well said, I've been doing research for this very topic. I'm going to make an animation/typographic concerning Satan's "supposed" wickedness. The way I see it is comparable to a serial killer telling me that person X is wicked, evil and deceitful. I'm not going to take his word on it, because he has killed so many so who is he to judge what is good or bad. God has done so much damage, killed newborn children, and enslaved those who don't obey him blindly. Why is he praised? out of fear?
@OccamKant I am not close minded, I am just happy that I believe ...that i found God after so many years of living so desperately, seeking for something that woul fill up this empty hole my life has left inside of me...If you will have a point, I will say that... but you didn´t tell my what are your reasons for not believing in God...so, please tell me..what are they? (no smiley faces, thumbs up?)
@TheATILE You are close minded because you said that nothing I say can change your mind. That's what close minded means.
As for me - I don't believe in god because there is no reason to believe it. No god story I've heard from any religion is believable. I choose to believe what is provable, what there is evidence for. That's why we have computers today - because of scientific thinking and evidence. So I'm very concerned with what is *actually* true, with evidence and reason.
@TheATILE "seeking for something that woul fill up this empty hole my life has left inside of me"
It sounds like you've had some nasty life experiences, and for that I'm sorry. But I honestly think it would be healthier for you to find strength and comfort in the real world, with real people, than to invoke a happy fantasy.
Not everything that makes you happy is automatically good. Drugs apparently make you happy too, but I don't think you'd want to take them.
@OccamKant do you think you are 100% right? No, I am not saying ALL in the Bible is nonsense.I see a problem in all religions. I have my reasons and I feel really strongly about them.I do believe and nothing you say will make any difference. But I kind of get your point and it´s a good one.Are you really interested in my opinions, or are you only trying to proove that I am wrong? Are you willing to listen and accept, or you will turn everything I say into something I didn´t want to say? :)
@TheATILE "Are you willing to listen and accept, or you will turn everything I say into something I didn´t want to say? :) "
I'm definitely not trying to do that. That's called "straw-manning" and I'm not interested. When I repeat back my version of what you're saying, I'm telling you what I'm hearing from you, or what the logical implication of what you're saying is. If you disagree, fine, tell me why.
@OccamKant no, I don´t..I have my personal feeling...you can call it imagination, but I call it my faith.. you won´t get it, you didn´t go through the same things as I did, but i know for sure He helps me a lot..and I am still searching my faith and the right path, I don´t have to have everything proved... I just live my best :) now, i have a question.. do you live your best? are you happy and satisfied with your life?
@TheATILE Yes, I am happy and satisfied with my life. The reason I make these videos isn't because of some problem I feel internally, but rather the fact that I see religion as dangerous and counter productive to civilized society, and I'm trying to get people to see that.
So basically, you have in your own imagination, for no good reason, an idea of what you think God is. So are you not at all concerned about what's actually true?
@OccamKant The bible stories are just extreme religious spin applied to natural events. People like TheATILE who are emotionally needy are the victims of this spin. And then these victims try to make more victims.
@MrRedthief "People like TheATILE who are emotionally needy are the victims of this spin."
Well, to be fair, sometimes when people go through a lot, they reach out to whatever they can find to help them through their troubled times. I do understand this, and although I can be harsh sometimes in my responses (I do have a temper. My bad), I can't fault someone for trying to find a way to deal with pain.
@OccamKant I don´t think so because I don´t think God is like that... I don´t believe that He would send you to the deepest hell just like that, I don´t think that every single move in person´s life is a sin, as the Bible claims...but it has got some good points, for example, some situations there are pretty didactic for life i think..
@TheATILE "I don´t think so because I don´t think God is like that."
Ok - why don't you think God is like that? The bible says he is. Do you have some other source of information on what God is like? Or are you just going off your own imagination and wishful thinking?
@OccamKant I should not do whatever, blieving in God doesn´t mean believin in everything pope and church tells us to do.. I don´t fully believe in it, because I don´t think it´s 100% God´s word...that´s my answer..i am not saying I am smarter than God, I am saying I feel being lied to by the whole christian community... I just said I do believe in GOD Himself..
@OccamKant could you stop being rude to me? obviously, I am not English native speaker, so of course there will be some grammatical mistakes, I was really trying to have DEBATE about a topic here with you, but you are just being plain rude to me...if you call this intelligence, okay then.. You just want to insult every single thing about me...it was smiley faces, now you are doing this? okay what´s bad about me next?what do you have to insult me? Just go on..and be satisfied with yourself..
@TheATILE "You just want to insult every single thing about me."
Actually, I don't. The smiley thing was because it's actually really annoying seeing all those smileys in a message that is obviously not a happy one. It makes you seem like a jerk. Just make your points. One smiley per message should be enough.
@OccamKant hahaha best joke ever :D :D :D :D So you think you are the only one that´s intelligent right? :D yeah, in this entire world!! :D IT WAS IRONY I think i know this one better than you ;-) ;-) or, do YOU know ME more than I do? Oh, you know everything wooow :) good for you darling :) (irony!!!Just in case you "intelligent" yourself didn´t get it)
@OccamKant I am not a hypocrite :) I told you I believe in God in the other way... In my own way :) And i explained it to you, that I believe in Him and I don´t really believe in church and Vatikan, I think that even during the French revolution in 17th century, they already saw declension from original commision of the Church..That´s why I am not very into the whole Bible thing, because i don´t believe that everything in it is 100% God´s word..
@TheATILE "And i explained it to you, that I believe in Him and I don´t really believe in church and Vatikan"
You've explained nothing. You've made statements, that's not an explanation. I asked WHY you don't accept the whole bible. I know that you don't - I can read. I asked WHY you don't. If the bible is god's word, then you should accept it. If you don't think it's god's word, why don't you? Are you saying you're smarter than god?
@OccamKant Do not say you don´t do it, when you always do your: "three words out of 300" and then you talk only about them, so don´t lie to yourself you do it to..."I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100%" tihs is what you took out of my text, even though I said: for these particular times right after that :) you know what? I get that people have different opinions..I don´t take your away from you..You ask me, I answer and you´re not willing to listen..such a shame
@TheATILE "I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100%" tihs is what you took out of my text, even though I said: for these particular times right after that "
My question remains. Your adding "for these particular times" changes nothing. Why do you believe the perfect and inviolate word of god is no longer 100% valid? I don't believe in god, so I can ignore the whole thing. But you claim to believe - so how can you leave some behind? Hypocrite.
@OccamKant I fyou knew what irony was, you would actually see why are those faces smiling, you have just nothing left to say, that´s why you´re focusing on my smiley faces, it doesn not look dumb..I´m not even saying that you are wrong, you are living as good as you can and I mean, good for you! :) and yes, you ARE the most arrogant, because so far, I´ve met only people who are willing to listen and THINK just for a second that people might have different opinions than they do..Okay, I´ll answer
@OccamKant that´s you..you take ONE sentence out of one hundred and make one bilion wuestions about it, without getting the context of it :) whatever... yeah, you are so smart and wise and SO SO SO RIGHT!! Yeah the whole world agrees with you, you are the BEST!! :) HIGH FIVE for being the most arrogant human being I have ever met :-*** yeahhhhh :)
@TheATILE I take what sentence out of a hundred? You should give me a sentence - you know, for context, so I know what you're referring to. Like you keep whining about.
*I* don't take anything out of context buddy. That would be dishonest. I'm not saying I'm smart or wise - I'm asking questions that you guys apparently are incapable of answering. Not my fault if you don't have what it takes to answer.
And it's unlikely I'm the most arrogant person you've met. Stop lying.
@OccamKant The truth hurts (him). Sounds like a whiny little school kid. Better he/she run off and play (some more). Win-win for everyone, especially me reading such a twisted discourse of ill logic skills and false accusations. Whew!
@OccamKant are you like..mentally okay? :D I did not say any of that, you did... I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100% for these sick times :) stop being offensive, you are not know-it-all.. You are acting like you were better than me and I see no point in fighting with you :) Have a nice life, I hope you will wake up before it will be too late for you :) Think that you are the best and only one that´s right...whatever... I really tried, bye.. :)
@OccamKant it´s not MY Bible, I don´t believe in everything in it, I just believe in my own way... look, I can see where you are coming from, it´s hard to believe in God when you see all of the hate around you, and people fighting and innocent dying...but...you spread the hate around, I was just trying to explain my point of view to you...
@TheATILE Why don't you believe the bible? What right do you have to override the word of god? Are you smarter than god? Are you wiser, or more holy, or more just than god?
Or is it that you actually know it's all bullshit?
@OccamKant Bible is full of methaphores..it all are only pictures, that are trying to tell us something..It´s not like what´s there is 100% accurate or 100% right... it ´s just something what takes you on a right path through your life :)
@TheATILE "It´s not like what´s there is 100% accurate or 100% right"
So the bible ISN'T the word of god? If it's not 100% right, how right is it? 75%? 50%? 0%? If it's not right, why doesn't god fix it so it IS right? What kind of a useless idiot is god, that he lets his supposed user manual be full of errors?
@TheATILE Of course I don't believe in satan. But you do, I guess. And I'm just pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about if you think God is a good guy, and I'm backing up my statements with bible quotes.
Oh yeah, you haven't read your own bible. Go figure.
@OccamKant and I can see you don´t have any more arguments left, well, right then :) I am not judging you, we all have different life stories, I just wonder what´s happened to you that you hate God so much..that you can not see the Truth.. that´s okay, He loves you anyways :)
@OccamKant I´m not kissing anyone´s ass, don´t be so rude. i am trying to have intelligent talk with you here..No, He´s not going to burn you in hell.. you will do it :) He does not punish, He forgives :) That´s why He´s so awesome :)
@TheATILE "No, He´s not going to burn you in hell.. you will do it "
Lol - right. So - after I die, I will wake up in the afterworld, see heaven and hell, and just decide to walk my ass into hell instead? You mean, the bible doesn't say that God will cast me into the eternal flames... wait a minute! It DOES say that God will cast me into the eternal flames!
So, apparently you should read your bible because you don't know what you're talking about.
@OccamKant I tihnk it´s really sad that you look as a really smart, intelligent person and still, you´re not willing to hear what is a 17 years old saying :) I did not believe in God as well.. you don´t want to know what must´ve happened for me to have my eyes opened :) I have happy and fulfilled life, beause I believe that God will get me through anything :) You have God, you just don´t believe in Him :)
@TheATILE "you´re not willing to hear what is a 17 years old saying"
Of course I'm willing to hear what you're saying. Your problem is that you're not listening to what I'M saying. Also - that you're just repeating what millions of other blind followers have said before you.
Try to come up with an original thought, will you? And also respond to what I'm actually saying?
@OccamKant Okay, I´ll tell you something :) I have never ever ever ever read the Bible :) I don´t even own one,..I don´t go to church on regular basis...my relationship with God is only me and Him.. Maybe, we all are saying the same things, because we feel the same way :) did you think about that? :) You only see the bad, but what about the nice things that happen every single day?I was just like you.I blamed God for everything bad what happaned..but one day, I realized.
@TheATILE "I was just like you.I blamed God for everything bad what happaned."
No, you're nothing like me. I don't believe God exists. I don't blame him for anything. I'm just saying that the character of God, in the bible, is more evil than the character of Satan in the bible.
They are both make believe characters, like harry potter & voldemort.
@TheATILE "Okay, I´ll tell you something :) I have never ever ever ever read the Bible :) I don´t even own one"
Hmm. Well, do you call yourself a Christian, or something else? If you're a Christian, it's pretty sad that you've never read the bible, and don't own one. It's God's word, after all. Don't you think that his word is important?
@TheATILE Religious people are immoral. First they believe the lie that there is a god and the supernatural. Then they try to force that lie on everyone else. God is the only Hope people have is the lie that you believe.
actually, He is not responsible for ANYTHING...God gave us free motion, we can do whatever we want to, it´s upon us if we take things for granted or make them into God´s piece :) You shouldn´t be talking about things you don´t understand, because clearly, you are just some realy close minded human being :) OPEN your eyes and stop trying to find who is guilty, and start trying to be more open minded..I let you tell your opinion to me, so you let me say MY opinion.. God is not worse than Satan..
@TheATILE "He is not responsible for ANYTHING...God gave us free motion, we can do whatever we want to"
What would you think of a person who stood by and watched a rape happen? Particularly if that person was, say, a very skilled kung fu fighter and would not be at risk by stopping the rape? That person would be legally considered to be aiding and abetting the rapist, if they didn't try to stop the rape.
Since God is supposedly capable of stopping rapes, and doesn't, he's guilty.
@TheATILE "no, he´s not..the person´s guilty :) The person had a choice "
Listen - if you're going to respond to something I'm saying, at least do me the favor of actually READING what I said.
If someone is able to stop a crime and doesn't, they are considered guilty of it by aiding and abetting.
If God is supposedly capable of stopping crimes but doesn't, then he is JUST AS GUILTY as someone who stood by and watched a rape happen. Personal volition has NOTHING to do with it.
@OccamKant HE IS NOT GUILTY BECAUSE HE GAVE IS FREE MIND!!!! I hope with caps lock, you will finally get it :) HE GAVE US FREE MIND! WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT!! because that´s how it is! It´s on us if we do right or WRONG so stop repeating yourself :)
@OccamKant Good point. Rape, physical abuse and murder continue to this day, so much for Jesus dying for our sins or Noah's flood. And so much for the mighty and righteous biblical God for preventing any of this. But God LOVES us! Who did he say has the closed mind again?
@OccamKant The problem is they never hear logic in chuch, but only cherry picked tiny passages and songs for further truth distractions. (The passages have to be tiny since the bible is chock full of contradictions, but then again, these guys are so brain-washed that it wouldn't matter anyway lol.)
The serpent was not Satan, but was possessed by Satan to tempt Eve. The serpent was cursed bcos it ALLOWED it's mouth to be used by Satan.
Satan was working for God, and your prove is simply bcos satan "stood at the right hand of God"? That's your logic? So, whenever you happen to stand at somebody's right side, you're working for him?
Satan get to stand there bcos that was the place where Adam should be standing. Adam surrendered his position to Satan when he chose to sin.
@ArdenKuan Where does it say that the serpent was possessed? Where does it say he was acting any way but on his own?
Of COURSE satan is working for god! If not, god would just magically take away his powers, no? Where do Satan's powers come from, if not from God? God knows all, is all present and all powerful, so if Satan went "free agent" God would just lock him up and take away his toys.
So yes, Satan is an agent of God, doing God's bidding. God, in your bible, is behind all.
When God created man, God gave man "dominion" over all the earth. When Adam & Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, man surrendered this authority to satan. That's where this power come from. He took our authority.
Why God can't just take away his powers? Well, he can. But God too follows legality. Satan obtained it legally (albeit by deceit), so God can't simply take it away. It had to be done legally as well.
@ArdenKuan Satan wasn't in eden, it was a serpent. Go read your bible.
How would anyone listing to someone give that someone magical powers? You said "that's where this power come from". Satan supposedly has magical powers, as shown in the book of Job. These powers came from Adam and Eve listening to a snake?
"Satan obtained it legally (albeit by deceit)." What are you talking about? First, that makes no sense. Second, it doesn't appear anywhere in the bible.
When God created Adam, He gave man "dominion over the earth" (Genesis 1:26). This is the power which was surrendered to satan when Adam listened to satan's lies, ie. obeyed satan instead of God.
Satan wasn't in eden? Well, the bible said satan was a murderer and a liar from the beginning. (John 8.44).
Satan was the "ancient serpent" (Revelation 12.9, 20.2)
Perhaps you're unaware of the metaphorical nature of the bible. At least, that's what people keep telling me when I show them passages like where Jesus says to sell everything and give the money away.
How, exactly, do you tell which passages are metaphorical and which are literal?
Well, we must look at the passage and how the word/phrase was used. It must be based on the context.
eg. serpent can used to describe the characteristics of a person. But if the word is more specific, like "ancient serpent", we can't interpret it the same way.
@ArdenKuan So Jesus says, at least 3 separate times, to sell all your belongings and give the money away. It's as plain as day, and as specific as you can possibly be.
So have you sold all your stuff and given the money away. Do you hate your family, like Jesus tells you to do?
But it's okay, I can go along with you. Can you quote to me the scripture reference for all the 3 times Jesus said this? And, state also to whom Jesus was talking to?
@ArdenKuan "But it's okay, I can go along with you. Can you quote to me the scripture reference for all the 3 times Jesus said this? And, state also to whom Jesus was talking to?"
It doesn't matter who he was talking to. He gives general commands, not specific to one person. Love thy neighbor, for example, is never considered to be aimed at one person.
The "Consider the Lillies" speech is one place, the "eye of the needle" is the other, and I'll have to dig up the third.
This is taken from what we call "sermon on the mount" in Matthew 6.25-34.
The passage is actually teaching us not to worry, bcos we have a heavenly Father who cares for us.
This is addressed to all believers, but never did Jesus ask us to "give away all our money".
In fact, in verse 32 it says, "For the pagans run after all these things (clothes, food, money etc), and your heavenly Father KNOWS THAT YOU NEED THEM."
This story is on point, but I'll come back to discuss it later.
"not to store up earthly treasures"
Matthew 6.19-18, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy.... But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven... For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
"do not store up treasures" - Honestly tell me, is this the same as "give away all your money"? "don't keep any possession"?
Back to this: The story is about a "rich young ruler"
Mark 10.17-31.
This story is on point, where Jesus asked him to "Go, sell all your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (v. 21)
But notice, Jesus didn't say this as a teaching to everybody. It was spoken specifically to him alone. It was a one off incident, spoken to just one person.
@ArdenKuan "But notice, Jesus didn't say this as a teaching to everybody. It was spoken specifically to him alone. It was a one off incident, spoken to just one person."
Yes, he was speaking to one guy. So what? EVERY SINGLE OTHER thing Jesus said supposedly applies to everyone. You guys just don't want to follow this one because you don't want to be poor.
If EVERYTHING ELSE Jesus says applies to everyone, then this obviously does too.
@ArdenKuan "Not everything is applicable to everybody."
Jesus didn't write anything down. Whenever he talked, he was talking to someone. If you're going to argue that the "sell everything" command was to that one guy alone, then EVERYTHING only applies to the people in his immediate vicinity.
Which means that NOTHING Jesus said applies to you AT ALL.
When we read the passage, the manner in which Jesus said it, we can know whether it's meant for all believers, or for specific persons at a specific time.
Eg. Jesus told one blind man to "Go wash in the pool of Siloam." This definitely is meant for him alone. It's absurd to say it applies to all believers, that all must go and wash in the pool of Siloam.
On the other hand, Jesus said, "Love one another, as I have loved you." - it applies to all.
No - I'm just pointing out that you guys are usually quite hypocritical when it comes to biblical interpretation. You interpret the bible however you want. You interpret it in whatever way fits your current desires.
According to all the Christians I've spoken to, it's ok to make the bible say whatever you want it to say.
To me, that's really weak, but whatever floats your boat.
I do agree with you. Some Christians are like that, regrettably. But we all learn as we grow.
I believe in interpreting the bible by studying it as a whole, quoting relevant passages to establish a point. (I hope you notice every point I made is supported by scripture)
If you want to say my interpretation is wrong, you have to use the scripture to refute me. It's not good enough to say "God lied", or "bible is fairy tales". To me, that's weak also.
@ArdenKuan "(I hope you notice every point I made is supported by scripture)"
No, it's not. You said a lot about sacrifice in the book of Genesis, and NONE of what you said was supported in scripture, it was all a completely unsupported extrapolation from the fact that God supposedly provided them with skins and how YOU think God got those skins. You can't extrapolate from your own guesses.
Also how Satan was somehow in the garden, even though there is no scripture to support it.
Wow! I quoted Genesis, OT laws on atonement sacrifices (generally, there were many verses to refer to each), NT book of Hebrews - all to support my case.
Then you said, "None was supported by scripture". Wow! simply amazing! You didn't say anything to refute me or to explain how I was wrong, but instead simply a bare denial.
How deluded you are. Atheism has done all these to you.
@ArdenKuan "If you want to say my interpretation is wrong, you have to use the scripture to refute me. It's not good enough to say "God lied""
I did use scripture, that's the point. God said to... someone - his angels? that he didn't want them to eat the fruit because they would be like gods with their eyes opened, but he told Adam and Eve that they would die instead. The serpent told them the truth, that their eyes would be opened. They didn't die - their eyes were opened.
That's exactly my point. You DIDN'T USE any scripture. Where did it say that God told someone that "he didn't want them to eat the fruit bcos they would be like gods with their eyes opened."
Thanks for proving my point. Can't you see this? You're the one making things up, imagining things that were not there. Your views were not supported by bible at all.
@ArdenKuan ""bible is fairy tales". To me, that's weak also."
The bible IS filled with fairy tales. We know the flood didn't happen - there's no way it COULD happen. Every single statement about the flood story is false. Tower of babel? Never happened. The Jews were never in egypt, so the whole Exodus story obviously never happened.
And when Jesus died - 500 zombies climbed out of their graves and marched on Jerusalem? Riiight.
In all major civilizations there's a legend of a flood. I know there's one in the chinese legends. Coincidence? Well, Jesus referred to it as a real historical event.
Tower of Babel - no evidence, except for the variety of our speeches we still have today. (living evidence).
Talking about that, there's a very fascinating study about the link between ancient chinese characters with the stories in Genesis. It's as if the creators of these characters
@ArdenKuan "In all major civilizations there's a legend of a flood. I know there's one in the chinese legends."
So, let me get this straight. You're actually trying to propose that the chinese people, as a whole, were wiped out with a genocidal flood, and then somehow WEREN'T wiped out by this flood and were able to write about it?
It's as if the creators knew about the stories in Genesis. There's too many similarities to be simply written off as "mere coincidences".
"Jews were never in egypt". How did you know? No records that they have been there doesn't mean they've never been there. Esp. when there were some records (disputable i know, but still something..)
All these stories we can't prove definitely that it happened, but you can't prove that they didn't either.
@ArdenKuan "It's as if the creators knew about the stories in Genesis. There's too many similarities to be simply written off as "mere coincidences"."
Creators of what - the chinese character set? This "similarity with genesis" is a completely made up creationist story. And of course it makes no sense. The chinese language and character set are far OLDER than the bible and even when the world was supposedly created. Get real.
@ArdenKuan "Not zombies. Living talking people. They were raised to life"
Guess what? People who have been dead for some time that have been raised to life is the DEFINITION of zombie. You can be dead for up to 8 minutes and be revived without damage, but if you've been buried, then you are already a rotting corpse. Make that walk around, and it's zombietime.
@ArdenKuan The third time was when Jesus said not to store up earthly treasures but to store up heavenly ones.
So there you go - 3 separate speeches where Jesus tells you that material wealth, and indeed having anything at all, is against what he's all about. That you're supposed to give up EVERYTHING, including your family, and basically be a street preaching bum, if you want to follow him.
Not 3, just a one-off incident. The other 2 examples you gave were off-point. Jesus was addressing a specific issue with this rich guy. Jesus asked him to sell all, to reveal to him where his heart is.
You've got it all wrong, bro. In fact, God wanted his children to PROSPER so that we can be a testimony of God's goodness. God blesses his children so we can be a blessing to others.
(You too are invited! It's free and it's just a prayer away)
@OccamKant "all about not having material possessions"
How? I quoted to you the verses and explained how they were talking about different things altogether.
Now, tell me how it is "incredibly obvious." You must explain where does it say that, how does it say that. To me, as I have explained, its so incredibly obviously not.
If you still can't come up with anything, I'll conclude that you can't argue at all. No debater worth his salt will make conclusions without reason.
@ArdenKuan "And, state also to whom Jesus was talking to?"
Don't for get the rest of what Jesus said to the crowd during the "sell everything" speech - you know, the CONTEXT: He turns to the crowd and says that it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle (ie - impossible) than it is for a rich man to enter heaven (ie impossible).
And certainly, by the standards of what people had during Jesus' time, you right now are wealthy beyond measure. No heaven for you!
It's not impossible bcos Jesus specifically said, "When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matt 19.25-26)
First of all, let me establish that it is not difficult at all to be saved (ie. enter the kingdom of heaven). I told you that it's just a prayer away, and it's true.
Romans 10.9: "If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
That's it! Believe in your heart, confess with your mouth - you're saved. Not difficult at all. Good example, one of the criminal crucified with Jesus, just believed him and said, "Lord, remember me.." and that was all that's needed.
If so easy, why not more people get saved? Bcos they simply REFUSED TO BELIEVE.
So, why is it hard (ok, very hard) for a rich man to be saved? It's bcos they trust in their riches. They think "I don't need God". So, they simply refused to believe. But, as Jesus said, it's not impossible. God can change their hearts.
Me, on the other hand, Praise God, I'm already saved! I've already "entered the kingdom of heaven", or rather, the kingdom of heaven is already within me (Luke 17.21)
@ArdenKuan "serpent can used to describe the characteristics of a person. But if the word is more specific, like "ancient serpent", we can't interpret it the same way."
So if I call you an ancient serpent, does that automatically mean you were the serpent in the garden of eden?
We are not talking about calling names here. We are talking about bible interpretation.
So, when Revelation says, Satan = "ancient serpent", then it is sound exegesis to refer it to the serpent in the book of Genesis, to say that it was referring to the serpent from the ancient times, ie. that serpent.
It is not too far fetched to say that satan had some connection with the serpent in eden.
@ArdenKuan "So, when Revelation says, Satan = "ancient serpent", then it is sound exegesis to refer it to the serpent in the book of Genesis, to say that it was referring to the serpent from the ancient times, ie. that serpent."
Please explain why you can interpret this literally, and the part where Jesus tells you to sell everything and give the money away as metaphorical.
I've never said it was metaphorical. You've probably confused with the answer given by another.
No, I don't think it was metaphorical. I think it was a literal command. BUT it was not a general command given to all believers. I'll explain in the post where you cited the examples when Jesus said it.
Where Adam had lost it by his disobedience, our second Adam (Jesus) had by His perfect obedience, even to the cross, had by His death brought back this authority.
Now satan had been effectively "disarmed", and the authority now is given to the church.
I don't know how familiar you are with the bible, but if you are know the bible rather well, it's so exciting! To see all these fits like a beautiful tapestry.
@ArdenKuan I do know the bible, and I know that you're speaking nonsense.
You are just making all this nonsense up. None of it actually appears in the bible, and you can't even read between the lines to get here - you have to completely imagine this all without any attachment to reality.
If this is what passes for theology these days, then I have to say that they've gone right off the deep end. This is beyond just faith and right into fantasy.
You can't say something is nonsense simply bcos you can't comprehend it yet. Maybe you haven't studied the bible enough? Maybe you didn't think through it enough?
It's okay. Let's go through it again. Which part do you not understand? Perhaps I can explain it more clearly? Let's take it one point at a time.
@OccamKant Your ignorance is that you won't believe. That is why God doesn't choose everyone because people like you who lead many astray are too ignorant to the easiest act..to pray. The grace of understanding. Profound am I so young and yet I believe in God so much I have not lived past 20 have stared death in the face to witness that my job here is not done and my job is not for me to say but I believe that men like you are lost but is not quite forgotten. I will pray for you.:) You will see.
Shows much you really know. God created Satan as part of your test. God knows man will try to find flaws and justify himself. God is all knowing, All powerful and He is perfect. God allows suffering because of FREE WILL. Man does it to themselves. Isn't that obvious? I think it's great people think God is this and that because it's all the more reason for Satan to exist so you numbed nuts can join him and burn for eternity. I believe in One God in Three Divine beings. Suffering is true happiness
@tylerdurden666able "E=mc2 states that if you accelerate to the speed of sound..."
No it doesn't. Jesus you're stupid. There is no 'v' term in that equation, so there is no place for you to enter your speed. There is an 'm' term, for you to put in your mass. E=mc2 relates to the instantaneous conversion of matter to energy. This is what we find in the atomic bomb.
The lorentz transformations describe what happens to a body that comes close to the speed of light.
@tylerdurden666able You are an idiot. I never said that there were no evil actions, I said that there was no such thing as "evil" and it doesn't "come from" anywhere, any more than "fast" comes from somewhere.
@tylerdurden666able "tell me how mother teresa was in fact a piece of shit."
First, she told lies about condoms. She spread ignorance and fear about this, because of her catholic heritage. Then, in her "sanitarium" in india, she did nothing to actually cure any of her patients, she just let them die, when in some cases simple procedures would have actually made them well.
@tylerdurden666able "then how come the golden rule slipped by manson? if it doesn't require god to obey, how come all of us intelligent humans dont obey it?"
The golden rule slipped by manson? What are you babbling about? Which manson? Slipped by? Are you fucked in the head or what?
Why don't we obey it? Because some people (apparently like yourself) are sociopaths. They are broken, mentally.
The golden rule came from the code of hammurabi, which predates the bible by hundreds of years.
@tylerdurden666able "lol you fucking moron, yes there is a universal fast, its called E=Mc2 you dumbass. "
First - stop calling me dumbass, especially in messages where you show yourself to be a dumbass. E=mc2 is NOT a speed equation but an energy equation showing how energy and mass are the same thing.
Try not to embarrass yourself and let your retardation show so badly.
@tylerdurden666able "i believe you were trying to tell me how evil deeds pop up like magic. can you explain this magic seed that gives evil? im curious"
I still have no idea what you're trying to get at. Do you understand that "evil" is the same thing as "fast" - a word that describes an action, not something in itself?
@tylerdurden666able "also, you say everything has a natural explanation? can you tell me where humans descended from as well as provide the missing genetic link that can show me an unbroken line of genetics dating back to primitive monkeys? "
Humans are apes and descended from earlier ape-like ancestors. There are no "missing links" in the sense you mean. I obviously can't provide a huge chain of evidence in a 500 character text box. Go do some research, if you're not too cowardly.
@tylerdurden666able "all of them prescribe to an ancient babylonian and pagan religion."
I'm curious - do you think that this ancient babylonian and pagan religion has any actual magical power? If so, where does the power come from? And if you're going to say "The devil", where does HE get his power from, if not God himself?
If you believe all this crap, then you have to believe that the devil has powers given to him by god and god let's him do whatever he wants. That's an awesome "father".
It's ironic that you chose her, because not only was she actually a nasty bitch (go read up on the things she actually said and did - check out "Hell's Angel" by Hitchens) she died an atheist. She had lost her faith during the last 20 or so years of her life.
As for me reading stuff about god, I know the bible better than any christian I've met. It's you guys who only read like 5 tiny bits of the bible and ignore the rest.
What? When did I say that? When did I say anything LIKE that?
Is there a universal evil? No, because it's a nonsense concept. Evil is an adjective - it modifies a verb, an action. Like "fast" or "clumsy". Is there a universal "fast"? You can have an evil action, but you can't have "evil".
I also don't understand why you people think that "the golden rule" is somehow baffling. The golden rule doesn't require god, by the way.
@tylerdurden666able I'm not mad at god, he's an imaginary character, and a poorly written one at that.
My life is great. I take the blame and the credit for my life, not god.
Yes, the world runs on physical things, that's my point. There is no magic in the world, no trace of a god. Everything has a natural explanation, so God disappears along with all the other childish fairy tales.
Grow up, go learn some real science and put this childish thing away.
@tylerdurden666able "so where does evil come from? peoples minds? if so then we are in more trouble without god than with him. "
Evil isn't a thing, so it doesn't come from anywhere. Actions that we judge as evil are just what I said before - selfish and greedy. People thinking about themselves more than others. Is that confusing to you?
And how are we in more trouble without god? If God exists, then he's fine with all the bad things people do, because he does nothing to stop any of it.
everybody goes through a learning process....even god. But i will say this....the elites in the world are conditioning people to turn away from god. To blame him for all the chaos in the world. But its not god causing this. Its the product of mankind and what were becoming. And as for natural disasters....have fun.
OccamKant, I have your information on Satan. It's a non-fiction by Jeffery Burton Russell called "The Devil in the Modern World". I believe that it was through this book I first heard about the discrepencey of the Book of Job.
Maybe we cannot materially prove there is God, but we can prove that without the innate desire to collect and worship God of some sort, some form of piety towards the collective group of people working for survival, that there is an Abstract Bond, needless to say , it is Nurturing, and not Biologically necessitated , that people moved from animal behavior to building Civilizations in a Quantum Leap for the Placebo of the God that naturally attracted People into Worship of Higher Powers
I looked past into 12,000 years of human history and the first structures ever built were inspired by a need of nomadic people to collect at one place and worship. This is a proven fact, not a single city ever existed in ancient times that did not surround a Temple. The communal experience of large numbers of people, that affected them to be in one accord was worship and they then unified to build the first civilizations, the connection between Religion and Civilization is totally proven.
Twelve thousand years ago, history shows us in Turkey that the very first community ,where hunter gather people came to assemble and make a record of their existence was the creation of Temple of Worship. Religion is what caused the rise of Civilization, and not the other way around. Without an impetus to worship, humans would not have built any civilizations,and no Atheists ever did build a single city state in the ancient world, which proves Religion is the Art of Societal Collectives
There is a theory that those who make excuses for god's evil ways will burn. That includes Muslims. And that all others shall be in paradise. It makes allot more sense than the claims of the mainstream Abrahamic religions. Save yourselves! Reject THE BOOK!
You heard people say- "it will never be found", "it ain't true", "it just can't be".
I'm here to tell you these People are WRONG- I found it. Using Google Earth -
I found God's Watermarks of the REAL Garden of Eden. Look at my Channel and see the Video I made of it. I didn't point all of it out either- there are many things still hid for you to find. Come see.
if god was perfect and the whole bible is the word of god why is it when you point out certain verses that christians think your attacking there religon..if somethings perfect how can you think a verse is no good..isnt it like admitting your god isnt perfect.? say someone stands up in church and says god is love people will say halleluyah..you say god wiped out the planet theyll probably say get out..its the word of your so called god so why cant people talk about that.
for some reason its banned to talk about the god of the old testament n all verses..they call it herecy.. if you mention any of that stuff your banned from preaching at churches.. they never make movies about when jesus comes back..in the rare occasion they do such as left behind all they do is show a war between humans..you never see jesus massacring anyone. god of the old testament wiped out the whole planet and hes coming back according to the religious people to do the same
The Artist has the sole Right to paint upon his canvas, what pleases him. The critic, the Satan ,or "Accuser" has not any talent to paint anything, but he comes to speak good or evil of the work of the Artist. It is then Evil for the Critic to destroy the work of the Artist. It is not Evil for the Artist to take his own pleasure to make or break anything to which he is the author. The one who writes the story, directs the action of the characters , he makes one good and one evil.
@CarmineFragione That is an interesting point, but there is an added factor. Since God is obviously the artist in your analogy, you must also consider the fact that the objects d'art that he created are capable of independent action and feeling pleasure and pain. We can suffer, and are capable of conscious thought.
If your creation is inanimate, like a painting, then I agree, it's your right to do with it what you want.
But you have no right to induce suffering, even in your own creatures.
@CarmineFragione As an Artist I must take exception to your ignorant bleatings concerning MY vocation, my sole chosen path to salvation. For the record, Art in all its forms is OLDER than religeon....in any of its paleolithic expressions.
@bryanttillman the Artist has proprietorship of the mass of his creation, and as the potter and wheel upon which he makes his craft , he can make one object for one use and another for any other use, and if his pleasure is so, he can crush the pot under foot. You may not like that your very being is owned by a higher placebo of will, that you do not have any say about, Art is a form of religion , it reflects how we feel about the creation, and that is a religious feeling, in response.
The evil bloodthirsty megalomaniac god of the bible. "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men,… “ Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children” Ezekiel 9:5-7
“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.” Isaiah 13:15-18. “Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3
Ok ,do god know every thing? No.It doesn't know every thing,why?because our realm will be very different then how we imagine it.Only in our imagination we make
things look and feel comprehensible to the level of reasoning.We are judging god actions by our mental nature instead of having a broader perspective view of the situation.End of part one
let make this clear God is not EVIL -Man IS! otherwise God will not be mantling in humanity affair. Satan is invention of man and woman 50/50.Jesus! you people are really descendents of monkey!
God is evil
dwaresacksqb 1 week ago
haha, Satan was totally trolling God.
mattjames2111 2 weeks ago
laughing at the comments
Primus2X 3 weeks ago
well said, I've been doing research for this very topic. I'm going to make an animation/typographic concerning Satan's "supposed" wickedness. The way I see it is comparable to a serial killer telling me that person X is wicked, evil and deceitful. I'm not going to take his word on it, because he has killed so many so who is he to judge what is good or bad. God has done so much damage, killed newborn children, and enslaved those who don't obey him blindly. Why is he praised? out of fear?
HAZFRAME 1 month ago
@OccamKant I am not close minded, I am just happy that I believe ...that i found God after so many years of living so desperately, seeking for something that woul fill up this empty hole my life has left inside of me...If you will have a point, I will say that... but you didn´t tell my what are your reasons for not believing in God...so, please tell me..what are they? (no smiley faces, thumbs up?)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE You are close minded because you said that nothing I say can change your mind. That's what close minded means.
As for me - I don't believe in god because there is no reason to believe it. No god story I've heard from any religion is believable. I choose to believe what is provable, what there is evidence for. That's why we have computers today - because of scientific thinking and evidence. So I'm very concerned with what is *actually* true, with evidence and reason.
OccamKant 1 month ago 2
@TheATILE "seeking for something that woul fill up this empty hole my life has left inside of me"
It sounds like you've had some nasty life experiences, and for that I'm sorry. But I honestly think it would be healthier for you to find strength and comfort in the real world, with real people, than to invoke a happy fantasy.
Not everything that makes you happy is automatically good. Drugs apparently make you happy too, but I don't think you'd want to take them.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant do you think you are 100% right? No, I am not saying ALL in the Bible is nonsense.I see a problem in all religions. I have my reasons and I feel really strongly about them.I do believe and nothing you say will make any difference. But I kind of get your point and it´s a good one.Are you really interested in my opinions, or are you only trying to proove that I am wrong? Are you willing to listen and accept, or you will turn everything I say into something I didn´t want to say? :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "do you think you are 100% right? "
About what? It depends.
"I do believe and nothing you say will make any difference."
So you are, by definition, close minded. You have closed your mind to anything that may change it. Too bad.
"interested in my opinions, or are you only trying to proove that I am wrong? "
I'm interested in the truth. If you can show me something I haven't seen yet, you may change my mind.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@TheATILE "Are you willing to listen and accept, or you will turn everything I say into something I didn´t want to say? :) "
I'm definitely not trying to do that. That's called "straw-manning" and I'm not interested. When I repeat back my version of what you're saying, I'm telling you what I'm hearing from you, or what the logical implication of what you're saying is. If you disagree, fine, tell me why.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant no, I don´t..I have my personal feeling...you can call it imagination, but I call it my faith.. you won´t get it, you didn´t go through the same things as I did, but i know for sure He helps me a lot..and I am still searching my faith and the right path, I don´t have to have everything proved... I just live my best :) now, i have a question.. do you live your best? are you happy and satisfied with your life?
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE Yes, I am happy and satisfied with my life. The reason I make these videos isn't because of some problem I feel internally, but rather the fact that I see religion as dangerous and counter productive to civilized society, and I'm trying to get people to see that.
So basically, you have in your own imagination, for no good reason, an idea of what you think God is. So are you not at all concerned about what's actually true?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant The bible stories are just extreme religious spin applied to natural events. People like TheATILE who are emotionally needy are the victims of this spin. And then these victims try to make more victims.
MrRedthief 1 month ago
@MrRedthief "People like TheATILE who are emotionally needy are the victims of this spin."
Well, to be fair, sometimes when people go through a lot, they reach out to whatever they can find to help them through their troubled times. I do understand this, and although I can be harsh sometimes in my responses (I do have a temper. My bad), I can't fault someone for trying to find a way to deal with pain.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant I totally know what you mean. My wife fits that example because of the tragedy she went through as a kid.
