Helikopter Quartett, by Karlheinz Stockhausen, in Rome

[DenisFerrari]

????

[MaestroTJS]

ROFLCOPTER quartet is definitely more accurate.

What a fuckin' douche this guy was, and by the end of his life, quite probably insane, which is not the surprising result of having the sounds of his compositions floating around in his head for six decades.

[DiabolicalGenius39]

This… This is very interesting music. Some might not agree with me, but I quite like it!

[Mrspraderadego]

IF YOU HEAR THIS KIND OF MUSIC for most of 5 minutes x day..... your brain will be damaged in a bad way!! (or maybe you listen to it because is already damaged, or because you frequent "false intellectual company of wastemoney people").. Compose it is simple, hear it is destructive for the message it transmit ! this style of music is the worst music entertainment !

[revions]

@Mrspraderadego

Study the score, listen to it again and recognize the polyfonic layers. Then you'll notice this isn't as simple as you think it is. Don't be afraid: it won't damage neither your ears, nor your brain.

At least if you have any! lol

[richtomes]

One of the helicopters is out of tune

[Mrspraderadego]

@richtomes HAHAHAHA HAH HH AH SUPER !! hahahah you made the best comment on it !!!  uahahahaha

[RazePT]

GO GO ROFLCOPTER

[SinTethNun]

@Nacktsucht Und andere sind nicht reif für Musik. "Was der Bauer nicht kennt, das isst er nicht." ... Bleib auf deinem Teller. Sein Rand wird immer eine Grenze für deinen Kopf darstellen und du wirst ihn nie überschreiten.

Und eine kleine Aufklärung, damit dein Köpfchen nicht kaputt geht: Das Ganze ist Metaphorik. Wir reden hier nicht vom Essen ;-)

[amioparere1]

non sento musica

[nickleus1977]

interesting =)

[richtomes]

there was a wrong note in heli 4 at 2000 feet - what a shame, it quite ruined this performance

[WinterFrank]

@richtomes Glad that someone else shares my opinion haha ;)

[andrewfox777]

What are the difference beetween "genius" and "totally crazy"?

[MusicOnTheFly]

@andrewfox777 Nothing :) Genius is crazy, but not stupid. The definition of crazy is defined by the non-crazy part of the society, so everything that isn't in its little world, makes it fear, oh-ah-uh... "I better don't get out of my little virtual prison of my head" ;)

[openmindset]

@andrewfox777

A genius can be totally crazy. A totally crazy cannot be a genius.

[tulpoeid]

He was a genius. In the beginning it sounded very strange but it re-creates music from zero, without any of the previous notions about it.

[saintvingt]

That's funny! This is a harmony of the noise. What it comes down to is, that's an association of the din.

[78obsession]

Mi vergogno di essere musicista....se 'sto genio è un rappresentante esimio della musica!!!

[theyoungmc]

Genio indiscusso, mi spiace solo non esserci potuto andare :(

[passerabianca]

Mah in confronto al mio Scoreggia Quartet quello dell'elicottero è un'opera da dilettante!

[78obsession]

Sei un grande!!!

[kluetenkloeter]

In one simple word: Bullshit.

[herma57]

MA CHE OOOOOOHHHHHHH, DOVE Mona

[fagiu]

Funny, crazy and yes, interesting, if you listen to the whole composition. I don't know why Uncle Stock wanted the musicians to scream numbers in german. That's the weirdest thing, imho

[cleomagoolando]

It's of great personal annoyance that nearly every quartet from the early twentieth century seems to get less attention than Stockhausen's helicopter gimmick. As a piece of quartet music, this work's actual notated material is thin and extremely lackluster. Beyond Shostakovich, people would be better off studying quartets by Bartok (6), Milhaud (18), Carter (5), Holmboe (over 20), Norgard (10), or even Peter Maxwell Davies, who recently composed 10 new 'Naxos' quartets on the label's commission.

[revions]

You should not forget: Feldman 2 stringquartets, Lachenmann 3 stringquartets, Berio 4, Ferneyhough 5 stringquartets, Rihm (more than?) 13 stringquartets, Nono 1 quartet.

Most of these works are more often performed than the Helicopter Quartet, so I don't think you should be worried when the KS Quartet gets some attention.

[cleomagoolando]

Stockhausen gets a lot of hype-based attention because, like Cage, he's gotten namedropped by loads of other famous "artsy" musicians like the John Lennon, Roger Waters, Miles Davis, etc.... who, despite their immense talents, mostly talked out of their asses and didn't really know shit about classical music. Stockhausen's a far more worthwhile composer than Cage, but like Cage, the amount of bullshit surrounding each composition is a little pretentious and, ultimately, not musically compelling

[richtomes]

Rubbish dressed up as art again - the late 20th century art revolution has a lot to answer for. Fortunately composers such as Shostakovich and Britten never subscribed to it.

[revions]

A lot of musicians and listeners are to lazy and don't want to work to understand contemporary musical expression and language. They live in their ivory tower and look down upon everything that seems like 'work'. 'Work' as opposed to 'real art'. So it is easier to write negative about it. From this lazy xenophobia they repeat prejudices and cliches.

Being an insensitive listener isn't the proper attitude to understand great art.

And having no respect for your collegues is even worse.

[richtomes]

Are the Emperors clothes not beautiful ? Of course to appreciate them is hard work, if you are mentally lazy, insensitive and disrespectful you will never be able to see them.

You're not lazy insensitive and disrespectful by any chance are you ? No of course not.

[revions]

I respect it when musicians do a great job

[richtomes]

The pilots and the helicopters are functioning perfectly. The musicians are functioning adequately - the composer - oh dear.

[revions]

I don't think that this work is KS' masterpiece. But we should judge a composer by his best compositions: Gruppen, Momente for instance.

If we'd value Mozart only by his divertimenti, we'd also wouldn't really recognize how brilliant he is.

[richtomes]

Obviously you don't know the pieces you are underestimating - K.287 for instance amongst many others.

[revions]

You are right. I don't know K 287. All I wanted to say is that the divertimenti are not all Mozarts best works.

But maybe we should think about judging Mozart's Poème Symphonique: that is: Ein musikalischer Spaß

Should we say that Mozart can't compose because he wrote Ein Spaß?

I guess not!

But

That is the kind of argument you use when you say that Ligeti lacks craftsmanship, because he composed this poème.

[richtomes]

When is a joke not a joke ? When it's a piece by Stockhausen.

[revions]

Well you think Ligeti is not a skilled composer because you know little about his work and take the poème as 'proof' for your uninformed opinion.

A person that is just as uninformed about Mozart as you are about KS and Ligeti, would be easily convinced that Mozart lacks all skills when they'd listen to Ein Spaß and don't understand the reason why it sounds like that.

That is your attitude: you only see the arguments that underline your biased opinion, but miss all the facts against it.

[richtomes]

A joke is a joke

[revions]

not every joke is funny, but some people still might laugh

and yes a masterpiece is a masterpiece

[revions]

The Arditti play 'adequately'? That is quite an understatement.

You are the mouse that is walking together on the bridge with an elephant and thinks that he is doing all the shaking. lol

[richtomes]

When a great ensemble play cheap music they are often tarnished by it. That's why Shostakovich advised the Borodin not to play Nono.

[revions]

Oh you really think that Shostakovich thinks that Nono composes 'cheap music'.

You have no respect for people that have another taste

[richtomes]

Shostakovich understood that the amazing skills and musical understanding of the Borodin Quartet  would be largely wasted playing Nono and therefore a waste of effort for the hard working members, who were his friends.

[revions]

Well, friendly advice has shown to be not always a good advice.

But the LaSalle quartet also did a great job.

Nono's quartet has established itself as the most important piece for string quartet from the seventies. (I think it is more important than Stockhausens, in case you might not know). Nowadays it is played by a lot of important and famous string quartets (as you sure know).

[richtomes]

I'm sure that Nono's quartet is the most important from the 70s. It's still crap however.

[revions]

It is as much crap as Mozarts Dissonance quartet.

[richtomes]

ROFL - you really are barking aren't you

[revions]

My students immediately recognize that the quartet isn't 'crap'. In my analysis classes most of them enjoy recognizing the connection with Beethovens (especcially the III movement from Op. 132 that you probably have played as well), the aesthetic influences from Schumann and Webern, the distorted quote from Ockegem or the way Nono applies Verdis Scala Enigmata and so on. They are young and still have an open mind and open ears

[richtomes]

The art of string quartet writing is rapidly being lost, along with so much else as a result of the late 20th century art revolution. Haydn wrote 68, Mozart 23, Beethoven 16. All fantastic. Nono is an example of just how poor the fare has become in recent years with his lonely Fragmente Stille, a single two movement rather dull effort. Ligeti did slightly better, but still nothing compared with heritage. At least we have the15 by Shostakovich to acquit ourselves against the richness of the past.

[revions]

Well, Feldman has 2 stringquartets, Lachenmann 3 stringquartets, Berio 4, Ferneyhough has 5 stringquartest, Rihm has composed 13 stringquartets (and still alive and kicking he'll probably compose more than 15 or maybe even 16) ;-)

So the string quartets can't complain.

Did you say that Nonos work has 2 movements?

[richtomes]

No one wants to play any of them however, or worse still listen to them.

[revions]

Not everyone can play them and not everybody can enjoy them. That is true. So what? Should we take your taste as what is enjoyable for the whole musical universe?

Since you don't respond to my question, I guess you don't know how many movements Fragmente has...

[richtomes]

Don't take my word for it - just see how many of the world's great ensembles want to spend a lot of time on these kinds of works, even if they only have one movement - which I must say is entirely the right number.

[revions]

Not every stringquartet can and wants to play Beethovens late string quartets. But just check out how many quartets already have played or even recorded Nonos masterpiece. And it isn't even 30 years old.

You'd be surprised.

[richtomes]

Lol - you're really barking mad if you seriously try to put Fragmente Stille up with the Beethoven quartets.

[revions]

lol yes, of course: everybody that doesn't have the same opinion as you or has some understanding of the familytree of classical music tradition is mad.

why do you always insult people with another opinion?

but of course: when people have some understanding of a new composition, you don't want to discus the music, but will only say they are mad.

it must be lonesome out there, on this island of yours where only a selected few from your 'great western tradition' have the same kind of knowledge.

[cleomagoolando]

These days musical tradition as a whole is in danger of going extinct because of the overwrought intellectual bullshit that composers like Cage and Stockhausen put forth, which somehow gets them slathered with adulation. I see the philosophical importance of some of the post-modern canon, but I think too much of it is destructive to genres that took hundreds of years to create. At least composers like Carter and Wuorinen still write good music, even while this garbage is getting pushed,

[richtomes]

@revions Connection between THIS and Beethoven ? If he were alive today he would dismiss this for the total rubbish it is and would not be able to believe what depths the musical world which he knew had descended to, that anyone should consider this worthy of the name art.

[revions]

@richtomes

You are confused, this refers to a discussion we had between the Nono-quartet and Beethoven.

At least the Helicopter-Quartet provoked an emotional response to you. It's time you study a score, listen to it again and recognize the polyfonic layers.

[MaestroTJS]

@revions HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, "the polyfonic [sic] layers."

Yeah, Palestrina, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, Shostakovich, et. al., have nothing on Stockhausen's mastery of "polyphony," if, of course, you mean layering pretentious, useless shit upon other layers of pretentious, useless shit. In that contest, he does win hands-down.

There's nothing quite like the polyphony of string quartet tremolos with helicopter blades whirring and the musicians reciting "eins!" "zwei?" "dreiiiii" "vierrrrr!"

[shobarsch]

@MaestroTJS ^ This.

[lioncomposerMat]

Ma che cosa è????

[laurion69]

Quanto carburante sprecato per le paranoie di uno pseudo-compositore senza talento.

[annedegro]

Stockhausen Verlag:

1992/93 HELIKOPTER-STREICHQUARTETT (3rd scene of WEDNESDAY from LIGHT) for string quartet / 4 helicopters with pilots and 4 sound technicians / 4 television transmitters, 4 x 3 sound transmitters / auditorium with 4 columns of televisions and 4 columns of loudspeakers / sound projectionist with mixing console / moderator (ad lib.) [ca. 31] (80 bound pages, score in colour, 64 colour photographs, cover in colour)

102.00 € / $147.00

[sasso11111]

Io c'ero!

[yaelbirger]

Toll Lucas!

Du siehst mit der Sonnenbrille wie ein Pop Star

aus. yael