to me its very clear who sounds better in this recording for feeling ,musicality , beauty of voice and interpretation but however there seems to be a crusade thats been going on for years for Richard Tucker that would even embarrass him if he were alive .just go to some of his arias and you will see that many of the same critics surpass Tucker beyond Caruso IN SOME ROLES but if we go to Caruso sites i never see it said that Tucker sang something better than CARUSO OR LIKE CARUSO. i dont wonder
just because lanza was MORE of a recording artist and didnt perform on stage, doesn't mean that he COULDN'T have. his basic technique was terrific or he couldn't have made the sounds he did or sing as well as he did. his voice was plenty big enough to carry easily.in this comparison i obviously go with Lanza because his production is still better to me than Tuckers who i find sounds ugly and scratchy and produced too low in the throat for my taste though he was a great singer i vote lanza.
Many don't remember this, but I do. Lanza sang Live on radio weekly for a half hour in about 1952. I believe CBS. His voicerarely faltered through the performances. I remember one time he was off-note and my mother said "He missed that one". Otherwise to my young ear he was perfect. She loved Danny Boy.
Wow, who can compare. I've never heard Lanza sing better. He sounds like a true artist & not a Hollywood "pop" tenor. RT, I heard him live, is superb. Lanza has the prettier gift & here, for once, used it well. Two of the greats.
Lanza again. While he did not have the technique of some of the others, he just has the greatest raw voice and its difficult to beat him, unless something doesn't suit him.
Early 50's RCA where much improved over 1947 Columbia recordings in flat poor sound. HI FIDELITY CAME OUT WITH VICTOR IN 1952. This is a not fair comparison at all, pick out Tucker in 1952 or 53 the same year as the Lanza recording. How about Tucker's 1953 faust aria? it has been re issued. I like Lanza's voice it was fantatsic but this is a poor comparison and you need singers of the close age and in the same period of recordings. say a 1940 Gigli and a 1948 Bjorling, would be not fair.
this was a 1947 recording as far as the Columbia recording in a poor mono no fidelity sound and yet that same year only weeks apart he sang wonderfully in a complete Boheme recording with sayo. badpdx go to german opera singer and listen to live tucker in good sound. He is nothing like the great lyric tenor schipa he is a spinto with 50% more power then schipa and a bigger voice also then mario had. You have never heard tucker really if you can say it was not exciting.
I have to take Lanza here, but I might take Tucker in the house. I always love how Tucker's voice contrasts with the baritone's during a full performance of an opera. Tucker doesn't sound like he's in good voice here either. As far as this video is concerned, its Lanza.
@badpdx Try Tucker's early Butterfly duet with anybody,His L'africana, Chenier, Dei Mie Bolenti Spiriti.Very beautiful.He was a sincere& dedicated artist even though he's NOTone of my favorites. But he does sound beautiful in the selections,I mentioned above.Tucker had great hi-notes & his voice was very even from top to bottom.I wasn't fortunate enough to see him in LIVE,but many on YouTube say the voice sounded better Live than in the studio. Enjoy
I heard Lanza in The King's Hall Belfast on Saturday March 29 1958.This was a totally unsuitable venue for a classical recital. It was a big ugly building mainly used for big boxing promotions,but it could hold 10,000.The primitive amplification proved faulty,so he had to sing unamplified. 51 years has dulled my memory,but I recall Herbert's Im falling in love with someone and La donna mobile. I would say Lyric Spinto. He carried the vast Arena easily, being in great voice on the night.
As for comments being attributed here to Norman Treigle, if indeed Lanza's voice sounded smaller to him at New Orleans than Tucker's, bear in mind that the occasion was Lanza's professional operatic debut & he would have been conscious of pacing himself & not overdoing the volume, & that the acoustics in that huge venue were poor. Lanza was a true lirico spinto (later bordering on a spinto): hardly a small voice. Jess Walters, the Sharpless to his Pinkerton, also praised Lanza's sheer squillo.
And yes I am irritated by those who insinuate that Lanza was a 'studio tenor.' No one who has heard his live recordings or who has done any serious unbiased investigating can deny that he had a phenomenal voice and could certainly perform live. The live recordings we do have are sadly never enough but they do prove that the studio recordings were entirely honest.
@ShawDAMAN Met a man who sang w/Lanza who confirmed that it was a good sized instrument & that it carried extremely well. All of his leading ladies who also sang in the opera stated that his instrument was of good size & certainly would have carried in the house. Yes, this is a non-issue. My meager offerings on YT wouldn't confirm that my voice would carry in the house but I sang for fun once at the SF Opera & the sound came back & hit me in the face. Yes it is a big enough pipe.
@ShawDAMAN Yes, people forget that Caruso was NOT the biggest voice of his day even at the MET. It WAS the most beautiful and carried like no other & he was the superior artist.
Excellent point. Lanza was likely aware that treating his operatic debut the same way he would a recital with the Bel Canto trio would be unwise, and probably took a conservative approach (for once).
Many thanks, ShawDAMAN, for this. I'm amazed, though, by the nonsense expressed by German Opera Singer regarding the size of Lanza's voice and its overall quality, which, he assures us, "sounded better on records." Rubbish! There is countless testimony available from leading musicians & singers who heard Lanza unmiked and in large, acoustically unforgiving concert venues that in person the voice was simply of phenomenal quality. Moreover, there was nothing small or merely "adequate" about it!
THanks for listening and for your comments. Actually GermanOperaSinger is a Lanza fan and quite an opera aficianado whos' opinion I respect very much. But, I agree with you that the vast majority of first hand accounts indicate that he had a voice of considerable size/volume. A gentleman on youtube (username "Ivanhoe2) heard him live in london and says the voice was warm and large.
