the idea of this kind of music isn't to express some ideas through "musical sounds", but to recreate everyday real sounds in a different manner than in daily life. Listening process in this case is a pure auditory experience, but the difference from day to day experience is that the emphasis is on the sounds, when in real life we never just hear sounds of things, but we also touch, see, may be taste and smell things.
I'll admit, the cactus was pretty interesting, but after that I'm sorry... but no.. and it just doesn't sound like music to me, it just sounds like him just hitting random objects together half the time.
When I read some of these comments I'm ironically inspired to say, leave John Cage out of this. This "composition" is more a recipe for an individual to have a special experience, and to get to know the world -- through listening to, generally silent, objects. The piece is just a subtle little suggestion to listen, once again. At times, in this performance, music is suggested, or sounds are suggested for music's sake. Another suggestion: music isn't always needed.
@nobodady1 looking for a special expierence, or to get to know the world better? whynot go for a walk in the wilderness off a beaten path. Listen to the wind in the branches, the leaves under your feet, close your eyes and breath in the air, touch the plant life as you walk by. I mean no disrespect to this man, but to take some of natures objects and put it in a performance setting with a microphone and try to explore sound and feeling seems to be defeating the purpose he is trying to achieve
@420jaymac Indeed why not go for that walk? I am glad that you do not disrespect what he is doing. I just don't understand how his way of investigating the world in this way defeats the purpose. The purpose is not merely for Cage to have a private experience but a shared one. I am sure most people do not get close enough to a cactus to listen. The microphone shares and magnifies this little secret about them.
@nobodady1 True, most people probably dont get close enough to a cactus to listen, me included :) I am a fan of alot of John Cage's work, he has explored sound like no other, and shows people what can be found in common or uncommon environments. I guess what I meant in terms of defeating the purpose is people can go and expierence this on their own, (minus the cactus) in a natural environment which gives a much stronger effect on many levels.
@420jaymac Perhaps this piece, as well as many others of Cage, serve as invitations to do exactly as you propose. I sympathize with the notion that experiencing these sounds in a natural environment is more effective. However, importing natural objects, and more "natural" listening behavior (as opposed to the listening behavior associated with being an "audience" member consuming an artistic production) may add something new to the artificial environment, and may suggest other additions.
When I read some of these comments I'm ironically inspired to say, leave John Cage out of this. This "composition" is more a recipe for an individual to have a special experience, and to get to know the world -- through listening to, generally silent, objects. The piece is just a subtle little suggestion to listen, once again. At times, in this performance, music is suggested, or sounds are suggested for music's sake. Still, we don't need music to listen well.
Where did you find your seed pod? I'm in the process of ordering the score and getting ready to prepare the piece, but cannot find a poinciana seed pod anywhere (aside from one on ebay for nearly $30 shipped). Any tips on how to get a hold of one? Thanks.
some sort of barcus berry microphone. get a cactus with big prickers and a lot of surface area so you can get the microphone on there with sticky two way tape. they certainly have new models so check out what they have and see what might work with your cactus. customer service was good so call them if you have any questions. be well and good luck!
i don't consider this minimalism. there's no real repetition of a theme or rhythm or melody. i consider this to be chance music. music based on a chance operation - in this case the i ching.
Why do people question whether this is music? I am not a fan of Eminem but his music is hugely popular and there must be a reason for that. John Cage's music is also hugely popular (within its niche obviously) and there is a reason for that as well.
A lot of work went into the final product that is this video: production, performance, practice, planning, "finding" and also the composing. Think about that.
@markmo44 when something can be hugely popular within a very small niche, you completely destroy the meaning of the words just as john cage has destroyed the meaning of music. The compositional work that went into this could have been thrown together in 5 minutes. FIVE MINUTES. I love the sounds of nature, but let nature play her instrument, not this guy.
sure is butthurt video in here. Tell me, why is this music. And DON'T simply attack the videos in my profile. We are having a discussion like an adult. Protip: I never stated an opinion anywhere in this comment about the video. I am merely asking you to OBJECTIVELY tell me why this is 'music'
Hey Well done i really want to play this piece and i have the score i just haven't given my self the time to sit down and decipher cage's scribbled out words. awesome job though! awesome piece
The sheer amount of negativity towards this is insane. This is a very well-performed piece, and one I'm considering for my recital this year. What's the difference between making noise with trees and plants than with drums and triangles? What's the difference between that and playing a polite major scale on piano? I commend you, Kevin, for supporting the work of John Cage, truly one of the most important musical thinkers of any generation, period.
@alicelerobo I'll tell you the difference. Music composed with stable frequencies is much more psychologically engaging than this, and that is science. The tones in conventional music give very specific emotions, and even the slightest bit of reorientation of those tones changes the emotion you feel. However, he could have crumpled that plant at any time, scraped that rock, and flicked his needled any time, and it wouldnt effect the emotional effect.
@khbgkh That's entirely true, but we aren't dealing with tonal music. Not a "tonality vs. atonal" kind of tonal, but actual pitches. There is none, so those rules are thrown out the window. This is just art, but using sound. I don't listen to this like I listen to Shostakovich, nor like I listen to Xenakis percussion music. It is its own thing, and either you appreciate it or you don't. I do, and I just don't understand where insulting it gets anybody.
@alicelerobo Because the same people who advocate for this type of music frequently disregard old music as if it is unimportant, when in fact it is a million times more important historically and culturally than this little blip in music history will ever be. Because advocates of this "music" call it so, and in such a casual manner as to imply that john cage and the beatles are one in the same. The word soundscape is much more accurate than music in this case.
@khbgkh Old music is obviously very important, but so is the music and sound art that happened for the entirety of the last century. It's pretty ignorant of anybody to dismiss an entire era or genre of music. I may not like Mozart, and I don't, but I recognize that without him I wouldn't have Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Schoenberg, Berg, Stockhausen, and yes, even John Cage. If it gets people to think about and engage in music then it is good for music, and that makes it important. Cage matters.
@alicelerobo but that is my point. Cage is just a composer with some radical ideas, none of which impacted music in a way comparable to mozart. Very few people know John Cage's name, and even fewer know any piece other than 4'33" that he "composed."
@khbgkh Does popularity now indicate quality? if that's the case, Justin Bieber is a musical genius beyond the realm of every composer past, present, and foreseeable future.
@jacoismyhero That's not the point. The point is when an artist is liked in extreme amounts, whether their fanbase is extremely small or extremely large, there are always plenty of extramusical reasons for their fame. John Cage has very few fans, and even fewer of those fans truly like his music. Many are fans of cage simply because it is different, and do not value it for its specific difference.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
you have to kno this is not music. i mean, there's avant-garde, but this, this is grinding stones together. it's not even rhythmic.very lame. although i did like the dried gourd. very stupid. stupid people clapping for this.
John Cage is arguably one of the most prolific composers of the 20th century. But that's beside the point. The point was to question what music is. You just didn't get it. Just like you didn't get your guitar strings tuned on your guitar on the piece you are playing near what seems to be candles by a campfire. Post again and I'll block for good.
@kevindufford If the point of the piece is to question "What is music?" then I think the answer portrayed here is that this is not music. I understand the point of the piece and I can't comfortably say this is music. I'm sure you will get butthurt though and make fun of my channel profile instead of discussing with me like an adult though. How about you tell me if this is music or not?
@kevindufford the questioning of what music really is does not make it good music. At music's simplest definition it is organized sound. The only pervading theme in this piece is the cactus, and I'm sorry, that's just not enough. Not to mention John Cage need not have a fully formed idea for his compositions, but just a vague notion that it might sound interesting to put a microphone on a cactus. This is pure novelty.
@HxHenry Cage's -music- was, to him, just sounds. This was enough to constitute music, for him, and it's enough for everyone else. More importantly, it is not up to the listener to determine what is and isn't music.
Kevin,
Wonderfully performed. I really like the way the times worked out -it gave the piece the right kind of natural feel for the most appropriate instruments. I'm a fan.
@HxHenry Why do you have to say stuff like that? Why do you have to say that something isn't music? Do you think you're defending the sanctity of music by what you're saying? You're not.
Where can I acquire this score? I am absolutely fascinated by this piece after seeing the three recordings of it uploaded here. Great performance, by the way!
Thanks for your comments! It's really nice to get positive feedback. I believe I ordered the piece through one of two online percussion stores.
1. steve weiss
2. percussion source
One of these stores will certainly have a score. Don't be afraid when you see the score because it is just basically written out instructions. I would start to do some research on the I Ching. That will give you a good foundation once the score arrives.
Thank you very much! Yes, I am familiar with Cage's style of score, and yes, I do think I am going to commit a fair amount of time to studying I Ching.
The I Ching is basically a way of forming a chance operation. That is a very short answer for a complicated subject. In the case of this piece the operation is used to choose instruments and determine the number of sections and how long each section will be. It is of Chinese origin. There is a great deal of information online and numerous books on the subject. Thanks for your comments! Good Luck!
This is really aweome. I really like your choice of instruments, you picked some very appropriate sounds that speek well. I've been intrested in learning a Cage piece for some time...what is the "I Ching" that you mention in the info?
cool man. now there are 2 videos of this piece. But why you use toothpicks? I know this was an option in his instructions, but c'mon. When I did it, I used fingers....Harder to hear, but more natural, pure sound from the needles...cool
WOW - where did you get that HUGE pod rattle? I am playing this piece now and would love to have a pod rattle like yours.
analorenzo 4 days ago
Fail: 4:20
leandrobern 1 month ago
the idea of this kind of music isn't to express some ideas through "musical sounds", but to recreate everyday real sounds in a different manner than in daily life. Listening process in this case is a pure auditory experience, but the difference from day to day experience is that the emphasis is on the sounds, when in real life we never just hear sounds of things, but we also touch, see, may be taste and smell things.
TheEdgarvarese12 2 months ago
beautiful
neurochris 6 months ago
I'll admit, the cactus was pretty interesting, but after that I'm sorry... but no.. and it just doesn't sound like music to me, it just sounds like him just hitting random objects together half the time.
BigSizzle100 8 months ago
This song is damn catchy.
artman40 8 months ago 2
Ophlia, The Seasons. Oh and In the Name of the Holocaust is one of the best panio pieces ever written. Shall I go on?
Giganfan2k1 9 months ago
F U. Lots of my fellow orchestra mates love john cage for his music.
Giganfan2k1 9 months ago
When I read some of these comments I'm ironically inspired to say, leave John Cage out of this. This "composition" is more a recipe for an individual to have a special experience, and to get to know the world -- through listening to, generally silent, objects. The piece is just a subtle little suggestion to listen, once again. At times, in this performance, music is suggested, or sounds are suggested for music's sake. Another suggestion: music isn't always needed.
nobodady1 10 months ago
@nobodady1 looking for a special expierence, or to get to know the world better? whynot go for a walk in the wilderness off a beaten path. Listen to the wind in the branches, the leaves under your feet, close your eyes and breath in the air, touch the plant life as you walk by. I mean no disrespect to this man, but to take some of natures objects and put it in a performance setting with a microphone and try to explore sound and feeling seems to be defeating the purpose he is trying to achieve
420jaymac 8 months ago
@420jaymac Indeed why not go for that walk? I am glad that you do not disrespect what he is doing. I just don't understand how his way of investigating the world in this way defeats the purpose. The purpose is not merely for Cage to have a private experience but a shared one. I am sure most people do not get close enough to a cactus to listen. The microphone shares and magnifies this little secret about them.
nobodady1 8 months ago
@nobodady1 True, most people probably dont get close enough to a cactus to listen, me included :) I am a fan of alot of John Cage's work, he has explored sound like no other, and shows people what can be found in common or uncommon environments. I guess what I meant in terms of defeating the purpose is people can go and expierence this on their own, (minus the cactus) in a natural environment which gives a much stronger effect on many levels.
420jaymac 8 months ago
@420jaymac Perhaps this piece, as well as many others of Cage, serve as invitations to do exactly as you propose. I sympathize with the notion that experiencing these sounds in a natural environment is more effective. However, importing natural objects, and more "natural" listening behavior (as opposed to the listening behavior associated with being an "audience" member consuming an artistic production) may add something new to the artificial environment, and may suggest other additions.
nobodady1 8 months ago
When I read some of these comments I'm ironically inspired to say, leave John Cage out of this. This "composition" is more a recipe for an individual to have a special experience, and to get to know the world -- through listening to, generally silent, objects. The piece is just a subtle little suggestion to listen, once again. At times, in this performance, music is suggested, or sounds are suggested for music's sake. Still, we don't need music to listen well.
nobodady1 10 months ago
Where did you find your seed pod? I'm in the process of ordering the score and getting ready to prepare the piece, but cannot find a poinciana seed pod anywhere (aside from one on ebay for nearly $30 shipped). Any tips on how to get a hold of one? Thanks.
jacoismyhero 11 months ago
There is something thats just so charming about this piece!
DarkZekeX 11 months ago
some sort of barcus berry microphone. get a cactus with big prickers and a lot of surface area so you can get the microphone on there with sticky two way tape. they certainly have new models so check out what they have and see what might work with your cactus. customer service was good so call them if you have any questions. be well and good luck!
kevindufford 1 year ago
@kevindufford mmmm I think it's frequnze emphasized during post production, or a scenic microphone very close to cactus
Hidalgos81 3 months ago
What kind of microphone is used? Contact mic? I'm wondering for the cactus specifically.
SmileysRevenge100 1 year ago
i don't consider this minimalism. there's no real repetition of a theme or rhythm or melody. i consider this to be chance music. music based on a chance operation - in this case the i ching.
kevindufford 1 year ago 7
minmlsm sucks
fckingkeelurslf 1 year ago
Great job! I LOVE your pod rattle!
Why do people question whether this is music? I am not a fan of Eminem but his music is hugely popular and there must be a reason for that. John Cage's music is also hugely popular (within its niche obviously) and there is a reason for that as well.
A lot of work went into the final product that is this video: production, performance, practice, planning, "finding" and also the composing. Think about that.
Well done!
markmo44 1 year ago
@markmo44 when something can be hugely popular within a very small niche, you completely destroy the meaning of the words just as john cage has destroyed the meaning of music. The compositional work that went into this could have been thrown together in 5 minutes. FIVE MINUTES. I love the sounds of nature, but let nature play her instrument, not this guy.
khbgkh 11 months ago
sure is butthurt video in here. Tell me, why is this music. And DON'T simply attack the videos in my profile. We are having a discussion like an adult. Protip: I never stated an opinion anywhere in this comment about the video. I am merely asking you to OBJECTIVELY tell me why this is 'music'
MW2Firewall 1 year ago
Hey Well done i really want to play this piece and i have the score i just haven't given my self the time to sit down and decipher cage's scribbled out words. awesome job though! awesome piece
kampsjp31 1 year ago
A beautiful, almost minimalist piece. I love it.
emphaticleech 1 year ago
The sheer amount of negativity towards this is insane. This is a very well-performed piece, and one I'm considering for my recital this year. What's the difference between making noise with trees and plants than with drums and triangles? What's the difference between that and playing a polite major scale on piano? I commend you, Kevin, for supporting the work of John Cage, truly one of the most important musical thinkers of any generation, period.
alicelerobo 1 year ago
@alicelerobo I'll tell you the difference. Music composed with stable frequencies is much more psychologically engaging than this, and that is science. The tones in conventional music give very specific emotions, and even the slightest bit of reorientation of those tones changes the emotion you feel. However, he could have crumpled that plant at any time, scraped that rock, and flicked his needled any time, and it wouldnt effect the emotional effect.
khbgkh 11 months ago
@khbgkh That's entirely true, but we aren't dealing with tonal music. Not a "tonality vs. atonal" kind of tonal, but actual pitches. There is none, so those rules are thrown out the window. This is just art, but using sound. I don't listen to this like I listen to Shostakovich, nor like I listen to Xenakis percussion music. It is its own thing, and either you appreciate it or you don't. I do, and I just don't understand where insulting it gets anybody.
alicelerobo 11 months ago
@alicelerobo Because the same people who advocate for this type of music frequently disregard old music as if it is unimportant, when in fact it is a million times more important historically and culturally than this little blip in music history will ever be. Because advocates of this "music" call it so, and in such a casual manner as to imply that john cage and the beatles are one in the same. The word soundscape is much more accurate than music in this case.
khbgkh 11 months ago
@khbgkh Old music is obviously very important, but so is the music and sound art that happened for the entirety of the last century. It's pretty ignorant of anybody to dismiss an entire era or genre of music. I may not like Mozart, and I don't, but I recognize that without him I wouldn't have Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Schoenberg, Berg, Stockhausen, and yes, even John Cage. If it gets people to think about and engage in music then it is good for music, and that makes it important. Cage matters.
alicelerobo 11 months ago
@alicelerobo but that is my point. Cage is just a composer with some radical ideas, none of which impacted music in a way comparable to mozart. Very few people know John Cage's name, and even fewer know any piece other than 4'33" that he "composed."
khbgkh 11 months ago
@khbgkh John Cage popularized prepared piano. That was a pretty big impact in music. Enough said.
Amandacelkins 11 months ago
@khbgkh Does popularity now indicate quality? if that's the case, Justin Bieber is a musical genius beyond the realm of every composer past, present, and foreseeable future.
jacoismyhero 11 months ago
@jacoismyhero That's not the point. The point is when an artist is liked in extreme amounts, whether their fanbase is extremely small or extremely large, there are always plenty of extramusical reasons for their fame. John Cage has very few fans, and even fewer of those fans truly like his music. Many are fans of cage simply because it is different, and do not value it for its specific difference.
khbgkh 11 months ago
@khbgkh I'd like you to cite the sources of this "science" you mention.
DarkZekeX 10 months ago
very nice. how did you amplify the cactus?
SensoryOssuary 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
you have to kno this is not music. i mean, there's avant-garde, but this, this is grinding stones together. it's not even rhythmic.very lame. although i did like the dried gourd. very stupid. stupid people clapping for this.
HxHenry 1 year ago
John Cage is arguably one of the most prolific composers of the 20th century. But that's beside the point. The point was to question what music is. You just didn't get it. Just like you didn't get your guitar strings tuned on your guitar on the piece you are playing near what seems to be candles by a campfire. Post again and I'll block for good.
kevindufford 1 year ago 4
@kevindufford If the point of the piece is to question "What is music?" then I think the answer portrayed here is that this is not music. I understand the point of the piece and I can't comfortably say this is music. I'm sure you will get butthurt though and make fun of my channel profile instead of discussing with me like an adult though. How about you tell me if this is music or not?
MW2Firewall 1 year ago
@kevindufford the questioning of what music really is does not make it good music. At music's simplest definition it is organized sound. The only pervading theme in this piece is the cactus, and I'm sorry, that's just not enough. Not to mention John Cage need not have a fully formed idea for his compositions, but just a vague notion that it might sound interesting to put a microphone on a cactus. This is pure novelty.
khbgkh 11 months ago
@HxHenry Cage's -music- was, to him, just sounds. This was enough to constitute music, for him, and it's enough for everyone else. More importantly, it is not up to the listener to determine what is and isn't music.
Kevin,
Wonderfully performed. I really like the way the times worked out -it gave the piece the right kind of natural feel for the most appropriate instruments. I'm a fan.
GreatPercussionist 1 year ago
@HxHenry Why do you have to say stuff like that? Why do you have to say that something isn't music? Do you think you're defending the sanctity of music by what you're saying? You're not.
DarkZekeX 11 months ago
wierd, but there is potential. Give those guys that bang on trash cans a go at it. I bet they could do a much better job.
BrandyScraps 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
what a freak... this is really stupid.
vAndrooov 2 years ago
I find this very interesting. Its not what I'm used to. Good job. :)
TyeWatson 2 years ago
another beautiful composition of music. :)
loserofnothing 2 years ago 3
Where can I acquire this score? I am absolutely fascinated by this piece after seeing the three recordings of it uploaded here. Great performance, by the way!
JoeSiren 2 years ago
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your comments! It's really nice to get positive feedback. I believe I ordered the piece through one of two online percussion stores.
1. steve weiss
2. percussion source
One of these stores will certainly have a score. Don't be afraid when you see the score because it is just basically written out instructions. I would start to do some research on the I Ching. That will give you a good foundation once the score arrives.
Good Luck!
kevindufford 2 years ago
Thank you very much! Yes, I am familiar with Cage's style of score, and yes, I do think I am going to commit a fair amount of time to studying I Ching.
JoeSiren 2 years ago
@kevindufford how can you read the hand written score?.. its so hard to read..
vic225 10 months ago
The I Ching is basically a way of forming a chance operation. That is a very short answer for a complicated subject. In the case of this piece the operation is used to choose instruments and determine the number of sections and how long each section will be. It is of Chinese origin. There is a great deal of information online and numerous books on the subject. Thanks for your comments! Good Luck!
kevindufford 2 years ago
This is really aweome. I really like your choice of instruments, you picked some very appropriate sounds that speek well. I've been intrested in learning a Cage piece for some time...what is the "I Ching" that you mention in the info?
chickenwiretire 2 years ago
cool man. now there are 2 videos of this piece. But why you use toothpicks? I know this was an option in his instructions, but c'mon. When I did it, I used fingers....Harder to hear, but more natural, pure sound from the needles...cool
gkdstudios 2 years ago
Great job!
CClarino 2 years ago 2