DEBATE: Proverbs 16:4, Reprobation: Why Did God Make the Wicked for the Day of Evil?

[CAnswersTV]

@researchthat You've "selective verses amnesia" syndrome ("I'll pick the verses I want to believe in & forget the rest that I don't believe in"). You don't seem to be aware of a vast number of Bible verses that would say that you're totally wrong. Did Paul say, "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you" (1 Cor 11:19)? Did Paul & Apollos ever debate theology with others (Acts 17:17, 18:28, 19:8)? What does Jude 3-4 or Phil 1:7, 17 say?

[vennchris]

Try not to take the scriptures out of context. God does things for certain reasons, where most times, we may not always understand everything. The Book of Job states, "Who has ever understood the entire scope of God?"

God works in ways that we may not always understand.

[CAnswersTV]

@vennchris That's certainly correct but we can certainly understand from the scriptures that it was God Who saved us, not us! God the Father predestinated His elect to be saved (Ephesians1:4-11) BEFORE the world was even created (by His will not ours), Jesus came to die for the ones the Father predestinated (John 6) & Jesus prayed NOT for the world but His elect (John 17:9), & the Holy Spirit came & sealed the truly redeemed who had been predestinated by the Father & paid for by the Son (Jn 14).

[vennchris]

@CAnswersTV All I am saying is that anyone can fall. God has reminded us so many times in scripture that we are to stay on track with God. "Behold, I set before you life and death, the blessings and the curses. Therefore, choose life, so that you may live, and not die."

Why would God continuously remind us to stay on track with Him, if it wasn't possible for God's elect to fail? Because it is possible. Jesus clearly stated, "They will even try to decieve God's elect, IF POSSIBLE."

[CAnswersTV]

@vennchris You're totally incorrect concerning God's elect being able to lose their salvation (an old Arminian & cultic heresy). Even the verse you quote refutes your position. The book of Hebrews clearly talks about apostates (those who fall away) & Hebrews 6 is a classic example. Hebrews 6:9 shows the clear distinction between the fake Christians & the real ones (real ones actually have "salvation"). 1 John 2:19 says the apostates were never real Christians to begin with (not born again).

[vennchris]

@CAnswersTV Believe what you want. God will guide me. I have been conflicted in my faith. God is my witness. And you are to blame. Watch your words very carefully, for the LORD is listening and watching every one of them.

I've said what God has told me to say. This conversation is done.

[CAnswersTV]

@vennchris You're CONFLICTED in your faith because your nonBiblical heresies concerning who saves who (do men save themselves because God gives them a CHANCE or does God sovereignly save men because they CANNOT do it themselves - Mark 10:27?) are easily at odds to what the Bible clearly teaches. It's not my fault my friend but your own confused understanding of Biblical salvation that gets the blame. You're also confused by your own delusional claims that "God told you" when the Bible disagrees.

[vennchris]

@CAnswersTV People who are saved can fall and people who are not saved can be saved. Trust me, I've seen it happen before. Just because people are changing by their own decisions does not mean that we aren't pre-destined. God's people are clearly pre-destined.

Before we make final judgment, we should ask ourselves, "Who are the real people of God?" And by the end, the real people of God are the real "pre-destined" of God.

And Jesus has already fulfilled all things when He died and rose.

[CAnswersTV]

@fre4409 Thank you! Likewise, may the Lord bless you & yours.

[polopowers1]

Jesus died unto God for His satisfaction,Christ cannot become unsatisfactory.Which is what those who believe in Christ dying are suggesting.Christ died to satisfy God as a propitiation.Jesus being God only died as a Man,God cannot die and be seperate in any of His virtues.Jesus was always one in Virtue of Spirit with the God Head.

[CAnswersTV]

@polopowers1 Well said!

[ChristianTruthHammer]

This is some of the worst "logic" (Col. 2:8) I've ever seen. Please understand this, because this debate makes so much more sense when you do: It's not WHO Jesus died for, but WHAT Jesus died for. He died to pay for every pardonable sin, and it just so happens that everyone who ever lived has committed sins he paid for, so in effect he died for them, but rejection of the gospel is unforgivable and not paid for, and that's what sends people to hell. Jesus did not fail, men do (John 3:18).

[CAnswersTV]

Thanks ChristianTruthHammer for your "logical" comment. Let's see, "logic", from the Greek λογικός (logikos) is the study of reasoning. "Logic" is used in most intellectual activity, but is studied primarily in the disciplines of philosophy & mathematics. Here you have digressed from WHO to WHAT apparently because you do not want Jesus to die for PARTICULAR people but rather for ANYONE based on their WORKS of avoiding unpardonable sins! Ever heard of Ephesians 2:8-10??!

[ChristianTruthHammer]

No, I have pointed out it is not WHO but WHAT because that is what the Bible says (1 John 2:2). It says he died for sins. I didn't say salvation isn't by grace, either. Please try to grasp this. Rejection of the gospel is the unpardonable sin. The "work" (not workS) of God is to believe on him whom he hath sent (John 6:29). That's the one sin you have to get out of your life to be saved, and it happens by default when you accept the gospel. To call that works is to miss the point of what I said.

[CAnswersTV]

ChristianTruthHammer, you're the one, not the Calvinist, who commits the logical fallacy of begging the question by claiming 1 John 2:2 means what you claim then concluding with a non sequitur digression ( Latin digressus: to turn aside especially from the main subject of attention or course of argument). Secondly, you commit the fallacy of equivocation by contorting "WORKS" into an alternate (& convenient) definition to allow personal effort (avoiding 1 sin) to be GRACE rather than WORKS.

[ChristianTruthHammer]

I say the one sin you have to avoid is rejecting the gospel because the rest have been paid for and you say I preach works? That's stupid. Rejecting the gospel wouldn't do anybody any good if the rest hadn't been paid for. That's grace, not works.

I can point to other references if you'd like. There are plenty of places in the Bible that say Christ died for sins.

Romans 5:6 says Christ died for the ungodly. Are you suggesting the non-elect don't count as "ungodly" or that the verse is wrong?

[CAnswersTV]

ChristianTruthHammer, you & your Arminianism are teaching that people need to WORK by personal effort (is that classified as MAKING A DECISION?) to AVOID A SIN (or is it 2 sins: BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT as another to be AVOIDED, Matt. 12:31-32?) while Jesus says this is IMPOSSIBLE (Mark 10:27) & so does John (John 1:12-13). Vast numbers of people in "Christian" churches claim to believe as you say but they are not BORN AGAIN (Matt. 7:21-29), why not? Rom 5:6 is the UNGODLY ELECT only.

[ChristianTruthHammer]

I'm done with this conversation. You don't get it. Making a decision to accept God's grace through the gospel is works (again I point to John 6:29 even if it is)? That is the stupidest thing I have heard all week. Rejection of the gospel is a form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. You've taken the verses in Mark and John COMPLETELY out of their context. Romans 5:6 does not say elect anywhere. Hebrews 2:9 is further proof that he died for every man. I'm not Arminian; I preach eternal security

[CAnswersTV]

"ChristianUNTRUTHRUBBERHammer" I figured you would turn & run as soon as you could not handle the "STUPID" questions being put forth to you. You are the one who refuses to take things in their CONTEXT: God HATES Esau & DID NOT GRANT HIM REPENTANCE (2 Timothy 2:24-26) even though he sought it with tears (Hebrews 12:16-17). You CAN'T WORK to believe as you say (that's why most people claiming to be Christians are not born again). You're only BORN AGAIN by a SOVEREIGN ACT OF GOD (Romans 9:18).