I am so glad this information is here. @ books that have have an invaluable amount of information: Do-it-yourself Shiatsu by a Shiatsu master named OHashi. The other: Chinese Medicine, many Paths To Wholeness by Misha Ruth Cohen.Oh yes, and 1 more: Reflexology: The definitive guide for the practitioner, by Beryl Crane. Thank you for posting this awesome video!
"For Believers no proof is necessary. For Skeptics no amount of proof is enough."
I think it is best NOT to be either.
Healthy debate is great. If you want to ask tough legitimate questions and be open to the answers that is awesome. I think we are all responsible for the sense of community that is at the moment this video. SkeptiTroll/JPRichardson refuses to act with dignity. Maybe if this community holds him accountable he will be nicer to his friends and family.
MemphisInternalArts, you are well spoken. Thank you for the quote. I plan on writing it down and taping it to my moniter. Also, thank you sincerely for posting this video, and others. JPRichardson, thank you for the robust comments to keep everyone thinking deeply, and researching.
My biggest question to the people that belive "Acupuncture has been proven uneffective to treat any kind of illness" is: Where did you see that? If it was in a medical journal or some sort of legitimate source of medical information, then I would understand you're skeptisism, but from what I hear "real doctors" have actually began to work WITH Chinese medicine to aid in the treatment of many diseases. Hmm... I wonder why "real doctors" would do that if it was all a load of BS?
You can check my comments below for references on studies which clearly demonstrate acupuncture does not work. And if you think it for a minute, it should be acupuncturists who should scientifically demonstrate their practice is of any use, not the other way around. BRING THE PROOFS! Really, read my comments below. There is a lot of information there.
First of all any smart American people would know if it can't be explain scientifically ,it doesn't mean it can't work, for me I tried Acupuncture 2 years old from uncle because I couldn't feel parts of my foot for over 1 and half years do to a surgey.now i don't have total feeling back, but I can feel where i couldn't before
If you knew just a bit about science you would know personal accounts are completely useless and absurd as proof of anything. Go see a real doctor NOW!! Yo may have a serious health problem which will NOT be cured by this quackery.
Acupuncture has been proved uneffective to treat any kind of human illness, from pain to cancer. It doesn't matter if it looks safe (which it is NOT) or if practicioners present you with "technichal" details on how it works. If you are sick, go visit a real doctor.
The Gate theory of pain is discussed in great detail in Misha's book.For all those interested in educating yourselves,
there is an immense amount of educational material available to you.TheAmericanCollege ofTraditionalChinese Medicine is one example of a school for learning.You must have 90 credits of recommended classes prior to even being enrolled.For people interested in bull baiting, and fussiness,I recommend that you seek an accredited acupuncturist to reduce your need to create discord.
Why would the Real Doctors at UCLA med school have their own program if acupuncture had no merit? Is your "expertise" on the subject much more in depth than the medical doctors that attend the program as well as the medical doctors teaching the program? What about the medical doctors that refer patients to me? I don't recall you saying that you had any medical training. Do you know even more than them?
Other great books to educate yourself with include "Reflexology: The Definitive Practitioner's Manual"which is approved by the International Therapy Examination Council for Students and Practitioners" by Beryl Crane. Google Wyeth pharmaceuticals, or simply the words Du and or Ren for some specific descriptions of the various "electrical lines" of the body's meridians. It is a great way to honor the old adage, "KNOW THYSELF."
That is a VERY valid assessment. Thank you for pointing that out. I think what you have stated illustrates clearly the importance of experiencing things for ourselves and making decisions based on our own personal experiences with these and other therapies.
Anyone who has studied physiology(even through the most basic high school course)knows that the human body is electro-chemical. I think most de-bunkers are people who have not studied this seriously. Also, I recommend that people who are trying to stay healthy and productive educate themselves about emerging technology involving radio frequencies, and audio spotlight(sub verbal communication research)in case they might be sensitive to these issues.
Thanks for posting this. I also learned a great deal about this subject from 2 excellent books. One titled,"Chinese Medicine, Many Paths To Wholeness"by Misha Ruth Cohen, and "Do-it-yourself Shiatsu"by Ohashi. Both books give very specific and helpful information on problems or issues with the Du and Ren channels of the body's Meridians. Misha's book is inspired by Chinese Medicine. Ohashi's book is inspired by Shiatsu(Japanese Massage therapy). Btw, your video is awesome, thanks for posting it.
Yesterday out of shear curiosity I clicked on a spanish language acupuncture video. And guess who I saw trashing it in Spanish...You. Then I thought "what does else does he comment on" and went to your very interesting playlists. You have an interesting habit of calling people "stupid" and "pathetic". Your behavior by definition is trolling. I have broken the cardinal rule in dealing with trolls and that is to ignore them.
whenever you want to reach me, please answer over my messages. i can't come back to call you names if you simply write messages dedicated to me without advise. By the way, science has demonstrated acupuncture does not work. Charlatan.
Science HAS demonstrated that acupuncture affects the body. Please see the scientific studies already provided. The only problem that I have with you is that you are rude and mean spirited. I pointed out the other posts of yours to prove a pattern. Disagreement is healthy. I welcome it. Treating people poorly is unacceptable. I am merely trying to hold you accountable for your behavior. I and my patients know I do good work. You are unimportant.
Inserting needles in the body does affect you, of course. Unfortunately, there is no healing consequence from such practice. It does nothing to improve your health.
JAMA 284 (4): 483--5 Here is an article in one of the most prestigious medical journals in the Western World. It reports on research that states MD'S KILL 250,000 patients a year due to medication errors, unnecessary surgeries, etc. How's that for safe and reliable JP?
Iatrogeny exists, of course. But trying to invalidate the medical science with such a poor argument is... blatantly... STUPID! Acupuncture does not work. I don't need any "credentials" to see quackery, it is called CRITICAL THINKING.
Listen to me very clearly: when you get really sick, you better end up visiting a real doctor or else...
Last but not least, I am not trolling or spamming, I am only answering comments they send directly to me.
Listen to me clearly TROLL, is it your skills of critical thinking that dismisses the Yale/M.I.T./UCLA/Harvard studies I provided as irrelevant? You do not have the credentials or enough knowledge to have a critical relevant conversation about Traditional Chinese Medicine. At the least you are a bully calling people stupid, idiot, quack etc. from the safety of your keyboard. Would you talk to anyone face to face like that?! I doubt it!! Take a hike Troll. Go piss in someone else's sandbox.
You have posted more comments than I, that should make you a TROLL. I have not dismissed any studies; actually I am still waiting for references of independent, double blind, scientific studies which prove any of acupuncture's multiple crazy claims:
a) Existence of Qi
b) Existence of Yin & Yang
c) Existence of meridians
d) Possibility of balancing Yin and Yang by inserting needles in the body
e) Correlation between human illnesses and an imbalance of Yin and Yang
And please, stop your "anonymus" diatribe. 99.99 % of youtube users are anonymous (including YOU!), and still some of them are intelligent enough to discuss topics using intelligent reasoning. I can't find any of that in you, so please, just ignore me.
If you Google Ren or Du channel, you will get a definition of the Meridians from Wyeth pharmacuticals. I wonder why a company like that would bother with researching "Mystical rituals?"
Here's the picture: a few thousand years before it was known that blood circulates or germs cause disease, doctors who had never dissected a frog, claimed that yin and yang could be balanced by inserting needles into the right points, among the hundreds of points strung along 12 meridians....Scientists suggest the needles stimulate release of endorphins. Jalapeno peppers do the same thing. So it wouldn't matter where you stick the needles would it? Then who needs an acupuncturist?
Lol, so true. I guess a jalepeno wouldn't be as good a placebo as a several thousand year old mystical ritual. Not to mention placebos work better if they are over priced and administered in official-looking settings.
If all one believes in is crude matter then acupuncture sounds foolish. It takes time to understand there is more to life than bones, skin, blood and nerves. There is a flow of energy that science cannot quantify. You joke about 2800 years ago and ignorance but what you lack in understanding is in those times people studied things much longer than average people do today. Energy is quite real and can be sensed by a person who knows what they are looking for. I was once skeptical too.
SIMPLE- you stick needles in and it helps to circulate blood. OF COURSE ENERGY IS REAL EVERYBODY. What's with all this mystical shit. I suppose it could be mystical- especially combined witn taiji and Qigong.... The worldview of the Chinese 2800 yrs ago (and everyone else) was different than us moderns.
My personal suggestion is that when you feel sick, you better look for orthodox, scientific, medical advice. That's all I say. Accupuncture has failed to prove any kind of efficiency in treating several different illnesses again and again, starting with pain. It is stupid for people to seek "alternative" cures to ailments which can be treated an cured by scientific medicine.
The FDA has approved acupuncture as a legitimate treatment modality whose efficacy is based on solid research. Eating a jalepeno pepper is also akin to being exposed to an irritant, which is what causes the body to release endorphins in an attempt to counteract the burn of a jalepeno. Hardly a comparison.
The FDA has also approve homeopathy as a legitimate treatment...because there are no ill side effects. The FDA has also approved putting magnets on your ears and putting stickers on your feet as a "legitimate" treatment. The FDA is in place to insure a drug isn't harmful, not to insure it actually works.
memphis I think your just upset that your whole life is a lie and always has been and your clinging on to the only thing left in your life that you think is real, and thats why your fighting to the end with this dumb argument. come on man its ok you can give in, apparently you think martial arts work too? you have alot to learn about life
JPRichardson since you are not going away and seem to feel qualified to comment on the science surrounding acupuncture research please post a link to your CV or resume. And perhaps give us a short history of your academic credentials including any classes about how to structure a research study or actual research that you have been involved in.
Why, oh why, would I have to justify my "qualifications" in order to discuss QUACKERY??? It is acupuncturists who need to demonstrate their claims and "qualifications". You need not to believe my word, I fully understand people like you will not easily change their minds about their beliefs, that is until a dear one dies because of your ignorance. That is exactly the reason why I am referring to studies made by CERTIFIED SCIENTISTS which fully demonstrate how stupid and harmful acupuncture is.
