It was a win win situation for church and state when Becket was murdered, Henry got rid of a problem, albeit with a deal of penance, Canterbury became fat on the alms of the pilgrim trade and the church got another popular martyr.
I have been to the church where Becket's shrine was. The shrine was destroyed after Henry VIII separated from Rome and Protestants took over the country. Now only a burning candle marks the spot where his shrine once stood. The Protestants destroyed many ancent Catholic shrines during that stormy time. Such beautiful churchs and shrines are gone forever.
Très mauvaise scène de fin !!! Tous les coups portés à Becket le sont à la tête (comme Brutualtruth l'a dit). Et Henri II n'a jamais reçu les fameux coup de verge qu'il aurait du recevoir, à la place lui et le Pape ont eu un arrangement officieux. En tant qu'historienne, je ne supporte pas ce genre de fantaisie romantique dans un film qui se veut plus ou moins historique.
@tomieh18 King Henry may have been wrong BUT we can not allow the church...any church....to rule the country. The governmen, in this case the King, must be the one who rules. Not a bishop, pope, preacher, Iman...etc. The church must submit to the government...not vice versa
neither should be in any kind of submission to the other
it was so incredibly wrong for henry IV to sieze church property, to sack canterbury cathedral, and to have the body of SAINT THOMAS A BECKET BURNED!!!
those sir were EVIL deeds done when the government forced the churches submission, and thats not to mension the thousands of catholics "papists" murdered by the english
Becket was in the right to excommunicate those that he did
@1classicliberal I never said Becket should have been timid or should have been some kind of flunky for king charles. I just meant that when it comes to governing a country and making laws that authority should NOT rest with a church/religion. If that were the case today then governments would not have the authority to arrest and prosecute the catholic bishops or priest that have molested young children over the years. Do you want to go back to the old days when crimes like that were covered up?
@TroyBilt007 first off I trust the church, the bishops, and the pope FAR more than my president, my congress, and my judiciary...... let it be known sir that this is true because the church is far more likely to hold to its of being the protector and guide to God's people on earth, than my government is to hold to its purpose of protecting my liberty as a human being
i do not like corruption in either case, however it should be the church that charges these members under canon law
@TroyBilt007 you cling to separation of church and state... just as I do, much as Becket himself struggled to achieve... and yet you say, gov is not beholden to church, but church must be beholden to government... the government is to be persicuting the church and its clergy?
the church should have been alowed to be the check to the king
the church and its clergy should hold to their vows and be incorrupt
what lord gilbert had done was fundamentaly incorrect
@TroyBilt007 crimes like that are covered up everyday. Los Angeles school dist. is going thru the ringer as we speak. There is nothing new under the sun
Another perfect example of the church always coming out on top while humans die and kill each other..When will human learn that god is nothing but a figment of their imagination?The King did his best to disrespect god and the church yet,felt threatened when one of his lords was being excommunicated.Who cares about a little piece of wafer and some grape juice?The king was not trembling because of Becket,he trembled because of his fear for this god which never existed and never will
@eoriol1955 ChristianSlayer, God gave men free will; men will always sin; but through His Sacrifice, Jesus atoned for our sins and made possible union with Him. Indeed His Church shall prevail. After earthly death, believer or not, you shall enter eternal life, standing in judgment before Our Lord, Who is truly, really and substantially present, here & now, as the Eucharist, the bread/ wine consecrated at Mass (John Chap 6). You are missing out on a wondrous gift! Please open your heart & mind.
How much clearer could the king have made his wishes known to his gang of assassins?Henry knew exactly that he was sentencing Becket to death when he uttered the question as to who will rid him of the priest.Who do you think he was speaking of?;Some other priest.
Henry had to penance for 3 years. he was under papal edit, and was in danger of losing his kingdom. For to be excommunicated left you open to be murdered by anyone, even a king.
The death scene here is historically wrong, The poor man had the top of his skull sliced off. That was horrible even by 12th century standards. Poor man.
@BRUTUALTRUTH they weren't allowed to show graphic content like that then. and only a few years before this movie pornography was illegal. in fact saying the F word would not be legal until a few years later.
@bookkeeper57 By all accounts the king didn't actually want Becket despatched.Knights, perhaps seeking to curry favour with the king, rode from Westminster to Canterbury and killed Becket in front of the main altar of the Cathedral when he refused to relent.
No, you're right about that. He was at the end of his rope with Becket, and his barons knew it. So they took the law into their own hands, thinking thereby to relieve the king of a traitorous troublemaker, and win his favor.
This film of Becket was a good and excellently acted by Richard Burton and Peter O' Toole. To me it's a great part of English history. I would have liked the above players to have received Oscars and for the film overall. I remember seeing the film back in the seventies.