Hi: While I don't doubt GermanOperaSinger's operatic credentials, I was irritated by his claim that Lanza sounds better on record than he did in person. I've yet to meet *anyone* who heard Lanza in concert who feels that the man's recordings ever captured the sheer brilliance of his voice. To quote Licia Albanese, with whom he recorded the Act III Otello duet: "He had everything that one needs: the voice, the temperament, perfect diction. He was fantastic. [Vocally] I rank him next to Caruso."
He had a liquid gold voice, man. And he attacks his high notes much the same way Lanza did, which I love- listen to his "Granada" and "Lensky's aria" on youtube or wherever, and youll see what I mean. Maybe not as exciting as Corelli or even Lanza, but what a gorgeous voice...
Yeah I agree, I wouldn't put him above Lanza in my top five, but he's there.
Incidentally, what do you think of Del Monaco in his prime? Checkout his rendition of the Andrea Chenier aria (Un di all'azzurro..) posted by belcantosociety. Gave me goosebumps. Not my favorite tenor because his technique didn't allow for much finesse or beauty, but very exciting-
people will kill me for this one, but I consider MDM the boring Corelli, very similar timbre, but Corelli was much more exciting and heroic, not that MDM wasn't.. MDM also had a darker more dramatic voice.. Corelli was more spinto... I'm rambling! :D
I also prefer Corelli generally, but that particular rendition got me interested in him again, he sang with more feeling than he sometimes did in addition to the brute force. :D They used the same technique I guess but Corelli put a unique spin on it with that cool diminuendo of his :)
Anyway, they don't make tenors like either one of them anymore. Be awesome to hear either one live. I wonder if anyone even teaches that Melocchi technique anymore. Sad that it tends to damage the voice I guess.
Yeah i've heard they have a short but glorious career. Not worth it, Tucker had perfect bel canto technique, just as much wonderful power and lasted till he died.
@Mooorhe Is not singing about vocals first? Your comment is not very clear.By the way Del Monaco was also a good sculpter and had a trick soprano voice. Im guessing you never heard MDM LIVE. If you had you also might have been one of his fanatics as well. ENJOY
@Mooorhe DelMonaco had excellent phrasing&diction&the ability to bring excitement to a role through his verismo singing & interpretations that launched his career in the spinto & dramatic roles.His voice was even from top to bottom& was truly free from mannerisms.His high notes were among the best in history& he had the ability to thrill the public more so in LIVEperformances than on records.Perhaps some of his many fanatics saw him live or watched his LIVE performances& became fanatics. Enjoy
I am a great admirer of the ultra-professional artist, Richard Tucker. I was not privileged to hear him live. However, I did hear Lanza live and unamplified twice. In the Royal Albert Hall, January 1958,,a chilly night and all wore thicker, sound absorbing clothing. His voice was rich and large. A week later he sang the same programme, same venue, much the same in quality. So just enjoy these two artists,,each had a magnificent vocal gift.
well....lanza takes him here...but then again there is the recording issue...lanza's voice sounds bigger here...but I don't think it really was...but I don't know haha
Yes. It's noteworthy how good his 3 opera recordngs were for his final movie. People thought he was declining sylistically from singing too much pop and show tunes but he really had the voice/technique in shape right near the end even. I agree, he could have been THE operatic tenor of his day had things turned out differently.
WELL I liked early Callas but Bush? no comment Harry Truman had a daughter who sang, heard her record, not all that much but she did write some good books people say- at least she tried at singing and Harry was very supportive, even threatened to punch out a critic who said she was mediocre. He said you better have beef steak for your nose and a steel jock strap below!
By 1957 he recorded in Stereo the album Mario was in stereo and a great one and also desert song and vagabond. king. Tucker/ bjorling also recorded at that time and it was better then 1947 as far as sound of course tucker and JB where older than in their mid 40's
the tucker recording is old and no fidelity, about as good as an early live one from then 40's When was that lanza recording made? Did it sound good to you? I think as german said you need to hear his 1961 pod cast of it live even in english from premiere opera pod cast to get a real picture of his sound.
I thought the recording was good. The Lanza recording was made in the early fifties, not much later than the Tucker one. I would like to hear the '61 Martha of Tucker, but I have heard live perf. recordings of Tucker and they are fantastic indeed. I certainly meant no injustice to him. :)
the voice was big enough but the stress of singing an entire role is great and he was already not well. His 1947 bowl is great perhaps you can compare Domingo or Wunderlich since they are more lyric then tucker--yes Domingo was not nearly as big a voice as tucker, I heard him often even his otello and by the way Shicoff also developed into a bigger voice then when he started, far larger then Bjorling or Bergonzi on stage and had more squillo, whoever you like. German's Comments are correct
I agree, the voice was big ENOUGH. That's all I really care about.
Obviously I could have found 2 tenors that compared more favorably with eachother in voice classification. That was not the point of this video; my point here was for the 2 greatest American operatic VOICES (as I see it) just to share the stage a bit- not comparing careers, not to pick a winner. I do plan on making more of these.
Thanks again for your interesting firsthand comments!
I also brought Henry Tucker my best friend to the Lanza house to meet Tony Cocozza, Mary had died already in 1970 and Tony was older and alone with Damon and Colleen that day in 1975, RT had just died a month before and Tony who was a Tucker fan praised Henry for having a great father. Henry was moved and yet a month or two later Tony came in from doing his yard work he loved so much and just suddenly died--heart attack he was 81. IMO you cannot compare them or older Caruso for voice
Mario had a lovely mother and we where very close and she told me in her home one day as (I lived their for a short time as many know) that many concert halls would put a microphone in a flower pot to help a singer with a small voice she did not nor did I ask if she new any but we heard peerce sing a concert with peters and I brought Mary back stage to meet Jan a good friend of mine and they had warm words and she told me he is 64 but sings very well with a rich tone,it was 1968
TREIGLE AND Kirsten told me at my radio station in the late 60's it was a mid size voice and peerce and tucker said the same and that he could sing "anywhere" he did not bother to and may have but did not and by then his health was bad NOBODY not even Melchior who had a huge dramatic Helden tenor bigger then Del Monaco or tucker can drown out or sing over a 260 orch thats silly lanza was human and not a tenor for loud shouting he sounded better anyhow when he sang piano as he was so lyric
Bjorling in the house was not as on record size wise and that goes for pav--tucker was much bigger also lanza sings this with much of his own lanza style, tucker sings it straight as he did early on all his studio recordings, lanza sings it the way he wanted to not that it's bad he had a great voice, tucker was a great artist not generally on studio records as live.
As far as a singer goes Tucker was a polished artist and had a trill and a cadenza live or on recording and sang 30 roles. Mario chose movies and concerts Gigli had a more lyric sweet voice then either OF THEM FOR A PRETTY SOUND, if you want pretty and Wunderlich in Granada even in German had a Lanza sound and also was beautiful as a lyric and an opera singer.
All very interesting.... yes it's true that Lanza chose movies and concerts in the relatively short career he had but at the time of his death he had agreed to sing Pagliacci in Rome and there was talk of a Tosca production as well.... so if he had lived a 'normal' life, I'm sure he would, COULD not have continued avoiding the opera stage, so we can't blame him for what his early death prevented.
Kirsten told me the same thing. They often put mics. in places like flower pots in concerts. Now Albert hall is a big place with lousy sound so who knows what they do or did but I heard Jussi and Peerce and Bergonzi, Di Stefano and many others Kraus,Pav. corelli, Shicoff etc. all live Tucker except for Giacomini who I heard here and Del Monaco who I heard sing Otello in 59 at la scala had as big or a bigger voice then any of them. Lanza lyric cannot be compared with tuckers spinto in prime
Lanza did not have a large voice compared to Tucker, this recording you use as a comparison is poor cause Tucker recorded it in 1947 when he was alyric spinto and not a full spinto yet he was 33 years old and it is in Mono sound, Lanza's was in hi fidelity and not originally on a 78 RPM recording. Alos his voice was not as large since I talked to Norman Tregel the bass who heard him in his home town new orleans sing butterfly and told me it was adequate not Tucker or corelli big.
The recording I used is poor? It sounds quite good to me. I wish people would read my comments and not take these too seriously. Really, no matter what recordings I used there would be people who weren't satisfied.
I am afraid you are greatly mistaken my friend. Anyone, who has done any serious research about the Lanza phenomenon knows that his voice, due in a large part to the thrilling nature of his overtones, was unable to be fully captured on ANY existing recording equipment at the time which in turn led many of his peers and even his critics to go on record and admit that after listening to him LIVE, that they were truly unprepared for the enormity of his God given voice. Sadly, you are quite wrong.
So he did not Was it a small voice then, do you think? Everybody said (except the upper-nosed gramophone critics but only after his death and a few others who were not even knowledgeable musical critics) even his opera colleagues and many of today (Pavarotti, Carreras, Domingo, etc.) that he had a big wonderful unmatched voice but you say he did not...
I went to your page and was surprised to see how good it is. Great tenors you have there, great videos you post.
Wonderful tenors Big, enormous voices no doubt It is almost impossible to say which is greater except for that little something extra, that delightful different supreme tone of voice which to this date no other tenor but Mario Lanza possessed As for Tucker's fantastic singing, wow what a voice! Great video Congratulations to you
One more small point-you say they can't be compared fairly. I beg to differ- as anyone reading my description would see, I'm not making these to pick a winner or to try to show up one or the other, but more as a tribute to both talents. I think it's perfectly fair to compare to great artists interpreting a piece of music in that way, and thankfully, most people seem to enjoy these. I hope you do too. :)
Lanza was a darker lyrical or lyrico spinto voice which was beautiful and sweet, and sounded much larger in the recordings than it was live, just like Bjorling although Lanza's voice was probably bigger, at least fuller. This is Tucker younger and more lyrico spinto, later became a full spinto with a sound of dramatic proportions, but could always sing sweetly and beautifully. Tucker was in my opinion the greatest American tenor without a doubt, this recording is great but doesn't do him justice
...Lanza recorded so well it is frightening, the voice live was just as beautiful but none of the volume and power it sounds like on recordings. Singers like him and Bjorling among others had a 'laser' like voice which could be picked up in its entirety on recordings, the voices of singers like Tucker and del Monaco, although focused and powerful, were wider and broader, like a cannon, the sound therefore could not be captured fully in the recordings...but there are certain live recordings...
...of Tucker where you can hear and tell that the voice was of thundering size. I have a live performance of Martha with Tucker singing the aria in English, it is better than this studio one but some of the beautiful legato is lost when singing in English. Sorry for the long comment, and great singers both of them, completely different voices so can't be compared fairly, both brought a wonderful contribution to the world of music and both rank among the greatest. Lanza was my 1st favorite singer
...it was he who tuned my ear for opera in the first place and I am indebted to him. He would not have had such an impact on society had he an operatic career. No, he was not happy even with his million dollar annual salary, and one of the rare things about Tucker which always envied his colleagues was that he was perfectly content, with a loving family and friends.
Bottom line: As I already said, Tucker probably had a bigger voice than Lanza and indeed most tenors. Lanza I think most would agree had a more beautiful voice and a somewhat better upper register, but really there's no point in arguing since as you said they both made great contributions.
.....He sang completely unamplified in the cavernous Royal albert hall repeatedly and was comfortably heard throughout. To my ears, he sounds just as big in the live recs(of good quality) as he does in studio, especially when he cranks up the volume/emotion. Actually, in some studio recs, I actually think he sounds smaller than he really was....
The rule for Tucker generally is, "no recording can really do him justice.." I think the same can be said for Lanza, as billthaxton pointed out.
Not trying to start an argument, hope you didnt' see it that way. When you state that 'He sang completely unamplified in the cavernous Royal albert hall repeatedly and was comfortably heard throughout. To my ears, he sounds just as big in the live recs(of good quality) as he does in studio' you must remember that certain singers are able to create this affect, like Bjorling, who sounded huge on live recordings but from firsthand accounts had a rather small voice.
I agree with you that essentially Lanza's voice was more beautiful and of a higher quality than Tucker's, but Tucker was a full spinto and sang more beautifully than any other spinto I've heard (except Caruso), which is difficult to accomplish for such a large voice. I wouldn't say 'no recording could do Lanza justice', I think the recordings did him PERFECT justice, shows exactly how high the quality of the voice was...there is nothing to complain about his voice. It was perfect. Period.
Tucker's on the other hand, was not in a lyrical sense the perfect sound but he made up for that with his fantastic trumpet like sound and shattering top notes - you say Lanza had a better top, yes in a lyrical sense it's true, Tucker however had one of the most powerful upper registers of any tenor who ever sang. So, my conclusion is that recordings don't do Tucker justice, but do Lanza perfect justice and you can hear that because Lanza obviously sounds better in the commercial recordings.
My father was somewhat of an audiophile, and when I play Lanza recordings on his vintage Spica studio quality speakers (best speakers I have heard to date) when Lanza hits high notes on a number of recordings there is noticeable distortion/fuzz. We can be grateful we have as good recordings as we do though.
And when I implied that no recording could REALLY do Lanza justice, I did not mean to say that they weren't great- they are some of the best operatic recordings ever made, IMO. As RCA producer CE Crumpacker recalled: "Without a doubt Lanza's voice was a difficult one to record. His dazzling vocal coloration, his extraordinary power and proliferation of tones severely taxed the narrow monaural technology of his time......"
Not argument, just discussion. ;) I understand that some singers like Bjorling could sound larger than they really were even in live recs. So really, what you are saying is we really can't always rely on recordings, even live ones, to judge the size of a singers voice....exactly! So we turn to first hand accounts, and the first hand accounts of Lanza are that he had quite ALOT of size/volume. I just think he had a larger voice than you seem to give him credit for.
GermanOS, I agree entirely with you 95% of the time, but I think you may be overanalyzing here a little bit. On one of my Lanza postings from 1947 you said "I wonder how loud he [Lanza] was." In other words, you don't know...it's hard to say just how loud he was; but here, you are making assertions regarding his volume/size and focus of his voice that frankly sound a bit dogmatic (although I'm sure you don't mean it that way.).....
Dear Shawdaman: Thanks for providing us with one of the nicest analogies I've ever experienced. This was done with sensitivity and intelligence. Although a Tucker fan, I seemed to have liked Lanza's version better, at least based on a studio recording. Both, as you've mentioned, were great singers. Let's just hope the haters don't comment with their typical vulgarity and nastiness and start mentioning Maria Callas and George Bush.
Thankyou! I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. Yes, let's hope there's no haters.... ;)
I too prefer Lanza's version, he has a more beautiful voice, Tucker probably had a bigger voice. Both great! It's nice that they were friends (or at least, friendly.) :)
I have only one question. How many opportunities were there to hear Lanza in an opera house?
drbarbarabaker 1 week ago
They are both good - but it is kiepura who really brings the poetry to the work
dziady1 1 month ago
Tucker
bodiloto 3 months ago
Dnload the audio from this tune at thetunify doht cohm.
MagnumReisenfeld786 1 year ago
to me its very clear who sounds better in this recording for feeling ,musicality , beauty of voice and interpretation but however there seems to be a crusade thats been going on for years for Richard Tucker that would even embarrass him if he were alive .just go to some of his arias and you will see that many of the same critics surpass Tucker beyond Caruso IN SOME ROLES but if we go to Caruso sites i never see it said that Tucker sang something better than CARUSO OR LIKE CARUSO. i dont wonder
sugarbist 1 year ago
just because lanza was MORE of a recording artist and didnt perform on stage, doesn't mean that he COULDN'T have. his basic technique was terrific or he couldn't have made the sounds he did or sing as well as he did. his voice was plenty big enough to carry easily.in this comparison i obviously go with Lanza because his production is still better to me than Tuckers who i find sounds ugly and scratchy and produced too low in the throat for my taste though he was a great singer i vote lanza.
bigus 1 year ago
lanza is a great!!!!
arayishvili 1 year ago
Many don't remember this, but I do. Lanza sang Live on radio weekly for a half hour in about 1952. I believe CBS. His voicerarely faltered through the performances. I remember one time he was off-note and my mother said "He missed that one". Otherwise to my young ear he was perfect. She loved Danny Boy.
mkl8000 1 year ago
Personne ne peut remplacer le timbre et l'émotion de LANZA
CREQUIE 2 years ago
Wow, who can compare. I've never heard Lanza sing better. He sounds like a true artist & not a Hollywood "pop" tenor. RT, I heard him live, is superb. Lanza has the prettier gift & here, for once, used it well. Two of the greats.
Lovelytenor1 2 years ago
Tucker per la voce e le sue interpretazioni era considerato uno dei piu grandi tenori americani.
Lanza era tenore di.............................. Hollywood.
bodiloto 2 years ago
Lanza again. While he did not have the technique of some of the others, he just has the greatest raw voice and its difficult to beat him, unless something doesn't suit him.
babystinky 2 years ago 4
lanza!!!
zagot27 2 years ago 2
Lanza!!!
VERSCHIN 2 years ago 2
Lanza on this one.
billy2rivers1 2 years ago 3
How the hell would tucker ever sound like Schipa? they are opposite totally in what way did they sound voice wise alike?
halavey 2 years ago
Early 50's RCA where much improved over 1947 Columbia recordings in flat poor sound. HI FIDELITY CAME OUT WITH VICTOR IN 1952. This is a not fair comparison at all, pick out Tucker in 1952 or 53 the same year as the Lanza recording. How about Tucker's 1953 faust aria? it has been re issued. I like Lanza's voice it was fantatsic but this is a poor comparison and you need singers of the close age and in the same period of recordings. say a 1940 Gigli and a 1948 Bjorling, would be not fair.
halavey 2 years ago
this was a 1947 recording as far as the Columbia recording in a poor mono no fidelity sound and yet that same year only weeks apart he sang wonderfully in a complete Boheme recording with sayo. badpdx go to german opera singer and listen to live tucker in good sound. He is nothing like the great lyric tenor schipa he is a spinto with 50% more power then schipa and a bigger voice also then mario had. You have never heard tucker really if you can say it was not exciting.
halavey 2 years ago
I have to take Lanza here, but I might take Tucker in the house. I always love how Tucker's voice contrasts with the baritone's during a full performance of an opera. Tucker doesn't sound like he's in good voice here either. As far as this video is concerned, its Lanza.
bluefish990 3 years ago 4
I respect Tucker and all, but I've never heard him in what I would consider good voice.
He sounds a bit like Tito Schipa. Excellent singer, very good technique. Not exciting voice.
badpdx 3 years ago
@badpdx Try Tucker's early Butterfly duet with anybody,His L'africana, Chenier, Dei Mie Bolenti Spiriti.Very beautiful.He was a sincere& dedicated artist even though he's NOTone of my favorites. But he does sound beautiful in the selections,I mentioned above.Tucker had great hi-notes & his voice was very even from top to bottom.I wasn't fortunate enough to see him in LIVE,but many on YouTube say the voice sounded better Live than in the studio. Enjoy
sugarbist 9 months ago
I heard Lanza in The King's Hall Belfast on Saturday March 29 1958.This was a totally unsuitable venue for a classical recital. It was a big ugly building mainly used for big boxing promotions,but it could hold 10,000.The primitive amplification proved faulty,so he had to sing unamplified. 51 years has dulled my memory,but I recall Herbert's Im falling in love with someone and La donna mobile. I would say Lyric Spinto. He carried the vast Arena easily, being in great voice on the night.
lirglan5 3 years ago 6
This is so beautiful and interesting.
cattleman6420012000 3 years ago
its all down to taste to me lazna wins hands down..
rouman7 3 years ago 6
Well you ain't got much taste.
AUDIOPHlLE 3 years ago
As for comments being attributed here to Norman Treigle, if indeed Lanza's voice sounded smaller to him at New Orleans than Tucker's, bear in mind that the occasion was Lanza's professional operatic debut & he would have been conscious of pacing himself & not overdoing the volume, & that the acoustics in that huge venue were poor. Lanza was a true lirico spinto (later bordering on a spinto): hardly a small voice. Jess Walters, the Sharpless to his Pinkerton, also praised Lanza's sheer squillo.
derekmcgovern 3 years ago
And yes I am irritated by those who insinuate that Lanza was a 'studio tenor.' No one who has heard his live recordings or who has done any serious unbiased investigating can deny that he had a phenomenal voice and could certainly perform live. The live recordings we do have are sadly never enough but they do prove that the studio recordings were entirely honest.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago 2
@ShawDAMAN Met a man who sang w/Lanza who confirmed that it was a good sized instrument & that it carried extremely well. All of his leading ladies who also sang in the opera stated that his instrument was of good size & certainly would have carried in the house. Yes, this is a non-issue. My meager offerings on YT wouldn't confirm that my voice would carry in the house but I sang for fun once at the SF Opera & the sound came back & hit me in the face. Yes it is a big enough pipe.
Lovelytenor1 1 year ago
@Lovelytenor1 Thanks for the good comment.
ShawDAMAN 1 year ago
@ShawDAMAN Yes, people forget that Caruso was NOT the biggest voice of his day even at the MET. It WAS the most beautiful and carried like no other & he was the superior artist.
Lovelytenor1 1 year ago
Excellent point. Lanza was likely aware that treating his operatic debut the same way he would a recital with the Bel Canto trio would be unwise, and probably took a conservative approach (for once).
badpdx 3 years ago
Many thanks, ShawDAMAN, for this. I'm amazed, though, by the nonsense expressed by German Opera Singer regarding the size of Lanza's voice and its overall quality, which, he assures us, "sounded better on records." Rubbish! There is countless testimony available from leading musicians & singers who heard Lanza unmiked and in large, acoustically unforgiving concert venues that in person the voice was simply of phenomenal quality. Moreover, there was nothing small or merely "adequate" about it!
derekmcgovern 3 years ago 3
THanks for listening and for your comments. Actually GermanOperaSinger is a Lanza fan and quite an opera aficianado whos' opinion I respect very much. But, I agree with you that the vast majority of first hand accounts indicate that he had a voice of considerable size/volume. A gentleman on youtube (username "Ivanhoe2) heard him live in london and says the voice was warm and large.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Hi: While I don't doubt GermanOperaSinger's operatic credentials, I was irritated by his claim that Lanza sounds better on record than he did in person. I've yet to meet *anyone* who heard Lanza in concert who feels that the man's recordings ever captured the sheer brilliance of his voice. To quote Licia Albanese, with whom he recorded the Act III Otello duet: "He had everything that one needs: the voice, the temperament, perfect diction. He was fantastic. [Vocally] I rank him next to Caruso."
derekmcgovern 3 years ago
favorited.
Yoni89 3 years ago
I'm honored. :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Two out of 4 of my favorite tenors singing in the same video, Hell yes it goes to favorite. :P
Yoni89 3 years ago
=)
OK, I've got Tucker, Lanza, Caruso- who's the fourth? :P
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Corelli. :)
Yoni89 3 years ago
Ah. Good choice. Blamed if my top 4 wouldn't be the same, but personally I'd have to have Wunderlich in there.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
I have a few records of Wunderlich, guess I should give him a listen?
Yoni89 3 years ago
"guess I should give him a listen?"
Understatement of the year- :D
He had a liquid gold voice, man. And he attacks his high notes much the same way Lanza did, which I love- listen to his "Granada" and "Lensky's aria" on youtube or wherever, and youll see what I mean. Maybe not as exciting as Corelli or even Lanza, but what a gorgeous voice...
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
listened to a few recordings, very nice voice.. Not going on my favorites, top 10 maybe. :P
Yoni89 3 years ago
What did you think of the 2 I mentioned? :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
I was impressed by Granada, you're 100% right, very similar on top to Lanza.
But Lanza has a warmer more exciting voice.. So.. Lanza! :D
Yoni89 3 years ago
Yeah I agree, I wouldn't put him above Lanza in my top five, but he's there.
Incidentally, what do you think of Del Monaco in his prime? Checkout his rendition of the Andrea Chenier aria (Un di all'azzurro..) posted by belcantosociety. Gave me goosebumps. Not my favorite tenor because his technique didn't allow for much finesse or beauty, but very exciting-
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
people will kill me for this one, but I consider MDM the boring Corelli, very similar timbre, but Corelli was much more exciting and heroic, not that MDM wasn't.. MDM also had a darker more dramatic voice.. Corelli was more spinto... I'm rambling! :D
Yoni89 3 years ago
I also prefer Corelli generally, but that particular rendition got me interested in him again, he sang with more feeling than he sometimes did in addition to the brute force. :D They used the same technique I guess but Corelli put a unique spin on it with that cool diminuendo of his :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
I think Corelli just had a better natural voice, great heroic quality. I think I'd enjoy Del Monaco more as a Baritone. =\
Yoni89 3 years ago
Anyway, they don't make tenors like either one of them anymore. Be awesome to hear either one live. I wonder if anyone even teaches that Melocchi technique anymore. Sad that it tends to damage the voice I guess.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Yeah i've heard they have a short but glorious career. Not worth it, Tucker had perfect bel canto technique, just as much wonderful power and lasted till he died.
Yoni89 3 years ago
True..
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Del Monaco didn't really have much going for him except an exceptional voice, I wonder why he has so many fanatics.
Mooorhe 3 years ago 3
@Mooorhe Is not singing about vocals first? Your comment is not very clear.By the way Del Monaco was also a good sculpter and had a trick soprano voice. Im guessing you never heard MDM LIVE. If you had you also might have been one of his fanatics as well. ENJOY
sugarbist 1 year ago
@Mooorhe DelMonaco had excellent phrasing&diction&the ability to bring excitement to a role through his verismo singing & interpretations that launched his career in the spinto & dramatic roles.His voice was even from top to bottom& was truly free from mannerisms.His high notes were among the best in history& he had the ability to thrill the public more so in LIVEperformances than on records.Perhaps some of his many fanatics saw him live or watched his LIVE performances& became fanatics. Enjoy
sugarbist 9 months ago
Put the best of them against Lanza, he'ss win every time hands down. His voice is animated like no other.
________________________
ShawDAMAN, no one touches Lanza, but now I think Gigli (whom Lanza admired) is better than Caruso.
It's like this:
1- Lanza
.
.
2- Gigli
3- Caruso
crapfacejoe 3 years ago
I am a great admirer of the ultra-professional artist, Richard Tucker. I was not privileged to hear him live. However, I did hear Lanza live and unamplified twice. In the Royal Albert Hall, January 1958,,a chilly night and all wore thicker, sound absorbing clothing. His voice was rich and large. A week later he sang the same programme, same venue, much the same in quality. So just enjoy these two artists,,each had a magnificent vocal gift.
Ivanhoe2 3 years ago 3
Hurrah for a balanced view! :D And thanks again for the first-hand account.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
again (I'm sorry) It's Lanza really although tucker is good
petrof4056 3 years ago
well....lanza takes him here...but then again there is the recording issue...lanza's voice sounds bigger here...but I don't think it really was...but I don't know haha
BJustinBrasfield 3 years ago
Comment removed
VinylToVideo 3 years ago
Yes. It's noteworthy how good his 3 opera recordngs were for his final movie. People thought he was declining sylistically from singing too much pop and show tunes but he really had the voice/technique in shape right near the end even. I agree, he could have been THE operatic tenor of his day had things turned out differently.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
well it is taking a good recording and a not so good columbia as far as the singing thats just opinion he did his best posting this I believe.
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
wanna know what's hilarious? I haven't even heard the vocals yet on the first M'appari and I know it's Lanza's version. LOL.
Yoni89 3 years ago
LOL I think both you and pearlmuth3 need to clarify...
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
I just clicked on the video and before I heard a voice, I knew Lanza's recording was first.
lol.
Yoni89 3 years ago
WELL I liked early Callas but Bush? no comment Harry Truman had a daughter who sang, heard her record, not all that much but she did write some good books people say- at least she tried at singing and Harry was very supportive, even threatened to punch out a critic who said she was mediocre. He said you better have beef steak for your nose and a steel jock strap below!
pearlmuth3 3 years ago 2
By 1957 he recorded in Stereo the album Mario was in stereo and a great one and also desert song and vagabond. king. Tucker/ bjorling also recorded at that time and it was better then 1947 as far as sound of course tucker and JB where older than in their mid 40's
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
the tucker recording is old and no fidelity, about as good as an early live one from then 40's When was that lanza recording made? Did it sound good to you? I think as german said you need to hear his 1961 pod cast of it live even in english from premiere opera pod cast to get a real picture of his sound.
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
I thought the recording was good. The Lanza recording was made in the early fifties, not much later than the Tucker one. I would like to hear the '61 Martha of Tucker, but I have heard live perf. recordings of Tucker and they are fantastic indeed. I certainly meant no injustice to him. :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
the voice was big enough but the stress of singing an entire role is great and he was already not well. His 1947 bowl is great perhaps you can compare Domingo or Wunderlich since they are more lyric then tucker--yes Domingo was not nearly as big a voice as tucker, I heard him often even his otello and by the way Shicoff also developed into a bigger voice then when he started, far larger then Bjorling or Bergonzi on stage and had more squillo, whoever you like. German's Comments are correct
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
I agree, the voice was big ENOUGH. That's all I really care about.
Obviously I could have found 2 tenors that compared more favorably with eachother in voice classification. That was not the point of this video; my point here was for the 2 greatest American operatic VOICES (as I see it) just to share the stage a bit- not comparing careers, not to pick a winner. I do plan on making more of these.
Thanks again for your interesting firsthand comments!
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
I also brought Henry Tucker my best friend to the Lanza house to meet Tony Cocozza, Mary had died already in 1970 and Tony was older and alone with Damon and Colleen that day in 1975, RT had just died a month before and Tony who was a Tucker fan praised Henry for having a great father. Henry was moved and yet a month or two later Tony came in from doing his yard work he loved so much and just suddenly died--heart attack he was 81. IMO you cannot compare them or older Caruso for voice
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
Mario had a lovely mother and we where very close and she told me in her home one day as (I lived their for a short time as many know) that many concert halls would put a microphone in a flower pot to help a singer with a small voice she did not nor did I ask if she new any but we heard peerce sing a concert with peters and I brought Mary back stage to meet Jan a good friend of mine and they had warm words and she told me he is 64 but sings very well with a rich tone,it was 1968
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
TREIGLE AND Kirsten told me at my radio station in the late 60's it was a mid size voice and peerce and tucker said the same and that he could sing "anywhere" he did not bother to and may have but did not and by then his health was bad NOBODY not even Melchior who had a huge dramatic Helden tenor bigger then Del Monaco or tucker can drown out or sing over a 260 orch thats silly lanza was human and not a tenor for loud shouting he sounded better anyhow when he sang piano as he was so lyric
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
The quality of lanza was no higher then tucker just different, more lyric
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
Bjorling in the house was not as on record size wise and that goes for pav--tucker was much bigger also lanza sings this with much of his own lanza style, tucker sings it straight as he did early on all his studio recordings, lanza sings it the way he wanted to not that it's bad he had a great voice, tucker was a great artist not generally on studio records as live.
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
As far as a singer goes Tucker was a polished artist and had a trill and a cadenza live or on recording and sang 30 roles. Mario chose movies and concerts Gigli had a more lyric sweet voice then either OF THEM FOR A PRETTY SOUND, if you want pretty and Wunderlich in Granada even in German had a Lanza sound and also was beautiful as a lyric and an opera singer.
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
All very interesting.... yes it's true that Lanza chose movies and concerts in the relatively short career he had but at the time of his death he had agreed to sing Pagliacci in Rome and there was talk of a Tosca production as well.... so if he had lived a 'normal' life, I'm sure he would, COULD not have continued avoiding the opera stage, so we can't blame him for what his early death prevented.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Kirsten told me the same thing. They often put mics. in places like flower pots in concerts. Now Albert hall is a big place with lousy sound so who knows what they do or did but I heard Jussi and Peerce and Bergonzi, Di Stefano and many others Kraus,Pav. corelli, Shicoff etc. all live Tucker except for Giacomini who I heard here and Del Monaco who I heard sing Otello in 59 at la scala had as big or a bigger voice then any of them. Lanza lyric cannot be compared with tuckers spinto in prime
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
Lanza did not have a large voice compared to Tucker, this recording you use as a comparison is poor cause Tucker recorded it in 1947 when he was alyric spinto and not a full spinto yet he was 33 years old and it is in Mono sound, Lanza's was in hi fidelity and not originally on a 78 RPM recording. Alos his voice was not as large since I talked to Norman Tregel the bass who heard him in his home town new orleans sing butterfly and told me it was adequate not Tucker or corelli big.
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
The recording I used is poor? It sounds quite good to me. I wish people would read my comments and not take these too seriously. Really, no matter what recordings I used there would be people who weren't satisfied.
No offense to you of course. :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
I am afraid you are greatly mistaken my friend. Anyone, who has done any serious research about the Lanza phenomenon knows that his voice, due in a large part to the thrilling nature of his overtones, was unable to be fully captured on ANY existing recording equipment at the time which in turn led many of his peers and even his critics to go on record and admit that after listening to him LIVE, that they were truly unprepared for the enormity of his God given voice. Sadly, you are quite wrong.
billthaxton 3 years ago 2
So he did not Was it a small voice then, do you think? Everybody said (except the upper-nosed gramophone critics but only after his death and a few others who were not even knowledgeable musical critics) even his opera colleagues and many of today (Pavarotti, Carreras, Domingo, etc.) that he had a big wonderful unmatched voice but you say he did not...
I went to your page and was surprised to see how good it is. Great tenors you have there, great videos you post.
pianist527 3 years ago
Wonderful tenors Big, enormous voices no doubt It is almost impossible to say which is greater except for that little something extra, that delightful different supreme tone of voice which to this date no other tenor but Mario Lanza possessed As for Tucker's fantastic singing, wow what a voice! Great video Congratulations to you
pianist527 3 years ago
Lanza had no big enormous voice, read my comment.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
One more small point-you say they can't be compared fairly. I beg to differ- as anyone reading my description would see, I'm not making these to pick a winner or to try to show up one or the other, but more as a tribute to both talents. I think it's perfectly fair to compare to great artists interpreting a piece of music in that way, and thankfully, most people seem to enjoy these. I hope you do too. :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
THankyou I'm glad you enjoyed.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Lanza was a darker lyrical or lyrico spinto voice which was beautiful and sweet, and sounded much larger in the recordings than it was live, just like Bjorling although Lanza's voice was probably bigger, at least fuller. This is Tucker younger and more lyrico spinto, later became a full spinto with a sound of dramatic proportions, but could always sing sweetly and beautifully. Tucker was in my opinion the greatest American tenor without a doubt, this recording is great but doesn't do him justice
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
...Lanza recorded so well it is frightening, the voice live was just as beautiful but none of the volume and power it sounds like on recordings. Singers like him and Bjorling among others had a 'laser' like voice which could be picked up in its entirety on recordings, the voices of singers like Tucker and del Monaco, although focused and powerful, were wider and broader, like a cannon, the sound therefore could not be captured fully in the recordings...but there are certain live recordings...
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
...of Tucker where you can hear and tell that the voice was of thundering size. I have a live performance of Martha with Tucker singing the aria in English, it is better than this studio one but some of the beautiful legato is lost when singing in English. Sorry for the long comment, and great singers both of them, completely different voices so can't be compared fairly, both brought a wonderful contribution to the world of music and both rank among the greatest. Lanza was my 1st favorite singer
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
...it was he who tuned my ear for opera in the first place and I am indebted to him. He would not have had such an impact on society had he an operatic career. No, he was not happy even with his million dollar annual salary, and one of the rare things about Tucker which always envied his colleagues was that he was perfectly content, with a loving family and friends.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
Bottom line: As I already said, Tucker probably had a bigger voice than Lanza and indeed most tenors. Lanza I think most would agree had a more beautiful voice and a somewhat better upper register, but really there's no point in arguing since as you said they both made great contributions.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
.....He sang completely unamplified in the cavernous Royal albert hall repeatedly and was comfortably heard throughout. To my ears, he sounds just as big in the live recs(of good quality) as he does in studio, especially when he cranks up the volume/emotion. Actually, in some studio recs, I actually think he sounds smaller than he really was....
The rule for Tucker generally is, "no recording can really do him justice.." I think the same can be said for Lanza, as billthaxton pointed out.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Not trying to start an argument, hope you didnt' see it that way. When you state that 'He sang completely unamplified in the cavernous Royal albert hall repeatedly and was comfortably heard throughout. To my ears, he sounds just as big in the live recs(of good quality) as he does in studio' you must remember that certain singers are able to create this affect, like Bjorling, who sounded huge on live recordings but from firsthand accounts had a rather small voice.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
I agree with you that essentially Lanza's voice was more beautiful and of a higher quality than Tucker's, but Tucker was a full spinto and sang more beautifully than any other spinto I've heard (except Caruso), which is difficult to accomplish for such a large voice. I wouldn't say 'no recording could do Lanza justice', I think the recordings did him PERFECT justice, shows exactly how high the quality of the voice was...there is nothing to complain about his voice. It was perfect. Period.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
Tucker's on the other hand, was not in a lyrical sense the perfect sound but he made up for that with his fantastic trumpet like sound and shattering top notes - you say Lanza had a better top, yes in a lyrical sense it's true, Tucker however had one of the most powerful upper registers of any tenor who ever sang. So, my conclusion is that recordings don't do Tucker justice, but do Lanza perfect justice and you can hear that because Lanza obviously sounds better in the commercial recordings.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
And by the way, THANK YOU for this wonderful recording of both singers, whom I both love for their unique characteristics and (even mannerisms)
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago 2
YOuu're welcome :P
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
My father was somewhat of an audiophile, and when I play Lanza recordings on his vintage Spica studio quality speakers (best speakers I have heard to date) when Lanza hits high notes on a number of recordings there is noticeable distortion/fuzz. We can be grateful we have as good recordings as we do though.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
And when I implied that no recording could REALLY do Lanza justice, I did not mean to say that they weren't great- they are some of the best operatic recordings ever made, IMO. As RCA producer CE Crumpacker recalled: "Without a doubt Lanza's voice was a difficult one to record. His dazzling vocal coloration, his extraordinary power and proliferation of tones severely taxed the narrow monaural technology of his time......"
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Not argument, just discussion. ;) I understand that some singers like Bjorling could sound larger than they really were even in live recs. So really, what you are saying is we really can't always rely on recordings, even live ones, to judge the size of a singers voice....exactly! So we turn to first hand accounts, and the first hand accounts of Lanza are that he had quite ALOT of size/volume. I just think he had a larger voice than you seem to give him credit for.
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
GermanOS, I agree entirely with you 95% of the time, but I think you may be overanalyzing here a little bit. On one of my Lanza postings from 1947 you said "I wonder how loud he [Lanza] was." In other words, you don't know...it's hard to say just how loud he was; but here, you are making assertions regarding his volume/size and focus of his voice that frankly sound a bit dogmatic (although I'm sure you don't mean it that way.).....
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago
Dear Shawdaman: Thanks for providing us with one of the nicest analogies I've ever experienced. This was done with sensitivity and intelligence. Although a Tucker fan, I seemed to have liked Lanza's version better, at least based on a studio recording. Both, as you've mentioned, were great singers. Let's just hope the haters don't comment with their typical vulgarity and nastiness and start mentioning Maria Callas and George Bush.
sgnmath1234 3 years ago
Thankyou! I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. Yes, let's hope there's no haters.... ;)
I too prefer Lanza's version, he has a more beautiful voice, Tucker probably had a bigger voice. Both great! It's nice that they were friends (or at least, friendly.) :)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago