Huh. I could have figured this, but have never engaged in any such game long enough to see for myself. Of course I'm monumentally self-centered, so I have little need to prove myself to others, which is the basis for playing such games. Or it could be my profound laziness. Either way games of this type couldn't interest me less.
@azmanabdula Haha, yes in one sitting and I did in fact go to bed shortly afterwards (around 2.30am I think). I was undergoing gargantuan task of tidying my room and had the videos on in the background. Or at least that's what I had intended... it soon turned to watching the videos and tidying my room in the background.
Ah I know some YouTube users who follow me around (you know who you are, assassassa ;) ) and play-fit nicely into plenty of the scenarios exposed here.
Well let's see how long he can keep it up. I am tempted, however, to just reply to him with this video's URL...
@Ital21 Ah the stalking game — an impotent individual gets an illusion of importance by provoking a reaction. A few years ago, a stalker started following me on a couple of videos I'd liked/favourited, trying to engage me in their fantasy. So I filtered out notifications. Dropped by some of my favourites the other month and saw a load of comments they'd left years ago. It was sad. All that effort, saying they knew they were getting to me — not knowing I was oblivious to them the whole time.
@bersaba Nope, the video says the reverse: more time to react in online games — don't have to reply to a comment immediately; more often have to react in the moment in face-to-face offline games, in the flow of conversation. You can of course break those face-to-face conversations up — after every single response from the other person, you can go away, consider your response and come back. Bit stilted, but possible.
That's my point, you don't "have more time to react in online games", you can always pause the game. Online games (say a MMO) you generally have to react to the boss fight as it happens.
Maybe I'm missing something here. Regardless, it's got nothing to do with the video which I think is about a ShockOfGod "debate"
@TheraminTrees One of the users you were talking to brings up a topic I was curious about. The youtube user Shockofgod is famous for being very rude, dishonest and disingenuous. I have had some conversations with him and I can tell he was trying to provoke me, of course I fell into it. If you are familiar with him I was curious to hear what kind of game is that. It would be great to have a real world example to apply these principles to.
@thesparitan The behaviour you describe sounds like common-or-garden trolling. The troll gets a morbid pleasure from fucking people around. They can be trolled back or ignored or run dry, etc. — the only mistake is to care, which is what the trolling game is designed to make you do.
@TheraminTrees Best sign someone knows what they are talking about is when they admit they don't something. I will do some more reading I guess and thanks for your help. I will go back to watching the rest of the series, its very informative.
Interesting, TT. In my experience debate has little to do with an exchange of ideas (specifically meaning that both debaters are honestly comprehending the others ideas and arguments with the potential that their viewpoint may actually be changed in the process) and more to do with persuasions in consideration of an audience.
We both know that persuasion is an entirely different animal from a truth concept although, that can play a part but not nearly often enough for my interests.
I've noticed I've gotten very "knee-jerk" around certain arguments. Though generally I'm surprised at how civil YT has been to me. I pull the plug quickly on certain things, but it's a rare occurrence.
Bigotry is the one thing that really gets my goat. That and being an arse for no reason. It's hard for me to differentiate "being an arse" and "being sarcastic" sometimes. Sarcasm doesn't always translate well in "text." But I do try. ;-D
@Xoroaster Thank you Mr Roaster ;8) It's great YT's been civil to you — that seems so exotic. I think I became quite desensitised early on with all the hate and death threats — perversely, I tend to be more shocked by civility these days. Yes, written sarc-arse-m is quite an art isn't it. Some folks don't seem to realise that sarcasm works because of the juxtaposition of sincere-seeming words and cynical delivery — they think sincere-seeming words are enough. Real geniuses aren't they.
@TheraminTrees lolz, too true. I recently cut off a guy on his first post. Thought he was giving me the "you're an anti-jewish bigot" number. I launched all my missiles, and banished the dude to the Youtube wastelands. But, back channels brought me back in contact with him. Turns out he was just being an A-hole. Who knew? ;-D
If we all had the long flowing hair and psychic powers of Spiritualist Sap, this would all be simpler. ;-D
please, we need to take your dna and preserve it for the future generations!
Btw, I would be interested in wheter you make use of you analytical mind elsewhere in your life. In a job for example? Also, have you written any books or would you care to someday?
Particuarly recognisable was "Dimestore Freud". Almost as soon as I heard the word "psychology" at school I was struck by the way in which most of those interested were so busy being convinced they understood all things about all people that they had no time to actually observe or understand anything!
@mrlomton - I think that has been a rather classic problem of those who are interested in the field.
I wonder if it persists in some of those who might have obtained degrees, or even have gone so far as to be working in the field? (Do you think so?)
People seem to readily accept answers from those they deem as authority figures; and it seems to me, that having intimate access to a persons thoughts and feelings does rather put you in a position of power over them, by the very nature of it.
All of the suggested archetypes here are unnervingly familiar!
Many youtube comment sections seem to rapidly collapse into childish and vulgar personal attacks, which in many cases involve attacks on people's sexuality or stupid racism. Nice to see it called out and so accurately described!
While I don't do much debating online, several of my close relations (and some casual acquaintances) seem to enjoy the roles of Shoulda Coulda Buddha and Dimestore Freud. I must say it's pretty satisfying to have such amusing names for them. However I find there's no really satisfying way to end a situation like that so you don't leave feeling irritated. Perhaps I should try quietly sneaking out a door next time ;)
On a large scale, that sounds like "Astroturfing". "Sock puppets" is the term, I believe, for use on individual fora, like Youtube comments or an on-line bulletin board. They can also be used to create fake controversy and strawmen.
As much as I agree with your arguments, I disagree with the ones concerning psychologists. There are facts such as the related cases in Jon Carlson's book "The mummy at the dinning table" where 2/3 of the psychologists written in the book have empathised with their patients in a way that they ended up treating them by having genuine relationships with them and dissolving the psychologist/client relationship rather than superficially claiming they know what their patients think.
for a lot of people unfortunately, any debate whether digital or tangible, seem to be nothing more than a popularity contest. An honest debate (in my opinion) should lead the exchange of ideas to a point where two SME's resolve their differences and solidify a subject which has been ambiguous.
@destin325 I tend to agree — there seems to be so little disciplined enquiry, establishing valid premises and justifications, and such a welter of bluster and rhetoric.
@destin325 'SME's resolve their differences and solidify a subject which has been ambiguous.' Ambiguity is part of life. It makes us think about things, position ourselves and perhaps rethink some of these positions. Solidification is a wish a bit like going towards singularity or a unified theory in science or monotheism (really part of our Judeo-Christian culture). No escape from our cultural training. LOL. Life is fluid. Sometimes you position yourself. Sometimes you let go.
Wonderful as usual! The painting was a particularly graphic illustration (haha) of the point you were making. I had an immediate impression - which was totally my assumption - about the people in the painting. They aren't even people; they're just images! It shows how deeply rooted our profiles and assumptions are, and how easy it is to take them for granted. If you hadn't been making the point that we create usually unfounded theories about people, I wouldn't have noticed I was doing it.
@ReligiousFiction Hey ;8) Thanks — I'm glad that came through. I think it's always more powerful when you can observe yourself doing the particular thing that's being described. Me and Qualia are in the middle of the 'Why live' response. Music and script complete, animation half done. So hopefully in time for xmas, free time permitting! Thanks for your patience ;8)
@TheraminTrees No worries! There's no time horizon on your response. I'm just honored you guys are making one!
To further how well you made your point, I had paused the video exactly at that painting when my husband came in. Incredulously, he asked, 'WHAT kind of video are you watching?!' Then I explained to him that you'd just been explaining the snap judgments we make. We thought it was hilarious!
Great video! I witnessed firsthand some of the games played on Youtube. Is it just me or is it usually the creationist who initiates the debate (hence the game) with no intention of following through with it? hrnmm...shockofgod....hrmmmphh....
@JoshwithaJ ShockofGod especially, there's no reasoning with that wackjob. Nephilim just blocks you from the start. Shock on the other hand arrogantly chooses to block you, then posts something in response to your statement on a video or on your channel... knowing you can't reply.
@JoshwithaJ Even when a debate happens, it's still often so chockfull of game-playing fallacious rhetoric rather than honest disciplined arguments, that to call it a 'debate' is dubious in itself.
All of these "games" are all what trolls do. They will mess with people, on purpose, just to piss the other "players" off because the trolls find it amusing. It's only a game to the assholes that start them.
Now that I finally got a working program that connects my computer to US proxy servers (I am one of the unfortunate viewers from Germany) and had the chance to watch this video, I just have this to say: Brilliant!
@lizzy310589 Thanks. I still don't know why there was/is a block on the video for viewers in Germany. It seems to be completely random. Hopefully it won't happen again.
This series mentions a second addendum, apparently about religion, but it does not seem to exist. Given that this series isn't brand new, the apparent spacing between the existing videos in the TA series, my guess at the content of that video, and the theist tendency to flag out of existence videos that meet with their disapproval, I wonder if you lost that video in that manner. If so, is there any mirror or other copy left around that I might be able to watch? I'm quite interested in seeing it.
@renegade4dio The second and final addendum is yet to come. I'd planned to get it finished a few weeks ago but personal/professional life has sucked up my free time of late. It's now planned for the next 3 days.
I just found you, TheraminTrees and QualiaSoup and I am astonished by the videos! I'm from Slovakia and I sometimes experience problems understanding videos. Nevertheless, the voice you use, articulation, and words you use are very clear and comprehensible to me. Your great logic and creativity makes me think, if you could have something to say about humour and comedy! I've looked for books or videos about humour, its fundamentals or patterns, but I just can't find anything or figure it out!
@MimKoRn Thanks! And glad you find our videos clear/comprehensible. Humour's a fascinating subject — and theories of humour abound: Benign Violation Theory [BVT], Ontic-Epistemic Theory of the Comic [OETC], Superiority theory, Misattribution theory, Freud's Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious, etc, etc. But I've merely browsed these theories — never taken any time to organise my own thoughts on the issues.
@BaileysBeads I'm not a bit surprised — the psychological payoffs, whatever they are, are clearly providing a format that seems worth investing his time in, time and time again.
Interesting video. I can see how I have fallen into these games in the past. Why just yesterday I sent a PM to AronRa on facebook to ask about the evolutionary tree of Hyenas, but I mentioned that part of the reason I asked was one of my therian friends who told me that Hyenas were actually related to cats that got me interested in doing more research. Even though it wasn't relevant to the conversation and it could have been done without, I still mentioned that my friend was a therian anyway.
I was wondering where you would recommend I go to find more about TA, games and Gimmicks, I realize I spend too much time agonizing over simple games I play and don't want to.
In one of the first video's you mentioned a book, would that be a good place to start, or would you recommend something else?
@mahua82 Thanks. I've wanted to put that line out there for a while. It's a cringeworthy spectacle watching some people 'diagnose' all kinds of spurious convoluted motivations, childhood experiences, etc., in others, and congratulate themselves on their psychological 'savvy' — having confused 'analysing' with rationalising. I used to say, 'Well you're no psychologist but you could be a great writer.' But even that was untrue — their cliche-ridden theories tend to resemble bad TV.
@TheraminTrees Cringeworthy is the word! These days when I'm faced with pseudo analyses of the sort I make it a point to confront the propounders and (humbly) point out the presence of subjectivity and bollock-ness in their opinion. I've experienced that this is one way of curbing it a little - letting people know that their precious solutions, much contrary to their personal views about them, are most often not even worthy of contemplation.
I find it very interesting how the internet has provided a new kind of playing field for games. While they are fundamentally the same as 'real life' games, there are elements (like the ones you've pointed out in this video) that only present themselves online. Are you thinking of dealing with any more online topics (like online dating or cyber bullying, etc)?
"MASTURBATION". THATS WHAT I SAID! BUT WITH DIFFERENT SEXUAL ANALOGIES. HES SUCKING HIS OWN DICK, HES SUCKING HIS DICK, SAUSAGE FEST, CIRCLE JERKING. CALLING EVERYONE GAY WHILE DESCRIBING VIVID HOMOSEXUAL FANTASIES. I TRIED THAT IN SCHOOL ON THE DEBATE TEAM BUT I GOT KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL. I GUESS I GOT AN EARLY GRADUATION BECAUSE LIKE YOU THEY HAVENT CAUGHT UP TO OUR ADVANCED COLLEGE FRAT BOY WAY OF THINKING YET. OR ELEMENTARY GRADE SCHOOL STUDENT. RIGHT YOUR BRITISH, "PRIMARY" SCHOOL STUDENT.
As always, very interesting and insightful. I am sure I will find this very useful in my relationships, especially with my family. Thank you for all your hard work in producing these.
The one thing I don't quite understand in this video is what you describe as "[responding] from free child, and [having] some fun" and "responding spontaneously." I believe this has to do with responding from other parent-child-adult states, as described in the Games video, but I'm just not quite sure what it would look like.
Excellent as always. I'm glad you found the Nephilim/Don debate incident useful.
This video is a great addition to the series; I felt like one thing the series was lacking before was a larger number of concrete examples of games, especially ones we've experienced in day-to-day life. I saw the Neph/Don thing going on, and I had a personal experience with a Dimestore Freud, who was actually a very unhelpful professional therapist.
I really appreciate your videos. Have you ever considered making one about propaganda in the media? Something which exposes the methods of influence and belief change in marketing and politics (or religion)? I have looked at some, but I am certain you could add something meaningful to the mix. Thank you.
Hah. I'm guilty of these things at some points in my life (the Shoulda Woulda Buddha thing and the Challenger thing). Although I felt I was acting poorly, now this video gives some clarity and elaboration into what I was doing. Thanks a lot for the lesson!
One other game I've personally noticed both in person and on tv is when one person begins to make a valid point and the other (who can see where it is headed) starts to talk over the first. Bill O'Rielly is infamous for this.
It is the equivalant of a temper tantrum and isn't really debating but a controlling monologue. Still it's a strategy that can be difficult to overcome to the uninitiated. If attempting to shame the controller doesn't work I'll keep talking regardless or else walk away.
Again Theramin, I can't thank you enough for these TA videos. They're realling giving an insight into things that people like me have trouble understanding.
@variablast 'The field can filter out important stuff if you put too thick a firewall up.'
—For me, it's not so much of a firewall — in fact it's probably the opposite, something more like a magnifying glass. A detachment, with a view to looking at what's presented with as few preconceptions as possible: dealing with what's there.
What you've shown seems true to the repeating forms of arguement that I've witnessed online. That it falls in nicely with your other videos is cool.
My problem is this: I'm not an experienced debater or one who could catch this kind of thinking right away. If I start to engage with these types I find their strategy will continuously change and a novice like me won't be armed to properly deal with them. I find myself withdrawing quicker because the frustration simply isn't worth the effort.
@updownleftrightinout con't....but if I walk away from the discussion not only have I felt like I "lost" but I know I've empowered the culprit by not being able to counter his weak games. They come out being able to tell themselves and others how their thinking trumped anothers when it's absolutely not true.
But I know I shouldn't care about that - yet I find it so, so annoying.
@updownleftrightinout The 'butterflying' behaviour you describe, darting around without following things through, is something I've found irksome. I started refusing to move on to the next point if the previous one hadn't been addressed — and draw it back to that point. If the point doesn't get addressed, the conversation goes no further, and I make it clear why. My interest in game-players genuinely evaporates very quickly because they're behaviour's just so boring.
@TheraminTrees I just had a pretty weird thought and had to ask your opinion.What do you think the possibility is of an internet based government?I appreciate the technicalities of such an operation, but the idea of the world being ruled by the majority of people who have access to the largest amount of information (coupled with what James Surowieki says in The Wisdom of Crowds) seems almost utopian.Randomly select the jurors for every decision and, statistically, they would make the best choice
I love the idea of the Coulda Shoulda Buddha! I have a severe chronic illness that seems to tempt people into this particular game. People want to help and give advice, and often the Coulda Shoulda Buddha gains a lot of sympathy from other healthy people. It's frustrating and incredibly isolating.
Your video shows a fantastic way to talk about it. I'll tell people about Coulda Shoulda Buddha next time I encounter it. It's funny enough to do so without being offensive, and true. Absolutely true.
@thewildplaces Thanks thewildplaces. I think sometimes, when things aren't critical, Coulda Shoulda Buddha can even be amusing — the dim-witted comments delivered with the 'wise' pose can be quite comical. But when things are at life and death proportions, defences are depleted, and you need all your emotional reserves, I think it can be one of the most provocative games going.
@TheraminTrees Thank you for replying! I agree, and because it's such a provocative game it's extremely difficult to defuse. People can get offended or even angry if their "wisdom" is unrecognised. Of course, particular nasty, isolating or disappointing experiences with Coulda Shoulda Buddhas do linger in my mind, especially if the person keeps playing this role.
I tend to bite my lip but your videos are very helpful in thinking about how to deal with it, and let go of it too. Thanks again!
I tend to believe that the best response always is to either a) calmly and rationally (and publicly) explaining how the other person is in error and offering them the chance to rectify the problem, or b) just ignoring the asshole.
@Leonis1989 I believe that was the case in the DonExodus2/Nephilimfree case — though the version in this video is a distillation, rather than an exclusive direct comment on that case.
sometimes I just like to say "shut up you're wrong" and not make my argument since it takes a decent bit of effort to express the argument and they aren't gonna listen anyway.
Your video's in my subscription box is always a welcome sight. I keep looking for something in one of your videos I want to engage you in, yet the best I can come up with is, GREAT VIDEO! as always.
I will say this, the start was a bit confusing. took a moment to catch that you were discussing forums just like this. (online/offline) It didn't take long, and perhaps I should read discriptions more.
so the internet is a game... then who is the final boss?
doombybbr 2 weeks ago
@doombybbr dude, seriously?
SOPA!
the end of the game.....
azmanabdula 3 days ago
Why are there naked women in the related videos?
onthespoke2 2 weeks ago
Huh. I could have figured this, but have never engaged in any such game long enough to see for myself. Of course I'm monumentally self-centered, so I have little need to prove myself to others, which is the basis for playing such games. Or it could be my profound laziness. Either way games of this type couldn't interest me less.
Snakepliskinist 2 weeks ago
i play youtube snake to this
melomanfamilyguy 1 month ago
Just watched the whole series, was very interesting, thanks.
OliverUnderTheMoon 1 month ago
@OliverUnderTheMoon now go to bed, that brain needs much rest,
"Just watched the whole series"
in one sitting?
azmanabdula 3 days ago
@azmanabdula Haha, yes in one sitting and I did in fact go to bed shortly afterwards (around 2.30am I think). I was undergoing gargantuan task of tidying my room and had the videos on in the background. Or at least that's what I had intended... it soon turned to watching the videos and tidying my room in the background.
OliverUnderTheMoon 2 days ago
@OliverUnderTheMoon lol!
i need to clean my room, maybe i should eat some coffee beans...(joking)
azmanabdula 1 day ago
thanks for posting this i like this information , i learn something
TheRbush23 1 month ago
Damn you rock so hard :) Why did I only sub you today...
bary1234 1 month ago
@bary1234 better late than never.
treehugrurthluvrsupr 1 month ago
how did i get here
alissahmoniz 1 month ago
i came here to play a game...
MikeTehV 2 months ago
Why am i watching this???
SilverRathalos1000 2 months ago
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SHIT!!!!!
didhedieds 2 months ago
Ah I know some YouTube users who follow me around (you know who you are, assassassa ;) ) and play-fit nicely into plenty of the scenarios exposed here.
Well let's see how long he can keep it up. I am tempted, however, to just reply to him with this video's URL...
But that's no fun. For me at least.
Ital21 3 months ago
@Ital21 Ah the stalking game — an impotent individual gets an illusion of importance by provoking a reaction. A few years ago, a stalker started following me on a couple of videos I'd liked/favourited, trying to engage me in their fantasy. So I filtered out notifications. Dropped by some of my favourites the other month and saw a load of comments they'd left years ago. It was sad. All that effort, saying they knew they were getting to me — not knowing I was oblivious to them the whole time.
TheraminTrees 3 months ago
Was the "religious experiences" video made?
Thanks again for these exceptional videos. Really enjoying them and the ones by QualiaSoup.
GoDrex 3 months ago
@GoDrex Thank you — and of course I agree about QualiaSoup :8)
The religion-orientated video in this series is the one linked to this, called 'Religion — The Bad Parent'.
TheraminTrees 3 months ago
@GoDrex Thanks for the reply
GoDrex 3 months ago
Brilliant - you have a new subscriber.
GlowWorm1962 3 months ago 3
@GlowWorm1962 Thanks — and welcome to the channel.
TheraminTrees 3 months ago
GAMES GAMES GAMES. WE ARE ALL PLAYING GAMES. GERMANY HAS TRIED THESE WONDERFUL GAMES OR CONFORMITY ROLE PLAYING EXPERIMENTS TWICE NOW.
FIRST THE NAZIS THEN THE STASI.
BOTH FAILED!
GIVE A IDIOT WITH A BRITISH ACCENT A LITTLE REINFORCEMENT AND LOOK WHAT HE HAS DONE.
"IT IS FUNNY HOW THINGS WILL TURN, TODAY I CANNOT MENTION I WAS FROM EAST GERMANY IF I WANT TO WORK." ERICH MIELKE (FORMER STASI)
nickbatiwillrepyou 4 months ago
@nickbatiwillrepyou I CAN'T HEAR YOU. SPEAK UP.
Nepycros 2 months ago
Ah, another breath of sanity in this quagmire of pretense.
Astrobrant2 4 months ago
I really appreciate the time, effort, and learning that has gone into your vids. Your brain is awesome.
Morahg 5 months ago
@Morahg Thank you — much appreciated.
TheraminTrees 5 months ago
Is there a mistake in this video? You tend to "have to react in the moment" for online games, and tend to have "more time to react" for offline games.
Unless I'm missing something, think there was a boo boo at the start.
bersaba 6 months ago
@bersaba Nope, the video says the reverse: more time to react in online games — don't have to reply to a comment immediately; more often have to react in the moment in face-to-face offline games, in the flow of conversation. You can of course break those face-to-face conversations up — after every single response from the other person, you can go away, consider your response and come back. Bit stilted, but possible.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees
That's my point, you don't "have more time to react in online games", you can always pause the game. Online games (say a MMO) you generally have to react to the boss fight as it happens.
Maybe I'm missing something here. Regardless, it's got nothing to do with the video which I think is about a ShockOfGod "debate"
bersaba 6 months ago
@bersaba I'm not talking about video games — I'm talking about mind games — which are played out online and offline.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees One of the users you were talking to brings up a topic I was curious about. The youtube user Shockofgod is famous for being very rude, dishonest and disingenuous. I have had some conversations with him and I can tell he was trying to provoke me, of course I fell into it. If you are familiar with him I was curious to hear what kind of game is that. It would be great to have a real world example to apply these principles to.
thesparitan 6 months ago
@thesparitan The behaviour you describe sounds like common-or-garden trolling. The troll gets a morbid pleasure from fucking people around. They can be trolled back or ignored or run dry, etc. — the only mistake is to care, which is what the trolling game is designed to make you do.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees Just one last question, what is there motivation? Why does it give them pleasure?
thesparitan 6 months ago
@thesparitan Who knows what particular mechanism leads a particular troll to dehumanise others — I'm sure there's a multitude of candidates.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees Best sign someone knows what they are talking about is when they admit they don't something. I will do some more reading I guess and thanks for your help. I will go back to watching the rest of the series, its very informative.
thesparitan 6 months ago
Dear god sir....where is "there are no gods 3".
Jeffersonwazright 6 months ago
Interesting, TT. In my experience debate has little to do with an exchange of ideas (specifically meaning that both debaters are honestly comprehending the others ideas and arguments with the potential that their viewpoint may actually be changed in the process) and more to do with persuasions in consideration of an audience.
We both know that persuasion is an entirely different animal from a truth concept although, that can play a part but not nearly often enough for my interests.
vryc 6 months ago
@vryc 'In my experience debate has little to do with an exchange of ideas'
—Shame intit. Considering the debaters are the audience too.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
I hope I never meet this A person. They seem like an asshole.
Percavius 6 months ago
Great tutorial and you didn't even use haxs
jmm1233 6 months ago
Excellent video Sir Trees! ;-D
I've noticed I've gotten very "knee-jerk" around certain arguments. Though generally I'm surprised at how civil YT has been to me. I pull the plug quickly on certain things, but it's a rare occurrence.
Bigotry is the one thing that really gets my goat. That and being an arse for no reason. It's hard for me to differentiate "being an arse" and "being sarcastic" sometimes. Sarcasm doesn't always translate well in "text." But I do try. ;-D
Xoroaster 6 months ago
@Xoroaster Thank you Mr Roaster ;8) It's great YT's been civil to you — that seems so exotic. I think I became quite desensitised early on with all the hate and death threats — perversely, I tend to be more shocked by civility these days. Yes, written sarc-arse-m is quite an art isn't it. Some folks don't seem to realise that sarcasm works because of the juxtaposition of sincere-seeming words and cynical delivery — they think sincere-seeming words are enough. Real geniuses aren't they.
TheraminTrees 6 months ago
@TheraminTrees lolz, too true. I recently cut off a guy on his first post. Thought he was giving me the "you're an anti-jewish bigot" number. I launched all my missiles, and banished the dude to the Youtube wastelands. But, back channels brought me back in contact with him. Turns out he was just being an A-hole. Who knew? ;-D
If we all had the long flowing hair and psychic powers of Spiritualist Sap, this would all be simpler. ;-D
Xoroaster 6 months ago
Wow. A sounds a lot like a relative of mine...
Anyality 6 months ago
Ahhh nephilimfree and DonExodus. That made me lol
19822andy 7 months ago
please, we need to take your dna and preserve it for the future generations!
Btw, I would be interested in wheter you make use of you analytical mind elsewhere in your life. In a job for example? Also, have you written any books or would you care to someday?
TheOkthxbye 7 months ago
Theramin Trees. Have you ever read 'Illness as metaphor' by Susan Sontag?
'Illness as metaphor and AIDS and its metaphors'
# Publisher: Penguin Classics (3 July 2009)
# Language English
# ISBN-10: 0141187123
# ISBN-13: 978-0141187129
All the best, G
artbielz 7 months ago
YOU NEED MOAR SUBSCRIBERS
ManlySlut 7 months ago
Particuarly recognisable was "Dimestore Freud". Almost as soon as I heard the word "psychology" at school I was struck by the way in which most of those interested were so busy being convinced they understood all things about all people that they had no time to actually observe or understand anything!
mrlomton 8 months ago
@mrlomton - I think that has been a rather classic problem of those who are interested in the field.
I wonder if it persists in some of those who might have obtained degrees, or even have gone so far as to be working in the field? (Do you think so?)
People seem to readily accept answers from those they deem as authority figures; and it seems to me, that having intimate access to a persons thoughts and feelings does rather put you in a position of power over them, by the very nature of it.
PurpleGhost 7 months ago
All of the suggested archetypes here are unnervingly familiar!
Many youtube comment sections seem to rapidly collapse into childish and vulgar personal attacks, which in many cases involve attacks on people's sexuality or stupid racism. Nice to see it called out and so accurately described!
mrlomton 8 months ago
Thanks for this!
While I don't do much debating online, several of my close relations (and some casual acquaintances) seem to enjoy the roles of Shoulda Coulda Buddha and Dimestore Freud. I must say it's pretty satisfying to have such amusing names for them. However I find there's no really satisfying way to end a situation like that so you don't leave feeling irritated. Perhaps I should try quietly sneaking out a door next time ;)
eadfkhbsaeojfh 8 months ago
Where is Wisemonkey 1?!
goofinaround123 8 months ago
Finally someone who understands these types of tricks as well as me!
What's the name for this type of tactic were you praise yourself in the guise of praising someone else.
SchizoCarpetBeater 8 months ago 11
@SchizoCarpetBeater LOL, well 'Boomerang' springs to mind.
TheraminTrees 8 months ago 6
@SchizoCarpetBeater Thank you for the chuckle. :)
t3tsuyaguy1 6 months ago
@SchizoCarpetBeater
On a large scale, that sounds like "Astroturfing". "Sock puppets" is the term, I believe, for use on individual fora, like Youtube comments or an on-line bulletin board. They can also be used to create fake controversy and strawmen.
loperspest 4 months ago
Great Vids I Sub'd Thank You!
cuwhenigetthere 11 months ago
ABC, its as easy as 123.
SatiricalStewie 11 months ago
this is deeper then bootsy's bass solos
echoes1234567891 11 months ago
As much as I agree with your arguments, I disagree with the ones concerning psychologists. There are facts such as the related cases in Jon Carlson's book "The mummy at the dinning table" where 2/3 of the psychologists written in the book have empathised with their patients in a way that they ended up treating them by having genuine relationships with them and dissolving the psychologist/client relationship rather than superficially claiming they know what their patients think.
frreezzy 11 months ago
Why do I find this so applicable to all my arguements?...
Good post.
MattHughes2011 1 year ago
8:00 Am I the only one who thinks that looks like an ant's head?
bobplatypus 1 year ago
for a lot of people unfortunately, any debate whether digital or tangible, seem to be nothing more than a popularity contest. An honest debate (in my opinion) should lead the exchange of ideas to a point where two SME's resolve their differences and solidify a subject which has been ambiguous.
destin325 1 year ago 2
@destin325 I tend to agree — there seems to be so little disciplined enquiry, establishing valid premises and justifications, and such a welter of bluster and rhetoric.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees
so you JUST HAD to bring in governmental politics?
by the way, excellent video! you, qualiasoup, and a few others make my brain happy while youtubing.
destin325 1 year ago
@destin325 'SME's resolve their differences and solidify a subject which has been ambiguous.' Ambiguity is part of life. It makes us think about things, position ourselves and perhaps rethink some of these positions. Solidification is a wish a bit like going towards singularity or a unified theory in science or monotheism (really part of our Judeo-Christian culture). No escape from our cultural training. LOL. Life is fluid. Sometimes you position yourself. Sometimes you let go.
artbielz 7 months ago
@destin325
I bet someone has said this before but...
I INSTANTLY thought of William Lane Craig when I read your comment.
truckcompany 6 months ago
i don't get you
ThePwnedsouthpark 1 year ago
Person A seems oddly like NephilimFree.
Spherical3 1 year ago
Wonderful as usual! The painting was a particularly graphic illustration (haha) of the point you were making. I had an immediate impression - which was totally my assumption - about the people in the painting. They aren't even people; they're just images! It shows how deeply rooted our profiles and assumptions are, and how easy it is to take them for granted. If you hadn't been making the point that we create usually unfounded theories about people, I wouldn't have noticed I was doing it.
ReligiousFiction 1 year ago
@ReligiousFiction Hey ;8) Thanks — I'm glad that came through. I think it's always more powerful when you can observe yourself doing the particular thing that's being described. Me and Qualia are in the middle of the 'Why live' response. Music and script complete, animation half done. So hopefully in time for xmas, free time permitting! Thanks for your patience ;8)
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees No worries! There's no time horizon on your response. I'm just honored you guys are making one!
To further how well you made your point, I had paused the video exactly at that painting when my husband came in. Incredulously, he asked, 'WHAT kind of video are you watching?!' Then I explained to him that you'd just been explaining the snap judgments we make. We thought it was hilarious!
ReligiousFiction 1 year ago
Great video! I witnessed firsthand some of the games played on Youtube. Is it just me or is it usually the creationist who initiates the debate (hence the game) with no intention of following through with it? hrnmm...shockofgod....hrmmmphh....
nephilimfree...
JoshwithaJ 1 year ago
@JoshwithaJ ShockofGod especially, there's no reasoning with that wackjob. Nephilim just blocks you from the start. Shock on the other hand arrogantly chooses to block you, then posts something in response to your statement on a video or on your channel... knowing you can't reply.
Mystrymeat 1 year ago
@JoshwithaJ Even when a debate happens, it's still often so chockfull of game-playing fallacious rhetoric rather than honest disciplined arguments, that to call it a 'debate' is dubious in itself.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
hehe, sounds like the mayweather vs pacquiao negotiations.
BluesRockRo 1 year ago
All of these "games" are all what trolls do. They will mess with people, on purpose, just to piss the other "players" off because the trolls find it amusing. It's only a game to the assholes that start them.
n3cr0fil3 1 year ago
What.... Are these games you speak of?....
bbphnix 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My name is Mike from LA Although there busizz4me.info
karoletoledo 1 year ago
That is a good, insightful video
Dusmiethwhi 1 year ago
Now that I finally got a working program that connects my computer to US proxy servers (I am one of the unfortunate viewers from Germany) and had the chance to watch this video, I just have this to say: Brilliant!
lizzy310589 1 year ago
@lizzy310589 Thanks. I still don't know why there was/is a block on the video for viewers in Germany. It seems to be completely random. Hopefully it won't happen again.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
This series mentions a second addendum, apparently about religion, but it does not seem to exist. Given that this series isn't brand new, the apparent spacing between the existing videos in the TA series, my guess at the content of that video, and the theist tendency to flag out of existence videos that meet with their disapproval, I wonder if you lost that video in that manner. If so, is there any mirror or other copy left around that I might be able to watch? I'm quite interested in seeing it.
renegade4dio 1 year ago
@renegade4dio The second and final addendum is yet to come. I'd planned to get it finished a few weeks ago but personal/professional life has sucked up my free time of late. It's now planned for the next 3 days.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees That's great! I was worried that the forces of evil had somehow gotten it... I look forward to it.
renegade4dio 1 year ago
I just found you, TheraminTrees and QualiaSoup and I am astonished by the videos! I'm from Slovakia and I sometimes experience problems understanding videos. Nevertheless, the voice you use, articulation, and words you use are very clear and comprehensible to me. Your great logic and creativity makes me think, if you could have something to say about humour and comedy! I've looked for books or videos about humour, its fundamentals or patterns, but I just can't find anything or figure it out!
MimKoRn 1 year ago
@MimKoRn Thanks! And glad you find our videos clear/comprehensible. Humour's a fascinating subject — and theories of humour abound: Benign Violation Theory [BVT], Ontic-Epistemic Theory of the Comic [OETC], Superiority theory, Misattribution theory, Freud's Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious, etc, etc. But I've merely browsed these theories — never taken any time to organise my own thoughts on the issues.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
I lost the game
bobplatypus 1 year ago
Really good video, dude. I will be subscribing to you.
JunkCCCP 1 year ago
@JunkCCCP Thanks — and welcome to the channel.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
great vid :)
Needshoe 1 year ago
Nephilim is at it again, he's now going to do the same sabotage game with Thunderfoot
it's worthwhile checking out this process TT, there might be enough material for a new video in this series.
BaileysBeads 1 year ago
@BaileysBeads I'm not a bit surprised — the psychological payoffs, whatever they are, are clearly providing a format that seems worth investing his time in, time and time again.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
Interesting video. I can see how I have fallen into these games in the past. Why just yesterday I sent a PM to AronRa on facebook to ask about the evolutionary tree of Hyenas, but I mentioned that part of the reason I asked was one of my therian friends who told me that Hyenas were actually related to cats that got me interested in doing more research. Even though it wasn't relevant to the conversation and it could have been done without, I still mentioned that my friend was a therian anyway.
Nightmare060 1 year ago
I was wondering where you would recommend I go to find more about TA, games and Gimmicks, I realize I spend too much time agonizing over simple games I play and don't want to.
In one of the first video's you mentioned a book, would that be a good place to start, or would you recommend something else?
Hogeyhead 1 year ago
I remember the person who commented on your videos doing the same thing as 'A'.
Nicenice404 1 year ago
I'm gonna say the common words for the "Bad Examples".
Trolls!
labsalono 1 year ago
This vid is one of my favorites on you tube. Thank's for creating it.
cherrybelly999 1 year ago
T.A seems really interesting, what is some good beginning literature on the subject?
DunbarConfederalist 1 year ago
@DunbarConfederalist There's some suggested reading in the description box.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
"Any fool can form theories about people" - love the observation (and the entire video ofcourse)! = )
mahua82 1 year ago 2
@mahua82 Thanks. I've wanted to put that line out there for a while. It's a cringeworthy spectacle watching some people 'diagnose' all kinds of spurious convoluted motivations, childhood experiences, etc., in others, and congratulate themselves on their psychological 'savvy' — having confused 'analysing' with rationalising. I used to say, 'Well you're no psychologist but you could be a great writer.' But even that was untrue — their cliche-ridden theories tend to resemble bad TV.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago 20
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mahua82 1 year ago
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mahua82 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees Cringeworthy is the word! These days when I'm faced with pseudo analyses of the sort I make it a point to confront the propounders and (humbly) point out the presence of subjectivity and bollock-ness in their opinion. I've experienced that this is one way of curbing it a little - letting people know that their precious solutions, much contrary to their personal views about them, are most often not even worthy of contemplation.
mahua82 1 year ago
I really love this series.
I find it very interesting how the internet has provided a new kind of playing field for games. While they are fundamentally the same as 'real life' games, there are elements (like the ones you've pointed out in this video) that only present themselves online. Are you thinking of dealing with any more online topics (like online dating or cyber bullying, etc)?
Snoot501 1 year ago
I love that:
'I think you think too much'
I've had it in a similar guise:
'I think you talk too much'
i.e. I don't like your argument so I'll suggest that the very act rebutting my claim is evidence of it's weakness'.
sitemountain 1 year ago
Theramin is perceptive. How does he know I am masturbating?
ShallowThoughts 1 year ago
you just got yourself a subscriber.
Zralf 1 year ago
"HAVING AN OPINION"; ITS PRETTY MUCH LIKE ENLISTING.
ZEROEVILDARKCOOL 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"MASTURBATION". THATS WHAT I SAID! BUT WITH DIFFERENT SEXUAL ANALOGIES. HES SUCKING HIS OWN DICK, HES SUCKING HIS DICK, SAUSAGE FEST, CIRCLE JERKING. CALLING EVERYONE GAY WHILE DESCRIBING VIVID HOMOSEXUAL FANTASIES. I TRIED THAT IN SCHOOL ON THE DEBATE TEAM BUT I GOT KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL. I GUESS I GOT AN EARLY GRADUATION BECAUSE LIKE YOU THEY HAVENT CAUGHT UP TO OUR ADVANCED COLLEGE FRAT BOY WAY OF THINKING YET. OR ELEMENTARY GRADE SCHOOL STUDENT. RIGHT YOUR BRITISH, "PRIMARY" SCHOOL STUDENT.
ZEROEVILDARKCOOL 1 year ago
@ZEROEVILDARKCOOL 1/10 troll
Sorry, try harder than mentioning genitals, typing in caps, and writing stupid junk.
Wooo00oo 1 year ago
@Wooo00oo YOU ARE AWARE OF THE IRONY OF THIS COMMENT?
ZEROEVILDARKCOOL 1 year ago
METAGAMES~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
secobi 1 year ago
04:00 Wonder how you came up with this example ;)
alllucky7s 1 year ago
As always, very interesting and insightful. I am sure I will find this very useful in my relationships, especially with my family. Thank you for all your hard work in producing these.
MarriedToTheMethod 1 year ago
Gosh this all sounds familiar.
DonExodus2 1 year ago
Another amazing video. Thank you..
uzonder 1 year ago
The one thing I don't quite understand in this video is what you describe as "[responding] from free child, and [having] some fun" and "responding spontaneously." I believe this has to do with responding from other parent-child-adult states, as described in the Games video, but I'm just not quite sure what it would look like.
airandfingers 1 year ago
Excellent as always. I'm glad you found the Nephilim/Don debate incident useful.
This video is a great addition to the series; I felt like one thing the series was lacking before was a larger number of concrete examples of games, especially ones we've experienced in day-to-day life. I saw the Neph/Don thing going on, and I had a personal experience with a Dimestore Freud, who was actually a very unhelpful professional therapist.
Thanks for continuing to share your insight.
airandfingers 1 year ago
Hmm... it sounds like your chakras weren't resonating properly during the production of this video. I read that somewhere you know...
Intiom 1 year ago
Fascinating and fun (funcinating?), thanks.
ThorGoLucky 1 year ago
I love this series of videos. I'm just starting college and want to study philosophy naturally I really enjoy subjects such as this.
MunchausenByProxxY 1 year ago
I really appreciate your videos. Have you ever considered making one about propaganda in the media? Something which exposes the methods of influence and belief change in marketing and politics (or religion)? I have looked at some, but I am certain you could add something meaningful to the mix. Thank you.
MrSteveSpears 1 year ago
I've got to read more about TA. You make it sound so fascinating and challenging.
beetlecommathe 1 year ago
Hah. I'm guilty of these things at some points in my life (the Shoulda Woulda Buddha thing and the Challenger thing). Although I felt I was acting poorly, now this video gives some clarity and elaboration into what I was doing. Thanks a lot for the lesson!
ASTCify 1 year ago
I think I know shoulda woulda buddha. :)
AtheistinFundyLand 1 year ago
One other game I've personally noticed both in person and on tv is when one person begins to make a valid point and the other (who can see where it is headed) starts to talk over the first. Bill O'Rielly is infamous for this.
It is the equivalant of a temper tantrum and isn't really debating but a controlling monologue. Still it's a strategy that can be difficult to overcome to the uninitiated. If attempting to shame the controller doesn't work I'll keep talking regardless or else walk away.
updownleftrightinout 1 year ago
I really enjoy these online games, for what they are: games. It's an entertainment purpose. Trolling man, trolling.
lordfumblesquid 1 year ago
What would you call the Shockofgod game- a non-question is posed, nobody bites, and victory is self-proclaimed?
ZombiGrisGris 1 year ago
Again Theramin, I can't thank you enough for these TA videos. They're realling giving an insight into things that people like me have trouble understanding.
OatSharpener 1 year ago
This one seems so very familiar... why does it seem so?
VileMike 1 year ago
this seems fine for online debates , when it comes to mmorpg it a whole other ball game
jmm1233 1 year ago
@variablast What's a niggerer?
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@variablast 'The field can filter out important stuff if you put too thick a firewall up.'
—For me, it's not so much of a firewall — in fact it's probably the opposite, something more like a magnifying glass. A detachment, with a view to looking at what's presented with as few preconceptions as possible: dealing with what's there.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@variablast Great — I'll look forward to it ;8)
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@RedAlphaDingo Thanks ;8)
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@variablast 'Do you think that seeing life in terms of these games may inhibit responding to people's actual needs at times?'
—Hi variablast. I'm not clear on the links you're drawing there — could you maybe expand, possibly with a scenario?
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
This is a very interesting model that you've detailed in this series. Thank you.
fishsquire 1 year ago
What you've shown seems true to the repeating forms of arguement that I've witnessed online. That it falls in nicely with your other videos is cool.
My problem is this: I'm not an experienced debater or one who could catch this kind of thinking right away. If I start to engage with these types I find their strategy will continuously change and a novice like me won't be armed to properly deal with them. I find myself withdrawing quicker because the frustration simply isn't worth the effort.
updownleftrightinout 1 year ago
@updownleftrightinout con't....but if I walk away from the discussion not only have I felt like I "lost" but I know I've empowered the culprit by not being able to counter his weak games. They come out being able to tell themselves and others how their thinking trumped anothers when it's absolutely not true.
But I know I shouldn't care about that - yet I find it so, so annoying.
updownleftrightinout 1 year ago
@updownleftrightinout The 'butterflying' behaviour you describe, darting around without following things through, is something I've found irksome. I started refusing to move on to the next point if the previous one hadn't been addressed — and draw it back to that point. If the point doesn't get addressed, the conversation goes no further, and I make it clear why. My interest in game-players genuinely evaporates very quickly because they're behaviour's just so boring.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago 7
@TheraminTrees I just had a pretty weird thought and had to ask your opinion.What do you think the possibility is of an internet based government?I appreciate the technicalities of such an operation, but the idea of the world being ruled by the majority of people who have access to the largest amount of information (coupled with what James Surowieki says in The Wisdom of Crowds) seems almost utopian.Randomly select the jurors for every decision and, statistically, they would make the best choice
basass101 1 year ago
I love the idea of the Coulda Shoulda Buddha! I have a severe chronic illness that seems to tempt people into this particular game. People want to help and give advice, and often the Coulda Shoulda Buddha gains a lot of sympathy from other healthy people. It's frustrating and incredibly isolating.
Your video shows a fantastic way to talk about it. I'll tell people about Coulda Shoulda Buddha next time I encounter it. It's funny enough to do so without being offensive, and true. Absolutely true.
thewildplaces 1 year ago
@thewildplaces Thanks thewildplaces. I think sometimes, when things aren't critical, Coulda Shoulda Buddha can even be amusing — the dim-witted comments delivered with the 'wise' pose can be quite comical. But when things are at life and death proportions, defences are depleted, and you need all your emotional reserves, I think it can be one of the most provocative games going.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees Thank you for replying! I agree, and because it's such a provocative game it's extremely difficult to defuse. People can get offended or even angry if their "wisdom" is unrecognised. Of course, particular nasty, isolating or disappointing experiences with Coulda Shoulda Buddhas do linger in my mind, especially if the person keeps playing this role.
I tend to bite my lip but your videos are very helpful in thinking about how to deal with it, and let go of it too. Thanks again!
thewildplaces 1 year ago
I've seen all that on other places than youtube.
I tend to believe that the best response always is to either a) calmly and rationally (and publicly) explaining how the other person is in error and offering them the chance to rectify the problem, or b) just ignoring the asshole.
MiniarHalfshasa 1 year ago
The I like this button is doing the job thanks.
554466551 1 year ago
@554466551 Thanks ;8)
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
Very interesting.
Jofishy66 1 year ago
Thanks for this video; as always informative and beautifully polished. Kudos.
Epistemofo 1 year ago
@Epistemofo Thanks Epistemofo.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
The first example really resembles Nephilimfree's 'debate' attempt, interesting, Great videos man ;)
HeavyPhoton 1 year ago
Was that first example from the Nephilimfree debate challenge?
Leonis1989 1 year ago 5
@Leonis1989 That was indeed the model for the game shown in the video.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees - Didn't ShockOfGod have a lot to do with destroying the chance of a debate between Donexodus2 and Nephilimfree?
Leonis1989 1 year ago
@Leonis1989 I believe that was the case in the DonExodus2/Nephilimfree case — though the version in this video is a distillation, rather than an exclusive direct comment on that case.
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
The non-debate between Donexodus2 and Nephilimfree comes to mind.
JRBendixen 1 year ago 2
I so know the example from witch you drawn this debate example :D
morphles 1 year ago
Interesting ideas
IShallNotSubmit 1 year ago
nice metaphor for all the close-minded delusional idiot..
jojoinhere 1 year ago
sometimes I just like to say "shut up you're wrong" and not make my argument since it takes a decent bit of effort to express the argument and they aren't gonna listen anyway.
hac1m 1 year ago
Your video's in my subscription box is always a welcome sight. I keep looking for something in one of your videos I want to engage you in, yet the best I can come up with is, GREAT VIDEO! as always.
I will say this, the start was a bit confusing. took a moment to catch that you were discussing forums just like this. (online/offline) It didn't take long, and perhaps I should read discriptions more.
Still very informative, AND entertaining.
FergTubeAble 1 year ago
@FergTubeAble Thanks FergTubeAble ;8)
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
This video cuts deep.
Chibithy 1 year ago
This was amazingly well done! I appreciate your work :D [hugs]
freehugmachine 1 year ago