Re: The Blasphemy Challenge: J.P. Holding Responds

[Mectrixctic]

@ForBibletruth

Well there were a lot of Jews back in Jesus time claiming to be the Messiah, so it's possible that one of them would have gotten lucky.

watch?v=M4PeqKOhTTw

However, there no records in Palestine of a man named Yeshua who was crucified.

[Alhambrattp]

Christian belief that jesus died and was resurrected 3 days later is just what the christian writers copied from Horus 3000 B.C and every other messiah with the exact same life storey as jesus....if he existed at all.

[branchingvine]

I'll send you a photo of jesus flesh and blood body raising to sit at the right hand of God....Just let me get a photoshop program first...LOL

[ForBibletruth]

@branchingvine, Yes, the real photo may be on file at the Hawaii Health Department.

[BloodOfRayne]

Hang on! So Jesus didn't raise from the dead? There was a Jesus or there wasn't a Jesus? What exactly do you believe? Are you a Christian? I'm scratching my head here! O.o.

[ForBibletruth]

@BloodOfRayne, No, Jesus was not a historical person. Please watch my series "Proof of Jesus?", in which I go over all the historical "proof" that the Church offers, and you can see for yourself that there is NO proof. The Gospels are allegories that teach spiritual truths-they are NOT history books and they are NOT eyewitness accounts-the Church doesn't even know who wrote them.

[BloodOfRayne]

@ForBibletruth Okay, I get that but what I'm asking is: was there a man called Jesus who existed at all? If not... then... what exactly in the bible IS true? I will watch your videos but I don't really have time at the moment so I guess for now I'm just looking for a quick answer from you. To put it another way, what to you is ultimate truth?

[ForBibletruth]

@BloodOfRayne, It is doubtful that there was a man, upon whom the Jesus character is based. We are the offspring of our creator, and he resides in each one of us.

[JonW81]

Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then the Jews said, It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days? But He was speaking of the temple of His body. Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

John 2:19-21

Temple=His body. Destroyed, raised up=Bodily resurrection.

[ForBibletruth]

John 2:22 "...and they believed the scripture"

John 20:9 "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead."

What scripture states that the Messiah will be raised from the dead on the third day? What scripture did they believe? How could they remember something that the Gospel clearly states they didn't know yet? And most importantly, you don't know it -yet you still try to teach it as fact.

[JonW81]

Peter preaches of it in Acts 2:22-29, referring to Psalm 16:10. Paul in Acts 13:29-36 refers to the same verse. They say that the Holy One who will not see corruption could not be David because he had been long dead, which would mean that this refers to bodily corruption and bodily resurrection. If you're looking for an Old Testament verse that specifically refers to three days, I'd have to study first and see. In the meantime, see Psalm 16:10 regarding the Messiah being raised from death.

[ForBibletruth]

Nice try, but the word translated as "Holy One" is châsîyd, and only means a pious person. The only reason it is capitalized is because of bias translators, trying to force fit the passage to Jesus. What is stated in the verse can be applied to all good persons. It isn't talking about the Messiah anymore than Job was talking about the Messiah, in Job 14:14. The same word is used 32 times in the OT, but only in Psalm 16:10 is it claimed to mean the Messiah.

[ForBibletruth]

Might I suggest, that instead of trying to covince others to believe as you do, that you actually look at the lack of proof you have. Isn't rather foolish to spend your life hoping that something is true, rather than taking the time investigate. You just might find out that you have spent a terrible amount of time spreading a lie. Please see my series-Proof of Jesus? and When was Jesus born?

[nietzschescode]

wow that man makes me speachless with his videos (and the others he made)...he believes exactly what i believe...and teaches more things that i haven't seen or understood yet. those people should raise more often and denonce christianity's idolatry and delusions and reanonce the existence of the true god!!! awesome!!!

[a5of20borg1]

Christainity is a false religion. I had reseach last year about claims that Jesus Christ never existed. It is true that the gosples are just as true as Harry Potter! I now believe in a simular religion as the Jedi Knights. The Force. don't need any old books for nor any massah. To many problems with state created religion only to enslave you and your mind. But I do agree with your video about your spirituality. The Force has no immage!

[ForBibletruth]

Yes, that is an excellant analogy. God is the Force. Act 17:27-28 "That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being;"

[kingmike40]

I might believe that jesus came back from the dead if you can show proof that he existed in the first place.

[trifelgeputinage]

Thanks fgor that, it's good to hear someone acknowledge the mythical/spiritual status of Jsus from a spiritual perspective. I am still unable to pinpoint the exact relationship between the old and New Testaments ie Judaism and Christianity - except that there was certainly was a Jewish/Gnostic fusion that was hijacked by the ,Jesus was a real man' faction and the rest is (a rather horrible and oppressive) history. It's time these Christian Apologists grew up.

[patrolg]

Very good. Rev 1. Jesus Christ is the first born of the dead. Read this with the mind. It is a fictitious personification without life that people gave power to and it seems to live. It was mass created by thaughts from twisted scriptural denotation. Such 'creation' has been demonstrated in the university of Toronto and manifested all the signs and qualities given. Let's read the bible in connotation and worship God.

[Cliner97]

Ask a believing orthodox Jew why, if true, he was nailed to a post( it was NOT a 'cross'-another pagan symbol which the Romans mnost certainly and PROVEABLY did NOT use). It was done so(by God's will) because he, a man, claimed God's throne for himself, JUST AS SATAN also did. Any Christian who claims to believe in the same God who supposedly inspired by his word, the OT, must then also realize that to worship a man(claiming to be god) is nothing short of idol worship. Period.

[saywhen01]

LOL, J.P. Holding, whose real name is actually Robert Turkel, is a complete idiot. He reflects christianity perfectly. He is as mean, nasty and vulgar as they come. What a jerk.

[2crucial3]

1 Corinthians 15:12-20

....hmmm I do like verse 20 in particular:

"But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead..."

[ForBibletruth]

Yes, but, the word used in each verse is Strong's number G 1453 (ergero) which means to arise, to awake, to resuscitate; It does not mean to resurrect. If God wanted people to believe that Jesus was resurrected, why did he not use the word for resurrection?

[BSintolerant]

Good points. I't is unfair that chritians act like there is nothing in the bibles contents that a person could POSSIBLY be skeptical about. Dishonesty at it's best. Of course the gospels are not eyewitness accounts. They read like a fictional narrative. Who witnessed Joseph dream, or mary's . I wonder who witnessed her magical conception? I'm not buying it. PLus the last chapters of each are barely reconcilable. Thx for the vid.

[AmericanApostate]

Jesus was mentioned by some historians after his death, but there was nothing remarkable about their accounts. He was treated as any local, rural religious leader was, which proves he wasn't anything special.

[Bigone5555J]

Hey Bibletruth, I was on J.P.Holding page, and he put up a comment saying that you agreed with him. I told him he was a liar, and that you would not have done that. He then came back and said that he was mistaken, and that you were an atheist. Now the whole exchange is gone. Guess this guy wanted to cover his tracks.

[ForBibletruth]

Yes, Thank you. I saw the lengthy exchange. I responded with a comment of my own, which he never posted. It is clear to me that he chose to use insults and character assassination as his first weapons of choice rather than scripture. As anyone can plainly see from his remarks here, he chose to ignore most of what I stated in the video, and made clearly false statements about the Bible.

[jcr4runner]

The Bible doesn't teach a separation between the spiritual and the physical. The physical is not evil. Paul is writing to correct the false dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual.

The word Paul uses is "natural" bodies. Natural means able to be corrupted by sin. It's the body subject to the law of sin and death.

Jesus, was without sin, was not subject to corruption. Paul says that if there is no resurrection body of Jesus -- a literal physical body -- then there is no resurrection.

[ForBibletruth]

Jesus said Joh 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Yet you say "the Bible doesn't teach a separation between the spiritual and the physical."

[ForBibletruth]

Paul says in 1Cor 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men...". If Jesus had a flesh and blood body then he had a natural body which was subject to corruption. No where in Corinthians does Paul state that Jesus was resurrected (Greek word-anastasis-Stong's number G386). No where in the Bible does Paul or anyone else state "if there is no resurrection body of Jesus -- a literal physical body -- then there is no resurrection." as you have claimed

[ForBibletruth]

You of course realise that you will have to prove that Jesus existed before you argue that he was resurrected. I can also see by your last statement about Paul, that you have no understanding of what Paul was saying in 1Corinthians about the resurrection.

[BSintolerant]

How could he be without sin? If he was human, then he sinned or he was not human..period. Men have wet dreams you know. I know this sounds gross. But in the OT there were told that man would be unclean for period for this. Maybe jesus was a eunech?

[jcr4runner]

Your mistake is the reading of "flesh and blood" -- the "flesh" in New Testament theology is not flesh and blood. The correct translation is the "natural body " or the "corruptible body" -- Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 15 that our bodies are subject to sin and corruption. But this is not the resurrection body.

[ForBibletruth]

1Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Paul is talking about literal flesh and blood in this verse. A natural body can not be an heir to the kingdom of God. Flesh and blood are not theological terms. You have side tracked the issue. Jesus still ate and drank-his body required food both before and after the crucifixion. A natural or physical body can not sit next to God in heaven. God is a spirit

[jcr4runner]

I mistook what you were saying at first. Are you saying you beleivve in NO resurrection? Or merely just a mystical (SIC: spiritual) resurrection?

[ForBibletruth]

What I stated is that the Gospels never say that Jesus was resurrected. There is one and only one Greek word (anastasis-Strong's number G386)meaning resurrection in the four Gospels. Jesus never said he would be resurrected and no one in the Gospels ever said he was resurrected. No where in the Old Testament does it state that the Messiah would be raised from the dead on the third day.

[wilkins6029]

Awesome.

[tenneral]

Another great video - your command of the material and the references is most impressive. And your argument is, in my view, irrefutable.

[nailo1]

5 star pure ownage