@EpicRandomDude It's unfortunate that you feel that way. It's not good to hold grudges over multiple generations. Large scale air raids on population centers were terrible, but that was a terrible war. At some point, well before this raid, both sides decided these attacks were either acceptable or unavoidable. Just look at the London blitz. The allies were not solely to blame for the nature of the air war.
Oh, and this raid was RAF. No Americans in this particular raid.
NoOne3234 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "Large scale air raids on population centers were terrible, but that was a terrible war. "
Why was then the Nuremberg trial arranged in the first place if all wholesale violations of international agreements were allowed in a "total war"?
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "At some point, well before this raid, both sides decided these attacks were either acceptable or unavoidable. "
"Revenge" is not a military term. It is rather a confession of committing a war crime in an international court. Whenever a "revenge" occurs in a war, it is POLITICAL in nature.
There is NO EXCUSE of targeting homes with women and children. Moreover both U.S. and U.K. planned their four-engine bombers in the inter war period, to target homes with women and children.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheMrPangloss It's all very nice to restrict war to a very specific demographic and say that their deaths are acceptable under the rules of war, but conscripting men of a certain age and sending them off to die by the millions like they did in WWI is an atrocity in itself. What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?
NoOne3234 3 months ago
War on this scale is an atrocity and, by its very nature, there is a retaliatory aspect to it. A nation confronted with total has a responsibility to its inhabitants to respond in kind until they are no longer threatened.
That said, I am far less comfortable with later war raids in Europe or the strategic bombing of (a more or less defeated) Japan than with this particular raid on Cologne. In 1942, the Germans were far from defeated.
NoOne3234 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?"
That is a good question. By justifying the indiscriminate bombings of civilians you also justify the ethnic cleansings committed by the SS in White Russia and Ukraine.
Be aware that I am happy that the Nazis are seen as criminals. Why thenshould I accept any other powers who behave like them? The RAF / USAAC campaigns against housing, hospitals, schools & c. was a war crime.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?"
What difference does it make if soldiers line up civilians and strafe them with machine gun or if they drop air mines and gasoline jelly in their suburbs causing fire storms which could melt even steel?
There is no difference. In both cases the goal is not of military nature by politically motivated annihilation or mass murder
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Strategic bombing, like the use of submarines, had military advantages recognized by both sides. Without the presence of ground forces, bombers could destroy rail yards, refineries, factories, and dockyards, depriving the enemy of supplies and other resources. Like submarine warfare, however, strategic bombing is indiscriminate and will result in civilian casualties. This distinguishes it from ground warfare, where mass civilian deaths are avoidable.
NoOne3234 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 This isn't to say that Strategic bombing is not an atrocity (it is), but when one side exploits this method of warfare, it is unreasonable for the other not to. This is not a blanket endorsement of strategic bombing and I have already mentioned several allied actions that I do not agree with.
NoOne3234 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "This isn't to say that Strategic bombing is not an atrocity (it is), but when one side exploits this method of warfare, it is unreasonable for the other not to."
Really? Many scholars agree that the terror bombings against civilians were counterproductive.
(1) They squandered resources which could have been used in a more reasonable way.
(2) They stiffened the resistance. Instead of breaking the "morale", it made even those who were hostile to the Nazi government adaptable.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Strategic bombing is not synonymous with terror bombing, rather terror bombing is a subset of strategic bombing. You have admitted the effectiveness of "precision" bombing of high value targets, which is a critical objective in strategic bombing.
The effectiveness of terror bombing is debatable, but when I look at the USAAF's strategic bombing of Japan, I am inclined to believe that it's effective when undertaken at a sufficiently large scale.
NoOne3234 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "The effectiveness of terror bombing is debatable, but when I look at the USAAF's strategic bombing of Japan, I am inclined to believe that it's effective when undertaken at a sufficiently large scale. "
There are dip[lomatic f sources which indicate that Japan was ready for peace already in May 1945, and the nukes were dropped in August 1945. The Manhattan Project recommended an uninhabited area instead of a city. Seems rather that the war industry wanted to test the weapon on civs.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Ready for peace in May '45....Maybe you can tell me why they were still fighting ferociously on Okinawa until mid-June?
osalcido85 3 months ago
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@osalcido85 Do you read my posts at all?
The article with references:
Chris Morton "Humanist" August 7 2005: "The Japanese offered to surrender before America dropped Atomic Bombs on them!"
Will you google it yourself and read it to understand why I posted what I posted, or shall I quote the essential here with the first hand sources?
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Why are we limiting our discussion to nukes? A major firebombing raid has the same immediate death toll and scale of destruction. Intensive firebombing was used prior to May 1945. A single raid in March killed roughly 100,000 people and destroyed 16 square miles of Tokyo. Your argument for the ineffectiveness of terror bombing ignores the fact (often forgotten) that the two nukes were only the tip of the iceberg in that bombing campaign.
NoOne3234 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "Why are we limiting our discussion to nukes?"
I did not intend to limit the discussion to nukes, but I must point out that the two nukes are logical continuation of the firebombing.
And just like the firebombing, we are lied to about their nature. Firstly, they were not at all necessary from a military point of view, secondly, they did not "help to stop the war sooner" and, thirdly, the civilian deaths was their primary aim, not a "collateral" loss.
It all was product development.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
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@NoOne3234 Read the following article including its references:
Chris Morton "Humanist" August 7 2005:
"The Japanese offered to surrender before America dropped Atomic Bombs on them!"
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "Without the presence of ground forces, bombers could destroy rail yards, refineries, factories, and dockyards, depriving the enemy of supplies and other resources."
A relevant point, the USAAC daylight bombings against oil refineries was decisive.
But the governments lied to us ordinary citizens. The so-called "strategic bombing" was tested immediately after ww1 in Iraq, and thr four-engine bombers in the 30s. The goal was to kill as many civilians as possible on the ground.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "... bombers could destroy rail yards, refineries, factories, and dockyards, depriving the enemy of supplies and other resources... strategic bombing is indiscriminate and will result in civilian casualties. "
There was the so-called Dehousing Plan which was lobbied through in the War Cabinet in 1942, and the air war directively where civilians were targeted already in 1940, was rendered really murderous.
That's why it was NOT COLLATERAL. The killing of civs was the principal goal.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
@NoOne3234 "What makes their lives any less valuable than the ones remaining at home?" Numerous international ratified, signed and agreed conventions and agreements, to protect for example the retired, new born babies, schoolchildren & c.
I an SS squadron takes over a school and machineguns the children, it is not the responsibility of the Soviet govt. Similarly, if the RAF bombs a church during a mass killing those who attend the service, it is the responsibility of the RAF.
TheMrPangloss 3 months ago
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@NoOne3234 ''Oh, and this raid was RAF. No Americans in this particular raid.''
The USAAF did participate in this raid. They Bombed Dresden the day after the RAF
LordGodofMercy 3 months ago
Elberiver is Pangloss in Drag She is so slack her piss flaps drag on the floor
TheYellowbellyfins 3 months ago
So Elberiverscum these are your words. Are you one of Anders Behring Breiviks unhinged, lunatic Neo Nazi soul mates? Your thoughts are chillingly similar
“The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is our own European politicians who BRING THEM IN. These multi-culti politicians are traitors.
We must
A) stop paying social benefit to Islam immigrants
B) deport those who commit crimes
C) remove the traitors from our governments and indict them for high treason.”
Elberiver11 4 month ago
LordGodofMercy 3 months ago
Do you know how many planes Germans lost in russian front? Over 77 thousands!! This is why you could to fly unpunished over III Reich and massacre harmless peoples who fought in White Race name! Now, you have got Tottenham, London and man others funny places... :)
religiofob 3 months ago
Pangloss Nazi Slut
MissyPANGLOSS 4 months ago
@MissyPANGLOSS Arthur Harris was a genocidal killer and a coward.
Elberiver11 3 months ago
@Elberiver11 Ah! Elberiver. YT's resident Neo Nazi.
LordGodofMercy 3 months ago
@LordGodofMercy is a British NAZI account. He votes the racist BNP and he adores British Nazi Nick Griffin.
He hates Germans, Blacks, Jews, Africans, Asians, He wants to exterminate all foreigners. WARNING - this man is a racist and a Britsh BNP-voting Nazi.
Elberiver11 3 months ago
@Elberiver11 What a pathetc Neo Nazi you are!
LordGodofMercy 3 months ago
Just a visit! Hi all! Hi Pang! Hi the Pro Allies!! Hope you R all good! Just 4 the record, I am pro-allies. But, I understand the other side!! .............HS, I am disappointed, re FB!!!! A nice chat wud have been ace!!!!
martynpank 4 months ago
Pangloss call my brother Jewish VERMIN you Nazi Arse Wipe Pangloss you COCK SUCKER
yogifalkmybitch 4 months ago
WARNING - @yogifalkmybitch is a British NAZI account. He votes the racist BNP and he adores British Nazi Nick Griffin.
He hates Germans, Blacks, Jews, Africans, Asians, He wants to exterminate all foreigners. WARNING - this man is a racist and a Britsh BNP-voting Nazi.
Elberiver11 3 months ago
@Elberiver11 Why do you like BUGGERING BOYS
yogifalkmybitch 3 months ago
If you want to know how Cologne looked before the bombing, check out my picture-collection on /watch?v=-1s4WvmTmGE
rebuildcologne 4 months ago
Pangloss The monkey pumping Nazi Turd Check the Nazi freak out on twitter
yogifalkmybitch 5 months ago
Can I restart this thread with a question that I do not want to be answered in a negative way?
OK? In 1942, Britain was in N.Africa. Where else? Nowhere! So, were Britain supposed to lay back & enjoy the prev Luftwaffe bombing? No. Britain wanted revenge 4 London, Coventry et al! Lovely 2 sit back, but, there was a war on!! Should we have just sat back & watched our Country dying? Of the anti-bombing people out there, I don't think U no how the Brit people work!!!
martynpank 5 months ago
I'm thinking, if we all accept our viewpoints on the bombing campaign, then we can discuss, rather than argue!
martynpank 5 months ago
@TheMrPamglosss TheMrPangloss has his views, of which we have talked at length about. But, 4 U to have the name 'TheMrPamglosss' that is so similar, is so disrespectful! I don't agree with his views, but to perpetrate to be him is so wrong! I'm pro allies, all the way, but to copy his name & dis him is not the best way for him to understand our point of view! In a way, you are just as bad as his views! I'm sorry, but, I would really like this site 2 discuss on a more intellectual level!
martynpank 5 months ago
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TheMrPangloss is it true you like little boys bums ? you Nazi freak
Piss4Pangloss 6 months ago
TheMrPangloss Why are you posting ALL JEWS ARE VERMIN ? Why did Finland hand over to the Gestapo on the 6th November 1942 8 Jewish people to be murdered ? Come on you Nazi Apologist tongue twisting toe tapping brown nosed Nazi gimp lets see you lies once again you Anti Semitic prick
TheMrBlockTheHood 6 months ago
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TheMrPangloss Nazi Apologist twat
yogifalkmybitch 6 months ago
Pang- The 5% is this- 'The fact that he targeted Russian intellectuals was again for the Anglo-U.S. benefit.'.
martynpank 6 months ago
@martynpank The goal of the Anglo-U.S. capital in the 1890s was to curb the rise of Germany as an economical power and to prevent Germany and Russia from finding their mutual interests. That would have challenged the British Empire. In the U.S. the economical cricles wanted to prevent the Russians to use effectively their large natural resources (largest in the world) and to increase in prosperity.
TheMrPangloss 6 months ago
@TheMrPangloss Thanks 4 the 'Heads up'. I can't prove that you R correct, but, it's nice to know your opinion., Respect!
martynpank 6 months ago
This claim about Eisenhower’s death camps is lifted from a conspiracy nut (anonymous author) google: rense. This is basically a site dedicated to all sorts of conspiracy nonsense particularly claiming old chestnuts like Jewish bankers control the world, Obama’s birth certificate isn’t real etc.... In reality there is no evidence that 1 500,000 German POW’s were deliberately starved to death by US forces. Period (As they say in the US)
wagonhead 6 months ago