This reminds me much of the archbishop episode of Black Adder:
King: "Oh, it's something that my ancestor Henry II once said when he having trouble with Thomas of Beckett. He was sitting at a table like this with two drunken knights, and he yelled out: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"
Though it lacks of course the deeper theological insides of Archbishop Edmund the Unwilling! So I will have to post them:
Graveney: But I have committed many sins. Edmund: Haven't we all, haven't we all... Graveney: I murdered my father... Edmund: Well, I know how you feel. William: Alas! King: Hurry up, Egbert! Graveney: ...and I have committed adultery... Edmund: Well, who hasn't? Graveney: ...more than a thousand times... Edmund: Well, it is 1487! Graveney: ...with my mother. Edmund: WHAT? King: Good lord... Graveney: You see, I *will* go to Hell. William: Hell; where turnips the nose of the earth!
Edmund: Well, well, let's take Hell: You know, Hell isn't as bad as it's cracked up to be.
Graveney: What?
Edmund: No, no, no, no. No; you see, the thing about Heaven, is that Heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go on in Heaven, like, uh, well, singing, talking to God, watering pot plants.
Graveney: Ew...
Edmund: Whereas Hell, on the other hand, is for people who like the other sorts of things: adultery, pillage, torture -- those areas.
Edmund: Mm! Give your lands to the crown, and once you're dead, you'll have the time of your life!
Graveney: Adultery? Pillage? Through all eternity?
Edmund: Yep!
William: large sticks against your tender portions!
King: Lord Graveney, your decision...
Graveney: Very wellI leave my lands to the crown, and my soul in the hands of the Lord. May He treat me like the piece of refuse that I am and send me to Hell.
I like all this film :)
anoniukas 1 month ago
so he had murdered and then declared him a saint?
19521962 2 months ago
Henry dislike this video
vide0gameCaster 7 months ago
It was a win win situation for church and state when Becket was murdered, Henry got rid of a problem, albeit with a deal of penance, Canterbury became fat on the alms of the pilgrim trade and the church got another popular martyr.
suzannesadiiqa 8 months ago
I always thought he was murdered in the side/lady chapel not at the high altar, but then it has been decades since I went to Canterbury.
suzannesadiiqa 8 months ago
@RichardElden i thought this movie was priceless!!! Tis a mystery
PInk77W1 8 months ago
I have been to the church where Becket's shrine was. The shrine was destroyed after Henry VIII separated from Rome and Protestants took over the country. Now only a burning candle marks the spot where his shrine once stood. The Protestants destroyed many ancent Catholic shrines during that stormy time. Such beautiful churchs and shrines are gone forever.
rrbond07 9 months ago
Great movie.
Ardenwolfe 10 months ago
Très mauvaise scène de fin !!! Tous les coups portés à Becket le sont à la tête (comme Brutualtruth l'a dit). Et Henri II n'a jamais reçu les fameux coup de verge qu'il aurait du recevoir, à la place lui et le Pape ont eu un arrangement officieux. En tant qu'historienne, je ne supporte pas ce genre de fantaisie romantique dans un film qui se veut plus ou moins historique.
Oursonne 1 year ago
St. Thomas Becket, a model to all bishops of true courage, bravery, and true honor. We could use more bishops like this great saint.
BTW anyone know the name of the chant during the murder scene? This chant and the excommunication scene chant (Dies Irae) are outstanding.
tomieh18 1 year ago 2
@tomieh18 King Henry may have been wrong BUT we can not allow the church...any church....to rule the country. The governmen, in this case the King, must be the one who rules. Not a bishop, pope, preacher, Iman...etc. The church must submit to the government...not vice versa
TroyBilt007 1 year ago
@TroyBilt007 NO NO NO!!!!!
neither should be in any kind of submission to the other
it was so incredibly wrong for henry IV to sieze church property, to sack canterbury cathedral, and to have the body of SAINT THOMAS A BECKET BURNED!!!
those sir were EVIL deeds done when the government forced the churches submission, and thats not to mension the thousands of catholics "papists" murdered by the english
Becket was in the right to excommunicate those that he did
1classicliberal 1 year ago
@TroyBilt007 becket had every right and responsibility to defend the church in england
lord gilbert WAS anathema
and i do not feel that any bishop should be so timid in his voice, not to defend the church that was/is entrusted to him
1classicliberal 1 year ago 4
@1classicliberal I never said Becket should have been timid or should have been some kind of flunky for king charles. I just meant that when it comes to governing a country and making laws that authority should NOT rest with a church/religion. If that were the case today then governments would not have the authority to arrest and prosecute the catholic bishops or priest that have molested young children over the years. Do you want to go back to the old days when crimes like that were covered up?
TroyBilt007 1 year ago
@TroyBilt007 first off I trust the church, the bishops, and the pope FAR more than my president, my congress, and my judiciary...... let it be known sir that this is true because the church is far more likely to hold to its of being the protector and guide to God's people on earth, than my government is to hold to its purpose of protecting my liberty as a human being
i do not like corruption in either case, however it should be the church that charges these members under canon law
1classicliberal 1 year ago
@1classicliberal well clearly you haven't studied history then. anyways arguement is pointless...
19521962 2 months ago
@19521962 aaw snide comments, how cute
"arguement is pointless" nah, there generally is
1classicliberal 2 months ago
@TroyBilt007 you cling to separation of church and state... just as I do, much as Becket himself struggled to achieve... and yet you say, gov is not beholden to church, but church must be beholden to government... the government is to be persicuting the church and its clergy?
the church should have been alowed to be the check to the king
the church and its clergy should hold to their vows and be incorrupt
what lord gilbert had done was fundamentaly incorrect
1classicliberal 1 year ago
@TroyBilt007 crimes like that are covered up everyday. Los Angeles school dist. is going thru the ringer as we speak. There is nothing new under the sun
PInk77W1 8 months ago
@TroyBilt007 lol...king who kills men and rapes women?
19521962 2 months ago
Another perfect example of the church always coming out on top while humans die and kill each other..When will human learn that god is nothing but a figment of their imagination?The King did his best to disrespect god and the church yet,felt threatened when one of his lords was being excommunicated.Who cares about a little piece of wafer and some grape juice?The king was not trembling because of Becket,he trembled because of his fear for this god which never existed and never will
eoriol1955 1 year ago
@eoriol1955 ChristianSlayer, God gave men free will; men will always sin; but through His Sacrifice, Jesus atoned for our sins and made possible union with Him. Indeed His Church shall prevail. After earthly death, believer or not, you shall enter eternal life, standing in judgment before Our Lord, Who is truly, really and substantially present, here & now, as the Eucharist, the bread/ wine consecrated at Mass (John Chap 6). You are missing out on a wondrous gift! Please open your heart & mind.
psalm118verse24 1 year ago
You fool,
How much clearer could the king have made his wishes known to his gang of assassins?Henry knew exactly that he was sentencing Becket to death when he uttered the question as to who will rid him of the priest.Who do you think he was speaking of?;Some other priest.
eoriol1955 1 year ago
Henry had to penance for 3 years. he was under papal edit, and was in danger of losing his kingdom. For to be excommunicated left you open to be murdered by anyone, even a king.
cahuber007 2 years ago
The death scene here is historically wrong, The poor man had the top of his skull sliced off. That was horrible even by 12th century standards. Poor man.
BRUTUALTRUTH 2 years ago 17
@BRUTUALTRUTH The whole movie is historically wrong.
12from12 1 year ago
@BRUTUALTRUTH they weren't allowed to show graphic content like that then. and only a few years before this movie pornography was illegal. in fact saying the F word would not be legal until a few years later.
ultradumbass 1 year ago
@BRUTUALTRUTH Yeah, but do you really think that MGM in the mid-60's was going to show his head getting sliced in half? I don't think so...
vlnvlaclogbaerhpno 6 months ago
King Henry gave Becket a job he didn't want, and then had him executed for doing it too well.
bookkeeper57 2 years ago 15
@bookkeeper57 By all accounts the king didn't actually want Becket despatched.Knights, perhaps seeking to curry favour with the king, rode from Westminster to Canterbury and killed Becket in front of the main altar of the Cathedral when he refused to relent.
divustitus 2 years ago
No, you're right about that. He was at the end of his rope with Becket, and his barons knew it. So they took the law into their own hands, thinking thereby to relieve the king of a traitorous troublemaker, and win his favor.
bookkeeper57 2 years ago
@bookkeeper57 didn't actually have him executed, historically he was incredibly upset when his barons took it upon themselves to kill him.
owenmichaelphelan 1 month ago
This film of Becket was a good and excellently acted by Richard Burton and Peter O' Toole. To me it's a great part of English history. I would have liked the above players to have received Oscars and for the film overall. I remember seeing the film back in the seventies.
herald1289 2 years ago
This reminds me much of the archbishop episode of Black Adder:
King: "Oh, it's something that my ancestor Henry II once said when he having trouble with Thomas of Beckett. He was sitting at a table like this with two drunken knights, and he yelled out: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"
Though it lacks of course the deeper theological insides of Archbishop Edmund the Unwilling! So I will have to post them:
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
Graveney: Your Grace, I have left all my lands to the church. Am I to be saved?
King: No, you treacherous swine! I'll kill you!
Edmund: No! Wait! Wait! Let's just take this through in stages, shall we? Erm, you know, the church doesn't really need more land...
King: No -- what it needs is a damn good thrashing!
Graveney: But if I do not gain its blessing, I will surely go to Hell!
William: Hell; where tiny tweezers--
King: GET OUT!!
Edmund: Someone like you go to Hell? Never. Never!!
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
King: Kill that bishop!
Edmund: Well, well, let's take Hell: You know, Hell isn't as bad as it's cracked up to be.
Graveney: What?
Edmund: No, no, no, no. No; you see, the thing about Heaven, is that Heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go on in Heaven, like, uh, well, singing, talking to God, watering pot plants.
Graveney: Ew...
Edmund: Whereas Hell, on the other hand, is for people who like the other sorts of things: adultery, pillage, torture -- those areas.
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
Graveney: Really?
Edmund: Mm! Give your lands to the crown, and once you're dead, you'll have the time of your life!
Graveney: Adultery? Pillage? Through all eternity?
Edmund: Yep!
William: large sticks against your tender portions!
King: Lord Graveney, your decision...
Graveney: Very wellI leave my lands to the crown, and my soul in the hands of the Lord. May He treat me like the piece of refuse that I am and send me to Hell.
King: Amen.
Edmund: Amen. You're a very lucky man!
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago