BIBLE WARNS OF ISLAM AND THE CURSE THAT WILL BE UPON MUSLIMS FOR PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. - Gal 1:8
Ahamed deedat was struck by God Almighty in 1996 and was unable to speak a word until he died a painful death in 2005.This is a warning to those that attack the Holy Bible and the christian faith!!!
Matthew 16:21 - From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law, and that he must be KILLED and on the third day be RAISED to life.
@SilverRossier Jesus plainly told you that he came to die for the sins of many by crucifixion and yet you do not accept that. How can you accept a greater truth that he is God in the flesh?
We Muslims believe Jesus AS is still alive. Risen to Heaven, rescued by God from the Romans and the Jews who persecuted him. The one on the stake is the traitorous Judas instead.
This is strictly my opinion but I much prefer knowing Jesus is still alive than knowing he is dead, crucified, condemned and poked with spears in the ribs.
@SilverRossier I am quite familiar with what Muslims believe. It is, however, devoid of a knowledge of the scriptures. The law requires sacrifice for sin (Leviticus 16:15-16, 17:11, Hebrews 9:22). The prophets foretold the role of the coming Messiah to BE that sacrifice for sin (Isiah 53, Psalm 22) and the Messiah himself repeatedly told you that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34), HOW he came to die (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and exactly WHY he must die (Matthew 26:28).
Thus, when Islam says that the Messiah did not die, it is calling the Messiah a liar, the prophets a liar and making a mokery of the law.
Now... and I REALLY ask that you prayerfully consider the facts here... when Jesus first told his disciples that he was going to go into Jerusalem to die, Peter (his closest disciple) told him that he would not allow it to happen. He held the view of the Muslim.
But what did Jesus think of this view? Let's look at the ACTUAL conversation!
21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. 22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” 23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; (cont.)
you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” (matthew 16:21-23)
Jesus called Peter SATAN for suggesting that he would not allow him to die on the cross. PLEASE for the sake of your eternal sole, consider the fact that Jesus' own view of the cross was 100% opposite of what Islam teaches.
Islam is in direct disagreement with the law of God, the Prophets of God, and the Messiah himself. PLEASE consider this.
@SilverRossier Well my friend, I certainly appreciate the maturity of that response. To often lack of knowledge never hinders the responses. :-) I would only ask you to consider the idea that if God laid out the system of sacrifice practiced for thousands of years, that his prophets foretold the role of the Messiah to be such sacrifice and that the Messiah himself so extensively spoke on the subject that perhaps it would be a subject worth becoming conversant in. (Cont.)
Since, if I am wrong and you are right, I will spend a bit of time paying / atoning for never having come to faith in Allah but for having sought out God as best I understood. However, If I am right and you are wrong, then eternity will be spent separated from God. That's a rather serious situation.
Blessings, and thank you for the sincere and mature response.
Ohoh, I too appreciate your maturity~ Since we both respect each others view, it is then best that we return to our lives and research about each other's religions, without intending to attack each other with bias.
I hope to continue this discussion. I hope to read the al-Maryam, in the Quran to give you evidence from Quran that Jesus is still alive. :D With that, I bid you good health~
Humanity that lived on since the time of Adam until now.. No one can ever measure the vastness of the sins accumulated by humanity. To me, those sins cannot be dispersed by the sacrifice of a man, what more to say the Son of God, or as the Muslim prefer it, prophet of God.
No prophet was sent after the Messiah, as the Messiah who was foretold to come,came as Jesus and only Jesus is to return
Muhammad claimed that Jesus didn't die on the cross but another who looked like him, died instead sura 4:157 and that statement is proof Islam does not confirm the scriptures but contradicts them
Furthermore,Islamic praise of Jesus is fake for Islam is war against Christianity sura 9:29 and proof is all the Middle East were Christian nations forced to convert to Islam
@SilverRossier Muslims never followed the old Christian ways and you do not even know what those ways were. The only one who attempted to infiltrate Christianity was Muhammad who was never be a prophet of God. You see, God chose Isaac over Ishmael to carry as everlasting the covenant thus prophetic line and that means your Muhammad who prescribed war to you was never a prophet of God but used God to invent a religion of all that causes hell on earth.
@SilverRossier Most Muslims like most People are good people, it is not Muslim's fault they were deceived by Muhammad who was deceived by Satan.
I have read the Bible and I have read the Quran but unlike you, I am honest.
Indeed Muslims seek to dominate the world but Islam is not Christianity's successor instead Islam is a continuation of Satan for only Satan uses God to oppress,to deceive and to use violence to win his slaves and Satan has 1.4 billion Muslims who defend him with their souls.
@alarmedbutcalm and what do you think will come after that ? will god reward you for that ? or you will be more rich ? or did this gave you happiness in your life ?
@alarmedbutcalm i bet jesus the same with Mary Magdalene..during those day people dont care much about age in term of sex and marriage... i bet Mary Magdalene also minor... u cant beat the history... bible is history but u believe it but why cant u believe history of civilization?
Muhammad who could not read, claimed he confirmed the scriptures, to confirm to agree
Muhammad who could not read, did not know the Bible for Muhammad said Jesus and Mary were the only ones who were sinless yet Muhammad said Jesus didn't die on the cross but another who looked like him died instead sura 4:157 which contradicts the Bible
For Jesus was not a liar and he foretold he would go to the cross and when Peter tried to stop him, Jesus said stand behind me Satan,
Paul is a founder of chrisianity not jesus! The origins of pagon cult brought up by Paul to make the pagons of Roman empire to convert to christianity , Jesus was sent to children of israel to fulfil the law of Moses.But Paul claimed he is the apostle of the gentiles (non jewish) and saw jesus in a vission and he came with teachings oppiset of jesus.
Christians open your eyes and hearts and convert to real religen of Jesus which is islam.
Jesus is the founder of Christianity, Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles. Paul won for Jesus both Greece and Turkey without bloodshed.
Muslims who pretended to Praise Jesus, with their fake peace, has murdered and robbed from Jesus millions of People and Muslims have robbed from Jesus, all the Christian nations of Northern Africa, all of the Middle East including Turkey and Egypt.
Islam is a false man made evil religion using God to oppress its own followers and to war against all non Muslims
@imacheese1 Blessings to YOU and to all Coptic Christians whose faith has not been in vain despite All of Northern Africa, all of Egypt, all of the Middle East even all of Turkey were once Christian nations forced to convert to Islam.
Brave are your People who endured over a thousand years of Islamic persecution.
Jesus will return, to defend Israel against Islam and a day shall come when all the world will know God came as Jesus (Isaiah 35:4-8, Rev 21:3-4)
God is not evil and Muhammad added Satan before God when he accused God of rewarding murderers with the spoils of war and then chopping off the hands of thieves.
Muhammad died a pagan and Muslims bow down to a pagan moon god in which the crescent moon is Islam's symbol
Islam is the anti Christ, when Jesus appears it will not be to bow down to Satan's religion, Islam but to destroy it, and that is a promise by God
@Sager145 You are completely wrong. Paul was a gentile. So he wrote for the gentiles in their own language. He was called Saul before, and would persecute Christians day and night, till Christ came and said to him "Saul Saul, why do you persecute Me?", upon which Christ changed his name to Paul, and he became arguably the most profound Christian preacher for Christ, and never shed any blood. His shadow would fall on the sick, and they were healed. look up 4.89 if you wish to contrast the Koran.
This all none sense. There is no where in the whole bible where God ordered the sacrifice of an innocent human being as a condition to forgive the sins of mankind. This is all lies made up by the liar Paul and Prophet Jesus has nothing to do with it. Jesus Said the only way to the Kingdom of God is by KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS AND NOT BY SOME WEIRD ALLEGED HUMAN SACRIFICE THAT PAUL THE APOSTATE AND LIAR MADE UP. No where did Jesus say "I will die for the sins of mankind". NO WHERE. ALL LIES
3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death,
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
(The LORD makes his life a WHAT???)
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors.
"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." -Matthew 26:28
So before you go disparaging a called apostle of God (Paul) who was more highly trained than any of the disciples in the law and prophets, you'd better know what you are talking about as you will be held accountable before God for every word you speak.
@IslamLearning "For greater love hath no man, than he lay down his life for his friends".
The law of the OT was harsh, and hard to keep - it was however, still good, but mankind was not good enough to keep it. So Christ came, and He completed the law FOR us, part of which was a sacrifice for sins (The repentant would place their hand on the animals head, confess their sins, the sins would now be on the animal's head, and the animal slaughtered, hence destroying the sin). Since Christ is limitles
@IslamLearning He was able to take ALL our sins, and die for us. But in order to be absolved, we must accept him. If you choose to respond, please do so without offence, and calling my religion and saviour "made up".
@IslamLearning Muslims always attack Paul in order to justify their heresy. Jesus Himself said that He would be crucified. In Rev 1:18, He apppeared to John in all His glory and the disciple who had been with Him for three years fell as dead when he saw Jesus in His glory. And was muhammed even born when all this happened. If I don't believe the words of the disciples of Jesus, why believe the words of a normad, who was born about 600 years later, claiming an angel told him Jesus did not die?
Ali, with all due respect, what difference does it make if you treat the Bible with the same contempt as the Jews who stoned the prophets. You are guilty of the same sin...willful ignorance.
When you hear the Truth but ignore it, you are dabbling with witchcraft.
If God did not spare a King...
1Sa 15:23 Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, & stubbornness is as iniquity & idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you....
Now i have to say.......Everyone on youtube throws the IGNORANT CLAIM........If someone asks a question. Make it clear and answer it.......
So answer me this, The bible....Has it been altered?
When i say this, i mean words changed to more understandable words. Which hence give a differant interpretation. Can this not cause alot of conflict of interpretation of your scripture?
Do you think if Hitler (who killed millions of innocent Jews) was traveling back to Berlin and he claim to see a mysterious vision and light from Moses who suppose to instruct him to be an apostle of Moses and to write 20 new books and ask the Jews to follow them. YOU THINK THE JEWS WILL BELIEVE IN THIS DIRTY TRICK?????THE ANSWER IS BIG NO.Why do you follow Paul (Hitler of the early Christians). What is wrong with you?? can you think and REALIZE??why are you so brainwashed???
Muslims were taught falsehoods about Jesus and Christianity, they claim they praise Jesus when they do not know his message nor his teachings
Jesus taught Love God with all your being and love your neighbors for he said that was the sum total of all the teachings of all the prophets but Muhammad taught wage war with the infidel as are your neighbors
Muslims's praise of Jesus means nothing as they have robbed from Jesus many Christian nations and forced them to convert to Islam
BonjouNuit120, I have lived side by side with christans, infact my best friend for life is christan. Islam that I believe in does not wag war against non-muslims as you claim. only you now can cause this by your false claims.if you keep feeding your false accusation to people arround you. May ALLAH(GOD) show you the truth if you deserve to be shown the truth. jew,christan and muslims are nothing without faith and not politics.
look into relgion and what God has sent us through out ages, from the time of ibrahim(pbuh)to the time of Muhamed(pbuh) every nation had a messenger, every nation had a message from God to only worship him.then what happenes, people deny them people kill them, and people disbelieve them and you are being one of them at the moment as you post all this false accustations.and only in the Quran that God says that Muhammed(Pbuh) is the last prophet and not in the Bible.
how many priests of christianity have embraced Islam, yusuf estesis one of them, maybe you need to watch some of his videos on youtube. as for the Jinn and demones, we do not worshib them, if you know how a muslim prayes and what he says in his prayers i guess you would never say that! we pray 5 times a day for him not for satan, we start our prayers by asking God to protect us from satan, we know what satan is and what God is there is no comparison my friend, none at all.
