The accoustic guitar at the beginning is very reminiscent of "Nature's Way" by Spirit. I'm told that sometimes Robin, Rick, Bun & Tom combine "The Flame" & "Nature's Way" together when they perform live. They didn't do this song when I saw them live (for free at a shopping plaza in Columbus, OH.) It was a promo for the Virgin Megastore.
heavydemon: they didn't write it but bought it, as so many bands do actually buy their hits, and not actually think them up: but Cheap Trick made this 3rd rate nothing a 1st rate rock anthem, don't you agree?
Without a doubt the best ballad ever. Whether you are heartbroken or not.....this is a song that will grab your heart. This extended version is nice and difficult to find. The part in particular that is longer on this video is 4:50-4:54.
I can remember being sad about this song after a breakup. How could you not be? Truly a gem of the 80s.
i want this played at my funeral to remind those close to me that hte flame for life and loved ones never dies, and its not ok to forget who you are and where you come from
yeah man, how the heck could someone give a thumbs down to this group and their song.. its a classic that will never be forgotten... lyrics and tune as well as the rock group... ROCK ON!!!!!
The ultimate love song of 1988. Takes me back to that year when I enlisted in the U.S. Navy. I was in the enlisted club at NTC San Diego and I was singing this song as it came on. Everyone joined in (male and female). Oh the memories.
In Chechnya, you learn there is no god. Do not tell me different, I have seen many die, for nothing but fake gods and idols. Children die in hostage kidnap, trains explode, and theaters stolen into. If god was real, this would not be. Good wishes an bountiful earnings.
Hahaha. Your the douche for believing me. How could you actually fall for that. What kind of real person speaks like the Slavs from GTA4 or Borat? Hahaha your an idiot.Surprised your a father, with that kind of intelligence.
Go choke on a throat full of semen, you blossomed ass faggot! Hahaha. Fuck off you god damn retard, your kids will probably die of rectal trauma after they get fisted by your neighbor.
@NoahCr :You seem to like the subject of rectums and semen.You are what i would call a BUTTHOLE SURFER! ..Better yet..Sphincter boy..hahahah..come on bitch!Thats all you got..Youre a lame ass cheese dick!
this bring me the good moments i use to be with the ones i love but now they are gone forever r.i.p brother dog,grandma,and a friend who die in a car crash i will never forget you
This song is over 20 years old, so I don't think that it refers to anything recent. Although it's been used in tributes to 9/11 for example, it doesn't have anything to do with any one specific event - just mourning loved ones in general.
erl49, no it's not the Yale phD student, Annie Le whom was slained a couple weeks ago. If you look at the date when this video was posted, it was posted on February 23, 2007 by "talesofthescars," and the people in this clip are Filipino like me. How do I know this? Check out their names on the Tags section. And Annie Le was Vietnamese...RIP. Just FYI.
esta cancion me recuerda cuando mi novia Estephanie se fue de este mundo y yo para evitar el dolor ingrese en la Fuerza aerea (USAF) donde hice mi servicio por todo centro y sur america y en peru cuando la tocaron esta cancion me puse triste pero me gusta
@ibanez777vbk actually he did got one pregnant 2 weeks after "we" decided to not have any more and i got fized then he left her for another one but i still love him i always will i have sinve the 7th grad and i am 31 now
@jamielynnster he sounds like a waste of time,theres plenty nice guy's around.you will find 1 and the other jurk will be a very distant memory trust me :)
No doubt one of the best ballards of the 80s. It is nice to see a posting of this song in its entirety instead of the radio version. Beautiful video as well. Thank you.
At 1min 15sec into this video, a picture is shown of a street in Bernkastle, Germany. I lived near that area when I was stationed at Spangdahlem Air Base. In any case, this song is one that I'll always associate with 1988 when I enlisted in the Air Force. Some songs just bring you back to a time and place in your life, this is one of those songs for me.
remember after the fire after all the rain i will be the flame kind of cheesy but love the song nonetheless was 6 when it came out lol knew the song then i doubt i understood it though
la de la academia porge salo ESTEBAN yo lorra condo salo ahhh esteban te amo ven a side in concerto in san diego =) esteban te amo y te exrano un monto
Old memories still linger around after a long time because time does not bury them and time does not heal and this goes for many situations. Time, or better saying, your mind just give memories a different "perfume", a different feel. I think it is all about getting used to suffering and wanting to suffer less. AND, HELL, IF YOU WERE IN LOVE WITH THAT GORGEOUS THING, WHO CAN BLAME YOU! If it is not the case, please forgive me, I cannot read the small captions.
si tienes razon, la usan en la acdemia, esta bn nice, es lo mejor, solo x eso m gusta la academia, x la cancion, jejejeje y ps adelant, nunca t rindas en lo k kieres en la vida. :-)
i made my life hell by my own hands....i cant live my life like before...till my last breath....this song means everything to me....i miss her...i'll luv her till my last breath...iam going crazy...wanna sleep like before...i sleep for only 4 hours frm 5 years...i wanna sleep more...i luv her...
This is one of my top 10 of a lifetime. It remainds me of high school, my puppy love, the first, the one, the last.
kacecile 3 months ago
i can't see the lyrics
paramore815 3 months ago
One of my all time favourites, each time I have to listen to it at least twice in a row.
denc17 4 months ago
I've got to get the proper five and a half minute version of this song... ; )
HitchHikersBlues 6 months ago
There's something really wrong with life, people and society today.
I don't need to explain too much about it...but people know it.
Keep great art and great music alive.
Peace & Love...
P.S.
Whoever edited this tune needs locking up...They did a terrible job.
What was wrong with the original 12'' version ?? what ?? what ??
HitchHikersBlues 6 months ago
Good, at least they had the full 5 and a half minute version of this song on here. All the others I found were only 4 and a half minutes.
Icummedonher2x 6 months ago 2
Cheap Trick, and their signature song. What an unforgettable ballad from Robin Zander and company.
joshuabrooks21 7 months ago
awesome new band youtube.com/watch?v=EKGcbr0lbCk
kennyschmidt7 8 months ago
Awesome!
Resistorism 9 months ago
yeah u were...
shadowlassie1 9 months ago
The accoustic guitar at the beginning is very reminiscent of "Nature's Way" by Spirit. I'm told that sometimes Robin, Rick, Bun & Tom combine "The Flame" & "Nature's Way" together when they perform live. They didn't do this song when I saw them live (for free at a shopping plaza in Columbus, OH.) It was a promo for the Virgin Megastore.
bucky468 11 months ago
The 80's is when life was LIFE......
HBK344356 11 months ago
Sentimentality is for wimpy jmen.
ApollonianKing 11 months ago
our present genre can go to hell, I love the old times 60s,70s,80s
Bonnman100 1 year ago 3
brings back memories when i was like 10 and 12 years old, sitting in my room or hanging out with friends.
sheilarking77 1 year ago
im 13 i prefer these songs than stupid crap music today
best song in the world
theskateboard1212 1 year ago
im 13 i prefer these songs than stupid crap music today
theskateboard1212 1 year ago
The 80's... such a wonderful decade in music
The flame of the 80's will NEVER die
indianwhite 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My name is Mike from LA Although there busizz4me.info
sadulkmali 1 year ago
remember after the fire ,after all the rain, i will be the flame
satanstian666 1 year ago
THIS WAS CHEAP TRICK???? My mind=BLOWN
paulid777 1 year ago
i dont like it
SuperMovieman88 1 year ago
What's this show about? Some poor lonely white dude lookin' for love across the seas by some bloodsudkin' wench? Pathetic.
EdMahoney19 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My name is Mike from LA Although there busizz4me.info
karoletoledo 1 year ago
timeless u will always be the one love forever ::::::::
triniisbad 1 year ago
Songs just great very awesome and cheap trick my favorite band
HUNKTHEMERCENARY 1 year ago
I fucked her.
Smackdaddy9 1 year ago
heavydemon: they didn't write it but bought it, as so many bands do actually buy their hits, and not actually think them up: but Cheap Trick made this 3rd rate nothing a 1st rate rock anthem, don't you agree?
crazyxmarine 1 year ago
While watching this i took out my lighter and shinned its flame :)
homlesshobo63 1 year ago
Comment removed
saaya7777 1 year ago
wow
god7772007 1 year ago
wow
god7772007 1 year ago
Without a doubt the best ballad ever. Whether you are heartbroken or not.....this is a song that will grab your heart. This extended version is nice and difficult to find. The part in particular that is longer on this video is 4:50-4:54.
I can remember being sad about this song after a breakup. How could you not be? Truly a gem of the 80s.
bigbirdvinny 1 year ago
i want this played at my funeral to remind those close to me that hte flame for life and loved ones never dies, and its not ok to forget who you are and where you come from
Brikrender 1 year ago
yeah man, how the heck could someone give a thumbs down to this group and their song.. its a classic that will never be forgotten... lyrics and tune as well as the rock group... ROCK ON!!!!!
jcal1028 1 year ago
The ultimate love song of 1988. Takes me back to that year when I enlisted in the U.S. Navy. I was in the enlisted club at NTC San Diego and I was singing this song as it came on. Everyone joined in (male and female). Oh the memories.
sch6921 1 year ago
Definitely one of my favorites.
My mom used to play this around the house all the time when I was growing up
:) Thanks for posting!
aidenandstorm 1 year ago
ohhh wow
MegaPetejordan 1 year ago
it's cool that i'm the one for many, but there's no one for me.
i didn't know cheap trick had a crush on an asian girl
AgoliantMystified 1 year ago
The best of "88!
italobambino43 1 year ago
Oh Maryie, this is our song. I'll never forget you doing that other chick. That was so hot.
Smackdaddy9 1 year ago
AH one of the best songs of the eighties......
lancemckellar 1 year ago
great power love song
MrJonk1969 1 year ago 2
Love you beb so much: This song is our cause we always will remember you Maryie & Lizandro..!
querubincita02 1 year ago
1 of the best songs i love....
leilalei6040 1 year ago
one of the best cheap trick songs!
tomfox5150 2 years ago 5
buried has one R
carrotman92 2 years ago 4
RRealy?
omenonemron 1 year ago
one of my faveraites
sheptingeys 2 years ago 15
This has been flagged as spam show
why people here is on fire. fuck suck and the cock is the issue,,,,,,,,jejeje
parker8326 2 years ago
jejeje
ritchielee666 2 years ago
why do u spoil the song by showing those mounstruosities???
raffofiction 2 years ago
you lost your Jess too jesus Christ what a trip!!!! 5 years for me, no joke, pure hell.
caestvs 2 years ago
jesus is fake!
yomomand 2 years ago
Tell him that not me.
caestvs 2 years ago
In Chechnya, you learn there is no god. Do not tell me different, I have seen many die, for nothing but fake gods and idols. Children die in hostage kidnap, trains explode, and theaters stolen into. If god was real, this would not be. Good wishes an bountiful earnings.
NoahCr 2 years ago
If there wasn't evil then there would be no good. Don;t tell me that you don't believe in him, tell him that, He still believes in you.
caestvs 2 years ago
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. Evil rules our world. Tell him that.
NoahCr 2 years ago
@NoahCr :You Serbs suck anyway..lol
psychodad2563 2 years ago
@Psychodad2563. You may be a dad. Father my shit spawn.
NoahCr 2 years ago
@NoahCr: LOL..You fucking Serb DOUCHEFAG! Eat my shit!..hahahaha..bitch!
psychodad2563 2 years ago
Hahaha. Your the douche for believing me. How could you actually fall for that. What kind of real person speaks like the Slavs from GTA4 or Borat? Hahaha your an idiot.Surprised your a father, with that kind of intelligence.
NoahCr 2 years ago
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@NoahCr :LoL who gives a fuck where youre from..youre still a DOUCHEFA.Serbs ,Croats you all smell alike..SHIT!..hahahahah
psychodad2563 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hahahaha. I'm from America you simple fuck! Go play with your fucking kids. Stupid twat.
NoahCr 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoahCr : I dont give a rats where youre from..Youre still a little CUNT!..hahaha..Bitch ass cock sucker!
psychodad2563 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Go choke on a throat full of semen, you blossomed ass faggot! Hahaha. Fuck off you god damn retard, your kids will probably die of rectal trauma after they get fisted by your neighbor.
NoahCr 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoahCr :You seem to like the subject of rectums and semen.You are what i would call a BUTTHOLE SURFER! ..Better yet..Sphincter boy..hahahah..come on bitch!Thats all you got..Youre a lame ass cheese dick!
psychodad2563 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fuckkkkeeerrrrrr!
NoahCr 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoahCr : why are you saying that god doesn't exist, I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just asking why you're insulting so many people...
Akariilako 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Started shit, I defended.
NoahCr 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoahCr : lol..lame ass BUTTHOLE SURFER!..better a fucker than a COCK SUCKKKEEERRR like you
psychodad2563 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
if he was real i would damn dumbass
yomomand 2 years ago
Comment removed
estrellita968 2 years ago
i wonder what the person who put this togethers story was
RapMusicSucks311 2 years ago
it's been 36 years and i miss you Jess and will always...
samson19541 2 years ago
this bring me the good moments i use to be with the ones i love but now they are gone forever r.i.p brother dog,grandma,and a friend who die in a car crash i will never forget you
GABU1245 2 years ago
....Wherever you go I'll be with you....I was with you and forever I'll be to your side...I miss you so much John
Anetheful 2 years ago
This song is over 20 years old, so I don't think that it refers to anything recent. Although it's been used in tributes to 9/11 for example, it doesn't have anything to do with any one specific event - just mourning loved ones in general.
RebelKnightCSA 2 years ago 4
erl49, no it's not the Yale phD student, Annie Le whom was slained a couple weeks ago. If you look at the date when this video was posted, it was posted on February 23, 2007 by "talesofthescars," and the people in this clip are Filipino like me. How do I know this? Check out their names on the Tags section. And Annie Le was Vietnamese...RIP. Just FYI.
ChicReal 2 years ago
the world needs power ballads such as this one:) also check out giant - ill see you in my dreams
vjohn84 2 years ago 2
Omg, isn't this the phD student at Yale who was killed on her wedding day last Sunday? Is this a tribute to her or are the similarities just uncanny?
erl49 2 years ago
iT WILL NOT BE THE RAPTURE
dwwjr1961 2 years ago
exelente, me encanta esta cancion que bueno son que grande cheap trick!!!!!
chatranfull 2 years ago
esta cancion me recuerda cuando mi novia Estephanie se fue de este mundo y yo para evitar el dolor ingrese en la Fuerza aerea (USAF) donde hice mi servicio por todo centro y sur america y en peru cuando la tocaron esta cancion me puse triste pero me gusta
elgatovolador71 2 years ago 3
best song in the world. 5 stars.
Phobos535 2 years ago 13
he sings im in to far way to deep.not im in the fire way to deep.numpty
ibanez777vbk 2 years ago
i will always love you mike you are my flame you always will be i just hope she knows how lucky she is to have you
jamielynnster 2 years ago 3
i am in a similar situation!! my thoughts are with you!! all my strength to you!!
mentamusician 2 years ago
what happened did he run off with another woman ????.if so well you want nothing to do with the cunt.
ibanez777vbk 2 years ago
@ibanez777vbk actually he did got one pregnant 2 weeks after "we" decided to not have any more and i got fized then he left her for another one but i still love him i always will i have sinve the 7th grad and i am 31 now
jamielynnster 3 months ago
@jamielynnster he sounds like a waste of time,theres plenty nice guy's around.you will find 1 and the other jurk will be a very distant memory trust me :)
ibanez777vbk 3 months ago
I know EXACTLY how you feel. In my own situation, that is. Sorry! :(
jenjenblast 2 years ago
No doubt one of the best ballards of the 80s. It is nice to see a posting of this song in its entirety instead of the radio version. Beautiful video as well. Thank you.
bigbirdvinny 2 years ago
These songs has a lot of emotions. I just love rock and power ballads
markoscepanovic88 2 years ago 2
Esta es para que te sientas mejor querida amiga Vanesa, desde Lima, recordando aquellos bellos momentos de nuestras vidas
adolfito2008 2 years ago
time cant burry whats deep in your heart.its always there :)
ibanez777vbk 2 years ago 4
what a perfect phrase
trottier2000 2 years ago 3
cheers :)
ibanez777vbk 2 years ago
this is my favorite ballad of all time and it is my 2nd favorite cheap trick song
AcdCcRem27 2 years ago
Thank u so much 4 posting this amazing song...
faeryjennie 2 years ago
Comment removed
aak8377 2 years ago
This song sure brings back memories from dating when I was 18-22. Such a sad song but beautifully written by a great band. Thank you for posting!
bigbirdvinny 2 years ago 7
those were such happy times right???
talesofthescars 2 years ago 3
Memories this brings back.... both good and bad, but thanks for sharing great song .
soundie28 2 years ago
seen them in ottawa canada a few years back man they were great
trottier2000 2 years ago
Comment removed
SIA8338 2 years ago
i fell in love to this song 19 years ago in wales ...UK.......if only the whole world could feel that way.......beutiful video ...many thanks.......
po58dvn 2 years ago 4
yah...
talesofthescars 2 years ago
Gran tema...
sl2
diosberserker666 3 years ago
the most beautiful lovesong forever...!
rsq63 3 years ago 2
la cancion es super me encanta
que padre que suban canciones oldis
jajajajajja
el1000chivas 3 years ago
este video es un anor la neta mne encanta me identifico muxo kon esta cancio wao es lo mas chido k puede existçir5
AtahPanda 3 years ago
Definitivamente esplendida cancion...
LindaKinglaptop 3 years ago
At 1min 15sec into this video, a picture is shown of a street in Bernkastle, Germany. I lived near that area when I was stationed at Spangdahlem Air Base. In any case, this song is one that I'll always associate with 1988 when I enlisted in the Air Force. Some songs just bring you back to a time and place in your life, this is one of those songs for me.
RedondoBeach11 3 years ago 7
that's so nice... im glad i was able to relieve one of your most precious memries...
how does it feel...?
talesofthescars 2 years ago
@RedondoBeach11 slow dancing with a great girl,,about the same time bro,,love n war,,this tune crosses all boundaries ,,,cheers from canada
daddz00IT 1 year ago
is the best love song
jaop67 3 years ago 2
one of the best...
i mean there are plenty of great luv songs but im confident.. this one is one of them...
lol
talesofthescars 2 years ago 5
@talesofthescars so true..
aidenandstorm 1 year ago
definetly the best song by cheap trick
mrpoohfacebutt 3 years ago 3
you know your music
trottier2000 2 years ago
remember after the fire after all the rain i will be the flame kind of cheesy but love the song nonetheless was 6 when it came out lol knew the song then i doubt i understood it though
heavenlydemonic23 3 years ago
uhm it kinda seem to appear that way...
hehehe,,,
talesofthescars 2 years ago
bueno la cosa q esta cansion esta de poca madre o no
123carlosgv 3 years ago
la de la academia porge salo ESTEBAN yo lorra condo salo ahhh esteban te amo ven a side in concerto in san diego =) esteban te amo y te exrano un monto
yvettcg 3 years ago
love always always remember love
cornforkpicker334 3 years ago 4
this was my uncles favirotw song
we played it at his funeral ='(
please respond
thecoolkid521 3 years ago 4
You have a wonderful song to remember him by. This song is great!!
Bossmanpc 3 years ago 4
huh? this is a love song i guess
ghettoballer247 3 years ago
one of the best and I will be there for you too!!
freejubilant 3 years ago 2
this is my favorite song
bossoneng 3 years ago 6
cool song
alexiscoolforever 3 years ago 4
Old memories still linger around after a long time because time does not bury them and time does not heal and this goes for many situations. Time, or better saying, your mind just give memories a different "perfume", a different feel. I think it is all about getting used to suffering and wanting to suffer less. AND, HELL, IF YOU WERE IN LOVE WITH THAT GORGEOUS THING, WHO CAN BLAME YOU! If it is not the case, please forgive me, I cannot read the small captions.
businesscoutinho 3 years ago
Hell, if there are unforgettable songs, this is definitely one of them!
businesscoutinho 3 years ago 3
este es el tema de la academia cuando expulsan a un alumno,, sta muy chido
netza608 3 years ago 3
si tienes razon, la usan en la acdemia, esta bn nice, es lo mejor, solo x eso m gusta la academia, x la cancion, jejejeje y ps adelant, nunca t rindas en lo k kieres en la vida. :-)
DIABLITO211190 3 years ago 3
claro que no, no tiene nada que ver lo que en realidad expresa esta canción con que los participantes no continúen su sueño
moicest 3 years ago
bueno es respetado tu punto de vista, pero esta cool la cancion
DIABLITO211190 3 years ago 2
Hey when you post on here make sure you can read the close captioning on the video.
picayunems 3 years ago
so what's the story behind this video??
rodneyrick 3 years ago
the two were friends....
but the guy fell...
the girl is away...
and so there goes...
talesofthescars 3 years ago
amazing
kickinthehead79 3 years ago
they always haunts
pbommes 3 years ago 3
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!
nemesisrogue 3 years ago 5
i like it, but did that girl die? My mom and me are clueless!
mooreek 3 years ago
greyd 6 kamo
bornradical 3 years ago
hanggang grade 9 sila tapos highschool, iba naman sa'tin.
isnaypme 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
so true. this song is too chedder chessy for me:/. i like rock bands, not ballad bands.
wdhsk4 3 years ago
LOVE IT.
countryboy1078 3 years ago 2
The lyrics are so amazing. The lyrics just leaves you breathless. Trully beautifull.
madsylver 3 years ago 5
reminds me of being in the 7th grade in school. years ago, brings back the good old days. i miss you kathy-always think of you.
drumsrule775 3 years ago 4
lov it!
ella11024 3 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
How ironic, Arnel Pineda (the lead singer of The Zoo cover band) will be touring with Heart and Cheap Trick as the lead singer of JOURNEY.
An amazing story one can only dream of.
born2disrupt 3 years ago
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Nice Video lolz, my names Hannah, im feelin n0rty and h0rn3y if any guyz wana chat im usually on
___ FriendlyFlirts..dot..COM ___ my username there is Hannah-jjacxhiq chat soon ;)
camm3r 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
flamejourney 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
flamejourney 3 years ago
best song de ellos
albertvolley 3 years ago 5
back in our younger days....
hi pam!!!
whenever you see this clip and well at least
hear this song...
just want to say that i miss you... yah i realy do!!!!
take care always!!!
talesofthescars 3 years ago
remind me of my only love jeannie
rtscarlett 3 years ago 6
as the years pass the pain subsides but the scars never do
pubsterguy 3 years ago 2
ever been kicked in the balls???wat do u mean by that? to whom u wrote that??..crazy!!!
aak601 3 years ago
le aria pedazo......el chiquitin
leonator1977 3 years ago
i made my life hell by my own hands....i cant live my life like before...till my last breath....this song means everything to me....i miss her...i'll luv her till my last breath...iam going crazy...wanna sleep like before...i sleep for only 4 hours frm 5 years...i wanna sleep more...i luv her...
aak601 3 years ago 2
of all the wounds that we receive in life regardless if by accident, sports or even war the hardest is the one recieved from love
pubsterguy 3 years ago
ever been kicked in the balls?
tankbukkake 3 years ago
yea your right it's upthere with some REAL PAIN i can't write anymore I'm laughing so hard at your reply
pubsterguy 3 years ago
yah i dont know!
talesofthescars 3 years ago
why?
tankbukkake 3 years ago 2
What a song, so nice, there best song...
one of the best ever songs.. :)
MALE26NZCH 3 years ago
no pasa nada tio
duryodhana77 3 years ago
ingrid, this song is for you... love you...thnx for just being there
torogidude7 3 years ago 2
Did this girl pass away?This is a beautiful song .. plz respond ,seeing those images to song makes me worry
M7E7T7A7L 3 years ago
i love it.. ty for the upload...
bossjonnel 3 years ago
no she did not!!!!
talesofthescars 3 years ago
omg i fell the same
obmoder1 3 years ago
i love this song.. this song is lovingly dedicated to you bibi... mmmuuuaaaaahhhhh....
bossjonnel 3 years ago
ganda kanta,pangit lang nung nasa video
pandiin2hilton 4 years ago
no comment!!!
talesofthescars 3 years ago
makes me cry....
stefallstar 4 years ago 4