JFK Assassination, D.B. Thomas, Echo Correlation

[billy38010]

Quote: Clint Hill SSA--"...Large wound about the size of my fist....In the right rear...of the presidents head----"Right Rear." Over 30 witnesses ---including Dr. Malcolm Perry--Large wound in the "Anterior" portion of the presidents head---What people see in the Z-film is the rear skull fragment, blood, and hair blowing forward---Quote: Jackie Kennedy--"...in the front there was nothing...but from the back you could see, I was trying to hold his hair on.." Her WC testimony was suppressed.

[wehl3318]

oops, just saw another, clearer video. The exit wound is clearly on the front right side of the head. The exit wound is always much larger then the entry. In a clear video you can clearly see that the front right of the head has a gaping wound that spans almost the entire length of the skull. If that wound had been an entry wound the Presidents head probably would have been blown right off. So the shot probably came from the back left of the limo. But again, just read the coroners report.

[wehl3318]

hmmm. Not an expert on this. Just mulling around on the internet. I do know that the best way to determine where JFK was shot from is by examining the entry and exit wound. What did the corroner conclude? In the video we see splatter, but there will be splatter from both entry and exit. Also he was already wounded so every muscle in his body would probably be overly tensed making it possible for him to flail unpredicatbly when hit by a second shot. Anybody ever watch CSI? Thats just kids stuff.

[LordBalto]

Great interview with Thomas about his new book at BLACK OP RADIO.

[usmcoth]

Have any of you ever been around guns? Because most of you seem blind. If you don't own a gun ask someone who does (and is qualified to handle it) to shoot a watermelon and show how the liquefied from comes back at you because this states the final shot was from the grassy knoll. When you discover that it does not then you will start looking in the right direction and the book depository was not it.

[SCGATOR2001]

The audio evidence PROVES what you say about watermelon/shot direction.

The last two shots were 0.7 seconds apart, BANG-BANG. The first of those two shots was fired from the right front of the limo, it hit JFK in the head about the right ear and blew out the right back of his head.

The last shot missed JFK's head as the previous shot knocked him back and to the rear, it was fired from the TSBD and hit Connally in the back at frame 325.

The audio evidence PROVES the US Gov't is lying.

[DoubleR666]

@SCGATOR2001

i agree with many that there were more than 3 shots fired and that at least one hit JFK from the right front.

I am not so sure anymore that the dictabelt recording of cycle cop XYZ is still valid, because Dull Myers seems to be correct: there was no motocycle at the spot where the HSCA accoustic experts believed there was. Therefor the whole accoustic evidence becomes invalid and inaccurate -- unfortunally. or am i wrong on this ?

[SCGATOR2001]

The odds of noise causing impulses on the tape that were separated at just the right time sequence are ASTRONOMICAL, saying it another way, the audio tape did capture the sounds of the shots. That tells us how many shots were fired AND it tells us WHERE THE THREE SHOOTERS WERE LOCATED! That information is CONSISTENT with other evidence including many witnesses.

Elsie Dormer film shows motorcycle coming around the corner. Look at my videos THE BIG LIE to see the timing. Myers is wrong.

[Exiles800]

I'd have to say if the acoustic spike 1.7 seconds after the first missed Tague shot is being claimed to be an echo, that is an extremely long dwell period for an echo. However if it is a second shot or shooter it missed because there's no accompanying injury to any targets. They have the final two shots reversed. The shot from the Depository hit and the shot from the Knoll missed. There's no necessary evidence of an injury from the Knoll side. There is from the Depository side.

[SCGATOR2001]

A significant number of people claim that the last two shots were fired "almost on top of each other."

Two independent forms of evidence show that the last two shots were fired 0.7 seconds apart, BANG-BANG, that is the main reason that the government claims that these people heard echoes.

People heard BANG-BANG

The audio recording analysis proves it

You can see the effects in the Zapruder film.

