OC Firefighters Caught in Burnover on the 07 Santiago Fire

[engine1957]

Anyone who has ever fought enough fire will tell you no matter how careful you are you can get stuck in a bad spot. Im glad everyone was ok. God bless..

[sergeantdiessel]

im certified but havent went out yet and ive seen this video several times and it scary as hell

[jamiehamm10]

I' work for LA county fire and its hard to see that why they did not have a good escape route. He should have pulled the trigger way before that was their last option.i have been a firefighter for 12 years and would never put my crew at risk like that.Its only brush it will grow back. this is why i think oc fire needs to be taken over by cal fire. at least they would get the training they so badly need. who made that guy a captain anyways.

[TKOH2O]

I agree completely and I have only been a seasonal for 2 years going on my third and if that idiot was my captain I would just refuse to work. Let alone fight fire on a steep hill side with no escape route and fire above and below that just screams LOOK OUT

[sensordev]

@jamiehamm10 The crews were trying to keep the fire from jumping Santiago Canyon Road and threatening 700+ homes in a narrow steep-walled canyon. Eucalyptus trees on the other side of the road would intermittently send fire-balls across with a gust, not just embers. They went after the big spot up top and another came in below them, burning through their hose and leaving them in a jam. They took a calculated risk because it was important, and lived through it because they were well trained.

[FightingFire4U]

Til this day that video gives me the chills, but good and bad chills... The bad chills is the obvious. That Incident was a hairy one, holding a top 10 spot of difficult or unique incidents and that list is coming up on ten years old. The wind was hot,intense, consistantly blowing 50+, add 30 more to the gusts.the brush in that area is dead,it was dead for years before it took off that day. Light, flashy, and HOT. The good feeling is the captains calmness, it shows that Orco fire are pros!

[VolkgartenBySquirrel]

Why are short pine trees more dangerous in a wildfire? Thank you for posting this video. I had no idea that a brush fire could burn over like this; it went vertical awfully quick. With twinkie wrappers training is definitely a factor!

[MetalWolfReaper]

because the fuel that has less volume or area burns faster, what would be hotter and more dangerous, a lot of burned grass, or a large tree that would take longer to burn

[VolkgartenBySquirrel]

Aha! Pine needles = large surface area like grass. Like sawdust, fabs and granary explosions. Short pines would mean turpene gas clouds with flare spits - close to you instead of 50 feet up, which is bad enough. Gak. I remember my dad used to start a barbecue with pine cones, no lighter fluid. Burned grass it is. Thanks - !

[bryjhag]

the fire shelter is designed to reflect convective heat and will withstand that kind of heat for a while where as radiant heat or direct contact from the flame to the fire shelter will destroy it in a matter of a minute or less...the fire shelter is the last line and shouldnt be relied upon to save your ass...you need to be aware of your surroundings and pay attention to the big picture so that doesn't happen. those guys are lucky and i am amazed at how calm the squad boss remained through it.

[cboy4]

I'm sweating.

Wow.

[blinko656]

Nice job guys, excellemt communocation. That stuff happens - good lookout.

Mike

Retired FF

[hstambaugh]

Been there done that. Sometimes you can run, most of the time you can run, but if you eat smoke long enough, you're going to have to deploy that tater skin, and it is going to save your life. Between weather, widowmakers, amateur backsetters, and pine trees that are just a little too short, its nice to know that you have a guardian angel on your belt.

[USWFA]

No one!!..has any business what so ever on a wildfire without a shelter..one change in wind and it can be your ass..faster than you know!..I have deployed 2 times in my career!..and I pray to GOD none of you ever have too!!

[Hannoi]

Can someone explain to me how exactly those shelters work.

How long can they stay under?

How long does a burnover last?

[Firefighter11A]

"How long can they stay under?"

All depends on the intensity of the heat, Guess the best answer to you would be: Till they die or run out of oxygen.

"How long does a burnover last?"

Again all depends on the size & density of the fuel burning around them.. From minuets to hours..

[mddm11772]

@Firefighter11A The Fire Shelters can only Stand until they material itself reaches 500 degrees i think before the Glue itself begins to break down and the shelter falls apart.

[bryjhag]

the shelters reflect radiant heat not direct flame. a burnover could last as little as a few seconds to several minutes...it all depends on the type of fuels the fire is burning in, humidity,temperature,wind,etc.­.. and someone could stay in a shelter as long as the fire is near...and when you deploy you have to be able to keep a good seal to the ground and otherwise the superheated gases will come in and you will asphyxiate as a few of my comrades learned the hard way 8 years ago in WA. state

[bryjhag]

oops i kinda typoed there...oh well i know what i meant

[gibsonCat100]

@Hannoi the shelters work in that it deflects the radiant heat meaning that the heat that comes towards you is reflescted partly. But will still get how but still its better than breathing in hot gasses which you could die from instantly. And in staying in the shelters you stay in it for as long as you have to. Anywhere from a minute to more than 2 hours. would you rather get burned and die quickly or live. it;s all about commitment yo.

[sensordev]

@Hannoi

They were in the shelters about 18 minutes, some said it seemed much longer, a couple when asked estimated 5 to 10 minutes. A very subjective experience.

[sensordev]

@Hannoi They were in the shelters about 18 minutes, some said it seemed much longer, a couple when asked estimated 5 to 10 minutes. A very subjective experience.

[5c4v3ng3r]

they were like potatoes in alu :D

[USWFA]

I have been in wildland fire for over 30 years..and having deployed 2 times in my career...Some crews have done ok in deployment..and..some have not...wildfire is the most unpredictable thing mother nature has to throw at us...no one is perfect in this business and some bad decisions have been made..and some have been for the good..I hope nobody has to deploy a shelter in there career...it will stay with you for the rest of your lives..it is hard to shake it..Be safe with a good season!

[elementskateguy]

i evecuated cuz of this lol :(

[sensordev]

Just found out from people on the crews at this incident that the jump was caused by a row of eucalyptus trees planted on the other side of the road some 25 years ago as view mitigation for a gravel mining operation. Talk about your basic unintended consequences, and the things are ugly as sin anyway. Hardy too, they're already recovering from the burn whereas many of the live-oaks are not.

[sensordev]

Location is Orange County, Santiago Cyn. Rd. near Silverado. The crew got into the bad situation because wind-driven fire jumped the road to threaten three populated canyons where it did destroy 14 homes. They knew the damage potential unless the jump was put out so they attacked in terrain that they otherwise might not have chanced. Our son was in one of the shelters, which he mentioned casually some days later. We didn't know the whole story until it came out via NBC & the L.A. Times.

[noddy4464]

Thank you to all of these firefighters. They are true heoes!

[OneSkiWonder]

Is there any way you could email me this video? This would work great in my S130/S190 class.

[HDFireFighter]

No it's way to large for email.. If you want it, you could send me $5.00 and I will Burn it to a DVD and Mail it to you.. That's what it will cost me..

[OneSkiWonder]

Does the DVD movie have the computer noises in the background?

[fyrstan]

hey canada firefighter, if you had fires the way we do in So. Cal you'd start wearing shelters. We deal with the one of the best ecosystems in the world to support Hot, Motivated wildfires. Come on down for a summer and take a look for yourself.

[USWFA]

Amen to that brother..Cali has some of the most fierce fires I have ever been on...some in Canada do have shelters...any agency that does not provide shelters for there crews..need not be in the wildfire business..because they dont give 2 shits about there people!!

[RasRooMan]

I've been on a couple fires with some Canadian crews.. And NONE of them had shelters.. and couldn't work worth a fuck either... They said shelters gave people a sense of false hope.. I don't care how false it is, I'LL TAKE IT....

[manysticks]

The reason that canadian fire crews don't carry fire shelters anymore is because you should never be in a place where you can get burned over.  Shelters make people think they can get into places they shouldn't be and take unnecessary risks with a false sense of security.

[Firefighter11A]

Subject: SHAKE & BAKE.....

I would agree that this is the case for some, But NOT ALL, No one's perfect and Fire is very unpredictable, and if that day comes, one makes the wrong choice or fate plays a number on you, Its nice to have something that may or may not save your life.. But thanks for posting this, it may make some Brothers think twice..

Tom, aka T-Bone

[cougaspatupa]

That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. That's like saying fighter jets should have their ejection seats taken out because the pilot's should not crash them. You should always have a backup safety plan. Thats rule number one of firefighting. If you aren't supposed to be in a situation where a fire shelter could not possibly be needed, then you would never fight wildfires, which is why you live in Canada...

[Heavyweightking70]

That is the most reckless thing I have ever heard.

[manysticks]

@Heavyweightking70 It may seem reckless but its been years since a Canadian wildland firefighter has been killed by being burned-over. With effective LACES it will minimize the risk. Things can still happen and people have been in some close calls but those things happen anyway with a shelter or not. Shelters are bulky and its extra weight so it was deemed non-essential.  Identify when its time to pull out early. Its obviously working and crews I work with say they dont miss a shelter at all

[wildfiree21]

@manysticks negative....shelters save lives....no1 can predict the weather...the change of path or speed in a fire all depends on weather.

[manysticks]

@wildfiree21 Yes people have been saved by shelters. No denying that. Fire behavior is a mix of fuel, weather and topography. Know all three and pull back when there are changes. Keep people out of harms way before the need for shelters. Hindsight is 20/20 but look at the common denominators of tragedy fires and you'll see where mistakes keep getting made. Shelters are a false sense of security, knowledge of fire behavior is critical, and yes it can be predicted.

[wildfiree21]

@manysticks you wouldn't catch me on the line without 1.

[manysticks]

@wildfiree21 Either way, stay safe out there.

[Boardingmedic]

This isn't LA fire

It's Orange County (OCFA) at the Santago fire Oct. 07

[Firefighter11A]

It was in the LA Times and I was told it was an LA fire that Orange County FF had been dispatched too.. Are you sure? If you know the real details of this incident, Please send it to me and I will change it.. But be sure.. Thanks

[stihlteri]

Thanks for sharing! Great LESSONS LEARNED!

[deadbird14]

this is a great vid for training it really shows how fast thing can turn bad. It also show why air support can never be relied on when you need it most it not there.

[FFahall]

Thank you for this video I am so glad the crews left that safe