I thought you would cop out. Also, Harvard,MIT, And Yale scientists are not certified!!?? I guess after 2000+ years, the oldest body of written medical knowledge on the planet, and millions of people helped daily are all just people like myself - unwilling to change their beliefs. We are so ignorant that we just keep coming back century after century after century.
You may now have the last word at whatever comment you have to say against acupuncture quackery or me. Peace be with you.
How the hell can accupuncture be harmful? It can be painful, at it's worst- for people with tight muscles or fused bones. I don't understand how it could be harmful. Unless your Dr's drunk, which is a possibility.
I live in Taiwan and TCM clinics are everywhere. It's not "alternative" here and is coverd by National Health Insurance. As common as Western med. here. The Dr's are CERTAINLY qualified. But, some may be better technicians than others. My Dr's generousity of spirit inspires me. If I'm not mistaken, TC Dr's on the Mainland China need 7yrs. of University to be certified.
That explains your belief in quackery. Acupuncture will not turn into actual medicine just because TCM "clinics" abound or because you say so. Get away from TCM, its dangerous and your health will NOT improve. At the end, you WILL go visit a real doctor when you are seriously ill.
I am still waiting for references on scientific studies which validate acupuntures claims: a) existance of Qi b) existance of yin & yang c) existance of meridians d)ability to balance these "bodily forces" in order to cure diseases.
Even more scientific evidence showing acupuncture is pure fiction:
- White A and others. Adverse events following acupuncture: Prospective surgery of 32,000 consultations with doctors and physiotherapists. BMJ 323:485-486, 2001.
More, scientific proof acupuncture is pure quackery:
- Streitberger K and others. Acupuncture compared to placebo-acupuncture for postoperative nausea and vomiting prophylaxis: A randomised placebo-controlled patient and observer blind trial. Anesthesia 59:142-149, 2004.
- Kalauokalani D and others. Acupuncture for chronic low back pain: Diagnosis and treatment patterns among acupuncturists evaluating the same patient. Southern Medical Journal 94:486-492, 2001.
When you claim inserting needles in your body will cure you from a certain illness, it is quackery. It is harmful because it prevents ill people from getting serious medical treatment. Also, cases of punctured lungs and other organs and infections are not rare. You can read all my posts below on the topic.
One is totally free to seek Western medical treatment while using Chinese methods. How could it prevent "serious medical treatment"? It's complimentary to almost anything. Enough.
I agree only partially in that people are responsible for wasting their time and money in "alternative" medicine. Quackery always relies on people's naiveness and ignorance, but it is still a crime involving human lifes.
People reading this Trolls comments should know that he refuses to man up and post his academic credentials. He has no real knowledge of alternative medicine. The question remains if you don't like acupuncture why have you spent the last year jumping on everyone posting comments on this video?
hey dummy your posting a an artical about this doctor who agrees with you, HOW BOUT THE 500 doctors that disaggree call bullshit?? which ones are right the ones who have found no real properties of heal involved or some doctor who finds increased blood flow lol lol, f.uckin dicklicker go play make believe doctor with your acupuncter needles.
and jing jing, they havent prooved anything!! INCREASED BLOOD FLOW DOES NOT PROVE ANYTHING, Idiot!
Thanks for the mature, insightful and colorful commentary. Keep up the good work.
Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Where are the scientific studies of the 500 doctors you site that say acupuncture doesn't work? Do your scientific credentials provide you the necessary skill base to analyze the research of the team of Yale physicians concluding that acupuncture affects the limbic system? Can you respond without writing like an angry teenager!
JPRichardson makes a very good point about endorphines being released when needles are inserted into the body, yes this does happen endorphines are released, the same thing happens when a limb is chopped off the body it releases endorphines to the area in which the pain is occuring, it is a natural defense mechanism in the body, so then instead of getting acupuncter why not go cut a finger off to rel;ease endorphins into the body, or you know a better Idea go buy some oxycontin
JPRichardson is right! TCM or chinese medicine in every aspect has been proven to be a plecebo effect, how bout torchering innocent moon bears for bile, in other words bear puke, what a healing agent, TCM is a discrace anyone who buys into it is just plain stupid
Perhaps you should consider Premarin. It is a drug that is harvested from PREgnant MARe uRINe. The horse is impregnated, confined to collect the urine and then the horse is killed. The urine is then served up to millions upon millions of women throughout the world. Would you not agree that this is an even greater disgrace? Are the women that buy this western med stupid? Do you consider the whole of western medicine invalid now?
did you see any acupuncture for hyperthermia?.. or tuberculosis?.. or even AIDS? yeah sure endorphines doesn't heal anything.. but it lessens the aggreviation of a state.. and becomes the precursor to the body's positive or negative feedback.. ugh duh...
part two: and the dermatome also the dermatomal.. is the chart where the dorsal roots (bet you don't even know what it is unless you check it up on the internet)the main innervation leads to the sense receptors in the body, includes the pain receptors... ugh.. duh... go study.. that's just one scientific back up how acupuncture really works.. want more?..
What JPRichardson would have us believe is that China, USof A, Britan and many other countries are licensing people to commit fraud against accupuncture paitence. If it doesnt work then why do I have to have a license from the state to practice on people? What you want me to believe is that dozens of governments and a couple Billion people have all been frauded by accupuncture....I dont beleive everyone in every gov. is that incompetant.
Being registered doesn't make accupuncture any more effective. Burglars are also registered by governments. Also, the fact that millions try accupuncture does not make it any more real. When you're really sick, you will end up with a real doctor.
My entire point is you think TCM doctors are not doctors. I can see your indoctrination...read as brain washing worked.
and its not registration. its LICENSEING. there is a major difference between registering someone on parole and having to take a test to get a license. Your logic is flawed
Well, you understood right. Accupuncturists are NOT doctors. And please direct me to the governmental authority who validates and license accupuncturists in USA.
correct not all accupuncturists are doctors of traditional chinese medicine, but they are still required by every state in the US to pass a test to be certified to practice in the State. The seperate states of the USA require the licensing not the Federal Gov. What is it that makes you think a western doctor is better than a doctor of TCM?
mapping all the energy circuits in the body isnt scientific? I and Albert Einstein disagree with you. TCM works on a quantum level to create change to the physical body. Western medicine works only on the physical level. E=MC squared. tells us that all matter comes from energy, so working on the energetic level is actually the most efficient. And who said people cant go to both kinds of doctors?
OK, so Einstein validated accupuncture and inserting needles into your body is "working at a quantum level". That's it. Good luck with your happy pseudoscience, Mother Earth charlatan.
Accupuncture doesn't work. Discussing this further only shows your ignorance. Just reading your arguments to defend these charlatans make me laugh really hard. Show me one serious, independent study that demonstrate accupuncture cures anything. Show me a study that demonstrates the existance of "meridians". Show me, please.
It most certainly does work. I had headaches for years, with the left side of my head swelling at times 1 treatment I was cured. this compared to going to western doctors for years with no reults.
there have been 10s of thousands of documented research programs done on accupuncture, in china and the western world
Show me ONE of those serious, INDEPENDENT, scientific investigations. Show me proof of the existance of chi, yin and yang, or meridians. Show me how it works. Show me it actually works on any kind of illment. I can show you documents that prove it DOESN'T work any better than placebo (check National Council Against Health Fraud for examples).
No matter what "proof" anyone offers you its clear you would deny it. your attitude of disbelief makes that clear. However if you do want proof then learn some Qi Gong and learn to fell it yourself. Do tell us thou where does this NCAHF get its funding? Could it be the western doctors and drug companies? who would loose money?
No I wont post any cos you would just deny anything. a clouded mind sees nothing. you have already made up your mind that it doesnt work. I am just currious as to why? or should I say what is your motivation....whos paying you to post negative comments about accupuncture?
Nobody pays me anything. I just can't stand people getting hurt out of stupidity and ignorance. People needs to be more critical when making decisions concerning important topics, such as health. Fact is accupuncture does not work. Why is people encouraging others to "give it a try"?
Probably cos they realize western medicine is not the great white hope it was made out to beleive. Western doctors want lif long paitents plain and simple.
Again it does work. have you presonally found it doesnt work? did you have a treatment with an open mind? When I had my treatments I went in with an open mind not believeing it would work so no placebo effect there, guess what I experienced? IT WORKS! that doesnt mean it will work on everything all the time but nothing does that.
Come on, illustrate me a little about the "scientific explanations and findings" there are concerning acupuncture.. Come on, I am waiting. refer me to ONE SINGLE scientific, double blind study which proves does any better than placebo. I am waiting.
the gate control theory go check it up in any medical books.. maybe you're not medically oriented well it's like this the pricking of the needles causes endorphines (natural pain killers in the body) to be released.. yeah that is supported by science and not like any placebo effect would do.. maybe some would exaggerate it but believe me.. it has findings... pls.. don't even try
Here's the picture: a few thousand years before it was known that blood circulates or germs cause disease, doctors who had never dissected a frog, claimed that yin and yang could be balanced by inserting needles into the right points, among the hundreds of points strung along 12 meridians... Scientists suggest the needles stimulate release of endorphins. Jalapeno peppers do the same thing. So it wouldn't matter where you stick the needles would it? Then who needs an acupuncturist?
too bad your reasoning's of course.. tsk tsk.. look at this way dermatomal chart.. go check it up again.. it's a map of the nerve roots where the pain effectors are located and guess what.. they based it on the sites where those pressure points you were talking bout... oh and btw.. instead of proving us wrong.. prove us that your right give us proof that it erally doesn't exist...
Sorry man, but it is acupuncture and every other "alternative treatment" that needs to be proven right. I al ready gave references as to studies that prove it wrong, and I hate to repeat myself. I don't mean to change your particular opinion on acupuncture, but to prevent a really ill person to replace medical treatment with this nonsense. Acupuncture doesn't work, it has been demonstrated over and over again.
muttergeos right there is no use reasoning with an unreasonable mind, clouded, stingy... oh yeah uhmm. you could do it yourself you know.. without a license but you need one to do it to others.. that's why they need the license.. and bad people take advantage by making one.. LICEnse license license.. sure it says.. "hey look at me i know how to do this" but impliedly (common sense) you need one to do service to others...
I debate because I care. Just to show some respect I will answer your "arguments" one by one:
1) Endorphines: the body response to pain is the release of endorphines. It doesn't really matter whether the pain comes from eating Tabasco sauce, sticking needles in your body or receiving a kick in the groin. It also makes no difference where the pain is located. Therefore, endorphines cannot have any possible relation with the alleged curative properties of acupuncture.
I can't believe you are still crashing this video. Check this out. I asked you to research this months ago but you continue to grind your axe. You are like the monkey who gets caught because he refuses to let go of the coconut. I will a bit of the article.
Abass Alavi, M.D., chief of nuclear medicine at the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center showed that acupuncture affects the flow of blood in the brain. He used SPECT to view the brains of four people with pain and five pain-free people who served as the control group. Dr. Alavi found that after
acupuncture needles were inserted, all of the patients had increased blood flow to the thalamus.
JPRichardson here is another study. Copy and paste this into Google to read the article. Now if you refuse to listen to Yale MD's discussing the effects of acupuncture then there is nothing any one do for you.
THE EFFECT OF GENERAL ANESTHESIA IN ACUPUNCTURE
STIMULATION: A FUNCTIONAL MRI STUDY
Dana Weiss, R. Todd Constable, Zeev Kain, and Shu-Ming Wang. Dept. of
Anesthesiology, Yale School of Medicine, New Haven, CT
You must be really stupid. The study you just asked me to check has this really unrelevant conclusion: "We found significant differences in brain f-MRI images when comparing acupuncture while awake to acupuncture given under propofol general anesthesia."
So, inserting needles in the body of a human being produces a certain brain stimulation. Well, kicking you in the ass also produces a similar stimulation. This study proves nothing. Accupuncture doesn't work and you are ignorant.
You asked for one study that said acupuncture affected the body and I supplied two. I will offer you some truth from my life experience. I have been in your place before taking my anger out on everyone. Looking back I am ashamed at some of the things I said and did to hurt my friends, family, school brothers, and even random strangers. All I can do now is minimize the amount of time that I am an asshole and instead try to help others.I hope you find peace in your heart.
No, man. I asked for ONE SINGLE INDEPENDENT, DOUBLE BLIND STUDY that proves acupuncture WORKS. There is nothing like that. To correspond to your kindness, I ask you to google and read the following article (abstract should be enough): Effect of Acupuncture on Nausea of Pregnancy: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
BEATRICE KNIGHT, MSc, RM, CATHERINE MUDGE, RGN, RM, ADM, LicAc, SHEILA OPENSHAW, PhD, RGN, ADRIAN WHITE, MA, BM and ANNA HART, MA, MSc.
I hate to break it to you but it is impossible to do a double blind study with acupuncture. How can you do the study when the patient and the person inserting the needle without both knowing what's going on? This is why much research has moved toward using diagnostic equipment like MRI.
Please Google: "Is acupuncture effective for the treatment of chronic pain? A systematic review.Ezzo J, Berman B, Hadhazy VA, Jadad AR, Lao L, Singh BB."
No time? Let me quote the abstract:
"We conclude there is limited evidence that acupuncture is more effective than no treatment for chronic pain; and inconclusive evidence that acupuncture is more effective than placebo, sham acupuncture or standard care."
A Three-Armed Randomized Trial A total of 320 primary care practitioners and 1007 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee participated in this 26-week randomized trial. The proportion of patients achieving the primary end point (>36% improvement on a standardized measure of pain and function) was 53.1% for traditional Chinese acupuncture, 51.0% for sham acupuncture (blinded comparison), and 29.1% for medical treatment (nonblinded comparisons).
2)The "gate control theory" refers exclusively to PAIN, while acupuncturists claim to be able to cure you from almost anything, from smoking to cancer. Moreover, the gate control theory is just an effort to explain the brain involvement in the condition of pain, and as far as I know no acupuncturist is trying to insert needles in your brain (although you never know).
3) The dermatome chart (not "dermatomal"): I don't even understand why you bring it to the discussion, since this another proof that acupuncture is pure quackery. A dermatomic area is simply an area of the skin that is supplied by a single pari of dorsal roots. If compare a dermatomal chart with a traditional chinese acupuncture chart you will notice immediately they have NOTHING in common. There is no anatomical or histological basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians.
part one:...ugh.. contrary endorphines does a lot to your body... read it up again.. and connect it with other phenomenon in the body.. your just looking at one picture.. duh.. Gate control theory of pain explains how endorphines process..
I think you can't read. We are not discussing the function of endorphines. We are discussing whether a bodily (healing) response to acupuncture actually exists. While it is true endorphines are released as a response to inserting needles into your body, this is the same response you get to any kind of pain. Therefore, it doesn't really matter where you insert a needle. And, of course, endorphine is not known for healing any kind of disease.
By the way, your personal, individual account, as you must understand, is no better proof of anything than a guy saying he is able to bring rain to town by chanting a particular song. Which doesn't mean you or the singing guy are dishonest, it just mean you are falling on a "post hoc" fallacy.
Oh gee I guess you got me. those dozens of Universities in a communist country are just a fallacy. yea the communists always allow fraud to go on thats why they put to death their X head of their food and drug administration!
i think its stupid ppl dont beleive theres energy in us thats plain fuckin retarded if we didnt have energy than how the fuck would we be alive u dumbasses
there will always be people who are afraid of things that are out of their realm of understanding. for someone to understand the benefits of this practice they must first understand there is an inherent energy in their body that is an extension of the the energy that is exists all around us.
i had a friend who did it and swears it works wonders. i would do it if i could afford to, might help me more than western medicine. then, i will also try ayurvedic medicine, i hear its good for somethings too.
I viewed acupuncture with some degree of sketicism until my wife decided to take our dog in for some treatments to see if it would help his arthritis. It helped quite dramatically. His legs/hind quarters used to tremble and now they don't. Just because we don't understand why it works doesn't mean that it can't. There are lots of things we don't understand in medicine yet. Search for "spencer's acupuncture" on youtube to see a video of our dog getting treated, or click on my username.
am not against the chinese culture or anyone who believes in it .. just doesnt make sense to me at all, am a scientist and this is not based on any scientific facts besides i believe many diseases can be transmitted through this practice and even further injury can occur from those needles .. but then again our knowledge is so limited and this might be proven effective in the coming years!!
Acupuncture is very effective for many people. I've been getting it and giving it for almost 15 years and have personally experienced (and received) many treatments that prove to me that it works. I can't explain it from a western scientific standpoint. I just know that it works from experience as a patient and a practitioner. The amazing thing is that it works on animals. Not sure how the placebo effect can be explained with animals.
"Not sure how the placebo effect can be explained with animals."
It can't be explained in terms of animals, because your dog can't talk. However, it can still be the placebo effect for you. You, the human (the one susceptible to bias), are still the one making the judgment call on whether or not your dog feels better.
there are plenty... but i do not do research. there are people in the western medicine community, and have heard of some work by physicists that you may like. good luck in your search
in the coming years? are you kidding? it has already been proven over the last 5000. not to mention, it was not too long ago that a doctor was locked up, for claiming there were "little unseen creatures" on surgical equipment that caused illness after surgery! years later we call those little creatures.. germs.
Well. Yea, but I can cite papers about germs and I can show you some under a microscope.
Personally I've never seen evidence of the kind of 'energy pathways' that acupuncturists seem to talk vaguely about. I haven't really researched it tho, so I can't really say much other than that it sounds like pseudoscience to me.
Again, if you can point me to a name or a study or two, it would be interesting to read.
you didn't know that there is more to human life than a beating heart? you have never heard of "the will to live?" really? interesting.. yet, it can't be measured.. or view under a microscope. just because tcm doesn't fit into what you know, doesn't mean its vague, or pseudoscience. and since scientific theory is being proven and disproven every couple of years, its odd to hear you want to pick apart something you don't understand
I'm not trying to pick it apart. I just want confirmation. The contortions you are going into to avoid citing anything is pretty suspicious tho.
Additionally, "the will to live" appears to come from the human mind, and you can show experimentally that states of mind correspond with brain chemistry, suggesting a strong correlation. I'm just asking for similar from acupuncture.
Also, which scientific theory is 'proven and disproven' every couple of years?
can you point to air? before you bring in your microscope... can you point to an electron? no.. but you can point to things that react to an electron to verify it is there.. right? well.. same thing
"can you point to air? before you bring in your microscope... can you point to an electron? no.. but you can point to things that react to an electron to verify it is there.. right?"
You're absolutely right. You can point to experiments that verify electrons. Which experiment was it that showed acupuncture conclusively? Who did the study? Who did the write up? I really would like to read it.
wow... your mind is very closed. you call yourself a scientist? not likely.
how much proof would you like? i am sorry if you can not see it. i truly am.. but that is on you, and nobody else. the truth is all around. you choose not to see... and for that, i am truly sorry. talk to people, read more, talk to any martial arts practioner, or a physicist....
well buddy, sorry, i dont think there is anything that can convince you... buy hey, i can show you studies that say viox is safe, and phen phen, and advil, and splenda, and.. and... and... but would you believe it still? guess you just go with what ever the latest study can "prove" to you huh?
Nothing can convince me? Why don't you let me be the judge of that? You yourself referenced experiments or studies that could show the existence of electrons. There are studies that you can perform that will show the effects of viox (even if some side effects aren't safe, we can still determine its effects). All I'm looking for is something similar for acupuncture.
Don't tell me that nothing will convince me before you even try to show me a single thing.
Very nice treatment, It shows an acupuncturist with good knolage of the human body, in responce to JP Richadsons uneducated comments below, to study traditional Chinses medicine you must pass 4 years of western medical scince which covers level 7 (degree level) cell chemistry, blood circulation, nerve function, and the hormones and organ systems and all the substances which is why it is covered by insurence at the same level as many other western therapies.
...and accupuncture does kill,my friend, by preventing seriously ill people from receiving proper treatment to their ailments. Of course, most acupuncture practitioners and supporting organizations only keep record of the "successful" cases. Besides, there have been cases of lung and bladder punctures, allergic reactions and infections. Oh, yes, acupuncture kills.
hmm... sounds like some one has a chip on their shoulder! wow!
talk about negative!
i suppose the next thing you will say is that western medicine doesn't kill? what about all the meds that .. oops! are poison today but were the med of choice yesterday? what about all the "oops" surgery done? i treated a woman who had a hole in her stomach from a "mistake" made by her surgeon.. he got paid anyway, and then got paid to try and fix it. nice... and the list goes on.
I can't follow your logic. The existance of iatrogeny doesn't make accupuncture any more effective. Accupuncture doesn't work, it doesn't matter how innocuous their procedures might seem vs. real medicine. And promoting this stupid things through the web might lead someone to stop taking their medicine and migrate to a useless tretament. So it IS dangerous.
I would like you all to check the official position of the US National Council Against Health Fraud on acupuncture: h tt p : // w ww(dot)ncahf(dot)org / pp / acu(dot)h tm l
Traditional Chinese medicine is not based on knowledge of modern physiology, biochemistry, nutrition, anatomy, or any of the known mechanisms of healing. Nor is it based on knowledge of cell chemistry, blood circulation, nerve function, or the existence of hormones or other biochemical substances. There is no correlation between the meridians used in traditional Chinese medicine and the actual layout of the organs and nerves in the human body.
Did you do the google I asked you to do? All of these comments you say have "no correlation" exist. You have to just look beyond what you already think you know.
I would not complaint if they stop calling these sstupid things "medicine". Acupuncture does not help to treat any known illnesses, therefore, does who practice it are charlatans. All these new age nonsense "alternative treatments" are responsible for the death of thousands of people every year.
Do some medical research on the point of Pericardium 6. Western Medicine recognizes the effects of this point. I am currently a student at a Western Medical school and have seen the literature. The fact that you called Oriental Medicine "new age" also shows you have not done your research. Oriental medicine has been around for about 4,000 years.
I am sorry to know that you are about to become a new charlatan. So you think that the possible effect of puncturing a single point in the body validates a whole discipline that is suppossed to cure almost every human illness????? You must be kidding. I call it new age idiocy since it was this movement who brought this from milenary china to occident. Study a real career.
Haha, alright, well you've proved you're close minded and not really up for this conversation. I can't wait til I run into you at your job. Just remember....I like cheese on my burgers. Peace.
You're the acupuncturist, not me, so let the rest of the critical thinking people laught at your ignorance. I don't need to demonstrate a milenary discipline, previous to any modern medical knowledge, works or not. It should be YOU the ones working on it. Obviously, you have no arguments.
JPRichardson, there are actually 16 meridians, not 12. Also, the meridians all correspond to certain ailments. Specific points along those meridians correspond to even more diseases. The 11th point on the Large Intestine channel can be used for skin disorders, while any point along the lung channel can be used for a cough. There is a science to finding the points anatomically and inserting the needles painlessly and accessing the qi to get the "de qi" sensation is definitely an art.
Please just use google my friend. There has been tons of scientific research on acupuncture. Harvard and UCLA have done research on the effects of acupuncture on the human body. There is science. The NIH has approved acupuncture for the treatment of many diseases. You are misinformed. Also, acupuncture has not killed anyone. It is standard western med. that kills thousands of patients each year.
Actually, what there is are lots of attempts from acupuncturist to validate their discipline. There are LOTS of independent, scientific studies which have more than demonstrated acupuncture does not work better than placebo. As to authorities approving alternative therapies, well, homeopathy, another fraud, is the most recurred medicine in countries like Germany. Government cares about business more than about health. Watch your TV after 10:00 at night.
You keep expanding your consciousness (LOL) , but when you are seriously ill, your needles will not help. What you do is hurting people by preventing them from treating their illments properly. You are a criminal.
Don't you think that is a little extreme? People choose to come into my clinic. Many people come to me because they can not get help anywhere else or their doctors brush them off. That is criminal.
(here, in Quebec, french part of Canada; they say that a professional doctorate will be set in few years and then those who would have been trained before would have the opportunity to complete their formation with this doctorate).
Do you know how it works, in your country (USA I guess?)? What other benefits did you derive from your treatments?
Thanks for the answer! Here a few more questions, if you have a little time to spare... :)
Did you ever have been treated with electro-acupuncture? You liked it? What do you think of the laser used in acupuncture?
Actually, I discovered acupuncture last summer, and I really find it amazing. I live in Canada and I'm about to finish a master degree, so I'm really considering to start again and go for the three years program in acupuncture
Hi ubertin, I believe one or two of my sessions involved electro-acupuncture; which for me had no pain association; I was indifferent during its' applicaton; it was just part of the treatment. I highly recommend that you P.M. kungfuyogi for the licensing portion of your questions, just mention the video. We are in the USA, Tennessee. Thank you again for your comments and good luck! MKG/Robin
Hi ubertin, as the patient this is how I understand the Moxa, the needles are inserted at the appropriate meridian points, when the needles are heated the heat conducts to the needlepoint breaking down any chi blocks and stimulating chi flow. The redness you see is not the skin but an ointment to protect the skin from falling ashes. If there is more to this possibly kungfuyogi can add. Thank you for your comment, MKG
Here's the picture I'm seeing: someone has done 'a little reading', very apparent not nearly enough, just enough to show a long road ahead towards wisdom that comes with experience. Don't be afraid to walk through the doors that can expand your consciousness. You may need an acupuncturist much more than you realize and not for sticking you with any needles. How deep does the rabbit hole go?
Here's the picture: a few thousand years before it was known that blood circulates or germs cause disease, doctors who had never dissected a frog, claimed that yin and yang could be balanced by inserting needles into the right points, among the hundreds of points strung along 12 meridians....Scientists suggest the needles stimulate release of endorphins. Jalapeno peppers do the same thing. So it wouldn't matter where you stick the needles would it? Then who needs an acupuncturist?
I guess JPRichardson could be right. In Chinese Herbal Medicine herbs and foods do regulate yin and yang. Peppers would be labeled acrid and hot. Therefor,someone Cold/yin side could use the peppers to warm up. Harmonization of yin/yang would occur. If everyone knew how to balance their bodies through food...we would not need acupuncturits. But every now and then we need a little help.
Also, there are actually 72 meridians. Check the Manual of Acupuncture by Deadman.
I am the acupuncturist that did the treatment on the video. Acupuncture does work really well for anxiety and panic attacks even during an acute phase. In fact, most of my patients fall asleep during their sessions.
Take Care,
Chuck
PS My arms don't look that hairy in real life. :-)
I am so glad this information is here. @ books that have have an invaluable amount of information: Do-it-yourself Shiatsu by a Shiatsu master named OHashi. The other: Chinese Medicine, many Paths To Wholeness by Misha Ruth Cohen.Oh yes, and 1 more: Reflexology: The definitive guide for the practitioner, by Beryl Crane. Thank you for posting this awesome video!
ColectvIndvidulism9 3 years ago
"For Believers no proof is necessary. For Skeptics no amount of proof is enough."
I think it is best NOT to be either.
Healthy debate is great. If you want to ask tough legitimate questions and be open to the answers that is awesome. I think we are all responsible for the sense of community that is at the moment this video. SkeptiTroll/JPRichardson refuses to act with dignity. Maybe if this community holds him accountable he will be nicer to his friends and family.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
MemphisInternalArts, you are well spoken. Thank you for the quote. I plan on writing it down and taping it to my moniter. Also, thank you sincerely for posting this video, and others. JPRichardson, thank you for the robust comments to keep everyone thinking deeply, and researching.
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
My biggest question to the people that belive "Acupuncture has been proven uneffective to treat any kind of illness" is: Where did you see that? If it was in a medical journal or some sort of legitimate source of medical information, then I would understand you're skeptisism, but from what I hear "real doctors" have actually began to work WITH Chinese medicine to aid in the treatment of many diseases. Hmm... I wonder why "real doctors" would do that if it was all a load of BS?
WrathsLust 3 years ago
You can check my comments below for references on studies which clearly demonstrate acupuncture does not work. And if you think it for a minute, it should be acupuncturists who should scientifically demonstrate their practice is of any use, not the other way around. BRING THE PROOFS! Really, read my comments below. There is a lot of information there.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
All hail SkeptiTrool/JPRIchardson has spoken!!!
I think understand your position. Thanks for contributing.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Thanks for the free publicity. This will help me educate more people. DON'T TRY ACUPUNCTURE, IT DOES NOT WORK!!!!
JPRichardson 3 years ago
You are such a wonderful human.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
I know.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
First of all any smart American people would know if it can't be explain scientifically ,it doesn't mean it can't work, for me I tried Acupuncture 2 years old from uncle because I couldn't feel parts of my foot for over 1 and half years do to a surgey.now i don't have total feeling back, but I can feel where i couldn't before
LittoMoon 3 years ago
If you knew just a bit about science you would know personal accounts are completely useless and absurd as proof of anything. Go see a real doctor NOW!! Yo may have a serious health problem which will NOT be cured by this quackery.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
Acupuncture has been proved uneffective to treat any kind of human illness, from pain to cancer. It doesn't matter if it looks safe (which it is NOT) or if practicioners present you with "technichal" details on how it works. If you are sick, go visit a real doctor.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
The Gate theory of pain is discussed in great detail in Misha's book.For all those interested in educating yourselves,
there is an immense amount of educational material available to you.TheAmericanCollege ofTraditionalChinese Medicine is one example of a school for learning.You must have 90 credits of recommended classes prior to even being enrolled.For people interested in bull baiting, and fussiness,I recommend that you seek an accredited acupuncturist to reduce your need to create discord.
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
All Hail SkeptiTroll has spoken!!!
Why would the Real Doctors at UCLA med school have their own program if acupuncture had no merit? Is your "expertise" on the subject much more in depth than the medical doctors that attend the program as well as the medical doctors teaching the program? What about the medical doctors that refer patients to me? I don't recall you saying that you had any medical training. Do you know even more than them?
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Other great books to educate yourself with include "Reflexology: The Definitive Practitioner's Manual"which is approved by the International Therapy Examination Council for Students and Practitioners" by Beryl Crane. Google Wyeth pharmaceuticals, or simply the words Du and or Ren for some specific descriptions of the various "electrical lines" of the body's meridians. It is a great way to honor the old adage, "KNOW THYSELF."
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
That is a VERY valid assessment. Thank you for pointing that out. I think what you have stated illustrates clearly the importance of experiencing things for ourselves and making decisions based on our own personal experiences with these and other therapies.
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
Anyone who has studied physiology(even through the most basic high school course)knows that the human body is electro-chemical. I think most de-bunkers are people who have not studied this seriously. Also, I recommend that people who are trying to stay healthy and productive educate themselves about emerging technology involving radio frequencies, and audio spotlight(sub verbal communication research)in case they might be sensitive to these issues.
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
Thanks for posting this. I also learned a great deal about this subject from 2 excellent books. One titled,"Chinese Medicine, Many Paths To Wholeness"by Misha Ruth Cohen, and "Do-it-yourself Shiatsu"by Ohashi. Both books give very specific and helpful information on problems or issues with the Du and Ren channels of the body's Meridians. Misha's book is inspired by Chinese Medicine. Ohashi's book is inspired by Shiatsu(Japanese Massage therapy). Btw, your video is awesome, thanks for posting it.
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
@quackerywatch AKA JPRichardson
Yesterday out of shear curiosity I clicked on a spanish language acupuncture video. And guess who I saw trashing it in Spanish...You. Then I thought "what does else does he comment on" and went to your very interesting playlists. You have an interesting habit of calling people "stupid" and "pathetic". Your behavior by definition is trolling. I have broken the cardinal rule in dealing with trolls and that is to ignore them.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
whenever you want to reach me, please answer over my messages. i can't come back to call you names if you simply write messages dedicated to me without advise. By the way, science has demonstrated acupuncture does not work. Charlatan.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
All Hail SkeptiTroll has spoken!!!
Science HAS demonstrated that acupuncture affects the body. Please see the scientific studies already provided. The only problem that I have with you is that you are rude and mean spirited. I pointed out the other posts of yours to prove a pattern. Disagreement is healthy. I welcome it. Treating people poorly is unacceptable. I am merely trying to hold you accountable for your behavior. I and my patients know I do good work. You are unimportant.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Inserting needles in the body does affect you, of course. Unfortunately, there is no healing consequence from such practice. It does nothing to improve your health.
I am only rude as a response to rudeness.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
JAMA 284 (4): 483--5 Here is an article in one of the most prestigious medical journals in the Western World. It reports on research that states MD'S KILL 250,000 patients a year due to medication errors, unnecessary surgeries, etc. How's that for safe and reliable JP?
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Iatrogeny exists, of course. But trying to invalidate the medical science with such a poor argument is... blatantly... STUPID! Acupuncture does not work. I don't need any "credentials" to see quackery, it is called CRITICAL THINKING.
Listen to me very clearly: when you get really sick, you better end up visiting a real doctor or else...
Last but not least, I am not trolling or spamming, I am only answering comments they send directly to me.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
Listen to me clearly TROLL, is it your skills of critical thinking that dismisses the Yale/M.I.T./UCLA/Harvard studies I provided as irrelevant? You do not have the credentials or enough knowledge to have a critical relevant conversation about Traditional Chinese Medicine. At the least you are a bully calling people stupid, idiot, quack etc. from the safety of your keyboard. Would you talk to anyone face to face like that?! I doubt it!! Take a hike Troll. Go piss in someone else's sandbox.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
You have posted more comments than I, that should make you a TROLL. I have not dismissed any studies; actually I am still waiting for references of independent, double blind, scientific studies which prove any of acupuncture's multiple crazy claims:
a) Existence of Qi
b) Existence of Yin & Yang
c) Existence of meridians
d) Possibility of balancing Yin and Yang by inserting needles in the body
e) Correlation between human illnesses and an imbalance of Yin and Yang
f) etc. etc. etc.
QuackeryWatcher 3 years ago
I am the acupuncturist in the video. Why wouldn't I comment on the video.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Just ignore me.
QuackeryWatcher 3 years ago
Hope you like my new nickname. By the way, I am not trying to convince YOU about anything, so please do me a favor and simply ignore my comments.
QuackeryWatcher 3 years ago
All hail, The Troll has spoken.
No contact info.
No name.
No Backbone
No Wonder. Another anonymous internet prick surfing the web to spread their misery around.
Thanks for showing up.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
How does it feel to be a full time charlatan?
Because, you know, acupuncture DOES NOT WORK!
And please, stop your "anonymus" diatribe. 99.99 % of youtube users are anonymous (including YOU!), and still some of them are intelligent enough to discuss topics using intelligent reasoning. I can't find any of that in you, so please, just ignore me.
QuackeryWatcher 3 years ago
If you Google Ren or Du channel, you will get a definition of the Meridians from Wyeth pharmacuticals. I wonder why a company like that would bother with researching "Mystical rituals?"
ColectvIndvidulism1 3 years ago
Here's the picture: a few thousand years before it was known that blood circulates or germs cause disease, doctors who had never dissected a frog, claimed that yin and yang could be balanced by inserting needles into the right points, among the hundreds of points strung along 12 meridians....Scientists suggest the needles stimulate release of endorphins. Jalapeno peppers do the same thing. So it wouldn't matter where you stick the needles would it? Then who needs an acupuncturist?
JPRichardson 3 years ago
Lol, so true. I guess a jalepeno wouldn't be as good a placebo as a several thousand year old mystical ritual. Not to mention placebos work better if they are over priced and administered in official-looking settings.
DeimosSaturn 3 years ago
If all one believes in is crude matter then acupuncture sounds foolish. It takes time to understand there is more to life than bones, skin, blood and nerves. There is a flow of energy that science cannot quantify. You joke about 2800 years ago and ignorance but what you lack in understanding is in those times people studied things much longer than average people do today. Energy is quite real and can be sensed by a person who knows what they are looking for. I was once skeptical too.
gatersaw 3 years ago
SIMPLE- you stick needles in and it helps to circulate blood. OF COURSE ENERGY IS REAL EVERYBODY. What's with all this mystical shit. I suppose it could be mystical- especially combined witn taiji and Qigong.... The worldview of the Chinese 2800 yrs ago (and everyone else) was different than us moderns.
deepeeeh 3 years ago
My personal suggestion is that when you feel sick, you better look for orthodox, scientific, medical advice. That's all I say. Accupuncture has failed to prove any kind of efficiency in treating several different illnesses again and again, starting with pain. It is stupid for people to seek "alternative" cures to ailments which can be treated an cured by scientific medicine.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
The FDA has approved acupuncture as a legitimate treatment modality whose efficacy is based on solid research. Eating a jalepeno pepper is also akin to being exposed to an irritant, which is what causes the body to release endorphins in an attempt to counteract the burn of a jalepeno. Hardly a comparison.
MakkiMakko 3 years ago
need to prove what you just stated.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
The FDA has also approve homeopathy as a legitimate treatment...because there are no ill side effects. The FDA has also approved putting magnets on your ears and putting stickers on your feet as a "legitimate" treatment. The FDA is in place to insure a drug isn't harmful, not to insure it actually works.
DeimosSaturn 3 years ago
memphis I think your just upset that your whole life is a lie and always has been and your clinging on to the only thing left in your life that you think is real, and thats why your fighting to the end with this dumb argument. come on man its ok you can give in, apparently you think martial arts work too? you have alot to learn about life
Oxycodone48 3 years ago
Are you talking to me or yourself?
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Oxycontin works, sure. But martial arts don't? Do you train in martial arts?
deepeeeh 3 years ago
JPRichardson since you are not going away and seem to feel qualified to comment on the science surrounding acupuncture research please post a link to your CV or resume. And perhaps give us a short history of your academic credentials including any classes about how to structure a research study or actual research that you have been involved in.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Why, oh why, would I have to justify my "qualifications" in order to discuss QUACKERY??? It is acupuncturists who need to demonstrate their claims and "qualifications". You need not to believe my word, I fully understand people like you will not easily change their minds about their beliefs, that is until a dear one dies because of your ignorance. That is exactly the reason why I am referring to studies made by CERTIFIED SCIENTISTS which fully demonstrate how stupid and harmful acupuncture is.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
I thought you would cop out. Also, Harvard,MIT, And Yale scientists are not certified!!?? I guess after 2000+ years, the oldest body of written medical knowledge on the planet, and millions of people helped daily are all just people like myself - unwilling to change their beliefs. We are so ignorant that we just keep coming back century after century after century.
You may now have the last word at whatever comment you have to say against acupuncture quackery or me. Peace be with you.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
How the hell can accupuncture be harmful? It can be painful, at it's worst- for people with tight muscles or fused bones. I don't understand how it could be harmful. Unless your Dr's drunk, which is a possibility.
deepeeeh 3 years ago
Science sucks...LOL. But it's limited.
deepeeeh 3 years ago
I live in Taiwan and TCM clinics are everywhere. It's not "alternative" here and is coverd by National Health Insurance. As common as Western med. here. The Dr's are CERTAINLY qualified. But, some may be better technicians than others. My Dr's generousity of spirit inspires me. If I'm not mistaken, TC Dr's on the Mainland China need 7yrs. of University to be certified.
deepeeeh 3 years ago
That explains your belief in quackery. Acupuncture will not turn into actual medicine just because TCM "clinics" abound or because you say so. Get away from TCM, its dangerous and your health will NOT improve. At the end, you WILL go visit a real doctor when you are seriously ill.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
I am still waiting for references on scientific studies which validate acupuntures claims: a) existance of Qi b) existance of yin & yang c) existance of meridians d)ability to balance these "bodily forces" in order to cure diseases.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
Even more scientific evidence showing acupuncture is pure fiction:
- White A and others. Adverse events following acupuncture: Prospective surgery of 32,000 consultations with doctors and physiotherapists. BMJ 323:485-486, 2001.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
More, scientific proof acupuncture is pure quackery:
- Streitberger K and others. Acupuncture compared to placebo-acupuncture for postoperative nausea and vomiting prophylaxis: A randomised placebo-controlled patient and observer blind trial. Anesthesia 59:142-149, 2004.
- Kalauokalani D and others. Acupuncture for chronic low back pain: Diagnosis and treatment patterns among acupuncturists evaluating the same patient. Southern Medical Journal 94:486-492, 2001.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
What makes inserting needles quakery?
deepeeeh 3 years ago
When you claim inserting needles in your body will cure you from a certain illness, it is quackery. It is harmful because it prevents ill people from getting serious medical treatment. Also, cases of punctured lungs and other organs and infections are not rare. You can read all my posts below on the topic.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
One is totally free to seek Western medical treatment while using Chinese methods. How could it prevent "serious medical treatment"? It's complimentary to almost anything. Enough.
deepeeeh 3 years ago
I agree only partially in that people are responsible for wasting their time and money in "alternative" medicine. Quackery always relies on people's naiveness and ignorance, but it is still a crime involving human lifes.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
People reading this Trolls comments should know that he refuses to man up and post his academic credentials. He has no real knowledge of alternative medicine. The question remains if you don't like acupuncture why have you spent the last year jumping on everyone posting comments on this video?
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
For those who as for scientific proof that acupuncture DOES NOT WORK, search any of these:
- Melzack R, Katz J. Auriculotherapy fails to relieve chronic pain: A controlled crossover study. JAMA 251:10411043, 1984
- Ter Reit G, Kleijnen J, Knipschild P. Acupuncture and chronic pain: A criteria-based meta-analysis. Clinical Epidemiology 43:1191-1199, 1990.
....
JPRichardson 3 years ago
hey dummy your posting a an artical about this doctor who agrees with you, HOW BOUT THE 500 doctors that disaggree call bullshit?? which ones are right the ones who have found no real properties of heal involved or some doctor who finds increased blood flow lol lol, f.uckin dicklicker go play make believe doctor with your acupuncter needles.
and jing jing, they havent prooved anything!! INCREASED BLOOD FLOW DOES NOT PROVE ANYTHING, Idiot!
Oxycodone48 3 years ago
Thanks for the mature, insightful and colorful commentary. Keep up the good work.
Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Where are the scientific studies of the 500 doctors you site that say acupuncture doesn't work? Do your scientific credentials provide you the necessary skill base to analyze the research of the team of Yale physicians concluding that acupuncture affects the limbic system? Can you respond without writing like an angry teenager!
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
OxyDickwad...its a scientifically proven fact TCM works, get out of the 20th century.
You talk absolute nonsence.
jingjing666 3 years ago
JPRichardson makes a very good point about endorphines being released when needles are inserted into the body, yes this does happen endorphines are released, the same thing happens when a limb is chopped off the body it releases endorphines to the area in which the pain is occuring, it is a natural defense mechanism in the body, so then instead of getting acupuncter why not go cut a finger off to rel;ease endorphins into the body, or you know a better Idea go buy some oxycontin
Oxycodone48 3 years ago
JPRichardson is right! TCM or chinese medicine in every aspect has been proven to be a plecebo effect, how bout torchering innocent moon bears for bile, in other words bear puke, what a healing agent, TCM is a discrace anyone who buys into it is just plain stupid
Oxycodone48 3 years ago
Perhaps you should consider Premarin. It is a drug that is harvested from PREgnant MARe uRINe. The horse is impregnated, confined to collect the urine and then the horse is killed. The urine is then served up to millions upon millions of women throughout the world. Would you not agree that this is an even greater disgrace? Are the women that buy this western med stupid? Do you consider the whole of western medicine invalid now?
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
did you see any acupuncture for hyperthermia?.. or tuberculosis?.. or even AIDS? yeah sure endorphines doesn't heal anything.. but it lessens the aggreviation of a state.. and becomes the precursor to the body's positive or negative feedback.. ugh duh...
drentot 4 years ago
part two: and the dermatome also the dermatomal.. is the chart where the dorsal roots (bet you don't even know what it is unless you check it up on the internet)the main innervation leads to the sense receptors in the body, includes the pain receptors... ugh.. duh... go study.. that's just one scientific back up how acupuncture really works.. want more?..
drentot 4 years ago
What JPRichardson would have us believe is that China, USof A, Britan and many other countries are licensing people to commit fraud against accupuncture paitence. If it doesnt work then why do I have to have a license from the state to practice on people? What you want me to believe is that dozens of governments and a couple Billion people have all been frauded by accupuncture....I dont beleive everyone in every gov. is that incompetant.
muttergeo 4 years ago 3
Being registered doesn't make accupuncture any more effective. Burglars are also registered by governments. Also, the fact that millions try accupuncture does not make it any more real. When you're really sick, you will end up with a real doctor.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
My entire point is you think TCM doctors are not doctors. I can see your indoctrination...read as brain washing worked.
and its not registration. its LICENSEING. there is a major difference between registering someone on parole and having to take a test to get a license. Your logic is flawed
muttergeo 4 years ago
Well, you understood right. Accupuncturists are NOT doctors. And please direct me to the governmental authority who validates and license accupuncturists in USA.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
correct not all accupuncturists are doctors of traditional chinese medicine, but they are still required by every state in the US to pass a test to be certified to practice in the State. The seperate states of the USA require the licensing not the Federal Gov. What is it that makes you think a western doctor is better than a doctor of TCM?
muttergeo 4 years ago
Science. There is nothing scientific about TCM. Their claims are ridiculous, and people are distracted from real medical treatment by this nonsense.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
mapping all the energy circuits in the body isnt scientific? I and Albert Einstein disagree with you. TCM works on a quantum level to create change to the physical body. Western medicine works only on the physical level. E=MC squared. tells us that all matter comes from energy, so working on the energetic level is actually the most efficient. And who said people cant go to both kinds of doctors?
muttergeo 4 years ago
OK, so Einstein validated accupuncture and inserting needles into your body is "working at a quantum level". That's it. Good luck with your happy pseudoscience, Mother Earth charlatan.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Accupuncture doesn't work. Discussing this further only shows your ignorance. Just reading your arguments to defend these charlatans make me laugh really hard. Show me one serious, independent study that demonstrate accupuncture cures anything. Show me a study that demonstrates the existance of "meridians". Show me, please.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
It most certainly does work. I had headaches for years, with the left side of my head swelling at times 1 treatment I was cured. this compared to going to western doctors for years with no reults.
there have been 10s of thousands of documented research programs done on accupuncture, in china and the western world
muttergeo 4 years ago
Show me ONE of those serious, INDEPENDENT, scientific investigations. Show me proof of the existance of chi, yin and yang, or meridians. Show me how it works. Show me it actually works on any kind of illment. I can show you documents that prove it DOESN'T work any better than placebo (check National Council Against Health Fraud for examples).
JPRichardson 4 years ago
No matter what "proof" anyone offers you its clear you would deny it. your attitude of disbelief makes that clear. However if you do want proof then learn some Qi Gong and learn to fell it yourself. Do tell us thou where does this NCAHF get its funding? Could it be the western doctors and drug companies? who would loose money?
muttergeo 4 years ago
So you can't present any serious, independent scientific study that demonstrates ANY of acupuncture claims. I see. That's what I thought.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
No I wont post any cos you would just deny anything. a clouded mind sees nothing. you have already made up your mind that it doesnt work. I am just currious as to why? or should I say what is your motivation....whos paying you to post negative comments about accupuncture?
muttergeo 4 years ago
Nobody pays me anything. I just can't stand people getting hurt out of stupidity and ignorance. People needs to be more critical when making decisions concerning important topics, such as health. Fact is accupuncture does not work. Why is people encouraging others to "give it a try"?
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Probably cos they realize western medicine is not the great white hope it was made out to beleive. Western doctors want lif long paitents plain and simple.
Again it does work. have you presonally found it doesnt work? did you have a treatment with an open mind? When I had my treatments I went in with an open mind not believeing it would work so no placebo effect there, guess what I experienced? IT WORKS! that doesnt mean it will work on everything all the time but nothing does that.
muttergeo 4 years ago
if it doesn't work.. how come it has scientific explanations and findings?...
drentot 4 years ago
Come on, illustrate me a little about the "scientific explanations and findings" there are concerning acupuncture.. Come on, I am waiting. refer me to ONE SINGLE scientific, double blind study which proves does any better than placebo. I am waiting.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
the gate control theory go check it up in any medical books.. maybe you're not medically oriented well it's like this the pricking of the needles causes endorphines (natural pain killers in the body) to be released.. yeah that is supported by science and not like any placebo effect would do.. maybe some would exaggerate it but believe me.. it has findings... pls.. don't even try
drentot 4 years ago
Here's the picture: a few thousand years before it was known that blood circulates or germs cause disease, doctors who had never dissected a frog, claimed that yin and yang could be balanced by inserting needles into the right points, among the hundreds of points strung along 12 meridians... Scientists suggest the needles stimulate release of endorphins. Jalapeno peppers do the same thing. So it wouldn't matter where you stick the needles would it? Then who needs an acupuncturist?
JPRichardson 4 years ago
too bad your reasoning's of course.. tsk tsk.. look at this way dermatomal chart.. go check it up again.. it's a map of the nerve roots where the pain effectors are located and guess what.. they based it on the sites where those pressure points you were talking bout... oh and btw.. instead of proving us wrong.. prove us that your right give us proof that it erally doesn't exist...
drentot 4 years ago
*really
drentot 4 years ago
the dermatomal chart.. except it's suuported by science...
drentot 4 years ago
Sorry man, but it is acupuncture and every other "alternative treatment" that needs to be proven right. I al ready gave references as to studies that prove it wrong, and I hate to repeat myself. I don't mean to change your particular opinion on acupuncture, but to prevent a really ill person to replace medical treatment with this nonsense. Acupuncture doesn't work, it has been demonstrated over and over again.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
muttergeos right there is no use reasoning with an unreasonable mind, clouded, stingy... oh yeah uhmm. you could do it yourself you know.. without a license but you need one to do it to others.. that's why they need the license.. and bad people take advantage by making one.. LICEnse license license.. sure it says.. "hey look at me i know how to do this" but impliedly (common sense) you need one to do service to others...
drentot 4 years ago
I debate because I care. Just to show some respect I will answer your "arguments" one by one:
1) Endorphines: the body response to pain is the release of endorphines. It doesn't really matter whether the pain comes from eating Tabasco sauce, sticking needles in your body or receiving a kick in the groin. It also makes no difference where the pain is located. Therefore, endorphines cannot have any possible relation with the alleged curative properties of acupuncture.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
I can't believe you are still crashing this video. Check this out. I asked you to research this months ago but you continue to grind your axe. You are like the monkey who gets caught because he refuses to let go of the coconut. I will a bit of the article.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Abass Alavi, M.D., chief of nuclear medicine at the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center showed that acupuncture affects the flow of blood in the brain. He used SPECT to view the brains of four people with pain and five pain-free people who served as the control group. Dr. Alavi found that after
acupuncture needles were inserted, all of the patients had increased blood flow to the thalamus.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
JPRichardson here is another study. Copy and paste this into Google to read the article. Now if you refuse to listen to Yale MD's discussing the effects of acupuncture then there is nothing any one do for you.
THE EFFECT OF GENERAL ANESTHESIA IN ACUPUNCTURE
STIMULATION: A FUNCTIONAL MRI STUDY
Dana Weiss, R. Todd Constable, Zeev Kain, and Shu-Ming Wang. Dept. of
Anesthesiology, Yale School of Medicine, New Haven, CT
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
You must be really stupid. The study you just asked me to check has this really unrelevant conclusion: "We found significant differences in brain f-MRI images when comparing acupuncture while awake to acupuncture given under propofol general anesthesia."
So, inserting needles in the body of a human being produces a certain brain stimulation. Well, kicking you in the ass also produces a similar stimulation. This study proves nothing. Accupuncture doesn't work and you are ignorant.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
OK Brother,
You asked for one study that said acupuncture affected the body and I supplied two. I will offer you some truth from my life experience. I have been in your place before taking my anger out on everyone. Looking back I am ashamed at some of the things I said and did to hurt my friends, family, school brothers, and even random strangers. All I can do now is minimize the amount of time that I am an asshole and instead try to help others.I hope you find peace in your heart.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
No, man. I asked for ONE SINGLE INDEPENDENT, DOUBLE BLIND STUDY that proves acupuncture WORKS. There is nothing like that. To correspond to your kindness, I ask you to google and read the following article (abstract should be enough): Effect of Acupuncture on Nausea of Pregnancy: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
BEATRICE KNIGHT, MSc, RM, CATHERINE MUDGE, RGN, RM, ADM, LicAc, SHEILA OPENSHAW, PhD, RGN, ADRIAN WHITE, MA, BM and ANNA HART, MA, MSc.
Promoting acupuncture is criminal.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
I hate to break it to you but it is impossible to do a double blind study with acupuncture. How can you do the study when the patient and the person inserting the needle without both knowing what's going on? This is why much research has moved toward using diagnostic equipment like MRI.
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
Please Google: "Is acupuncture effective for the treatment of chronic pain? A systematic review.Ezzo J, Berman B, Hadhazy VA, Jadad AR, Lao L, Singh BB."
No time? Let me quote the abstract:
"We conclude there is limited evidence that acupuncture is more effective than no treatment for chronic pain; and inconclusive evidence that acupuncture is more effective than placebo, sham acupuncture or standard care."
JPRichardson 3 years ago
Acupuncture and Knee Osteoarthritis
A Three-Armed Randomized Trial A total of 320 primary care practitioners and 1007 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee participated in this 26-week randomized trial. The proportion of patients achieving the primary end point (>36% improvement on a standardized measure of pain and function) was 53.1% for traditional Chinese acupuncture, 51.0% for sham acupuncture (blinded comparison), and 29.1% for medical treatment (nonblinded comparisons).
MemphisInternalArts 3 years ago
How does that demonstrates any healing effect of accupunture. I alugh at youl I laugh really hard. You are a pathetic little person.
JPRichardson 3 years ago
2)The "gate control theory" refers exclusively to PAIN, while acupuncturists claim to be able to cure you from almost anything, from smoking to cancer. Moreover, the gate control theory is just an effort to explain the brain involvement in the condition of pain, and as far as I know no acupuncturist is trying to insert needles in your brain (although you never know).
JPRichardson 4 years ago
3) The dermatome chart (not "dermatomal"): I don't even understand why you bring it to the discussion, since this another proof that acupuncture is pure quackery. A dermatomic area is simply an area of the skin that is supplied by a single pari of dorsal roots. If compare a dermatomal chart with a traditional chinese acupuncture chart you will notice immediately they have NOTHING in common. There is no anatomical or histological basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
part one:...ugh.. contrary endorphines does a lot to your body... read it up again.. and connect it with other phenomenon in the body.. your just looking at one picture.. duh.. Gate control theory of pain explains how endorphines process..
drentot 4 years ago
I think you can't read. We are not discussing the function of endorphines. We are discussing whether a bodily (healing) response to acupuncture actually exists. While it is true endorphines are released as a response to inserting needles into your body, this is the same response you get to any kind of pain. Therefore, it doesn't really matter where you insert a needle. And, of course, endorphine is not known for healing any kind of disease.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
By the way, your personal, individual account, as you must understand, is no better proof of anything than a guy saying he is able to bring rain to town by chanting a particular song. Which doesn't mean you or the singing guy are dishonest, it just mean you are falling on a "post hoc" fallacy.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Oh gee I guess you got me. those dozens of Universities in a communist country are just a fallacy. yea the communists always allow fraud to go on thats why they put to death their X head of their food and drug administration!
muttergeo 4 years ago
i think its stupid ppl dont beleive theres energy in us thats plain fuckin retarded if we didnt have energy than how the fuck would we be alive u dumbasses
pesadilla38 4 years ago
there will always be people who are afraid of things that are out of their realm of understanding. for someone to understand the benefits of this practice they must first understand there is an inherent energy in their body that is an extension of the the energy that is exists all around us.
raiyankhan 4 years ago
i had a friend who did it and swears it works wonders. i would do it if i could afford to, might help me more than western medicine. then, i will also try ayurvedic medicine, i hear its good for somethings too.
vivaciousladyluck 4 years ago
Ancient Chinese Secret!! lmao!!
Kirara9245 4 years ago
I viewed acupuncture with some degree of sketicism until my wife decided to take our dog in for some treatments to see if it would help his arthritis. It helped quite dramatically. His legs/hind quarters used to tremble and now they don't. Just because we don't understand why it works doesn't mean that it can't. There are lots of things we don't understand in medicine yet. Search for "spencer's acupuncture" on youtube to see a video of our dog getting treated, or click on my username.
hophead515 4 years ago
am not against the chinese culture or anyone who believes in it .. just doesnt make sense to me at all, am a scientist and this is not based on any scientific facts besides i believe many diseases can be transmitted through this practice and even further injury can occur from those needles .. but then again our knowledge is so limited and this might be proven effective in the coming years!!
MariosTackle 4 years ago
Acupuncture is very effective for many people. I've been getting it and giving it for almost 15 years and have personally experienced (and received) many treatments that prove to me that it works. I can't explain it from a western scientific standpoint. I just know that it works from experience as a patient and a practitioner. The amazing thing is that it works on animals. Not sure how the placebo effect can be explained with animals.
Dustygrimes 4 years ago
"Not sure how the placebo effect can be explained with animals."
It can't be explained in terms of animals, because your dog can't talk. However, it can still be the placebo effect for you. You, the human (the one susceptible to bias), are still the one making the judgment call on whether or not your dog feels better.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
"making the judgment call on whether or not your dog feels better."
... or, assuming your animal actually got better, whether it was because of the acupuncture, or something else.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
You just have to experience it for yourself, and then you can talk about whether or not it works.
For me, it works.
Dustygrimes 4 years ago
hi dusty i have a bells palsy now i have this 3 months/20 days till now.. but i believe it works ...
yasmien234 4 years ago
unless you count "not walking before the treatment" and "walking after the treatment"...
flacudoc 4 years ago
Do you have a well documented case of that flacudoc? If so I'd love to read it.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
there are plenty... but i do not do research. there are people in the western medicine community, and have heard of some work by physicists that you may like. good luck in your search
flacudoc 4 years ago
in the coming years? are you kidding? it has already been proven over the last 5000. not to mention, it was not too long ago that a doctor was locked up, for claiming there were "little unseen creatures" on surgical equipment that caused illness after surgery! years later we call those little creatures.. germs.
flacudoc 4 years ago
Well. Yea, but I can cite papers about germs and I can show you some under a microscope.
Personally I've never seen evidence of the kind of 'energy pathways' that acupuncturists seem to talk vaguely about. I haven't really researched it tho, so I can't really say much other than that it sounds like pseudoscience to me.
Again, if you can point me to a name or a study or two, it would be interesting to read.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
you didn't know that there is more to human life than a beating heart? you have never heard of "the will to live?" really? interesting.. yet, it can't be measured.. or view under a microscope. just because tcm doesn't fit into what you know, doesn't mean its vague, or pseudoscience. and since scientific theory is being proven and disproven every couple of years, its odd to hear you want to pick apart something you don't understand
flacudoc 4 years ago
I'm not trying to pick it apart. I just want confirmation. The contortions you are going into to avoid citing anything is pretty suspicious tho.
Additionally, "the will to live" appears to come from the human mind, and you can show experimentally that states of mind correspond with brain chemistry, suggesting a strong correlation. I'm just asking for similar from acupuncture.
Also, which scientific theory is 'proven and disproven' every couple of years?
danmoore5000 4 years ago
I mean it's just odd that people would talk about 'energy pathways' and stuff and then not really be able to point them out.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
can you point to air? before you bring in your microscope... can you point to an electron? no.. but you can point to things that react to an electron to verify it is there.. right? well.. same thing
flacudoc 4 years ago
"can you point to air? before you bring in your microscope... can you point to an electron? no.. but you can point to things that react to an electron to verify it is there.. right?"
You're absolutely right. You can point to experiments that verify electrons. Which experiment was it that showed acupuncture conclusively? Who did the study? Who did the write up? I really would like to read it.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
wow... your mind is very closed. you call yourself a scientist? not likely.
how much proof would you like? i am sorry if you can not see it. i truly am.. but that is on you, and nobody else. the truth is all around. you choose not to see... and for that, i am truly sorry. talk to people, read more, talk to any martial arts practioner, or a physicist....
flacudoc 4 years ago
"wow... your mind is very closed. you call yourself a scientist? not likely."
We should be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brain falls out.
"how much proof would you like?"
Something that I can read other than accusations of closed-mindedness would be a good start.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
well buddy, sorry, i dont think there is anything that can convince you... buy hey, i can show you studies that say viox is safe, and phen phen, and advil, and splenda, and.. and... and... but would you believe it still? guess you just go with what ever the latest study can "prove" to you huh?
flacudoc 4 years ago
Nothing can convince me? Why don't you let me be the judge of that? You yourself referenced experiments or studies that could show the existence of electrons. There are studies that you can perform that will show the effects of viox (even if some side effects aren't safe, we can still determine its effects). All I'm looking for is something similar for acupuncture.
Don't tell me that nothing will convince me before you even try to show me a single thing.
danmoore5000 4 years ago
Very nice treatment, It shows an acupuncturist with good knolage of the human body, in responce to JP Richadsons uneducated comments below, to study traditional Chinses medicine you must pass 4 years of western medical scince which covers level 7 (degree level) cell chemistry, blood circulation, nerve function, and the hormones and organ systems and all the substances which is why it is covered by insurence at the same level as many other western therapies.
AcuNZ 4 years ago
...and accupuncture does kill,my friend, by preventing seriously ill people from receiving proper treatment to their ailments. Of course, most acupuncture practitioners and supporting organizations only keep record of the "successful" cases. Besides, there have been cases of lung and bladder punctures, allergic reactions and infections. Oh, yes, acupuncture kills.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Dude stop smoking the cheap stuff! You obviously have an axe to grind and don't really care about any position but your own. You must be Republican.
kungfuyogi 4 years ago
hmm... sounds like some one has a chip on their shoulder! wow!
talk about negative!
i suppose the next thing you will say is that western medicine doesn't kill? what about all the meds that .. oops! are poison today but were the med of choice yesterday? what about all the "oops" surgery done? i treated a woman who had a hole in her stomach from a "mistake" made by her surgeon.. he got paid anyway, and then got paid to try and fix it. nice... and the list goes on.
flacudoc 4 years ago
I can't follow your logic. The existance of iatrogeny doesn't make accupuncture any more effective. Accupuncture doesn't work, it doesn't matter how innocuous their procedures might seem vs. real medicine. And promoting this stupid things through the web might lead someone to stop taking their medicine and migrate to a useless tretament. So it IS dangerous.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
The only thing that is dangerous is ignorance.
AcuIris 4 years ago
I couldn't agree more with you.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
I would like you all to check the official position of the US National Council Against Health Fraud on acupuncture: h tt p : // w ww(dot)ncahf(dot)org / pp / acu(dot)h tm l
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Traditional Chinese medicine is not based on knowledge of modern physiology, biochemistry, nutrition, anatomy, or any of the known mechanisms of healing. Nor is it based on knowledge of cell chemistry, blood circulation, nerve function, or the existence of hormones or other biochemical substances. There is no correlation between the meridians used in traditional Chinese medicine and the actual layout of the organs and nerves in the human body.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Did you do the google I asked you to do? All of these comments you say have "no correlation" exist. You have to just look beyond what you already think you know.
kungfuyogi 4 years ago
I would not complaint if they stop calling these sstupid things "medicine". Acupuncture does not help to treat any known illnesses, therefore, does who practice it are charlatans. All these new age nonsense "alternative treatments" are responsible for the death of thousands of people every year.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Do some medical research on the point of Pericardium 6. Western Medicine recognizes the effects of this point. I am currently a student at a Western Medical school and have seen the literature. The fact that you called Oriental Medicine "new age" also shows you have not done your research. Oriental medicine has been around for about 4,000 years.
cfengler 4 years ago
I am sorry to know that you are about to become a new charlatan. So you think that the possible effect of puncturing a single point in the body validates a whole discipline that is suppossed to cure almost every human illness????? You must be kidding. I call it new age idiocy since it was this movement who brought this from milenary china to occident. Study a real career.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Haha, alright, well you've proved you're close minded and not really up for this conversation. I can't wait til I run into you at your job. Just remember....I like cheese on my burgers. Peace.
cfengler 4 years ago
You're the acupuncturist, not me, so let the rest of the critical thinking people laught at your ignorance. I don't need to demonstrate a milenary discipline, previous to any modern medical knowledge, works or not. It should be YOU the ones working on it. Obviously, you have no arguments.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Omg. I tought this was a woman on the table until i saw the arm hair. XD
I dont think I'd ever do acupunture. Seeing how they were twisting those needles into his body makes you think twice.
camulan567 4 years ago
JPRichardson, there are actually 16 meridians, not 12. Also, the meridians all correspond to certain ailments. Specific points along those meridians correspond to even more diseases. The 11th point on the Large Intestine channel can be used for skin disorders, while any point along the lung channel can be used for a cough. There is a science to finding the points anatomically and inserting the needles painlessly and accessing the qi to get the "de qi" sensation is definitely an art.
cfengler 4 years ago
Do not include the word "science" on your dissertions about acupuncture. There is nothing scientific about it.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
If you do not have sufficient anatomical knowledge, i.e. a science background, you will fail miserably as an acupuncturist.
cfengler 4 years ago
Please just use google my friend. There has been tons of scientific research on acupuncture. Harvard and UCLA have done research on the effects of acupuncture on the human body. There is science. The NIH has approved acupuncture for the treatment of many diseases. You are misinformed. Also, acupuncture has not killed anyone. It is standard western med. that kills thousands of patients each year.
MemphisInternalArts 4 years ago
Actually, what there is are lots of attempts from acupuncturist to validate their discipline. There are LOTS of independent, scientific studies which have more than demonstrated acupuncture does not work better than placebo. As to authorities approving alternative therapies, well, homeopathy, another fraud, is the most recurred medicine in countries like Germany. Government cares about business more than about health. Watch your TV after 10:00 at night.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Cool video. How is your shoulder doing?
flip4life7 4 years ago
Hi Vince! Shoulder is back in full swing, :) Thanks for asking and I look forward to seeing you soon! MKG/Robin
MemphisKaliGroup 4 years ago
You keep expanding your consciousness (LOL) , but when you are seriously ill, your needles will not help. What you do is hurting people by preventing them from treating their illments properly. You are a criminal.
JPRichardson 4 years ago
Don't you think that is a little extreme? People choose to come into my clinic. Many people come to me because they can not get help anywhere else or their doctors brush them off. That is criminal.
MemphisInternalArts 4 years ago
(here, in Quebec, french part of Canada; they say that a professional doctorate will be set in few years and then those who would have been trained before would have the opportunity to complete their formation with this doctorate).
Do you know how it works, in your country (USA I guess?)? What other benefits did you derive from your treatments?
;)
ubertin 4 years ago
Thanks for the answer! Here a few more questions, if you have a little time to spare... :)
Did you ever have been treated with electro-acupuncture? You liked it? What do you think of the laser used in acupuncture?
Actually, I discovered acupuncture last summer, and I really find it amazing. I live in Canada and I'm about to finish a master degree, so I'm really considering to start again and go for the three years program in acupuncture
ubertin 4 years ago
Hi ubertin, I believe one or two of my sessions involved electro-acupuncture; which for me had no pain association; I was indifferent during its' applicaton; it was just part of the treatment. I highly recommend that you P.M. kungfuyogi for the licensing portion of your questions, just mention the video. We are in the USA, Tennessee. Thank you again for your comments and good luck! MKG/Robin
MemphisKaliGroup 4 years ago
Hi,
Could you explain me how works the moxa? Why is the skin going red? It can't be the heat, isn't it?
Thanks! :)
ubertin 4 years ago
Hi ubertin, as the patient this is how I understand the Moxa, the needles are inserted at the appropriate meridian points, when the needles are heated the heat conducts to the needlepoint breaking down any chi blocks and stimulating chi flow. The redness you see is not the skin but an ointment to protect the skin from falling ashes. If there is more to this possibly kungfuyogi can add. Thank you for your comment, MKG
MemphisKaliGroup 4 years ago
Here's the picture I'm seeing: someone has done 'a little reading', very apparent not nearly enough, just enough to show a long road ahead towards wisdom that comes with experience. Don't be afraid to walk through the doors that can expand your consciousness. You may need an acupuncturist much more than you realize and not for sticking you with any needles. How deep does the rabbit hole go?
MemphisKaliGroup 4 years ago
Here's the picture: a few thousand years before it was known that blood circulates or germs cause disease, doctors who had never dissected a frog, claimed that yin and yang could be balanced by inserting needles into the right points, among the hundreds of points strung along 12 meridians....Scientists suggest the needles stimulate release of endorphins. Jalapeno peppers do the same thing. So it wouldn't matter where you stick the needles would it? Then who needs an acupuncturist?
JPRichardson 4 years ago
I guess JPRichardson could be right. In Chinese Herbal Medicine herbs and foods do regulate yin and yang. Peppers would be labeled acrid and hot. Therefor,someone Cold/yin side could use the peppers to warm up. Harmonization of yin/yang would occur. If everyone knew how to balance their bodies through food...we would not need acupuncturits. But every now and then we need a little help.
Also, there are actually 72 meridians. Check the Manual of Acupuncture by Deadman.
MemphisInternalArts 4 years ago
kungfuyogi, does it work for helping one lose weight?
kalijasin 4 years ago
losing weight can be done with acupuncture.
sylvester134 4 years ago
does this work to iliminate anxiety/panick atacks?
mitziuk 4 years ago
Hello,
I am the acupuncturist that did the treatment on the video. Acupuncture does work really well for anxiety and panic attacks even during an acute phase. In fact, most of my patients fall asleep during their sessions.
Take Care,
Chuck
PS My arms don't look that hairy in real life. :-)
kungfuyogi 4 years ago