The True Amazing Atheist

[Frizzurd]

Love the burn on TJ, he had potential but is making atheism looking bad. I thought i was cynical....but damn.... i hope he is just a drama queen and does not mean some of the things he says...or else he is a Jim Jones type in training.

[evoman1776]

The unequaled Carl Sagan -- he is still missed.

[YuwTuwb]

I once said to somebody that Carl Sagan was an atheist and she said that 'i can't believe that after reading his novel: Contact'. She then said: 'where are your sources that he was an atheist?'.

Actually, she has a good point. I sort of made an assumption because of how skeptical Sagan was about such things. But he could have been an agnostic instead, at least technically. I still think tho that he was more on the side of atheism.

[YuwTuwb]

@YuwTuwb After she asked me about my sources i realised that i would have to get such sources, but i couldn't actually find anything definitive that showed me a quote where he said that he was.

[momin8888]

Carl Sagan doesn't know the universe had a beginning????

You would expect a scientist to know such things

[Fatso1000100]

Where did you learn that it did?

[theaaroneason]

Oddly enough he didn't mention a single exclusively atheist sentiment throughout the whole video. Deceitful title ftl. Nice to hear him ponder about these things, though.

[Crosisborg]

How is the title deceitful? Does he have to talk about atheism to be atheist? No, he was an amazing man and this was about that.

[theaaroneason]

The snippet shown demonstrated his interest in the subject and that there was a debate worth having concerning cosmology and theism. While his skepticism showed, he was far from overtly atheist. It was my fault for assuming that with a title like that the main character would indeed be expounding (amazing) atheist views. He wasn't. He was raising deep questions. I admire his courage in that.

[crazykb]

I agree. Carl was great. Live long and Proper...

[TheSoSoAgnostic]

ZOMG - (I have never used that b/f - doubt I will again) - but

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Watch it again, then walk away from the keyboard and type when you sober up.

That is the core question that separates atheists & theists- what happened before the big bang.

[theaaroneason]

Actually, the core question, the main issue that separates atheists from theists is not cosmology, but epistemology. More specifically, what is knowledge, what is knowable, and where exactly are the limits of knowledge. Sagan was talking about the limits of human knowledge for both atheists and theists. Again epistemology supplants cosmology in this debate.

BTW b/f stands for "boyfriend" around these parts. Makes your previous statement hilariously different from what you intended. ;D

Peace.

[TheSoSoAgnostic]

I don't think you're entirely disagreeing with me. Cosmology only gets us to the big bang. The atheist says at the point, "I don't know what came before the big bang," and is content to hope to know one day. The theist gets to that point and says, "Hey atheist, look, there must be a god, because you can't tell me what happened before the big bang." I can't really agree w/ your def. It gives theists too much credit. I truly don't believe the think about it as much as your def. implies.

[lyfecom]

i love this guy!

and this video is price less!

i have it on my play list for a reason =D

[BoozyBeggar]

Sagan was definitely an atheist, though he preferred "agnostic".

[A4AgnstcFndmntlst]

Carl has my vote.

[banjodeluxe]

i like how you put in a picture of yourself looking like a queer next to the video, nice touch

[Keylimedelight]

I'd have that mans babies.

[dupersloby]

carl sagan ate my children.....WHY!?!

[CommanderSavage]

No Carl Sagan was an agnostic and a secular humanist.

[SciPanFreethinker5]

You forgot, with a pantheistic point of view.

[laxguy22655]

yes but it's not the same idea it's more they see the universe as god which is probably closer to the truth and all living matter is but the mind of god wondering about itself even einstein was the same way

[SciPanFreethinker5]

That's because it exist Scientific Pantheism(aka. Atheist Pantheism). Remember that there are a lot of ways of Pantheism.:)

[laxguy22655]

yes but a fair amount of people don't see the difference.

[SciPanFreethinker5]

True. It's that Pantheism is not that famous. Unfortunately, the Christian churches despise such philosophy.

[laxguy22655]

actually more histarically i was in a christian chat room and started talking about string theory and so on and pantheism. all good and good till they asked what i was and well i answered truthfully that i was an atheist and some how i was debating them and making fun of them so i thought that was funny

[SciPanFreethinker5]

Lol! Well, Pantheism and Atheism are like cousins. Just like Deism with Theism.:P

[laxguy22655]

it was still epic,"oh yes i can see your point,well that makes sense,uuummmm what religion are you?" ,"oh i am an atheist," "omg what are you doing stop debating us this isnt a debating," and blah blah blah

[SciPanFreethinker5]

ROLF!

At least they didn't scream you were going to hell...or did they?

[laxguy22655]

i couldnt pay attention actually i was to busy laughing my ass off

[SciPanFreethinker5]

LOL!

[uther51]

the dude said he was agnostic and also he seemed to straw man atheists so im guessing he was in the mind set that agnosticism and atheism are both different incompatible beliefs. seems he was an agnostic?

[oros123456]

No one ever replicated the experiment. The science community did not want there to be a big project of measuring patients dying.

[SuperFlyNB]

To Carl Sagan

We miss you

[holybabble]

i've got that entire series on disk, and was recently thinking about this passage...do you know what show that is from? (you probably should display that anyway)

thanks in advance,

adam

[nibargerswife51482]

he's so calm about it... he was pretty cool too.

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

Sagan did in fact straw-man atheism,

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist"

"and you're so much more enlightened on the subject than a man of his education"

Honest people occasionally tell lies, and liars occasionally tell the truth (genetic fallacy). By my standards Sagan was an agnostic atheist.

Einstein wasn't an admitted pantheist, but we sure can make that claim if we look at his words. Sagan was brilliant, but by no means perfect.

[HankSoulATtube]

Well I cant agree on that before you show me where he says hes rather agnostic than atheist. All in all it has no meaning wheter he used the word agnostic or atheist. All agnostics are atheists, its just been too much misinterpretation of the meaning of the word atheist( which means: "one who does not believe in any gods") In that regard he was most certainly a hardcore atheist. All agnostics are atheists. Im an atheist, but you dont have to throw away a possibility of creators to be an atheist

[t4705mb6]

Its videos like this that make the religious lay in a fetal position in a small closet and drool a lot.

[KingHeathen]

great segment....such awesome responses to the typical statements we get even today!

[lwahlberg100]

Sagan is one of my scientific heroes. A brilliant man who looked to actual knowledge.

To address fakesagan: agnosticism/gnosticism deals with knowledge. Theism/atheism deals with belief. If one lays the claim agnostic...then they are making the statement that they do not know, which would be philosophically correct. However, in defining belief in a deity, then you have to look at the terms a/theism. It's not a hard concept, shit for brains.

[jack19790]

I miss him a lot.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

We all miss him. :-(

[oros123456]

Is widely accepted by many people even the religious. Sometimes people use the theory in philosophy, and religion. Such as saying that everything you do effects something in a big way. I read in a book about a man in massachusetts who was doing test of dying patients. They we're put on a table, made very comfortable, and before they died measured, and compared to other dead patients. 21 grams of weight was lost instantly after death, but it was never accepted by the science community.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

>" They we're put on a table, made very comfortable, and before they died measured, and compared to other dead patients. 21 grams of weight was lost instantly after death, but it was never accepted by the science community. "

That's because nobody else was every able to replicate his findings. So he was suspected as fraud.

[oros123456]

Theory my friend is an idea, only law in science is proof. Newtons third LAw of motion: " For every action is an equal, and opposite reaction. "

[oros123456]

A hypocricy. ; sniff ; Ahh! Pure ignorance. This remind me of how the Spaniards tried changing the faith of the Aztec simply by making threats, and calling them morons, and fools, and what happened to the Aztec again?

[chick5581]

Who was a cooler teenager

[nathanforst1]

Carl Sagan was a great man and is still one of my heroes. He popularized science in such a way that no one else had been able to do. His documentary series, Cosmos, is still one of the greatest series of all time.

Doesn't it seem like the best of humanity always tends to die off before the worst of humanity? What is that?

Maybe it's god pulling a practical joke?

[Malecaust666]

The only realize good exists when we don't have it anymore.

You don't realize what you have until you lose you.

And we don't realize what we have until we start appreciating that we're not just the bastard children of a god who wasn't there. But an incredibly unlikely spark of consciousness in a universe ripe for exploration, part of a species ready for evolution past killing.

[Rythmnsoul2]

The funny thing is, no offence, in my line of work, any atheist I've ever come in contact with, always ends up saying..."Oh God, oh my God". To each his own. I just find that funny.

[Crosisborg]

they also say holy shit. Its a learned expression that has no meaning.

[Rythmnsoul2]

well bro, to you be your way, to me be mine, and Allah will separate us in the end.

[Crosisborg]

Allah is a myth. A psychotic demon myth but a myth all the same. He wont be doing shit to me or anyone else.

[Rythmnsoul2]

Demon..?...wait you dont believe in demons....right?

[Crosisborg]

thats why i said he is a myth. Allah is as real as the friggin easter bunny.

[Rythmnsoul2]

But you said demon....

Well look, in person you would run from me and we would never have a conversation, past me asking for your I.D.. So, with that being said, I wont argue with you. To you be your way and to me be mine. Pray before you sleep because it is only God that gives you life in the morning. Peace to you and your family.

[Crosisborg]

You seem to think a lot of yourself. I would have no reason to run from you as you couldnt cause fear in me on your best day.

[nathanforst1]

Rythmnsoul2,

Are you serious? It is only god that gives me life in the morning?

What a twat.

[Rythmnsoul2]

Yes God is the only reason you wake up in the morning, and the reason you make it to your bed at night. I understand this video attracts a lot of disbelievers, and if that is how you chose to live, that is up to you. What I eat does not make you full, and your disbeliefs will not make me burn. Ive already said to all of you. Lets agree to disagree. Personally, I dont want my inbox full of ur ignorance. If your right, you and I share the same fate, but when you see u are wrong we will never meet.

[SexyMelon]

Any and all assertions about God are completely meaningless without proof, as no belief, no matter how strong, is indication of it's existence.

Asserting things that have never been proven as truth doesn't make you look knowledgeable - but, rather, insane.

[Malecaust666]

And if Thor is really god than we both get a hammer up our ass...

So your argument is completely void. Sorry.

[Rythmnsoul2]

You can say anything you want but if your right, our fates are the same. But when your wrong, you and I will never meet. We wont meet in life, or death.

Peace to you and your family.

[nathanforst1]

Rythmnsoul2,

I find it absolutely funny that you "just want to agree to disagree," but you are the one who came in here and began throwing words around. You are a bloody hypocrite.

As for not meeting in life or death... thank fuck for that! I would never want to meet you. You sound like a sheep.

[Rythmnsoul2]

ok...goodnight.

[nathanforst1]

Goodnight.

I seriously do wish you luck in life.

[shinigami034]

There is something about the way he speaks that must mystifies me. I wish I could hear more of his stuff. It just makes so much sense.

[elitemathlete]

Are you wearing a star trek uniform in that picture?

[Crosisborg]

LOL no, its a leather jacket

[COUGHmcCOUGH]

He's quite a smartypants.

[quisqueyatv]

beautiful& wise speech! :)

i could also say that Carl Sagan is like a god

[qanazir]

I really should pick up some of his books.

[nylonhead116]

he was a secular humanist too, am I right?

[chris3443]

Based on this video I'd say he was a fundamentalist islamic terrorist

[Mjhavok]

The interesting bundle of star stuff that is Carl Sagan.

[TOMMYfromtheBRONX]

great stuff man

[antisubaru]

Carl Sagan is the shit.

[banyah87]

Never heard Occam's Razor used so poetically and elegantly. You truly are amazing, Carl.

[StreetlightEagle]

I love Sagan, thanks for this Crosisborg!

[Solarees]

Carl Sagan, the closest to god you'll even get!

[svaught32]

One of the greatest Scientist of our time. RIP Carl

[TheUnmaskedMagician]

Sagan was the man!!

[Xenithan]

RIP Sagan.

I'm reading The Varieties of Scientific Experience right now.

[Chuloloc]

Awesome. Ode to the original amazing atheist.

[AtheistRagdoll]

Anyone who hasn't seen "Cosmos" should see it. It's inspiring. Brilliant man.

[TheArcaneAvenger]

Great man, but he was an agnostic.

Still, 5 stars.

[TheStig000]

They aren't mutually exclusive.

[TheArcaneAvenger]

I believe in this case they are.

Since he said he was agnostic and would never count anything out unless he was 100 percent sure.

[TheStig000]

Well, they aren't. Atheists generally don't say they are 100% sure. I know I'm not 100% sure, but I'm an Atheist.

[TheArcaneAvenger]

Well, I am just going off of what Carl Sagan said.

He was an agnostic, and he always denied he was an Atheist.

I think its more of a respect thing.

[TheArcaneAvenger]

True, he is an atheist just like Darwin is.

[AtheistKang]

Dude, he was an atheist. If I'm white and say that I'm black, I'm still white.

I made a comment about this below.

[TheArcaneAvenger]

He honestly did not classify himself as one.

But when you look at it logically, yes he was.

Again, it's a respect thing.

[nihilusmaster]

brilliant guy

[slipcurve]

Carl Sagan was the man.

[rozeboosje]

He was one of the good ones

[JACKtheRIPP3R189]

Damn i forgot how long he's been dead. Nice tribute to a great man Crosis.

[Sp00lDonkey]

he was one in a million, a brilliant combination of scientists, philosopher and poet.

the first time i saw pale blue dot i was almost in tears, it is the only think i have ever experienced in my life that i would be willing to call a ''spiritual'' experience.

... in fact, im going to go watch it again.