[SCGATOR2001]

Here is significance of this information: IF the audio evidence is valid, and I prove elsewhere that it is, then that proves that some of the autopsy information is faked.

Then the next question is: WHY did the government fake evidence? That question is easily answered and the whole house of cards this lie is built on comes crashing down.

No evidence of a shot from the knoll? There are many medical personnel who say there was a massive wound in the back of JFK's head.

[Exiles800]

I've seen enough phony information from the official investigation to allow that. However you hurt your own cause by suggesting the Grassy Knoll shot exited out the rear occipital wound witnessed at Parkland. If you line up a Knoll shot from the smoke puff source it couldn't possibly take a 90 degree left turn and exit out the back of the head.

[SCGATOR2001]

Dr Crenshaw is the only one that I've seen who describes the entrance wound as the right ear and then the back of the head exit about the size of a man's fist.

If you draw an imaginary line from the right ear to the right back of the head you'll see the line is about a 45 degree angle to the head which is consistent with a grassy knoll shot.

[Exiles800]

I disagree. If we were to line up Kennedy's head which was turned 23 degrees left at the time of the head shot and the position of the limousine at frame 313 vs the Grassy Knoll shooter position (let's say the Badge Man spot) the angle would be closer to perpendicular. It would be very unlikely any such shot would exit on the right rear side. Take a look at Zapruder and you will see. Do the angles geometrically. The bullet would have to make a sharp left turn.

[davidemerling]

Here's the tie-breaker in the debate. After the dust settles, those who stand by the validity of the acoustics evidence and believe shot(s) were fired from the grassy knoll have to concede that this phantom shooter ... MISSED!

Then they'll say, "Fine! He missed! But if a shot was fired from there - then there was a conspiracy!"

But they'll say this after arguing that Kennedy WAS hit from the front.

They usually can't make up their mind.

[SCGATOR2001]

"have to concede that this phantom shooter ... MISSED!"

That is ONE CONCLUSION that is frequently thrown out there, to believe that you have to accept the validity of the autopsy photographs and the autopsy.There are MANY witnesses who state that monkey business took place, we have to accept the possibility that the government altered evidence.

When you look at the acoustics analysis and compare to the government held evidence, only one can be right.

Probabilities tell us the right answer.

[Exiles800]

That's not how it works. As far as evidence for conspiracy, once you admit there was valid conspiracy evidence to make a tie you have admitted evidence of conspiracy. This isn't a final score wins football game. The obvious answer is that there was a conspiracy and Kennedy was shot from behind. (Or, perhaps, the evidence was really drastically tampered with)

[SCGATOR2001]

The answer is the evidence really was drastically tampered with.

When the gov't held autopsy photos were first shown to Parkland Doctors on 1988 NOVA, they tried to OW and AHH their way out of it, they talked about folding the scalp back over the massive wound.

The doctors couldn't comprehend that the photos had been altered which would have shown history, see, no conpiracy! but Oliver Stone and the records review act screwed that up, along with earlier pressure to release information.

[SCGATOR2001]

the obvious answer is JFK was shot at from the back three times and two other gunmen fired 2 other shots from the front

Three shooters, five shots. That is what the acoustic evidence PROVES.

[gotch09]

The end result-because Oswald is dead, we'll be arguing a hundred years from now, about this assassination And even if Oswald had lived to stand trial, who's to say we'd ever known the truth, either..

[SCGATOR2001]

We will not be arging a hundred years from now, the answer is easily known once you know the audio evidence is valid.

We know that the audio evidence is valid because the last three shots are separated by 4.8 seconds and then BANG-BANG, two shots 0.7 seconds apart on BOTH the Z film and the audio recording. NIce lie but it's time to tell the truth.

