Tomislavv, wasn't around 750'000 (not including IDP in Israel-controlled territory of Palestinian origin) Palestinians either expelled or forced to fly their home? Wasn't and isn't these refugees not allowed back to their homes? Wasn't theirs homes and properties confiscated?
Tell me about the Gaza massacre in 2006or the one in 2009. Or about Shabra and Shatila. Or why not about the 450-550 Arab towns which was depopulated during the nakba...
MalmoH For any of my claimes I only used international not biast sources like wikipedia.I strongly dispute the claime that ANY rape of Arab woman happened by Jewish soldiers.Please read wikipedia artickle about 1947-8 civil war.
Considering some 600 000 Arabs who left Israel after the establishment of state the vast majority like tzfat Arabs left because they were forced to do this by their own leaders will and a minority like Al Lyda and Ramele arabs were forced to leave against ther will.
Benny Morris and Walid Khalidi have reported about Arab womans who got raped by Jewish soldiers. I give you one source again: Morris 2008, pp. 404-406
Morris, Khalidi etc. has already proved that only some villages was encouraged by their own leaders to flee.
MalmoH You misundersood me. I newer said that wikipedia is biast.I advacied wikipedia use because itsa non Arab and non Israeli site and therfore its the most likely site to be neutral about the conflict.With wikipedia I can prove all the roots of the conflicts,demographyc situation in the land of Israel as well as the true nature of conflict. Walid Khalidi is a palestinian politian and not an objective neutral scientist
As I said the 1948 happened in the land and around it.The Nazi mufti as a leader of Palestinian people organized many massacres of Jewish civilians in the land and caried out the Holocaust of Serbian Jews in Bosnia.From 1948 a huge pogrom campain happened against Jews from Arab countries which resulted in 1000 000 Jews being robed of their property and land 37 000 square miles(4time the sieze of Israel) and their homes
"There is a deep problem in Islam. It's a world whose values are different. A world in which human life doesn't have the same value as it does in the West, in which freedom, democracy, openness and creativity are alien. He also says "Revenge plays a central part in the Arab tribal culture. Therefore, the people we are fighting and the society that sends them have no moral inhibitions.
"We have to heal the Palestinians. But in the meantime, until the medicine is found, they have to be contained so that they will not succeed in murdering people. Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another
If you dont like this wievs as I dont like them please dont quote or beleive Benny Moris
I cited Benny Morris and you said that: " For any of my claimes I only used international not biast sources like wikipedia.I strongly dispute the claime that ANY rape of Arab woman happened by Jewish soldiers.Please read wikipedia artickle about 1947-8 civil war."
The truth is, according to serveral historian as Benny Moris, that rapes of Arab womans did occur!
What are you trying to show with the quotes? That the Palestinian exodus didn't even occur? That it was right to confiscate the Palestinian refugeess' land and property? To depopulate around 500 villages? To never accept the refugees back - to their own home?
Also remember, Morris thoughts is not "facts". I mean, Morris is anti-Islam and have said that Jewish forces under the nakba should "completed the job" (he means all Palestinians should have been expelled or encourage them to flee).
But the facts he has documented is not controversial - only his thoughts is!
The person whose toughts are wrong his ''facts are allso wrong.Benny Morris is not a good source to be quoted for any purpos(neighter his toughts nor his ''facts'')
For over a thousand years after Joshua, Safed was a Jewish city of refuge; one of the Levitical cities of Israel, and a center of Jewish commerce during the days of King David, who visited here, and King Solomon.
All the way through the Babylonian and Roman exiles, Jews have always lived in Safed and it became a center of Learning and then Kabbala during the 2nd and 15th centuries C.E.
Despite the temporary Muslim and Crusader periods in a long, expansive history, Tsfat remains a Jewish home.
Tzfat was allways Jewish city It was built by Jews In 1555, the Jewish population was 8,000-10,000. By the end of the century, it had grown to 20,000 or 30,000. In 1930's large part of Jews were forced out from city only 2 000 remained till Tzfat liberation in may 1948.
Many Jews in Safad died because of natural catastrophes (Near East earthquake of 1759, Galilee earthquake of 1837).
Indeed, there were some tensions between Arabs and Jews. However, the city was cleared of Arabs in the 40's. It's a fact that Arabs privately owned around 72 % of the land in 1947 while the rest was public land.
The wast majority of Tzfat Arabs were Syrian imigrants who came to the land of Israel in the second half of XIX centurty.They become the majority in the town only in that shorth period.Jews were forced to laeve the city expetially after the massacre of Tzfat Jews in 1929 and thats how with massive Arab imigration Tzfat lost it's Jewish nature for a shorth period before the liberation in 1948
There are no credible sources which can confirm that the "wast majority" of the Palestinians in Safad was actually Syrian immigrants or that Jews was forced to leave Safad during the riots in 1929.
Note that using the "immigrant-argument" becomes very troubled for you because most of the Jews in Safad and Israel are immigrants.
Also read, about the catastrophes which occured in Safad. These catastrophes (such as Near East earthquake of 1759 and Galilee earthquake of 1837) harmed both Jews and Palestinans.
Do you know that 12'000-15'000 Palestinians fled from Safad under the nabka? Their land was confiscated and the refugees was never allowed to come back. Do you support the refugees right to return?
MalmoH Do you know that ower 1 000 000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries? There land 37 000 square miles(4 time the sieze of Israel) was confiscated Their property woth today more than 300 BILION of USD was robbed(60 times as much as Arabs lost in Israel).Thousands of Jews were slaughtered between 1945 and 1948.About this tragedy which was the BIGEST expultion of one nation after WWII I will send you a video
There were Jews who was expelled and fled from the Arab countries. However, the Palestinians is not responsible for what Arab regimes did to the Jews after the Palestinians was expelled or fled.
Read: "Isn't it a fair 'population exchange' between Palestinian refugees and Jewish refugees from many Arab countries?" at "Palestineremembered".
The biggest expulsion (in numbers) was not the one of Jews or Palestinians. Around 12-14 million Germans was expelled after WW II.
In the land of Israel between autum 1947 and may 1948 the Arab Liberation Army which was organized by Nazi mufti (Husseini a personal friend of Hitler organized SS Handzar division in WWII which killed thousands of Jews under the supervision and comand of Palestinian leader) killed thousands of people all ower country and culminated in joint invasion of Israel by all major Arab countries and sistematic pogroms of middle eastern Jews
Husayni was forced into exile in 1937 so you cant claim that he was an Palestinian leader during the time of SS Handzar (which was created in 1943).
It's a fact that the Arab countries went to war with Israel after Palestinians was massacred and after 300'000-4000'000 Palestinians was expelled or fled.
Wikipedia isn't an credible source. If you read at Passia's website (they cite UN) Palestinians constituted 62% of the population in Jerusalem in 1946 (and an overwhelmingly majority in the whole of historic Palestine) and the Palestinians owned 84% of the land? in Jerusalem in 1945.
MalmoH even Hamas sites admites that jerusalem hade Jewish majority for more than one century.The Arab majoritycould only be writen for Jerusalem district which included many arab towns north and south of Jerusalem.
Yes, I'm talking about the Jerusalem District. Palestinians constituted a great majority in all of Palestine before the exodus and the mass immigration of Jews to historic Palestine and owned most of the land in 1945.
Source: A Survey of Palestine prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566 (can be found at Palestineremembered's website).
.al-Husayni was elected to the presidency of the National Palestinian Council in 1948 and He (Nazi Mufty) was de facto and de jure the first leader of palestinan Arabs
Ahmed Hilmi Abdul Baqi led NPC then Husayni was elected for a moment but Jordan never accepted it and later annexed the whole of West Bank. Egypt forcefully transfered Husayni to Cario.
Many Zionish and Jewish leader also commited massacres and other war- and human right abuses. Menachim Begin was a member of Irgun, Yosef Avni (took part in the Deir Yassin massacre), Eitan Livni etc.
December 1947 Small kibbutzim were subjected to attacks Gvulot, Ben-Shemen, Holon, Safed, Bat Yam and Kfar Yavetz. Sixty-two Jews were murdered by Arabs around Palestine.
December 30, 1947 39 Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifas oil refinery
January 16, 1948 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion
February 22, 1948 44 Jews were murdered in a bombing on Jerusalems Rehov Ben-Yehuda
February 29, 1948 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine, eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry.
January and February 1948 Rishon Lezion, Yehiam, Mishmar Hayarden, Tirat Zvi, Sde Eliahu, Ein Hanatziv, Magdiel, Mitzpe Hagalil and Maanit were all subjected to attacks. Arab attackers also bombedThe Palestine Post
April 13, 1948 35 Jew were murdered during the Mount Scopus convoy massacre May 15, 1948 127 Jews were massacred
During this timespan(November 29, 1947 to May 15, 1948), a total of 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists and army units which attacked every place of Jewish inhabitation in Palestine. During this time, all Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go about the country in convoys.
"There were few reported cases of rape, and few killings of unarmed civilians perpetrated by Arabs.
Conversely, there were 12-14 recorded cases of rape carried out by Jewish soldiers, and around 800 killings of unarmed civilians and prisoners-of-war, most of them during massacres in captured villages."
Tomislavv, wasn't around 750'000 (not including IDP in Israel-controlled territory of Palestinian origin) Palestinians either expelled or forced to fly their home? Wasn't and isn't these refugees not allowed back to their homes? Wasn't theirs homes and properties confiscated?
Tell me about the Gaza massacre in 2006or the one in 2009. Or about Shabra and Shatila. Or why not about the 450-550 Arab towns which was depopulated during the nakba...
MalmoH 2 years ago
MalmoH For any of my claimes I only used international not biast sources like wikipedia.I strongly dispute the claime that ANY rape of Arab woman happened by Jewish soldiers.Please read wikipedia artickle about 1947-8 civil war.
Considering some 600 000 Arabs who left Israel after the establishment of state the vast majority like tzfat Arabs left because they were forced to do this by their own leaders will and a minority like Al Lyda and Ramele arabs were forced to leave against ther will.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Benny Morris and Walid Khalidi have reported about Arab womans who got raped by Jewish soldiers. I give you one source again: Morris 2008, pp. 404-406
Morris, Khalidi etc. has already proved that only some villages was encouraged by their own leaders to flee.
(To be continued in next post)
MalmoH 2 years ago
Comment removed
MalmoH 2 years ago
I found it funny how you say that Wikipedia is a "bias source" and the next moment you use it yourelf (you wrote: "(Source for numbers Wikipedia)").
MalmoH 2 years ago
MalmoH You misundersood me. I newer said that wikipedia is biast.I advacied wikipedia use because itsa non Arab and non Israeli site and therfore its the most likely site to be neutral about the conflict.With wikipedia I can prove all the roots of the conflicts,demographyc situation in the land of Israel as well as the true nature of conflict. Walid Khalidi is a palestinian politian and not an objective neutral scientist
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
As I said the 1948 happened in the land and around it.The Nazi mufti as a leader of Palestinian people organized many massacres of Jewish civilians in the land and caried out the Holocaust of Serbian Jews in Bosnia.From 1948 a huge pogrom campain happened against Jews from Arab countries which resulted in 1000 000 Jews being robed of their property and land 37 000 square miles(4time the sieze of Israel) and their homes
(Source for numbers Wikipedia)
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Quotes from Benny Moris part 1
"There is a deep problem in Islam. It's a world whose values are different. A world in which human life doesn't have the same value as it does in the West, in which freedom, democracy, openness and creativity are alien. He also says "Revenge plays a central part in the Arab tribal culture. Therefore, the people we are fighting and the society that sends them have no moral inhibitions.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
quotes from Benny Moris part 2
"We have to heal the Palestinians. But in the meantime, until the medicine is found, they have to be contained so that they will not succeed in murdering people. Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another
If you dont like this wievs as I dont like them please dont quote or beleive Benny Moris
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
I cited Benny Morris and you said that: " For any of my claimes I only used international not biast sources like wikipedia.I strongly dispute the claime that ANY rape of Arab woman happened by Jewish soldiers.Please read wikipedia artickle about 1947-8 civil war."
The truth is, according to serveral historian as Benny Moris, that rapes of Arab womans did occur!
MalmoH 2 years ago
What are you trying to show with the quotes? That the Palestinian exodus didn't even occur? That it was right to confiscate the Palestinian refugeess' land and property? To depopulate around 500 villages? To never accept the refugees back - to their own home?
MalmoH 2 years ago
Also remember, Morris thoughts is not "facts". I mean, Morris is anti-Islam and have said that Jewish forces under the nakba should "completed the job" (he means all Palestinians should have been expelled or encourage them to flee).
But the facts he has documented is not controversial - only his thoughts is!
MalmoH 2 years ago
The person whose toughts are wrong his ''facts are allso wrong.Benny Morris is not a good source to be quoted for any purpos(neighter his toughts nor his ''facts'')
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
That's how you put it! I will regard Benny Morris fact-findings as trustworthy.
