Spock Logic The Needs of the Many

[lethalxlunacy]

aka utilitarianism. aka a philosophical argument with too many loopholes to make any sense.

[2jerseyjoe]

Amazing, this gets ignored till something is posted! I'm soo old and soo tiredm time for you kids to screw it up; :D

[2jerseyjoe]

Like anyone here will be in the top 1% Most of you won;t make the top 20% Anyway its all about paying the same share. Under Regan it was 28% now the top guys are screaming about 15% while the poor are carrying the largest burden. Thats why YOU won;t get there.

[TheGundy]

@2jerseyjoe "most of you won't be in the 1%" Well....isn't that just the definition of the 1%? hahahaha

[delta38vader]

Sentinel Prime:How doomed you are Autobots,you simply fail to understand,that the neeeds of the many outweigh the needs of the few!

[FrancisGalton]

Anyone who could equate that maxim with 'health care reform' is an idiot who obviously never studied real Logic in school. Since there isn't a single example of a country with a national healthcare service that isn't paring it down because of spiraling costs it's obvious it's economically unfeasible, long term. That makes your argument a non sequitur. Since most people in this country (i.e. the "many") had health care coverage already their needs outweigh the few who don't. THAT'S Logic!

[BONGmedien]

Fucking vulcan commie! He hates the Federation and the Freedoms it is based on!

[KutWrite]

@BONGmedien - The Federation is not based on freedom. It is nation building and...

Can you imagine the tax rate to build all those ships and stations, man them and maintain and fuel them? Can you imagine just their uniform budget?

How many meals = one dilithium crystal?

Back on Earth everyone must've lived in huts and slaved like madmen.

A definite Soviet model.

[BONGmedien]

@KutWrite Im not a supporter of the soviet state model, if thats what you think...

[crackz123]

@KutWrite there is no money in star trek.if they do have the ressources, its no problem. if not,its impossible.but today,just money is building a barrier between the most of the people on earth and the ressources.in our system,money provides the power of the top 1% because its protecting the wealth and ressources from the other 99% quite well.

we have the ressources to house everyone and give anyone medical treatment etc.nobody would have to suffer hunger,if it comes to the ressources.

[erdanidi]

SOCIALIST! 

[RamWorkz]

@ArcticFox91 hes not a sell out. he was Galvatron in the 86 transformers movie, and hes related to Bay.

[Str8UpPrime]

For those who are upset that Sentinel Prime used this line, it's because Leonard Nimoy VOICES Sentinel Prime!

[LucasTheAutobot]

Sentinel Prme! Who would know you liked Star Trek?

[KITT171]

Transfailures ruined this line, which has been around for over 20 years, so sad.

[PeachWookiee]

I wonder if Prime Spock told NuSpock. "Perhaps if you encounter the Botany Bay... you should destroy it."

[JamesGod08]

This is a profound statement.

[RamWorkz]

quit bitching over tf3 having this line. as long as leonard nimoy said it, it doesnt affect anything

[ArcticFox91]

@RamWorkz In my oppinion that makes it that much worse. It means Nimoy is becoming a sell out. And of all the things to sell out on, this should not have been it. I only hope he was forced by contract. It is insulting that such a pile of steaming fail would try to hold a candle to the best performance nimoy has ever given. Micheal bay looked at that line and said. "I can deliver that better." DX DX DX DX DX DX AAARG!!!! RAGE!!!!

[TheKidReticence]

hitler must have saw this and said "the needs of ger-many, outweigh the needs of the jew"

[charlesvan13]

@TheKidReticence

And when Shatner directed S.T. V he realized "The needs of my ego outweigh the needs of the many or the one."

[TheSteakJustice]

POLITICS!

[moviebakerperson]

and then came star trek insurrection where Picard fights to allow 600 people to use radiation that could save billions of lives.

[jayceexr3]

@moviebakerperson Picard is like Chuck Norris. You can't argue against him without loose

[Durhandoni80]

Spocks Logic is wrong in the long term. It is utilitarism, if he thinks the needs the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one. Kant would reply the needs of the one is much worth as the needs of the many, but only if the one doesn´t use the many as means but as individual ends.

[ohsnapitsme59]

I saw this in NYC when it come out. Everyone already knew Spock was going to die. But I cried like a baby and still do when I see this scene. In the theater, sitting in back of me, was a big, biker looking kind of guy and he was bawling. BAWLING. Never forgot that.

[DeathTaringuero]

when I heard this same line in transformers 3 i wanted to cry

[Dally3232]

@DeathTaringuero

Me too.

Out of rage, of course.

[biagnisinturon]

@DeathTaringuero ...me, too. Because Transformers 3 was horrible and illogical, right?

[TheLostProphecies]

@DeathTaringuero Yeah... the way it has been butchered...

[phocjame]

Ten charity workers for a hundred murderers - fair trade?

[PiterNguyenPhouc]

sentinal prime was voice by the actor who played spock and in the movie he said the same thing but in a negitive way(be betrade the autobots).

[henriquedematos]

@PiterNguyenPhouc Exactly! That moment was awesome!

[thegreatcheesedemon]

The needs of the many bugs outweigh the needs of the few bugs. Or the one bug.

[venom82]

Nimoy is using it in Transformers for those that don't know.

[venom82]

It's Nimoy's line! He can use it at any time!

[reycage]

The line is only used once in the film... and what a line it was

[Sutidude]

Sure they used it in Transformers 3 but it's nothing to bitch about

[cjcool91]

@Sutidude um yes it is they took an iconic line and completely ruined it and its original statement

[Sutidude]

@cjcool91 No it ain't. They didn't rape it, they didn't butcher it, it's just a fucking line.

[cuteepiemarcy]

@cjcool91 fuck off man its nimoy's line he can use it anytime

[Jet134]

they raped this line in Transformers

[Sutidude]

Why is everyone so mad over a single line?

[endertwelve]

Bye bye Sentinel. Even though you were voiced by Nimoy, you're STILL not Spock.

[Sniper77897]

Did anyone else come here because of Transformers

[av6162]

@Sniper77897 I was howling when I heard this line in new Transformers flick. And they even got a clip of a ST episode in the early part of the film.

[Sniper77897]

@av6162 Did not see that clip. will look for it later

[CMDRKillsalot]

Goddamn you Michael Bay!

[kea919306]

FUCK MICHAEL BAY

[666CountDracula]

i thought it was kind of cool they had him say this as sentinel prime despite wat a dick sentinel was

[ralphy329]

people are getting into religious, government, and theological debates over this. I thought saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few referred to him dying to save his crew. Not some religious or economical argument.

[Elfworks12greg]

Frankly, I was pissed off when he says this as Sentinel Prime.

[pie2413]

"... activating the space bridge now."

Goodbye Sentinel Prime. Your voice actor was awesome, but you were a tool.

[2013venjix]

@pie2413 I smiled When Sentinel Prime said that quote. As far as i know, he hasn't said that in 30 years.

[TFDude101]

Rest in pieces, Sentinel Prime.

[elmochi30]

Incorrect assumption . The needs of the many (conservative america) out weigh, the needs of the few (socialist liberal america) our the one (the socialist president)

[batmandeltaforce]

@gearhead2k6 Fear and hope... that's all organized religion has:)

[batmandeltaforce]

@gearhead2k6 I don't know where you got that. The concept of atonement is less than 1,00 years old. The idea that Jesus dies for our sins is a relatively new concept, and a faulty one. My God doesn't use human sacrifice or condone it. That is left over from a time when we did throw virgins in the volcano to please the gods... it's a silly idea, and one that is blind to real love. Free God from that dysfunction image. I saying one person is as important in God's eyes as "many".

[MrHoppers002]

if only the president follows this logic. rolleyes

[HumanWeasel]

Haha, I love all the hate communism is getting.

Now, I believe in marxism, but lets forget about that for a second, doesn't "AMERICAN FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY" (pretending it exists) follow the exact same doctrine? Elections? Majority? The needs of the many?

[fluidmind23]

Well actually the world is far larger (i.e. many) than japan (i.e. few) sooo.....

[marscter564]

my teacher made a reference to this. I had no idea what she was talking about. I didn't know it was from star trek.

[batmandeltaforce]

well, as long as the "one" is making the decision... you gotta respect that. But when we start throwing virgins into the volcano, then we have a problem:)

[ujudkma]

This reminds me of the Fukushima 50 in Japan.

[batmandeltaforce]

BS, everyone's needs are important. The needs of the many do NOT out weight the needs of the few or the one. That's communist BS.

[gavilatius]

@batmandeltaforce

in dire situations the rule of sacrifice comes into play where one dies to save many it's simple logic not Communism

[JapaSpooky]

@batmandeltaforce

its common decent good sense it has nothing to do with communism

[gearhead2k6]

@batmandeltaforce your saying that jesus christ is a communist? This saying dates back to the bible meaning that jesus' death, the need of the few(one), did not out weight the need of the many, mankind.

[nrkgalt]

Actually, Spock did not sacrifice himself here. If he had not caused his own death, then everyone on the ship, including him, would have died. The needs of the one versus many get flipped around in Star Trek III, when 6 Enterprise officers put their lives, careers, and freedom at risk to save 1 person, Spock.

[gavilatius]

We need more Spocks in the world

[routhoula]

@gavilatius but not more sentinel primes :P

[Se7enBeatleofDoom]

@gavilatius f this film was made now. Fox News would of attacked star trek for promoting socialism and for some how starting the occupy moment. :P lol

[KutWrite]

@Se7enBeatleofDoom - Fox News supports global socialism. Haven't you gotten that yet?

Note their (non) coverage of any true Constitutionalist.

[jonahe]

wake up

this is simply utilitarianism

utilitarianism is simply brilliant

this is simply brilliant

[JoeJones3001]

@jonahe

Utilitarianism does have some quite fatal flaws, so its not simply brilliant, its good, but not perfect

[jonahe]

@JoeJones3001

I don't know exactly what flaws you speak of, but I have yet to hear a fatal one. ;)

[JoeJones3001]

@jonahe

To name a few

Can condone torture, only consequences matter - not the motive, difficulties in calculating the greatest happiness/good, can be used to persecute on an individual basis, Places happiness as the first principle and disregards any secondary sacrifice

[jonahe]

@JoeJones3001 If you are not prepared to place logic and rationality before some quite arbitrary "common sense" views of moral dilemmas, then yes, there are a few problems with Utilitarianism.

I find that all of the issues can be dealt with, either by some work-around or simply by "biting the bullet".

However, I do see your point(s). I was actually just trying to point to the fact that it, at least in this short quote, seems as if Spock is a utilitarian. In the hope of recruiting some trekkies.

[TheDuckseason]

I think that is one of the most logical statements ever made that I ever heard and can be applied to fredoms cause. I wont pay the ransom but i do have afew skillsets that can be dangerous to Enimies foriegn or domestic. Yet god stears the soul to let him handle it. It is a hard fight man against, "Though shalt not" from god ..but he is winning .. and I trust him more than my own thoughts.

God

Country

Family

In that order.....

[Dozirulf]

@TheDuckseason - Replace "God" with "species" and switch "family" to "self." "Self" can be considered to subsume one's family and other loved ones.  You'll be in better shape if you do. ;)

[spockinatormandude]

bannedbyMusloons, you have hit it spot on. What many propounders of human rights and freedom of free exchange and, often, what is essentially an anarchy, (a capitalist one, usually,) fail to realize is that freedom of exchange and ideas and the upholding of human rights and decisions includes allowing people to make collectivist decisions and even to live in communism!

[spockinatormandude]

For example, were we to be in an entirely capitalist society where free exchange of money/resources was allowed, wouldn't it be self defeating to disallow people to use their resources to create a communistic group? (Assuming it was one voluntarily joined, that is.)

[bannedbyMusloons]

Umm! No! Because you see he made the choice voluntarily to sacrifice himself to save his friends, the crew and the ship, he would have never condone imposing quotas or any system upon anyone which is what you are preaching.

[TheAvalonDon]

The powers that be want us to live in a collectivist society... and even spock has fallen victim to it. Collectivism is the gear with which we climb the slippery slope of devalued human life

[scattingwithjaja]

@TheAvalonDon and even spock? spock is a fictional character, not a actual person.

Only reason I am looking this up is because of big bang theory.