MrRedthief 1 month ago
@OccamKant I don´t think so because I don´t think God is like that... I don´t believe that He would send you to the deepest hell just like that, I don´t think that every single move in person´s life is a sin, as the Bible claims...but it has got some good points, for example, some situations there are pretty didactic for life i think..
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I don´t think so because I don´t think God is like that."
Ok - why don't you think God is like that? The bible says he is. Do you have some other source of information on what God is like? Or are you just going off your own imagination and wishful thinking?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant I should not do whatever, blieving in God doesn´t mean believin in everything pope and church tells us to do.. I don´t fully believe in it, because I don´t think it´s 100% God´s word...that´s my answer..i am not saying I am smarter than God, I am saying I feel being lied to by the whole christian community... I just said I do believe in GOD Himself..
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I don´t fully believe in it, because I don´t think it´s 100% God´s word...that´s my answer"
Yes. I KNOW you said that. But WHY don't you think it's 100% god's word?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant could you stop being rude to me? obviously, I am not English native speaker, so of course there will be some grammatical mistakes, I was really trying to have DEBATE about a topic here with you, but you are just being plain rude to me...if you call this intelligence, okay then.. You just want to insult every single thing about me...it was smiley faces, now you are doing this? okay what´s bad about me next?what do you have to insult me? Just go on..and be satisfied with yourself..
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "You just want to insult every single thing about me."
Actually, I don't. The smiley thing was because it's actually really annoying seeing all those smileys in a message that is obviously not a happy one. It makes you seem like a jerk. Just make your points. One smiley per message should be enough.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant hahaha best joke ever :D :D :D :D So you think you are the only one that´s intelligent right? :D yeah, in this entire world!! :D IT WAS IRONY I think i know this one better than you ;-) ;-) or, do YOU know ME more than I do? Oh, you know everything wooow :) good for you darling :) (irony!!!Just in case you "intelligent" yourself didn´t get it)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE You're using sarcasm, not irony, moron.
And when you put these smilies in sarcastically, it reverses the sense of what you're saying. For example:
"IT WAS IRONY I think i know this one better than you ;-)"
If you are using SARCASM, then you reverse the meaning of this sentence, and admit that you don't know it better than me.
Do you understand?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant I am not a hypocrite :) I told you I believe in God in the other way... In my own way :) And i explained it to you, that I believe in Him and I don´t really believe in church and Vatikan, I think that even during the French revolution in 17th century, they already saw declension from original commision of the Church..That´s why I am not very into the whole Bible thing, because i don´t believe that everything in it is 100% God´s word..
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "And i explained it to you, that I believe in Him and I don´t really believe in church and Vatikan"
You've explained nothing. You've made statements, that's not an explanation. I asked WHY you don't accept the whole bible. I know that you don't - I can read. I asked WHY you don't. If the bible is god's word, then you should accept it. If you don't think it's god's word, why don't you? Are you saying you're smarter than god?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant Do not say you don´t do it, when you always do your: "three words out of 300" and then you talk only about them, so don´t lie to yourself you do it to..."I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100%" tihs is what you took out of my text, even though I said: for these particular times right after that :) you know what? I get that people have different opinions..I don´t take your away from you..You ask me, I answer and you´re not willing to listen..such a shame
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100%" tihs is what you took out of my text, even though I said: for these particular times right after that "
My question remains. Your adding "for these particular times" changes nothing. Why do you believe the perfect and inviolate word of god is no longer 100% valid? I don't believe in god, so I can ignore the whole thing. But you claim to believe - so how can you leave some behind? Hypocrite.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant I fyou knew what irony was, you would actually see why are those faces smiling, you have just nothing left to say, that´s why you´re focusing on my smiley faces, it doesn not look dumb..I´m not even saying that you are wrong, you are living as good as you can and I mean, good for you! :) and yes, you ARE the most arrogant, because so far, I´ve met only people who are willing to listen and THINK just for a second that people might have different opinions than they do..Okay, I´ll answer
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I fyou knew what irony was, you would actually see why are those faces smiling"
I understand irony very well, thanks. Enough to know that you weren't being ironic, and now you're just trying to save face. Give it up.
Too bad you are confusing my refusal to buy BS as arrogance. Too bad you haven't met any intelligent people until now.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I fyou knew what irony was, you would actually see why are those faces smiling"
I understand irony very well, thanks. Enough to know that you weren't being ironic, and now you're just trying to save face. Give it up.
Too bad you are confusing my refusal to buy BS as arrogance. Too bad you haven't met any intelligent people until now.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant that´s you..you take ONE sentence out of one hundred and make one bilion wuestions about it, without getting the context of it :) whatever... yeah, you are so smart and wise and SO SO SO RIGHT!! Yeah the whole world agrees with you, you are the BEST!! :) HIGH FIVE for being the most arrogant human being I have ever met :-*** yeahhhhh :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE I take what sentence out of a hundred? You should give me a sentence - you know, for context, so I know what you're referring to. Like you keep whining about.
*I* don't take anything out of context buddy. That would be dishonest. I'm not saying I'm smart or wise - I'm asking questions that you guys apparently are incapable of answering. Not my fault if you don't have what it takes to answer.
And it's unlikely I'm the most arrogant person you've met. Stop lying.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant The truth hurts (him). Sounds like a whiny little school kid. Better he/she run off and play (some more). Win-win for everyone, especially me reading such a twisted discourse of ill logic skills and false accusations. Whew!
gr8vibes2 1 month ago
@OccamKant are you like..mentally okay? :D I did not say any of that, you did... I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100% for these sick times :) stop being offensive, you are not know-it-all.. You are acting like you were better than me and I see no point in fighting with you :) Have a nice life, I hope you will wake up before it will be too late for you :) Think that you are the best and only one that´s right...whatever... I really tried, bye.. :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE Here's a tip - stop using so many smiley faces. It looks really dumb, and dishonest, since you're obviously upset, not happy.
I'm just telling the truth. If you find that offensive, well, that's your problem.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I believe in Bible, I just don´t believe that everything in it is 100%"
And I'll ask you AGAIN - why not? What possible excuse do you have for NOT accepting the word of god as 100% true?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant it´s not MY Bible, I don´t believe in everything in it, I just believe in my own way... look, I can see where you are coming from, it´s hard to believe in God when you see all of the hate around you, and people fighting and innocent dying...but...you spread the hate around, I was just trying to explain my point of view to you...
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE Why don't you believe the bible? What right do you have to override the word of god? Are you smarter than god? Are you wiser, or more holy, or more just than god?
Or is it that you actually know it's all bullshit?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant Bible is full of methaphores..it all are only pictures, that are trying to tell us something..It´s not like what´s there is 100% accurate or 100% right... it ´s just something what takes you on a right path through your life :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "It´s not like what´s there is 100% accurate or 100% right"
So the bible ISN'T the word of god? If it's not 100% right, how right is it? 75%? 50%? 0%? If it's not right, why doesn't god fix it so it IS right? What kind of a useless idiot is god, that he lets his supposed user manual be full of errors?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant Oh, is it like that?? You don´t even believe in satan? Then, why are we fighting over here? that doesn´t make any sense...
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE Of course I don't believe in satan. But you do, I guess. And I'm just pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about if you think God is a good guy, and I'm backing up my statements with bible quotes.
Oh yeah, you haven't read your own bible. Go figure.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant and I can see you don´t have any more arguments left, well, right then :) I am not judging you, we all have different life stories, I just wonder what´s happened to you that you hate God so much..that you can not see the Truth.. that´s okay, He loves you anyways :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "that´s okay, He loves you anyways"
Really? Isn't he going to burn me in hell because I'm not kissing his ass like you are?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant I´m not kissing anyone´s ass, don´t be so rude. i am trying to have intelligent talk with you here..No, He´s not going to burn you in hell.. you will do it :) He does not punish, He forgives :) That´s why He´s so awesome :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "No, He´s not going to burn you in hell.. you will do it "
Lol - right. So - after I die, I will wake up in the afterworld, see heaven and hell, and just decide to walk my ass into hell instead? You mean, the bible doesn't say that God will cast me into the eternal flames... wait a minute! It DOES say that God will cast me into the eternal flames!
So, apparently you should read your bible because you don't know what you're talking about.
OccamKant 1 month ago
God is the only Hope people have :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "God is the only Hope people have :) "
Wow. That is a very sad statement on your life. I have no god, and tons of hope about a lot of things. If God is your only hope, you may be suicidal.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant I tihnk it´s really sad that you look as a really smart, intelligent person and still, you´re not willing to hear what is a 17 years old saying :) I did not believe in God as well.. you don´t want to know what must´ve happened for me to have my eyes opened :) I have happy and fulfilled life, beause I believe that God will get me through anything :) You have God, you just don´t believe in Him :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "you´re not willing to hear what is a 17 years old saying"
Of course I'm willing to hear what you're saying. Your problem is that you're not listening to what I'M saying. Also - that you're just repeating what millions of other blind followers have said before you.
Try to come up with an original thought, will you? And also respond to what I'm actually saying?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant Okay, I´ll tell you something :) I have never ever ever ever read the Bible :) I don´t even own one,..I don´t go to church on regular basis...my relationship with God is only me and Him.. Maybe, we all are saying the same things, because we feel the same way :) did you think about that? :) You only see the bad, but what about the nice things that happen every single day?I was just like you.I blamed God for everything bad what happaned..but one day, I realized.
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "I was just like you.I blamed God for everything bad what happaned."
No, you're nothing like me. I don't believe God exists. I don't blame him for anything. I'm just saying that the character of God, in the bible, is more evil than the character of Satan in the bible.
They are both make believe characters, like harry potter & voldemort.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@TheATILE "Okay, I´ll tell you something :) I have never ever ever ever read the Bible :) I don´t even own one"
Hmm. Well, do you call yourself a Christian, or something else? If you're a Christian, it's pretty sad that you've never read the bible, and don't own one. It's God's word, after all. Don't you think that his word is important?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@TheATILE Religious people are immoral. First they believe the lie that there is a god and the supernatural. Then they try to force that lie on everyone else. God is the only Hope people have is the lie that you believe.
MrRedthief 1 month ago
actually, He is not responsible for ANYTHING...God gave us free motion, we can do whatever we want to, it´s upon us if we take things for granted or make them into God´s piece :) You shouldn´t be talking about things you don´t understand, because clearly, you are just some realy close minded human being :) OPEN your eyes and stop trying to find who is guilty, and start trying to be more open minded..I let you tell your opinion to me, so you let me say MY opinion.. God is not worse than Satan..
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "He is not responsible for ANYTHING...God gave us free motion, we can do whatever we want to"
What would you think of a person who stood by and watched a rape happen? Particularly if that person was, say, a very skilled kung fu fighter and would not be at risk by stopping the rape? That person would be legally considered to be aiding and abetting the rapist, if they didn't try to stop the rape.
Since God is supposedly capable of stopping rapes, and doesn't, he's guilty.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant no, he´s not..the person´s guilty :) The person had a choice :) so, poor argument on that one :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "no, he´s not..the person´s guilty :) The person had a choice "
Listen - if you're going to respond to something I'm saying, at least do me the favor of actually READING what I said.
If someone is able to stop a crime and doesn't, they are considered guilty of it by aiding and abetting.
If God is supposedly capable of stopping crimes but doesn't, then he is JUST AS GUILTY as someone who stood by and watched a rape happen. Personal volition has NOTHING to do with it.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant HE IS NOT GUILTY BECAUSE HE GAVE IS FREE MIND!!!! I hope with caps lock, you will finally get it :) HE GAVE US FREE MIND! WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT!! because that´s how it is! It´s on us if we do right or WRONG so stop repeating yourself :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@TheATILE "HE IS NOT GUILTY BECAUSE HE GAVE IS FREE MIND!"
Wow. You really don't understand the simplest bits of logic do you?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant and if this person wouldn´t help, I don´t think it´s God´s fault, i see it like it´s more of Satan´s credit :)
TheATILE 1 month ago
@OccamKant Good point. Rape, physical abuse and murder continue to this day, so much for Jesus dying for our sins or Noah's flood. And so much for the mighty and righteous biblical God for preventing any of this. But God LOVES us! Who did he say has the closed mind again?
gr8vibes2 1 month ago
@gr8vibes2 "And so much for the mighty and righteous biblical God for preventing any of this. "
Yep. Not only does he supposedly stand by and watch all this happen, he's going to BBQ EVERYONE who isn't following the exact right path. Nice guy!
I really don't understand what is so appealing about this guy to Christians.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant The problem is they never hear logic in chuch, but only cherry picked tiny passages and songs for further truth distractions. (The passages have to be tiny since the bible is chock full of contradictions, but then again, these guys are so brain-washed that it wouldn't matter anyway lol.)
gr8vibes2 1 month ago
OccamKant (2) The story of Job teaches us many things about satan:
1. Satan works on legality. He uses the legal foothold afforded by Jobs constant fear and sin-consciousness to bring accusations against Job.
2. God allowed the testing, bcos Satan had the legal right to do so.
3. Satan brought the destructions, God set the limits in his mercy.
4. God restored, double from what satan had taken.
Read the story more carefully, and you will be able to understand all these.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
OccamKant
The serpent was not Satan, but was possessed by Satan to tempt Eve. The serpent was cursed bcos it ALLOWED it's mouth to be used by Satan.
Satan was working for God, and your prove is simply bcos satan "stood at the right hand of God"? That's your logic? So, whenever you happen to stand at somebody's right side, you're working for him?
Satan get to stand there bcos that was the place where Adam should be standing. Adam surrendered his position to Satan when he chose to sin.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan Where does it say that the serpent was possessed? Where does it say he was acting any way but on his own?
Of COURSE satan is working for god! If not, god would just magically take away his powers, no? Where do Satan's powers come from, if not from God? God knows all, is all present and all powerful, so if Satan went "free agent" God would just lock him up and take away his toys.
So yes, Satan is an agent of God, doing God's bidding. God, in your bible, is behind all.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "satan's power"
When God created man, God gave man "dominion" over all the earth. When Adam & Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, man surrendered this authority to satan. That's where this power come from. He took our authority.
Why God can't just take away his powers? Well, he can. But God too follows legality. Satan obtained it legally (albeit by deceit), so God can't simply take it away. It had to be done legally as well.
Thank God, God eventually got it back for us..
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan Satan wasn't in eden, it was a serpent. Go read your bible.
How would anyone listing to someone give that someone magical powers? You said "that's where this power come from". Satan supposedly has magical powers, as shown in the book of Job. These powers came from Adam and Eve listening to a snake?
"Satan obtained it legally (albeit by deceit)." What are you talking about? First, that makes no sense. Second, it doesn't appear anywhere in the bible.
Stop imagining things.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "magical powers"
When God created Adam, He gave man "dominion over the earth" (Genesis 1:26). This is the power which was surrendered to satan when Adam listened to satan's lies, ie. obeyed satan instead of God.
Satan wasn't in eden? Well, the bible said satan was a murderer and a liar from the beginning. (John 8.44).
Satan was the "ancient serpent" (Revelation 12.9, 20.2)
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan Satan wasn't in eden.
Perhaps you're unaware of the metaphorical nature of the bible. At least, that's what people keep telling me when I show them passages like where Jesus says to sell everything and give the money away.
How, exactly, do you tell which passages are metaphorical and which are literal?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant
Well, we must look at the passage and how the word/phrase was used. It must be based on the context.
eg. serpent can used to describe the characteristics of a person. But if the word is more specific, like "ancient serpent", we can't interpret it the same way.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan So Jesus says, at least 3 separate times, to sell all your belongings and give the money away. It's as plain as day, and as specific as you can possibly be.
So have you sold all your stuff and given the money away. Do you hate your family, like Jesus tells you to do?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "sell all your belongings."
Are you trying to change topic?
But it's okay, I can go along with you. Can you quote to me the scripture reference for all the 3 times Jesus said this? And, state also to whom Jesus was talking to?
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "But it's okay, I can go along with you. Can you quote to me the scripture reference for all the 3 times Jesus said this? And, state also to whom Jesus was talking to?"
It doesn't matter who he was talking to. He gives general commands, not specific to one person. Love thy neighbor, for example, is never considered to be aimed at one person.
The "Consider the Lillies" speech is one place, the "eye of the needle" is the other, and I'll have to dig up the third.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "consider the lilies"
This is taken from what we call "sermon on the mount" in Matthew 6.25-34.
The passage is actually teaching us not to worry, bcos we have a heavenly Father who cares for us.
This is addressed to all believers, but never did Jesus ask us to "give away all our money".
In fact, in verse 32 it says, "For the pagans run after all these things (clothes, food, money etc), and your heavenly Father KNOWS THAT YOU NEED THEM."
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@OccamKant "eye of the needle"
This story is on point, but I'll come back to discuss it later.
"not to store up earthly treasures"
Matthew 6.19-18, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy.... But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven... For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
"do not store up treasures" - Honestly tell me, is this the same as "give away all your money"? "don't keep any possession"?
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan ""do not store up treasures" - Honestly tell me, is this the same as "give away all your money"? "don't keep any possession"?"
Of course. And it's exactly what his disciples did.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "eye of the needle"
Back to this: The story is about a "rich young ruler"
Mark 10.17-31.
This story is on point, where Jesus asked him to "Go, sell all your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (v. 21)
But notice, Jesus didn't say this as a teaching to everybody. It was spoken specifically to him alone. It was a one off incident, spoken to just one person.
Not everything is applicable to everybody.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "But notice, Jesus didn't say this as a teaching to everybody. It was spoken specifically to him alone. It was a one off incident, spoken to just one person."
Yes, he was speaking to one guy. So what? EVERY SINGLE OTHER thing Jesus said supposedly applies to everyone. You guys just don't want to follow this one because you don't want to be poor.
If EVERYTHING ELSE Jesus says applies to everyone, then this obviously does too.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "Not everything is applicable to everybody."
Jesus didn't write anything down. Whenever he talked, he was talking to someone. If you're going to argue that the "sell everything" command was to that one guy alone, then EVERYTHING only applies to the people in his immediate vicinity.
Which means that NOTHING Jesus said applies to you AT ALL.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "nothing applies at all"
When we read the passage, the manner in which Jesus said it, we can know whether it's meant for all believers, or for specific persons at a specific time.
Eg. Jesus told one blind man to "Go wash in the pool of Siloam." This definitely is meant for him alone. It's absurd to say it applies to all believers, that all must go and wash in the pool of Siloam.
On the other hand, Jesus said, "Love one another, as I have loved you." - it applies to all.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "Are you trying to change topic?"
No - I'm just pointing out that you guys are usually quite hypocritical when it comes to biblical interpretation. You interpret the bible however you want. You interpret it in whatever way fits your current desires.
According to all the Christians I've spoken to, it's ok to make the bible say whatever you want it to say.
To me, that's really weak, but whatever floats your boat.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "hypocritical"
I do agree with you. Some Christians are like that, regrettably. But we all learn as we grow.
I believe in interpreting the bible by studying it as a whole, quoting relevant passages to establish a point. (I hope you notice every point I made is supported by scripture)
If you want to say my interpretation is wrong, you have to use the scripture to refute me. It's not good enough to say "God lied", or "bible is fairy tales". To me, that's weak also.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "(I hope you notice every point I made is supported by scripture)"
No, it's not. You said a lot about sacrifice in the book of Genesis, and NONE of what you said was supported in scripture, it was all a completely unsupported extrapolation from the fact that God supposedly provided them with skins and how YOU think God got those skins. You can't extrapolate from your own guesses.
Also how Satan was somehow in the garden, even though there is no scripture to support it.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant none supported by scripture
Wow! I quoted Genesis, OT laws on atonement sacrifices (generally, there were many verses to refer to each), NT book of Hebrews - all to support my case.
Then you said, "None was supported by scripture". Wow! simply amazing! You didn't say anything to refute me or to explain how I was wrong, but instead simply a bare denial.
How deluded you are. Atheism has done all these to you.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "Wow! I quoted Genesis, OT laws on atonement sacrifices "
You quoted some things that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. Do you know what the phrase "non-sequitur" means?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "If you want to say my interpretation is wrong, you have to use the scripture to refute me. It's not good enough to say "God lied""
I did use scripture, that's the point. God said to... someone - his angels? that he didn't want them to eat the fruit because they would be like gods with their eyes opened, but he told Adam and Eve that they would die instead. The serpent told them the truth, that their eyes would be opened. They didn't die - their eyes were opened.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "I did use scripture"
That's exactly my point. You DIDN'T USE any scripture. Where did it say that God told someone that "he didn't want them to eat the fruit bcos they would be like gods with their eyes opened."
Thanks for proving my point. Can't you see this? You're the one making things up, imagining things that were not there. Your views were not supported by bible at all.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "Where did it say that God told someone that "he didn't want them to eat the fruit bcos they would be like gods with their eyes opened.""
Genesis 3:22
OccamKant 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan ""bible is fairy tales". To me, that's weak also."
The bible IS filled with fairy tales. We know the flood didn't happen - there's no way it COULD happen. Every single statement about the flood story is false. Tower of babel? Never happened. The Jews were never in egypt, so the whole Exodus story obviously never happened.
And when Jesus died - 500 zombies climbed out of their graves and marched on Jerusalem? Riiight.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "the flood didn't happen"
In all major civilizations there's a legend of a flood. I know there's one in the chinese legends. Coincidence? Well, Jesus referred to it as a real historical event.
Tower of Babel - no evidence, except for the variety of our speeches we still have today. (living evidence).
Talking about that, there's a very fascinating study about the link between ancient chinese characters with the stories in Genesis. It's as if the creators of these characters
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "In all major civilizations there's a legend of a flood. I know there's one in the chinese legends."
So, let me get this straight. You're actually trying to propose that the chinese people, as a whole, were wiped out with a genocidal flood, and then somehow WEREN'T wiped out by this flood and were able to write about it?
Interesting.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "ancient chinese characters"
It's as if the creators knew about the stories in Genesis. There's too many similarities to be simply written off as "mere coincidences".
"Jews were never in egypt". How did you know? No records that they have been there doesn't mean they've never been there. Esp. when there were some records (disputable i know, but still something..)
All these stories we can't prove definitely that it happened, but you can't prove that they didn't either.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "It's as if the creators knew about the stories in Genesis. There's too many similarities to be simply written off as "mere coincidences"."
Creators of what - the chinese character set? This "similarity with genesis" is a completely made up creationist story. And of course it makes no sense. The chinese language and character set are far OLDER than the bible and even when the world was supposedly created. Get real.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "500 zombies"
Matt 27.52 "..many holy people were raised to life... appeared to many people."
Not zombies. Living talking people. They were raised to life, and went around the people. Then they left for heaven together with Jesus.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "Not zombies. Living talking people. They were raised to life"
Guess what? People who have been dead for some time that have been raised to life is the DEFINITION of zombie. You can be dead for up to 8 minutes and be revived without damage, but if you've been buried, then you are already a rotting corpse. Make that walk around, and it's zombietime.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan The third time was when Jesus said not to store up earthly treasures but to store up heavenly ones.
So there you go - 3 separate speeches where Jesus tells you that material wealth, and indeed having anything at all, is against what he's all about. That you're supposed to give up EVERYTHING, including your family, and basically be a street preaching bum, if you want to follow him.
Do you have enough faith to do it?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "street preaching bum"
Not 3, just a one-off incident. The other 2 examples you gave were off-point. Jesus was addressing a specific issue with this rich guy. Jesus asked him to sell all, to reveal to him where his heart is.
You've got it all wrong, bro. In fact, God wanted his children to PROSPER so that we can be a testimony of God's goodness. God blesses his children so we can be a blessing to others.
(You too are invited! It's free and it's just a prayer away)
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "Not 3, just a one-off incident. The other 2 examples you gave were off-point. "
No they weren't. They're all about not having material possessions, and instead having spiritual ones. It's incredibly obvious.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "all about not having material possessions"
How? I quoted to you the verses and explained how they were talking about different things altogether.
Now, tell me how it is "incredibly obvious." You must explain where does it say that, how does it say that. To me, as I have explained, its so incredibly obviously not.
If you still can't come up with anything, I'll conclude that you can't argue at all. No debater worth his salt will make conclusions without reason.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "How? I quoted to you the verses and explained how they were talking about different things altogether."
No, you didn't.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "And, state also to whom Jesus was talking to?"
Don't for get the rest of what Jesus said to the crowd during the "sell everything" speech - you know, the CONTEXT: He turns to the crowd and says that it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle (ie - impossible) than it is for a rich man to enter heaven (ie impossible).
And certainly, by the standards of what people had during Jesus' time, you right now are wealthy beyond measure. No heaven for you!
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "impossible"
It's not impossible bcos Jesus specifically said, "When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matt 19.25-26)
First of all, let me establish that it is not difficult at all to be saved (ie. enter the kingdom of heaven). I told you that it's just a prayer away, and it's true.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@OccamKant "impossible" (2)
Romans 10.9: "If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
That's it! Believe in your heart, confess with your mouth - you're saved. Not difficult at all. Good example, one of the criminal crucified with Jesus, just believed him and said, "Lord, remember me.." and that was all that's needed.
If so easy, why not more people get saved? Bcos they simply REFUSED TO BELIEVE.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@OccamKant "impossible" (3)
So, why is it hard (ok, very hard) for a rich man to be saved? It's bcos they trust in their riches. They think "I don't need God". So, they simply refused to believe. But, as Jesus said, it's not impossible. God can change their hearts.
Me, on the other hand, Praise God, I'm already saved! I've already "entered the kingdom of heaven", or rather, the kingdom of heaven is already within me (Luke 17.21)
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "serpent can used to describe the characteristics of a person. But if the word is more specific, like "ancient serpent", we can't interpret it the same way."
So if I call you an ancient serpent, does that automatically mean you were the serpent in the garden of eden?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "If I call you an ancient serpent"
No, it doesn't work that way.
We are not talking about calling names here. We are talking about bible interpretation.
So, when Revelation says, Satan = "ancient serpent", then it is sound exegesis to refer it to the serpent in the book of Genesis, to say that it was referring to the serpent from the ancient times, ie. that serpent.
It is not too far fetched to say that satan had some connection with the serpent in eden.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan "So, when Revelation says, Satan = "ancient serpent", then it is sound exegesis to refer it to the serpent in the book of Genesis, to say that it was referring to the serpent from the ancient times, ie. that serpent."
Please explain why you can interpret this literally, and the part where Jesus tells you to sell everything and give the money away as metaphorical.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "give the money"
I've never said it was metaphorical. You've probably confused with the answer given by another.
No, I don't think it was metaphorical. I think it was a literal command. BUT it was not a general command given to all believers. I'll explain in the post where you cited the examples when Jesus said it.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@OccamKant How God took it back:
Where Adam had lost it by his disobedience, our second Adam (Jesus) had by His perfect obedience, even to the cross, had by His death brought back this authority.
Now satan had been effectively "disarmed", and the authority now is given to the church.
I don't know how familiar you are with the bible, but if you are know the bible rather well, it's so exciting! To see all these fits like a beautiful tapestry.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
@ArdenKuan I do know the bible, and I know that you're speaking nonsense.
You are just making all this nonsense up. None of it actually appears in the bible, and you can't even read between the lines to get here - you have to completely imagine this all without any attachment to reality.
If this is what passes for theology these days, then I have to say that they've gone right off the deep end. This is beyond just faith and right into fantasy.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant "making up nonsense"
You can't say something is nonsense simply bcos you can't comprehend it yet. Maybe you haven't studied the bible enough? Maybe you didn't think through it enough?
It's okay. Let's go through it again. Which part do you not understand? Perhaps I can explain it more clearly? Let's take it one point at a time.
ArdenKuan 1 month ago
You don't even know what your saying, get on your knee's and pray some more. :P
TheWiseTheOld 1 month ago
@TheWiseTheOld "You don't even know what your saying, get on your knee's and pray some more."
Your ignorance is certainly explained by the fact that you think you can learn something by praying.
Here's a protip - you can't.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@OccamKant Your ignorance is that you won't believe. That is why God doesn't choose everyone because people like you who lead many astray are too ignorant to the easiest act..to pray. The grace of understanding. Profound am I so young and yet I believe in God so much I have not lived past 20 have stared death in the face to witness that my job here is not done and my job is not for me to say but I believe that men like you are lost but is not quite forgotten. I will pray for you.:) You will see.
TheWiseTheOld 1 month ago
@TheWiseTheOld "Your ignorance is that you won't believe."
That doesn't make any sense. You can say "your PROBLEM" is that you won't believe", if you want, but you can't say "your ignorance".
"That is why God doesn't choose everyone because people like you who lead many astray are too ignorant to the easiest act"
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here.
OccamKant 1 month ago
Shows much you really know. God created Satan as part of your test. God knows man will try to find flaws and justify himself. God is all knowing, All powerful and He is perfect. God allows suffering because of FREE WILL. Man does it to themselves. Isn't that obvious? I think it's great people think God is this and that because it's all the more reason for Satan to exist so you numbed nuts can join him and burn for eternity. I believe in One God in Three Divine beings. Suffering is true happiness
TheWiseTheOld 1 month ago
@TheWiseTheOld "God allows suffering because of FREE WILL. Man does it to themselves."
That doesn't explain natural disasters, or disease.
How is the victim of a rape doing it to him or herself? How is their free will involved, exactly?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "E=mc2 states that if you accelerate to the speed of sound..."
No it doesn't. Jesus you're stupid. There is no 'v' term in that equation, so there is no place for you to enter your speed. There is an 'm' term, for you to put in your mass. E=mc2 relates to the instantaneous conversion of matter to energy. This is what we find in the atomic bomb.
The lorentz transformations describe what happens to a body that comes close to the speed of light.
Go back to school.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able You are an idiot. I never said that there were no evil actions, I said that there was no such thing as "evil" and it doesn't "come from" anywhere, any more than "fast" comes from somewhere.
Do you understand, you drooling moron?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "tell me how mother teresa was in fact a piece of shit."
First, she told lies about condoms. She spread ignorance and fear about this, because of her catholic heritage. Then, in her "sanitarium" in india, she did nothing to actually cure any of her patients, she just let them die, when in some cases simple procedures would have actually made them well.
Sounds evil to me.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able Wow - you are now completely incoherent.
You need help, or something. Probably a diaper.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "and yes there is a missing link between homosapien and homo erectus sooooooooo again, are you fucking retarded?"
No, there isn't. And apparently it's you who's retarded, since you are spouting bullshit that was disproven over a hundred years ago.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "then how come the golden rule slipped by manson? if it doesn't require god to obey, how come all of us intelligent humans dont obey it?"
The golden rule slipped by manson? What are you babbling about? Which manson? Slipped by? Are you fucked in the head or what?
Why don't we obey it? Because some people (apparently like yourself) are sociopaths. They are broken, mentally.
The golden rule came from the code of hammurabi, which predates the bible by hundreds of years.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "lol you fucking moron, yes there is a universal fast, its called E=Mc2 you dumbass. "
First - stop calling me dumbass, especially in messages where you show yourself to be a dumbass. E=mc2 is NOT a speed equation but an energy equation showing how energy and mass are the same thing.
Try not to embarrass yourself and let your retardation show so badly.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able For example: zero to sixty in 4 seconds is fast! Killing innocent babies is evil!
Do you understand? Fast and Evil describe the quality of an action. They themselves are not "things", and they do not "come from" anywhere.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "i believe you were trying to tell me how evil deeds pop up like magic. can you explain this magic seed that gives evil? im curious"
I still have no idea what you're trying to get at. Do you understand that "evil" is the same thing as "fast" - a word that describes an action, not something in itself?
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "also, you say everything has a natural explanation? can you tell me where humans descended from as well as provide the missing genetic link that can show me an unbroken line of genetics dating back to primitive monkeys? "
Humans are apes and descended from earlier ape-like ancestors. There are no "missing links" in the sense you mean. I obviously can't provide a huge chain of evidence in a 500 character text box. Go do some research, if you're not too cowardly.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "all of them prescribe to an ancient babylonian and pagan religion."
I'm curious - do you think that this ancient babylonian and pagan religion has any actual magical power? If so, where does the power come from? And if you're going to say "The devil", where does HE get his power from, if not God himself?
If you believe all this crap, then you have to believe that the devil has powers given to him by god and god let's him do whatever he wants. That's an awesome "father".
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "and who would turn out like mother teresa."
It's ironic that you chose her, because not only was she actually a nasty bitch (go read up on the things she actually said and did - check out "Hell's Angel" by Hitchens) she died an atheist. She had lost her faith during the last 20 or so years of her life.
As for me reading stuff about god, I know the bible better than any christian I've met. It's you guys who only read like 5 tiny bits of the bible and ignore the rest.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "so you are saying nothing comes from anything?"
What? When did I say that? When did I say anything LIKE that?
Is there a universal evil? No, because it's a nonsense concept. Evil is an adjective - it modifies a verb, an action. Like "fast" or "clumsy". Is there a universal "fast"? You can have an evil action, but you can't have "evil".
I also don't understand why you people think that "the golden rule" is somehow baffling. The golden rule doesn't require god, by the way.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able I'm not mad at god, he's an imaginary character, and a poorly written one at that.
My life is great. I take the blame and the credit for my life, not god.
Yes, the world runs on physical things, that's my point. There is no magic in the world, no trace of a god. Everything has a natural explanation, so God disappears along with all the other childish fairy tales.
Grow up, go learn some real science and put this childish thing away.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "so where does evil come from? peoples minds? if so then we are in more trouble without god than with him. "
Evil isn't a thing, so it doesn't come from anywhere. Actions that we judge as evil are just what I said before - selfish and greedy. People thinking about themselves more than others. Is that confusing to you?
And how are we in more trouble without god? If God exists, then he's fine with all the bad things people do, because he does nothing to stop any of it.
OccamKant 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able "im just trying to figure out who to thank for this shitty place."
What shitty place? What are you talking about? My video is about the bible, not reality. There is no god or satan in reality.
The world we live in was formed by natural forces, and then recently we came on the scene and started messing it up.
Is that what you mean? If so, then the pollution and exploitation is due to greed and selfishness.
OccamKant 1 month ago
everybody goes through a learning process....even god. But i will say this....the elites in the world are conditioning people to turn away from god. To blame him for all the chaos in the world. But its not god causing this. Its the product of mankind and what were becoming. And as for natural disasters....have fun.
skitzrone 1 month ago
the bible sais false profets will ris and spea blasfamse. Sofk yu. Get sum fkng sence. Yu dishit
TheSkater249 1 month ago
@TheSkater249 "the bible sais false profets will ris and spea blasfamse. Sofk yu. Get sum fkng sence. Yu dishit"
Wow. I cannot possibly overstate the irony in someone who writes like that calling me a dipshit, and telling me to get some sense.
OccamKant 1 month ago
OccamKant, I have your information on Satan. It's a non-fiction by Jeffery Burton Russell called "The Devil in the Modern World". I believe that it was through this book I first heard about the discrepencey of the Book of Job.
bryanttillman 2 months ago
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Maybe we cannot materially prove there is God, but we can prove that without the innate desire to collect and worship God of some sort, some form of piety towards the collective group of people working for survival, that there is an Abstract Bond, needless to say , it is Nurturing, and not Biologically necessitated , that people moved from animal behavior to building Civilizations in a Quantum Leap for the Placebo of the God that naturally attracted People into Worship of Higher Powers
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
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I looked past into 12,000 years of human history and the first structures ever built were inspired by a need of nomadic people to collect at one place and worship. This is a proven fact, not a single city ever existed in ancient times that did not surround a Temple. The communal experience of large numbers of people, that affected them to be in one accord was worship and they then unified to build the first civilizations, the connection between Religion and Civilization is totally proven.
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
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Twelve thousand years ago, history shows us in Turkey that the very first community ,where hunter gather people came to assemble and make a record of their existence was the creation of Temple of Worship. Religion is what caused the rise of Civilization, and not the other way around. Without an impetus to worship, humans would not have built any civilizations,and no Atheists ever did build a single city state in the ancient world, which proves Religion is the Art of Societal Collectives
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
fuck you fucken pussy ur gonna go 2 fucken hell fuck head ur gonna get ur balls chopped off fucken fairy
jpjoe100 2 months ago
@jpjoe100 hail satan.
bryanttillman 2 months ago
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YOU SPIRIT OF BELIAL I REBUKE YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS OF NAZARETH
SingAlexandra 2 months ago
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There is a theory that those who make excuses for god's evil ways will burn. That includes Muslims. And that all others shall be in paradise. It makes allot more sense than the claims of the mainstream Abrahamic religions. Save yourselves! Reject THE BOOK!
dymchurch1 3 months ago
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You heard people say- "it will never be found", "it ain't true", "it just can't be".
I'm here to tell you these People are WRONG- I found it. Using Google Earth -
I found God's Watermarks of the REAL Garden of Eden. Look at my Channel and see the Video I made of it. I didn't point all of it out either- there are many things still hid for you to find. Come see.
downyourtube 3 months ago
if god was perfect and the whole bible is the word of god why is it when you point out certain verses that christians think your attacking there religon..if somethings perfect how can you think a verse is no good..isnt it like admitting your god isnt perfect.? say someone stands up in church and says god is love people will say halleluyah..you say god wiped out the planet theyll probably say get out..its the word of your so called god so why cant people talk about that.
silverwave00 3 months ago 2
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for some reason its banned to talk about the god of the old testament n all verses..they call it herecy.. if you mention any of that stuff your banned from preaching at churches.. they never make movies about when jesus comes back..in the rare occasion they do such as left behind all they do is show a war between humans..you never see jesus massacring anyone. god of the old testament wiped out the whole planet and hes coming back according to the religious people to do the same
silverwave00 3 months ago
Well god has to threaten you so you will submit da lol
wachnathan 3 months ago
The Artist has the sole Right to paint upon his canvas, what pleases him. The critic, the Satan ,or "Accuser" has not any talent to paint anything, but he comes to speak good or evil of the work of the Artist. It is then Evil for the Critic to destroy the work of the Artist. It is not Evil for the Artist to take his own pleasure to make or break anything to which he is the author. The one who writes the story, directs the action of the characters , he makes one good and one evil.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
@CarmineFragione That is an interesting point, but there is an added factor. Since God is obviously the artist in your analogy, you must also consider the fact that the objects d'art that he created are capable of independent action and feeling pleasure and pain. We can suffer, and are capable of conscious thought.
If your creation is inanimate, like a painting, then I agree, it's your right to do with it what you want.
But you have no right to induce suffering, even in your own creatures.
OccamKant 4 months ago 13
@CarmineFragione As an Artist I must take exception to your ignorant bleatings concerning MY vocation, my sole chosen path to salvation. For the record, Art in all its forms is OLDER than religeon....in any of its paleolithic expressions.
bryanttillman 2 months ago
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@bryanttillman the Artist has proprietorship of the mass of his creation, and as the potter and wheel upon which he makes his craft , he can make one object for one use and another for any other use, and if his pleasure is so, he can crush the pot under foot. You may not like that your very being is owned by a higher placebo of will, that you do not have any say about, Art is a form of religion , it reflects how we feel about the creation, and that is a religious feeling, in response.
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
The evil bloodthirsty megalomaniac god of the bible. "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men,… “ Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children” Ezekiel 9:5-7
“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.” Isaiah 13:15-18. “Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3
This god is not love he's hate.
max2right 4 months ago
Ok ,do god know every thing? No.It doesn't know every thing,why?because our realm will be very different then how we imagine it.Only in our imagination we make
things look and feel comprehensible to the level of reasoning.We are judging god actions by our mental nature instead of having a broader perspective view of the situation.End of part one
humberlick 4 months ago
let make this clear God is not EVIL -Man IS! otherwise God will not be mantling in humanity affair. Satan is invention of man and woman 50/50.Jesus! you people are really descendents of monkey!
humberlick 4 months ago