[ShutterBun2]

Answer me this:

1.Have you listened to the actual acoustic recording (or a reasonable facsimile thereof; i.e. unaltered)

2. Which version did you listen to ?

3. How many times did you listen to it?

4. Do you deny hearing the phrase "hold everything secure" during the shooting sequence?

5. Do you honestly believe there's anything but static and motorcylce noise on that portion of the tape?

[SCGATOR2001]

Your first four questions prove beyond any shadow of a doubt you have no idea what you're talking about, these are the kind of silly observations that a fool like Bugliosi falls for.

Echo correlation analysis looks at not just the impulse from the shot itself, it looks at all the impulses from each echo and correlates them to test shots fired in 1978 for the HSCA.

Here's the part you don't get: The impulse group is unique for each location which allows determining WHERE each shot came from!

[ShutterBun2]

Again, you are describing the process itself, not the results. The acoustic tests done for the HSCA were *horribly* flawed. For one thing, the motorcycle cop they specified as having the "open mic" was nowhere near where they required him to be. For another, it's almost inconceivable that he would have his radio set to the wrong channel. For a third, there are sounds of sirens "approaching then leaving" the mic's location.

Finally: "hold everything secure..." That's the nail in the coffin.

[ShutterBun2]

You're so quick to determine that I have "no idea what I'm talking about" yet you refuse to answer any of my questions.

But just for fun, here's another: how do you account for the fact that the "impulses" on the HSCA acoustic evidence do not match up in ANY WAY with the events on the Zapruder film?

And while you're trashing me, keep in mind that I am only repeating what was concluded by the National Academy of Sciences, whom I feel safe in saying "know what they are talking about."

[ShutterBun2]

My question as to how many times you've listened to the recording is still pending. Do you have any answer, except more ad hominem?

We're all familiar with echo correlation, and how groovy it is. But wouldn't you agree that it's TOTALLY WORTHLESS if it's been proven to have been recorded at not only the wrong location, but the wrong time?

If you want to refute the NSA's findings, by all means, be my guest. But it's gonna take a lot better video than this to do it.

[ShutterBun2]

The thing that always gets me about the "acoustic" evidence is that, by their own admission, the scientists who presented it to the HSCA admitted that they were basing their conclusions on "sound impulses" which would have been inaudible to the human ear (but could somehow be recorded by antiquated recording equipment?) The very definition of "acoustic" suggests an audible sound, yet they cleverly sought to cover their tracks by introducing the abstract concept of inaudible "sound impulses."

[SCGATOR2001]

IF a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

The microphone captured the sound of the impulse from the shot and each of the echoes. Each echo delay is a meaure of how far that sound traveled. When you have 26 reflections spaced in a unique pattern, you have a unique place the shot could have been fired from, a unique place the microphone had to be.

Fire a test shot from your best guess where the shooter was, if they match, you know where shooter was!

[SCGATOR2001]

The acoustic experts matched impulses to four shots, three form the TSBD (#1, #3 & #5), #4 matched the Grassy Knoll shot to JFK's head.

#2 impulse set did not match either of the above locations and the HSCA ignored the shot.

The problem is complex, a moving microphone at 10 mph (just like the Limo) around the corner during the shooting, the locations are sequential just like they had to be, the two locations match what SOME witnesses said.

Odds are astronomical shots were recorded

[ShutterBun2]

"IF a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?"

Technically speaking, no it does not, since by its very definition, "sound" is an aural sensation, which requires an ear to experience it.

Likewise, due to the limitations of both the police radio microphones and the dictabelt system, it was not possible for them to record inaudible "sound impulses." Shall we discuss Channel 2 crosstalk, and the absence of any motorcycles in the required location(s)?

[SCGATOR2001]

limitations of both the police radio microphones and the dictabelt system, it was not possible for them to record inaudible "sound impulses."

The audio experts placed micophones around the corner and recorded test shots for the HSCA study. The impulses were recorded and used to identify the location of the shooters by using a technique called ECHO CORRELATION ANALYSIS. The location of the microphone and the shooters match the only known film I know of a motorcycle going around the corner.

[ShutterBun2]

You are merely describing what the testers DID, not the fact that they were trying to match up their recordings with data that, by their own admission, COULD NOT HAVE EXISTED.

The National Academy of Sciences reviewed the acoustic studies and just about laughed it off the podium before they even got started. But they did their due dilligence, and tore it to shreds. Don't hang your hat on acoustic evidence. It's at best weak, isolated evidence, and at worst: manufactured pro-conspiracy fraud.

[ShutterBun2]

Tell ya what, if the whole "sound vs. 'sound impulse'" argument doesn't grab you, how about addressing the fact that the Dictabelt recording of the "gunshot impulses" has been proven to have been recorded at least 1 minute AFTER the assassination, combined with the fact that NO motorcycles were known to have been in the correct locations (let alone the REMOTE possibility that they were tuned to the wrong channel)

Please to explain.

[SCGATOR2001]

Has been proven? HARDLY! Actually a group of nitwit PhD's got together and decided that was proof. Here's what is going on: ONE channel was running continuously, one channel was stopping and stopping depending on transmissions and delay settings. They tried to say by that synchronization it was proof, but so what?

What they never addressed and couldn't know about was 4.8 seconds and 0.7 seconds in two TOTALLY INDEPENDENT forms of evidence, the Z film and the Acoustic Evidence.

[ShutterBun2]

"Nitwit PhD's?"  Seriously? Is that what you've been reduced to?

They knew ALL about the voice-activated nature of Channel 2. But that didn't matter! The statement "hold everything secure" from Channel 2 *coincided* with the supposed "gunshots" on Channel 1! Say whatever you want about the recording methods, etc. The point is, the open mic on Channel 1 reproduced a message from Channel 2 which is *obviously* made 1 minute after the shooting.

[ShutterBun2]

So, does your intrepid research address the fact that the HSCA's experts admitted that the "sound impulses" on the dictabelt tapes were "inaudible to the human ear," and if so, how did you personally manage to locate a 5th impulse? Also, how do you account for the fact that the supposed "impulses" have been proven to occur at least 1 minute after the assassination? Easier question: have you actually LISTENED to those dictabelt recordings? Nothing there, my friend. Nothing.

[SCGATOR2001]

Your comments prove you have no idea how the acoustic analysis of a shooting is done. The odds of noise being mistaken for the acousitcs of gunfire are so remote as to be not worth talking about, UNLESS you are government that is desparately trying to hide the truth in the Kennedy assassination.

Just why would the government lie nearly a half century after the assassination to hide the truth? The answer is pretty obvious.

[ShutterBun2]

But "the government," in all its glory, DID agree with the acoustic evidence at the time. So I am by no means defending "the government's" opinion. (insofar as the HSCA was a government sponsored group) Considering that the dictabelt evidence has been overwhelmingly proven to be inaccurate (by smarter people than both of us) in the meantime, I'd say it's VERY likely that pops and clicks on an old tape can quite easily be mistaken for gunfire, even by "the government."

[SCGATOR2001]

Considering that the dictabelt evidence has been overwhelmingly proven to be inaccurate (by smarter people than both of us) in the meantime, I'd say it's VERY likely that pops and clicks on an old tape can quite easily be mistaken for gunfire, even by "the government."

The people who "proved" the acoustic evidence invalid are not smarter than me, I can prove that.

DB Thomas (in video) in coorespondence with me proved he is confused too.

[ShutterBun2]

Quote: "The people who "proved" the acoustic evidence invalid are not smarter than me, I can prove that."

Feel free to do so.

[ShutterBun2]

Key point: The HSCA "experts" reviewing the dictabelt evidence were reviewing channel 1 (which had the open mic) and not Channel 2, which this documentary (and DB Thomas) are referring to. Channel 2 did not have an open mic. His studies, therefore, are an exercise in futility (and indeed a reflection of how credible future researchers ought to consider "experts" in given scientific fields)

[ShutterBun2]

So sad to see someone as respectable as Bill Kurtis lend his voice to such a horrendously flawed documentary series.

