I used to know a guy who was one of the railroad's investigators of this crash. I thought he told me they didn't check their brakes before they went down, and I guess I partially remembered that right.
At the Tehachapi Loop in CA, there's a white cross at the top of the hill that pays the respect and honor of the train crew and those who were in the neighborhood that lost their lives. Also, another memorial site by a AT&SF (BNSF) employee who placed crosses where a train derailed at Cajon Summit. Two train crew members were killed; one was injured.
To tell you if i had the money i would build a garden and put a stone peace there marking the day when disaster happend both the train crash and the gas exsplosion.
Thanks for sharing Bill, This is great! They have a video; for all that remember. Now in 2011 , we all can see what you went through. Sorry you were part of a sickening clean-up job.God was in a plan to give you an enlighten of what life is all about . Short & helping other. We are here to be an encourager to one another. God wants us to show how much he cares. God does not make this happen but He does allow it to happen .This war is between Satan & God not us. Praises to God you are here.
What do they mean no monument exists to mark the accident? They erected a silver overturned shopping cart to symbolize the chaotic swath of twisted metal that trapped survivors below. I doubt that monument was just put there by some bum.
From what i know the potash co overloaded those cars and that caused the brakes to overheat with the grade involved, when brakes overheat its like having no brakes at all and the kentic energy takes over, Its simple physics, Even if the dynamic brakes were working on all the units, It still would have been a runaway, Short heavy trains are the most difficult to control on heavy grades..
@derail14 the cars were not overloaded. if this had been the american verison, you would have leard that the cars were filled to their compasidy. (200,000lb) but when the car were deliverd to the rail yard with no weight the yard master assumed that they onky had 120,000lb.
@tom201090 Locos run with dynamics cut out all the time. FRA allows locos to run for 30 days without dynamics. I agree that its messed up, but it happens.
There is a monument in Tehachapi Loop for the two railroaders, its known as The Cross at the Loop. I am not aware of any other monuments related to the incident.
The fuel in the pipeline wasn't natural gas, it was gasoline, hence the "weird rain"
Just keep in mind that all of this was 20 years ago. Train-handling rules have changed in regards to running on Cajon and technology has improved, EP brakes, DPUs, better dynamics, etc. Even with all this, they still have runaways.
And the communications. That's ghastly. Where was the dispatcher? There's only one? There ought to be standardized reportings, the engineer asks for status, and should get a full report, not just "Yeah, they're in."
What's with the program identifying the pipeline contents as "fuel"? Why couldn't they say high pressure natural gas? Even one of the interviewees said that; makes one wonder how scripted the replies were.
I cannot believe they don't have some kind of feedback on the dynamic brakes. One would think that there would be a set of red/green idiot lights that indicate that some minimal braking is in effect for each of the engines, if not an actual force figure. This was 1989; PCs were available for 8 years. Even some analog feedback system should have been available. The air brake system would be harder to do, but there ought to be something possible. Does the engineer have a checklist?
@puncheex locos display the dynamic power as tractive effort on a monitor screen. older DC units have a ammeter that shows tha amperage the motors are generating during dynamic braking
@ackmino: Yes, they certainly should have. Even at that date they should have developed some sort of scheme for sending that information to the lead locomotive. I sat through classes on the practical use of digital signaling in the early 70s. I suppose that is what the brakeman in engine 3 was for, but if so, it was too little, too late.
@puncheex the sad thing is that today the maintainence on locos is getting worse as the railroads become more corporate. We used to spend five days on one unit for its six month date, now it has been reduced to a day and a half. Corporate america wants to see numbers! They will pencile whip anything to get the machine on the rails making money.
Brakes on engines not working, safety valves not functioning - probably not installed. Just like BP failing to install remote control shut off valves on Deepwater Horizon, companies recklessly cutting corners on safety equals disaster.
honestly, a mountain with train tracks going downhill, the curve in the track at the bottom, and having it right in the middle of a small city? it was a mistake waiting to happen. I couldn't blame anyone though. tragedy's like these are always bound to happen.
Avoidable. Normal companies have checklists and procedures for things like checking the brakes before going down a mountain. In this case, the lead engineer heard from the tail end engineer that his brakes were "OK", but didn't know that he meant "OK, as the dispatcher noted, half my dynamic brakes are out". He **assumed** the lead engineer already knew that. Chemical plants, high voltage workers, airlines and other railroads call-out and acknowledge checks to prevent exactly that problem.
@34randomAA sure it is avoidable, but money making companies are money making companies. locos make a lot of money on the rails hauling and they are run till the wheels fall off. still today one loco in each train is allowed to have no dynamic braking and FRA allows 30 days to have the dynamics repaired
it's so sad that there's not even a monument! at least with that new people comming to the town would find out more easily coz lets face it "a rain once crashed here" doesn't come up in normal conversation! and so they'd know and may not make a mistake which could cost them greatly in another similar crash if there ever was one!
also! those people DIED and had no warning in life. they never got to say "goodbye" it's not fair that there's not even a monument for them.
The Southern Pacific co. erected a monument at Tehachapi to the brakeman and conductor of the train. It's a white cross at the top of Tehachapi loop, and a marker stone next to a bench beside the loop.
There should be a monument, but not to alert people who may be moving in that there was once a train crash. People should do a little research before they move somewhere.
Boy o boy filling in guested weights on wagons what duffer
fincasandaluciablog 3 months ago
there were many mistakes made that led to this accident
noslack1964 4 months ago
The anniversaries of this rail disaster occur on my birthday
mikeshearer1250 4 months ago
I used to know a guy who was one of the railroad's investigators of this crash. I thought he told me they didn't check their brakes before they went down, and I guess I partially remembered that right.
randommagnum 5 months ago
It is not surprising that this disaster had happened if it was carrying a weight equivilent of that of 6 jumbo jets
murakwan29 5 months ago 3
At the Tehachapi Loop in CA, there's a white cross at the top of the hill that pays the respect and honor of the train crew and those who were in the neighborhood that lost their lives. Also, another memorial site by a AT&SF (BNSF) employee who placed crosses where a train derailed at Cajon Summit. Two train crew members were killed; one was injured.
jmm2000 6 months ago
To tell you if i had the money i would build a garden and put a stone peace there marking the day when disaster happend both the train crash and the gas exsplosion.
mattstorm360 6 months ago
Thanks for sharing Bill, This is great! They have a video; for all that remember. Now in 2011 , we all can see what you went through. Sorry you were part of a sickening clean-up job.God was in a plan to give you an enlighten of what life is all about . Short & helping other. We are here to be an encourager to one another. God wants us to show how much he cares. God does not make this happen but He does allow it to happen .This war is between Satan & God not us. Praises to God you are here.
sweetpea027 9 months ago
What do they mean no monument exists to mark the accident? They erected a silver overturned shopping cart to symbolize the chaotic swath of twisted metal that trapped survivors below. I doubt that monument was just put there by some bum.
gobo760 10 months ago
From what i know the potash co overloaded those cars and that caused the brakes to overheat with the grade involved, when brakes overheat its like having no brakes at all and the kentic energy takes over, Its simple physics, Even if the dynamic brakes were working on all the units, It still would have been a runaway, Short heavy trains are the most difficult to control on heavy grades..
derail14 1 year ago
@derail14 the cars were not overloaded. if this had been the american verison, you would have leard that the cars were filled to their compasidy. (200,000lb) but when the car were deliverd to the rail yard with no weight the yard master assumed that they onky had 120,000lb.
sajdrj 11 months ago
@derail14 Yep, you are correct. Every train needs at least 12 locos with dynamics to operate lol
ackmino 10 months ago
I can't believe South Pacific did not check that the all the engineers/train crew knew that 3 out 6 (?) locomotives were functioning. RIP
tom201090 1 year ago
@tom201090 Locos run with dynamics cut out all the time. FRA allows locos to run for 30 days without dynamics. I agree that its messed up, but it happens.
ackmino 10 months ago
Are there anymore mayday episodes like this that dont investigate the usual plane crash ?
rome877 1 year ago
@rome877 There is at least one: "Head on Collision." Maybe there's more.
Sanderus 1 year ago
@Sanderus There's another one, Collision Course, about the MV Express Samina sinking
Lengas32 11 months ago
There is a monument in Tehachapi Loop for the two railroaders, its known as The Cross at the Loop. I am not aware of any other monuments related to the incident.
The fuel in the pipeline wasn't natural gas, it was gasoline, hence the "weird rain"
Just keep in mind that all of this was 20 years ago. Train-handling rules have changed in regards to running on Cajon and technology has improved, EP brakes, DPUs, better dynamics, etc. Even with all this, they still have runaways.
dodgeramb59 1 year ago
i see a monument...the fuckin broke down shopping cart...wow cant wait to move there
jerbearthegr8one 1 year ago
maybe these fucking idiots will learn how to do a job correctly instead of just trying to get to the next check.
jerbearthegr8one 1 year ago
Jeez, im glad that 2/3 of Southern Pacific trains and employees dont work properly
acenace24 1 year ago
And the communications. That's ghastly. Where was the dispatcher? There's only one? There ought to be standardized reportings, the engineer asks for status, and should get a full report, not just "Yeah, they're in."
What's with the program identifying the pipeline contents as "fuel"? Why couldn't they say high pressure natural gas? Even one of the interviewees said that; makes one wonder how scripted the replies were.
puncheex 1 year ago
I cannot believe they don't have some kind of feedback on the dynamic brakes. One would think that there would be a set of red/green idiot lights that indicate that some minimal braking is in effect for each of the engines, if not an actual force figure. This was 1989; PCs were available for 8 years. Even some analog feedback system should have been available. The air brake system would be harder to do, but there ought to be something possible. Does the engineer have a checklist?
puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex locos display the dynamic power as tractive effort on a monitor screen. older DC units have a ammeter that shows tha amperage the motors are generating during dynamic braking
ackmino 1 year ago
@ackmino: Yes, they certainly should have. Even at that date they should have developed some sort of scheme for sending that information to the lead locomotive. I sat through classes on the practical use of digital signaling in the early 70s. I suppose that is what the brakeman in engine 3 was for, but if so, it was too little, too late.
puncheex 1 year ago
@puncheex the sad thing is that today the maintainence on locos is getting worse as the railroads become more corporate. We used to spend five days on one unit for its six month date, now it has been reduced to a day and a half. Corporate america wants to see numbers! They will pencile whip anything to get the machine on the rails making money.
ackmino 1 year ago
Brakes on engines not working, safety valves not functioning - probably not installed. Just like BP failing to install remote control shut off valves on Deepwater Horizon, companies recklessly cutting corners on safety equals disaster.
LaszloPanaflex 1 year ago
honestly, a mountain with train tracks going downhill, the curve in the track at the bottom, and having it right in the middle of a small city? it was a mistake waiting to happen. I couldn't blame anyone though. tragedy's like these are always bound to happen.
queenmurderr 1 year ago
Yeah good for the people who put THAT down the hill geez.
Couldn't they have dialled up Lake Minerals before letting the southbound down the sub?
admydragon 2 years ago
2:37-2:44 SAME Crash From Part 2
mrtrainboy019 2 years ago
Avoidable. Normal companies have checklists and procedures for things like checking the brakes before going down a mountain. In this case, the lead engineer heard from the tail end engineer that his brakes were "OK", but didn't know that he meant "OK, as the dispatcher noted, half my dynamic brakes are out". He **assumed** the lead engineer already knew that. Chemical plants, high voltage workers, airlines and other railroads call-out and acknowledge checks to prevent exactly that problem.
34randomAA 2 years ago
@34randomAA sure it is avoidable, but money making companies are money making companies. locos make a lot of money on the rails hauling and they are run till the wheels fall off. still today one loco in each train is allowed to have no dynamic braking and FRA allows 30 days to have the dynamics repaired
ackmino 1 year ago
it's so sad that there's not even a monument! at least with that new people comming to the town would find out more easily coz lets face it "a rain once crashed here" doesn't come up in normal conversation! and so they'd know and may not make a mistake which could cost them greatly in another similar crash if there ever was one!
also! those people DIED and had no warning in life. they never got to say "goodbye" it's not fair that there's not even a monument for them.
budgiebreder 2 years ago 14
The Southern Pacific co. erected a monument at Tehachapi to the brakeman and conductor of the train. It's a white cross at the top of Tehachapi loop, and a marker stone next to a bench beside the loop.
Look up "The Cross at the Loop"
cwr56 2 years ago
that's good. i hope no one forgets and people continue to learn from this tragedy
budgiebreder 2 years ago
Yep in 1990.
SSW8040 2 years ago
They also payed all the familys who's houses got destroyed enough money to buy a new house.
And even funeral expenses
Espeelover 2 years ago
@Espeelover: Oh, and I imagine somewhat more than that.
puncheex 1 year ago
There should be a monument, but not to alert people who may be moving in that there was once a train crash. People should do a little research before they move somewhere.
qwerty112311 2 years ago
glad the engineer didn't get sued He didn't do anything wrong!
runawayfreak 2 years ago 37
@runawayfreak: He was a bit complacent, but he was following precedent. Unfortunately precedent wasn't anywhere near safe.
puncheex 1 year ago