Mormons Helping others? Giving humanitarian aid? How much?

[JediLDS]

Trust the uploader of the video to gloss over the important point of the video to and obsess over how much the money part.

[42apostate]

Shawn.

There was an article published in the Deseret News in 2006 that quoted LDS Public Affairs officer, who said that the LDS church, between1984 and 2006 had given 750 million in charitable donations in both "cash and goods". Some smart cookies (CPA's) did a forensic-style financial review (educated guess) of how much the LDS ch. had as income from all sources during that 22 year period and found that their "giving" amounted to less than 1% of income--yet THEY ask 10+% from their members!

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - Although this seems to b hearsay ( as no specific dates are given for the purported report), it sounds like the LDS Church still gives quite a lot of money. Of course coming from someone who calls himself 42apostate, it may very well be an invention or a blurry memory charged with ill and malicious intentions. I'd love to read the article, please provide the date. Otherwise it's pure folklore without credibility.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

It is also trumpeted around by Mormons that the LDS Church gives a huge amount of money to disaster relief and other causes (which no doubt it does --and no doubt that what they DO give is very much appreciated).

SO I WILL ASK YOU, alex, to provide US with the documentation backing up that LDS claim.

Otherwise it is "heresay", "charged with ill and malicious intentions", (OVER STATING truth for religious gains), as well as being "folklore" and TOTALLY WITHOUT "CREDIBILITY"!!

[Shulamitefire]

@Ingle92protege LDS is corporation with its big, fat ass plunked down on the seat of religion. Unlike the very vast majority of churches, LDS hierarchy refuse to be transparent with their financials, even to the members whose tithes they take. Mormons are the only ones we know of whose leadership do a regular shakedown of their members for their tithes. What did Jesus say about serving two masters, God & mammon.

[alexgomez2]

@Ingle92protege - Fact for you, if you know a little about Temple sealings (or you have heard Shawn talk about it), you should know that many women sealed themselves to Joseph and even to Brigham after they were dead. Do you know how many of those 33 really were known to Joseph? Or to Brigham? Does Shawn your holy prophet knows. Who is the dumb ignorant person here? You for quoting Shawn or him for making money by promoting speculation? I actually think Shawn is being smarter than you. Sorry!

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

SO, Alex. It's up to YOU, brother Gomez, to show, to demonstrate, to PROVE that Shawn's statement (LDS charity is microscopic compared to it's income) is a false statement.

Why don't you head on over to the Church Office Building and waltz right in to Prez Monsons office, show your Temple Recommend and then ask, VERY POLITELY, to see the LDS income from ALL sources, since 1984 to the present.

I predict, if you did so, you'd be asked, NOT VERY POLITELY, to get the hell out!!!

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - I think that you're the one trying to make a point with a ambiguous note. "I heard once this or that" "I read conce this or that." That's hearsay. You want to enable Shawn to attack the Church with basis, then provide him with credible references not hearsay . You know? His program is already made up of suppositions and half truths.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

You put in quotes ("I heard once this or that"). NOWHERE is that quote to be found in ANYTHING I said!

(Typical LDS dishonesty!)

I SAW the article with my OWN EYES!! So don't attempt to tell ME what I saw or didn't see!

Don't believe me? YOU can call LDS Public Affairs Office and ask for those numbers. They'll be GLAD to help you. As honest and transparent as the LDS Church is, you should have no trouble verifying my words!

Face it, brother Gomez. You don't WANT to know!

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - Sorry but, in this moment I may sound like those who make fun of Joseph Smith's Vision. He said he saw and yet many apostates and critics ridicule his account. Why should I or even Shawn just believe that you "SAW the article with my OWN EYES." [????] What I'm saying is that for Joseph would be much harder to produce a date than for you (of course it we are to believe it). So, if you want to help Shawn, give him the real info. Then he won't wonder as he always does. Hahahaha!

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

As I said already, if it's important to Shawn, he can take the info I provided and FIND the article. I'M not going to pay for it!! LOL!!!

I don't expect that you WOULD believe ANYTHING based on MY say so--in the same way that when you stand up in Fast and Testimony and state with tear-filled eyes that you "KNOW!, with EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING THAT...(fill in--whatever), that I can say the SAME THING about YOUR fabricated, heresay, horse s**t.

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - EVERYONE ATTENTION! Here Mr. 42apostate doesn't have a simple answer. Should we believe the information is true? I'd say . . . .NO. Thank you SIr! At least your honest.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

Your point IS, WHAT??

Well, at least you are thinking along the right lines--check out ALL facts and info. The problem here is that you are not aiming that legitimate demand for AUTHENTICATED and documented information in the right direction!

If you aimed your demands as strongly toward LDS Inc. as you have toward ME, I have no doubt you'd be OUT of Mormonism quicker than snot!! (IF you were a person of integrity!)

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - Again, I don't have to AUTHENTICATE anything. You brought the purported report to the conversation. If anyone was to provide AUTHENTICATION that would have been you. No worries. It probably didn't ever exist, but who cares. Thank you though. As I said the fact that either you don't want or cant produce such information leads me to believe that the information wasn't probably credible.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

That's true. YOU DON'T have to authenticate ANYTHING! (And you don't!) It is ALWAYS WE who must produce authentication.

That's known in our circles as an LDS DOUBLE STANDARD!!

If I WANTED to pay for the info you demand, I'd certainly accomodate. I don't--and WON'T. You now know where to go for the article. I've done my job--provided the source. The ball is in YOUR court. It's no skin off my pelotas if you choose not to follow up!--and you won't...oh well...

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

The simple minded are usually the ones that demand "simple answer(s)"!

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - I'd ask you not to be so cruel to Shawn. Thank you!

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

YOU are the only one, recently, that has demanded "simple answers". Shawn certainly didn't.

Some day someone WILL pay for that article and spread it around YouTube. When they do, I'll be sure that you get a copy of it.

Then what??? What will your cry be then? I would guess that the next boohoo for you would be simply to deny the article's existence--right in the face of it being placed before you in all it's glory!

But, then...what else is there for you to do, BUT deny?!?!

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate - Sorry pal, I didn´t demand anything I just called you to provide some evidence but you just can't. You should learn that if you're going to try to use something to help a cause, you'd better have it handy or not to mention it. It just makes you look bad. I tell you that when I use an article to prove anything I make sure I know where is that article and if possible or if necessary I show the source. That surely proves my point and gives me the credibility you don't have now.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

I gave you EXACTLY what you asked for--a PLACE to find the article--Church owned Deseret News.

This is what I ALWAYS try to do--give references. When I don't/can't, I SAY SO, as I did in my orig.statement and left everyone the option of following up on the info, THEMSELVES.

Shawn could have thrown out some numbers as if they were true (IF he were the liar you claim he is). He DIDN'T DO THAT!! He ADMITTED he didn't have the source nailed down.  I was trying to assist.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

AGAIN!!

IF I HAD presented you with the source AND the article, what would that have done for you?

I know EXACTLY what you'd have done!! You would have continued to lay down the blanket of denials, tho the evidence was right there in front of you.

Thanks for demonstrating the standard LDS dishonesty, alex!! Keep up the good work!!

And again--I wasn't talking to you in my orig. comment, was I? Why should I accomodate YOU? You somebody speshhhaaaalll?

[TheJpgr1958]

@42apostate "But, then...what else is there for you to do, BUT deny?!?" Don't forget the "you can't or do not want to understand" or "you should learn how to read better" tags he gives to anything/anyone who disagrees with him. You have pegged Gomez to the tee!! As a Mormon, that's all he can do. I do give him a little credit. He at least didn't play the anti-mormon card that all Mormons play. But if our conversation would have kept going, he would have thrown that out eventually.

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

You have to remember...that I was NOT TALKING TO YOU!!!! I was addressing Shawn BY NAME!! HE's the one that'll decide if it's worth a follow-up, NOT YOU. I already know that you'd brush it off as you do every other point we bring up by blanketly calling it "lies" and "heresay", etc, etc.

Admit it!  There is no evidence in existence that would convince you to leave Moism! I felt the same way at one point. The moral of MY story is "NEVER SAY NEVER"!--as you will find out too...

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

There was a homeless guy in the news here in Utah just 2 days ago, that wanted to talk to Prez Monson. The cops were called and the man was hauled off to jail.

As I remember reading in the New Testament, this is EXACTLY what Jesus did to all those many followers of his that were pestering the hell out of Him? Right? Ohhh...so He DIDN'T do that??  I guess the Mormons misinterpreted that story of Jesus and they DO forceably get rid of followers by charging them with "stalking"!

[alexgomez2]

@42apostate-Yes, I read the article. Obviously a man whose nickname is "Jesus Christ" must be in his right mind to think that he can just drop by and talk to a man who deals with the needs of the conglomerate population of Los Angeles. Some critics say that he should have stopped everything and go and talk to the man. Something else, nobody knows if Pres. Monson even knew about the man who, BTW has a criminal record. 42apostate, even Jesus said that we'd always have the poor among us, right?

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

"By their WORKS shall they be known"!

Seems to me that a church that is willing to spend 3-4 BILLION dollars on a mall in SLC ought to be giving a corresponding 3-4 BILLION to do the work Jesus charged his TRUE apostles with, of "feeding the poor and clothing the needy"! 3-4 billion dollars would vitually WIPE OUT disease in Africa by providing pottable water to 100s of 1000s of people in desperate need of clean water! But NO! The needs of the affluent in SLC is more important!

[42apostate]

@alexgomez2

Are you using that Jesus quote "always have the poor among us" as an EXCUSE to only give less than 1% of LDS income to the "poor"?

As far as citations go; I DID a search of the Deseret News on the article in question. 15 possibilities came up--but I would have had to PAY to acccess the DN archives. If Shawn (or YOU) want to pay for that article, FEEL FREE to do so. I WON'T! I gave Shawn (AND YOU) enough info on the article (dates and key words)

enabling YOU/HE to find it.

[42apostate]

@42apostate

Suppose you DID decide to find the article, and suppose that it was EXACTLY as I described it.

How would it change your life??

My guess is that IT WOULD DO NOTHING!! So, what IS your true purpose of challenging me on this--if it means nothing to you? Is it to try to get me bogged down in trivia so that I spend less time challenging

Mormonism?? I rather think that is EXACTLY the trick you're trying to pull off here!

Sorry! It AIN'T WORKING!

[alexgomez2]

@Ingle92protege - Bigot? Why? What truths? What facts? Shawn doesn't present ONE single fact, he just cuestions what he obviously doesn't know how to answer. Does he say how much does the Church receive? No! Does he say what's the ration? No! So what are you talking about?

[RahabtheJerichonite]

@Ingle92protege It's very very sad, isn't it. Instead of researching truths for ourselves, all tooo often, we allow our spiritual leaders to just lead us around by the nose. And yet we were told to be wise as serpents. And be a good Berean to study to see if what your spiritual leader is saying is true. Think of all the denominations that would "disappear" if people would just follow the instructions within the ONE Holy Book. God bless you! :-)

[sidewalksynthesizer]

@VictorLepanto To use your term, it may be "SEEN" as Macchiavellian, but it is not. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are encouraged to provide service that is anonymous or only known between the giver and receiver as the Savior commanded: "Let not thy right hand knoweth what thy left hand doeth."

The official reps of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Presiding Bishopric, etc., publicize donations and humanitarian aid not to brag, but to inform.

[TheJpgr1958]

@kaliemarie89 "I will not argue with anyone that chooses to leave an ugly remark." Then you shouldn't argue with Joe Smith because he stated that all church's were wrong, an abomination, and corrupt. Isn't that an "ugly remark?" 

[sidewalksynthesizer]

@TheJpgr1958 Please reread your material. Joseph Smith didn't say that. Jesus Christ did and Joseph Smith recorded it. Furthermore, note the following explanation given by Jesus to the Prophet Joseph Smith regarding why all the churches at that time were wrong: "The Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight, that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me..." Also see Isaiah 29:13

[TheJpgr1958]

@sidewalksynthesizer "Le sigh." First, the Jesus that you as a Mormon believe in, is not the Jesus of the Bible. So whatever allegedly appeared to Smith was false to begin with. Second, there a several versions of this alleged first vision. Third, the church didn't go into a COMPLETE apostasy. Yes there were some who did, but not as a whole. And fourth, the Mormo church is no different than a JW, Roman Catholic, Oneness Pentecostal, The Way International, Islam etc. All of you suffer...

[sidewalksynthesizer]

@TheJpgr1958 "Le sigh" is Amerifrench I guess. 1st, please back up your claim that the Jesus I believe is not the Jesus of the Bible. 2nd, there are several versions because Joseph Smith addressed different audiences. 3rd, The core of Jesus original church where the authority resides did break up into apostasy. I agree that through the "Dark Ages", there were those who sought for truth. 4th, Please explain what you mean by no different and what you mean by "all of you suffer".

[sidewalksynthesizer]

@TheJpgr1958 "Le sigh" is Amerifrench I guess. 1st, please back up your claim that the Jesus I believe is not the Jesus of the Bible. 2nd, there are several versions because Joseph Smith addressed different audiences. 3rd, The core of Jesus original church where the authority resides did break up into apostasy. I agree that through the "Dark Ages", there were those who sought for truth. 4th, Please explain what you mean by no different and what you mean by "all of you suffer". Do you suffer?

[42apostate]

@sidewalksynthesizer

Oh! So Joseph had a different version of "tuth" to share depending on who his audience was???

It's STILL dishonest, no matter the excuses made for it!

"Be honest in your dealings" applies to YOU peons but leadership can say and do what they please that is NOT honest! Is THAT the way Mormonism works??

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - Please explain how the Jesus I believe in is different to that in the Bible and then help me understand how there wasn't a "COMPLETE" apostasy. Honestly this is the first time I hear a non-Catholic deny the historical reality of the apostasy. Also I'm going to ad one more question, if Luther and other excommunicated priests initiated the protestantism now called Evangelical Christianity, did they have the ability to ordain others? What authority did they have? I'd love to hear.

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 I've been trying to refrain from discussing things on youtube because I believe it's rather futile to do so. However, I will suggest you looking and studying these passages of scripture which demonstrates that a COMPLETE apostasy, or a complete falling away of the entire Christian church, which is the main point, could not have occurred. Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 3:21, Ephesians 4:11-16, 1 Peter 1:25, Matthew 18:20, 1 Timothy 4:1

[TheJpgr1958]

from what I like to call the "True Church Syndrome." You all state the exact same thing, that your particular leader was called of God to restore the church, or he/she speaks to God and is the only one who can, etc.,and that all other churches have partial truth, but if you want the WHOLE truth, you must belong to your particular group. So from your response, all you would have to do is exchange the name Smith for Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the JWs, and it would be the same.

[TheJpgr1958]

And one could go down the list, Mohammed, Mary Baker Eddy, Sun Yung Moon, Thomas and Alexander Campbell, the list goes on. So please, stop thinking that what you are claiming is unique and truthful only to you as a Mormon, for other cults state the exact same thing as you do.

[TheJpgr1958]

@sidewalksynthesizer "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go."

[TheJpgr1958]

@sidewalksynthesizer That remark from your false prophet is from (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409). It just proves that Smith was a arrogent, narcissistic fool, who had allusions of grandeur, as do all Mormons. So if this is the kind of leader you believe that God used to restore the church, have at it. But you will never be called. nor considered a Christian in the Biblical sense. So go on and believe that you will become a god with your own planet and have never ending sex.

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - No, that's just a truthful and outspoken remark. If that offends you then I wonder how'd you feel if you'd had been a pharisee in Jesus times. And BTW you should read within the context. Do you know what churches did the Lord told Joseph Smith about? I don't think you know. Sorry, your remark demonstrates ignorance at most.

[TheJpgr1958]

@kaliemarie89 "I am very grateful that I was fortunate enough to have been babtised into the "whole" gospel." This comment demonstrates exactly how a Mormon does believe they are better than others. You claim to be the only true church that have the WHOLE gospel. The problem is a Roman Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Muslim, Moonies, and other groups, all state and claim that exact same thing!! There is nothing unique, no matter how hard you try to deny it, in what you state.

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - You're wrong. The fact that LDS people believe we have the entire truth doesn't make us better, but the opposite. Shawn has called the LDS faith the "impossible Gospel" why? Because very few would subject themselves to trying to live as the Gospel teaches. Some people suffer when they pour a couple of pennies having plenty, I don't talk about the widow's mite, but those who pay alms. LDS pay tithing (10% of their earnings), certainly impossible for many. Mt. 7:14. Better?

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "The fact that LDS people believe we have the entire truth doesn't make us better, but the opposite." Once again, the point I was making was that you as a Mormon, claiming to be THE true church, is NOT unique to you. All the groups I mentioned before, Roman Catholics, JWS, Moonies, Oneness Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Islam, etc, make the same claim you do, and all of them do believe they have a superiority over others. What part of this do you not understand?

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - Right! The Church is true but the membership is human. My point is that it humbles us to know that the Gospel in its entirety is at our reach. You'd also think so if you were to believe everything we LDS believe. We feel blessed and privileged and that's why we are missionaries to the world so that everyone can feel equally blessed. Of course if they want. Do you?

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 We feel blessed and privileged and that's why we are missionaries to the world so that everyone can feel equally blessed." And again, this is exactly what a JW would state. NOTING UNIQUE, One more time, because the LDS church donates money does not make it the true church. Please state your understand!!!

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "The Church is true but the membership is human." Wow. If one would take that to it's logical conclusion, then people who belong to the JWS, Roman Catholicism, Moonies, Islam, etc, are not human. Only the LDS church has membership that is human, according to you.

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 As for the rest of your comment, my friend, it's all been answered for you, but you as a Mormon, will defend your church to the death, just like a Roman Catholic, JW, etc. will. Just because the LDS church gives money means bupkis (nothing), for all the other groups I mentioned, who all claim the exact same thing that the LDS church does, donates money as well. The LDS church does not have the corner on Christianity, even though you have been taught that. I do hope this explains it.

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - And you're totally right on that. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not true because it gives money. But just because it's true. I think that not even Shawn says that. so I don't know where you got that from. Your mistake not mine, not Shawn's not even the Church's. YOURS ONLY!

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "And you're totally right on that. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not true because it gives money. But just because it's true." The last part of your comment is just your opinion, just as a JW, Roman Catholic, Islam, Moonie... It means nothing. It's just your opinion. Again, this is why having discussions on youtube is so futile, but yet here I am. Oh well!!

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - The fact that you read and but don't seem to understand demonstrates you either don't understand English OR you just don't want to understand.

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "The fact that you read and but don't seem to understand demonstrates you either don't understand English OR you just don't want to understand." That's it? Is this the best you have to offer in the way of response to me? Where are the exegetical comments from you concerning the passages I asked you to look at. See, this is why trying to have a discussion on youtube is simple futile. One can make assertions like the one you gave me and then can just leave the comment board. Oh well!!

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - Yes, I guess this is the best answer I can provide at your level of understanding. Sorry!

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "Yes, I guess this is the best answer I can provide at your level of understanding. Sorry!" Your arrogance really shines through with that comment. I bet though if you were in a REAL debate, one with a moderator, timed presentations, cross examination... in other words, a real scholastic debate, you would never state what you stated to me nor anyone for that matter. And this is the reason why youtube is not the best place to have this kind of discussion.

[TheJpgr1958]

@TheJpgr1958 By the way, where are the exegetical comments about the passages I cited to you as prove that there was not a COMPLETE apostasy of the Christian church, or did you even bother to look at them?

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - Scholastic??? Sorry to hurt your feeling friend. That's all I can say. If you want answers please refer to those I already provide and see if you can understand. AMEN>

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 So you didn't even look at the passages I cited as prove that there was not a TOTAL apostasy. I figured as much. Just a word of advice. Don't ever try to engage yourself in a REAL debate as the one I described to you before. Just stay on the internet where you are safe behind your keyboard, where you don't have to look at someone in the face and state the things you have stated to me to them directly. You woud never last in a REAL debate. GO GO GO Gomez!!

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - Sure! REAL debate??? In what world? Man please don't waste my time anymore. This is mi final answer. Next time you can make a video. Probably we can see your real ability to articulate your points. So far I just don't see it and the fact that you just go around and around, asking the same questions in different manners as to confuse, is just irritating. There is only one truth and thats infallible. If you refuse understanding it it ONLY your problem, not mine. So long!

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 Nice cop out there Gomez. I ask you to exegete the passages I cited you to show that the Bible speak about SOME falling away, but not the entire Christian church, and what do you provide us with as an answer? An assertion that I don't or want to understand. Boy oh boy, good one there Gomez. Again, stay behind your keyboard where you are safe to state these things. Now run along and prepare to become a god with your own planet. Also don't confuse one of your wives with Mohammed's! BYE

[Alvosploio]

賛美イエシュア！

[Alvosploio]

賛美イエシュア！

[RahabtheJerichonite]

@Ingle92protege And yet it's the Salvation Army where the people line up after a major disastor, or even if living in poverty. Sorry, LDS aren't always the first one's there because the Salvation Army already lives there. :-D

[alexgomez2]

@RahabtheJerichonite - Your info is wrong. The Church has an ample representation in every place the Salvation Army is and if they are there good for them and good for the LDS Church that provides a great deal of support.

[RahabtheJerichonite]

@alexgomez2 The difference between the LDS and the Salvation Army is, tho, HUGE. First, LDS is NOT living downtown, big city Haiti feeding the poor daily even when not experiencing a disaster. The Salvation Army is. the LDS do NOT allow all who are willing to enter into their "sacred Temple", whereas the Salvation Army invites ALL to hear the Word of YHWH in the sinful state they are in. For while we were YET still sinners, Christ died for us. Never forget that.

[alexgomez2]

@RahabtheJerichonite - Dear friend, if the Salvation Army doesn't invite into their temple is because they don't have a Temple like the LDS Church does and BTW, we don't preach in the Temples, that's why we have chapels present everywhere. If you tell mw where you live I'll be happy to get you the address and I assure you nobody will kick you out. As far as the LDS being in Haiti you don't know that, sorry, but you don't. As organization we know what we do but you don't. Shawn doesn't either.

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 Here is your arrogent, narcissistic false prophet Smith, blowing smoke from a certain part of his anatomy. If this is the guy that you have chosen to follow as being the restorer of the gospel, go for it. So believe that you will become a god and have never ending sex with your many wives, populating your own planet. But Mormons will never ever be considered Christians in the true biblical sense, no matter how much charity work you do.

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - And I insist, you guys don't know how to maintain a focused conversation. Tell me what denomination you suscribe to and I'll tell you at least a name I can critizise as you find it easy to critizise Joseph Smith, but I think we're talking about contributions, charity and ratios. I can tell you about Joseph Smith and his take on charity, do you want me too? Unless you don't understand what focussed conversation mean. Do you?

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "you guys don't know how to maintain a focused conversation." Uh no, it's that you don't know, or can't read properly. "Tell me what denomination you suscribe to" It wouldn't matter, for all church's are wrong, an abomination, and corrupt, according to the Mormon church. As for the rest of your comment, it's been answered. But keep believing Joe, for remember, you are going to become a god, and have never ending celestial sex with your many wives. Go Gomez!!!

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - Dear friend, allow me to be cynical for a second and let us suppose that the Gospel as the LDS believe it were as simplistic as you present it. What part would you not like: Being a God? Inheriting Eternal Life? Or even having eternal sex with many wives? Please illustrate me. Again IF (and I emphasize IF) the LDS were that simplistic what of those three thing you´d despise most and why?

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "Please illustrate me." What I will illustrate is that Mormonism is just one of many groups who all claim to be the true church. Groups such as JWS, Roman Catholics, Islam, Oneness Pentecostals, Church and Disciples of Christ, The Way International, etc., all claim that their particular leader was called, spoken to, receives messages, is the only one with the authority to speak etc, for/from God, and that if one wants to have the WHOLE gospel, one must be in that particular group.

[TheJpgr1958]

One of the ways a groups gets it's members is by giving them incentives which were/are revealed/received to their leader. So for you, Smith was told by God that he was going to be used to restore the gospel, and that if you obey all the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church, all Mormon males can become a god, receive their own planet, and pro-create sprit children by having never ending sex for all eternity with their many wives which were sealed to them in the temple.

[TheJpgr1958]

How can any hetero sexual male not see anything enticing in that concept. Islam, which pre-dates Mormonism by several centuries, had the same concept, revealed to, you guessed it, THEIR leader, Mohammed. So what the Mormon church states about what they teach is not unique. It's been stated many times before, since, and is still being stated today by many groups. As I stated before, Mormon missionaries have cited to me as prove that the Mormon church must be true because of all the...

[TheJpgr1958]

charity work they do. I respond to them, as others have done to you here, that MANY groups, all claiming to be the true church do that very thing. So THEY must be the true church. So this is why your argument in favor of Mormonism for your church to be true is, to put it bluntly, is bogus. So if you want to maintain that Mormonism ius true, you have every right to be believe that. I don't think any one would disagree with that. However, you will NEVER be considered a true Christian...

[TheJpgr1958]

in the true Biblical sense, for Mormonsim, even though they utilize Christian terminology, have poured different meanings into those words. And it all comes back to a person wanting to believe that THEIR particular leader, in your case Smith, was called of God etc. I don't know how to make it clearer. I just hope that God, by His mercy, will open your eyes to this fact. You won't become a god, you won't be having eternal sex, and you won't be having spirit children. So charity away all you want.

[carcabe]

If you are leading people to hell doesn't matter if you give every last dime of yours to those in need.

[alexgomez2]

@carcabe - I totally agree. Did you hear that Shawn? Well said friend!

[bekkyshambles]

@kaliemarie89 Ad hominem arguments. Fresh.

[alexgomez2]

Shawn doesn't know the story where a man questions a child who painstakingly strives to through every starfish he find on the beach back into the ocean. When the man asks what difference will he make as there are millions "to save", the child throws one more into the ocean and wisely reponds "it surely made a difference to that one". Two years ago there was a horrible earthquake in Ica, Peru. Thousends still remember the "little help" the LDS Church gave them. It surely made a difference to them

[bekkyshambles]

@alexgomez2 Sure, fine, they do charity work. Big deal. So does every religious organisation. Doesn't excuse all the lies, deception, and ruined lives. That's the point Shawn is making. If you watched the show and knew the context of what he's saying you'd understand. Loads of people call in and say to him, "what about all the good the LDS do?" So what!!? Anyone can do good deeds with one hand and steal with the other.

[alexgomez2]

@bekkyshambles - I have watched the show, that's why I comment. One thing you don't understand is that no matter how many people call, he still has the switch so, he's all ways be able to out source everyone because he has the power to give himself the last word. Now Bekkyshambles what does your comment have to do with whether the charitable work of the Church is enough have to do with anything? How much money you make and what's the percentage you give back or what about him? Please lead us!

[bekkyshambles]

@alexgomez2 Firstly, it's not my job to lead you; are you some kind of pathetic sheep? Secondly, I would respond, however your comment lacks the grammatical structure and cohesion required to comprehend your question. Perhaps if you spent less time making ludicrous ad hominem arguments, and more time examining your belief system, we wouldn't be having this laughable conversation.

[alexgomez2]

@bekkyshambles - I'm not an English major but for that matter, while others seem to have a better understanding of my poor language skills (English is my third language), you don't seem to have that ability to read into the question. Your job is not you lead me then don't try to do it in the first place with your remark totally unrelated to my original comment. You want to LEAD into a different discussion while I'm trying to to the opposite. Answer then the direct question. What say ye?

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 Just because the Mormon church helps others, does not make them the true church as you as a Mormon believe. Other groups such as the Roman Catholic Church, Oneness Pentecostal, the Moonies, The Jehovah Witnesses, plus a slew of others do the exact same thing. And like the Mormons church, they all suffer from the true church syndrome. There is nothing unique in what you as a Mormon believe or claim. Perhaps try another route because this argument fails big time.

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958 - I thought the discussion here was about contributions not about truthfulness. That's in a different video. Stick to the point or bail out. Don't try the Bekkyshambles technique. It doesn't work with me.BTW, believe it or not we don't have a syndrome, we ARE the true Church. But again, that's for a different video and conversation. Just focus, don't be like your buddy I barely mentioned.

[bekkyshambles]

@alexgomez2 The "Bekkyshambles technique"? That's awesome, I'm claiming it. The technique is that I don't IGNORE ALL THE EVIL DONE BY AN INSTITUTION as though the charitable works they do are some kind of justification. The fruit may look shiny on the outside but it's rotten to the core!

[alexgomez2]

@bekkyshambles - Yes, you should be happy I named a very widespread "technique" to your name. When someone runs out of argument, they just try to change the subject or bring a distraction. Let me bring you an example. What would you say, being apparently an anti-pornography advocate for what I see in your page, that pornography is really art, after all the great painters abound in nude art, correct? Then I distract you into defining art instead of focusing into what's pornography. This they do.

[bekkyshambles]

@alexgomez2 *Le sigh* Stop whinging and start examining your belief system. My "big picture" argument is not a detraction, rather an encompassing of all the relevant issues. If you were to do the same thing with porn you'd look at objectification of women on a grand scale throughout culture and society. Now run along.

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 "I thought the discussion here was about contributions not about truthfulness." Then you need to talk to missionaries who come knocking on my door, for they use that argument as prove that the LDS church is true. Better training perhaps? "believe it or not we don't have a syndrome, we ARE the true Church." Spoken as a true Roman Catholic, uh, I mean Jehovah Witness, uh, no I mean a Moonie, uh, no I meant to say Muslim, umm....what are you again? You could pass for them you know.

[alexgomez2]

@TheJpgr1958-I thought we were talking about Shawn's comment, not about the missionaries' comments. Boy you guys don't know how to focus on a conversation. Do the rest of religious and non-religious organizations do charitable work? Goodness, of course! I've not yet said they don't but does Shawn talk about the Bill & Linda Gates Foundation? No, or the Rockefeller Foundation? No! He is trying to diminish the charitable contributions of the LDS Church and I sense you want to take part in it too!

[TheJpgr1958]

@alexgomez2 My friend, stop and think for a moment. LDS missionaries have stated to me that because the LDS church helps people, that this is one reason why they are the true, and the only true church. I"m just pointing out to you that this is complete nonsense, for other groups, who also claim to be the true church, do that exact same thing. There is nothing unique in what you are stating. That is why you can pass for JW, Roman Catholic, Moonie, Oneness Pentecostal, etc. Understand now?

[bekkyshambles]

@alexgomez2 I say that's not a direct question at all. Stop wasting my time and go examine your belief system, because it's seriously messed up.

[alexgomez2]

@bekkyshambles I'm sorry but you called me into the conversation and to flee in that manner only reflects the truth, you're one more blind follower of the blind. It's because I've examined my beliefs that I've been LDS for 35 years and counting. I'm not a renegade like Shawn or others who leave the Church when they're immature teens. I was baptized at 13 and every day I renew my personal knowledge and testimony. I tell you that by doing what I do more people open their eyes to the true Church.

[crowofdeath2]

@alexgomez2 hello alex my names alex :) i would like to have an in depth convo with you over privet message would you be up to that?

[alexgomez2]

@crowofdeath2 - Sure. I´d love to. Thanks for the invitation. Yet, why do you want to keep it private? Wouldn't be better for everyone in this conversation to see what our in depth "convo"?

[crowofdeath2]

@alexgomez2 i wouldnt mind people seeing it but the only reason that would be is so people could see who has the upper hand and im not into that kind of thing and theres really only so deep of a convo you can have with 500 characters or less :/

[alexgomez2]

@bekkyshambles - Thank you for at least admitting. That takes guts, although in a beligerant way but appreciated anyway.

[testskriftene]

@alexgomez2 Thats not the point. The point is that the LDS church paint a picture of themselves as someone who gives so much to charity.... But in % - its like Bill Gates giving 100 dollars to charity.

+ remember what Jesus told to the apostles of the rich people who gave, and the poor woman who gave....

[alexgomez2]

@testskriftene - You should know that in terms of resources money it not the only thing the Church gives. It's organization allows for entire congregations to provide immediate assistance which not even the US Government has been able to provide at the speed and accuracy as the Church is able to. I'd love Shawn or you to put a price tag to the equipment, man hours, etc and compare percentage wise who does a greater good. Shaw should also declare his income and the percentage he gives back. Fair?

[RahabtheJerichonite]

@alexgomez2 The Salvation Army provides more immediate assistant to people WORLDWIDE than LDS. No one, whether in Haiti or New Orleans or in some obscure place we've never heard of, is more in the center truly helping people in the midst of disaster or whether in daily poverty. Many people in LDS get richer and richer while members of the Salvation Army live in the same poverty as those they support while non-LDS people are prohibited from entering the Temple (presence of God). It's disgusting.

[alexgomez2]

@RahabtheJerichonite - You're probably right. The speed is disputable but probable, however you should inquire if the LDS Church isn't a large contributor. You'll be happyly surprised it is! As far as the reason why the LDS people get richer and richer you should read the promises given to those who pay tithing. Malachi 8:10-12. There Jehova's promise doesn't go to the LDS but to those who with faith will pay tithing. The promise's holds true because the Lord has spoken it. Do you prefer Shawn?

[alexgomez2]

@alexgomez2 Sorry, I must correct myself you Bible readers. It's Malachi 3: 8-12. Malachi only has four chapters.

[RahabtheJerichonite]

@alexgomez2 "for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need" Acts 4:34-34 This, the Salvation Army does. This the LDS does NOT. I prefer Shawn, but above all, I prefer the True Gospel as written in the Holy Bible and denounce ALL other works that do NOT line up with Scripture, like the Book of Mormon for example. I pray you have eyes to see.

[alexgomez2]

@RahabtheJerichonite - So you mean that you know for fact that the Salvation Army doesn't posses ANYTHING nor it's members. OK, I'll research that. I guess you know that for sure. As far as Shawn you be sure you check ALL his facts not only those you have like him to check. If I were you I'd start doing a serious follow up on Shawn's videos. I really would. But I'm going to investigate to know if the SA has or no properties OK?

[VictorLepanto]

This is classic: You can find it in Macchiavelli. It is important to be SEEN being generous. Give away what would seem to others to be a large sum. Let many people see you. Each person will recount it seperately & thus appearance of generousity will be multiplied in multiple retailings. Each account of generousity will seem like a seperate act of generousity. None-the-less, be stingy in reality. Mainly only give to those who can enrich you far more. If you can, give away other's money.

[jayhawk88z]

there a corporation