After looking at some videos I have to say, OCFM is not a martial art, but rather a set of principles that can be used by existing martial artists, also all the techniques I have seen practised already exist in to-shin do.
I've studied To Shin Do years ago at the Hombu dojo I believe Jerry Shadoan was teaching classes while I was there. I was also a member of the Bujinkan dojo.Your right about OCFM being principle based but Russell's teaching go way beyond what you'll learn in either of those systems.I'm talking from experiece.The problem with both To Shin Do and Bujinkan is all attacks are toned down and they do not practice with real intent. I've been doing martial arts for 28 years and OCFM is the way to go.
And I don't train like they do in the hombu. Take the strawman arguments elsewhere and stop playing "My art is better than your art" look at how many comments Ive already had saying that. It is getting incredibly tedious. Also, I don't believe for a second that you actually trained with someone in the Hombu and it was unrealistic, Mr Hayes, Norris and Polinquin to name a few have always done it realistically and they kick my ass all day and dont get tired no matter how hard I try to attack them.
It's in Birkenhead, Wirral, in the U.K. There are lots of to-shin do dojo in the world so I'm sure you'll find one near you, there's a list on the official site.
that kasumi is a joke...thats not kasumi at all...not even remotely. oh my god this shits so watered down. the way their using their kasumi completely makes the purpose of kasumi nullified
3) to avoid "2)" and kill the opponent quickly, and this sidestep/stab is one way that this could have been done. Of course there is a limitless amount of cuts that can be done from kasumi. Also, if it's "NOT EVEN REMOTELY" kasumi then why do all the books by both Mr Hayes and Hatsumi label it as "Kasumi no Kamae" or the "haze stance". Also your strawman argument is pathetic.
i've perused a page of these comments and found no biggotry (sp?), maceioninjutsu, but despite this you do seem rather clued up. So let me ask- what's the deal with shinobi-kai; are you familiar? for better / for worse?
I've heard lots of things about the shinobi kai, some good and some bad, it could be they have bad press, or it could be that they aren't too good... :( It's hard to know without training with them yourself.
the founders of shinobi kai claim to have studied and graded under both hatsumi sensei and tanemura sensei ( to dan level), before forming the shinobi kai. As with any art, I would suggest you spend sometime training with them so you can form your own opinion. they obviously use techniques from bujinkan/genbukan so unless you give them a try it's hard to say if they are 'for better/for worse' check out some of their videos on here and decide for yourself! : )
I recommend bujinkan instead of hayes (toshindo) water downed ninjutsu, I suggest you train with hatsumi sensei, instead of this greedy white guy lacking real skill; mr hayes him self. overall good technique brother, Arigato
Don't worry maceioninjutsu I'm perfectly capable of discerning whether someone has real skill or not, and having trained with Mr Hayes at the UK seminar, I have no doubt that he is "lacking real skill" I would never speak against soke so please show the same degree of respect and dont make these ungrounded claims against anshu, it's bad manners.
if you speak against hatsumi thats your opinion. I know people from years back that trained with hayes, and hayes iss not what hes cracked up to be. Stephan k. hayes was giving out rank and he wasnt at that level he left before he could really learn (captialize)= making money, from the ninja boom in the 80s, and hayes was teaching people when he was a green belt acting like he was a black belt (shadows of iga)etc. my question is why learn an art form a low class black belt when you can from
READ MY POST. I said I would NEVER speak against Soke Hatsumi, and get your facts straight: Anshu has NEVER called himself a grandmaster of anything INCLUDING To-shin Do and Bujinkan/Ninjutsu/whatever, and I'm sure that (even though his certificate was taken down etc. etc.) Hatsumi doesnt just hand out 10th DEGREE BLACK BELTS TO ANY OLD LOW CLASS GUY. Please get your facts straight, read posts through more to avoid embarrassing youself and take this kind of hateful jealous talk somewhere else.
Thats how I know you dont have any ideal what your saying. in hombu dojo hatsumi sensei doesn't care about rank its the foreigners that care. Hatsumi sensei will give anyone a black belt if they want it he doesnt care. alot them 14th and 15th dan I ask them how much did they pay for their rank lol. If you knew what go on you wouldn't have stated what you had. Im not hating on hayes just speaking the truth... by the way if you knew the truth instead of half truths you would stop embarrassing self
Im obviously wasting my time, and you can reply with whatever you like, but you have obviously never trained with Mr Hayes. If belt rank is not important, than why does hatsumi have it in the bujinkan? BTW what belt rank are you? NVM you could just ask for whatever one you wanted right? Thats the type of response I'm used to getting from you crass, chirlish ill-educated keyboard warriors. I'm not going to respond to you again as I'm teaching a pig to sing here, I waste my time and annoy the pig.
Also, as a final little embarassment, the video you posted not only relies of facts DIRECTLY QUOTED FROM WIKIPEDIA AND BULLSHIDO (non-factual/editable sites) but he also says the age old problems with Hatsumi at the end, about how Hatsumi wont hand over his scrolls to be verified by historians etc. so what it comes down to is: Which "fake" do I train with? The one who holds on to (not necissarily bad) traditions, OR the one who modernised the art to be a better self-defence art?...
I don't care if To-shin Do (or bujinkan for that matter) is PURE/TRUE/AUTHENTIC! All i care about is learning an art that works, and To-shin Do definately does work, and from what I've seen in videos of the bujinkan, it's more suited to the modern world, as (opposed to popular belief) not everyone attacks with a classical lunge punch anymore.
my my my a bit of agragent and somewhat of a small biggit. 5th dan for your question. I wasnt talking about the part with hatsumi I was talking about the part with mrs hayes. talking to you is like trying to teach a blind man to see, you are a true 85%er
Ive had to block you,as you are no longer voicing opinion you are insulting others,posting seriously slanderous and harmful comments and youve ventured way off topic from the video and into the HAYES IS BAD AND HATSUMI IS REALLY GOOD BECUASE I TRAIN WITH HIM!Its your opinion and you are entitled to it,but you are an idiot and I feel really sorry for you.Not for training in the BJK,because many members are skilled,just because you cant listen to why I train! As in the ninja way:"whatever works".
lol!! another big fan of mr hayes eh? you may do well to spend less time and energy slating mr hayes and what he has done with his bujinkan training. as for mr hayes teaching 'watered down' ninjutsu, i'd like to point out alot of to-shin do practitioners come from a bujinkan background and decided to go for to-shin do because of its relevance to modern day situations. some of our shihan/master instructors reached senior ranks in bujinkan (godan and above) before studying to-shin do. thankyou
the grandmaster him self? what can you say about soke? besides he's mr.hayes sensei. "you know what" im going a stephan hayes Im going to train for about 1 year and a half or two and call myself a grandmaster
Alright To-Shin Do UK! That was great form on the part of the students testing, and Mr. Hesketh demonstrated such a natural flow in his taijutsu that I aspire to his skill, inspiring me to train even harder! Thanks for the vid, and keep 'em coming.
Thank you. I'm the guy on the right, and we had already been training for about 8hrs, so we were REALLY tired. As for Dale, well he's awesome, and a great sensei too.
Ohhh ok, because I was wondering why it looked so much different than ours
HEROINBONER1 2 months ago
Is this your dojo?
HEROINBONER1 2 months ago
@HEROINBONER1
This was a seminar held in a local sports center, our new dojo isn't in any of the videos yet im afraid.
brycemaster 2 months ago
what does to-shin-do translate to in english?
kikbawl 1 year ago
@kikbawl
To-Shin Do = Way of the heart and sword
Uses the same kanji as ninjutsu.
brycemaster 1 year ago
That looked like a sword demo, not a test...
MrCoop91 1 year ago
@MrCoop91
Thanks very much. We've improved a lot since, and we were tired after 8 hours or so training :D
brycemaster 1 year ago
Cool
BujinkanMartialArts 2 years ago
hay guys whats a good martail art to take to streghten self defence if i am already taking to shin do ?????
germanberserk 2 years ago
To-shin Do is all you'll need self-defence wise. To strengthen up maybe take muay thai, for speed jeet kune do and for self-defence, To-shin Do.
brycemaster 2 years ago
thx you
germanberserk 2 years ago
OCFM is the best for self defense
shadowman45810 2 years ago
After looking at some videos I have to say, OCFM is not a martial art, but rather a set of principles that can be used by existing martial artists, also all the techniques I have seen practised already exist in to-shin do.
brycemaster 2 years ago
I've studied To Shin Do years ago at the Hombu dojo I believe Jerry Shadoan was teaching classes while I was there. I was also a member of the Bujinkan dojo.Your right about OCFM being principle based but Russell's teaching go way beyond what you'll learn in either of those systems.I'm talking from experiece.The problem with both To Shin Do and Bujinkan is all attacks are toned down and they do not practice with real intent. I've been doing martial arts for 28 years and OCFM is the way to go.
shadowman45810 2 years ago
Except in the UK we do train full speed and full intention, we train totally differently to anything I've seen in the US.
brycemaster 2 years ago
I've trained in the Hombu dojo I live about an hour away here in Ohio and even there I did not see realistic training. Thats all I'm saying.
shadowman45810 2 years ago
And I don't train like they do in the hombu. Take the strawman arguments elsewhere and stop playing "My art is better than your art" look at how many comments Ive already had saying that. It is getting incredibly tedious. Also, I don't believe for a second that you actually trained with someone in the Hombu and it was unrealistic, Mr Hayes, Norris and Polinquin to name a few have always done it realistically and they kick my ass all day and dont get tired no matter how hard I try to attack them.
brycemaster 2 years ago
@brycemaster
"After looking at some videos I have to say, OCFM is not a martial art, but rather a set of principles that can be used by existing martial artists"
wow.... you just said something of uncanny accuracy, just substiture OCFM for ninjutsu.
did you have an opinion on hatsumi claiming edo period densho that takamatsu told us he never recieved??
Arteanor 1 year ago
Everbody was kung fu fighting,
Those kids were fast as lightening,
It was just a little bit frightening,
but they fought with expert timing!
b19dog 2 years ago 2
where is this school located if you don't mind me asking
DarkKokoro84 2 years ago 2
It's in Birkenhead, Wirral, in the U.K. There are lots of to-shin do dojo in the world so I'm sure you'll find one near you, there's a list on the official site.
brycemaster 2 years ago
that kasumi is a joke...thats not kasumi at all...not even remotely. oh my god this shits so watered down. the way their using their kasumi completely makes the purpose of kasumi nullified
chucknorrispranks 3 years ago
Nice username troll.
brycemaster 3 years ago
quite an insult.
chucknorrispranks 3 years ago
Purpose of Kasumi was:
1) blind the opponent by reflecting sunlight
2) encourage a premature attack at the midsection
3) to avoid "2)" and kill the opponent quickly, and this sidestep/stab is one way that this could have been done. Of course there is a limitless amount of cuts that can be done from kasumi. Also, if it's "NOT EVEN REMOTELY" kasumi then why do all the books by both Mr Hayes and Hatsumi label it as "Kasumi no Kamae" or the "haze stance". Also your strawman argument is pathetic.
brycemaster 2 years ago
i've perused a page of these comments and found no biggotry (sp?), maceioninjutsu, but despite this you do seem rather clued up. So let me ask- what's the deal with shinobi-kai; are you familiar? for better / for worse?
MishimaYukio17 3 years ago
I've heard lots of things about the shinobi kai, some good and some bad, it could be they have bad press, or it could be that they aren't too good... :( It's hard to know without training with them yourself.
brycemaster 3 years ago
the founders of shinobi kai claim to have studied and graded under both hatsumi sensei and tanemura sensei ( to dan level), before forming the shinobi kai. As with any art, I would suggest you spend sometime training with them so you can form your own opinion. they obviously use techniques from bujinkan/genbukan so unless you give them a try it's hard to say if they are 'for better/for worse' check out some of their videos on here and decide for yourself! : )
kotohinemura 3 years ago
I recommend bujinkan instead of hayes (toshindo) water downed ninjutsu, I suggest you train with hatsumi sensei, instead of this greedy white guy lacking real skill; mr hayes him self. overall good technique brother, Arigato
maceioninjutsu 3 years ago
Don't worry maceioninjutsu I'm perfectly capable of discerning whether someone has real skill or not, and having trained with Mr Hayes at the UK seminar, I have no doubt that he is "lacking real skill" I would never speak against soke so please show the same degree of respect and dont make these ungrounded claims against anshu, it's bad manners.
To-shin Do wa muteki da.
brycemaster 3 years ago
if you speak against hatsumi thats your opinion. I know people from years back that trained with hayes, and hayes iss not what hes cracked up to be. Stephan k. hayes was giving out rank and he wasnt at that level he left before he could really learn (captialize)= making money, from the ninja boom in the 80s, and hayes was teaching people when he was a green belt acting like he was a black belt (shadows of iga)etc. my question is why learn an art form a low class black belt when you can from
maceioninjutsu 3 years ago
READ MY POST. I said I would NEVER speak against Soke Hatsumi, and get your facts straight: Anshu has NEVER called himself a grandmaster of anything INCLUDING To-shin Do and Bujinkan/Ninjutsu/whatever, and I'm sure that (even though his certificate was taken down etc. etc.) Hatsumi doesnt just hand out 10th DEGREE BLACK BELTS TO ANY OLD LOW CLASS GUY. Please get your facts straight, read posts through more to avoid embarrassing youself and take this kind of hateful jealous talk somewhere else.
brycemaster 3 years ago
Thats how I know you dont have any ideal what your saying. in hombu dojo hatsumi sensei doesn't care about rank its the foreigners that care. Hatsumi sensei will give anyone a black belt if they want it he doesnt care. alot them 14th and 15th dan I ask them how much did they pay for their rank lol. If you knew what go on you wouldn't have stated what you had. Im not hating on hayes just speaking the truth... by the way if you knew the truth instead of half truths you would stop embarrassing self
maceioninjutsu 3 years ago
Im obviously wasting my time, and you can reply with whatever you like, but you have obviously never trained with Mr Hayes. If belt rank is not important, than why does hatsumi have it in the bujinkan? BTW what belt rank are you? NVM you could just ask for whatever one you wanted right? Thats the type of response I'm used to getting from you crass, chirlish ill-educated keyboard warriors. I'm not going to respond to you again as I'm teaching a pig to sing here, I waste my time and annoy the pig.
brycemaster 3 years ago
Also, as a final little embarassment, the video you posted not only relies of facts DIRECTLY QUOTED FROM WIKIPEDIA AND BULLSHIDO (non-factual/editable sites) but he also says the age old problems with Hatsumi at the end, about how Hatsumi wont hand over his scrolls to be verified by historians etc. so what it comes down to is: Which "fake" do I train with? The one who holds on to (not necissarily bad) traditions, OR the one who modernised the art to be a better self-defence art?...
brycemaster 3 years ago
I don't care if To-shin Do (or bujinkan for that matter) is PURE/TRUE/AUTHENTIC! All i care about is learning an art that works, and To-shin Do definately does work, and from what I've seen in videos of the bujinkan, it's more suited to the modern world, as (opposed to popular belief) not everyone attacks with a classical lunge punch anymore.
brycemaster 3 years ago
my my my a bit of agragent and somewhat of a small biggit. 5th dan for your question. I wasnt talking about the part with hatsumi I was talking about the part with mrs hayes. talking to you is like trying to teach a blind man to see, you are a true 85%er
maceioninjutsu 3 years ago
Ive had to block you,as you are no longer voicing opinion you are insulting others,posting seriously slanderous and harmful comments and youve ventured way off topic from the video and into the HAYES IS BAD AND HATSUMI IS REALLY GOOD BECUASE I TRAIN WITH HIM!Its your opinion and you are entitled to it,but you are an idiot and I feel really sorry for you.Not for training in the BJK,because many members are skilled,just because you cant listen to why I train! As in the ninja way:"whatever works".
brycemaster 3 years ago
lol!! another big fan of mr hayes eh? you may do well to spend less time and energy slating mr hayes and what he has done with his bujinkan training. as for mr hayes teaching 'watered down' ninjutsu, i'd like to point out alot of to-shin do practitioners come from a bujinkan background and decided to go for to-shin do because of its relevance to modern day situations. some of our shihan/master instructors reached senior ranks in bujinkan (godan and above) before studying to-shin do. thankyou
kotohinemura 3 years ago
haha nice =) i train with Dale every sunday. still a white belt tho :P
tobo2506 3 years ago
Ye I know, you go to St. Anselms lol.
brycemaster 3 years ago
the grandmaster him self? what can you say about soke? besides he's mr.hayes sensei. "you know what" im going a stephan hayes Im going to train for about 1 year and a half or two and call myself a grandmaster
maceioninjutsu 3 years ago
OMG thats some bad technique. Toshindo...lol what a joke!
truthnbudo 3 years ago
Congrats, everyone think you're so intelligent with the way you pass on your sage-like wisdom of the martial arts. /sarcasm
More time in the Dojo, less behind the keyboard kthxbai.
brycemaster 3 years ago
Then you are in a much better condition than me. I am not sure I can even lift up the thing after an hour... :)
jsquared73 3 years ago 4
@jsquared73 Same here, it really is hard on the forearms and thighs
HEROINBONER1 2 months ago
I'd suggest you keep the sword tip higher after the daijodan cut. Makes it easier to recover and cut your opponent again if you miss... :)
jsquared73 3 years ago 4
Thanks for the suggestion, but I had already been training for over 7 hours so my cuts were going much lower due to how tired I was.
brycemaster 3 years ago
That J Norris guy cannot be trusted. If he ever wants to test any techniques out involving car doors and thumbs, don't fall for it!
negativeionz0 3 years ago 2
Ha! I'd love to see that.
brycemaster 3 years ago
Any To-Shin Do schools in Florida? Specifically, South Florida?
theunknownknows 3 years ago 3
Yeah there is one in Tampa. Go to the To-Shin Do main site "SKHQUEST" to see the address for it.
brycemaster 3 years ago
cool vid lad
arxeverton 3 years ago 2
Thanks.
brycemaster 3 years ago
<3333 i love training
i wish i could attend more though meh
WELL DONE KEIRAN AND IAN!!!!!!!
this is heather by the way
igottaspork 3 years ago
TY for the support.
brycemaster 3 years ago
Alright To-Shin Do UK! That was great form on the part of the students testing, and Mr. Hesketh demonstrated such a natural flow in his taijutsu that I aspire to his skill, inspiring me to train even harder! Thanks for the vid, and keep 'em coming.
scotttealey 3 years ago 2
Thank you. I'm the guy on the right, and we had already been training for about 8hrs, so we were REALLY tired. As for Dale, well he's awesome, and a great sensei too.
brycemaster 3 years ago