John 7 v40-53... read it....the jews then made distinctions btw the CHRIST and the PROPHET as two different prophesies as at the time of Jesus...They(the jews) also did not believe that jesus(pbuh) was a true prophet (the messiah) because he came out of galilee... according to verse 50 thru 51 Nicodemus made it clear that their law does not judge anybody according to their tribe but what he says and does.(sooo,,it does not matter that the PROPHET have to be jew according to their law)
All you Muslims wonder how it is that we Christians believe there is only 1 God manifested in three persons. Lets just look a Jesus the Son of God who was sobordinate to God in position, office and function because he was a man, but He was equal to God in character, nature, substance, & essence. We don't know. How can God always have been. We don't know. How can water be in a solid form, liquid form, and gas form? and be of the same substance? We know, yet God created water as one substance!
(as for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against allah; and these are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
@GamerFTW21 "Surely, We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light; by its laws the Jews have been judged by the prophets who surrendered themselves to Allah, the rabbis and the doctors of law, because they were entrusted the protection of Allah's book and were witnesses thereto" (5:44). "And we gave him (Jesus) the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition to the God-fearing" (5:46)
@GamerFTW21 What we mean when we say the "Bible" is "corrupt" (not really the word we should use) is that (out of the parts of it that were the original scripture given the Moses(as) and Jesus(as) not the letters of Paul ect) somethings were added, others removed and others changed. Anything that CONTRADICTS Gods eternal message as sent to all the Prophets we muslis reject, everything else in the Bible is acceptable. Besides the Qur'an doesn't say its corrupt, quite the opposite in fact.
@GamerFTW21 So your a Christian who believes the bible is corrupt too? Are you a Catholic, Protestant, Greek Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelist or Jehovah Witness? and do you believe Christ (as) was God, or Son of God or third of three?
@GamerFTW21 Sorry but i have no interest in getting into a debate. If you want to know about the last prophet then i suggest getting a copy of MUHAMMED by Dr. Martin Lings. A great book. If your not really interested enough to do something like that then just ignore us Muslims and go your own way in life. Peace!
I think the "prophet like onto Moses" from Deut. is the same as the Messiah. I think the Pharisees & priests who questioned St. John were making a distinction b/t their own beliefs & the Samaritan's beliefs. The Samaritans didn't recognise the legitimacy of the Davidic dynasty; the anointed, or Christos, or Messianic kings. The prophets, such as Elijah or Isaiah didn't emerge until after the Davidic dynasty was established. Thus the Samaritan only believed in one coming prophet.
The problem here is when muslims such as dawahadict or anyone else read that scripture they believe that The Prophet and The Christ as 2 separate people...The Jews was wrong in that area because they believed it was 2 different people when in John 5:39-48 we see when Jesus speaking of who Moses was referring to...There is a youtube video that explains this very well watch?v=3xHJ7JEQOXQ see for yourself...and again Glorthac EXCELLENT VIDEO my brother in Christ. Take care Peace
The problem here is when muslims such as dawahadict or anyone else read that scripture they believe that The Prophet and The Christ as 2 separate people...The Jews was wrong in that area because they believed it was 2 different people when in John 5:39-48 we see when Jesus speaking of who Moses was referring to...There is a youtube video that explains this very well watch?v=3xHJ7JEQOXQ see for yourself...and again Glorthac EXCELLENT VIDEO my brother in Christ. Take care Peace
If you accept Deut 14:21 as Gods word : i suggest you do some serious soul searching -
Don't eat dead animals that you find lying around. (But it's OK to feed them to strangers, or sell them to foreigners.) And don't boil a kid (baby goat) in its mother's milk.
I think it is also worth mentioning that Deu 17:15 and 14:21 give further insight as to what 'brothers' means in Deuteronomy.
Deu 17:15 says, "...be sure to appoint over you the king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a [brother]. (NIV)"
So 'brothers' means those that are not 'foreigner.' And to see what 'foreigners' means, look at Deu 14:21, which says; "Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the Lord your God. Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk. (NIV)"
So 'foreigner' doesn't just mean someone you have a relationship with (like the lineal relationship Israelites have with Ishmaelites), but that 'foreigner' actually means someone that is not a fellow countryman—a fellow Israelite.
'Brothers' must mean those that are fellow Israelites—those whose nationality is that of Israel. Since Muhammad was an Ishmaelite, he could not have been the prophet referred to in the communication (relayed by Moses) from God to the Israelites (in Deu 18:18).
Say ye: "We believe in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that we are sincere (in our faith) in Him? Or do ye say that Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!" (Surah 2: 130-140)
"Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."
"My dear Astronomer: Deut: 14:21 does not define brother"
Strider7086, you're not even listening. It is Deu 17:15 that defines אָח ('ach - translated as brother) as 'one who is not נָכְרִי (nokriy translated as foreigner or alien).'
The only thing Deu 14:21 does is define foreigner/alien (the King James Bible translates נָכְרִי as alien in 17:15, but stranger in 14:21. It is the same word, nonetheless) as 'one who has a different country than Israel as his/her nationality.'
So Deu 17:15 defines אָח (brother) as 'one who is not נָכְרִי,' and Deu 14:21 defines נָכְרִי as 'one who is not an Israelite.'
Thus, in the context of Deuteronomy, אָח (brother) means 'one who is an Israelite.'
Since Deu 18:15 says that the prophet in question will be "of thy brethren," it clearly means or "of thy fellow Israelites." Since Muhammad was not an Israelite, he cannot have been the prophet in question.
"Ye shall not eat [of] any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger (גָּר - ger) that [is] in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien (נָכְרִי - nokriy): for thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."