As for the dictabelt evidence, are you serious? That evidence has been thoroughly demolished by the scientific community time and time again. I strongly urge you to read some more critical literature on that evidence.

[SCGATOR2001]

The "scientists" who put their name on their hollow analysis have proven that they are hardly researchers but instead are useful idiots.

[corydwalker]

At :40, it says that shot #3 hit both JFK and JBC. That doesn't match up your other videos that say that Connally was hit after the fatal shot to JFK at Z313.

And the rogue #2 shot is just a cheap way of making the theory work since there is no proof of a rogue shot.

[SCGATOR2001]

This is the ONLY Documentary that has FIVE shots, the others use the HSCA FOUR. Dr. Thomas' contribution is that he identified that the HSCA said only FOUR, that is NOT enough shots to explain all the wounds to the three men.

I am the ONLY one who correctly identifies when Connally is shot in the back hence Dr. Thomas' descriptions are WRONG. He buys into the SB lie but at least he getsTWO SHOTS RIGHT and that is the grassy knoll shot hits JFK #1 hits Tague. Dr. Thomas rejected BANG-BANG

[grumpytosnowwhite]

Yeah. And what it really says is that there was *at least* four shots. Four shots were definitely identified. There were sounds that suggested more, but they couldn't be made absolutely certain.

[PabloPena108]

As far as it being a "risky" assassination. To be sure the shooter was pretty ballsy. This is why many Conspiracy wacks as you like to call us believe it was Lucien Sarti as he was known to take risky assignements. It also well known that he would don a uniform that was "appropriate" to the killing. If he indeed did wear a police men's uniform, in the hectic aftermath of the assassination. Who would stop him?

[SCGATOR2001]

Look at my video UNDERSTANDING THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION. The link is a video response to this video. In it, I show the last two shots were fired a split second apart.

IF you look at this video AND your IQ is > Room Temperature, then you can see a correlation. IF not, listen to others and remain CONFUSED!

[SCGATOR2001]

Dr. Thomas' attempt at coordinating the 5 shots captured on the Dallas Police Radio is the BEST that's ever been shown on any documentary BUT it still has MAJOR errros in it (that's the nicest way I can say it's WRONG).

Dr. Thomas still tries to make the Magic Bullet work which is pretty silly. See my vido UNDERSTANDING THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION to see what happened with with the last TWO SHOTS. Notice the last two shots were BANG-BANG! Dr. Thomas does NOT recognize the importance of that!!

[cdddraftsman]

Try :

'National Academy of Sciences, Report of the Committee on Ballistic Acoustics'

for a update that squashes Thomas's amatuer antic's .

[PabloPena108]

What you fail to understand is that much of D.B. thomas' work is piggy backed off BBN and he even credits one of their scientists for his help in his work.

Bolt Beranek & Newman is regarded as the most prestigious Acoustic research firm in the world and head and shoulders above NAS. Sorry to disappoint you.

[cdddraftsman]

the USG who must of hired the 'Apple Dumpling Gang' to perpetrate JFK's demise with weaponry supplied by the 'Salvation Army' is my best guess ?

l) Lamenting that the all powerful USG had to use the 'Apple Dumpling Gang' who couldn't even get the right rifle into the TSBD on time for the most important hit ever attempted in all of history ?

m) My best guess is that it's all Bullshit confabulated by shit poor construct bullshit con-artists for personal profit and self aggrandizement .

[cdddraftsman]

, so wouldn't conspiracy be trying to collect as many bullets as possible and hide them rather than planting more ?

j) Jerks posit that *They* planted the 'Magic Bullet' in pristine condition so it would be tied to Oswald's rifle yet years later it was proven that bullets like CE-399 can transverse 48 inches of ponderosa pine boards or 12 inches of the toughest elm wood and come out undeformed and looking pristine ?

k) Kooky Conspiracy Apologist's rack it up to 'Bad Luck' on the part of

[cdddraftsman]

h) Hi-jacking history isn't a perfected way of sedition and treason yet so planting a 'Magic Bullet' that was to be tied to the patsy's weapon before they knew that bullet would be the 'one two many' that would blow the lid off the 'Lone Nut' thesis and make conspiracy a forgone conclusion was constructed with quite a bit of haste , to say the least ?

i) Interesting that CAer's have 218 posited alternate assassins and helpers blasting away at the cripple JFK

[cdddraftsman]

e) Estimated that shooting from the worse position imaginable "the 3 o'clock shooting position" , from the grassy knoll would be a difficult if not impossible shot to guarantee a hit upon JFK as a insurance shot ?

f) Forgetting that a sea of cars would be blocking quick egress from the crime scene for any additional shooters ? LNer's didn't .

g) GinnyGoonBa of course discounts Lee Bowers in a railroad tower l@@king at the rear of the Grassy knoll area as JFK's motorcade went by ....Why ?

[cdddraftsman]

whirling away with frightful rapidity , not only sounds illogical , doesn't it sounds stewpid ?

c) Ceeing is believing ? Yet no first day 'primary source' affidavits filed after the assassination mention seeing any shooter other than from the TSBD ?

d) Dummy's swallowed this one whole : It took the likes of a person like the "Crayola Color Master" of forged photo's .. GinnyDaGoonBa of 'Scotland Y a r n' to find badgeman in a 1/16th inch blow up from the Mooreman Photo ?

[cdddraftsman]

Keep in mind that conspiratards are trying to frame one individual : Lee Harvey Oswald ... Right ?

So how logical is it that Conspiracy :

a) As almost a afterthought , would place a shooter on the Grassy Knoll in *FRONT* of JFK in order to frame a patsy who's gun would be found *BEHIND* JFK when he received his wounds ?

b) But doesn't shooting from a exposed position on the grassy knoll or picket fence area with 500 witnesses in and around Dealey Plaza , 30 of which had camera's

[PabloPena108]

Uh, I think it was the Warren Comission who framed 1 individual. As far as an "afterthought", you're twisting things. The conspirators just wanted to kill Kennedy. They were shooting from Both in front AND behind. the only "framing" was using Oswald's rifle knowing his unstable background would make him a great patsy. As far as a "sea of cars" we know that simply wasn't the case from Bower's testimony.

[proudfootz]

Too many shots too close together for Oswald to have been the 'lone assassin'.

[SCGATOR2001]

The GAME that is played is that "We just don't think that the recording actually captured the shots."

Hold it there, it's just noise, anything but admit that it actually captured at least 5 shots and maybe 6.

The HSCA in 1978 said there were only 4 shots as they analyzed shot #2 away. IF Connally was not shot in the back right after the sign by shot #3, then WHEN was he shot? The simple answer is he was shot by #5, shot #4 hit JFK in the head, Shot 5 hit JGC's back, it bent him over then!

[PabloPena108]

I worked for Bell Labs in the early 90s performing acoustic research for the Navy. I can assure anyone that a sharp noise like gunfire or a firecracker provides a unique acoustic signature. To say "We just don't think that the recording actually captured the shots" is bullshit and shows an amateur with no knowledge of acoustic physics. The signal to noise ratio for this type of event is dramatic and would not be confused with "background noise".

[VinnyVoom444]

Here is all you need to know about cddraftsman, (aka: BigPapaShitz, aka: Mag30th, aka: pajasa62, aka: ninnydumbdumb, etc., etc., etc.). In short he is a lying disinformation agent, a delusional sociopath, and a simple gutless internet coward. Bon appetite fucktard:

youtube dot com/watch?v=urNbQVFPUzU

watch?v=7vzIxkq9EEc

watch?v=XZWtsX2IZy8

And yes, Bob Harris reposted them. Enjoy!

[mag30th]

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