Homohoffie, could you please stop posting under Meade, or GrafGirl, or LVD or McClellan, or any other sissy screen aliases....be a man, sissy....don't make fun of women getting stabbed, sissy, and just post under ONE screen name.....and by the way, miss thing is humiliating you.....
And here, someone called Hoffenheim08 must be a horrible person. He took the stabbing incident so lightly like someone who read a crime in newspaper with morning coffee and bread saying 'shit happens everywhere.'
Seles, as a tennis queen in such young age, she had a special and unique mindset since 6 yr old. Suddenly all of those shattered by the stabbing incident. Talk about falling from a rooftop. It wasn't about how fast she recovered, but clearly it was the turning point of her career.
Graf had to watch her family being destroyed by the blackmail scandal of 1990-92 and the tax scandal of 1995-97. Her mindset was shattered, too. Difference is that SHE kept on winning slams. And that Seles won almost ALL of her slams by profiting from Graf's slump or injury-related absence.
No she's not. By 1991 Graf overtook her twice, she's no longer in slump. She even won Wimbledon and having bad luck running into on-fire Navratilova in USO SF. Stop contradicting and lying.
Well, Hingis last win in Tokyo is against Ivanovic in final.
Different opponent, different tactics, very different game overall. With Graf it looks competitive with a lot of running and hitting. With Ivanovic, all the points are mostly very short and Ivanovic can either be in the mode of wiping the floor with Hingis or self-destruct.
Undoubtedly Graf was better than the whole lot.......Steffi survived and conquered the era of Navratilova and Chris Evert then the era of Seles and Sanchez-Vicario and also stood up against Hingis, Davenport & the Russians, 3 different time and different techniques no other ever lasted three different techniques of game. It was during the Williams when the game shifted from technique to power & was getting older and she retired. She is still the queen of tennis.defeated different players in time
Hahahahaha no, no and no. Only stupid, gullibe person would believe you. Seles conquered 21 yrs old Graf from mid 1990-early 1993 when she's merely 16 yrs old. Evert + Navratilova was already over 30 when Graf was finally able to take over. Talk about being lucky at the perfect time. And then, 35+ Navratilova could still beat prime Steffi while I doubt Steffi could ever do the same to those big babes in 2002.
You are mistaken. Seles took the #1 ranking away from Graf when she was 17 years old (not 16). Graf even regained the top twice in 1991.
Re Navratilova: She beat #1 Seles several times in 1991-93. While she lost all her matches to #1 Graf in 1988/89 (although being several years younger than in 1991-93!). Further proof that Seles profited from Graf being in a severe slump in the early 90s. Everybody knows that.
See? Keep contradicting yourself. First you say Graf is in a very big slump and then you say she overtook Seles as no. 1 twice in 1991 and still winning slams. Right, she's in slump. LOL
Sure, Steffi is one hell of a great player herself, but her luck contributed so much to her achievements. Indeed, she is the luckiest player ever. What happened to Seles wasn't her fault but anyone with good logic knows all her achievements post the stabbing carried a big asterisk behind them.
Look what happened recently when Djoker, Nadal, and Murray didn't perform their best? Guess who took advantage of it? Never in doubt it was FEDERER.
Graf had a lot of bad luck. Family scandals, injuries and illnesses, career cut short by a knee injury at age 27.
Seles had to cope with her dad dying from cancer and with this stabbing incident. But don't forget that she won most of her slams only because Graf lost her 1988/89 form in the early 90s due to this blackmail scandal. I don't see how Seles could have overtaken a peak-form Graf, considering that even as the #1 player she lost most of her matches against Graf.
@volvariella Agreed. The only reason Steffi reached 22 slams is because her #1 fan used a knife to do what she couldn't do with a racket; take the #1 ranking away from a dominant Monica Seles. Steffi's fans will NEVER concede this because they know it means Steffi is not the greatest ever. Every tennis expert and legend who has spoken on the subject says Steffi would not have 22 slams. Even Andre Agassi has said so! Steffi was a great player but absolutely not the greatest.
@Meade3763 Austin was not the dominant player that Seles, and even in her absence Evert and Navratilova each had to contend with an all-time great. Decent, intelligent people don't compare a career thwarted by a vicious attack at the hands of a deranged lunatic to a career shortened by a bum knee or a bad back...that is idiotic and tasteless.
@Meade3763 Steffi's bum knee was not the result of an attack by a lunatic...make a list of all of the players in history who have had a bad knee, and then make a list of the players in history who had a knife plunged into their back.
A minor scandal OUTSIDE tennis did not prevent her competing at the top level. A major physical violence related to TENNIS definitely is.
Your statement calling Seles stab as minor is unsurprising. Because all lunatic Graf fans basically supported Gunther Parche and thanked him for kicking Seles butt out of the picture.
@Meade3763 Only a Steffi Graf fan would call the Seles stabbing a minor distraction and Peter Graf's extramarital affairs a major distraction ROFLMAO!!! You are one sick puppy, Hoffy! Sometimes I get the strangest feeling that your last name is Graf...Heidi, is that you?????? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
@Meade3763 You know, there are so many maybe's...maybe, as you suggest, Monica should have just gotten over the little stabbing...maybe if Heidi Graf had gotten the face lift and breast implants that some people felt she needed, then Peter would not have strayed, and there would have been no scandal or distraction. I've heard people say that Heidi is a nice lady, but I don't recall anyone calling her beautiful...and judging by the models that Peter slept with, looks were VERY important to him.
Heidi Graf was always a beautiful lady. But sadly sometime men in their mid-life crisis gravitate towards girls who could be their daughters. Ask Hillary Clinton.
@Meade3763 Heidi Graf was often referred to as a nice lady, and perhaps she was intelligent...but I've never heard anyone except you call her beautiful. I doubt that Peter was gravitating towards girls who could be his daughter...Peter slept with models. Steffi had a decent figure, but from the chin up no one ever mistook her for Giselle or Naomi. I don't know if Peter had a mid-life crisis...maybe he just wanted the companionship of someone he was physically attracted to.
@Meade3763 What I do know is that ONE model is too many if you are married, and given Peter's reputation and obvious lack of integrity, I think it's incredibly naive to believe one model was enough.
@mayukhbubun Steffi never conquered the era of Monica Seles...Steffi's #1 fan took matters into his own hands and did with a knife what Steffi wasn't talented enough to do with a racket: remove Monica Seles from the top of women's tennis. Monica was racking up slam titles MUCH faster than Graf ever did...HALF of Steffi's slams came AFTER her chief rival was absent from the game. No way is Steffi the best ever..Court and Navratilova won more while facing their chief rivals..MUCH more impressive!
You must not forget that Seles won most of her slams only because Steffi was in a severe slump. I don't think that Seles would have stood a chance against a Steffi in 1988 form. Even 1995/96 Steffi was far better than Steffi of 1990-92. Proof is that Steffi lost many matches to Sabatini and Novotna in 1990-92, players she usually dominated.
So both player profited form the bad luck of the other, first Seles, then Steffi. That's life.
@Meade3763 Seles won most of her slams because she was the superior player...Graf was in no slump. She was in a position where a younger, superior player was taking complete control of the game. Her confidence was rocked and justifiably so. Nothing Steffi encountered or endured can ever compare to what Monica was subjected to...any suggestion to the contrary is idiotic and profoundly insensitive.
When she lost 7 of 8 matches to Sabatini at some point during that time?
When she lost 3 matches to Novotna within one year?
Graf is 29-11 head-to-head against Sabatini and 28-3 against Novotna ...
You have to face reality - Seles became #1 only because Graf was slumping big-time. It is ridiculous to suggest that vintage 1988/89 Graf would have had any trouble to keep her #1 ranking.
@Meade3763 Only Graf fans call it a slump when players start to beat her. I guess Roger has been in a slump for a few years now that Rafa and Nole are winning the slams..it has nothing to do with them improving and being superior! Monica Seles was superior to Graf..she owned the slams and had a 3-1 record in slam finals against Graf. She won slams at a MUCH faster rate than Graf did and she didn't benefit from having her chief rival removed from the game. Graf is the luckiest ever, not best.
Are you really surprised that a Graf who at some point in the early 1990s lost 7 of 8 matches to Sabatini (she is 29-11 head-to-head against Sabatini) and 3 of 5 matches to Novotna (she is 28-4 head-to-head against Novotna) also lost 3 of 4 slam finals to Seles (one of them with 2-6 6-3 8-10) while winning 2 of 2 non-slam matches against against her in between?
No no no. Steffi wasn't in severe slump. Like you said, she's still winning slams and even overtook peak Seles twice in 1991. Stop contradicting and blowing stuff out of proportion.
@Meade3763 Steffi won 11 slams, ONE HALF of her total, after her chief rival was stabbed in her name. Graf fans like to pretend that the day Monica returned the playing field was level, but people with compassion and intelligence know better. Monica was never the same, and given her complete and unprecedented dominance prior to the stabbing, each of the 11 slams Steffi won is tainted. Absolutely NO WAY Steffi would have 22 slams had Monica not been stabbed...NO WAY Steffi is best ever. No way!
@Meade3763 You cannot name one expert who thinks Steffi is the greatest who is not also on the record for saying that Steffi would not have 22 slams were it not for the Seles stabbing. Not ONE! EVERY expert who has opined on this topic agrees because it is absolutely true. Most experts and fans do not agree that Steffi is best ever...Steffi does not own the record for most slams, nor does she own the record for most overall titles. She never dominated singles, doubles and mixed..others have =)
No expert thinks that Seles would have won her 8 slams pre-stabbin were it not for Steffi's blackmail-induced slump in 1990-92. Not ONE!
So Court holds the record for most slams and for most overall titles, so what! She played most of her career in the amateur era when almost no one bothered to travel to Australia.
@Meade3763 Name one tennis legend who is on record for saying that Monica Seles' domination of tennis was due to Steffi's personal problems. NAME ONE and post the source! You WON'T because you CAN'T! If Court's record is inflated due to her lack of competition then so is Steffi's!!! You can't have it both ways, Hoffy!!! lolol
All experts hailed Seles as Graf archrival and she deserved all her slams because the fact is, Graf competed at the top level pre-stabbing even with that so-called BIG scandal. Those experts are not lame, making excuses blindly and even sinking as low as saying that Seles incident is "minor".
I find that the more lunatic they are as Graf fans, the more unsportsmanlike they will be.
@Meade3763 The true damage that Monica endured was psychological...it can take years, if not a lifetime, for a person to recover emotionally from being attacked...intelligent, informed and compassionate people know and understand this. So, what is the purpose of stating that the stab wound was minor? Honestly, I have never encountered a more vicious, morally deficient group of sports fanatics than those who adore Steffi. Parche was the leader but certainly not the exception...
@Meade3763 Steffi was caught cheating during matches with her father when she was a teenager...she was penalized by the WTA for it more than once. Therefore, she knew he lacked morals from an early age. Thus, the fact that he couldn't keep his zipper up should not have come a a surprise to her. Besides, every player has distractions that they have to learn to deal with...only one player had to deal with a stabbing.
Which player in the history of tennis had to suffer even a FRACTION of the negative headlines in national tabloids as Graf had to in 1990/91 and 1995/96? I'm talking about some "trauma" AFTER that, I'm talking about having to play DURING that shit!
Say, are you Graf haters dense or what? Do you still have problems with World War 2???
@Meade3763 Hoffy, Billie Jean King suffered worse headlines and worse knee problems than Steffi ever did. She had MULTIPLE knee surgeries during her career, and medical technology was not nearly as advanced in her day as it was when Steffi had her little procedure. Not only did Billie Jean have to deal with being outed and multiple knee surgeries, but she had the pressure of carrying the future of women's tennis on her shoulders. Far more pressure than Steffi ever endured...
@Meade3763 Martina Navratilova defected from her homeland, and in doing so faced the possibility that she might not ever see her family again. That is much more traumatic than Steffi facing tabloid tales about her father not keeping his pants zipped up...she already knew he had no integrity because she got penalized by the WTA for the illegal hand signals he used to give her doing matches...so it could not have been a surprise that he was sleeping with women more beautiful than her mother.
Martina Navratilova suffered more than her. She even dealt with it alone on the way to her greatness while Steffi, according to you, was severely slumped. So much for the so-called great champion.
@mayukhbubun Court and Navratilova did not have the benefit of having their chief rival removed from the game. Not only that, but they achieved more in singles than Steffi did while also dominating doubles and mixed! So they worked harder, rested less and STILL won more than Steffi! How many French titles would Federer have if Rafa had been removed from he game? How many slams would Andre have if Pete had been removed? Steffi was great, but her record is inflated and she's overrated.
Agassi lost most of his matches against Sampras. So did Federer against Nadal (he is 9-17 head-to-head currently!). But Graf always dominated the head-to-head stats against Seles. Pre- and post-stabbing.
Taken all together Graf had far better competition in her prime than Navratilova. Whom did Navratilova play in 1982-86 (her best years)? An old Evert whose peak years were in the 70s and players like Shriver, Mandlikova, Kohde, Jaeger, Turnbull.
See? You contradicted yourself again LOL How amusing. You say Graf in severe slump yet she dominated head-to-head stats against Seles pre-stabbing. Yeah, dominated Seles in her three slam finals pre-stabbing, too.
The GOAT list is really always Graf and Nav in the top 2 positions in either order followed by Evert and Court at 3 and 4 again in either order. Seles is unfortunately has to stand on what she achieved which puts her further down list. She could easily have been all time #1 or like Courior and Hingis had an amazing peak but less sustained. I suspect a little more of the latter, but still vastly superior to both Courior and Hingis.
Oh my... you must be a fanatic supporter of that old supa dupa mega bitch. She's also fucking foot-faulting everytime, OPEN YOUR EYES WIDELY, ZOOM THE VIDEO 300% at 13:26@itsjonkuo
Too bad Hingis didn't have a strong forehand... Graf just hammered every ball that was coming from Hingis forehand like it's nothing. It was also very vulnerable from relentless attack. Hingis defense would crumble easily when Graf attacked her forehand side.
Hingis was probably the only player who sent the ball to Graf's backhand very frequently and rarely attack her forehand side. If she had twice as good forehand, she would have much better opportunity to win, I think.
@Hoffenheim08 Graf never beat a PEAK Venus Williams. She had a 3-2 record over Venus but all of their matches came in the late 90's (before Venus ever won a major). She beat Venus once in 1996 (Venus was 16 years old) and they met 4 times in 1999 (each winning two). Venus won her first major in 2000, but didn't "peak" until 2002-2003 where she was the SECOND best player in the world and made the finals of every slam but ultimately lost each to her sister who also peaked around the same time.
@Hoffenheim08 I'm aware of the facts, but apparently YOU are not. Venus didn't win a single MAJOR in 1999 and in fact only reached the semis ONCE. She finished 1999 ranked number 3. She didn't start dominating until the second half of 2000 where she won two majors, then won 7 tournaments in 01 including two more majors and finally reached number 1 in 2002. Simply winning a lot of matches in a given season does not reflect the peak of a 7 time grandslam champion's performance timetable idiot!
If you define "peak" only with the 2 best years you could be right, dickhead.
But Venus was a top-3 player at the end of the year in only 4 years: 1999 (#3) , 2000 (#3) , 2001 (#3) and 2002 (#2). She won more than 3 tournaments in only 4 years: 1999 (6), 2000 (6), 2001 (6) and 2002 (7).
In all other years she was #5 or worse and won 3 or even less tournaments.
@Hoffenheim08 Most people define peak as the prime years in which you accomplished the greatest impact in your career numbnuts! Three of the four years you mentioned were AFTER Steffi Graf retired. Venus BEST majors run and highest winning percentage were between 00-01. Her highest ranking (number ONE) was in 01. From then she continued to sporadically dominate along with her sister until 2009. The point is 1999 was NOT her "peak" FUCKTARD! She didn't peak until AFTER Graf retired!
By winning less than 2 tournaments on average each year?
Or by not making a slam final outside of Wimbledon?
BS, her peak years were 1999-2002. And old Graf beat her in Wimbledon 1999 and overtook her in the WTA rankings. 1999 being not among Graf's best TEN years ...