[WoWaddict3d]

Great man

[LoogyHead]

His voice is awesome. Such a shame he couldnt live a few more years.

[MagnusIan]

It's turtles all the way down.

[jonesr999]

Thanks for posting this, CB

[Crosisborg]

You are very welcome Jones

[EbonJackal]

Amen.

[2bsirius]

Carl Sagan was absolutely amazing! Thanks for adding this. I'm rereading his novel 'Contact' right now, and I'm surprised again by what awonderful book it is. 5*s and favored.

[forensicgirl3]

Watching Cosmos as a kid was what got me interested in studying science. Thank you, Doctor Sagan!

Of course my fundie parents freaked out whenever he talked about evolution and turned the channel.

It wasn't until years later that I was able to watch the entire series uninterrupted.

[charlesandhisworld]

Carl Sagan looks a bit like Richard Dawkins.

[PISTOLcm]

Carl Sagan is the man..He's always been a hero to me.

[redquas6920]

When I was a kid I used to watch Cosmos with my dad and I like Carl Sagan, especially when he used his famous words blillions and billions and billions. If he was alive today he would tear these creationist apart EASILY.

[Atheistprimate]

I was a young lad when PBS first aired Cosmos and it changed my life.

[Blackliam]

Cosmos rocked. watch it.

[majav15mg]

Amazing that people can actually think that getting the answer wrong to the question will make you go to hell.

[danielinraleigh]

Wow. Not only is he The Amazing Atheist but he's the Real Sagan!

[Blackliam]

hahahaha

[Deathinmusic]

He really was amazing. Plus I could listen to that voice all day.

[Francie32]

I like it very interesting....

[AtheosEthos]

V.I.P. Carl Sagan

[abominableangel]

and R.I.P '96 i think it was

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Correct. You can visit has grave by way of YouTube.

[MainStreetMonochrome]

His question, "Where did God come from?", dispatches, in five sylables, all of the psuedo-metaphysics the fundies always throw up. 5 stars

[massmanthaman]

OK, good.

The only thing is, Carl Sagan was agnostic.

"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know."

- Carl Sagan

[AtheistKang]

He did not believe in a god, therefore he was an atheist.

He was ALSO an agnostic. The two terms are not mutually exclusive.

That quote is a result of Carl Sagan's misunderstanding of what an atheist is. An atheist is not someone who knows there is no god, it is just someone who lacks belief in a god or gods. Only the gnostic atheists know there is no god.

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

Pretty much, Sagan was confusing gnostic atheism with agnostic atheism.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

The problem with the word "atheist" is there's the pop-culture usage of the word, and then there's the strict construction of the word, meaning, simply, "non-theist".

It may be that Carl vollied both usages, but without full contextual texts, we can't always be sure how he was using the word.

Carl did not believe in a god. Some call that atheism. He was open (if doubtful) to the possibility of there being one, but would need hard evidence before acceping one. Some say that's agnosticism.

[allinsman]

I would definatly define Sagan as a strong (gnostic) atheist. I think that is quite clear form this video. His reasoning definatly suggested he thinks a god is an impossible proposition, as do I.

[Atheistprimate]

Yeah its pretty hard for a truly honest person to rule out the chances of a deistic type of something or other that we would class as a god if we discovered it.

Its the god who sends people to hell for naughty thoughts or responds to prayer that anyone with a brain can discard as a myth.

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

That is why 99% of all atheists are agnostic atheists who don't make a positive claim like "No god cannot possibly ever exist" just like I can't say the same about unicorns. But I can safely rule out certain gods due to logical inconsistencies like Abrahamic gods (hard atheism), but at the same time concede its possible a deistic god might exist (weak atheism). This is also why Sagan straw-manned atheism when he assumed atheists must rule out all gods (this is gnostic atheism).

[butthefollowing]

It is not God that sends some to hell or heaven.  Definition of heaven is "been close to God" and Hell is the opposite. So if you are atheist, why worry about either one ?

[Atheistprimate]

butthefollowing-

I am not worried in the least about the fantasy man in the sky that cults like Christianity use as their boogyman.

Guess i just lack that self loathing factor that is needed to make someone embrace religion and all its dogma about how "broken" mankind is.

[butthefollowing]

I don't hate myself for not been perfect, but at least I know that I'm imperfect... Religion must guide to God and that's why is hard to embrace... only God is perfect (even though you think different) and only that search for God is what gives sense to this life, making us better...

[Joeybugman]

Thats a modern interperitation of hell but the bible litterally describes it as a lake of fire, and don't even get me started on the biblical discription of heaven.

[pixelatedxdeath]

indeed!

[Hamhark98]

Nice.