Hey pagan shit. Why do you keep posting the same comments over and over again. Don't you have a life or something better to do. GO worship your Sun God Mithra/Horus(birth date Dec.25th/Christmas day),Your Goddess Esther (birth date Easter Day) and the God Pan (Good Friday). Your Gods and Goddesses are going to be mad if you don't drink their blood and eat their flesh. By the way, don't Forget to worship the Roman SUN God Horus on "SUN-DAY". YOU PAGAN IDIOT.
Only Muhammad was a pagan all his life as only his people worshiped 360 idols of the Kaaba, one being a black stone, moon god called Allah
It is not me but 1.4 billion Muslims who bow down towards a craven image, praising Muhammad's hand Muppet, Allah and Muhammad 5 times a day
But unlike other pagans, only Muhammad used God to invent a religion of war against all non Muslims, in Muhammad's quest for power, fortune and female slaves
Only Paul (piss be upon him)the Pagan and all his followers today including you are pagans and Polytheists. Paul the liar started to mixing mithrasim with the Islamic teaching of Profit Jesus to attract your pagan ancestors to his new religion and distort the original teaching of Jesus. Muslims don't worship any black stone or a moon god and we don't rape women like christians do on the streets everyday in the west. WE WORSHIP THE GOD WHO CREATED THE THE HUMAN BEING YOU WORSHIP U PAGAN IDIOT.
God's LAW requires sacrifice for sin (Leviticus 16) God's Prophet's state that the Messiah would die (Psalm 22) and would die for our transgressions (Isaiah 53).
Jesus himself stated MANY times that he would die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34) and HOW he would die (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and WHY he would die (Matthew 26:28).
Jesus HIMSELF stated that his blood woul dbe spilled for the FORGIVENESS OF SIN for many.
Islam contradicts God's Law, his prophets, and The Messiah himself.
Back to you "PAGAN SHIT". I think both you and BonjourNuit120 need to learn how to talk to and respect other people beliefs and religions if you want your own belief and religion to be respected. If you want to insult someone else religion, then be prepared for a the same level of response back until you begin to show some respect to other faiths.
I don't mind civil dialogues, but if you begin to insult my new faith, I will respond back with the same level of insult and more.
"I think both you and BonjourNuit120 need to learn how to talk to and respect other people beliefs and religions "
And I think you need to quit slandering people and being profane. Show me where I have been disrespectful towards you or anyone else here. Show me where I have ever used profanity towards you.
Commandment 9: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
For me to call you faith a false religion and then post the (Cont.)
REASONS for its falsehood is NOT disrespect. It is called argumentation. (definition: an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.)
If you are learning your faith then you should learn to drop the profanity.
And if you REALLY want to learn about God, study how he has revealed himself and what he has stated before. God does not contradict himself and the simple fact of the matter is, God's law requires sacrifice for sin.
1st of all, my early comments were not directed to you at all. your brother in faith BonjourNuit120 is all over youtube insulting Islam, calling us pagans, killers, liars, and Satan followers and I guess that is OK with you (since you are both Christians) when everyone insult Islam but when we defend back our religion, we will be accused of spreading profanity. Again, you are just a typical follower of Paul religion of double standards and hypocrisy. teach ur christian friends to respect others.
first of all, please don't get offended by what i wrote, as there is no need to, and no need to get angry. the quran is only one "version" since the day it was written down by muslims after the prohets death. secondly the quran does not teach hatred against non muslims, this is yet another false accusation from your side. thirdly I don'y have to lie for islam there is no need for me to do so, I'm only replying to your accusations as i feel you are misguided or mislead for however age you are
I think the one who is promoting violance right now is you, by false accusations, any one who reads these comments can be decieved by them but in the Quran God states that if all mankind were to believe or disbelive, it wouldn't affect him a tiny bit ( I can tell you were to read it) but I'll leave it to you if you want to as am not forceful:) have a good day.
When your Quran teaches, God only accepts Islam, exalt Islam above the other religions, wage war with those whom the scriptures have been given, conquer the world for Islam, strike terror into the infidel, strike off their heads until you make a great slaughter from among them, then I am quoting the Quran
but you are denying it for the tactic of you Muslims is to deny even what the Quran says
So read your own Quran, preferably an older version that is more honest
in you tube search for ( islam increase) and watch the first video and tell me who and why would you want to supress peoples believe if it wasn't true and right.
I embrace all humankind for God is with all people but I cannot stop people from joining the only religion Islam that began with a false prophet who was a mass murderer and who used God in quest of power, fortune and female slaves.
But no one would join Islam if they truly read and understood the Quran for they would realize the many contradictions, the hatred, the violence, the threats and bribery Muhammad used to obtain his followers
Read the true books not the ones you;ve been claiming that you read. know your God first before teaching others who God is:) I have nothing to prove to anyone that God even exists, I have nothing in my pockets nor in my mind, I only have faith and believe, I know they are enough. and there is so many people out there muslims and non muslims that are like me too. and am sure that whatever you say to them or post to them is like dust in the wind.
I experience God's Loving Presence for 30 years and few people have never experienced one second of awareness of God's Presence in their whole life time
That is why my Christian religion is so important to me, for it allows all the world to experience and to know God and because I do know God, I know Islam is not from God for God does not hate non Muslims, God does not deceive,God does not kill people through warriors then reward the warriors with little girls as sex slaves as does your Quran
My words are only dust in the wind to those who are dead, who cannot see or hear not to those who seek the Truth as only God is the truth. God created all the world and all humankind and God is with each person on earth and it was and is a God given right to experience God for that is true paradise and a true prophet was to return you to that knowledge that God knows you best and that God himself guides you best for it would end hell on earth
you seek deception, and not truth, so what you will always see is deception, and never truth. God is one God is great, we experience God's presence every day 5 times, God told us that satan has no power on us nor can he harm us and bu us I mean all humans from all races and religions. so no we are not decived by satan, and history is for fools, muslims are not prohits nor are they sinless, so as christans and jews.
No one can fight Satan if they do not know what Satan is
Satan is the lies people were force fed about God that blind them from seeing God is with them and all people on earth. Satan is also hatred and the Quran teaches you to hate non Muslims
Lies and hatred does have power over you for they generate wars and wars are the greatest of evils
and Muslims Have been deceived by Satan because no prophet was sent after the messiah as only he is to return, Muhammad invented a religion of war using God
my last message to you or post here would be a question: do jews believe in jesus(Pbuh)? do they say that Jesus(Pbuh) the true messaiah was crusified? no they don't. up till today they deny that jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago, but hey we muslims believe you and believe that jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago, and yet you describe us as Satan worshipers, and demon worshipers! well ...
It is alright if Jews did not believe Jesus was the messiah because if they all converted to Christianity, then they would not have been able to fulfill a promise God made, which was the promise that the Jews will return to Israel
Don't point your finger at them, when you Muslims hated and killed millions of Jews and Christians while you pretended to praise Jesus as you Muslims robbed from Jesus dozens of Christian nations forcing them to convert to Islam the only religion on earth from Satan
Without knowing it, Muslims were enslaved by Satan
Satan couldn't capture a fly if he was honest,
Do you think Satan is stupid to have captured 1.4 Billion intelligent Muslims?
Satan is the greatest deceiver and he is your god as Muslims are born trusting with only the desire to obey God, it is not their fault Muhammad was deceived and deceived them by creating a religion of war in which deception, hating, exploiting, killing are commanded of you as these evil acts do not serve God but Satan
#1. It was recorded by JEWISH prophets that the Messiah would be rejected by HIS OWN PEOPLE (Isaiah 6:9-10, 49:4, Psalm 118:22, etc.)
#2. The Jews do not deny Jesus walked the earth. His miracles are spoken of in the talmud so that's a rather flawed argument. They simply do not acknowledge him as the Messiah (in fulfillment of prophecy)
#3. The issue with Islam and Christianity is that it makes Jesus a liar. He states repeatedly that he would die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34)
there is no need to for comments like "pagan shit" , check your refrences again as the talmud is not the torrah. and if you believe so much in what you say and i believe so much in what i say then there will be a time when the truth will be revealed. but we'll have to wait and see.. so sit tight.
and the arrgument isn't how Jesus died or why he died, the arrgument is "is Jesus God" and if you believe he was then am not here to make you believe otherwise, its your own believe and i have mine but am not going to judge you for your believe, only God does that not humans, and islam doesn't contradict Gods law as it is from God "thats my believe" so no need to try and prove that it isn't from God, as i Wont work. And God is Allah to me and to many others.
well I;m sorry if you you were referred to as a "Pagant Shit" no one has the right to judge you for your believe. anyways thats not my intention as well. and my grammar is ok so far i guess!:) , as i said before the Quran doesnt teach us hatred towards non muslims, and I can prove it to you through verses from the Quran, and as well the Quran we believe is the word of GOD but the Talmud you mention is from rabinal teaching and commentary, and in the Quran there is a whole chapter about Jesus
and it confirms to all Jesus's miricals and what he did and only is the crucifiction part that the Quran mentions it diffrently, so can you tell me if the Quran wasn't right and islam wasn't right then why does it confirm with all what Jesus did from his birth till his return, and only denies that he was crucified or that he was GOD. why wouldn't it just deny his miricals as well or not mention that he raise the dead, or talked as a baby? why? would it be difficult ? no it woldn't
but because its the truth that a lot of human being don't want to hear and believe because of selfish intentions and agendas that makes us fight one another. see I don't have to try and justify any actions done by muslims or non-muslims but in a perfect world things would be diffrent , but it's not and will never be a perfect world, so you keep believing what you want and i will keep believing what I want and Like God tells us in the end he will inform us of our diffrences.
And by the way you used the word Exactly many times, the prophets you talked about don't know what Exactly would happen as only GOD knows exactly what would happen other wise we would all be following a script or a scenario... just a thought.
Oh my friend, you ask THE question and you don't even KNOW that import of it.
Why indeed! Why would the messenger who spoke to Mohamed tell him all this information but change the information on Jesus' diety and his crucifixion?
I will let scripture speak for itself:
"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel YOU ARE SAVED, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. (Cont.)
Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I RECEIVED I PASS ON to you as of first importance: that Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES,"
And this, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
The message was changed because it is that very part that leads to your salvation! Satan does not(Cont.)
care how many good works you try to do. You will never be able to follow God's law to perfection which is his required standard. You will sin as we all do and God's law REQUIRES sacrifice for sin. Without Jesus' death, you have NO SALVATION. Thus, the message was changed because it is the very part of salvation.
Mohemed may have been well intentioned, but he was mislead by satan as scripture warned:
"14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."
No, you are wrong. Your statement was made by Paul(the founder of Christianity) who taught repenting can only be done through blood and human sacrifices and it has nothing to do with the teaching of Profit Jesus. Prophet Jesus taught
us to keep the COMMANDMENTS AND THAT GOD IS ONE(NOT 3 GODS IN 1 GOD).Read Mark 12:29. Again, the only way to salvation is not THROUGH THE TORTURE AND KILLING OF INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS but by repenting to God Almighty directly. Read Ezekiel 18:20-25 GODS LAW NOT PAUL
Read ISAIAH 53 (which I have been qouting to you for days now).
This is what the prophets said of the Messiah:
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
He was PIERCED for what? OUR INIQUITIES. (Please look that up.)
The PUNISHMENT that BROUGHT US PEACE was.... UPON HIM!
By HIS WOUNDS we ARE HEALED.
Now please... I pray that you will actually (Cont.)
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering...
It was the LORD's will to do what? To Crush him and cause him to suffer. Why? What did the LORD make of his life?
A GUILT OFFERING.
So, what you do not realize my friend when you break the 9th commandment and bear false witness against Paul, is that Paul taught straight from the prophets of the old testament in accord with the law (Cont.)
If you knew ANYTHING of God's word, you'd know that. Instead, you accuse others of being brainwashed and you repeat the false arguments of Muslim men men who know not the what the Jewish prophets have said or what God's law has stated.
And for that reason you do not know that Islam contradicts the Law of God, his prophets, and His Messiah.
You quote Ezekiel 18 because THEY have quoted Ezekiel 18. God's law is UNCHANGING. No prophet EVER contradicts God's law. And if (cont.)
you knew God's word, you'd know that Ezekiel continues discussing sacrifice ALL THROUGHOUT his book. You'd know that EZEKIEL gives the measurements and the designs for THE ALTAR OF SACRIFICE (Ez. 43:13-25).
If you yourself actually knew God's word instead of drinking in the kool-aid that these false teachers have poured into you, then you would KNOW such things. You would KNOW that Paul taught EXACTLY what the prophets and the law commanded.
The following statement "14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." is directed toward Paul the enemy of Jesus who claimed to see a mysterious light and a vision of someone called "Jesus" which was Satan in reality since the teaching of Paul contradict it self so MANY TIMES and it contradict the beautiful Teaching of prophet Jesus. Paul hijacked the good teaching of Jesus to make a name from himself and misguide many after him. Exactly what is happening NOW.
Islamlearning, whatever Bonjoujour nuit says here isn't new to us, like jorsak says and speaks of salavation and sins and that prophet Muhammed pbuh was a student for satan!! or whatever he said now!:) we believe what we believe and they believe what they believe... let them be Bonjounuit can go on insulting us and islam as much as he wants as he is only insulting himself, and his faith. God has a reason for them bieng blinded by their ego
and yet every day people see the truth and they embrace Islam more and more and you know why they do? its because God is merciful to humans he helps and leads them to the truth. not because we defend Islam.. I asked one question for joresk and all I got from him was strange answers, accusing our Prophet of being mislead by satan! and not for 1 sec did he show any signs of argument in what he believes in. so this is the new accusation " we are satan worshipers"!!!!
why do you argue with them in what you know is a setup, its not arrguments any more my friend, the time for that is gone, anyways.. hope these comments wouldn't offened anyone as its not intended to, and hope it finds you well
I don't know why you choose to say good works as if Islam and the Quran only mentions Good deeds... when you read the Quran I asure you that the word "Faith" comes before "Good deeds" in every verse that is mentioned in the quran if you do good deeds in your life its not enough it has to be good deeds whilest you have faith and so "Faith" comes first my friend and then "salvation" tell me something why dosomeone need salvation if he doesn't have faith, and how can faith be for none but God !
This last comment was for Jorsak and not you IslamLearning, sorry I didnt make it clear, ! I agree with you Jorsak that salvation is an important aspect in your believe but believe me am a muslim and salvation isa great aspect in my believe but not in the same sense that it is for you.
My friend, you asked an honest question and I gave an honest and sincere response.
I believe that the law of God clearly demonstrates that sacrifice is required for sin. I believe that it is completely sound and logical to conclude that God's law is unchanging. If God's law is changing, then God is changing and I know that is false.
I believe that it is clear that the prophets taught that the Messiah would suffer and die for the transgressions of humanity. I have provided (cont.)
I provided numerous quotes from Jesus himself demonstrating abundantly that he intended to die, how he was to die, and WHY he was to die.
Apart from Jesus' death on the cross there is no salvation for man. None.
You MUST, according to God's law, offer sacrifice for sin. I have made my offering and by that offering I am perfect and without sin and thus will have salvation.
That is ALL in accord with God's law. you asked me why the only (Cont.)
thing not mentioned about Jesus in the Qur'an is that he is God and the Crucifixion. And I honestly answered that the only thing cares about you NOT knowing is how to be saved.
I said good works as an example, all your good works and belief (Faith) will do you no good what so ever if you do not believe in what is required for salvation.
Muslims quote "Bring your proof if you are truthful" [Al-Baqarah (2):111] and I have done just that. None of what I have offered has been refuted (cont.)
and I shared it with honesty in answering your question.
When I said that I believe Satan spoke to Mohamed, I understand that that can be offensive though I did not say it as an offense but to sincerely offer what I believe happened.
If we are forwarned that Satan comes masquaring as an angel of light and if we are warned about these angels changing the gospel message, should it be offensive to offer that as an explination for the message being changed by the messenger of the Qur'an?
All of what I said has been to include God's law, his prophets, His Messiah, etc. I have demonstrated that the entire message is consistent and that Islam is in contradiction to it.
I hope that as an obviously gentile natured and intelligent person, you can see I meant not to offend for the sake of offense but to sincerely provide you with an honest answer to your question.
Joe, your words show faith, also shows that you have believe, we share that at least but our definitions are diffrent and thats what we are discussing
right? so you mentioned that satan has influnced men someway or another to follow him and your explanatin for the holy Quran is that its from satan. I will disagree with you in that because stan wouldn't ask 1.6 billion human being to pray 5 times a day to God, or forgive or to be fair, not commit adultry, not to cheat, not to lie, not to support one another, or not to take intrest,not to respect your parents, not to believe in prophets,not to look after you nighbours,
My friend, let me pose this honest question to you but let me first saythis: I do not consider you an evil person nor do I harbor any ill-feelings towards you in the slightest. For me to say that Satan is behind the deception that is Islam, i KNOW sounds offensive but as I have said, previously, I am not trying to be offensive for the sake of offense but for enlightenment and I hope that you can sincerely see the difference.
Now, let me pose the questions and I hope you will see the (cont.)
Satan is refered to as the great deceiver in Christinaity not as the great boldfaced liar. a bold lie is easily detected but deceit is best wrapped in partial truths.
If Jesus was correct when he stated, "I am THE way and THE truth and THE life. NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH ME." then wouldn't it be JUST LIKE Satan to give you all the feelings of righteousness and safety and eternal security but deny you salvation?
Woudl it not make COMPLETE sense that Satan would make you FEEL SAFE and secure in your relationship with God but to retract the VERY THING that ACTUALLY gave you salvation?
When satan told Eve to eat the apple in the garden, he did not lie outright. His lie was in the deception wrapped in partial truth. THAT is how he operates.
Satan does not care if you bow 5 times a day and pray, give to the poor, etc, if your eternal home is hell. As long as you believe that the cross is a lie,(Cont)
Well Joe, I can say exactly the same to you , that satan has you exactly where he want you to be..:) thats not my arrgument though... every prophet that ws send to us had a message, and it was to worship the only God, the one God, so the only decieved humans that satan is decieving right now are the ones that worship no God(sorry to use these words) but islam believe in the ones of GOD so as christianity but with a diffrent concept( diffrent) not right or wrong, but diffrent(cont)
You COULD say that and that would be a logical rebuttal.
However, I want you to consider... My next question which to me would be th elogical question to ask... WHICH came first?
It certainly would be possible and feesible to argue that as a Christian I have been deceived into following a false path should Islam have come prior and Christinaity was the new thing which is different.
But, my friend, Christianity predates Islam by some 600+ years. And it is following (cont.)
the law which requires sacrifice for sin and the prophets who said the Messiah would die for the sins of mankind. So, I feel that the logical question MUST be asked.
I THANK YOU SO MUCH for the civility and as you said honesty of your responses and I know I would enjoy having you as a friend in day to day life.
I have said many times that we have more in common than not. We both hunger for a world of righteousness focused on God.
thank you again Joe for your kind words, I hope that niether one of us would have hell as his eternal home... blessings to you as well and to all who is close to you...
and yes maybe .:) maybe we will be friendsone day..who knows...till then keep your heart open....
Hey, in your religion, I am not bound for hell. I think, if I understand correctly, I will be their briefly and then on to paradise. Correct? I'm not 100% on that but I seem to remember that.
HOWEVER, in my faith. Without Jesus as the sacrifice for sin, then it's hell.
My friend, your logic now isn't straight forward.:) do you think that God who created every living thing, created the universe and all what it have, would work on time, ! he created time for us created past present and future for us, do you think he has a past, present or even a future! and I never said that you were decieved into following a false path.. you are following Jesus(Pbuh). but your defenition and interpretation to the bible is diffrent from mine "in Logic" cont
God says in the quran, bible and even the hindu vadas say it, god will forgive ALL sins EXCEPT for Shirk (ascribing partners to him) and in your faith Jesus is ascribed as a partner to god.
So no my friend, if you dont like islam atleast you might be safe with judaism because these are the only 2 truly monothiestic religions out there. with islam you get Jesus as a messenger however so that is to your benifit.
Ali, forgiveness and consequence are different things. If you rob me, I can forgive you but when caught, you still have the consequences of that action.
God is VERY clear in his law that sin requires sacrifice to atone for sin. He says it PLAINLY.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Now, you don't have to like that or agree but (Cont.)
agree but you also should not misrepresent my beliefs.
In conclusions, God's law is plainly clear that sacrifice for sin is REQUIRED. God's prophets clearly spoke of the Messiahs death and his life being made a guilt offering for the sins of man and Jesus himself repeatedly spoke of it.
God says Clearly in Ezekiel 18:18-22 that if a person changes his ways and repents he will have eternal life.
But even still as a muslim i still perfrom the sacrifice, in less than a month i will be perfoming this duty once more god willing, you say god is unchanging yet you believe god is loving as per the NT, but in the OT god is not seen as loving is he?
as for your faith, let me ask you do you believe that Jesus is the Father? and taht the Father is Jesus? No you dont, you believe they are part of a god head, therefore it is not monothiestic, because you are saying god the father needs help from his son jesus who are both god.
i said partners of god, and you said it yourself, they are THREE PERSONS, which is exactly what i am saying. as for yoru example of marriage, i am not my wife she is not me either.
so it is clear that if that is your example you definatly admit what i just said.
Islam does not contradict the sacrifice, as i said we are going to be doing that in a few weeks, and we do not ascribe a creation to being god as you do with jesus.
so no we are not trying to mis understand your faith, it is exactly whe you said. if not tell me taht you believe the father is jesus.
It amazes me that Muslims quote Ezekiel as some sort of proof that God has now mysteriously done away with his whole sacrificial system issued in his law.
Ali, have you ever read Ezekiel?
Ezekiel NEVER gets rid of God's law. Ezekiel NEVER does away with sacrifice.
And this is PLAINLY evident if you actually READ his book because he continues to talk about sacrifice THROUGHOUT; even down to the description for the altar OF SACRIFICE in chapter 43:13-16.
43:22 "On the second day you are to offer a male goat without defect FOR A SIN OFFERING, and the altar is to be purified as it was purified with the bull."
Now, how is it Ali, that Ezekiel who has gotten rid of sacrifice for sin in your mind has now stated in chapter 43 that they are to offer a WHAT? A SIN OFFERING.
You know how that is? Because the prophet of God never contradicts THE LAW OF GOD. Ezekiel DOES NOT do away with sacrifice - EVER.
Oh... and when have I EVER said that the Old testament God is not loving? Jesus talks about Hell more than any other character in all of scripture.
The idea that the Old Testament God is mean and angry but the New Testament God is all lovey dovey is a bunch of hooey.
God is unchanging. Salvation is unchanging.
Sacrifice is REQUIRED for the remission of sin. THAT is God's law and it is unchanging. God is not any less or any more loving. God is, was, and always shall be.
The Law of God... I don't think that we as humans should talk about the law of God... we can talk about the law of mankind... which God has set outlines for us to follow.. but his law...It is outside our limits to even comprehend it.
That the law requires sacrifice is plainly evident which is why Ali attempts to argue that Ezekiel does away with God's law.
Ali realizes that if God's law states that it is required that unless God has issued a change (Which he does not) then that law must stand. Thus, he tries to find the change of plans in God's word because Islam teaches no need for atonement.
As I have demonstrated rather thoroughly, Ezekiel did not reverse the law of God.
Joe, no one is disputing the sacrifice is still required, however the wage of sin is not death if someone repents for it. and the sacrifice is not for the blood or meat but for the piety of the person to take the best they have and give it for the sake of god. and as such. But a sacrifice is not the only thing that wipes away the sin, it is the person's abstainance from the sin that causes them to be forgiven, as a muslim this is what we are taught
it is not how much salaat we do but rather it is how pious we were in performance of it. so again the verse in ezekiel makes it clear that you dont need the sacrifice, because now lets tlak realisticly we are not all rich, so basically what you are saying is a poor person has no hope of salvation, because he cannot afford an animal that would be an unjust god, if peopel can afford it then it is manditory on them, if the cant then simply repenting and refraining will do. to me that is just!
And NO Ali, teh verse in Ezekiel DOES NOT negate the requirement of the law. As I have already demonstrated, Ezekiel himself gives the designs for building the ALTAR OF SACRIFICE and he himself calls for the sacrifice for sin.
So you argument has absolutely no merit. You cannot say that the prophet in one breath gets rid of the requirement and have him in the very next telling you how to build the altar to do it on and calling for sacrifice for sin.
"For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life." - Leviticus 17:11
"And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." - Hebrews 9:22
God's law is unchanging Ali. Without shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sin.
and OF COURSE a genuine repentance REQUIRES a "TURNING AWAY FROM" sin.
If there is no turning away from, then there is no genuine repentance. But what you are saying and what Islam is saying is that there is no need to sacrifice if you repent and THAT is where the major problem is.
You cannot have one without the other. Genuine repentance requires turning away AND Sacrifice. The absence of either negates the whole.
I really don't know why you 2 now keep digging holes for one another rather than accept the fact that both of you have belife and faith...and belive in the Ones of God...
Joe muslims are not satan worshipers, and just because you don't agree with what they believe in that means that thier belief is wrong.
By the way... I'm glad I made you laugh earlier. That WAS the intent. :-) Course I wish you would change as I believe Islam leads to eternal separation from God but that wasn't the point of my jest and I'm glad you caught that. :-)
I certainly don't believe that Muslims are Satan worshipers. As I have said on MANY occasions and will continue to do so, In practice we have FAR MORE in COMMON than naught.
When I assert that Satan deceived Mohamed it was not to say that he consequently (Cont.)
became a Satan worshiper. Perhaps there are Christians who say such a thing but I do not believe that nor would I assert it.
I believe simply that Satan gave Mohamed all the feel of righteousness without the very means, the ONE thing, by which mankind can truly attain it - namely the cross.
But Joe you cannot say that Satan decieved Muhammed(Pbuh) and expect that I will agree with you ...or will consider anything you say !..:) cause I wont...
Thus the painstaking effort to demonstrate that God's law, his prophets, and the Messiah all disagree with what Islam teaches - specifically that sacrifice is required for the remission of sin.
I have shown that his law requires it, his prophets speak of it and that the messiah became it.
If Islam contradicts all that, then is it not a support for the argument that Mohamed was deceived by Satan?
answer a simple question, if a person who is poor commits a sin, what is he to do for the god you ascribe to pre jesus? is that poor person to go and steal the animal of the neighbor to sacrifice it to god for repentance?
see i believe in a just god, and justice says that if a person can afford it then he does that, if not then simply the bare minimum would be repentance alone. but tell me where is the justice for the poor person to get forgiven pre jesus.
Ali, the law has all sorts of means by which the poor can bring a lesser sacrifice - doves, even wheat grain.
But let us be clear that sacrifice was required.
Furthermore, as I have stated to you on MANY occasions, please study Yom Kippur - the Holiest holy day for the Jews which is "The Day of Atonement."
It is the day when the HIGH PRIEST offers sacrifice for the sins of the people - a goat. That goat's blood was sprinkled on the altar in the holy of holies and in the meeting place (Cont.)
and this is specifically detailed in Leviticus 16:15-16.
Jesus performed this role but he did so PERFECTLY because he did not offer the blood of lambs but his very own.
This is plainly stated in Hebrews 9
11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, (cont.)
Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, & not sacrifice; & the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
N.T:
Luk e18:13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
*14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God.
*1Sa 15:22 To obey is better than sacrifice, & to heed is better than the fat of rams.
@naliakbar If the person was poor, they were allowed to bring "two small pigeons", instead of the regular larger animal (a calf from memory but Im unsure of which animal exactly). This is exactly what Jesus' family did when presenting him at 8 days old, embodying the poverty and humility of Jesus Christ.
That is what a family did if they were poor, and in the presence of true repentance, God would never leave a family without the means for repentance.
Joe, I think from my understanding to christianity that you don't believe in 3 persons but oneGOD, but no matter how you try and explain it you yourself become unsure of how to explain it. and thats the point that God has explained in CLEAR words in the Quran to christians and muslims about Jesus(pbuh). but anyways switching is not something i intend to do as I am following all Gods messengers and prophets, and faith... that ends in our time by Prophet Muhammed(pbuh). you make melaugh man:)
PS. Muslims such as Ali CONTINUALLY try to tell me that I believe in 3 Gods. It is disrespectful and to be perfectly honest is breaking command #9 by bearing false witness against me and all other Christians by asserting a falsehood.
It gets very old and I grow weary of refuting that same comment falsely asserted repeatedly.
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BIBLE WARNS OF ISLAM AND THE CURSE THAT WILL BE UPON MUSLIMS FOR PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. - Gal 1:8
Ahamed deedat was struck by God Almighty in 1996 and was unable to speak a word until he died a painful death in 2005.This is a warning to those that attack the Holy Bible and the christian faith!!!
islamfalse 6 months ago
BIBLE WARNS OF ISLAM AND THE CURSE THAT WILL BE UPON PEOPLE LIKE DEEDAT FOR PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. - Gal 1:8
islamfalse 6 months ago
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PROOF FROM JESUS OWN WORDS THAT HE WAS CRUCIFIED
Matthew 16:21 - From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law, and that he must be KILLED and on the third day be RAISED to life.
islamfalse 6 months ago
WHY MUSLIMS DONT BELIEVE JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness..."(1 Cor 1:18)
islamfalse 6 months ago
Ahmed Deedat may have passed on. But his knowledge will live in our hearts forever insyaallah
coolhazim0 1 year ago 2
Explicit statement over implicit ones; unless Jesus CLEARLY said "I am God, worship me", we Muslim cannot see that Jesus is a God.
SilverRossier 1 year ago
@SilverRossier I FEEL SORRY FOR U! Thats all
Afghanistang 10 months ago
@SilverRossier Jesus plainly told you that he came to die for the sins of many by crucifixion and yet you do not accept that. How can you accept a greater truth that he is God in the flesh?
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 10 months ago
@jorsak
We Muslims believe Jesus AS is still alive. Risen to Heaven, rescued by God from the Romans and the Jews who persecuted him. The one on the stake is the traitorous Judas instead.
This is strictly my opinion but I much prefer knowing Jesus is still alive than knowing he is dead, crucified, condemned and poked with spears in the ribs.
SilverRossier 7 months ago
@SilverRossier I am quite familiar with what Muslims believe. It is, however, devoid of a knowledge of the scriptures. The law requires sacrifice for sin (Leviticus 16:15-16, 17:11, Hebrews 9:22). The prophets foretold the role of the coming Messiah to BE that sacrifice for sin (Isiah 53, Psalm 22) and the Messiah himself repeatedly told you that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34), HOW he came to die (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and exactly WHY he must die (Matthew 26:28).
(cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
Thus, when Islam says that the Messiah did not die, it is calling the Messiah a liar, the prophets a liar and making a mokery of the law.
Now... and I REALLY ask that you prayerfully consider the facts here... when Jesus first told his disciples that he was going to go into Jerusalem to die, Peter (his closest disciple) told him that he would not allow it to happen. He held the view of the Muslim.
But what did Jesus think of this view? Let's look at the ACTUAL conversation!
(cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. 22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” 23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; (cont.)
jorsak 7 months ago
you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” (matthew 16:21-23)
Jesus called Peter SATAN for suggesting that he would not allow him to die on the cross. PLEASE for the sake of your eternal sole, consider the fact that Jesus' own view of the cross was 100% opposite of what Islam teaches.
Islam is in direct disagreement with the law of God, the Prophets of God, and the Messiah himself. PLEASE consider this.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 7 months ago
@jorsak
Hmmm...... I just can't swallow the fact that.... Someone has to die for our own sins.
I have no points to argue. My lack of knowledge signals me to stop.
SilverRossier 6 months ago
@SilverRossier Well my friend, I certainly appreciate the maturity of that response. To often lack of knowledge never hinders the responses. :-) I would only ask you to consider the idea that if God laid out the system of sacrifice practiced for thousands of years, that his prophets foretold the role of the Messiah to be such sacrifice and that the Messiah himself so extensively spoke on the subject that perhaps it would be a subject worth becoming conversant in. (Cont.)
jorsak 6 months ago
Since, if I am wrong and you are right, I will spend a bit of time paying / atoning for never having come to faith in Allah but for having sought out God as best I understood. However, If I am right and you are wrong, then eternity will be spent separated from God. That's a rather serious situation.
Blessings, and thank you for the sincere and mature response.
Joe
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak
Ohoh, I too appreciate your maturity~ Since we both respect each others view, it is then best that we return to our lives and research about each other's religions, without intending to attack each other with bias.
I hope to continue this discussion. I hope to read the al-Maryam, in the Quran to give you evidence from Quran that Jesus is still alive. :D With that, I bid you good health~
SilverRossier 6 months ago
@SilverRossier Any time you would like to chat, please feel free to message me.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak
Think about it, man.
Humanity that lived on since the time of Adam until now.. No one can ever measure the vastness of the sins accumulated by humanity. To me, those sins cannot be dispersed by the sacrifice of a man, what more to say the Son of God, or as the Muslim prefer it, prophet of God.
SilverRossier 7 months ago
No prophet was sent after the Messiah, as the Messiah who was foretold to come,came as Jesus and only Jesus is to return
Muhammad claimed that Jesus didn't die on the cross but another who looked like him, died instead sura 4:157 and that statement is proof Islam does not confirm the scriptures but contradicts them
Furthermore,Islamic praise of Jesus is fake for Islam is war against Christianity sura 9:29 and proof is all the Middle East were Christian nations forced to convert to Islam
BonjourNuit120 1 year ago
@BonjourNuit120
What you do not know that we Muslims are following the old Christian ways before it was infiltrated.
Read your Bible and read the Quran. We are your successor! To deny Jesus and to fake our praises for him is a sin for us!
Please, understand that the Muslims, most of them do not mean any war against the Christians.
SilverRossier 1 year ago
@SilverRossier Muslims never followed the old Christian ways and you do not even know what those ways were. The only one who attempted to infiltrate Christianity was Muhammad who was never be a prophet of God. You see, God chose Isaac over Ishmael to carry as everlasting the covenant thus prophetic line and that means your Muhammad who prescribed war to you was never a prophet of God but used God to invent a religion of all that causes hell on earth.
BonjourNuit120 1 year ago
@BonjourNuit120
You need to know what Islam is from a MUSLIM FAITHFUL my friend, not from people who THINKS they grasped what Islam is all about.
I cannot do much in the net, because people like me will end up being trolled, ridiculed and looked down upon.
Please, shatter that hatred and know what Islam is to ease your mind.
I'm not telling you to convert to Islam, but you must know what Islam teaches to ease your mind.
Please read our Quran translation. Glimpse what it has to say.
SilverRossier 1 year ago 2
@SilverRossier Most Muslims like most People are good people, it is not Muslim's fault they were deceived by Muhammad who was deceived by Satan.
I have read the Bible and I have read the Quran but unlike you, I am honest.
Indeed Muslims seek to dominate the world but Islam is not Christianity's successor instead Islam is a continuation of Satan for only Satan uses God to oppress,to deceive and to use violence to win his slaves and Satan has 1.4 billion Muslims who defend him with their souls.
BonjourNuit120 1 year ago
@BonjourNuit120
Then give me evidence that my religion seek to dominate the world.
Give me evidence that Muhammad was deceived by Satan.
Give me evidence that our religion oppresses.
Give me evidence that 1.4 billion Muslims are under Satan.
Prove to me, my HONEST, friend, your honesty.
SilverRossier 1 year ago
Muslim Scholar Admits Muhammad Was A Pedophile.
I wipe my ass with the Koran everyday. That is the best treatment for a book written by a paedophile.
alarmedbutcalm 1 year ago
@alarmedbutcalm and what do you think will come after that ? will god reward you for that ? or you will be more rich ? or did this gave you happiness in your life ?
9540086 1 year ago
@alarmedbutcalm i bet jesus the same with Mary Magdalene..during those day people dont care much about age in term of sex and marriage... i bet Mary Magdalene also minor... u cant beat the history... bible is history but u believe it but why cant u believe history of civilization?
suhana3479 1 year ago
Muhammad who could not read, claimed he confirmed the scriptures, to confirm to agree
Muhammad who could not read, did not know the Bible for Muhammad said Jesus and Mary were the only ones who were sinless yet Muhammad said Jesus didn't die on the cross but another who looked like him died instead sura 4:157 which contradicts the Bible
For Jesus was not a liar and he foretold he would go to the cross and when Peter tried to stop him, Jesus said stand behind me Satan,
Mt 16:23
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
@bonjourNuit120 i agree with you 100%
Paul is a founder of chrisianity not jesus! The origins of pagon cult brought up by Paul to make the pagons of Roman empire to convert to christianity , Jesus was sent to children of israel to fulfil the law of Moses.But Paul claimed he is the apostle of the gentiles (non jewish) and saw jesus in a vission and he came with teachings oppiset of jesus.
Christians open your eyes and hearts and convert to real religen of Jesus which is islam.
Sager145 2 years ago
Jesus is the founder of Christianity, Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles. Paul won for Jesus both Greece and Turkey without bloodshed.
Muslims who pretended to Praise Jesus, with their fake peace, has murdered and robbed from Jesus millions of People and Muslims have robbed from Jesus, all the Christian nations of Northern Africa, all of the Middle East including Turkey and Egypt.
Islam is a false man made evil religion using God to oppress its own followers and to war against all non Muslims
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
@BonjourNuit120 I am Egyptian, a Christian, and you are exactly right.
imacheese1 1 year ago
@imacheese1 Blessings to YOU and to all Coptic Christians whose faith has not been in vain despite All of Northern Africa, all of Egypt, all of the Middle East even all of Turkey were once Christian nations forced to convert to Islam.
Brave are your People who endured over a thousand years of Islamic persecution.
Jesus will return, to defend Israel against Islam and a day shall come when all the world will know God came as Jesus (Isaiah 35:4-8, Rev 21:3-4)
Until then, Ask for the Holy Spirit
BonjourNuit120 1 year ago
Open your own eyes that are blinded by fear
in which you believe your own lies.
God is not evil and Muhammad added Satan before God when he accused God of rewarding murderers with the spoils of war and then chopping off the hands of thieves.
Muhammad died a pagan and Muslims bow down to a pagan moon god in which the crescent moon is Islam's symbol
Islam is the anti Christ, when Jesus appears it will not be to bow down to Satan's religion, Islam but to destroy it, and that is a promise by God
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
Paul was a writer and a bounty hunter he made christianity..
Omgtheykilledme 1 year ago
@Sager145 You are completely wrong. Paul was a gentile. So he wrote for the gentiles in their own language. He was called Saul before, and would persecute Christians day and night, till Christ came and said to him "Saul Saul, why do you persecute Me?", upon which Christ changed his name to Paul, and he became arguably the most profound Christian preacher for Christ, and never shed any blood. His shadow would fall on the sick, and they were healed. look up 4.89 if you wish to contrast the Koran.
imacheese1 1 year ago
This all none sense. There is no where in the whole bible where God ordered the sacrifice of an innocent human being as a condition to forgive the sins of mankind. This is all lies made up by the liar Paul and Prophet Jesus has nothing to do with it. Jesus Said the only way to the Kingdom of God is by KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS AND NOT BY SOME WEIRD ALLEGED HUMAN SACRIFICE THAT PAUL THE APOSTATE AND LIAR MADE UP. No where did Jesus say "I will die for the sins of mankind". NO WHERE. ALL LIES
IslamLearning 2 years ago 17
Isaiah records of the Messiah in chapter:
3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
and by his wounds we are healed.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death,
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
(The LORD makes his life a WHAT???)
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors.
(cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
He BORE THE SIN OF MAN.
This is just ONE chapter of the prophets that clearly identifies the role of the Messiah to come, suffer, and die bearing teh sins of MANY.
Jesus told you on NUMEROUS occasions that he came to die (Mark 8:31,9:31, 10:33-34)
he told you on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS exactly HOW he would die (Matthew 20:19, 26:2, etc.)
And he told you EXACTLY WHY he must die which is plainly stated (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." -Matthew 26:28
So before you go disparaging a called apostle of God (Paul) who was more highly trained than any of the disciples in the law and prophets, you'd better know what you are talking about as you will be held accountable before God for every word you speak.
Salaam,
Joe
PS. That passage from Isaiah is chapter 53.
jorsak 2 years ago
@IslamLearning "For greater love hath no man, than he lay down his life for his friends".
The law of the OT was harsh, and hard to keep - it was however, still good, but mankind was not good enough to keep it. So Christ came, and He completed the law FOR us, part of which was a sacrifice for sins (The repentant would place their hand on the animals head, confess their sins, the sins would now be on the animal's head, and the animal slaughtered, hence destroying the sin). Since Christ is limitles
imacheese1 1 year ago
@IslamLearning He was able to take ALL our sins, and die for us. But in order to be absolved, we must accept him. If you choose to respond, please do so without offence, and calling my religion and saviour "made up".
imacheese1 1 year ago
@IslamLearning Muslims always attack Paul in order to justify their heresy. Jesus Himself said that He would be crucified. In Rev 1:18, He apppeared to John in all His glory and the disciple who had been with Him for three years fell as dead when he saw Jesus in His glory. And was muhammed even born when all this happened. If I don't believe the words of the disciples of Jesus, why believe the words of a normad, who was born about 600 years later, claiming an angel told him Jesus did not die?
chine62 1 year ago
Ali, with all due respect, what difference does it make if you treat the Bible with the same contempt as the Jews who stoned the prophets. You are guilty of the same sin...willful ignorance.
When you hear the Truth but ignore it, you are dabbling with witchcraft.
If God did not spare a King...
1Sa 15:23 Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, & stubbornness is as iniquity & idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you....
Wise up & face the Truth!
johndeweb 2 years ago
Now i have to say.......Everyone on youtube throws the IGNORANT CLAIM........If someone asks a question. Make it clear and answer it.......
So answer me this, The bible....Has it been altered?
When i say this, i mean words changed to more understandable words. Which hence give a differant interpretation. Can this not cause alot of conflict of interpretation of your scripture?
zebz321 2 years ago
Do you think if Hitler (who killed millions of innocent Jews) was traveling back to Berlin and he claim to see a mysterious vision and light from Moses who suppose to instruct him to be an apostle of Moses and to write 20 new books and ask the Jews to follow them. YOU THINK THE JEWS WILL BELIEVE IN THIS DIRTY TRICK?????THE ANSWER IS BIG NO.Why do you follow Paul (Hitler of the early Christians). What is wrong with you?? can you think and REALIZE??why are you so brainwashed???
IslamLearning 2 years ago
Paul, hitler of teh early Christians! LOL! Are you utterly daft??!?!?!
By Hitler's command 6 million+ Jews were killed. And you accuse ME of being brainwashed?!?!?
You have swallowed the kool-aid by the barrell.
Please... I'm am DYING to see your historically CORRECT comparison between Hitler and Paul.
PLEASE PLEASE enlighten us all here and demonstrate that it is ME and not YOU that is brainwashed when you make such utterly absurd comments.
I'm waiting.
jorsak 2 years ago
Muslims were taught falsehoods about Jesus and Christianity, they claim they praise Jesus when they do not know his message nor his teachings
Jesus taught Love God with all your being and love your neighbors for he said that was the sum total of all the teachings of all the prophets but Muhammad taught wage war with the infidel as are your neighbors
Muslims's praise of Jesus means nothing as they have robbed from Jesus many Christian nations and forced them to convert to Islam
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
BonjouNuit120, I have lived side by side with christans, infact my best friend for life is christan. Islam that I believe in does not wag war against non-muslims as you claim. only you now can cause this by your false claims.if you keep feeding your false accusation to people arround you. May ALLAH(GOD) show you the truth if you deserve to be shown the truth. jew,christan and muslims are nothing without faith and not politics.
MHMA23 2 years ago
and I have lived and been to many multicultural places and seen humans male and females embrace Islam for its true nature and not by force
MHMA23 2 years ago
People embrace Islam because of deception for tGod foretold that people will believe in lies of demons and only Islam has a chapter on Djinn or demons
Would anyone join a religion that prescribes war to them against non Muslims
Would anyone Join Islam if they knew the Hadiths that say kill those who leave Islam
Would anyone join Islam if they knew no prophet was sent after the messiah as only he is to return
NO ONE but the deceived joins Islam
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
look into relgion and what God has sent us through out ages, from the time of ibrahim(pbuh)to the time of Muhamed(pbuh) every nation had a messenger, every nation had a message from God to only worship him.then what happenes, people deny them people kill them, and people disbelieve them and you are being one of them at the moment as you post all this false accustations.and only in the Quran that God says that Muhammed(Pbuh) is the last prophet and not in the Bible.
MHMA23 2 years ago
how many priests of christianity have embraced Islam, yusuf estesis one of them, maybe you need to watch some of his videos on youtube. as for the Jinn and demones, we do not worshib them, if you know how a muslim prayes and what he says in his prayers i guess you would never say that! we pray 5 times a day for him not for satan, we start our prayers by asking God to protect us from satan, we know what satan is and what God is there is no comparison my friend, none at all.
MHMA23 2 years ago
Hey pagan shit. Why do you keep posting the same comments over and over again. Don't you have a life or something better to do. GO worship your Sun God Mithra/Horus(birth date Dec.25th/Christmas day),Your Goddess Esther (birth date Easter Day) and the God Pan (Good Friday). Your Gods and Goddesses are going to be mad if you don't drink their blood and eat their flesh. By the way, don't Forget to worship the Roman SUN God Horus on "SUN-DAY". YOU PAGAN IDIOT.
IslamLearning 2 years ago
Only Muhammad was a pagan all his life as only his people worshiped 360 idols of the Kaaba, one being a black stone, moon god called Allah
It is not me but 1.4 billion Muslims who bow down towards a craven image, praising Muhammad's hand Muppet, Allah and Muhammad 5 times a day
But unlike other pagans, only Muhammad used God to invent a religion of war against all non Muslims, in Muhammad's quest for power, fortune and female slaves
and it is Islam that God himself will destroy
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
Only Paul (piss be upon him)the Pagan and all his followers today including you are pagans and Polytheists. Paul the liar started to mixing mithrasim with the Islamic teaching of Profit Jesus to attract your pagan ancestors to his new religion and distort the original teaching of Jesus. Muslims don't worship any black stone or a moon god and we don't rape women like christians do on the streets everyday in the west. WE WORSHIP THE GOD WHO CREATED THE THE HUMAN BEING YOU WORSHIP U PAGAN IDIOT.
IslamLearning 2 years ago
God's LAW requires sacrifice for sin (Leviticus 16) God's Prophet's state that the Messiah would die (Psalm 22) and would die for our transgressions (Isaiah 53).
Jesus himself stated MANY times that he would die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34) and HOW he would die (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and WHY he would die (Matthew 26:28).
Jesus HIMSELF stated that his blood woul dbe spilled for the FORGIVENESS OF SIN for many.
Islam contradicts God's Law, his prophets, and The Messiah himself.
jorsak 2 years ago
"Hey pagan shit."
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
jorsak 2 years ago
Back to you "PAGAN SHIT". I think both you and BonjourNuit120 need to learn how to talk to and respect other people beliefs and religions if you want your own belief and religion to be respected. If you want to insult someone else religion, then be prepared for a the same level of response back until you begin to show some respect to other faiths.
I don't mind civil dialogues, but if you begin to insult my new faith, I will respond back with the same level of insult and more.
IslamLearning 2 years ago
Your profanity is quite revealing.
"I think both you and BonjourNuit120 need to learn how to talk to and respect other people beliefs and religions "
And I think you need to quit slandering people and being profane. Show me where I have been disrespectful towards you or anyone else here. Show me where I have ever used profanity towards you.
Commandment 9: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
For me to call you faith a false religion and then post the (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
REASONS for its falsehood is NOT disrespect. It is called argumentation. (definition: an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.)
If you are learning your faith then you should learn to drop the profanity.
And if you REALLY want to learn about God, study how he has revealed himself and what he has stated before. God does not contradict himself and the simple fact of the matter is, God's law requires sacrifice for sin.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
1st of all, my early comments were not directed to you at all. your brother in faith BonjourNuit120 is all over youtube insulting Islam, calling us pagans, killers, liars, and Satan followers and I guess that is OK with you (since you are both Christians) when everyone insult Islam but when we defend back our religion, we will be accused of spreading profanity. Again, you are just a typical follower of Paul religion of double standards and hypocrisy. teach ur christian friends to respect others.
IslamLearning 2 years ago
Do not deny what the Quran itself teaches
The Quran teaches war and hatred against all non Muslims. So Don't deny it
We all have to live with diversity but only Islam is intolerant of other religions, is that not so
Why do you deny it? Either you do not know your Quran or you are lying for Islam
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
first of all, please don't get offended by what i wrote, as there is no need to, and no need to get angry. the quran is only one "version" since the day it was written down by muslims after the prohets death. secondly the quran does not teach hatred against non muslims, this is yet another false accusation from your side. thirdly I don'y have to lie for islam there is no need for me to do so, I'm only replying to your accusations as i feel you are misguided or mislead for however age you are
MHMA23 2 years ago
I think the one who is promoting violance right now is you, by false accusations, any one who reads these comments can be decieved by them but in the Quran God states that if all mankind were to believe or disbelive, it wouldn't affect him a tiny bit ( I can tell you were to read it) but I'll leave it to you if you want to as am not forceful:) have a good day.
MHMA23 2 years ago
When your Quran teaches, God only accepts Islam, exalt Islam above the other religions, wage war with those whom the scriptures have been given, conquer the world for Islam, strike terror into the infidel, strike off their heads until you make a great slaughter from among them, then I am quoting the Quran
but you are denying it for the tactic of you Muslims is to deny even what the Quran says
So read your own Quran, preferably an older version that is more honest
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
in you tube search for ( islam increase) and watch the first video and tell me who and why would you want to supress peoples believe if it wasn't true and right.
MHMA23 2 years ago
I embrace all humankind for God is with all people but I cannot stop people from joining the only religion Islam that began with a false prophet who was a mass murderer and who used God in quest of power, fortune and female slaves.
But no one would join Islam if they truly read and understood the Quran for they would realize the many contradictions, the hatred, the violence, the threats and bribery Muhammad used to obtain his followers
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
Read the true books not the ones you;ve been claiming that you read. know your God first before teaching others who God is:) I have nothing to prove to anyone that God even exists, I have nothing in my pockets nor in my mind, I only have faith and believe, I know they are enough. and there is so many people out there muslims and non muslims that are like me too. and am sure that whatever you say to them or post to them is like dust in the wind.
MHMA23 2 years ago
I experience God's Loving Presence for 30 years and few people have never experienced one second of awareness of God's Presence in their whole life time
That is why my Christian religion is so important to me, for it allows all the world to experience and to know God and because I do know God, I know Islam is not from God for God does not hate non Muslims, God does not deceive,God does not kill people through warriors then reward the warriors with little girls as sex slaves as does your Quran
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
My words are only dust in the wind to those who are dead, who cannot see or hear not to those who seek the Truth as only God is the truth. God created all the world and all humankind and God is with each person on earth and it was and is a God given right to experience God for that is true paradise and a true prophet was to return you to that knowledge that God knows you best and that God himself guides you best for it would end hell on earth
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
you seek deception, and not truth, so what you will always see is deception, and never truth. God is one God is great, we experience God's presence every day 5 times, God told us that satan has no power on us nor can he harm us and bu us I mean all humans from all races and religions. so no we are not decived by satan, and history is for fools, muslims are not prohits nor are they sinless, so as christans and jews.
MHMA23 2 years ago
No one can fight Satan if they do not know what Satan is
Satan is the lies people were force fed about God that blind them from seeing God is with them and all people on earth. Satan is also hatred and the Quran teaches you to hate non Muslims
Lies and hatred does have power over you for they generate wars and wars are the greatest of evils
and Muslims Have been deceived by Satan because no prophet was sent after the messiah as only he is to return, Muhammad invented a religion of war using God
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
my last message to you or post here would be a question: do jews believe in jesus(Pbuh)? do they say that Jesus(Pbuh) the true messaiah was crusified? no they don't. up till today they deny that jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago, but hey we muslims believe you and believe that jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago, and yet you describe us as Satan worshipers, and demon worshipers! well ...
MHMA23 2 years ago
It is alright if Jews did not believe Jesus was the messiah because if they all converted to Christianity, then they would not have been able to fulfill a promise God made, which was the promise that the Jews will return to Israel
Don't point your finger at them, when you Muslims hated and killed millions of Jews and Christians while you pretended to praise Jesus as you Muslims robbed from Jesus dozens of Christian nations forcing them to convert to Islam the only religion on earth from Satan
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
Without knowing it, Muslims were enslaved by Satan
Satan couldn't capture a fly if he was honest,
Do you think Satan is stupid to have captured 1.4 Billion intelligent Muslims?
Satan is the greatest deceiver and he is your god as Muslims are born trusting with only the desire to obey God, it is not their fault Muhammad was deceived and deceived them by creating a religion of war in which deception, hating, exploiting, killing are commanded of you as these evil acts do not serve God but Satan
BonjourNuit120 2 years ago
#1. It was recorded by JEWISH prophets that the Messiah would be rejected by HIS OWN PEOPLE (Isaiah 6:9-10, 49:4, Psalm 118:22, etc.)
#2. The Jews do not deny Jesus walked the earth. His miracles are spoken of in the talmud so that's a rather flawed argument. They simply do not acknowledge him as the Messiah (in fulfillment of prophecy)
#3. The issue with Islam and Christianity is that it makes Jesus a liar. He states repeatedly that he would die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34)
(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
and he stated exactly HOW he would die (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and exactly WHY he would die (Matthew 26:28).
The prophets say how the Messiah would die (Psalm 22, Isaiah 53) and exaclt WHY he would die (Isaiah 53:4-6,10).
ANd God's law is very clear that sin requires sacrifice (Lev 16:15-16) and that God's law is unchanging (Matthew 5:18)>
So, Islam contradicts the law, the prophets, and even the Messiah himself.
THAT's the issue.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
there is no need to for comments like "pagan shit" , check your refrences again as the talmud is not the torrah. and if you believe so much in what you say and i believe so much in what i say then there will be a time when the truth will be revealed. but we'll have to wait and see.. so sit tight.
MHMA23 2 years ago
and the arrgument isn't how Jesus died or why he died, the arrgument is "is Jesus God" and if you believe he was then am not here to make you believe otherwise, its your own believe and i have mine but am not going to judge you for your believe, only God does that not humans, and islam doesn't contradict Gods law as it is from God "thats my believe" so no need to try and prove that it isn't from God, as i Wont work. And God is Allah to me and to many others.
MHMA23 2 years ago
"Pagan shit" is that how your believe tought you how to start conversations? am sure its not its rather your ownself.
MHMA23 2 years ago
Please review basic English grammar. A " is used when you are QUOTING someone.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
well I;m sorry if you you were referred to as a "Pagant Shit" no one has the right to judge you for your believe. anyways thats not my intention as well. and my grammar is ok so far i guess!:) , as i said before the Quran doesnt teach us hatred towards non muslims, and I can prove it to you through verses from the Quran, and as well the Quran we believe is the word of GOD but the Talmud you mention is from rabinal teaching and commentary, and in the Quran there is a whole chapter about Jesus
MHMA23 2 years ago
and it confirms to all Jesus's miricals and what he did and only is the crucifiction part that the Quran mentions it diffrently, so can you tell me if the Quran wasn't right and islam wasn't right then why does it confirm with all what Jesus did from his birth till his return, and only denies that he was crucified or that he was GOD. why wouldn't it just deny his miricals as well or not mention that he raise the dead, or talked as a baby? why? would it be difficult ? no it woldn't
MHMA23 2 years ago
but because its the truth that a lot of human being don't want to hear and believe because of selfish intentions and agendas that makes us fight one another. see I don't have to try and justify any actions done by muslims or non-muslims but in a perfect world things would be diffrent , but it's not and will never be a perfect world, so you keep believing what you want and i will keep believing what I want and Like God tells us in the end he will inform us of our diffrences.
Salaam :)
MHMA23 2 years ago
And by the way you used the word Exactly many times, the prophets you talked about don't know what Exactly would happen as only GOD knows exactly what would happen other wise we would all be following a script or a scenario... just a thought.
MHMA23 2 years ago
Oh my friend, you ask THE question and you don't even KNOW that import of it.
Why indeed! Why would the messenger who spoke to Mohamed tell him all this information but change the information on Jesus' diety and his crucifixion?
I will let scripture speak for itself:
"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel YOU ARE SAVED, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I RECEIVED I PASS ON to you as of first importance: that Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES,"
And this, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
The message was changed because it is that very part that leads to your salvation! Satan does not(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
care how many good works you try to do. You will never be able to follow God's law to perfection which is his required standard. You will sin as we all do and God's law REQUIRES sacrifice for sin. Without Jesus' death, you have NO SALVATION. Thus, the message was changed because it is the very part of salvation.
Mohemed may have been well intentioned, but he was mislead by satan as scripture warned:
"14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
No, you are wrong. Your statement was made by Paul(the founder of Christianity) who taught repenting can only be done through blood and human sacrifices and it has nothing to do with the teaching of Profit Jesus. Prophet Jesus taught
us to keep the COMMANDMENTS AND THAT GOD IS ONE(NOT 3 GODS IN 1 GOD).Read Mark 12:29. Again, the only way to salvation is not THROUGH THE TORTURE AND KILLING OF INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS but by repenting to God Almighty directly. Read Ezekiel 18:20-25 GODS LAW NOT PAUL
IslamLearning 2 years ago
Read ISAIAH 53 (which I have been qouting to you for days now).
This is what the prophets said of the Messiah:
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
He was PIERCED for what? OUR INIQUITIES. (Please look that up.)
The PUNISHMENT that BROUGHT US PEACE was.... UPON HIM!
By HIS WOUNDS we ARE HEALED.
Now please... I pray that you will actually (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
READ this.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering...
It was the LORD's will to do what? To Crush him and cause him to suffer. Why? What did the LORD make of his life?
A GUILT OFFERING.
So, what you do not realize my friend when you break the 9th commandment and bear false witness against Paul, is that Paul taught straight from the prophets of the old testament in accord with the law (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
of God.
If you knew ANYTHING of God's word, you'd know that. Instead, you accuse others of being brainwashed and you repeat the false arguments of Muslim men men who know not the what the Jewish prophets have said or what God's law has stated.
And for that reason you do not know that Islam contradicts the Law of God, his prophets, and His Messiah.
You quote Ezekiel 18 because THEY have quoted Ezekiel 18. God's law is UNCHANGING. No prophet EVER contradicts God's law. And if (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
you knew God's word, you'd know that Ezekiel continues discussing sacrifice ALL THROUGHOUT his book. You'd know that EZEKIEL gives the measurements and the designs for THE ALTAR OF SACRIFICE (Ez. 43:13-25).
If you yourself actually knew God's word instead of drinking in the kool-aid that these false teachers have poured into you, then you would KNOW such things. You would KNOW that Paul taught EXACTLY what the prophets and the law commanded.
So I'm waiting... Hitler... Paul. GO!
jorsak 2 years ago
The following statement "14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." is directed toward Paul the enemy of Jesus who claimed to see a mysterious light and a vision of someone called "Jesus" which was Satan in reality since the teaching of Paul contradict it self so MANY TIMES and it contradict the beautiful Teaching of prophet Jesus. Paul hijacked the good teaching of Jesus to make a name from himself and misguide many after him. Exactly what is happening NOW.
IslamLearning 2 years ago
Islamlearning, whatever Bonjoujour nuit says here isn't new to us, like jorsak says and speaks of salavation and sins and that prophet Muhammed pbuh was a student for satan!! or whatever he said now!:) we believe what we believe and they believe what they believe... let them be Bonjounuit can go on insulting us and islam as much as he wants as he is only insulting himself, and his faith. God has a reason for them bieng blinded by their ego
MHMA23 2 years ago
and yet every day people see the truth and they embrace Islam more and more and you know why they do? its because God is merciful to humans he helps and leads them to the truth. not because we defend Islam.. I asked one question for joresk and all I got from him was strange answers, accusing our Prophet of being mislead by satan! and not for 1 sec did he show any signs of argument in what he believes in. so this is the new accusation " we are satan worshipers"!!!!
MHMA23 2 years ago
sorry its Jorsak, just in case he corrects my spelling and grammar...
MHMA23 2 years ago
I don't care about spelling and grammar. My name is Joe, last name is Orsak. You are more than welcome to call me Joe.
jorsak 2 years ago
why do you argue with them in what you know is a setup, its not arrguments any more my friend, the time for that is gone, anyways.. hope these comments wouldn't offened anyone as its not intended to, and hope it finds you well
MHMA23 2 years ago
Demonstrate that what Paul (Trained by the reknown Jewish theologian - Gamliel) taught that was in conflict with the law and prophets.
Thus far, I have quoted you the law, the prophets, and the Messiah and told you that Islam contradicts them and you have yet to refute that.
Your whole defense is to say that I am a follower of Paul and you don't see that at all. To you, you have made some intelligent comment.
Sad.
jorsak 2 years ago
I don't know why you choose to say good works as if Islam and the Quran only mentions Good deeds... when you read the Quran I asure you that the word "Faith" comes before "Good deeds" in every verse that is mentioned in the quran if you do good deeds in your life its not enough it has to be good deeds whilest you have faith and so "Faith" comes first my friend and then "salvation" tell me something why dosomeone need salvation if he doesn't have faith, and how can faith be for none but God !
MHMA23 2 years ago
This last comment was for Jorsak and not you IslamLearning, sorry I didnt make it clear, ! I agree with you Jorsak that salvation is an important aspect in your believe but believe me am a muslim and salvation isa great aspect in my believe but not in the same sense that it is for you.
MHMA23 2 years ago
My friend, you asked an honest question and I gave an honest and sincere response.
I believe that the law of God clearly demonstrates that sacrifice is required for sin. I believe that it is completely sound and logical to conclude that God's law is unchanging. If God's law is changing, then God is changing and I know that is false.
I believe that it is clear that the prophets taught that the Messiah would suffer and die for the transgressions of humanity. I have provided (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
specific quotes demonstrating that.
I provided numerous quotes from Jesus himself demonstrating abundantly that he intended to die, how he was to die, and WHY he was to die.
Apart from Jesus' death on the cross there is no salvation for man. None.
You MUST, according to God's law, offer sacrifice for sin. I have made my offering and by that offering I am perfect and without sin and thus will have salvation.
That is ALL in accord with God's law. you asked me why the only (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
thing not mentioned about Jesus in the Qur'an is that he is God and the Crucifixion. And I honestly answered that the only thing cares about you NOT knowing is how to be saved.
I said good works as an example, all your good works and belief (Faith) will do you no good what so ever if you do not believe in what is required for salvation.
Muslims quote "Bring your proof if you are truthful" [Al-Baqarah (2):111] and I have done just that. None of what I have offered has been refuted (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
and I shared it with honesty in answering your question.
When I said that I believe Satan spoke to Mohamed, I understand that that can be offensive though I did not say it as an offense but to sincerely offer what I believe happened.
If we are forwarned that Satan comes masquaring as an angel of light and if we are warned about these angels changing the gospel message, should it be offensive to offer that as an explination for the message being changed by the messenger of the Qur'an?
jorsak 2 years ago
All of what I said has been to include God's law, his prophets, His Messiah, etc. I have demonstrated that the entire message is consistent and that Islam is in contradiction to it.
I hope that as an obviously gentile natured and intelligent person, you can see I meant not to offend for the sake of offense but to sincerely provide you with an honest answer to your question.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Joe, your words show faith, also shows that you have believe, we share that at least but our definitions are diffrent and thats what we are discussing
MHMA23 2 years ago
right? so you mentioned that satan has influnced men someway or another to follow him and your explanatin for the holy Quran is that its from satan. I will disagree with you in that because stan wouldn't ask 1.6 billion human being to pray 5 times a day to God, or forgive or to be fair, not commit adultry, not to cheat, not to lie, not to support one another, or not to take intrest,not to respect your parents, not to believe in prophets,not to look after you nighbours,
MHMA23 2 years ago
My friend, let me pose this honest question to you but let me first saythis: I do not consider you an evil person nor do I harbor any ill-feelings towards you in the slightest. For me to say that Satan is behind the deception that is Islam, i KNOW sounds offensive but as I have said, previously, I am not trying to be offensive for the sake of offense but for enlightenment and I hope that you can sincerely see the difference.
Now, let me pose the questions and I hope you will see the (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
logic behind it.
Satan is refered to as the great deceiver in Christinaity not as the great boldfaced liar. a bold lie is easily detected but deceit is best wrapped in partial truths.
If Jesus was correct when he stated, "I am THE way and THE truth and THE life. NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH ME." then wouldn't it be JUST LIKE Satan to give you all the feelings of righteousness and safety and eternal security but deny you salvation?
Now THAT is JUST like Satan! (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
Woudl it not make COMPLETE sense that Satan would make you FEEL SAFE and secure in your relationship with God but to retract the VERY THING that ACTUALLY gave you salvation?
When satan told Eve to eat the apple in the garden, he did not lie outright. His lie was in the deception wrapped in partial truth. THAT is how he operates.
Satan does not care if you bow 5 times a day and pray, give to the poor, etc, if your eternal home is hell. As long as you believe that the cross is a lie,(Cont)
jorsak 2 years ago
he has you right where he wants you.
I do hope you see the logic of that.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Well Joe, I can say exactly the same to you , that satan has you exactly where he want you to be..:) thats not my arrgument though... every prophet that ws send to us had a message, and it was to worship the only God, the one God, so the only decieved humans that satan is decieving right now are the ones that worship no God(sorry to use these words) but islam believe in the ones of GOD so as christianity but with a diffrent concept( diffrent) not right or wrong, but diffrent(cont)
MHMA23 2 years ago
You COULD say that and that would be a logical rebuttal.
However, I want you to consider... My next question which to me would be th elogical question to ask... WHICH came first?
It certainly would be possible and feesible to argue that as a Christian I have been deceived into following a false path should Islam have come prior and Christinaity was the new thing which is different.
But, my friend, Christianity predates Islam by some 600+ years. And it is following (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
the law which requires sacrifice for sin and the prophets who said the Messiah would die for the sins of mankind. So, I feel that the logical question MUST be asked.
I THANK YOU SO MUCH for the civility and as you said honesty of your responses and I know I would enjoy having you as a friend in day to day life.
I have said many times that we have more in common than not. We both hunger for a world of righteousness focused on God.
Blessings on you and yours,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
thank you again Joe for your kind words, I hope that niether one of us would have hell as his eternal home... blessings to you as well and to all who is close to you...
and yes maybe .:) maybe we will be friendsone day..who knows...till then keep your heart open....
MHMA23 2 years ago
Wellllll.....
Hey, in your religion, I am not bound for hell. I think, if I understand correctly, I will be their briefly and then on to paradise. Correct? I'm not 100% on that but I seem to remember that.
HOWEVER, in my faith. Without Jesus as the sacrifice for sin, then it's hell.
I think you should switch just to be safe. :-p
Peace,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
My friend, your logic now isn't straight forward.:) do you think that God who created every living thing, created the universe and all what it have, would work on time, ! he created time for us created past present and future for us, do you think he has a past, present or even a future! and I never said that you were decieved into following a false path.. you are following Jesus(Pbuh). but your defenition and interpretation to the bible is diffrent from mine "in Logic" cont
MHMA23 2 years ago
God is above time and does not operate within time but HUMANS do and his interaction with humanity IS within time as we experience it that way.
Thus, God does not send a prophet in OUR timeline 600 years after that contradicts his word.
Mohamed is most certainly AFTER Jesus in OUR timeline, whether in God's or not. Our interaction with God IS.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Joe this is a wrong understanding.
God says in the quran, bible and even the hindu vadas say it, god will forgive ALL sins EXCEPT for Shirk (ascribing partners to him) and in your faith Jesus is ascribed as a partner to god.
So no my friend, if you dont like islam atleast you might be safe with judaism because these are the only 2 truly monothiestic religions out there. with islam you get Jesus as a messenger however so that is to your benifit.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Ali,
Ali, forgiveness and consequence are different things. If you rob me, I can forgive you but when caught, you still have the consequences of that action.
God is VERY clear in his law that sin requires sacrifice to atone for sin. He says it PLAINLY.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Now, you don't have to like that or agree but (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
that IS God's law.
God's law is unchanging as God is unchanging.
And your misrepresenting God and Christian theology when you assert that we believe in multiple Gods.
It's a rather underhanded little trick that Muslims try to play. "Here's what you believe... you believe in three Gods. See, you aren't monotheistic."
It's an utter falsehood and bearing false witness against Christianity.
There is ONE God in three persons as there is ONE marriage in two persons. You do not have to (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
agree but you also should not misrepresent my beliefs.
In conclusions, God's law is plainly clear that sacrifice for sin is REQUIRED. God's prophets clearly spoke of the Messiahs death and his life being made a guilt offering for the sins of man and Jesus himself repeatedly spoke of it.
Islam contradicts all of that.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Joe,
God says Clearly in Ezekiel 18:18-22 that if a person changes his ways and repents he will have eternal life.
But even still as a muslim i still perfrom the sacrifice, in less than a month i will be perfoming this duty once more god willing, you say god is unchanging yet you believe god is loving as per the NT, but in the OT god is not seen as loving is he?
naliakbar 2 years ago
as for your faith, let me ask you do you believe that Jesus is the Father? and taht the Father is Jesus? No you dont, you believe they are part of a god head, therefore it is not monothiestic, because you are saying god the father needs help from his son jesus who are both god.
i said partners of god, and you said it yourself, they are THREE PERSONS, which is exactly what i am saying. as for yoru example of marriage, i am not my wife she is not me either.
naliakbar 2 years ago
so it is clear that if that is your example you definatly admit what i just said.
Islam does not contradict the sacrifice, as i said we are going to be doing that in a few weeks, and we do not ascribe a creation to being god as you do with jesus.
so no we are not trying to mis understand your faith, it is exactly whe you said. if not tell me taht you believe the father is jesus.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Ali,
It amazes me that Muslims quote Ezekiel as some sort of proof that God has now mysteriously done away with his whole sacrificial system issued in his law.
Ali, have you ever read Ezekiel?
Ezekiel NEVER gets rid of God's law. Ezekiel NEVER does away with sacrifice.
And this is PLAINLY evident if you actually READ his book because he continues to talk about sacrifice THROUGHOUT; even down to the description for the altar OF SACRIFICE in chapter 43:13-16.
And ON WHICH he states (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
Hey Joe, we're onat the same time my friend..lol
MHMA23 2 years ago
43:22 "On the second day you are to offer a male goat without defect FOR A SIN OFFERING, and the altar is to be purified as it was purified with the bull."
Now, how is it Ali, that Ezekiel who has gotten rid of sacrifice for sin in your mind has now stated in chapter 43 that they are to offer a WHAT? A SIN OFFERING.
You know how that is? Because the prophet of God never contradicts THE LAW OF GOD. Ezekiel DOES NOT do away with sacrifice - EVER.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Oh... and when have I EVER said that the Old testament God is not loving? Jesus talks about Hell more than any other character in all of scripture.
The idea that the Old Testament God is mean and angry but the New Testament God is all lovey dovey is a bunch of hooey.
God is unchanging. Salvation is unchanging.
Sacrifice is REQUIRED for the remission of sin. THAT is God's law and it is unchanging. God is not any less or any more loving. God is, was, and always shall be.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
The Law of God... I don't think that we as humans should talk about the law of God... we can talk about the law of mankind... which God has set outlines for us to follow.. but his law...It is outside our limits to even comprehend it.
MHMA23 2 years ago
The law of God, the law of manking which God outlines, call it what you wish.
The Jews call it the law of God. So, I refer to it as such.
What I do know is that the law given to mankind which God expects us to uphold requires sacrifice for the remission of sins and he says it blatantly.
The prophets repeat it and assert that the Messiah would become a guilt offering for mankind and then Jesus himself asserts the same thing.
It is consistent from beginning to end. And it is that the (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
religion of Islam contradicts.
That the law requires sacrifice is plainly evident which is why Ali attempts to argue that Ezekiel does away with God's law.
Ali realizes that if God's law states that it is required that unless God has issued a change (Which he does not) then that law must stand. Thus, he tries to find the change of plans in God's word because Islam teaches no need for atonement.
As I have demonstrated rather thoroughly, Ezekiel did not reverse the law of God.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Joe, no one is disputing the sacrifice is still required, however the wage of sin is not death if someone repents for it. and the sacrifice is not for the blood or meat but for the piety of the person to take the best they have and give it for the sake of god. and as such. But a sacrifice is not the only thing that wipes away the sin, it is the person's abstainance from the sin that causes them to be forgiven, as a muslim this is what we are taught
naliakbar 2 years ago
it is not how much salaat we do but rather it is how pious we were in performance of it. so again the verse in ezekiel makes it clear that you dont need the sacrifice, because now lets tlak realisticly we are not all rich, so basically what you are saying is a poor person has no hope of salvation, because he cannot afford an animal that would be an unjust god, if peopel can afford it then it is manditory on them, if the cant then simply repenting and refraining will do. to me that is just!
naliakbar 2 years ago
And NO Ali, teh verse in Ezekiel DOES NOT negate the requirement of the law. As I have already demonstrated, Ezekiel himself gives the designs for building the ALTAR OF SACRIFICE and he himself calls for the sacrifice for sin.
So you argument has absolutely no merit. You cannot say that the prophet in one breath gets rid of the requirement and have him in the very next telling you how to build the altar to do it on and calling for sacrifice for sin.
That is an utterly false argument.
jorsak 2 years ago
False. That is NOT what God's law states.
"For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life." - Leviticus 17:11
"And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." - Hebrews 9:22
God's law is unchanging Ali. Without shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sin.
(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
and OF COURSE a genuine repentance REQUIRES a "TURNING AWAY FROM" sin.
If there is no turning away from, then there is no genuine repentance. But what you are saying and what Islam is saying is that there is no need to sacrifice if you repent and THAT is where the major problem is.
You cannot have one without the other. Genuine repentance requires turning away AND Sacrifice. The absence of either negates the whole.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
I really don't know why you 2 now keep digging holes for one another rather than accept the fact that both of you have belife and faith...and belive in the Ones of God...
Joe muslims are not satan worshipers, and just because you don't agree with what they believe in that means that thier belief is wrong.
salam
MHMA23 2 years ago
By the way... I'm glad I made you laugh earlier. That WAS the intent. :-) Course I wish you would change as I believe Islam leads to eternal separation from God but that wasn't the point of my jest and I'm glad you caught that. :-)
I certainly don't believe that Muslims are Satan worshipers. As I have said on MANY occasions and will continue to do so, In practice we have FAR MORE in COMMON than naught.
When I assert that Satan deceived Mohamed it was not to say that he consequently (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
became a Satan worshiper. Perhaps there are Christians who say such a thing but I do not believe that nor would I assert it.
I believe simply that Satan gave Mohamed all the feel of righteousness without the very means, the ONE thing, by which mankind can truly attain it - namely the cross.
Salaam and blessings on you and yours friend,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
But Joe you cannot say that Satan decieved Muhammed(Pbuh) and expect that I will agree with you ...or will consider anything you say !..:) cause I wont...
MHMA23 2 years ago
and yet again I will say to you Satan has no righteousness to give...its not in him to even try to..
blessings to you to ..
MHMA23 2 years ago
Clarification:
I didn't say that Satan was righteousness or had righteousness to give.
I said he gave Mohamed all the FEEL of righteousness but denied him the one thing that could allow him to actually attain it - the cross.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Well of course I wouldn't expect that.
Thus the painstaking effort to demonstrate that God's law, his prophets, and the Messiah all disagree with what Islam teaches - specifically that sacrifice is required for the remission of sin.
I have shown that his law requires it, his prophets speak of it and that the messiah became it.
If Islam contradicts all that, then is it not a support for the argument that Mohamed was deceived by Satan?
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Joe,
answer a simple question, if a person who is poor commits a sin, what is he to do for the god you ascribe to pre jesus? is that poor person to go and steal the animal of the neighbor to sacrifice it to god for repentance?
see i believe in a just god, and justice says that if a person can afford it then he does that, if not then simply the bare minimum would be repentance alone. but tell me where is the justice for the poor person to get forgiven pre jesus.
naliakbar 2 years ago 6
Ali, the law has all sorts of means by which the poor can bring a lesser sacrifice - doves, even wheat grain.
But let us be clear that sacrifice was required.
Furthermore, as I have stated to you on MANY occasions, please study Yom Kippur - the Holiest holy day for the Jews which is "The Day of Atonement."
It is the day when the HIGH PRIEST offers sacrifice for the sins of the people - a goat. That goat's blood was sprinkled on the altar in the holy of holies and in the meeting place (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
and this is specifically detailed in Leviticus 16:15-16.
Jesus performed this role but he did so PERFECTLY because he did not offer the blood of lambs but his very own.
This is plainly stated in Hebrews 9
11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
The law requires that the high priest offer a sacrifice for the sins of all the Jews. Read up on it, it really is to much to detail here.
Jesus fulfilled that role of high priest and offered the PERFECT sacrifice for sin, once for all.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
O.T:
Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, & not sacrifice; & the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
N.T:
Luk e18:13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
*14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God.
*1Sa 15:22 To obey is better than sacrifice, & to heed is better than the fat of rams.
COMMENT: This is what you need, Ali!
johndeweb 2 years ago
@naliakbar If the person was poor, they were allowed to bring "two small pigeons", instead of the regular larger animal (a calf from memory but Im unsure of which animal exactly). This is exactly what Jesus' family did when presenting him at 8 days old, embodying the poverty and humility of Jesus Christ.
That is what a family did if they were poor, and in the presence of true repentance, God would never leave a family without the means for repentance.
imacheese1 1 year ago
Joe, I think from my understanding to christianity that you don't believe in 3 persons but oneGOD, but no matter how you try and explain it you yourself become unsure of how to explain it. and thats the point that God has explained in CLEAR words in the Quran to christians and muslims about Jesus(pbuh). but anyways switching is not something i intend to do as I am following all Gods messengers and prophets, and faith... that ends in our time by Prophet Muhammed(pbuh). you make melaugh man:)
MHMA23 2 years ago
MHMA23, I am not unsure on how to explain it at all. Nor have I EVER changed how I explain it.
I explain it the way God explains it.
Husband and wife are ONE (Echad) according to God (Genesis 2:24) and he reaffirms this in the new testament (Matthew 19:6).
God uses the same term to describe husband and wife (Echad) as he uses to describe himself.
Husband is Fully married. Wife is fully married. Husband is NOT the wife nor wife the husband. If Either of the two were not present (Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
there would be no marriage. Are there TWO marriages? No. There is ONE marriage in two persons who are BOTH FULLY married.
Two persons in one marriage.
Just the same with God - three persons in one God.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit each FULLY GOD. Are there three Gods then? No. There is ONE God.
I am not confused. I do not have an issue explaining it and it is completely logical to me.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
PS. Muslims such as Ali CONTINUALLY try to tell me that I believe in 3 Gods. It is disrespectful and to be perfectly honest is breaking command #9 by bearing false witness against me and all other Christians by asserting a falsehood.
It gets very old and I grow weary of refuting that same comment falsely asserted repeatedly.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago