First test of our biogas converted electric generator.

[prayersfarmnigeria]

I've heard that compressing it to 2500 psi (or 2800), it liquefies and can be stored in a pressured small fuel cell. Much handier that a giant tank or balloon, but now you need a source of power to run a special "safe" compressor that will reach 2500 psi. Trade off?

[prayersfarmnigeria]

Cooking or heating is the most practical use for the gas. Using it for running a generator seems to be too expensive in the long run of things in the US. In Nigeria where we are wanting to use it we are hoping to do enough experiments to finally learn how to economically use it in a small scale. Large scale seems to make or save some $. The best free medium for filtration, and looks like what marketed professionally, is metal band saw cuttings from a local machine shop. FREE.

[junrkp]

it is safe if i compressed the biogas?...

[Sheilanagig]

@bryncomeaux we have to import lumber here because we don't have very many trees. I was thinking of going with straw bales, which are cheaper still and easier to work with, and best of all available in abundance where I am located in the great plains.

[Sheilanagig]

I've heard that the Chinese scrub their biogas by percolating it through water tubes. Then they compress it and use it to run engines. I think they still use diesel to start the engines, but after that it's compressed biogass.

I'm just starting to learn about biogas. I live in a rural area in the midwestern US, and we have a severe housing shortage. We'd be able to build more in the rural areas if there were a plus to it, like small communities producing their own biogas energy.

[bryncomeaux]

@Sheilanagig THE STACKED LUMBER WALL IS BASICALLY A LOG CABIN THAT USED 2X4 OR 2X6 DIMENSIONAL LUMBER LAID FLAT IN SUCSESSION AND NAILED TO EACH OTHER. THE RESULT IS A WALL WHERE YOU CAN ONLY SEE THE EDGE OF THE 2X4. IT HAS MANY ADVANTAGES INCLUDING LOW MAINTENANCE AND LOW COST. IT IS EASY TO BUILD AND VERY DURABLE. THE FLOR ANC CEILING ARE MADE THE SAME WAY. A FLAT ROOF OF EPDM IS ENVISIONED. BECAUSE THE WALL ARE A BUILT UIP BEAM THE SPAN BETWEEN POST IS 8-12 FEET.

[bryncomeaux]

@bryncomeaux THE WALLS FLOOR AND CEILING OF A 24'X24' HOUSE COST ABOUT $3700.00 US OR $8 A SQUARE FOOT. IT RESIST HIGH WIND. AND OTHER DISATERS LIKE FLOOD. I DESIGNED THE POST OF 2X10 PRESSUR TREATED LAYERED 4 BOARDS WIDE INTO AN BASIC L SHAPE AT THE CORNERS THE 2X4 REST ON THE TWO INNER BOARDS BUT THE 2 OUTER BOARDS EXTEND ALL THE WAY UP THE INNER AND ALSO THE OUTER WALL AND ARE THROUGH BOLTED ALL TOGETER. THIS AND A SIX FOOT DEPTH CREATE MASSIVE LATERAL BRACING. N MOTHER EARTH NEWS

[KC08RAS]

Water wash the gas to remove co2 thus less acidic

[prayersfarmnigeria]

If anyone knows of a cheap way, not only to clean the acid out of the gas, but to know when the bio gas is indeed clean, and when the neutralizer is no longer working and time to replace it, let me know. Prayersfarm dot organization.

[tculhane]

@prayersfarmnigeria Our Isreali colleague Yair Teller, building biogas systems with Palestinian colleagues of ours, bought an in-line canister from China that simply has beads of iron it to remove the H2SO4. I've also been told to use steel wool also; don't know if it removes all; we've never run the engines long enough to see how much damage might be done. I appreciate your experience with diesel gens!

[3DCGdesign]

@prayersfarmnigeria just found this nice vid: aju_kNKNtXw "How to make a biogas filter" which is simple and clear and cheap. However, I don't know how to know for sure that it is "indeed" clean. The idea is simply to put in something that will rust that has a lot of surface area, forcing the gas to rust that thing instead of the engine parts. The baking soda in the water bubbler attempts to clean the rest missed by the wool. Replace filter parts as needed. I don't know more.

[3DCGdesign]

@prayersfarmnigeria I also read about a "precipitation" method of cleaning the gas that requires, believe it or not, that you force are to bubble up through the digester itself, oxidizing the iron oxide. Procede with caution, and do careful study before attempting this method, as it can lead to explosion if adding air incorrectly or too much.

[prayersfarmnigeria]

(continued from previous comment) If you are determined to generate electricity, as we are, you need to use the bio gas to supplement a diesel generator. You still have to neutralize the acid, but you don't have the endless problems you will with a gas engine. You send the supply line (after the bio gas has been cleaned) into the air intake. The governor will automatically (if it isn't a fixed 1800 rpm type) throttle down and you use less diesel. Cleaning it is still the problem!

[prayersfarmnigeria]

I didn't see any comment about this, so I'll add one. You will destroy your engine quickly if you don't neutralize the acid rich bio gas. We are doing a project in Africa and this is the big problem. The cost for the equipment to test the bio gas to make sure it is "good" gas is one thing, then the big cost of cleaning it from acid really becomes cost prohibitive. In other words you might as well buy gasoline. The best you can do is to cook or heat with it. (continued)

[AlternativePowerMan]

Interesting stuff!! Any comments on using lawn grass clippings as the feedstock to the digester? Any ideas as to the volume of biogass grass will make?

[grrrhahaohyeah]

if your running the generator regularily in your system have you considered using the heat from your exhaust as another source of warmth for you mesophyllic bacteria??

[energysteven]

Get rid of the Garretson "pancake" regulator. It's for going from 10 psi down to 11 inches. You barely have any pressure and certainly no vacuum to let the Garretson operate. ( I am making some assumptions here about your equipment :-)

Instead use a 1/4" ball valve or similiar (that's what these propane lawn mover guys are using.

The Garretson is a safety device as much as a regulator. SInce you are baby sitting this, you don't need it. It would help if you could get a gauge for press. or flo

[GTISilverBullet]

Can I ask how many KGs of biomass it takes to produce the 200 litres of methane per day?

[CTOL1]

use a "bubbler" it would act as a back flash preventer and filter as well. A dip tube for incoming gas and enough distance from the water (think vertical rise of hose) prior to entering the engine. very small amounts of water will not damage the engine

Check out the HHO guys that create Hydrogen Oxygen and what they use on the supply line.

Hope that helps

[d3adp001]

instead of the insinkeration can you use a more static load, like multiple 500 watt work lights?

I guess the bottom line is this, how many KWHR per day does the bioreactor make. Is it better used in electrical production, or just for heat.

BTW the engine sounds like maybe some gas pressure regulation is in order to stabilize the fuel delivery. But I dont know if you are regulating or not. Just suggesting.

Great work, I would like very much to get to the bioreactor stuff, but first, solar.

[tculhane]

@d3adp001 Thanks for the tip d3ap, I'll try to test many different loads. The insinkerator issue is germane because we are trying to prove that it is worthwhile running an insinkerator to grind up the food waste despite its energy costs. What I observed today was that to run the gen for about 3 minutes I used about 75 liters of stored gas. My little system stores 200 liters a day, but the systems we build in Africa give us 750 to 1000 liters of gas a day.

[tculhane]

Since we only need to run the insinkerator 3 to 5 minutes daily (which my watt meter says consumes about 16 watt-hrs -- the unit draws 475 watts when grinding, but over the 3 to 5 minutes I don't register over 20 watt hrs total) it seems that consuming 75 to 100 liters of gas (up to half my daily production in my little 200 liter unit in Germany, but only 1/10 of what we produce daily in the tropics) may be well worth it.

[JimboJitsu]

@tculhane depending on your fuel source in the states you might be able to make money letting yard companies dump their waste? Would grass clippings work for biogass? Or you could sell the idea to landscape companies and they could produce their own electricity and save money doing it... just a weird thought.

[tculhane]

@d3adp001 I would also say that I think for small scale use using the gas for cooking fuel is more efficient. But our neighbor, Imbrahm, has a company in Kettwig Germany that uses all the cafeteria and market waste and produces 4.5 million KwH per year for sale to the municipality, and he then sells 3.5 million KwH equivalent of hot water (70 C) to a local spa at a profit. That hot water he gets with heat exchangers from the waste heat of his massive generators. In his case he says "get both".

[tculhane]

@d3adp001 Also, yes, I need gas pressure regulation. I'm using 6 bricks on top of a tottering gas collector to provide the pressure. Thats about 20 kg. I've designed a different system that uses water pressure to force the gas out and is much more efficient but can't build it on our porch. We did build that system in California though. Works much better. But at home we do what we can, right?

[d3adp001]

@tculhane your doing it, so yes indeed do what ya can with what ya have, and work towards what ya want.

One idea, toss some more wieght on top, and use a 1/2psi barbque pressure regulator. Maybe?

[tom3280]

hello from Germany

i have two ideas maybee you can test a airfilter from car with paperfilter

and you can maybee use a car compressor 12 V for some more pressure, only a few suggestions.

sorry for my bad english.

best regards Tom

[tom3280]

@ tculhane

hello from Germany

i have two ideas maybee you can test a airfilter from car with paperfilter

and you can maybee use a car compressor 12 V for some more pressure, only a few suggestions.

sorry for my bad english.

best regards Tom

[JimboJitsu]

Gasoline contains water and if you watch it will drip out of tail pipes so I would guess you do not need to remove moisture from biogas. is the moisture from line condensation and is noticeable in the cotton??

Very cool video, I have a suggestion of moving your camera next time... I watched you do nothing for about 2 minutes while the generator hid your actions from view... Love what you are doing and hope to see lots more!!!

[tculhane]

@JimboJitsu Right you are on the camera score Jimbo; I wasn't sure what would happen so I just put the camera where it wouldn't fall and tried to start up the engine, wanting to capture the first attempt no matter what. I really posted this for archival purposes in case I need it when I get to Nigeria . But I make everything public for the heck of it, cause you never know .Now when I fix the pull cord and do it again, my wife will film and we will make sure people can see whats going on.

[JimboJitsu]

@tculhane

just a tip from a fellow video maker... just happy you are sharing this, it is exactly the information I need for the Ecovillage project!

[tculhane]

@JimboJitsu Thanks for the note about the water-- no I didn't notice any build up on the cotton. The moisture is never a problem when it is running. What I have trouble with is starting the thing (which is why I ripped the pull cord here and in Cairo Egypt when we tried this). I regapped the spark plug to .5 mm (.02") and I start with the throttle closed, but what you can't see me doing in those 2 minutes is pressing the primer button on the regulator.

[JimboJitsu]

@tculhane depending on where the cord broke you should be able to tie a not at the end and re thread it?

It defenitly sounded like carburator problems you might be right on the amount of pressure on the biogas tank, have a couple kids sit on it next time... kidding... but some extra weight might help if you are having to prime the pump yourself. I would wonder if biogas might be the same as propane or natural gas which are both used under pressure...??? thanks for sharing!

[randacnam7321]

@JimboJitsu The water is the result of the oxidation of the hydrogen in the gasoline, not something that was originally in the fuel.

[tculhane]

If the pull cord hadn't snapped I could have run my experiment of how much gas it takes to run the insinkerator. Now I will have to wait a few days... but stay tuned.