Graf BEST ten years of a WEAK ERA. Once Seles was stabbed, she took advantage in 1993, 1995, 1996 as Hingis in 1997 took advantage of her long absence due to injury. Woo-hoo, let me remind you that nothing beats the 1999 to 2003 period, bitch.
Er, Seles wasn't stabbed anymore in 95/96, was the #2 player, made 3 of 5 slam finals. Bad luck for her that THIS time there was no slumping Graf.
1999-2003? You mean those years when a Capriati was able to win 3 slams? Yeah, that must have been "The Golden Age of Women's Tennis" .... Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
Yup, Capriati, the brat who kicked her ass in Barcelona Olympics.
Steffi robbed too much from FO 1993 until Wimby 1995. In 1994 she slumped again as it's impossible to dominate every year even with weak competition. It's as NATURAL as 1990-1992 period, unlike the stabbing incident which was planned and man-made.
And you seem to ignore other players beside Monica, which can be understood, they're just non-existent compared to the fearsome level of competition in 1999-2003.
What difference does it make Sissy? Venus KILLED Graf 6-2,6-3 on hard courts at Lipton, YEARS before Venus hit her prime.......Venus had not even won a slam yet, and she beat the hell out of Steffi......lets face it Graf retired to avoid being beaten to a pulp by the williams sisters......
and it doesn't make any difference: Steffi was second beat to Seles, and only got back to number one because Seles was stabbed......
@Hoffenheim08 I didn't say she dominated that entire peiord, I said she dominated sporadically. She won 3 Wimbledon's, made 6 GS finals and finished in the top ten in 6 of those years. Considering her limited tour schedules, her average winning percentage was strong throughout those years. No one single player dominated throughout that span but Venus along with Serena and Justine were the 3 most dominant. And I've already said her peak years were 00-01 where she won the most slams.
@Hoffenheim08 And you're saying that she couldn't have been at her peak because she didn't make a slam final outside of Wimbledon, but you're saying that 1999 was her peak year even though she didn't make a single GS final at all that year. That's idiotic and defies your own logic. Venus wasn't nearly the same player in 1999 as she was in 2001 or 2002. And if she had faced Graf in those years, Graf would have been utterly destroyed!
@Hoffenheim08 And you're saying that Venus couldn't have been at her peak in 03 because she didn't make a slam final outside of Wimbledon (she made the 03 Aussie final dipshit), but you're saying that 1999 was her "peak" year even though she didn't make a single GS final at all that year. That's idiotic and defies even your own logic. Venus wasn't nearly the same player in 1999 as she was in 2001 or 2002. And if she had faced Graf in those years, Graf would have been utterly destroyed!
No way. Graf lost 3 out of 4 slam final matches to Seles, her number one ranking, and admitted that Seles was superior pre stabbing. And grafs winning record means nothing. Graf beat Seles their first three matches (Seles was 15), and then lost the next 4 out 7. In contrast, at 15 and 16, Graf lost 10 out of 11 matches to Martina (29 years old) and chris (32 years old)
At 15 and 16, Steffi won exactly 50 % of her matches to a 29-year-old Navratilova and a 32-year-old Evert.
50 %!!
And how was Seles "superior" to Steffi pre-stabbing when Steffi won most of her matches against the Serb and led her 11-8 in slams and 4-0 in Wimbledon titles?
Graf had the WORST record vs Martina and Chris at 15/16!
Against 28/29 YO Martina, Graf was an ABYSSMAL 2-7.
Against Chris, who was OVER 30, Graf was 0-6....
..yes, let me repeat, Graf was an ABYSSMAL 1-11 vas Martina and Chris (28 and 31 Years Old.....)
Seles? She had INSTANT success against Steffi, going 2-3, including two straight set beat downs, ending Graf's winning streak and Killing Steffi at her home tournament in Berlin!
A 15/17-year-old Seles was 2-5 against Steffi. A 13/17-year-old Steffi was 3-5 against Navratilova and 2-6 against Evert. That's a 28.6 winning percentage for Seles and a 31.3 winning percentage for Steffi.
So we can conclude that as a minor Steffi had a better winning percentage against Evertilova than Seles against Steffi.
Plus Steffi won 16 slams after her 20th birthday, Seles only one.
Graf went an abysmal 3-7 vs Martina (28-30 years old).......6 out of 7 of those losses were in STRAIGHT SETS.In fact, in their first five encounters, Graf was a terrible 1-4.
Against Chris Evert, Graf was even WORSE, an awful 0-6. Chris was 30-32 years old.
Monica? 2-3 in their first five encounters, including two consecutive straight set wins......
F*ck, Graf LOST a SET against Monica the very FIRST time they played, when Seles was 15.
@tarckbear Graf had a winning record against Seles from the time Seles became number one until she got stabbed. That is not including the matches pre-Seles becoming #1 and after the stabbing. I think you should consider that. Seles was a great player and would most likely have won more slams, but Graf was always the better of the two in my opinion. She was the better athlete, better all court player and more versatile.
Martina always moved so well and did have power in her shots...I always wondered why she did not beef up her serve to stay at or near the top....I really believe she had more weapons and Steffi could not seem to hurt her at all except the matches she won when Martina was only 15...good match by two great champions of the game!!
Over-the-hill Graf hurt 17-year-old Hingis in Philadelphia 1998 (won the last set with 6-0) and 18-year-old Hingis at the FO 1999 (made Hingis cry in public). Hingis won only one match against Steffi in that time, when Steffi was injured (in Tokyo 1999).
@Hoffenheim08 I'd say Hingis is one of those players that did really well for herself despite not having any real physical weapons, perhaps besides her backhand.
Hingis has all the weapons but she wasn't physically strong enough or aggressive-minded enough. She needs to work very hard like Justine if she wanted to succeed in power and speed game elevated by Williamses.
She depends on strategy, finesse and points construction, it's all thinking. She persisted that way in the era that favors athleticism. Hence she burnt out when she realized that those speedy power players surpassed her in most aspects and her tactics didn't work on them anymore.
Steffi might be feeling determined to win everytime she played Hingis. She was probably thinking "There's no way this pusher can beat me. What's so special about her game? She's smart indeed, but it doesn't bother me much. How come she is the current no. 1 while she's not in any way superior than me." :p :p :p
From her unsatisfied looking face after losing this match, it's like those who couldn't fathom why Hingis can beat them while the match (they think) was actually on their rackets. LOL
Gosh, some of the comments in this thread perfectly illustrate the godwin principle... Steffi was a fantastic champion, but some of her fans are the most lunatic people unfortunately. I really hope she never reads these threads cos she would realize our many parche-like people she has among her "fans"... :(
@juju1305 - I'm with you. I'm a Graf fan (still don't understand how she was able to produce the forehand with such a late, loopy backswing), but the comments on here are shameful.
@HellField04 yes thay are, thanks for pointing it out. I'm amazed with her forehand. It's a timing marvel. I've tried to reproduce it in play, it's almost impossible to perform unless timing and movement is perfect. One has to give her credit for that. Now some of her fans are just terrible
@beavertown2006 That 'black shit' as you call them is a 13-time grand slam champion and one of the best ever, you racist pig.
And also, Hingis is also one of the best of her generation, and she knows it, why should they bend over backwards to be so respectful to other former champions. They're just playing their games.
@Sonsbitchesall then ur fucking blind! I get that u couldnt see the ball in the woz vs hingis vid but thats not my problem i just downloaded the match!! But the ball is visible in this. Oh and ur welcome!!
Hingis showed off her awesome volleying skills here. She might have been eclipsed by her contemporaries, but she had this economy of movement and calmness of presence while pulling off the most difficult shots.
And the only smart thing according to you is worshiping Steffi blindly. I highly doubt you ever ask another idiot like yourself and other Steffi minions before you ask me.
Although is was a little bit fishy that she didn't play for more than 2 years and returned just after Peter Graf was jailed. Apparently Seles thought she could profit in a comparable way as back in 1990-92 when Steffi suffered from the blackmail scandal and Seles won a lot of slams.
Sicko is Gunther (and you), not Seles. Alright, I will stop as this is going off topic and this page is not another Graf/Seles talk waste dump. I have seen enough of your trolling at other pages and things will remain the same.
As usual, you're no different than those narrow-minded lunatics out there who thinks it's all about winning and losing.
You don't have to tell me to live with it. It's you who have trouble accepting the fact that not everyone thinks about Steffi the same way like you, the eternal minion of the greatest mega bitch.
graf is just the ultimate professional-cool and collected-its what sets her apart from evert and navratilova as the greatest ever-evert was cool and collected too but she was boring-graf just exudes class like no other tennis player has
graf is just the ultimate professional-cool and collected-its what sets her apart from evert and navratilova as the greatest ever-evert was cool and collected too but she was boring-graf just exudes vlass like no other tennis player has
I don't care about Hingis vs Graf and you can hate everyone all you want. Your crazed words rich of expletives said it all anyway.
Funny. You are a nobody but you know that detoxification method is not 100% effective to repel the cocaine. Yet you still think a top athlete like Hingis used a cocaine regularly and cleaned it using that risky method herself. What can I say about this simple thoughts of yours? Easier to say this nonsense than to do it.
@CO767224, "If Hingis plays Steffi with more patience I think she'd win more" Wrong, because no matter if Hingis had more patience or not against Graf, Graf was always too much for her. At the same time, Graf was the rare player who found out every type of player and had numerous plans (A, B, C) all the time, naturally.
Martina's got the same kit in this match as she did at 1999 Aus Open, but it then changes for Roland Garros.
Hard to believe she was just 18 years old here!! The best player under 20yrs currently in WTA is Pavlyuchenkova. Hingis here has already collected her 5 grand slams - phenomenal.
BTW, Martina made 8 Toray Pan Pacific Open finals in her career, and won it 5 times. Probably one of her best tournaments I'd say.
Very rare to see Steffi lose her cool. Her body language gives an impression that she's not in a great frame of mind to play. Nevertheless the FO 1999 final was Graf at her best - unruffled and business-like in her approach. A very deserving victory (with a little help from Hingis, no doubt) that was sort of the beginning of the end for the Swiss.
How in the hell was this a Quarter-final match and not even in a Grand Slam??? I guess Steffi's ranking slipped for being out with injuries in 1998. Too bad there weren't more maches between these two. I like the way they match up.
Both women are hitting amazing shots.
Paglia444 4 weeks ago
Homohoffie, could you please stop posting under Meade, or GrafGirl, or LVD or McClellan, or any other sissy screen aliases....be a man, sissy....don't make fun of women getting stabbed, sissy, and just post under ONE screen name.....and by the way, miss thing is humiliating you.....
artisking1 1 month ago
Graf is a great champ and Hingis is a genius
aaa82yt 1 month ago
Comment removed
Meade3763 1 month ago
And here, someone called Hoffenheim08 must be a horrible person. He took the stabbing incident so lightly like someone who read a crime in newspaper with morning coffee and bread saying 'shit happens everywhere.'
Seles, as a tennis queen in such young age, she had a special and unique mindset since 6 yr old. Suddenly all of those shattered by the stabbing incident. Talk about falling from a rooftop. It wasn't about how fast she recovered, but clearly it was the turning point of her career.
volvariella 2 months ago
@volvariella
Graf had to watch her family being destroyed by the blackmail scandal of 1990-92 and the tax scandal of 1995-97. Her mindset was shattered, too. Difference is that SHE kept on winning slams. And that Seles won almost ALL of her slams by profiting from Graf's slump or injury-related absence.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763
No she's not. By 1991 Graf overtook her twice, she's no longer in slump. She even won Wimbledon and having bad luck running into on-fire Navratilova in USO SF. Stop contradicting and lying.
volvariella 1 month ago
Well, Hingis last win in Tokyo is against Ivanovic in final.
Different opponent, different tactics, very different game overall. With Graf it looks competitive with a lot of running and hitting. With Ivanovic, all the points are mostly very short and Ivanovic can either be in the mode of wiping the floor with Hingis or self-destruct.
volvariella 2 months ago
Undoubtedly Graf was better than the whole lot.......Steffi survived and conquered the era of Navratilova and Chris Evert then the era of Seles and Sanchez-Vicario and also stood up against Hingis, Davenport & the Russians, 3 different time and different techniques no other ever lasted three different techniques of game. It was during the Williams when the game shifted from technique to power & was getting older and she retired. She is still the queen of tennis.defeated different players in time
mayukhbubun 2 months ago
@mayukhbubun
Hahahahaha no, no and no. Only stupid, gullibe person would believe you. Seles conquered 21 yrs old Graf from mid 1990-early 1993 when she's merely 16 yrs old. Evert + Navratilova was already over 30 when Graf was finally able to take over. Talk about being lucky at the perfect time. And then, 35+ Navratilova could still beat prime Steffi while I doubt Steffi could ever do the same to those big babes in 2002.
volvariella 2 months ago
@volvariella
You are mistaken. Seles took the #1 ranking away from Graf when she was 17 years old (not 16). Graf even regained the top twice in 1991.
Re Navratilova: She beat #1 Seles several times in 1991-93. While she lost all her matches to #1 Graf in 1988/89 (although being several years younger than in 1991-93!). Further proof that Seles profited from Graf being in a severe slump in the early 90s. Everybody knows that.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763
See? Keep contradicting yourself. First you say Graf is in a very big slump and then you say she overtook Seles as no. 1 twice in 1991 and still winning slams. Right, she's in slump. LOL
volvariella 1 month ago
@mayukhbubun
Sure, Steffi is one hell of a great player herself, but her luck contributed so much to her achievements. Indeed, she is the luckiest player ever. What happened to Seles wasn't her fault but anyone with good logic knows all her achievements post the stabbing carried a big asterisk behind them.
Look what happened recently when Djoker, Nadal, and Murray didn't perform their best? Guess who took advantage of it? Never in doubt it was FEDERER.
volvariella 2 months ago
@volvariella
Graf had a lot of bad luck. Family scandals, injuries and illnesses, career cut short by a knee injury at age 27.
Seles had to cope with her dad dying from cancer and with this stabbing incident. But don't forget that she won most of her slams only because Graf lost her 1988/89 form in the early 90s due to this blackmail scandal. I don't see how Seles could have overtaken a peak-form Graf, considering that even as the #1 player she lost most of her matches against Graf.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763
Also I don't see how Graf could reach 22 slams if Seles weren't stabbed back then.
volvariella 1 month ago
@volvariella Agreed. The only reason Steffi reached 22 slams is because her #1 fan used a knife to do what she couldn't do with a racket; take the #1 ranking away from a dominant Monica Seles. Steffi's fans will NEVER concede this because they know it means Steffi is not the greatest ever. Every tennis expert and legend who has spoken on the subject says Steffi would not have 22 slams. Even Andre Agassi has said so! Steffi was a great player but absolutely not the greatest.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
Steffi would have less slams without the Seles stabbing.
Monica would have less slams without the Graf blackmail scandal.
Hingis would have less slams without Graf's bum knee.
Navratilova and Evert would have less slams without Austin's back injury.
So all experts agree on this.
But what is your point exactly?
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Austin was not the dominant player that Seles, and even in her absence Evert and Navratilova each had to contend with an all-time great. Decent, intelligent people don't compare a career thwarted by a vicious attack at the hands of a deranged lunatic to a career shortened by a bum knee or a bad back...that is idiotic and tasteless.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
A bum knee prevents you from competing at the top level.
A minor stab wound definitely not.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Steffi's bum knee was not the result of an attack by a lunatic...make a list of all of the players in history who have had a bad knee, and then make a list of the players in history who had a knife plunged into their back.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763 So you had no respect for Mr. Seles, Hoffy? What about Mr. Graf? Mrs. Graf??????
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763
A minor scandal OUTSIDE tennis did not prevent her competing at the top level. A major physical violence related to TENNIS definitely is.
Your statement calling Seles stab as minor is unsurprising. Because all lunatic Graf fans basically supported Gunther Parche and thanked him for kicking Seles butt out of the picture.
volvariella 1 month ago
@volvariella
The scandal visibly hampered Steffi big time.
From November 1990 until April 1992 (when the scandal ended) she was
1-7 vs. Sabatini (career 29-11)
2-3 vs. Novotna (career 29-4)
2-0 vs. Seles (career 10-5)
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Only a Steffi Graf fan would call the Seles stabbing a minor distraction and Peter Graf's extramarital affairs a major distraction ROFLMAO!!! You are one sick puppy, Hoffy! Sometimes I get the strangest feeling that your last name is Graf...Heidi, is that you?????? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
The stabbing was no minor distraction. But it ended on April 30th, 1993.
Peter Graf's extramarital affairs were no distraction at all. They ended in 1989 when Steffi had her best year ever.
I have never said anything else.
However I was talking about a blackmail trial and a media campaign. And no, Seles was not the victim there.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 You know, there are so many maybe's...maybe, as you suggest, Monica should have just gotten over the little stabbing...maybe if Heidi Graf had gotten the face lift and breast implants that some people felt she needed, then Peter would not have strayed, and there would have been no scandal or distraction. I've heard people say that Heidi is a nice lady, but I don't recall anyone calling her beautiful...and judging by the models that Peter slept with, looks were VERY important to him.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
Models (plural)??
Do you know more?
Heidi Graf was always a beautiful lady. But sadly sometime men in their mid-life crisis gravitate towards girls who could be their daughters. Ask Hillary Clinton.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Heidi Graf was often referred to as a nice lady, and perhaps she was intelligent...but I've never heard anyone except you call her beautiful. I doubt that Peter was gravitating towards girls who could be his daughter...Peter slept with models. Steffi had a decent figure, but from the chin up no one ever mistook her for Giselle or Naomi. I don't know if Peter had a mid-life crisis...maybe he just wanted the companionship of someone he was physically attracted to.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763 What I do know is that ONE model is too many if you are married, and given Peter's reputation and obvious lack of integrity, I think it's incredibly naive to believe one model was enough.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@mayukhbubun Steffi never conquered the era of Monica Seles...Steffi's #1 fan took matters into his own hands and did with a knife what Steffi wasn't talented enough to do with a racket: remove Monica Seles from the top of women's tennis. Monica was racking up slam titles MUCH faster than Graf ever did...HALF of Steffi's slams came AFTER her chief rival was absent from the game. No way is Steffi the best ever..Court and Navratilova won more while facing their chief rivals..MUCH more impressive!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
You must not forget that Seles won most of her slams only because Steffi was in a severe slump. I don't think that Seles would have stood a chance against a Steffi in 1988 form. Even 1995/96 Steffi was far better than Steffi of 1990-92. Proof is that Steffi lost many matches to Sabatini and Novotna in 1990-92, players she usually dominated.
So both player profited form the bad luck of the other, first Seles, then Steffi. That's life.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Seles won most of her slams because she was the superior player...Graf was in no slump. She was in a position where a younger, superior player was taking complete control of the game. Her confidence was rocked and justifiably so. Nothing Steffi encountered or endured can ever compare to what Monica was subjected to...any suggestion to the contrary is idiotic and profoundly insensitive.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
Graf was in no slump?
When she lost 7 of 8 matches to Sabatini at some point during that time?
When she lost 3 matches to Novotna within one year?
Graf is 29-11 head-to-head against Sabatini and 28-3 against Novotna ...
You have to face reality - Seles became #1 only because Graf was slumping big-time. It is ridiculous to suggest that vintage 1988/89 Graf would have had any trouble to keep her #1 ranking.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Only Graf fans call it a slump when players start to beat her. I guess Roger has been in a slump for a few years now that Rafa and Nole are winning the slams..it has nothing to do with them improving and being superior! Monica Seles was superior to Graf..she owned the slams and had a 3-1 record in slam finals against Graf. She won slams at a MUCH faster rate than Graf did and she didn't benefit from having her chief rival removed from the game. Graf is the luckiest ever, not best.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
Are you really surprised that a Graf who at some point in the early 1990s lost 7 of 8 matches to Sabatini (she is 29-11 head-to-head against Sabatini) and 3 of 5 matches to Novotna (she is 28-4 head-to-head against Novotna) also lost 3 of 4 slam finals to Seles (one of them with 2-6 6-3 8-10) while winning 2 of 2 non-slam matches against against her in between?
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763
No no no. Steffi wasn't in severe slump. Like you said, she's still winning slams and even overtook peak Seles twice in 1991. Stop contradicting and blowing stuff out of proportion.
volvariella 1 month ago
@volvariella
Even a slumping Graf fought toe-to-toe with Seles and won slams.
Where is there any "contradiction"?
Meade3763 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
You are misinformed.
Graf won only 6 of her 22 slams in 1993-95 during Seles's absence after the stabbing.
And Seles won 2 of her 9 slams when Graf was out injured.
Is it Graf's fault that Seles couldn't profit from Graf's injuries post-96 and Graf's retirement post-99?
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763
It's not anyone's fault. But objectively, with Seles around, Graf wouldn't have won as many.
volvariella 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Steffi won 11 slams, ONE HALF of her total, after her chief rival was stabbed in her name. Graf fans like to pretend that the day Monica returned the playing field was level, but people with compassion and intelligence know better. Monica was never the same, and given her complete and unprecedented dominance prior to the stabbing, each of the 11 slams Steffi won is tainted. Absolutely NO WAY Steffi would have 22 slams had Monica not been stabbed...NO WAY Steffi is best ever. No way!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
Seles won 9 slams, ALL of them after her chief rival was distracted by a nasty scandal that eventually destroyed her family.
Graf on the other hand won only 6 slams while Seles was out, 3 of them on surfaces on which Seles never was able to beat her.
Why do you think most experts and fans think that Steffi is the best ever?
Are they all paid by Steffi or the German government?
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 You cannot name one expert who thinks Steffi is the greatest who is not also on the record for saying that Steffi would not have 22 slams were it not for the Seles stabbing. Not ONE! EVERY expert who has opined on this topic agrees because it is absolutely true. Most experts and fans do not agree that Steffi is best ever...Steffi does not own the record for most slams, nor does she own the record for most overall titles. She never dominated singles, doubles and mixed..others have =)
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
No expert thinks that Seles would have won her 8 slams pre-stabbin were it not for Steffi's blackmail-induced slump in 1990-92. Not ONE!
So Court holds the record for most slams and for most overall titles, so what! She played most of her career in the amateur era when almost no one bothered to travel to Australia.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Name one tennis legend who is on record for saying that Monica Seles' domination of tennis was due to Steffi's personal problems. NAME ONE and post the source! You WON'T because you CAN'T! If Court's record is inflated due to her lack of competition then so is Steffi's!!! You can't have it both ways, Hoffy!!! lolol
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763
All experts hailed Seles as Graf archrival and she deserved all her slams because the fact is, Graf competed at the top level pre-stabbing even with that so-called BIG scandal. Those experts are not lame, making excuses blindly and even sinking as low as saying that Seles incident is "minor".
I find that the more lunatic they are as Graf fans, the more unsportsmanlike they will be.
volvariella 1 month ago
@volvariella
The incident was not minor, I would never say that!
However the stab wound was minor compared to most other stab wounds. Which is an undeniable fact.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 The true damage that Monica endured was psychological...it can take years, if not a lifetime, for a person to recover emotionally from being attacked...intelligent, informed and compassionate people know and understand this. So, what is the purpose of stating that the stab wound was minor? Honestly, I have never encountered a more vicious, morally deficient group of sports fanatics than those who adore Steffi. Parche was the leader but certainly not the exception...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Steffi was caught cheating during matches with her father when she was a teenager...she was penalized by the WTA for it more than once. Therefore, she knew he lacked morals from an early age. Thus, the fact that he couldn't keep his zipper up should not have come a a surprise to her. Besides, every player has distractions that they have to learn to deal with...only one player had to deal with a stabbing.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@MissThingSings
Which player in the history of tennis had to suffer even a FRACTION of the negative headlines in national tabloids as Graf had to in 1990/91 and 1995/96? I'm talking about some "trauma" AFTER that, I'm talking about having to play DURING that shit!
Say, are you Graf haters dense or what? Do you still have problems with World War 2???
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Hoffy, Billie Jean King suffered worse headlines and worse knee problems than Steffi ever did. She had MULTIPLE knee surgeries during her career, and medical technology was not nearly as advanced in her day as it was when Steffi had her little procedure. Not only did Billie Jean have to deal with being outed and multiple knee surgeries, but she had the pressure of carrying the future of women's tennis on her shoulders. Far more pressure than Steffi ever endured...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763 Martina Navratilova defected from her homeland, and in doing so faced the possibility that she might not ever see her family again. That is much more traumatic than Steffi facing tabloid tales about her father not keeping his pants zipped up...she already knew he had no integrity because she got penalized by the WTA for the illegal hand signals he used to give her doing matches...so it could not have been a surprise that he was sleeping with women more beautiful than her mother.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@Meade3763
Martina Navratilova suffered more than her. She even dealt with it alone on the way to her greatness while Steffi, according to you, was severely slumped. So much for the so-called great champion.
volvariella 1 month ago
@mayukhbubun Court and Navratilova did not have the benefit of having their chief rival removed from the game. Not only that, but they achieved more in singles than Steffi did while also dominating doubles and mixed! So they worked harder, rested less and STILL won more than Steffi! How many French titles would Federer have if Rafa had been removed from he game? How many slams would Andre have if Pete had been removed? Steffi was great, but her record is inflated and she's overrated.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Agassi lost most of his matches against Sampras. So did Federer against Nadal (he is 9-17 head-to-head currently!). But Graf always dominated the head-to-head stats against Seles. Pre- and post-stabbing.
Taken all together Graf had far better competition in her prime than Navratilova. Whom did Navratilova play in 1982-86 (her best years)? An old Evert whose peak years were in the 70s and players like Shriver, Mandlikova, Kohde, Jaeger, Turnbull.
Meade3763 1 month ago
@Meade3763
See? You contradicted yourself again LOL How amusing. You say Graf in severe slump yet she dominated head-to-head stats against Seles pre-stabbing. Yeah, dominated Seles in her three slam finals pre-stabbing, too.
volvariella 1 month ago
hingis mi jugadora favorita siempre es un placer verla jugar
rito3101 2 months ago
The GOAT list is really always Graf and Nav in the top 2 positions in either order followed by Evert and Court at 3 and 4 again in either order. Seles is unfortunately has to stand on what she achieved which puts her further down list. She could easily have been all time #1 or like Courior and Hingis had an amazing peak but less sustained. I suspect a little more of the latter, but still vastly superior to both Courior and Hingis.
Ineddiblehulk 2 months ago
13:15 TERRIBLE FOOT FAULT. Hingis foot faulted all the fucking time.
itsjonkuo 2 months ago
Oh my... you must be a fanatic supporter of that old supa dupa mega bitch. She's also fucking foot-faulting everytime, OPEN YOUR EYES WIDELY, ZOOM THE VIDEO 300% at 13:26 @itsjonkuo
volvariella 2 months ago
Back when women hit winners...
Fernball21 2 months ago
Too bad Hingis didn't have a strong forehand... Graf just hammered every ball that was coming from Hingis forehand like it's nothing. It was also very vulnerable from relentless attack. Hingis defense would crumble easily when Graf attacked her forehand side.
Hingis was probably the only player who sent the ball to Graf's backhand very frequently and rarely attack her forehand side. If she had twice as good forehand, she would have much better opportunity to win, I think.
volvariella 3 months ago
@tarckbear
Graf beat peak Navratilova, peak Mandlikova, peak Seles, peak Sanchez, peak Hingis, peak V. Williams.
All of them players who won at least 4 slams each.
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Graf never beat a PEAK Venus Williams. She had a 3-2 record over Venus but all of their matches came in the late 90's (before Venus ever won a major). She beat Venus once in 1996 (Venus was 16 years old) and they met 4 times in 1999 (each winning two). Venus won her first major in 2000, but didn't "peak" until 2002-2003 where she was the SECOND best player in the world and made the finals of every slam but ultimately lost each to her sister who also peaked around the same time.
wesmartin91 3 months ago
@wesmartin91
In how many years did Venus win more matches and more titles than in 1999?
Thanks ...
And next time we check the facts first before we embarrass ourselves in a public internet forum, do we?
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I'm aware of the facts, but apparently YOU are not. Venus didn't win a single MAJOR in 1999 and in fact only reached the semis ONCE. She finished 1999 ranked number 3. She didn't start dominating until the second half of 2000 where she won two majors, then won 7 tournaments in 01 including two more majors and finally reached number 1 in 2002. Simply winning a lot of matches in a given season does not reflect the peak of a 7 time grandslam champion's performance timetable idiot!
wesmartin91 3 months ago
@wesmartin91
If you define "peak" only with the 2 best years you could be right, dickhead.
But Venus was a top-3 player at the end of the year in only 4 years: 1999 (#3) , 2000 (#3) , 2001 (#3) and 2002 (#2). She won more than 3 tournaments in only 4 years: 1999 (6), 2000 (6), 2001 (6) and 2002 (7).
In all other years she was #5 or worse and won 3 or even less tournaments.
So 1999-2002 was clearly her peak, dipshit.
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Most people define peak as the prime years in which you accomplished the greatest impact in your career numbnuts! Three of the four years you mentioned were AFTER Steffi Graf retired. Venus BEST majors run and highest winning percentage were between 00-01. Her highest ranking (number ONE) was in 01. From then she continued to sporadically dominate along with her sister until 2009. The point is 1999 was NOT her "peak" FUCKTARD! She didn't peak until AFTER Graf retired!
wesmartin91 3 months ago
@wesmartin91
Er, how did Venus "dominate" in 2003-09?
By winning less than 2 tournaments on average each year?
Or by not making a slam final outside of Wimbledon?
BS, her peak years were 1999-2002. And old Graf beat her in Wimbledon 1999 and overtook her in the WTA rankings. 1999 being not among Graf's best TEN years ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
@Hoffenheim08
Graf BEST ten years of a WEAK ERA. Once Seles was stabbed, she took advantage in 1993, 1995, 1996 as Hingis in 1997 took advantage of her long absence due to injury. Woo-hoo, let me remind you that nothing beats the 1999 to 2003 period, bitch.
volvariella 3 months ago
@volvariella
Er, Seles wasn't stabbed anymore in 95/96, was the #2 player, made 3 of 5 slam finals. Bad luck for her that THIS time there was no slumping Graf.
1999-2003? You mean those years when a Capriati was able to win 3 slams? Yeah, that must have been "The Golden Age of Women's Tennis" .... Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
Comment removed
volvariella 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Yup, Capriati, the brat who kicked her ass in Barcelona Olympics.
Steffi robbed too much from FO 1993 until Wimby 1995. In 1994 she slumped again as it's impossible to dominate every year even with weak competition. It's as NATURAL as 1990-1992 period, unlike the stabbing incident which was planned and man-made.
And you seem to ignore other players beside Monica, which can be understood, they're just non-existent compared to the fearsome level of competition in 1999-2003.
volvariella 3 months ago
@volvariella
1999-2003 was so fearsome that someone like Capriati was able to win 3 slams.
A player who is 1-10 H2H or so against Graf. With Graf destroying her 61 60 still in 1999.
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Yeah and Graf lost to Coetzer something like 6-0, 6-1 too LOL So much for the greatest of all time.
volvariella 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@volvariella
And what has that to do with anything, vulvarella?
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
What difference does it make Sissy? Venus KILLED Graf 6-2,6-3 on hard courts at Lipton, YEARS before Venus hit her prime.......Venus had not even won a slam yet, and she beat the hell out of Steffi......lets face it Graf retired to avoid being beaten to a pulp by the williams sisters......
and it doesn't make any difference: Steffi was second beat to Seles, and only got back to number one because Seles was stabbed......
artisking1 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I didn't say she dominated that entire peiord, I said she dominated sporadically. She won 3 Wimbledon's, made 6 GS finals and finished in the top ten in 6 of those years. Considering her limited tour schedules, her average winning percentage was strong throughout those years. No one single player dominated throughout that span but Venus along with Serena and Justine were the 3 most dominant. And I've already said her peak years were 00-01 where she won the most slams.
wesmartin91 3 months ago
@wesmartin91
So over-the-hill Graf overtook Venus in the WTA rankings and beat her in Wimbledon just 6 months before Venus' 24 month peak period.
Quite impressive from Steffi ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 And you're saying that she couldn't have been at her peak because she didn't make a slam final outside of Wimbledon, but you're saying that 1999 was her peak year even though she didn't make a single GS final at all that year. That's idiotic and defies your own logic. Venus wasn't nearly the same player in 1999 as she was in 2001 or 2002. And if she had faced Graf in those years, Graf would have been utterly destroyed!
wesmartin91 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 And you're saying that Venus couldn't have been at her peak in 03 because she didn't make a slam final outside of Wimbledon (she made the 03 Aussie final dipshit), but you're saying that 1999 was her "peak" year even though she didn't make a single GS final at all that year. That's idiotic and defies even your own logic. Venus wasn't nearly the same player in 1999 as she was in 2001 or 2002. And if she had faced Graf in those years, Graf would have been utterly destroyed!
wesmartin91 3 months ago
@wesmartin91
Lucky Graf that she overtook Venus in the WTA rankings and beat her in Wimbledon.
Because just 6 months later Venus' peak began ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
No way. Graf lost 3 out of 4 slam final matches to Seles, her number one ranking, and admitted that Seles was superior pre stabbing. And grafs winning record means nothing. Graf beat Seles their first three matches (Seles was 15), and then lost the next 4 out 7. In contrast, at 15 and 16, Graf lost 10 out of 11 matches to Martina (29 years old) and chris (32 years old)
artisking1 3 months ago 5
@artisking1
The next lie, faggie boy.
At 15 and 16, Steffi won exactly 50 % of her matches to a 29-year-old Navratilova and a 32-year-old Evert.
50 %!!
And how was Seles "superior" to Steffi pre-stabbing when Steffi won most of her matches against the Serb and led her 11-8 in slams and 4-0 in Wimbledon titles?
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Bullsh*t Sissy HOMOHoffie!
Graf had the WORST record vs Martina and Chris at 15/16!
Against 28/29 YO Martina, Graf was an ABYSSMAL 2-7.
Against Chris, who was OVER 30, Graf was 0-6....
..yes, let me repeat, Graf was an ABYSSMAL 1-11 vas Martina and Chris (28 and 31 Years Old.....)
Seles? She had INSTANT success against Steffi, going 2-3, including two straight set beat downs, ending Graf's winning streak and Killing Steffi at her home tournament in Berlin!
Sorry, Sissy!
artisking1 3 months ago
@artisking1
BS.
A 15/17-year-old Seles was 2-5 against Steffi. A 13/17-year-old Steffi was 3-5 against Navratilova and 2-6 against Evert. That's a 28.6 winning percentage for Seles and a 31.3 winning percentage for Steffi.
So we can conclude that as a minor Steffi had a better winning percentage against Evertilova than Seles against Steffi.
Plus Steffi won 16 slams after her 20th birthday, Seles only one.
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@artisking1
That's nonsense.
At 16 Graf beat both Evert and Navratilova.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
At 16 Seles beat Graf..TWICE in a row.......IN STRAIGHT SETS.......
artisking1 2 months ago
@artisking1
An underage Seles (<17) was 2-5 H2H against Graf while an underaged Graf was 3-5 against Navratilova.
That although Seles was a typical early bloomer while Graf was a slender kid as a youngster.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
More LIES, HOMOHoffie.
Graf went an abysmal 3-7 vs Martina (28-30 years old).......6 out of 7 of those losses were in STRAIGHT SETS.In fact, in their first five encounters, Graf was a terrible 1-4.
Against Chris Evert, Graf was even WORSE, an awful 0-6. Chris was 30-32 years old.
Monica? 2-3 in their first five encounters, including two consecutive straight set wins......
F*ck, Graf LOST a SET against Monica the very FIRST time they played, when Seles was 15.
artisking1 2 months ago
@artisking1
So Graf went 3-7 vs.Navratilova in her first 10 matches - in 1985-87.
And Seles 5-5 - in 1989-91. When Navratilova was FOUR years older!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!
Owned, arseking!!
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
UH, Stupid.....GRAF HAD AN EVEN WORSE RECORD VS MARTINA......she was 2-2 vs Martina the last 4 times they played.....
Seles vs Martina? 3-1, and 5-2 .....FAR BETTER RECORD....
OWNED, Sissy!
LOL, LOL, LOL.....
artisking1 2 months ago
@artisking1
Graf was 4-0 against Navi in her two best years 88/89. Navi was 31/33 years old.
Seles lost to Navi 4 times in the two years before the stabbing. Navi was 34/36 years old.
Says it all.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
Seles 10-7 Navratilova. Graf 9-9 Navratilova @Hoffenheim08
Says it all.
volvariella 2 months ago
@volvariella
1991-93 Seles vs. Navratilova 7-4
1987-89 Graf vs. Navratilova 6-2
So peak Seles had a worse record against Navi than peak Steffi.
Although Navi was 4 years older.
LOL
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
No. @Hoffenheim08
volvariella 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Sorry sissy! Looks like no one agrees with you!
hey, you can always post as another one of your lame Screen names, and talk to yourself some more!
artisking1 2 months ago
@volvariella
100% Correct....and martina played til she was 37, against opponents 13 and 17 years younger than her......
Graf? She retired at 29, terrified of the Williams sisters KILLING her....as Venus had already......
artisking1 2 months ago
@artisking1 Graf was a combined 4-3 against the Williams sisters, she could handle them.
lionheart007 2 months ago
@lionheart007
AWWWWW, look everyone! Sissy HOMOHoffie had ANOTHER new screen name!
Sorry Sissy, a sissy with another fake screen name is still....the same Sissy!
artisking1 2 months ago
@tarckbear Graf had a winning record against Seles from the time Seles became number one until she got stabbed. That is not including the matches pre-Seles becoming #1 and after the stabbing. I think you should consider that. Seles was a great player and would most likely have won more slams, but Graf was always the better of the two in my opinion. She was the better athlete, better all court player and more versatile.
And Graf's record is pretty impressive to me.
fong03 3 months ago
Steffi may have less weapons than Martina, but all Steffi's weapons are killers that leads to the head to head records between them are unbalanced.
beavertown2006 3 months ago
Martina always moved so well and did have power in her shots...I always wondered why she did not beef up her serve to stay at or near the top....I really believe she had more weapons and Steffi could not seem to hurt her at all except the matches she won when Martina was only 15...good match by two great champions of the game!!
bryguy0111 3 months ago
@bryguy0111
You are mistaken.
Over-the-hill Graf hurt 17-year-old Hingis in Philadelphia 1998 (won the last set with 6-0) and 18-year-old Hingis at the FO 1999 (made Hingis cry in public). Hingis won only one match against Steffi in that time, when Steffi was injured (in Tokyo 1999).
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
Deffinetely Martina is more talented and has more weapon to win than Steffi. Beside she is gorgeous.
cutechilean 5 months ago
@cutechilean
Yes, Martina had more weapons than Steffi. That's why at her peak she won 1 of 3 matches against an over-the-hill Steffi.
And why she won a staggering 5 slams while Steffi won only 22.
Hoffenheim08 4 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I'd say Hingis is one of those players that did really well for herself despite not having any real physical weapons, perhaps besides her backhand.
hrhsam 3 months ago
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volvariella 3 months ago
Hingis has all the weapons but she wasn't physically strong enough or aggressive-minded enough. She needs to work very hard like Justine if she wanted to succeed in power and speed game elevated by Williamses.
She depends on strategy, finesse and points construction, it's all thinking. She persisted that way in the era that favors athleticism. Hence she burnt out when she realized that those speedy power players surpassed her in most aspects and her tactics didn't work on them anymore.
volvariella 3 months ago
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volvariella 3 months ago
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Steffi might be feeling determined to win everytime she played Hingis. She was probably thinking "There's no way this pusher can beat me. What's so special about her game? She's smart indeed, but it doesn't bother me much. How come she is the current no. 1 while she's not in any way superior than me." :p :p :p
From her unsatisfied looking face after losing this match, it's like those who couldn't fathom why Hingis can beat them while the match (they think) was actually on their rackets. LOL
volvariella 3 months ago
martina lo gano de puro pedo porque a graf le cantaron unas cuantas bolas malas cuando en realidad eran buenas!!!!
asi cualquiera!!!
ivan19741974 6 months ago
Good to see Graf showing some emotion here.
forcemajeur08 6 months ago
Gosh, some of the comments in this thread perfectly illustrate the godwin principle... Steffi was a fantastic champion, but some of her fans are the most lunatic people unfortunately. I really hope she never reads these threads cos she would realize our many parche-like people she has among her "fans"... :(
juju1305 6 months ago
@juju1305 - I'm with you. I'm a Graf fan (still don't understand how she was able to produce the forehand with such a late, loopy backswing), but the comments on here are shameful.
HellField04 4 months ago
@HellField04 yes thay are, thanks for pointing it out. I'm amazed with her forehand. It's a timing marvel. I've tried to reproduce it in play, it's almost impossible to perform unless timing and movement is perfect. One has to give her credit for that. Now some of her fans are just terrible
juju1305 4 months ago
steffi still plays crazy tennis in this match.
lw416 6 months ago
Holy Christ.....Graf should NEVER wear her hair up. Wow. Not good......
Hingis is such a smart ass.....she really was a pin in the ass, but very cunning and funny.
artisking1 7 months ago
@artisking1
Steffi with her hair loos fantastic!
Maybe you are gay ... ?
Hoffenheim08 5 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Hey HOMOHoffie, how are you? Are you still posting under your other screenname. "GRafGirl"?
Do you want to be a woman? YOU SWEET BITCH YOU.....LOL, LOL, LOL.
artisking1 5 months ago
Hingis is a bitch. She shows no respect to Graf.
The black shit also a bitch. I think they are good friends.
beavertown2006 7 months ago
@beavertown2006 That 'black shit' as you call them is a 13-time grand slam champion and one of the best ever, you racist pig.
And also, Hingis is also one of the best of her generation, and she knows it, why should they bend over backwards to be so respectful to other former champions. They're just playing their games.
ehiga 7 months ago
@Sonsbitchesall then ur fucking blind! I get that u couldnt see the ball in the woz vs hingis vid but thats not my problem i just downloaded the match!! But the ball is visible in this. Oh and ur welcome!!
JamieOwen03 7 months ago 5
Can't even see the fucking ball. horrible.
Sonsbitchesall 7 months ago
Hingis showed off her awesome volleying skills here. She might have been eclipsed by her contemporaries, but she had this economy of movement and calmness of presence while pulling off the most difficult shots.
hrhsam 8 months ago
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hrhsam 8 months ago
Steffi looks like a mega bitch with that hairdo, and she was when she yelled at that line judge. Jesus woman, calm down
racketlord64 9 months ago
@racketlord64
I never see a great player who is not a mega bitch.
volvariella 8 months ago
@volvariella
Are you paid to post dumb things on YT?
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Is your sole purpose in life only to worship Steffi like a dutiful slave?
volvariella 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
And the only smart thing according to you is worshiping Steffi blindly. I highly doubt you ever ask another idiot like yourself and other Steffi minions before you ask me.
volvariella 8 months ago
@volvariella
There is a lot of room between worshipping Steffi blindly and calling her a mega bitch, you stupid girl.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Go fuck yourself, psycho.
volvariella 8 months ago
@volvariella
Why?
When I can thrash trash like you here on YT?
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
So don't complain about anything or anyone, just admit that you need banters to channel your inner Gunther Parche.
volvariella 8 months ago
@volvariella
Parche was a lunatic because he thought Steffi could not reach #1 again without his help.
Can you believei it!
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
It's unbelievable, even after that so many crazed fans secretly thanked Gunther in their hearts for stabbing Ms. Seles. Sicko.
volvariella 8 months ago
@volvariella
I wouldn't call Seles a "sicko".
Although is was a little bit fishy that she didn't play for more than 2 years and returned just after Peter Graf was jailed. Apparently Seles thought she could profit in a comparable way as back in 1990-92 when Steffi suffered from the blackmail scandal and Seles won a lot of slams.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Sicko is Gunther (and you), not Seles. Alright, I will stop as this is going off topic and this page is not another Graf/Seles talk waste dump. I have seen enough of your trolling at other pages and things will remain the same.
volvariella 8 months ago
@racketlord64
Steffi looked very nice with this hairdo.
And she definitely never was a "mega bitch", not even when she yelled at that line judge.
I don't remember that any other great player was called "classy" more often than her.
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Steffi is classy, but she's eternally a mega bitch to many people. Just suck it, I know it's hard for a die-hard slave like you.
volvariella 8 months ago
@volvariella
"Mega bitch" because she beat your faves again and again and again?
Well, live with it ...
Hoffenheim08 8 months ago
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volvariella 8 months ago
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@Hoffenheim08
As usual, you're no different than those narrow-minded lunatics out there who thinks it's all about winning and losing.
You don't have to tell me to live with it. It's you who have trouble accepting the fact that not everyone thinks about Steffi the same way like you, the eternal minion of the greatest mega bitch.
volvariella 8 months ago
Didnt' know Majola was actually this good! Makes me feel less bad knowing Hingis lost the French to her now.
greeneggs1111 9 months ago
courts are fast!!
darbocity 9 months ago
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graf is just the ultimate professional-cool and collected-its what sets her apart from evert and navratilova as the greatest ever-evert was cool and collected too but she was boring-graf just exudes class like no other tennis player has
lollipopdouche 10 months ago
graf is just the ultimate professional-cool and collected-its what sets her apart from evert and navratilova as the greatest ever-evert was cool and collected too but she was boring-graf just exudes vlass like no other tennis player has
lollipopdouche 10 months ago
@errolmiranda
I don't care about Hingis vs Graf and you can hate everyone all you want. Your crazed words rich of expletives said it all anyway.
Funny. You are a nobody but you know that detoxification method is not 100% effective to repel the cocaine. Yet you still think a top athlete like Hingis used a cocaine regularly and cleaned it using that risky method herself. What can I say about this simple thoughts of yours? Easier to say this nonsense than to do it.
volvariella 10 months ago
Graf looks like a nazi commander with that hairstyle and even more when she's yelling
DIANAROSS4EVER 10 months ago
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errolmiranda 11 months ago
Nonsense.
Lord knows how Graf conspired with Gunther to stab Monica and later with German authorities to release him afterward.
volvariella 10 months ago
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errolmiranda 11 months ago
love steffi`s slice b/hand...so decent
v3noms 11 months ago
Love watching these two play against each other. Thanks Jamie Owen for uploading this video!
Sagan8 11 months ago
Deserved to be the final
guypetch 11 months ago
So many delicious points here, god I love when Steffi plays Martina. Her dislike for Martina really shows when she nails winners, I love it!
Flipboy5 1 year ago
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@CO767224, "If Hingis plays Steffi with more patience I think she'd win more" Wrong, because no matter if Hingis had more patience or not against Graf, Graf was always too much for her. At the same time, Graf was the rare player who found out every type of player and had numerous plans (A, B, C) all the time, naturally.
lookscudkill 1 year ago
God I love Hingis!
sunnyscott13 1 year ago
Gee they really didn't like each other...
And this was before 1999 French Open.
Martina's got the same kit in this match as she did at 1999 Aus Open, but it then changes for Roland Garros.
Hard to believe she was just 18 years old here!! The best player under 20yrs currently in WTA is Pavlyuchenkova. Hingis here has already collected her 5 grand slams - phenomenal.
BTW, Martina made 8 Toray Pan Pacific Open finals in her career, and won it 5 times. Probably one of her best tournaments I'd say.
burdzelkrai 1 year ago
@burdzelkrai
Could have got a few more slams if she hadn't slacked around during 1998 and stayed humble.
volvariella 1 year ago
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Very rare to see Steffi lose her cool. Her body language gives an impression that she's not in a great frame of mind to play. Nevertheless the FO 1999 final was Graf at her best - unruffled and business-like in her approach. A very deserving victory (with a little help from Hingis, no doubt) that was sort of the beginning of the end for the Swiss.
sjalcapricorn 1 year ago
How in the hell was this a Quarter-final match and not even in a Grand Slam??? I guess Steffi's ranking slipped for being out with injuries in 1998. Too bad there weren't more maches between these two. I like the way they match up.
thadxxx 1 year ago
@thadxxx
Really great comment !!!
Bruppacher 1 year ago
@dinh had graf played 1997 fully healthy the way she had the previous two yrs-then the swiss miss wouldn't have won 3 slams that yr
lollipopdouche 1 year ago 4