MalmoH 2 years ago
Beautiful town. I hope to visit it after its liberated of racism someday, and visit my grandparents house.
osamathegreat 2 years ago
my g-grandparents City ! They Used 2 Live There !
ProudArabian87 3 years ago
For over a thousand years after Joshua, Safed was a Jewish city of refuge; one of the Levitical cities of Israel, and a center of Jewish commerce during the days of King David, who visited here, and King Solomon.
All the way through the Babylonian and Roman exiles, Jews have always lived in Safed and it became a center of Learning and then Kabbala during the 2nd and 15th centuries C.E.
Despite the temporary Muslim and Crusader periods in a long, expansive history, Tsfat remains a Jewish home.
Mclevy36 3 years ago
From PalestineRemembered:
"The Arabs land ownership was 5,344 dunums, Jewish 0 dunums, and public 2,047 dunums."
MalmoH 2 years ago
Tzfat was allways Jewish city It was built by Jews In 1555, the Jewish population was 8,000-10,000. By the end of the century, it had grown to 20,000 or 30,000. In 1930's large part of Jews were forced out from city only 2 000 remained till Tzfat liberation in may 1948.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Comment removed
MalmoH 2 years ago
Many Jews in Safad died because of natural catastrophes (Near East earthquake of 1759, Galilee earthquake of 1837).
Indeed, there were some tensions between Arabs and Jews. However, the city was cleared of Arabs in the 40's. It's a fact that Arabs privately owned around 72 % of the land in 1947 while the rest was public land.
Year Population
1922 5,775
1931 6,894
1945 11,930 (2,400 Jewish)
1948 11,055
Est. Refugees 1998 67,888
(From PalestineRemembered)
MalmoH 2 years ago
The wast majority of Tzfat Arabs were Syrian imigrants who came to the land of Israel in the second half of XIX centurty.They become the majority in the town only in that shorth period.Jews were forced to laeve the city expetially after the massacre of Tzfat Jews in 1929 and thats how with massive Arab imigration Tzfat lost it's Jewish nature for a shorth period before the liberation in 1948
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
There are no credible sources which can confirm that the "wast majority" of the Palestinians in Safad was actually Syrian immigrants or that Jews was forced to leave Safad during the riots in 1929.
Note that using the "immigrant-argument" becomes very troubled for you because most of the Jews in Safad and Israel are immigrants.
MalmoH 2 years ago
Also read, about the catastrophes which occured in Safad. These catastrophes (such as Near East earthquake of 1759 and Galilee earthquake of 1837) harmed both Jews and Palestinans.
Do you know that 12'000-15'000 Palestinians fled from Safad under the nabka? Their land was confiscated and the refugees was never allowed to come back. Do you support the refugees right to return?
MalmoH 2 years ago
MalmoH Do you know that ower 1 000 000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries? There land 37 000 square miles(4 time the sieze of Israel) was confiscated Their property woth today more than 300 BILION of USD was robbed(60 times as much as Arabs lost in Israel).Thousands of Jews were slaughtered between 1945 and 1948.About this tragedy which was the BIGEST expultion of one nation after WWII I will send you a video
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
There were Jews who was expelled and fled from the Arab countries. However, the Palestinians is not responsible for what Arab regimes did to the Jews after the Palestinians was expelled or fled.
Read: "Isn't it a fair 'population exchange' between Palestinian refugees and Jewish refugees from many Arab countries?" at "Palestineremembered".
The biggest expulsion (in numbers) was not the one of Jews or Palestinians. Around 12-14 million Germans was expelled after WW II.
MalmoH 2 years ago
Comment removed
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
In the land of Israel between autum 1947 and may 1948 the Arab Liberation Army which was organized by Nazi mufti (Husseini a personal friend of Hitler organized SS Handzar division in WWII which killed thousands of Jews under the supervision and comand of Palestinian leader) killed thousands of people all ower country and culminated in joint invasion of Israel by all major Arab countries and sistematic pogroms of middle eastern Jews
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Husayni was forced into exile in 1937 so you cant claim that he was an Palestinian leader during the time of SS Handzar (which was created in 1943).
It's a fact that the Arab countries went to war with Israel after Palestinians was massacred and after 300'000-4000'000 Palestinians was expelled or fled.
MalmoH 2 years ago
In 1946 there were two-tird Jewish majority in Jerusalem.If you have any doubts about this govr mi the adress of the site which claime differently
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Arafat allso spent most of his life in exile??(He was born in Egypt) but it doesent prevented him for being a leader of palestinian Arabs
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Haganah and Stern was Jewish terror-groups. Many of the members later joined IDF, the Israeli government and in other Israeli institutions.
MalmoH 2 years ago
Arafat went to exile under a time. However, he never joined Nazi-groups like Husayni. PLO become accepted by the world and they talked with Israel.
MalmoH 2 years ago
While Jerusalem hade a Jewish majority from 1843 (Wikipedia-Jerusalem demography) Tzfat lost it Jewish nature after that period.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Comment removed
MalmoH 2 years ago
Comment removed
MalmoH 2 years ago
Wikipedia isn't an credible source. If you read at Passia's website (they cite UN) Palestinians constituted 62% of the population in Jerusalem in 1946 (and an overwhelmingly majority in the whole of historic Palestine) and the Palestinians owned 84% of the land? in Jerusalem in 1945.
MalmoH 2 years ago
Comment removed
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
MalmoH even Hamas sites admites that jerusalem hade Jewish majority for more than one century.The Arab majoritycould only be writen for Jerusalem district which included many arab towns north and south of Jerusalem.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Yes, I'm talking about the Jerusalem District. Palestinians constituted a great majority in all of Palestine before the exodus and the mass immigration of Jews to historic Palestine and owned most of the land in 1945.
Source: A Survey of Palestine prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566 (can be found at Palestineremembered's website).
MalmoH 2 years ago
.al-Husayni was elected to the presidency of the National Palestinian Council in 1948 and He (Nazi Mufty) was de facto and de jure the first leader of palestinan Arabs
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
Comment removed
MalmoH 2 years ago
Ahmed Hilmi Abdul Baqi led NPC then Husayni was elected for a moment but Jordan never accepted it and later annexed the whole of West Bank. Egypt forcefully transfered Husayni to Cario.
Many Zionish and Jewish leader also commited massacres and other war- and human right abuses. Menachim Begin was a member of Irgun, Yosef Avni (took part in the Deir Yassin massacre), Eitan Livni etc.
MalmoH 2 years ago
December 1947 Small kibbutzim were subjected to attacks Gvulot, Ben-Shemen, Holon, Safed, Bat Yam and Kfar Yavetz. Sixty-two Jews were murdered by Arabs around Palestine.
December 30, 1947 39 Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifas oil refinery
January 16, 1948 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion
February 22, 1948 44 Jews were murdered in a bombing on Jerusalems Rehov Ben-Yehuda
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
February 29, 1948 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine, eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry.
January and February 1948 Rishon Lezion, Yehiam, Mishmar Hayarden, Tirat Zvi, Sde Eliahu, Ein Hanatziv, Magdiel, Mitzpe Hagalil and Maanit were all subjected to attacks. Arab attackers also bombedThe Palestine Post
April 13, 1948 35 Jew were murdered during the Mount Scopus convoy massacre May 15, 1948 127 Jews were massacred
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
During this timespan(November 29, 1947 to May 15, 1948), a total of 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists and army units which attacked every place of Jewish inhabitation in Palestine. During this time, all Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go about the country in convoys.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
i newer justifyed Deir Yassin which was a crime.However there were dosens and dosens of Deir Yassins caried out by Arabs against civilian population.
Tomislavv2 2 years ago
I know that Palestinians and other Arabs were responsible for criminal acts. This is of course disgusting!
However, let us not forget the crimes commited against Arabs, including Palestinians. Benny Morris about the crimes which took place in 1948:
MalmoH 2 years ago
"There were few reported cases of rape, and few killings of unarmed civilians perpetrated by Arabs.
Conversely, there were 12-14 recorded cases of rape carried out by Jewish soldiers, and around 800 killings of unarmed civilians and prisoners-of-war, most of them during massacres in captured villages."
Source: Morris 2008, pp. 404-406
MalmoH 2 years ago
Safed began as a Canaanite city and was conquered without blood by Joshua
Mclevy36 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
SAFAD BELONGS to palestnie you fucking pig noses motherfucking jews terorist assholes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hamdullahanamuslim 3 years ago
safed is arabland
basharranea 3 years ago
During whole history with exception of the period of some 60 years Safed was a Jewish city
Tomislavv2 2 years ago