Thou shalt in any wise set [him] king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: [one] from among thy brethren (אָח - 'ach) shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger (נָכְרִי - nokriy) over thee, which [is] not thy brother (אָח - 'ach).
"Unto a stranger (נָכְרִי - nokriy) thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother (אָח - 'ach) thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it."
To begin, I want to let you know that I accept most of the similarities you mentioned between Moses (as) and Jesus (as). Certainly, both being prophets of God, they would have a great deal in common. Based on that alone, Muhammad (saws) and Jesus (as) would both fit the description. However, there are some things about Jesus (as) that make him very different from Moses (as) that are worth mentioning, such as his miraculous birth, his prophethood from birth, the fact that he was rejected...
by most of the people to whom he was sent, and of course the fact that he was later deified. I didn't mention these because i didn't think it was necessary, and because the video was not a refutation of Christ (as), who, as I'm sure you know, Muslims consider to be an important prophet. What I have always found odd is that Christians actually believe this prophecy to be about Jesus (as). I mean, from a Christian perspective, Jesus (as) is NOTHING like Moses (as). You believe Jesus (as) is the...
...literal begotten son of God, as well as God Himself, as one part of a Trinity. It would seem that comparing Moses (as) to Jesus (as) would be like blasphemy, because certainly from an Islamic perspective it would be blasphemy to say that God's prophet is comparable to God.
Next, you mention that the word brethren can also refer to an inter-Israelite relationship. Again, I accept your statement, and the verse you mentioned about the Levites is clearly referring to their relationship with...
...the other Israelites. However, when the word "brethren" is mentioned in Deut 18:18, God is addressing the Children of Israel as a whole, so in this case, brethren would refer to the brethren of all the Children of Israel, so Muhammad (saws), an Ishmaelite, would fit the description, whereas Jesus (as) an Israelite, would not.
For the third point, you seemed a bit confused in your words. You mixed the criteria of the WORD of God and the NAME of God. You said, "Just because Muhammad begins...
...each Surah with 'Bismillah' doesn't mean he is actually speaking the words of God. Therefore, unless you can prove that he is truly speaking in God's name, this is outright irrelevance." "Bismillah" means "In the Name of God" so clearly this means he is speaking in the Name of God. Yet, you are right, this does not prove that he is speaking the word of God, but of course I never claimed as much. There is a great deal of proof that he was speaking the word of God, but that's a whole series...
...worth of videos. Insha'Allah I'll make them at some point, but I can send you some information on that if you like. Also, I think it's funny that you cut me off right there, before I explained how Muhammad (saws) received revelation.
Your response to the last section isn't really a logical argument. First of all, it doesn't really matter that they are asking John if he is The Prophet. As you see, the first thought is that he might be the Messiah. Only after he denies being the Messiah do...
...they suggest other prophecies that he might be fulfilling; Elijah (as), and then last, The Prophet. This in no way changes the fact that The Prophet is not an Israelite. More important here is the understanding that they are distinct prophecies. I think this is very clear.
After that, it gets kind of ridiculous. You're really on this Jew thing. I think first of all, I need to clarify the difference between Jew and Israelite. An Israelite is a descendant of Israel AKA Jacob (as). Moses...
...(as) is an Israelite. A Jew is a descendant of Judah the son of Jacob (as). Moses (as) is not a Jew, but a Levite. Also, to go back a bit, John the Baptist (as) was also a Levite, not a Jew/Judahite like Jesus (as), which was a requirement for being the Messiah.
That being said, you are innovating a false criterion for The Prophet. Moses (as) was an Israelite, and the people asked for Moses (as) at Horeb as you pointed out, yet in 18:18 God promises a Prophet "like Moses (as)" and then...
...provided the further criteria that we discussed. It is never said that the Prophet will be like Moses (as) in being descended from Jacob (as). In fact, it is specifically stated, as we've already discussed, that the Prophet will be from the BRETHREN of the Israelites, not the Israelites themselves. You can't change that, nor can you disregard it.
The reference to Deut 18:18 in Acts 3:20-23 is a mistake. Acts cannot be used to prove anything. If I may quote from Wiki, "While the precise...
...identity of the author [of Acts] is debated, the general consensus is that this work was composed by a (Koine) Greek speaking Gentile writing for an audience of Gentile Christians." The writer of Acts had no more authority to make this erroneous claim than you do.
For sure there are a number of prophecies in the Old Testament that foretell the coming of Jesus (as). Deut 18:18 just isn't one of them.
dawahaddict: Only after he denies being the Messiah do they suggest other prophecies that he might be fulfilling; Elijah (as), and then last, The Prophet. This in no way changes the fact that The Prophet is not an Israelite.
ScriptureAddict: So you believe that after denying that he was the Messiah or Elijah, two Israelite prophets whom the Jews were still expecting, they then question this Israelite prophet about being the Ishmaelite prophet that Moses allegedly promised them in Deut. 18.18?
@MBI3030 It is what it is. I am already convinced of the Qur'an without this. I delve into these prophecies as further evidence, but I do not require it for my belief. I think it is particularly interesting to Jews and Christians to see that Muhammad (saws) was mentioned by the previous prophets.
Do you have something to add to the conversation that has not already been mentioned, or are you planning to repeat what Glorthac has already said?
by this statement, you never read the New Testament. Allow me to channledge you, read the entire New Testament, and ask yourself a simple: Does the New Testament about Jesus be the same Islamic Jesus?
Be a young man of integirity and read the sources. I have and have given my life to this.
you honestly do not want to bark up this tree! I have done my homework on every possible issue relating to these issues.
Watch my coming video relating to the Islamic Jesus vs the Biblical Jesus. I will compare them and lets see if they are "absolutely" reflect eachother.
@MBI3030 Here's my point. The NT is not a reliable source for, information about who Jesus (as) really was and what he taught, among other things.
It was not authored by God, it was not authored by Jesus (as), and it was not authored by anyone who knew Jesus (as). That presents a huge problem for me.
To put it even more simply: just because the NT says something, that doesn't make it true.
@dawahaddict dawahaddict stop believing nonsense go and read "the case for christ" it shows all the evidence you need to show the new testament is acurate reliable trustworthy
@dawahaddict It was the Spirit. Just compare the Old (Torah) with the new covenant (New testament- Bible) It makes a lot of sense the sequence and prophecies. Why? because it is continuation of God's Plan.
@dawahaddict Also it was written by witnesses that they even gave their life as martyrs for what they prophesed. Now with respect about your sacred Book, that was written or dictated by one person so he can choose what not to write or what to write. What if he was wrong? Would you trust in one person or on many that gave testimony with their life
@dawahaddict it appears you can not answer questions. You divert by asking a question. Learn the simple rules of logic. I am finishing my degree in this stuff. All I do is study this.
dawahaddict: ...it doesn't really matter that they are asking John if he is The Prophet.
ScriptureAddict: It matters if you believe that they were asking an Israelite prophet whether or not he was the Ishmaelite prophet you believe they were expecting.
dawahaddict: ...the first thought is that he might be the Messiah.
ScriptureAddict: Yes, they thought that he might be the Messiah because many people were expecting the Messiah to arrive during the period of the Roman occupation.
Here's the issue, The interact with John, and it is clear that he is a prophet, so the people immediately want to find out if he fulfills any of the prophecies. Their first thought is that he might be the Messiah, which makes sense because they are most anxiously awaiting the Messiah and the Messiah has to be an Israelite. However John denies this. What should be noted is that John could not have been the Messiah from the Jewish point of view because he was a Levite not a Judahite I believe...
...and the Messiah must be from the House of David (Judahite). So why did they ask John? Well, imagine you were there. You might think, "Hey, this guy is a prophet of God. I know he doesn't fit the description perfectly, but maybe he could still be the Messiah." Of course, after that idea fails, they try other unfulfilled prophecies, the LAST being that of The Prophet. Even though the prophecy is about an Ishmaelite prophet, or at least a potentially Israelite prophet, it's still worth asking...
Besides, I don't feel like getting into the whole thing again of everyone digging for quotes that show that "brethren" refers to Israelites VS non-Israelite brothers (Ishmaelites and others). I don't think it's necessary. It doesn't really matter if you believe that the prophecy is exclusively about an Israelite or exclusively an Ishmaelite. To be fair and balanced, I think it's clear that the prophecy could be understood to refer to either...
...Israelite or Ishmaelite, so based on that alone it could be Jesus (as) or Muhammad (saws).
The rest of the evidence clearly points to Muhammad (saws) over Jesus (as), and the final evidence of the questioning of John proves that they were distinct prophecies. No Muslim is arguing that there are no prophecies about the coming of Christ (as). There are just as many if not more probably. We believe in Jesus the Messiah (as) just as much as we believe in Muhammad (saws).
dawahaddict: To be fair and balanced, I think it's clear that the prophecy could be understood to refer to either Israelite or Ishmaelite, so based on that alone it could be Jesus (as) or Muhammad (saws).
ScriptureAddict: I believe that the only reason Muslims bother with Deut. 18.15 & 18 is because of the claim made in Surah 7.157 about a description of Muhammad being present in the Torah. It would have been a great help if the Qur'an had actually quoted the reference from the Torah itself.
dawahaddict: However, when the word "brethren" is mentioned in Deut 18.18, God is addressing the Children of Israel as a whole, so in this case, brethren would refer to the brethren of all the Children of Israel, so Muhammad (saws), an Ishmaelite, would fit the description, whereas Jesus (as) an Israelite, would not.
ScriptureAddict: Following the argument that you presented above, should we also presume that Moses was speaking about an Ishmaelite brother in Lev. 25.25-28 or Deut. 15.7-8?
Nice one brother... he was definately fortold in the Bible... even by NAME... all of this guys "refutation" are small stupid things... like saying the both ate bread.... so what?... we are talking about BIG ISSUES!!!... what sillyness..... stupidest refuation i have ever seen!!!...
Please check out the rest of my videos and spread the word insha'Allah. I'm going to make a text response here, so make sure to check it out insha'Allah!
Just saw it .... brilliant!!!... but i think your response will not change this guys opinion... it will only measure out the full depth of his perversity and stubboness... just like when someone come face to face with the truth and then denies it: it only shows how deep in falsehood that person really is. he up the good work brother!
I could have made my video 20 minutes long instead of 8 minutes, and included more details, examples, and preemptive rebuttals, but nobody would want to watch that lol. If I get a lot of comments and criticisms of the same issues, I might make a response to my own video clarifying and taking the issues further insha'Allah. For now, text will have to do.
also..please dont put that distateful man in the same sentence with the Holy Bible..the only thing the Bible says about mohammed was that there would be many false prophets..enough with the nonsense..
Your right... there would be many false prophets, but the prophet Muhammed (saw) just wasn't one of them. Pity you obviously don't know anything about him(saw). Maybe you would see that he is closer to Jesus (peace be upon him) than any of us could ever be love that is between them we will never know. Whe Jesus 9as) comes back and dies the normal mortal death he will be buried next to the prophet Muhammed (saw). May God bless Jesus a thousand times more that those who blasphem him!!!
he was talking about Jesus...all of the Old testament speaks of Jesus coming..stop trying to force everyone to believe mohammed was Holy..he was a very sinful man...
You beleive in God i take it? if the prophet Muhammed (saw) was as you say then why did God allow such a huge section of humanity to follow him and consider him the final prophet (saw)? If he wasn't the final prophet then who was? No one else ever claimed to be! .... if you read his life, learned how he lived, how he taught and how he spoke of God and the other prophets (as) then maybe you could say something about him. What if he really was God's final prophet? Wouldn't you have missed out?
he was very sinful man and wasnt Gods messenger..beleive what yu want..Jesus said false prophets would come and to test the spirits..nothing but death and violence from yours..have a nice day
It wasnot an insult... it was the truth... unless you are actually going to tell me you haveread a book about his life? If you have then i take it back. But honestly you think 1.2 billion people around the world beleive in him and love him because he was SINFUL??? please just think about it!. it he wasn't the last prophet then who was? You are just afraid that if you got to know him then you would see he was the brother of esus Christ....
He said (saw): "Who ever testifes that God alone deserves to be worship and that Muhammed is His slave and Messener and that Jesus Christ is His Slave and Messenger and His Word which passed to the pure virgin Mary and that Paradise is real and Hell is real, shall thereby enter Paradise no matter what his deeds.".... is THAT sinful?
Ok then... since you know so much about the prophet Muhammed, teach me about him... show me how i am so obviously wrong.... but i dont think you can. Just the same old silly childish arguments when you have no idea how he lived... but i'm open: show me exactly why i should beleive about him what you beleive
Hahaha!!... ok ok... i won't push... for what it's worth it was nice having this little discourse ;) you seem like a cool person.... take care and God bless!
the name given to Moses twice is JAHWEH, israel knew thier GOD and his name, they couldn't axccept any other name, this is the most bezar behavior i have ever seen by a religion. here in the west islam ,it is a must, it has to fit in to the bible or it is void, it is a reckless move.
Deu 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Deu 34:11 In all the signs and the wonders, which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land,
Deu 34:12 And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.
Here I think is the definition of what a prophet like moses means.
Great responce, and I really must question why they use the bible to prove a point (when they generally seem to believe it is corrutped, and if they just say it is because you believe it, I feel that is flawed, are they trying to get us to believe that it speaks about muhammad and convert on that basis then dismiss it as corrupted? Doesn't make sense to me. ). I also think there is a better explanation, for what a prophet like Moses means.
MentalWitnesses: I really must question why they use the bible to prove a point.
ScriptureAddict: They really don't have a choice. Surah 7.157 claims that descriptions of Muhammad can be found in the Torah and the Gospel, so if any Jew or Christian challenges them to produce their proof, they are left with no other recourse.
John 7 v40-53... read it....the jews then made distinctions btw the CHRIST and the PROPHET as two different prophesies as at the time of Jesus...They(the jews) also did not believe that jesus(pbuh) was a true prophet (the messiah) because he came out of galilee... according to verse 50 thru 51 Nicodemus made it clear that their law does not judge anybody according to their tribe but what he says and does.(sooo,,it does not matter that the PROPHET have to be jew according to their law)
BigmanAmd87 1 month ago
Really really really good Job. May God continue to help you & give you great insights. Those last points nailed it on the head
kingdele01 9 months ago
Good job on this video thanks
ajlapiana 10 months ago
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All you Muslims wonder how it is that we Christians believe there is only 1 God manifested in three persons. Lets just look a Jesus the Son of God who was sobordinate to God in position, office and function because he was a man, but He was equal to God in character, nature, substance, & essence. We don't know. How can God always have been. We don't know. How can water be in a solid form, liquid form, and gas form? and be of the same substance? We know, yet God created water as one substance!
ajlapiana 10 months ago
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1400 years ago
Quran:
(SURAH-3-THE FAMILY OF IMRAN-VS-116)
(as for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against allah; and these are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
quranresponse 11 months ago
@GamerFTW21 No... i was just asking what you think of Jesus(as), every chritian i speak to seems to beleive something different
Bashandi 11 months ago
@GamerFTW21 "Surely, We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light; by its laws the Jews have been judged by the prophets who surrendered themselves to Allah, the rabbis and the doctors of law, because they were entrusted the protection of Allah's book and were witnesses thereto" (5:44). "And we gave him (Jesus) the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition to the God-fearing" (5:46)
Bashandi 11 months ago
@GamerFTW21 What we mean when we say the "Bible" is "corrupt" (not really the word we should use) is that (out of the parts of it that were the original scripture given the Moses(as) and Jesus(as) not the letters of Paul ect) somethings were added, others removed and others changed. Anything that CONTRADICTS Gods eternal message as sent to all the Prophets we muslis reject, everything else in the Bible is acceptable. Besides the Qur'an doesn't say its corrupt, quite the opposite in fact.
Bashandi 11 months ago
@GamerFTW21 So your a Christian who believes the bible is corrupt too? Are you a Catholic, Protestant, Greek Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelist or Jehovah Witness? and do you believe Christ (as) was God, or Son of God or third of three?
Bashandi 11 months ago
@GamerFTW21 If thats what your sure of then fine, don't believe. What do you believe in then? What is your religion?
Bashandi 11 months ago
@GamerFTW21 Sorry but i have no interest in getting into a debate. If you want to know about the last prophet then i suggest getting a copy of MUHAMMED by Dr. Martin Lings. A great book. If your not really interested enough to do something like that then just ignore us Muslims and go your own way in life. Peace!
Bashandi 11 months ago
I think the "prophet like onto Moses" from Deut. is the same as the Messiah. I think the Pharisees & priests who questioned St. John were making a distinction b/t their own beliefs & the Samaritan's beliefs. The Samaritans didn't recognise the legitimacy of the Davidic dynasty; the anointed, or Christos, or Messianic kings. The prophets, such as Elijah or Isaiah didn't emerge until after the Davidic dynasty was established. Thus the Samaritan only believed in one coming prophet.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
Another guy that needs to go back to school and educate himself,
MTLBOBIRAS 1 year ago
Moses did not had more than 20 wives and sex slaves.
MegaDwell 1 year ago
@MegaDwell idiot he was married wasnt he? and jesus never married at all.
imreadyyo26 1 year ago
Good video brother. You are correct in refutting dawahaddict....
MBI3030 1 year ago
The problem here is when muslims such as dawahadict or anyone else read that scripture they believe that The Prophet and The Christ as 2 separate people...The Jews was wrong in that area because they believed it was 2 different people when in John 5:39-48 we see when Jesus speaking of who Moses was referring to...There is a youtube video that explains this very well watch?v=3xHJ7JEQOXQ see for yourself...and again Glorthac EXCELLENT VIDEO my brother in Christ. Take care Peace
altorstenlinton 2 years ago
The problem here is when muslims such as dawahadict or anyone else read that scripture they believe that The Prophet and The Christ as 2 separate people...The Jews was wrong in that area because they believed it was 2 different people when in John 5:39-48 we see when Jesus speaking of who Moses was referring to...There is a youtube video that explains this very well watch?v=3xHJ7JEQOXQ see for yourself...and again Glorthac EXCELLENT VIDEO my brother in Christ. Take care Peace
altorstenlinton 2 years ago
Just a random question:
Is this guy Converted2Islam's son?....
TheBereanSearch 2 years ago
Do we look alike?
dawahaddict 2 years ago
If you accept Deut 14:21 as Gods word : i suggest you do some serious soul searching -
Don't eat dead animals that you find lying around. (But it's OK to feed them to strangers, or sell them to foreigners.) And don't boil a kid (baby goat) in its mother's milk.
strider7086 2 years ago
Hello, Glorthac.
I think it is also worth mentioning that Deu 17:15 and 14:21 give further insight as to what 'brothers' means in Deuteronomy.
Deu 17:15 says, "...be sure to appoint over you the king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a [brother]. (NIV)"
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
So 'brothers' means those that are not 'foreigner.' And to see what 'foreigners' means, look at Deu 14:21, which says; "Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the Lord your God. Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk. (NIV)"
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
So 'foreigner' doesn't just mean someone you have a relationship with (like the lineal relationship Israelites have with Ishmaelites), but that 'foreigner' actually means someone that is not a fellow countryman—a fellow Israelite.
'Brothers' must mean those that are fellow Israelites—those whose nationality is that of Israel. Since Muhammad was an Ishmaelite, he could not have been the prophet referred to in the communication (relayed by Moses) from God to the Israelites (in Deu 18:18).
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
Say ye: "We believe in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
strider7086 2 years ago
Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that we are sincere (in our faith) in Him? Or do ye say that Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!" (Surah 2: 130-140)
strider7086 2 years ago
How is a quote from the Quran relevant to my argument, strider7086?
Or are you just preaching?
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
Excellent! I'll remember Deut 17:15 for next time.
Glorthac 2 years ago
My dear Astronomer:
Deut: 14:21 does not define brother
"Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."
strider7086 2 years ago
"My dear Astronomer: Deut: 14:21 does not define brother"
Strider7086, you're not even listening. It is Deu 17:15 that defines אָח ('ach - translated as brother) as 'one who is not נָכְרִי (nokriy translated as foreigner or alien).'
The only thing Deu 14:21 does is define foreigner/alien (the King James Bible translates נָכְרִי as alien in 17:15, but stranger in 14:21. It is the same word, nonetheless) as 'one who has a different country than Israel as his/her nationality.'
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
So Deu 17:15 defines אָח (brother) as 'one who is not נָכְרִי,' and Deu 14:21 defines נָכְרִי as 'one who is not an Israelite.'
Thus, in the context of Deuteronomy, אָח (brother) means 'one who is an Israelite.'
Since Deu 18:15 says that the prophet in question will be "of thy brethren," it clearly means or "of thy fellow Israelites." Since Muhammad was not an Israelite, he cannot have been the prophet in question.
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
And Deu 17:15 isnt the only one; Deu 15:3 and 23:20 each independently show that a 'brother' is one who is not a foreigner.
So three separate verses in conjunction with Deu 14:21 each show that a 'brother' is a fellow Israelite.
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
Deu 14:21
"Ye shall not eat [of] any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger (גָּר - ger) that [is] in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien (נָכְרִי - nokriy): for thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
Deu 15:3
"Of a foreigner (נָכְרִי - nokriy) thou mayest exact [it again]: but [that] which is thine with thy brother (אָח - 'ach) thine hand shall release."
Deu 17:15
Thou shalt in any wise set [him] king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: [one] from among thy brethren (אָח - 'ach) shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger (נָכְרִי - nokriy) over thee, which [is] not thy brother (אָח - 'ach).
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
Deu 23:20
"Unto a stranger (נָכְרִי - nokriy) thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother (אָח - 'ach) thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it."
SecularAstronomer 2 years ago
To begin, I want to let you know that I accept most of the similarities you mentioned between Moses (as) and Jesus (as). Certainly, both being prophets of God, they would have a great deal in common. Based on that alone, Muhammad (saws) and Jesus (as) would both fit the description. However, there are some things about Jesus (as) that make him very different from Moses (as) that are worth mentioning, such as his miraculous birth, his prophethood from birth, the fact that he was rejected...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
by most of the people to whom he was sent, and of course the fact that he was later deified. I didn't mention these because i didn't think it was necessary, and because the video was not a refutation of Christ (as), who, as I'm sure you know, Muslims consider to be an important prophet. What I have always found odd is that Christians actually believe this prophecy to be about Jesus (as). I mean, from a Christian perspective, Jesus (as) is NOTHING like Moses (as). You believe Jesus (as) is the...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...literal begotten son of God, as well as God Himself, as one part of a Trinity. It would seem that comparing Moses (as) to Jesus (as) would be like blasphemy, because certainly from an Islamic perspective it would be blasphemy to say that God's prophet is comparable to God.
Next, you mention that the word brethren can also refer to an inter-Israelite relationship. Again, I accept your statement, and the verse you mentioned about the Levites is clearly referring to their relationship with...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...the other Israelites. However, when the word "brethren" is mentioned in Deut 18:18, God is addressing the Children of Israel as a whole, so in this case, brethren would refer to the brethren of all the Children of Israel, so Muhammad (saws), an Ishmaelite, would fit the description, whereas Jesus (as) an Israelite, would not.
For the third point, you seemed a bit confused in your words. You mixed the criteria of the WORD of God and the NAME of God. You said, "Just because Muhammad begins...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...each Surah with 'Bismillah' doesn't mean he is actually speaking the words of God. Therefore, unless you can prove that he is truly speaking in God's name, this is outright irrelevance." "Bismillah" means "In the Name of God" so clearly this means he is speaking in the Name of God. Yet, you are right, this does not prove that he is speaking the word of God, but of course I never claimed as much. There is a great deal of proof that he was speaking the word of God, but that's a whole series...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...worth of videos. Insha'Allah I'll make them at some point, but I can send you some information on that if you like. Also, I think it's funny that you cut me off right there, before I explained how Muhammad (saws) received revelation.
Your response to the last section isn't really a logical argument. First of all, it doesn't really matter that they are asking John if he is The Prophet. As you see, the first thought is that he might be the Messiah. Only after he denies being the Messiah do...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...they suggest other prophecies that he might be fulfilling; Elijah (as), and then last, The Prophet. This in no way changes the fact that The Prophet is not an Israelite. More important here is the understanding that they are distinct prophecies. I think this is very clear.
After that, it gets kind of ridiculous. You're really on this Jew thing. I think first of all, I need to clarify the difference between Jew and Israelite. An Israelite is a descendant of Israel AKA Jacob (as). Moses...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...(as) is an Israelite. A Jew is a descendant of Judah the son of Jacob (as). Moses (as) is not a Jew, but a Levite. Also, to go back a bit, John the Baptist (as) was also a Levite, not a Jew/Judahite like Jesus (as), which was a requirement for being the Messiah.
That being said, you are innovating a false criterion for The Prophet. Moses (as) was an Israelite, and the people asked for Moses (as) at Horeb as you pointed out, yet in 18:18 God promises a Prophet "like Moses (as)" and then...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...provided the further criteria that we discussed. It is never said that the Prophet will be like Moses (as) in being descended from Jacob (as). In fact, it is specifically stated, as we've already discussed, that the Prophet will be from the BRETHREN of the Israelites, not the Israelites themselves. You can't change that, nor can you disregard it.
The reference to Deut 18:18 in Acts 3:20-23 is a mistake. Acts cannot be used to prove anything. If I may quote from Wiki, "While the precise...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...identity of the author [of Acts] is debated, the general consensus is that this work was composed by a (Koine) Greek speaking Gentile writing for an audience of Gentile Christians." The writer of Acts had no more authority to make this erroneous claim than you do.
For sure there are a number of prophecies in the Old Testament that foretell the coming of Jesus (as). Deut 18:18 just isn't one of them.
dawahaddict 2 years ago
@dawahaddict
really, so you know better than the authors of the New Testament?
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 Do the authors of the New Testament know better than God?
dawahaddict 1 year ago
dawahaddict: Only after he denies being the Messiah do they suggest other prophecies that he might be fulfilling; Elijah (as), and then last, The Prophet. This in no way changes the fact that The Prophet is not an Israelite.
ScriptureAddict: So you believe that after denying that he was the Messiah or Elijah, two Israelite prophets whom the Jews were still expecting, they then question this Israelite prophet about being the Ishmaelite prophet that Moses allegedly promised them in Deut. 18.18?
ScriptureAddict 2 years ago
Israelite or Ishmaelite brother.
dawahaddict 2 years ago
@dawahaddict
that is not what Moses is saying. If you are wrong about this, can you change you mind?
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 It is what it is. I am already convinced of the Qur'an without this. I delve into these prophecies as further evidence, but I do not require it for my belief. I think it is particularly interesting to Jews and Christians to see that Muhammad (saws) was mentioned by the previous prophets.
Do you have something to add to the conversation that has not already been mentioned, or are you planning to repeat what Glorthac has already said?
dawahaddict 1 year ago
@dawahaddict
I am glad you are convinced of this...... But you are wrong.
You are wrong in your intepreting the Bible.
I can add this, I am a former muslim. And if you are wrong can you change your mind?
I can!
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 Ok, so, why don't you become Muslim?
dawahaddict 1 year ago
@dawahaddict been there and I found it to be false. Jesus is WHO He says He is.
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 That's true, and Jesus (as) never ever ever claimed to be God, or the son of God. Consider your sources brother.
dawahaddict 1 year ago
@dawahaddict
by this statement, you never read the New Testament. Allow me to channledge you, read the entire New Testament, and ask yourself a simple: Does the New Testament about Jesus be the same Islamic Jesus?
Be a young man of integirity and read the sources. I have and have given my life to this.
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 The authentic statements of Jesus (as) in the New Testament absolutely reflects the Islamic understanding of Jesus (as).
Have you studied the Bible critically? Are you aware of the changes that have been made even within the last few decades?
dawahaddict 1 year ago
@dawahaddict
you honestly do not want to bark up this tree! I have done my homework on every possible issue relating to these issues.
Watch my coming video relating to the Islamic Jesus vs the Biblical Jesus. I will compare them and lets see if they are "absolutely" reflect eachother.
it appears you have been brian washed.
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 I only fear God. :-)
dawahaddict 1 year ago 3
@dawahaddict
then if you read the NT, like you said you have or implied, then you know Jesus Christ is the ONE who Judges us.
but i am sure you knew this!
MBI3030 1 year ago
@MBI3030 Here's my point. The NT is not a reliable source for, information about who Jesus (as) really was and what he taught, among other things.
It was not authored by God, it was not authored by Jesus (as), and it was not authored by anyone who knew Jesus (as). That presents a huge problem for me.
To put it even more simply: just because the NT says something, that doesn't make it true.
dawahaddict 1 year ago 6
@dawahaddict dawahaddict stop believing nonsense go and read "the case for christ" it shows all the evidence you need to show the new testament is acurate reliable trustworthy
yhwh567 6 months ago
@dawahaddict It was the Spirit. Just compare the Old (Torah) with the new covenant (New testament- Bible) It makes a lot of sense the sequence and prophecies. Why? because it is continuation of God's Plan.
openvoice2 3 months ago
@dawahaddict Also it was written by witnesses that they even gave their life as martyrs for what they prophesed. Now with respect about your sacred Book, that was written or dictated by one person so he can choose what not to write or what to write. What if he was wrong? Would you trust in one person or on many that gave testimony with their life
openvoice2 3 months ago
@dawahaddict
i will no longer reply to post. to much time trying to scroll. send me pm.... much easier.
MBI3030 1 year ago
@dawahaddict it appears you can not answer questions. You divert by asking a question. Learn the simple rules of logic. I am finishing my degree in this stuff. All I do is study this.
MBI3030 1 year ago
dawahaddict: ...it doesn't really matter that they are asking John if he is The Prophet.
ScriptureAddict: It matters if you believe that they were asking an Israelite prophet whether or not he was the Ishmaelite prophet you believe they were expecting.
dawahaddict: ...the first thought is that he might be the Messiah.
ScriptureAddict: Yes, they thought that he might be the Messiah because many people were expecting the Messiah to arrive during the period of the Roman occupation.
ScriptureAddict 2 years ago
Here's the issue, The interact with John, and it is clear that he is a prophet, so the people immediately want to find out if he fulfills any of the prophecies. Their first thought is that he might be the Messiah, which makes sense because they are most anxiously awaiting the Messiah and the Messiah has to be an Israelite. However John denies this. What should be noted is that John could not have been the Messiah from the Jewish point of view because he was a Levite not a Judahite I believe...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...and the Messiah must be from the House of David (Judahite). So why did they ask John? Well, imagine you were there. You might think, "Hey, this guy is a prophet of God. I know he doesn't fit the description perfectly, but maybe he could still be the Messiah." Of course, after that idea fails, they try other unfulfilled prophecies, the LAST being that of The Prophet. Even though the prophecy is about an Ishmaelite prophet, or at least a potentially Israelite prophet, it's still worth asking...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...John about, just incase.
Besides, I don't feel like getting into the whole thing again of everyone digging for quotes that show that "brethren" refers to Israelites VS non-Israelite brothers (Ishmaelites and others). I don't think it's necessary. It doesn't really matter if you believe that the prophecy is exclusively about an Israelite or exclusively an Ishmaelite. To be fair and balanced, I think it's clear that the prophecy could be understood to refer to either...
dawahaddict 2 years ago
...Israelite or Ishmaelite, so based on that alone it could be Jesus (as) or Muhammad (saws).
The rest of the evidence clearly points to Muhammad (saws) over Jesus (as), and the final evidence of the questioning of John proves that they were distinct prophecies. No Muslim is arguing that there are no prophecies about the coming of Christ (as). There are just as many if not more probably. We believe in Jesus the Messiah (as) just as much as we believe in Muhammad (saws).
dawahaddict 2 years ago
dawahaddict: To be fair and balanced, I think it's clear that the prophecy could be understood to refer to either Israelite or Ishmaelite, so based on that alone it could be Jesus (as) or Muhammad (saws).
ScriptureAddict: I believe that the only reason Muslims bother with Deut. 18.15 & 18 is because of the claim made in Surah 7.157 about a description of Muhammad being present in the Torah. It would have been a great help if the Qur'an had actually quoted the reference from the Torah itself.
ScriptureAddict 2 years ago
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dawahaddict: However, when the word "brethren" is mentioned in Deut 18.18, God is addressing the Children of Israel as a whole, so in this case, brethren would refer to the brethren of all the Children of Israel, so Muhammad (saws), an Ishmaelite, would fit the description, whereas Jesus (as) an Israelite, would not.
ScriptureAddict: Following the argument that you presented above, should we also presume that Moses was speaking about an Ishmaelite brother in Lev. 25.25-28 or Deut. 15.7-8?
ScriptureAddict 2 years ago
@dawahaddict
your problem is your are looking at the wrong similarities. They are spiritual not earthly.
MBI3030 1 year ago
Nice one brother... he was definately fortold in the Bible... even by NAME... all of this guys "refutation" are small stupid things... like saying the both ate bread.... so what?... we are talking about BIG ISSUES!!!... what sillyness..... stupidest refuation i have ever seen!!!...
Bashandi 2 years ago
Feel free to watch my refutation of Muhammad's name in the Bible:
/watch?v=AQp-Z8cKvD8
Glorthac 2 years ago
Thanks brother :-)
Please check out the rest of my videos and spread the word insha'Allah. I'm going to make a text response here, so make sure to check it out insha'Allah!
dawahaddict 2 years ago
Just saw it .... brilliant!!!... but i think your response will not change this guys opinion... it will only measure out the full depth of his perversity and stubboness... just like when someone come face to face with the truth and then denies it: it only shows how deep in falsehood that person really is. he up the good work brother!
Bashandi 2 years ago
Allah knows best, and Allah guides who He wills.
I could have made my video 20 minutes long instead of 8 minutes, and included more details, examples, and preemptive rebuttals, but nobody would want to watch that lol. If I get a lot of comments and criticisms of the same issues, I might make a response to my own video clarifying and taking the issues further insha'Allah. For now, text will have to do.
dawahaddict 2 years ago
also..please dont put that distateful man in the same sentence with the Holy Bible..the only thing the Bible says about mohammed was that there would be many false prophets..enough with the nonsense..
thank you
fanoflittleman 2 years ago
Your right... there would be many false prophets, but the prophet Muhammed (saw) just wasn't one of them. Pity you obviously don't know anything about him(saw). Maybe you would see that he is closer to Jesus (peace be upon him) than any of us could ever be love that is between them we will never know. Whe Jesus 9as) comes back and dies the normal mortal death he will be buried next to the prophet Muhammed (saw). May God bless Jesus a thousand times more that those who blasphem him!!!
Bashandi 2 years ago
he was talking about Jesus...all of the Old testament speaks of Jesus coming..stop trying to force everyone to believe mohammed was Holy..he was a very sinful man...
fanoflittleman 2 years ago
You beleive in God i take it? if the prophet Muhammed (saw) was as you say then why did God allow such a huge section of humanity to follow him and consider him the final prophet (saw)? If he wasn't the final prophet then who was? No one else ever claimed to be! .... if you read his life, learned how he lived, how he taught and how he spoke of God and the other prophets (as) then maybe you could say something about him. What if he really was God's final prophet? Wouldn't you have missed out?
Bashandi 2 years ago
he was very sinful man and wasnt Gods messenger..beleive what yu want..Jesus said false prophets would come and to test the spirits..nothing but death and violence from yours..have a nice day
fanoflittleman 2 years ago
Hahaha!.. thanks i already beleive what i want.... and you beleive the media like a child.... go read a book!
Bashandi 2 years ago
resorting to petty insults..thats nice..anyway..quoting a sinful man and saying he was of God is very sad..have a nice day
fanoflittleman 2 years ago
It wasnot an insult... it was the truth... unless you are actually going to tell me you haveread a book about his life? If you have then i take it back. But honestly you think 1.2 billion people around the world beleive in him and love him because he was SINFUL??? please just think about it!. it he wasn't the last prophet then who was? You are just afraid that if you got to know him then you would see he was the brother of esus Christ....
Bashandi 2 years ago
He said (saw): "Who ever testifes that God alone deserves to be worship and that Muhammed is His slave and Messener and that Jesus Christ is His Slave and Messenger and His Word which passed to the pure virgin Mary and that Paradise is real and Hell is real, shall thereby enter Paradise no matter what his deeds.".... is THAT sinful?
Bashandi 2 years ago
thats your truth, no Jesus was pure..mohammed was a sex addict who didnt even follow his own rules..thank you
fanoflittleman 2 years ago
Ok then... since you know so much about the prophet Muhammed, teach me about him... show me how i am so obviously wrong.... but i dont think you can. Just the same old silly childish arguments when you have no idea how he lived... but i'm open: show me exactly why i should beleive about him what you beleive
Bashandi 2 years ago
ok have a nice day :)
fanoflittleman 2 years ago
Hahaha!!... ok ok... i won't push... for what it's worth it was nice having this little discourse ;) you seem like a cool person.... take care and God bless!
Bashandi 2 years ago
the name given to Moses twice is JAHWEH, israel knew thier GOD and his name, they couldn't axccept any other name, this is the most bezar behavior i have ever seen by a religion. here in the west islam ,it is a must, it has to fit in to the bible or it is void, it is a reckless move.
jhweh2007 2 years ago
Excellent exegisis & response. 5 stars
October31st1517 2 years ago
That the prophet like Moses will know God face to face, do mighty signs like that Moses did unto pharoah, and show the great terror of God.
Muhammad did not fulfill any of these, especially the first 2, though I know some who would say he showed terror certaintly.
MentalWitnesses 2 years ago
Deu 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Deu 34:11 In all the signs and the wonders, which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land,
Deu 34:12 And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.
Here I think is the definition of what a prophet like moses means.
MentalWitnesses 2 years ago
Great responce, and I really must question why they use the bible to prove a point (when they generally seem to believe it is corrutped, and if they just say it is because you believe it, I feel that is flawed, are they trying to get us to believe that it speaks about muhammad and convert on that basis then dismiss it as corrupted? Doesn't make sense to me. ). I also think there is a better explanation, for what a prophet like Moses means.
Which is
MentalWitnesses 2 years ago
MentalWitnesses: I really must question why they use the bible to prove a point.
ScriptureAddict: They really don't have a choice. Surah 7.157 claims that descriptions of Muhammad can be found in the Torah and the Gospel, so if any Jew or Christian challenges them to produce their proof, they are left with no other recourse.
ScriptureAddict 2 years ago