There is no such thing as 'free' health care, but perhaps more efficient health care. This video is misleading. The featured patient is suing his government for reimbursement $28,000, so apparently he believes in single payer after all! Second, although perhaps as a business owner he could afford it, I doubt he would have liked paying $799/month for pvt health insurance for all his employees. Last, more victims like this could be found in the US system and similar short films made about them.
The true death panel chocodick, are the 45,000 Americans that die EVERY YEAR because they can't access care in the U.S. due to cost. Nice system. Keep it.
@MadHabber93 That is a statistic that is based on faulty information, but it fits your template, so don't check into it any further. If an American is poor they can get government healthcare. I know people that "can't afford health insurance" who have nice homes, drive luxury cars, and take fabulous vacations. Just because you don't have health insurance doesn't mean you don't have access to healthcare. The government of Canada contracts with some US hospitals to provide advanced care.
@Boetica1960 Yes, Harvard is known for its faulty studies. And sorry to burst your bubble, but the Gov't of Canada does not contract healthcare, the provinces do. Do some provinces contract out care, the EXACT same advanced care we have here as well, for some border cities?? Yes. As its far easier to send someone from a small Canadian city that is directly across the border to a major U.S. city, then send them hours away to the next major Canadian city which has that 'advanced care.'
@MadHabber93 You're right. Compare that with 'scores of Canadians die while on long waiting lists for needed surgery.' (source: timelymedical.ca faq page) I wish no one had to die, but every time I hear of private health insurance executives getting $400 million dollar bonuses while they 'manage' care, I remind myself that we already have 'death panels'.
@MeinenTuben I love how they put 'scores' of Canadians die on waiting lists, yet where do they source from? There isn't 1 study showing that 'scores' of Canadians die on wait lists. Not to mention their extremely misleading numbers on wait times. I love the 'up to' part. They claim up to 4 months for a CT scan, when Ontario wait time reports show 90% of patients receive one for NON-urgent conditions in 38 days or less. 12 months for an angioplasty?? Cripe, my cousin of 44 got one in 3 days.
As a Canadian I think our system would be a bad idea in the USA. Right now American companies are hiring and or relocating to Canada because they don't have to pay onerous insurance premiums for their employees. Keep it up America with NAFTA and private medical insurance were laughing all the way to the bank. Next week I"m off to buy up some bargain basement Florida real estate just like my neighbour. God bless you American dumbasses...you'll believe anything.
"just wait to die like so many American do every year" WHAT?! LOL - that is the most UN-informed post.
Every ER in America is open to anyone regardless of ability to pay. We have MEDICAID for our poor - too bad govt broke the system and it won't serve those that really need it.
Although it proves socialism FAILS AGAIN - our program is broke and doesn't work for those who need it -
It should be fixed first, before embarking on another failed entitlement program! That is just stupid.
@sheetheads Unfortunately you know less about the health care financing system than most. ER's do not perform non-emergent brain surgery. MEDICAID does not pay unless you are indigent. This leaves only two categories - super rich people who can afford dropping 10's of thousands of dollars on health care expenses, and middle class who must pay whatever protection racket the insurance companies decide to dream up (and skim 25% in administrative costs from) or go bankrupt.
"just wait to die like so many Americans do every year. The US has more poor uninsured citizens then Canada has people. "
What an utterly un-informed comment - we have MEDICAID for our poor. Yes our own socialized program to "save the masses from medical bills and medicare as a safety net for our senior citizens"
Unfortunately Govt has spent all the money, can't afford to truly help those in need and once again -
SOCIALISM FAILS.
See the next post - if you live in UK, you GO WITHOUT.
You see - so many are going to be screwed! Govt denials of care!
The NHS is planning on extensive rationing of surgery in order to meet budgetary needs. The service is looking at eliminating literally millions – with an “m” – of surgical procedures because it simply can no longer afford them.
The intent is to “save” 29 billion by telling patients in need of those procedures “no.” - the same outcome is almost guaranteed here (in USA)...
I would much rather wait in line with everyone else and get help, rather then not be able to afford healthcare and just wait to die like so many Americans do every year. The US has more poor uninsured citizens then Canada has people.
I stil can't believe this video! The Canadian health care system iiiss the government. If there's a patient rights issue it's going to be the government. During the last 3 years in the US, there were 651000 people denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions. You found 1 person in Canada with a pateint rights issue and you think it's some kind of "gotcha moment"? Seriously?
Canada is Canada; it doesn't represent the nearly entire western world which does have universal health care. Opponents of universal health care use fear tactics by finding 2 people (McCreith and Shona Holmes) who were let down by the Canadian system. In the US there are thousands, if not millions, who have been let down because they can't afford health insurance. It just doesn't add up and the scare tactic is effective, yet completely incorrect.
Everyone who has said "not here in the US OF A (we are SOO badass)" "people would not have to wait for FREE healthcare HERE" think of this - YOU CANT AFFORD HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF MEDICAL BILLS YOU ARMCHAIR RTARD
Here is a short course about HC in USA - FREE care to undocumented, illegal aliens! So, for you "canadians' talking about how uncaring the US system is - LOOK AT THIS:
/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI&feature=related
Under YOUR system, this guy and many canadians DIE WAITING for the "FREE" care - not in the USA.
How sad for you socialized system and you poor people.
The niggers and mexicans want a free ride in our society, on the backs of those (like myself) who are rich. Well, go to hell. White people are SICK and TIRED of paying for you stupid morons who don't know how to stop breeding like aids infested rats and roaches!
Haha, I almost hope you people vote Palin so you would see how fucking backward you really are.
You guys should change the name of your movement to 'Rupert Murdoch's Free-Tards'. I love how you fundamentalists are actually scaring people away from your ideas with your extremism and are essentially going to hurt your candidates chances come the mid-term elections.
Oh yeah, enjoy your new healthcare system and enjoy marijuana legalization...and gay marriage;which will be coming to you soon.
What a CROCK...if it was really that bad in Canada, people would complain. They BRAG about their healthcare. What do you want uninsured people to do- pay hundereds a month for poor care like they do now? Die?? It is INSANE how the insurance lobbyists get these poor deluded and ignorant people to believe that healthcare is bad for you! STOP drinking the koolaid and get educated! Healthcare is a good thing! I work for the government and get the best, but not everyone is so lucky!
@leahartlee29 - They ARE complaining. Everything MAY be covered, but you have to wait forever to get it. If you had a brain tumor, would YOU want to wait 4 months to find out if it was malignant and then more months to TALK to a neurosurgeon BEFORE scheduling surgery?
And all of that is really irrelevant. The MAIN point is....WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD I BE FORCED TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE IN A SUPPOSEDLY FREE COUNTRY?
For that, the bleeding hearts have no real answer.
@pattoncarter Here's two answers: One, because freedom doesn't mean a damn thing if you're not healthy, and two, because they're paying for your health care as well.
Hey chumps,,just start PAYIN fo MY HELF CAYA NOW...I needs YOU PAY fo ME HELF CAYA NOW...I needs da good doctors to write som good scrips soze ize can git off da cough syrup man you know what i mean man...jus git on wid all dat REDISTRIBUTIN of WELTH I KEEP HEARIN ABOUT.....now man..an smile when i told you dat man......it all be worf it man,,,all be worf it.....
So we can either have our healthcare paid for or we can have fast paced care for those few who can afford it. We can't have it both ways. The only reason why he could have access that quickly is because a large number of Americans go without medical care altogether.
How dare he appeal to the Canadian government for a reimbursement when he flagrantly ignored the rules? The problem with this company is that in their eyes a person is valued only in assets.
THE current bill is not the answer ,,,does not address proper Tort Reform, "undocumented" access for expensive non-life threatening HC , & does not provide MOST IMPORTANTLY an OPT OUT Provision for those that believe it is still too bloated with waste & inefficiencies resulting in inflated premiums not in keeping with services provided.
....A mandate stuffed inside a trojan horse bill for HC is a skunk in the road...too stupid to debate...
You have that right! I've finally waded through the house version, and understand the senate version is similar...but twice the size.
The house version is simply a massive tax bill...as well as creating nearly four dozen new federal agencies, costing billions, which will regulate everything anyone in the industry does on a daily basis. It is an authoritarian nightmare of massive proportions...not at all like the Canadian system or the British system...which are simply inefficient.
What's being neglected here is the bottom line and that is, Canadians are far better cared for then Americans according to WHO statistics. I've got a feeling this guys on some HC insurance company teat!
According to WHO Stats? That ranking is highly distorted. Its a joke it. It takes things such as income inequality and well countries that have high income inequality have bad health care and then never proved the correlation between the two. h t t p : // bit . ly/ WyBIx
I did not say WHO, I said OECD, which are based on US stats bureau - Are you suggesting their data is wrong and infact the exact opposite? Again the people who do the research are not nobodies, but are in fact well educated and devote their life's to statistics. Sorry I take their word in that US has one of the lowest rates of Dr utilization as opposed to you whose theories cannot be validated, nor can your credentials.
tens of thousands? a highly disputed number my friend. Last time I checked at most 5500 Canadians went to the US in 2008 and this is for cosmetic procedures. ....again I selected the higher range. The number has deemed statistically insignficant
Your arguments not only contradict themselves...but they are incoherent at times, rambling, and you are claiming statements in my name which I did not make.
It's difficult to keep track of where you're even going most of the time. Yet you unquestioningly believe everything an obviously biased special interest group states because they also claim to be "academics"...that claim is the last refuge of liars and scoundrels these days...they sell their study "results" to the highest bidders.
Hey not my stats that state that the US has some of the lowest Dr utilization rates in the OECD...May I remind you that the US stats dep. contributes and works with them. Sorry Bias and let me guess you have no agenda at all? Sorry anyone who claims they claim they are an academic has to be a liar? Sorry what was that you were saying about blind faith. - take your own advice
Speaking about baseless - I asked you twice is the OECD stats wrong? and dodged this question twice. Clearly you are either not secure in your own beliefs or your argument the US has high Dr utilization rates is false and baseless. Again don't believe the OECD visit US stats bureau and CDC and compare your rates other nations Stats agencies
again on baseless arguments.....funny as you are the one on here who cannot cite any sources for your arguments whereas I can. Kind of ironic don't you think?
Allow me to clarify...if you've been giving empirical evidence, I must have missed those posts. You keep going back to the OECD, which the Oxford Int'l Journal for Quality Health Care states of their study that it was "rudimentary" "out of OECD's area of expertise" "used information only from major hospital systems" and a couple of dozen other criticisms. Why don't you expand your horizons...do a bit of research. Learn to understand research and study before quoting it.
Yeah then there is the WHO and you can also go directly the sources and see for yourself. Interesting how you choose not to. So again I ask please cite a source that states the US has some of the highest Dr utilization rates in the World.
Wow I suggest you read your source before quoting it. First of all these are mainly opinion pieces from individuals - sorry this is your evidence that the US has high rates of Dr utilization? Furthermore you are citing a source that sings the praises of the WHO - and sorry I was not able to find that article in the Oxford journal
Your arguments never seem to change...but they do go around in unending circles..perhaps dizziness is your issue.
I don't even know how to begin reasoning with you...I'm just glad you're not in one of my classes because trying to grade one of your papers would probably give me a migraine. They just don't make sense...much as I've tried to understand what your real point might or might not be.
I give up....rant on...insult me and others...and keep raving about the OECD and their god-like powers
With such poor reading comprehension skills, you are a professor? - Sorry I call B.S.. OECD? Sorry I have cited others that include various stats organizations from the around the world, including the CDC. Sorry I just find it odd how you cite a source....sorry I meant an opinon piece by a single person, who posted on a site that uses the OECD stats and sings the praises of the W.H.O..
Don't even bother arguing with "professor"ofliberty. I fed him fact after fact on here a while ago and he couldn't even come close to a rational argument. There is no way this guy is a professor unless it is some jerkwater community college. He has his mind made up and is pretty much trolling against socialism without understanding it and what Canada is really is. Just a tea partying free-tard. Hit view all comments and search for 'Edmontonguy' and take a look at our argument. It's a joke.
I don't "troll" against socialism, or any form of statism, no matter the label.
Honestly; you're mind is set in concrete...you have no intention of reading the US bill...obviously...parrot the "official" line of the simple...and wouldn't know a rational argument if you tripped over it...your concept of a well formulated proof is to get angry, call others names, hide behind your ignorance and false sense of self importance, and plant your feet more firmly in fantasy land. You flunk.
@professorofliberty you know what? I haven't read it. Your system was and is quite broken though and I have a hard time believing that sweeping reform - even if it isn't perfect - could possibly be worse than what you were living under before.
I don't get angry about US healthcare because, as a Canadian, it does not affect me. I believe you may be projecting somewhat if you think I'm angry. If I am rude, it is because I have little tolerance for the inflexibility and stupidity of the right.
Good lord...you have shown yourself to be either an idiot...or that you've been living in a box for the last two hundred years. How can I even begin to chat logically with someone who believes such total and complete drivel.
The standard of living in the US lags the rest of the world? Free markets don't "work"? Who do you think pulled your sorry ass out of the stone age...please pull your head out of 100 year old Marxist rhetoric and check out reality...then again, maybe you're pulling my leg.
@professorofliberty yes, it lags the rest of the world. You do know what standard of living refers to don't you? The Human Development Index (put our by the UN), which was designed to address the fact that prosperity is not only tied to economics, but also to things like education, knowledge and literacy, standard of living, life expectancy. Well, you're far from #1. In fact, there are a number of socialist countries ahead of you. Canada is #4. The US is #13. Evil socialist Norway is #1.
@professorofliberty lol, wow...I knew you guys needed some work, but doing a little Googling, look what I found.
'The Economist's' ranking of the most livable cities in the world has Vancouver (Canadian) at number one and two other Canadian cities in the top 10. The first American city is Pittsburgh (no rank indicated). US life expectancy ranks 50th (50th!) as per the CIA World Fact Book (Canada is 8th). Infant mortality in the States, you are 33. I say again - you lag the rest of the world.
@professorofliberty oh, and just a question. You have said you're a professor of economics and your employers are The U of Puget Sound and the U of Washington but there are no names which appear on both faculty lists? Are you really a professor?
Oh, and some good news! I found something that the United States is the very best in the world. Your incarceration rate is #1! That's per capita which means you lock-up more of your citizens then Russia, China, and Iran. So much for liberty, huh?
You're putting words in my mouth. I did undergrad and grad work at those schools, among others, but have never taught at either. I'm an adjunct prof now at 2 private colleges, was tenured at 2 state schools, and do guest lecturing around the country. Mainly teach Econ, Market Econ, Public Relations, Critical Thinking, and Media Relations.
Glad to see we're catching a good number of the criminals our open borders and disposable wealth attract...wish we could execute them and save a few bucks.
@professorofliberty if you think my mind is set in concrete you are wrong. I am able to admit when I am wrong and when I formulate an opinion on a subject, I tend to look for the burden of proof. The US is consistently behind the rest of world when it comes to the rest of the developed world when it comes to standard of living...and often in the name of capitalism. You guys still use the imperial system for Christ's sakes. Public healthcare is best. As demonstrated by the developed world.
You can keep dodging my request for proof the US has high rates of Dr. utilization and save what little dignity/ credibility you have left. You can also continue to dodge the question. Your choice
@SparwoodApple Get ready for a long wait if you are wait. The good 'professor' doesn't seem to respond with references or to much of anything that doesn't fit his personal ideologies. Look back about a month ago in the thread. He consistently looks, well, let's just say he doesn't look like much of a professor of anything but nonsense.
Enjoy your new healthcare system :) Trust me, you'll learn to love it just like us up here in Canada. Maybe when you realize it isn't so bad you'll turn off Fox News and start thinking for yourself.
Ouch; you still haven't read the thing. The US bill is a bureaucratic morass that doesn't begin to resemble Canada's system. Yours is about health care...this is not.
The main issue; it cannot be 100% implemented...possibly 10% will be, which is not unusual for US bills in that 300 plus every year are simply allowed to be put on the shelf...they exist but are never put into play.
The problem; full implementation would cost more than the taxable amount of US GDP, so it's literally impossible.
11% doesn't have to be a large number. If one person loses his life because they cannot get the health care they need when they need it then thats one person too many and the system/powers that be are guilty of murder.You people need to wake up and not buy into the Governments propaganda machine.
And why not be Anti Obama? The man is an admitted socialist. Thats one step away from Comunism. W fought the cold war to keep people like him out, now he and his kind has twisted the minds of so many people they can't see this socialist health care bill as the real threat to our way of life that it is. This country was made to be a Republic. Obama will choke any last vestage of the Republic from us. He is a traitior to this country and must be stoped. Impeach Obama Now! Stop Socialist Bill Now!
One small flaw in all the logic here. President Obama, and the U.S. Congress, is not proposing a single payer plan. It would be nice if they did, but they are not.
But don't let facts get in the way of your delusions.
Watch the YouTube video: "Canadian healthcare: Fact vs. fiction".
It as an accurate a testimony on how our system works than any I've seen yet. It exposes some of the propaganda you in the States have been subjected to for such a long time...when my friends and I see some of the commercials on CNN against public healthcare it really makes us laugh because some of the claims are so ridiculous. If I were a US citizen, I would be outraged at how misleading some of those commercials are
Actually...I've looked at some of your posts...all emotion...all propaganda. Even down to labeling socialization of health care as being "modern." I've taught classes on propaganda in media and my friend you are a victim.
Point of fact: identical surveys in US and Canada...almost 3 times the percentage population in Canada is dissatisfied with your system as in the US. Canada's system is entirely dependent on US technology to function. Yes, I'm a profesor, of business and economics.
Shortly after Canada implemented its current health care system the Canadian legislature was forced regulate billing caps for doctors. Why? And what is the economic principle at work that necessitated this legislative action?
I'm not saying you're not a professor of economics, but I have good cause to question your expertise in this particular field of economics.This is a fundamental principle & germane to the current discussion. You should be able to answer forthwith.
Greetings; you must be speaking of the "cap" on physician billings. It was a new term for what we call "wage and price controls" here in the states. The US tried the same thing in the '20s and we got the Great Depression as a reward.
You should note the caps have been constantly relaxed in Canada, and some provinces have now begun to lift them. All they did was encourage physicians to leave Canada or work less. Such controls always result in shortages. History proves it over and again.
There is a specific mechanism with it's principle aptly named. It's a very specific economic process... please do try again. I'd hate to give you an epic fail for getting a question wrong in your own field. In the name of fair play, I'm giving you another shot. Do you need a hint?
Nope...it's the idea of wage and price control as used as part of a centrally controlled economy. In my 40 yrs at this crap, I've seen thousands of papers, books, articles etc all claiming to be "different" and usually named after the claimant, trying to beat through the publish or perish rules of academia. Few of them are new...just rehashes...and I cal them what they are. Billing caps were a simple, and failed, wage and price control scheme...dress it up all you will...that's all it was.
Sorry wrong answer. Correct answer is "The Third-Party Buyer Effect" When health care became free to some Canadians under the new socialized medicine, doctors offices were swamped w/ more patients who wanted procedures for non-life threatening issues. Docs submitted inflated bills.The govt had to limit the practice by placing caps on what docs could charge for certain procedures. It's like when someone is asked if they want a sandwich, they say no but when they find out it's free, they ask for 2
Jeeez...if you're going to test me, match the question to the answer. 3rd pty byer effect is the RESULT of price controls. When you subsidize a product demand goes up...duh!!!
Back in the '70s Canada capped annual billings for physician practices in an attempt to get them to reduce services and costs.
Your quote above sounds like it came from a reporter...and a very confused one at that. It makes little or no sense...as reporters generally don't when they try to get technical.
actually there is little correlation between wages and number of Doctors. Ironically the US has one of the lowest Doctor to patient ratios in the industrialized. US Dr retention and growth is average in the best of times, but typically below average
That is due to technology and the ability of physicians to treat more patients more effectively here in the US. We also have some of the strictest standards for residency and licensing...which keeps the costs of becoming a physician high and creates barricades to entry.
Correlation between product and price (physicians and wages) is an economic law...but you have to look at all variables...not just the two. Taken alone...anytime you raise price...more of the product will appear on the market.
Actually the entry requirements for physicians entering into the US health system is around average for the OECD. Infact the standards to become a Dr in Canada are higher than in the U.S.. Actually the number of patients treated per Dr is not that high
How can the US have a low ratio of physicians...and yet not treat an average or greater than average number of patients?
Your claims are beginning to conflict with basic principles of math...
And I'm not sure where you're getting info on standards...I used to be on a large city hospital board...and doctors from most every nation in the world applying there had to be re-schooled extensively before they could practice in the US.
What happens when make assumptions......I won't finish the rest as you know where I am getting. US doctors do not treat as many patients as other OECD nations.
No...I still can't figure out where you're going...
Someone actually keep "stats" as to how many people a doctor sees every day? Do you mean each doctor treats a lesser number of patients? Or do you mean US citizens are less likely to go to a doctor as their health is better. Or do you mean the US population is lesser...therefore less people to treat?
I'm sorry...but nothing you say really makes a lot of sense...can't you clarify a bit?
Yes there are stats on this through various bureaus such as the OECD. Perhaps it is less likely to go the Dr, but not because the US population is not healthier (no offense)
So US citizens...with the highest disposable incomes of any large industrial nation...decide not to go to the doctor when they wish (actual Psycographic stats show US citizens are more likely to go to a physician at the slightest hint of illness than almost any other nationality).
You say they are unhealthy...but refuse medical care. None of this makes sense...and flies in the face of logic.
When you say OECD...do you mean the 30 nations that are members of the OECD? (just curious).
are you saying the OECD among others are wrong. TDr utilization is not too high in the US. These are people who devote their careers to these things. Yes Americans are amongst the most unhealthy people in the OECD
So you're claiming a loose organization of diplomats accurately tracks how many patients each doctor in America sees every day....
and you believe it? You have a lot to learn about the real world, special interest orgs in general, and what is and is not statistically possible to track...or even begin to track.
None of your posts reflect reality...you need to do real research and not just pick one special interest group and suck up everything they print.
I notice a trend in your posts. Are you a real professor? Because you seem to be pretty content to make pretty brash assumptions about some of my points. You also seem happy to make statements about our system being a "dismal failure" but haven't backed it up with anything other than assumptions and biased opinions.
I'm quite sure the professor is not a academic. All signs suggest he's a fraud. I've given him a question that any economics undergrad can answer. I chose my wording carefully; he should not be able to google my question. I'll email the principle and the academic website I produced the question from. I warned this guy not to screw with me. It's pretty much my hobby to debunk these creepy haters.
He's an ugly American... my apologies. He has an anti-Obama agenda.
Where do you get your figures about catastophic health insurance in the US? Are you sure they aren't Canadians living in the United States? That would amount to almost 10% of our population and I know absolutely no one who has purchased health insurance in the United States.
And I really have to question your assertion that all your Canadian relatives and customers come to the US when they need serious medical attention. I don't know a single person that has gone to the US for treatment and I'm a Canadian, born and raised. In fact, most Canadians will not enter the United States without purchasing health insurance in Canada first. I wouldn't dream of it, even for a few hours.
Actually, it has been running nationally since 1968 and an interesting fact for you: in 1970, Canada and the United States were about equal in healthcare spending. Keep in mind that universal healthcare was only two years old in Canada. Now, Canada spends far, far less than the United States on a public system and our level of health - including life expectancy, infant mortality rates, healthy life expectancy - are far superior to the United States statistics.
People love healthcare in Canada - though it is not without its problems. There will always be people who will find fault with it, and bad things do happen, but show me a huge organization that is perfect. Additionally, 1968 is not too long a time ago. Publicly funded health care in Canada is still in its youth and continues to evolve.
THIRTY YEARS???? That's infancy? Good lord man...if you lived in the US you would be appalled at your own statement. If we did something that was such a dismal failure and took so long we would fire 'em and change companies...whoops...you can't do that in Canada can you?
A failure? Like I just said, we pay less for healthcare and have better health than Americans.
And 30 years isn't very long when you consider the complexity of the healthcare system and the fact that it has been constantly evolving since its inception. There has been a move away from the medical model of healthcare and to establish more primary health services in line with the World Health Organization's new definition of health which incorporates a heavier emphasis on primary healthcare.
And the vast, vast majority of Canadians would be appalled at your suggestion that we should 'fire 'em'. The majority Canadians love their healthcare and time and time again have proved that they will vote out any politician that tries to mess with healthcare.
In fact, the father of healthcare in Canada, Tommy Douglas - a social democrat, was recently chosen as the greatest Canadian in history. Obama will go down as one of the greatest American Presidents if he's successful.
You missed my point...obviously not being a free market type guy. If an American started a business, or industry, and thirty years later was still trying to "get it right" they would have been put out of business about 29 years earlier because competitors would have done a better job.
My relatives and customers in Canada must be in the minority, because every one of them comes down here when they need serious medical attention. Maybe they have higher expectations...as I do.
I got your point, but I don't think you are understanding the concept of public healthcare. It is a constantly evolving system which requires additional legislation from time to time to keep it heading in the right direction. If you apply that same logic to the US constitution, it is still trying to "get it right" even after 223 years. Hasn't there been numerous amendments in that time? Too bad you can't fire your constitution (tongue in cheek of course).
I'm well aware that some Canadians do go to the US for healthcare sometimes. They are definitely in the minority though...I've read that the number is around 0.5% of Canadians have received healthcare in the US in the past year and only 0.11% sought out treatment in the US. That is around 36,000 people. And the Canadian government will reimburse them for a portion of their costs since they pay into the system. Americans have been known to come to Canada for healthcare too.
36,000...that's more than I would have thought. After all, only a certain portion of your population has need of life-saving procedures, can't wait, and has the financial ability to travel and pay for such. I thought it would be far less. I do understand, however, that more than 3 million Canadians have purchased catastrophic health insurance in the US just in case. I wonder how many US citizens travel north or buy into Canadian health care just in case. Enjoy, keep it, but keep it to yourself.
I said absolutely nothing about life saving procedures. That number includes things like elective procedures and things like MRIs...the wait lists can be a month or two for an MRI on someone who is not in desperate need. 0.11% of the population is not a large number no matter how ridiculously you try and spin it.
The greed-heads are the ones who are trying to circumvent public healthcare in Canada and even in regions with a traditionally conservative government such as Alberta, the government has failed to topple universal healthcare due to the popularity of public healthcare with the citizens.
There is always this 'socialist' talk attached to this issue. Is having a police force socialism? Is having a fire department socialism? Do you think it would benefit you if you were the only person on your block that could afford 'Police Insurance', while the rest of your neighbours wallowed in crime and wild west style retribution when they found themselves wronged by other citizens?
Do you think that if you were the only one with 'Firefighter Insurance' on your block, an untended blaze next door couldn't spread to your house as well? I remember Obama quoting the saying that a rising tide raises all boats. I think he gets it.
Obama is doing you people a huge favour by modernizing your health care system. America is the only developed nation without public healthcare!? It is almost unbelievable how far behind America is behind the rest of the developed world when it comes to the health of your citizens. Yet, you always brag that you're the wealthiest nation on Earth while the rest of the world realized long ago that true wealth isn't money; it is health.
People are denied health care in America even if they have insurance. Some even die. That's just flat-out wrong! And to rub salt in it, Health insurance CEO Bill Mcguire takes home 1.2 billion last year. No typo there - that is "billion." Don't believe me? Google it.
These vial ceos who make so much money, on human suffering,all for a profit, more than any one could ever need to live a nice life. Well you can only hope they have a great illness that is very long and drawn out and extreamly painfull. And that all their great insurance can do is ease their pain. this should be in their stars. lets hope
This guy should make a film about the little girl who didn't get her surgery in time IN THE USA!! She DIED!! Doesn't get more serious than that. He could interview her...Oh no, he couldn't, because she's DEAD! The insurance company wouldn't authorize the operation until they moved her to another hospital, so she DIED! Meanwhile, Health CEO Bill Mcguire made 1.2 billion last year. Wow! Private Health Care is just awesome!
U can still get it, u just have to pay. So its ok that the parents put a price tag on their kids life?? So they didnt "authorize" it, so they wont cover that. If it was my kid, no matter the cost, it would get the treatment. U just put a price on life. Basically thats what the government is doing with the health care.
Get real. Hospital won't schedule the surgery unless they know they're getting paid. There's a new Harvard study on the number of deaths in America due to this sort of thing.
Ummmm....If the healthcare in Canada and France and everywhere else is better than the US, THEN STY THERE! We have the BEST healthcare in the World which is why those who live in socialized medicine countries come HERE the good ol' USA when they need real help.
I live in Ontario, Canada. The province has taken great care of me. Sorry you dumb Americans, before you judge something you should know what you're judging.
(I also lived in the US for a couple years, but returned here because of the atrocious healthcare situation.)
XFuncCaRteR...Most of the anti socialism or against gov run health care videos are of people with serious illness. Have you ever had a serious illness and tried to go to your so called "great" gov run healthcare system? From your comment, I would guess you are young.
Care when I was in a head-on collision. Hospitals went out of their way on this - flights chartered to transfer me to new hospitals. Follow-up operations after that collision.
Treatment for ulcer - with diagnostic tests. Again, 15 years later a similar test.
Stress test for my cardiac capability.
My wife and I have had couple-counselling - to keep our marriage strong.
Oh yes they are. I attended an Obamacare given my a local Democrat authorized to give info. on the Presidents desired form of health care. She said that the President wanted a single payer health care system like Canada. I heard this straight from the source for Obamacare! [At Penrose Library in Colorado Springs in July 2009]
So all those videos of his and others wanting to do the public option are what.... not there? This week (5OCT09) want the single payer-gov't option i.e. Harry Reid and Pelosi. Obama will sign the bill as given to him. That means he wanted it all along.
Regarding the much discussed changes in health care in the USA, will somebody please explain which provisions of the US Constitution allow for the proposed government actions?
The problem with the whole nationalized healthcare thing is that the government should not be in the business of taking care or our every need. We are a free people, free to see to our own needs, as it should be. The government has not run anything without corruption and we have social security and medicare as examples of their inability to run anything efficiently. When they exempt themselves from the program it is a good indication something is wrong with it! Wake up people!
Free to die as well...really THIS is ridiculous !!! I come from a country where we have a great FREE healthcare system (France)...of course it costs money...but how much do you value life ?...watch SICKO from Michael Moore: this is NO science-fiction !!! I feel you are being manipulated by your media (again!)...WAKE UP, support your president and make history !!!
Just what are you saying? Are you denying the statements in this video? And citing Michael Moore? Please! That walking obese toad is no expert on health care. And, the media is so in love with Obama that any manipulation is going to be in favor of his agenda.
Nothing like that. I am just giving a testimony of what is happening in my country (France), where healh is a right for EVERYONE...It's not political...I just feel the American opinion is being manipulated by the media and pressure groups.I am just talking about a system that allows you to see any doctor (even a specialist) within a week,allows to get an operation, regardless of your income. As for Michael Moore, his testimony on France, andon the UK (I lived there for 5 years) are 100% true.
Indeed there are many great things about French health care. The insurance industry is indeed manipulating the public in the lies they are spreading Canada, which is where I live. In France and in Canada - our governments do not employ teams that nit pick every application to see how they can deny you care. There is no such thing as pre-approval of treatment
I had a seizure in Ontario. Went to ER. Had all tests that day (Sunday). They found two tumours (one larger than a golf ball). Saw head surgeon next day. Non cancerous. But he said the larger tumour must come out immediately. I said no until I could check him out and talk to family. After vetting I agreed to surgery and it was done at the end of week. Than five years of rehab to learn to talk, walk and function. The 2nd tumour we set a date and he operated (7 mons of rehab).
I would be very careful in taking a video like this seriously. It only gives one example and so it doesn't prove that the canadian system is falling apart. We would need statistics about wait times for multiple similar cases. They are only guessing about how long it would have taken to get treatment in Canada. And the video is obviously politically motivated, not an independent study. I'm not saying that the Canadian system is perfect but this video doesn't provide a fair analysis of it.
Good thing no one is proposing a Canadian style system for the US.
As soon as the general population finds out that the opponents of health reform have falsely been scaring Americans ...telling them a Canadian style system was on the way...when nothing like Canadian health care is even being proposed......as soon as they see they are being manipulated by the insurance companies and for profit hospital chains...they are going to be pissed.
angry- I have seen those links...you hear what you want to hear. He said he likes single payer, would like to do away with insurance tied to employment ( wouldn't we all?). This is not news. But he also said single payer isn't doable in America (said it many times)...he didn't ask for it ...and no one is proposing it. There is no system under consideration that is anything like the Canadian system. Saying that a Canadian style system is even on the table, is nothing but fear mongering.
Investor's Business Daily reviewed H.R. 3200,and sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee when it stumbled upon "Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage," in the "Limitation on Enrollment" section on Page 16:
"Except as provided in this paragraph the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
"So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers,"
angry- Those who have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers,"
It's on Page 16 of the House Bill: (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.— 11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in 12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance 13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll 14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first 16 day of Y1. 17 (B) DE w w w. edlabor. house. gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409. pdf They are going to remove it from the Bill now.
Angry- Page16 means there are no "go backs" to old style policies (the ones with exclusion for pre existing conditions) It goes on to clarify in pages 17-21. It clearly says that NEW polices that have no exclusion for pre existing conditions CAN be sold by private insurers. "guaranteed availability and renewability of health insurance coverage, shall apply to individuals and employers in individual and group insurance coverage, whether offered to individuals or employers"
All insurance companies have to do,to stay in the game,is offer polices with no exclusion for preexisting conditions. They then offer these new polices through the "Insurance Exchange" an online database.. comparing benefits and costs. The "Exchange" is a great idea! It means the Ins. Co's must compete across state lines. Competition is good.
But anti reform folks are trying to kill it. Lying that there will be no new policies. The truth is there will be competition and they don't want that.
They are the clowns that said: If Steven Hawking would have been treated by the British system...he wouldn't have been treated and" would be dead". They were so deep into their anti reform propaganda they failed to understand that Hawking is a British Citizen who attributes his survival to the British system and wrote an editorial saying IBD was full of shit. They didn't even know he was a Brit...just made stuff up. Investors Business daily?.. Please.
yes this the kind of system that obama is proposing you idiot!! it is socialized medicine that is controlled by the goverment which leaves us the people with no options!! rich or poor you moron!!
This is exactly what I'm talking about.. A bunch of ignorant people not having a clue what is being considered for the American people. Why don't try and get your facts right.
Obama needs to be impeached, not only for not doing more research on his Insure everyone bill;; but for his gross mismangement of our finances. Now it is over 9 Trillion deficeit, not 7 as reported before. Just like he fired the CED of GM for mismanaging his company, Obama should be fired or impeached for his gross mismanagement of our country. He has no clue what his Czars are doing becuase most of them are shady. Impeach Obama. Lawyers out there, do it now...for OUR Country's sake.
Thats right my Americans if we bow down to Government this is what we should all expect. Obama and his monkeys are wanting to spoon feed you and take care of you and tell you everything is okay...they got this one. Don't let some suit tell you what to do, you tell them what to do, they want your life and your freedom. Don't give in, know the facts and stop this Obamanition from spreading,fight for our precious freedom. America was founded on free enterprise, don't let these pigs take it away!!
Ridiculous! Absolutely ridiculous that the government can play with peoples lives like the McCreaths. Do not vote in the same Congressman and Senate if they allow this to pass in the United States of AMERICA.
I was going through some of these comments and noticed that someone from Canada said they received their treatment 'FREE". To try to make a legit point about ones care in Canada and then end by saying that it was 'FREE' undermined their entire argument.
There is no such thing as 'free' health care, but perhaps more efficient health care. This video is misleading. The featured patient is suing his government for reimbursement $28,000, so apparently he believes in single payer after all! Second, although perhaps as a business owner he could afford it, I doubt he would have liked paying $799/month for pvt health insurance for all his employees. Last, more victims like this could be found in the US system and similar short films made about them.
MeinenTuben 3 weeks ago
The true death panel chocodick, are the 45,000 Americans that die EVERY YEAR because they can't access care in the U.S. due to cost. Nice system. Keep it.
MadHabber93 11 months ago
@MadHabber93 That is a statistic that is based on faulty information, but it fits your template, so don't check into it any further. If an American is poor they can get government healthcare. I know people that "can't afford health insurance" who have nice homes, drive luxury cars, and take fabulous vacations. Just because you don't have health insurance doesn't mean you don't have access to healthcare. The government of Canada contracts with some US hospitals to provide advanced care.
Boetica1960 11 months ago
@Boetica1960 Yes, Harvard is known for its faulty studies. And sorry to burst your bubble, but the Gov't of Canada does not contract healthcare, the provinces do. Do some provinces contract out care, the EXACT same advanced care we have here as well, for some border cities?? Yes. As its far easier to send someone from a small Canadian city that is directly across the border to a major U.S. city, then send them hours away to the next major Canadian city which has that 'advanced care.'
MadHabber93 11 months ago
@MadHabber93 You're right. Compare that with 'scores of Canadians die while on long waiting lists for needed surgery.' (source: timelymedical.ca faq page) I wish no one had to die, but every time I hear of private health insurance executives getting $400 million dollar bonuses while they 'manage' care, I remind myself that we already have 'death panels'.
MeinenTuben 3 weeks ago
@MeinenTuben I love how they put 'scores' of Canadians die on waiting lists, yet where do they source from? There isn't 1 study showing that 'scores' of Canadians die on wait lists. Not to mention their extremely misleading numbers on wait times. I love the 'up to' part. They claim up to 4 months for a CT scan, when Ontario wait time reports show 90% of patients receive one for NON-urgent conditions in 38 days or less. 12 months for an angioplasty?? Cripe, my cousin of 44 got one in 3 days.
MadHabber93 3 weeks ago
TWO DEAD in AZ. They are only DEAD because MEDICAID - the GOVT DENIED their care!
DEAD. DEAD DEAD because GOVT DENIED said NO OPERATION It COSTS too MUCH - google ABC NEWS medicaid two dead Arizona.
USA TODAY - US GOVT denies HC claims by TWO TO ONE over private insurance.
We have death panels - our elected reps who have LOOTED medicaid/care and SS right in front of us.
POOR AND DEAD because GOVT said DENIED. FACT. Just like canada, UK GREECE, CUBA, SPAIN...
choclabs3 11 months ago
As a Canadian I think our system would be a bad idea in the USA. Right now American companies are hiring and or relocating to Canada because they don't have to pay onerous insurance premiums for their employees. Keep it up America with NAFTA and private medical insurance were laughing all the way to the bank. Next week I"m off to buy up some bargain basement Florida real estate just like my neighbour. God bless you American dumbasses...you'll believe anything.
sidecar771 11 months ago
How long would you have to wait for brain surgery in the US if you didn't have the $28,000?
4spdroadrunner 1 year ago
@4spdroadrunner Probably less time than you would wait in Canada for it.
Boetica1960 11 months ago
@Boetica1960 So, now all of a sudden surgery in the US is free????
4spdroadrunner 10 months ago
"just wait to die like so many American do every year" WHAT?! LOL - that is the most UN-informed post.
Every ER in America is open to anyone regardless of ability to pay. We have MEDICAID for our poor - too bad govt broke the system and it won't serve those that really need it.
Although it proves socialism FAILS AGAIN - our program is broke and doesn't work for those who need it -
It should be fixed first, before embarking on another failed entitlement program! That is just stupid.
sheetheads 1 year ago
@sheetheads Unfortunately you know less about the health care financing system than most. ER's do not perform non-emergent brain surgery. MEDICAID does not pay unless you are indigent. This leaves only two categories - super rich people who can afford dropping 10's of thousands of dollars on health care expenses, and middle class who must pay whatever protection racket the insurance companies decide to dream up (and skim 25% in administrative costs from) or go bankrupt.
MeinenTuben 3 weeks ago
"just wait to die like so many Americans do every year. The US has more poor uninsured citizens then Canada has people. "
What an utterly un-informed comment - we have MEDICAID for our poor. Yes our own socialized program to "save the masses from medical bills and medicare as a safety net for our senior citizens"
Unfortunately Govt has spent all the money, can't afford to truly help those in need and once again -
SOCIALISM FAILS.
See the next post - if you live in UK, you GO WITHOUT.
sheetheads 1 year ago
You see - so many are going to be screwed! Govt denials of care!
The NHS is planning on extensive rationing of surgery in order to meet budgetary needs. The service is looking at eliminating literally millions – with an “m” – of surgical procedures because it simply can no longer afford them.
The intent is to “save” 29 billion by telling patients in need of those procedures “no.” - the same outcome is almost guaranteed here (in USA)...
Read more at the Washington Examiner
This is BAD.
sheetheads 1 year ago
Lindsay Mccreith didnt get the surgery cause he was too busy getting a sex change op to match his name.
mbruni13 1 year ago
I would much rather wait in line with everyone else and get help, rather then not be able to afford healthcare and just wait to die like so many Americans do every year. The US has more poor uninsured citizens then Canada has people.
qw582456 1 year ago
I stil can't believe this video! The Canadian health care system iiiss the government. If there's a patient rights issue it's going to be the government. During the last 3 years in the US, there were 651000 people denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions. You found 1 person in Canada with a pateint rights issue and you think it's some kind of "gotcha moment"? Seriously?
MoralMoney 1 year ago
Canada is Canada; it doesn't represent the nearly entire western world which does have universal health care. Opponents of universal health care use fear tactics by finding 2 people (McCreith and Shona Holmes) who were let down by the Canadian system. In the US there are thousands, if not millions, who have been let down because they can't afford health insurance. It just doesn't add up and the scare tactic is effective, yet completely incorrect.
MoralMoney 1 year ago
The Canadian government is not following the Charter of rights and freedoms.
The citizens are nothing but a number.
Watch my video
Alberta Woman with blood cancer and organ failure.
Youtube fightingforjustice10
fightingforjustice10 1 year ago
I also have cancer and the Canadian Doctors were unable to diagnose my condition.
New York had no problem finding my blood cancer and organ failure.
The Charter of rights and freedoms states "everyone has the right to life"
The Canadian doctors are a disgrace.
Watch my video on Medical corruption Youtube fightingforjustice10
fightingforjustice10 1 year ago
:) hi
bananaznanaz 1 year ago
Everyone who has said "not here in the US OF A (we are SOO badass)" "people would not have to wait for FREE healthcare HERE" think of this - YOU CANT AFFORD HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF MEDICAL BILLS YOU ARMCHAIR RTARD
bdoubleot 1 year ago
Here is a short course about HC in USA - FREE care to undocumented, illegal aliens! So, for you "canadians' talking about how uncaring the US system is - LOOK AT THIS:
/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI&feature=related
Under YOUR system, this guy and many canadians DIE WAITING for the "FREE" care - not in the USA.
How sad for you socialized system and you poor people.
choclabs3 1 year ago
screww the canadiansss.
they cant do crap they are pussys.
there military sux ass.
mellbell304 1 year ago
yea it works.....i am a canuk and none of my friends are bankrupt or left pennieless from health issues
yogashot 1 year ago
not true my mom and dad both had cancer and both got optimal care both still living and both have great doctors!!
yogashot 1 year ago
Canada ranked 30th in the world for health care. USA ranked 37th. That's all the information u need.
Alcan196 1 year ago
PEOPLE IN CANADO DO COMPLAIN!!! I know ppl from there that hate the fact that we now have this!
ilovesmusic1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The niggers and mexicans want a free ride in our society, on the backs of those (like myself) who are rich. Well, go to hell. White people are SICK and TIRED of paying for you stupid morons who don't know how to stop breeding like aids infested rats and roaches!
TeaPartyPatroit 1 year ago
Haha, I almost hope you people vote Palin so you would see how fucking backward you really are.
You guys should change the name of your movement to 'Rupert Murdoch's Free-Tards'. I love how you fundamentalists are actually scaring people away from your ideas with your extremism and are essentially going to hurt your candidates chances come the mid-term elections.
Oh yeah, enjoy your new healthcare system and enjoy marijuana legalization...and gay marriage;which will be coming to you soon.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
What a CROCK...if it was really that bad in Canada, people would complain. They BRAG about their healthcare. What do you want uninsured people to do- pay hundereds a month for poor care like they do now? Die?? It is INSANE how the insurance lobbyists get these poor deluded and ignorant people to believe that healthcare is bad for you! STOP drinking the koolaid and get educated! Healthcare is a good thing! I work for the government and get the best, but not everyone is so lucky!
leahartlee29 1 year ago
@leahartlee29 - They ARE complaining. Everything MAY be covered, but you have to wait forever to get it. If you had a brain tumor, would YOU want to wait 4 months to find out if it was malignant and then more months to TALK to a neurosurgeon BEFORE scheduling surgery?
And all of that is really irrelevant. The MAIN point is....WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD I BE FORCED TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE IN A SUPPOSEDLY FREE COUNTRY?
For that, the bleeding hearts have no real answer.
pattoncarter 1 year ago
@pattoncarter Here's two answers: One, because freedom doesn't mean a damn thing if you're not healthy, and two, because they're paying for your health care as well.
Shanbo26 1 year ago
Hey chumps,,just start PAYIN fo MY HELF CAYA NOW...I needs YOU PAY fo ME HELF CAYA NOW...I needs da good doctors to write som good scrips soze ize can git off da cough syrup man you know what i mean man...jus git on wid all dat REDISTRIBUTIN of WELTH I KEEP HEARIN ABOUT.....now man..an smile when i told you dat man......it all be worf it man,,,all be worf it.....
hadenufnow 1 year ago
this person is too ignorant to even rant. he should have not been allowed a response. what a jerk.
stardustsara 1 year ago
So we can either have our healthcare paid for or we can have fast paced care for those few who can afford it. We can't have it both ways. The only reason why he could have access that quickly is because a large number of Americans go without medical care altogether.
How dare he appeal to the Canadian government for a reimbursement when he flagrantly ignored the rules? The problem with this company is that in their eyes a person is valued only in assets.
pomegranategrail 2 years ago
THE current bill is not the answer ,,,does not address proper Tort Reform, "undocumented" access for expensive non-life threatening HC , & does not provide MOST IMPORTANTLY an OPT OUT Provision for those that believe it is still too bloated with waste & inefficiencies resulting in inflated premiums not in keeping with services provided.
....A mandate stuffed inside a trojan horse bill for HC is a skunk in the road...too stupid to debate...
REPEAL the BIll nobody ever wanted
hadenufnow 2 years ago
You have that right! I've finally waded through the house version, and understand the senate version is similar...but twice the size.
The house version is simply a massive tax bill...as well as creating nearly four dozen new federal agencies, costing billions, which will regulate everything anyone in the industry does on a daily basis. It is an authoritarian nightmare of massive proportions...not at all like the Canadian system or the British system...which are simply inefficient.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
Kill the 3000 pg HC TAX & JAIL Trojan Horse Mandate Bill nobody wants..
Kill the bill..
Vote em out..
nobody wants it..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
What's being neglected here is the bottom line and that is, Canadians are far better cared for then Americans according to WHO statistics. I've got a feeling this guys on some HC insurance company teat!
omni321 2 years ago
According to WHO Stats? That ranking is highly distorted. Its a joke it. It takes things such as income inequality and well countries that have high income inequality have bad health care and then never proved the correlation between the two. h t t p : // bit . ly/ WyBIx
davidmesaaz 2 years ago 4
Why do tens of thousands of Canadians spend their own money to come to the US for care every year?
Why aren't US citizens going the other way? They are free to do so...
More importantly...why would anyone believe WHO "statistics" when that org has so many axes to grind?
professorofliberty 2 years ago
I did not say WHO, I said OECD, which are based on US stats bureau - Are you suggesting their data is wrong and infact the exact opposite? Again the people who do the research are not nobodies, but are in fact well educated and devote their life's to statistics. Sorry I take their word in that US has one of the lowest rates of Dr utilization as opposed to you whose theories cannot be validated, nor can your credentials.
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
tens of thousands? a highly disputed number my friend. Last time I checked at most 5500 Canadians went to the US in 2008 and this is for cosmetic procedures. ....again I selected the higher range. The number has deemed statistically insignficant
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
And sorry special interest groups? lol Again I ask are the OECD stats wrong ? and if so why?
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Your arguments not only contradict themselves...but they are incoherent at times, rambling, and you are claiming statements in my name which I did not make.
It's difficult to keep track of where you're even going most of the time. Yet you unquestioningly believe everything an obviously biased special interest group states because they also claim to be "academics"...that claim is the last refuge of liars and scoundrels these days...they sell their study "results" to the highest bidders.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
Hey not my stats that state that the US has some of the lowest Dr utilization rates in the OECD...May I remind you that the US stats dep. contributes and works with them. Sorry Bias and let me guess you have no agenda at all? Sorry anyone who claims they claim they are an academic has to be a liar? Sorry what was that you were saying about blind faith. - take your own advice
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Speaking about baseless - I asked you twice is the OECD stats wrong? and dodged this question twice. Clearly you are either not secure in your own beliefs or your argument the US has high Dr utilization rates is false and baseless. Again don't believe the OECD visit US stats bureau and CDC and compare your rates other nations Stats agencies
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
again on baseless arguments.....funny as you are the one on here who cannot cite any sources for your arguments whereas I can. Kind of ironic don't you think?
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Allow me to clarify...if you've been giving empirical evidence, I must have missed those posts. You keep going back to the OECD, which the Oxford Int'l Journal for Quality Health Care states of their study that it was "rudimentary" "out of OECD's area of expertise" "used information only from major hospital systems" and a couple of dozen other criticisms. Why don't you expand your horizons...do a bit of research. Learn to understand research and study before quoting it.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
Yeah then there is the WHO and you can also go directly the sources and see for yourself. Interesting how you choose not to. So again I ask please cite a source that states the US has some of the highest Dr utilization rates in the World.
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Wow I suggest you read your source before quoting it. First of all these are mainly opinion pieces from individuals - sorry this is your evidence that the US has high rates of Dr utilization? Furthermore you are citing a source that sings the praises of the WHO - and sorry I was not able to find that article in the Oxford journal
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Your arguments never seem to change...but they do go around in unending circles..perhaps dizziness is your issue.
I don't even know how to begin reasoning with you...I'm just glad you're not in one of my classes because trying to grade one of your papers would probably give me a migraine. They just don't make sense...much as I've tried to understand what your real point might or might not be.
I give up....rant on...insult me and others...and keep raving about the OECD and their god-like powers
professorofliberty 2 years ago
With such poor reading comprehension skills, you are a professor? - Sorry I call B.S.. OECD? Sorry I have cited others that include various stats organizations from the around the world, including the CDC. Sorry I just find it odd how you cite a source....sorry I meant an opinon piece by a single person, who posted on a site that uses the OECD stats and sings the praises of the W.H.O..
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Don't even bother arguing with "professor"ofliberty. I fed him fact after fact on here a while ago and he couldn't even come close to a rational argument. There is no way this guy is a professor unless it is some jerkwater community college. He has his mind made up and is pretty much trolling against socialism without understanding it and what Canada is really is. Just a tea partying free-tard. Hit view all comments and search for 'Edmontonguy' and take a look at our argument. It's a joke.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
I don't "troll" against socialism, or any form of statism, no matter the label.
Honestly; you're mind is set in concrete...you have no intention of reading the US bill...obviously...parrot the "official" line of the simple...and wouldn't know a rational argument if you tripped over it...your concept of a well formulated proof is to get angry, call others names, hide behind your ignorance and false sense of self importance, and plant your feet more firmly in fantasy land. You flunk.
professorofliberty 1 year ago
@professorofliberty you know what? I haven't read it. Your system was and is quite broken though and I have a hard time believing that sweeping reform - even if it isn't perfect - could possibly be worse than what you were living under before.
I don't get angry about US healthcare because, as a Canadian, it does not affect me. I believe you may be projecting somewhat if you think I'm angry. If I am rude, it is because I have little tolerance for the inflexibility and stupidity of the right.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
Good lord...you have shown yourself to be either an idiot...or that you've been living in a box for the last two hundred years. How can I even begin to chat logically with someone who believes such total and complete drivel.
The standard of living in the US lags the rest of the world? Free markets don't "work"? Who do you think pulled your sorry ass out of the stone age...please pull your head out of 100 year old Marxist rhetoric and check out reality...then again, maybe you're pulling my leg.
professorofliberty 1 year ago
@professorofliberty yes, it lags the rest of the world. You do know what standard of living refers to don't you? The Human Development Index (put our by the UN), which was designed to address the fact that prosperity is not only tied to economics, but also to things like education, knowledge and literacy, standard of living, life expectancy. Well, you're far from #1. In fact, there are a number of socialist countries ahead of you. Canada is #4. The US is #13. Evil socialist Norway is #1.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
@professorofliberty lol, wow...I knew you guys needed some work, but doing a little Googling, look what I found.
'The Economist's' ranking of the most livable cities in the world has Vancouver (Canadian) at number one and two other Canadian cities in the top 10. The first American city is Pittsburgh (no rank indicated). US life expectancy ranks 50th (50th!) as per the CIA World Fact Book (Canada is 8th). Infant mortality in the States, you are 33. I say again - you lag the rest of the world.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
@edmontonguy so you didn't actually watch this video - where did this man go to SAVE HIS LIFE???
USA. Many, many canadians DIE waiting for care - that is a fact. Rankings are so subjective as in who cares. I KNOW I get the best care in the world!!
Watch
/watch?v=LtQZ42iOsJk&feature=related
canadian doc "want to see doc - no problem - need MRI - No problem - just wait IN LINE FOR SIX MONTHS or 23 hours for hospital bed!!
There are "no other hospitals to send the patients to" so sad..
choclabs3 1 year ago
@professorofliberty oh, and just a question. You have said you're a professor of economics and your employers are The U of Puget Sound and the U of Washington but there are no names which appear on both faculty lists? Are you really a professor?
Oh, and some good news! I found something that the United States is the very best in the world. Your incarceration rate is #1! That's per capita which means you lock-up more of your citizens then Russia, China, and Iran. So much for liberty, huh?
edmontonguy 1 year ago
You're putting words in my mouth. I did undergrad and grad work at those schools, among others, but have never taught at either. I'm an adjunct prof now at 2 private colleges, was tenured at 2 state schools, and do guest lecturing around the country. Mainly teach Econ, Market Econ, Public Relations, Critical Thinking, and Media Relations.
Glad to see we're catching a good number of the criminals our open borders and disposable wealth attract...wish we could execute them and save a few bucks.
professorofliberty 1 year ago
@professorofliberty if you think my mind is set in concrete you are wrong. I am able to admit when I am wrong and when I formulate an opinion on a subject, I tend to look for the burden of proof. The US is consistently behind the rest of world when it comes to the rest of the developed world when it comes to standard of living...and often in the name of capitalism. You guys still use the imperial system for Christ's sakes. Public healthcare is best. As demonstrated by the developed world.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
You can keep dodging my request for proof the US has high rates of Dr. utilization and save what little dignity/ credibility you have left. You can also continue to dodge the question. Your choice
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
@SparwoodApple Get ready for a long wait if you are wait. The good 'professor' doesn't seem to respond with references or to much of anything that doesn't fit his personal ideologies. Look back about a month ago in the thread. He consistently looks, well, let's just say he doesn't look like much of a professor of anything but nonsense.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
Enjoy your new healthcare system :) Trust me, you'll learn to love it just like us up here in Canada. Maybe when you realize it isn't so bad you'll turn off Fox News and start thinking for yourself.
edmontonguy 1 year ago
Ouch; you still haven't read the thing. The US bill is a bureaucratic morass that doesn't begin to resemble Canada's system. Yours is about health care...this is not.
The main issue; it cannot be 100% implemented...possibly 10% will be, which is not unusual for US bills in that 300 plus every year are simply allowed to be put on the shelf...they exist but are never put into play.
The problem; full implementation would cost more than the taxable amount of US GDP, so it's literally impossible.
professorofliberty 1 year ago
11% doesn't have to be a large number. If one person loses his life because they cannot get the health care they need when they need it then thats one person too many and the system/powers that be are guilty of murder.You people need to wake up and not buy into the Governments propaganda machine.
johnphoenix20009 2 years ago
And why not be Anti Obama? The man is an admitted socialist. Thats one step away from Comunism. W fought the cold war to keep people like him out, now he and his kind has twisted the minds of so many people they can't see this socialist health care bill as the real threat to our way of life that it is. This country was made to be a Republic. Obama will choke any last vestage of the Republic from us. He is a traitior to this country and must be stoped. Impeach Obama Now! Stop Socialist Bill Now!
johnphoenix20009 2 years ago
One small flaw in all the logic here. President Obama, and the U.S. Congress, is not proposing a single payer plan. It would be nice if they did, but they are not.
But don't let facts get in the way of your delusions.
av8tor17b 2 years ago
President Obama and many of his advisers and liberal democrats are on record saying their real goal is a single payer system.
But don't let the REAL FACTS get in your way.
CarluvrSD 2 years ago
Professor:
Watch the YouTube video: "Canadian healthcare: Fact vs. fiction".
It as an accurate a testimony on how our system works than any I've seen yet. It exposes some of the propaganda you in the States have been subjected to for such a long time...when my friends and I see some of the commercials on CNN against public healthcare it really makes us laugh because some of the claims are so ridiculous. If I were a US citizen, I would be outraged at how misleading some of those commercials are
edmontonguy 2 years ago
Actually...I've looked at some of your posts...all emotion...all propaganda. Even down to labeling socialization of health care as being "modern." I've taught classes on propaganda in media and my friend you are a victim.
Point of fact: identical surveys in US and Canada...almost 3 times the percentage population in Canada is dissatisfied with your system as in the US. Canada's system is entirely dependent on US technology to function. Yes, I'm a profesor, of business and economics.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
Professor:
Shortly after Canada implemented its current health care system the Canadian legislature was forced regulate billing caps for doctors. Why? And what is the economic principle at work that necessitated this legislative action?
I'm not saying you're not a professor of economics, but I have good cause to question your expertise in this particular field of economics.This is a fundamental principle & germane to the current discussion. You should be able to answer forthwith.
Cheers!
supremeleader102 2 years ago
Greetings; you must be speaking of the "cap" on physician billings. It was a new term for what we call "wage and price controls" here in the states. The US tried the same thing in the '20s and we got the Great Depression as a reward.
You should note the caps have been constantly relaxed in Canada, and some provinces have now begun to lift them. All they did was encourage physicians to leave Canada or work less. Such controls always result in shortages. History proves it over and again.
professorofliberty 2 years ago 2
Professor: Is that your final answer?
There is a specific mechanism with it's principle aptly named. It's a very specific economic process... please do try again. I'd hate to give you an epic fail for getting a question wrong in your own field. In the name of fair play, I'm giving you another shot. Do you need a hint?
supremeleader102 2 years ago
Nope...it's the idea of wage and price control as used as part of a centrally controlled economy. In my 40 yrs at this crap, I've seen thousands of papers, books, articles etc all claiming to be "different" and usually named after the claimant, trying to beat through the publish or perish rules of academia. Few of them are new...just rehashes...and I cal them what they are. Billing caps were a simple, and failed, wage and price control scheme...dress it up all you will...that's all it was.
professorofliberty 2 years ago 2
Sorry wrong answer. Correct answer is "The Third-Party Buyer Effect" When health care became free to some Canadians under the new socialized medicine, doctors offices were swamped w/ more patients who wanted procedures for non-life threatening issues. Docs submitted inflated bills.The govt had to limit the practice by placing caps on what docs could charge for certain procedures. It's like when someone is asked if they want a sandwich, they say no but when they find out it's free, they ask for 2
supremeleader102 2 years ago
Jeeez...if you're going to test me, match the question to the answer. 3rd pty byer effect is the RESULT of price controls. When you subsidize a product demand goes up...duh!!!
Back in the '70s Canada capped annual billings for physician practices in an attempt to get them to reduce services and costs.
Your quote above sounds like it came from a reporter...and a very confused one at that. It makes little or no sense...as reporters generally don't when they try to get technical.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
actually there is little correlation between wages and number of Doctors. Ironically the US has one of the lowest Doctor to patient ratios in the industrialized. US Dr retention and growth is average in the best of times, but typically below average
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
That is due to technology and the ability of physicians to treat more patients more effectively here in the US. We also have some of the strictest standards for residency and licensing...which keeps the costs of becoming a physician high and creates barricades to entry.
Correlation between product and price (physicians and wages) is an economic law...but you have to look at all variables...not just the two. Taken alone...anytime you raise price...more of the product will appear on the market.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
Actually the entry requirements for physicians entering into the US health system is around average for the OECD. Infact the standards to become a Dr in Canada are higher than in the U.S.. Actually the number of patients treated per Dr is not that high
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
That's rather contradictory...
How can the US have a low ratio of physicians...and yet not treat an average or greater than average number of patients?
Your claims are beginning to conflict with basic principles of math...
And I'm not sure where you're getting info on standards...I used to be on a large city hospital board...and doctors from most every nation in the world applying there had to be re-schooled extensively before they could practice in the US.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
What happens when make assumptions......I won't finish the rest as you know where I am getting. US doctors do not treat as many patients as other OECD nations.
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
No...I still can't figure out where you're going...
Someone actually keep "stats" as to how many people a doctor sees every day? Do you mean each doctor treats a lesser number of patients? Or do you mean US citizens are less likely to go to a doctor as their health is better. Or do you mean the US population is lesser...therefore less people to treat?
I'm sorry...but nothing you say really makes a lot of sense...can't you clarify a bit?
professorofliberty 2 years ago
Yes there are stats on this through various bureaus such as the OECD. Perhaps it is less likely to go the Dr, but not because the US population is not healthier (no offense)
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
So US citizens...with the highest disposable incomes of any large industrial nation...decide not to go to the doctor when they wish (actual Psycographic stats show US citizens are more likely to go to a physician at the slightest hint of illness than almost any other nationality).
You say they are unhealthy...but refuse medical care. None of this makes sense...and flies in the face of logic.
When you say OECD...do you mean the 30 nations that are members of the OECD? (just curious).
professorofliberty 2 years ago
are you saying the OECD among others are wrong. TDr utilization is not too high in the US. These are people who devote their careers to these things. Yes Americans are amongst the most unhealthy people in the OECD
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
So you're claiming a loose organization of diplomats accurately tracks how many patients each doctor in America sees every day....
and you believe it? You have a lot to learn about the real world, special interest orgs in general, and what is and is not statistically possible to track...or even begin to track.
None of your posts reflect reality...you need to do real research and not just pick one special interest group and suck up everything they print.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
I notice a trend in your posts. Are you a real professor? Because you seem to be pretty content to make pretty brash assumptions about some of my points. You also seem happy to make statements about our system being a "dismal failure" but haven't backed it up with anything other than assumptions and biased opinions.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
Edmonton Guy,
I'm quite sure the professor is not a academic. All signs suggest he's a fraud. I've given him a question that any economics undergrad can answer. I chose my wording carefully; he should not be able to google my question. I'll email the principle and the academic website I produced the question from. I warned this guy not to screw with me. It's pretty much my hobby to debunk these creepy haters.
He's an ugly American... my apologies. He has an anti-Obama agenda.
Go Canada!!!
supremeleader102 2 years ago
Where do you get your figures about catastophic health insurance in the US? Are you sure they aren't Canadians living in the United States? That would amount to almost 10% of our population and I know absolutely no one who has purchased health insurance in the United States.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
And I really have to question your assertion that all your Canadian relatives and customers come to the US when they need serious medical attention. I don't know a single person that has gone to the US for treatment and I'm a Canadian, born and raised. In fact, most Canadians will not enter the United States without purchasing health insurance in Canada first. I wouldn't dream of it, even for a few hours.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Actually, it has been running nationally since 1968 and an interesting fact for you: in 1970, Canada and the United States were about equal in healthcare spending. Keep in mind that universal healthcare was only two years old in Canada. Now, Canada spends far, far less than the United States on a public system and our level of health - including life expectancy, infant mortality rates, healthy life expectancy - are far superior to the United States statistics.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
People love healthcare in Canada - though it is not without its problems. There will always be people who will find fault with it, and bad things do happen, but show me a huge organization that is perfect. Additionally, 1968 is not too long a time ago. Publicly funded health care in Canada is still in its youth and continues to evolve.
edmontonguy 2 years ago 2
THIRTY YEARS???? That's infancy? Good lord man...if you lived in the US you would be appalled at your own statement. If we did something that was such a dismal failure and took so long we would fire 'em and change companies...whoops...you can't do that in Canada can you?
professorofliberty 2 years ago
A failure? Like I just said, we pay less for healthcare and have better health than Americans.
And 30 years isn't very long when you consider the complexity of the healthcare system and the fact that it has been constantly evolving since its inception. There has been a move away from the medical model of healthcare and to establish more primary health services in line with the World Health Organization's new definition of health which incorporates a heavier emphasis on primary healthcare.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
And the vast, vast majority of Canadians would be appalled at your suggestion that we should 'fire 'em'. The majority Canadians love their healthcare and time and time again have proved that they will vote out any politician that tries to mess with healthcare.
In fact, the father of healthcare in Canada, Tommy Douglas - a social democrat, was recently chosen as the greatest Canadian in history. Obama will go down as one of the greatest American Presidents if he's successful.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
You missed my point...obviously not being a free market type guy. If an American started a business, or industry, and thirty years later was still trying to "get it right" they would have been put out of business about 29 years earlier because competitors would have done a better job.
My relatives and customers in Canada must be in the minority, because every one of them comes down here when they need serious medical attention. Maybe they have higher expectations...as I do.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
I got your point, but I don't think you are understanding the concept of public healthcare. It is a constantly evolving system which requires additional legislation from time to time to keep it heading in the right direction. If you apply that same logic to the US constitution, it is still trying to "get it right" even after 223 years. Hasn't there been numerous amendments in that time? Too bad you can't fire your constitution (tongue in cheek of course).
edmontonguy 2 years ago
And I should add:
I'm well aware that some Canadians do go to the US for healthcare sometimes. They are definitely in the minority though...I've read that the number is around 0.5% of Canadians have received healthcare in the US in the past year and only 0.11% sought out treatment in the US. That is around 36,000 people. And the Canadian government will reimburse them for a portion of their costs since they pay into the system. Americans have been known to come to Canada for healthcare too.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
36,000...that's more than I would have thought. After all, only a certain portion of your population has need of life-saving procedures, can't wait, and has the financial ability to travel and pay for such. I thought it would be far less. I do understand, however, that more than 3 million Canadians have purchased catastrophic health insurance in the US just in case. I wonder how many US citizens travel north or buy into Canadian health care just in case. Enjoy, keep it, but keep it to yourself.
professorofliberty 2 years ago
I said absolutely nothing about life saving procedures. That number includes things like elective procedures and things like MRIs...the wait lists can be a month or two for an MRI on someone who is not in desperate need. 0.11% of the population is not a large number no matter how ridiculously you try and spin it.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
The greed-heads are the ones who are trying to circumvent public healthcare in Canada and even in regions with a traditionally conservative government such as Alberta, the government has failed to topple universal healthcare due to the popularity of public healthcare with the citizens.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
There is always this 'socialist' talk attached to this issue. Is having a police force socialism? Is having a fire department socialism? Do you think it would benefit you if you were the only person on your block that could afford 'Police Insurance', while the rest of your neighbours wallowed in crime and wild west style retribution when they found themselves wronged by other citizens?
edmontonguy 2 years ago
Do you think that if you were the only one with 'Firefighter Insurance' on your block, an untended blaze next door couldn't spread to your house as well? I remember Obama quoting the saying that a rising tide raises all boats. I think he gets it.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
Obama is doing you people a huge favour by modernizing your health care system. America is the only developed nation without public healthcare!? It is almost unbelievable how far behind America is behind the rest of the developed world when it comes to the health of your citizens. Yet, you always brag that you're the wealthiest nation on Earth while the rest of the world realized long ago that true wealth isn't money; it is health.
edmontonguy 2 years ago
People are denied health care in America even if they have insurance. Some even die. That's just flat-out wrong! And to rub salt in it, Health insurance CEO Bill Mcguire takes home 1.2 billion last year. No typo there - that is "billion." Don't believe me? Google it.
DojoNDude 2 years ago
THE CANADIAN HEALTH CARE IS NOT CRUMBLING!!
it has been runnign nationwide since 1948
THis is a horrible story but let me just say that it is not the regular one you hear from Canadians.
I (as most canadians) would NEVER support an 2 tier health care system for the rich.
Canadian love there system.
for what i feel of is a fair account of the Canadian health system check the video: Canadian healthcare: Fact vs. fiction
dustinbia323 2 years ago 2
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edmontonguy 2 years ago
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edmontonguy 2 years ago
THE CANADIAN HEALTH CARE IS NOT CRUMBLING!!
it has been runnign nationwide since 1948
THis is a horrible story but let me just say that it is not the regular one you hear from Canadians.
I (as most canadians) would NEVER support an 2 tier health care system for the rich.
Canadian love there system.
dustinbia323 2 years ago
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JPK7777777 2 years ago
These vial ceos who make so much money, on human suffering,all for a profit, more than any one could ever need to live a nice life. Well you can only hope they have a great illness that is very long and drawn out and extreamly painfull. And that all their great insurance can do is ease their pain. this should be in their stars. lets hope
mthead65 2 years ago
yes and Perhaps it will be Obama who has to suffer for the Country he is destroying !
bo2403 2 years ago
Just saw the BEST youtube on this subject! Just search: Dos Equis Health Care Message. All the info is spot-on, and it's fun to watch.
DojoNDude 2 years ago
This guy should make a film about the little girl who didn't get her surgery in time IN THE USA!! She DIED!! Doesn't get more serious than that. He could interview her...Oh no, he couldn't, because she's DEAD! The insurance company wouldn't authorize the operation until they moved her to another hospital, so she DIED! Meanwhile, Health CEO Bill Mcguire made 1.2 billion last year. Wow! Private Health Care is just awesome!
DojoNDude 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey Obama Moron No one is refused health care you Lie Just like Obama does.
bo2403 2 years ago
U can still get it, u just have to pay. So its ok that the parents put a price tag on their kids life?? So they didnt "authorize" it, so they wont cover that. If it was my kid, no matter the cost, it would get the treatment. U just put a price on life. Basically thats what the government is doing with the health care.
adamd385 2 years ago
Get real. Hospital won't schedule the surgery unless they know they're getting paid. There's a new Harvard study on the number of deaths in America due to this sort of thing.
DojoNDude 2 years ago
Ummmm....If the healthcare in Canada and France and everywhere else is better than the US, THEN STY THERE! We have the BEST healthcare in the World which is why those who live in socialized medicine countries come HERE the good ol' USA when they need real help.
mcf714 2 years ago
Ummm... No they don't. I never have.
XFuncCaRteR 2 years ago
I live in Ontario, Canada. The province has taken great care of me. Sorry you dumb Americans, before you judge something you should know what you're judging.
(I also lived in the US for a couple years, but returned here because of the atrocious healthcare situation.)
XFuncCaRteR 2 years ago
XFuncCaRteR...Most of the anti socialism or against gov run health care videos are of people with serious illness. Have you ever had a serious illness and tried to go to your so called "great" gov run healthcare system? From your comment, I would guess you are young.
JackSchytt 2 years ago 2
Yes I have.
Canadian government has paid for:
Operation on my knees for a bone defect.
Care when I was in a head-on collision. Hospitals went out of their way on this - flights chartered to transfer me to new hospitals. Follow-up operations after that collision.
Treatment for ulcer - with diagnostic tests. Again, 15 years later a similar test.
Stress test for my cardiac capability.
My wife and I have had couple-counselling - to keep our marriage strong.
Countless doctors appointments.
XFuncCaRteR 2 years ago
This is a classic straw-man.
No one..Not The President...Not the Congress...NO ONE is proposing a Canadian style system for the US.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Oh yes they are. I attended an Obamacare given my a local Democrat authorized to give info. on the Presidents desired form of health care. She said that the President wanted a single payer health care system like Canada. I heard this straight from the source for Obamacare! [At Penrose Library in Colorado Springs in July 2009]
Writerdust 2 years ago 2
he said "like Canada"
Bullshit!
givethemahand 2 years ago
So all those videos of his and others wanting to do the public option are what.... not there? This week (5OCT09) want the single payer-gov't option i.e. Harry Reid and Pelosi. Obama will sign the bill as given to him. That means he wanted it all along.
Writerdust 2 years ago
.... where have you been? this was about 2 years ago and its still true today, just worse b/c obamas in office along with some of his buddies
mehavdatudont 2 years ago
Regarding the much discussed changes in health care in the USA, will somebody please explain which provisions of the US Constitution allow for the proposed government actions?
BernardoDeLaPaz 2 years ago
The problem with the whole nationalized healthcare thing is that the government should not be in the business of taking care or our every need. We are a free people, free to see to our own needs, as it should be. The government has not run anything without corruption and we have social security and medicare as examples of their inability to run anything efficiently. When they exempt themselves from the program it is a good indication something is wrong with it! Wake up people!
egnalag 2 years ago 3
Free to die as well...really THIS is ridiculous !!! I come from a country where we have a great FREE healthcare system (France)...of course it costs money...but how much do you value life ?...watch SICKO from Michael Moore: this is NO science-fiction !!! I feel you are being manipulated by your media (again!)...WAKE UP, support your president and make history !!!
TheDom2001 2 years ago
To TheDom2001
Just what are you saying? Are you denying the statements in this video? And citing Michael Moore? Please! That walking obese toad is no expert on health care. And, the media is so in love with Obama that any manipulation is going to be in favor of his agenda.
gdqqps 2 years ago 2
Nothing like that. I am just giving a testimony of what is happening in my country (France), where healh is a right for EVERYONE...It's not political...I just feel the American opinion is being manipulated by the media and pressure groups.I am just talking about a system that allows you to see any doctor (even a specialist) within a week,allows to get an operation, regardless of your income. As for Michael Moore, his testimony on France, andon the UK (I lived there for 5 years) are 100% true.
TheDom2001 2 years ago
Indeed there are many great things about French health care. The insurance industry is indeed manipulating the public in the lies they are spreading Canada, which is where I live. In France and in Canada - our governments do not employ teams that nit pick every application to see how they can deny you care. There is no such thing as pre-approval of treatment
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Obama Bin ladin and his so called health bill is stupid and if this bill passes it will kill thousands its first year. Heaven help us.
yashti1979 2 years ago
I had a seizure in Ontario. Went to ER. Had all tests that day (Sunday). They found two tumours (one larger than a golf ball). Saw head surgeon next day. Non cancerous. But he said the larger tumour must come out immediately. I said no until I could check him out and talk to family. After vetting I agreed to surgery and it was done at the end of week. Than five years of rehab to learn to talk, walk and function. The 2nd tumour we set a date and he operated (7 mons of rehab).
All covered on ins.
inwil 2 years ago
How old are you? Younger, I bet!!!
redondobeech 2 years ago
They will be the real "Angry Americans"
givethemahand 2 years ago
I have a great idea,,,,we could aways go to Mexico for our healthcare.
tailwheelflier 2 years ago
I would be very careful in taking a video like this seriously. It only gives one example and so it doesn't prove that the canadian system is falling apart. We would need statistics about wait times for multiple similar cases. They are only guessing about how long it would have taken to get treatment in Canada. And the video is obviously politically motivated, not an independent study. I'm not saying that the Canadian system is perfect but this video doesn't provide a fair analysis of it.
sko0001 2 years ago
sko001,
I'll give you some FACTS:
The average wait time for Canadians that need surgery is 4 1/2 months!
The average wait time for an MRI is more than 2 months!
w w w. cbc. ca/health/story/2007/10/15/fraser-report. html
angryamerican 2 years ago
Good thing no one is proposing a Canadian style system for the US.
As soon as the general population finds out that the opponents of health reform have falsely been scaring Americans ...telling them a Canadian style system was on the way...when nothing like Canadian health care is even being proposed......as soon as they see they are being manipulated by the insurance companies and for profit hospital chains...they are going to be pissed.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Obama has stated numerous times that his ultimate goal is a "Single-Payer Universal Health Care System".
Many of the Democrats have also stated that this Bill will "eventually" get them to a Single-Payer System.
youtube. com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
youtube. com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE
That's their eventual goal. Have you read the Bill?
angryamerican 2 years ago
angry- I have seen those links...you hear what you want to hear. He said he likes single payer, would like to do away with insurance tied to employment ( wouldn't we all?). This is not news. But he also said single payer isn't doable in America (said it many times)...he didn't ask for it ...and no one is proposing it. There is no system under consideration that is anything like the Canadian system. Saying that a Canadian style system is even on the table, is nothing but fear mongering.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Obama and other Democrats have said this Bill is the START they need.
They have stated that their actual goals are a "single-payer universal system", but they need this Bill to pass to get this transition started.
angryamerican 2 years ago 2
Investor's Business Daily reviewed H.R. 3200,and sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee when it stumbled upon "Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage," in the "Limitation on Enrollment" section on Page 16:
angryamerican 2 years ago
"Except as provided in this paragraph the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.
angryamerican 2 years ago
"So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers,"
This Bill is disengenuous
angryamerican 2 years ago 4
angry- Those who have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers,"
Bullshit!
Show me the text...page number please.
givethemahand 2 years ago
angryamerican 2 years ago 2
Angry- Page16 means there are no "go backs" to old style policies (the ones with exclusion for pre existing conditions) It goes on to clarify in pages 17-21. It clearly says that NEW polices that have no exclusion for pre existing conditions CAN be sold by private insurers. "guaranteed availability and renewability of health insurance coverage, shall apply to individuals and employers in individual and group insurance coverage, whether offered to individuals or employers"
See 17-21.
givethemahand 2 years ago
All insurance companies have to do,to stay in the game,is offer polices with no exclusion for preexisting conditions. They then offer these new polices through the "Insurance Exchange" an online database.. comparing benefits and costs. The "Exchange" is a great idea! It means the Ins. Co's must compete across state lines. Competition is good.
But anti reform folks are trying to kill it. Lying that there will be no new policies. The truth is there will be competition and they don't want that.
givethemahand 2 years ago
We actually agree on something. LOL! :)
I love the idea of an Insurance Exchange and allowing Insurance Companies to compete across state lines.
I have already stated this to my Representatives.
I don't trust Nancy Pelosi's House Bill. It's more than 1,000 pages of double talk.
I want a new stream lined Bill without a Public Option.
angryamerican 2 years ago 2
Investors business daily???????
They are the clowns that said: If Steven Hawking would have been treated by the British system...he wouldn't have been treated and" would be dead". They were so deep into their anti reform propaganda they failed to understand that Hawking is a British Citizen who attributes his survival to the British system and wrote an editorial saying IBD was full of shit. They didn't even know he was a Brit...just made stuff up. Investors Business daily?.. Please.
givethemahand 2 years ago
This IS the kind of system that Obama is proposing!!!! It's not free! It's controlled and people die waiting, rich or poor!!!
KisBananas 2 years ago
America is not adopting the same health care system as what Canada has.. The ignorant is becoming so concerned.
delepine 2 years ago
yes this the kind of system that obama is proposing you idiot!! it is socialized medicine that is controlled by the goverment which leaves us the people with no options!! rich or poor you moron!!
KisBananas 2 years ago
This is exactly what I'm talking about.. A bunch of ignorant people not having a clue what is being considered for the American people. Why don't try and get your facts right.
delepine 2 years ago
Boy libs R lesbians,
coy cigar Hessians!
FreedomHooter 2 years ago
Obama needs to be impeached, not only for not doing more research on his Insure everyone bill;; but for his gross mismangement of our finances. Now it is over 9 Trillion deficeit, not 7 as reported before. Just like he fired the CED of GM for mismanaging his company, Obama should be fired or impeached for his gross mismanagement of our country. He has no clue what his Czars are doing becuase most of them are shady. Impeach Obama. Lawyers out there, do it now...for OUR Country's sake.
Ilsabella3 2 years ago
Thats right my Americans if we bow down to Government this is what we should all expect. Obama and his monkeys are wanting to spoon feed you and take care of you and tell you everything is okay...they got this one. Don't let some suit tell you what to do, you tell them what to do, they want your life and your freedom. Don't give in, know the facts and stop this Obamanition from spreading,fight for our precious freedom. America was founded on free enterprise, don't let these pigs take it away!!
bggilly 2 years ago
Ridiculous! Absolutely ridiculous that the government can play with peoples lives like the McCreaths. Do not vote in the same Congressman and Senate if they allow this to pass in the United States of AMERICA.
SierraLH 2 years ago
I was going through some of these comments and noticed that someone from Canada said they received their treatment 'FREE". To try to make a legit point about ones care in Canada and then end by saying that it was 'FREE' undermined their entire argument.
theporch 2 years ago
I find it incredible that anyone from canada or the uk can say they received something 'FREE". That is amazingly naive.
theporch 2 years ago