Yeah...this is where I part company with the Abrahamic religions. I do believe that sex can be harmful, but not for the reasons in these religions. Why can't one kiss an animal...is that not allowed in Islam? If that's considered sexual, then I'd question the person who finds it sexual, not the one who kisses an animal to express love. Btw, we have HUGE evidence that these horrific punishments do not work and are simply tantamount to torture of another based in egotistical judgment.
I heard you say "Hey don't hit as hard". As a mother would you give 100 lashes publicly to your child? I am sorry but all of these violent methods of deterring human actions are just inhumane.Religions created torture and punishment to instill fear. If someone is caught committing adultery the partners can work the problem out or get a divorce. At one time the stigma of adultery was frowned upon. Society changed. The problems created by the act of adultery did not change. Violence NO.
Jews/Christians/Catholics stoned and burnt "Witches" at Stake for Fornification and being a Whore. Spanish Inquistion some "Witches" we sexually assaulted by The Church for being a witch. Majority of torture devices were used to sexually assault the anus, vagina, and penis. It is religion which causes the perversion and majority of pervesion is due to sexual repression. Sexual Repression makes Priests perverted and molest altar boys.
YUSUFALI: Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them:
Read Surah 72's better description of this issue below and my response. Maybe it warrants another vid for clarification. =))
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, just wanted to say that I love these videos, and I'm in a period of studying and reading the Qur'an right now, so these videos are an excellent supplement to the concepts and ideas put forth in it.
@Beatnuk Ahhh. It was exactly this contemplation that brought me to Islam. Honestly, I had a journal that I would ask myself questions and the next day the answer would come to me. I was going through a sort of quickening. Then I had a last question that I couldn't answer---"Why do people do evil things for sheer perversion's sake?" Like hurt a cat? Robbing a bank has a payoff but hurting an animal? What's the payoff? The Quran explained it for me. plus a whole lot more. It never disappoints.=)
"Allowing the beasts to run rampant and unhindered only creates a society of victims and oppressors."
The beast can only manifest where there is a suitable climate for it. In a space where humans are in the likeness of God the beast is dysfunctional and cannot take hold. Agressively going after sinners and forcibly stomping out "evil tendencies" out of people with tools of humilitation and fear is exactly the kind of climate the beast thrives in,
You are focused on the lashing, when you ignore the Message. This is why I do not agree with much of this video.
The reality of Surah 24 lies in Surah 24:19. The original intent was to show the people seeking to slander and cause others harm (namely innocents) are the ones deserving the punishment.
No where is it stated to go after anyone aggressively. To say such a thing when that is not stated nor taught only shows what your heart holds within.
But no matter the message behind it, the fact remains that the lashing part is still right there - and I won't look past it for the sake of what is claimed about the book's authenticity and truth.
The Qur'an calls upon people to be Pure and True in heart and action, this I applaud immensely.
But to put people in public display while being flogged, no matter how light the flogging or no matter the "meaning behind it", is an act of agression.
@Beatnuk Okay, after reading Surah72's comments I have a better sense of all this. Maybe you could read my response to Surah72.
Because in Islam we are not to spy on each other and because you must bring forward 4 witnesses, otherwise you earn a flogging for slander (a serious offense or act of aggression against another which should not go unanswered) it should be really difficult to be found "guilty" unless you are openly having sex which is then an assault on the sensibilities of society.
@Surah72 Ahhh. I never looked at it that way. Because it is nearly impossible to have 4 people witness such an act unless it is openly in the streets or something but it does put the onus on the one who wants to maliciously slander others as they may earn the flogging. And as Allah (swt) has told us not to spy on each other coming up with 4 witnesses is next to impossible unless the act is done so indiscreetly as to upset a normal society. Holland comes close to this. Thx for clarification. =)
@Surah72 i never said stoning was a part of the koran.
oooooooooookay. sounds a lot like magick, to me. do they have to swear under a full moon, or anything?
your perception may be askew. (as far as the "insult, invalid...blah blah blah) you sound like one of those condescending atheists who always regurgitate Someone Elses clever comments and rebuttals.
i hope you learn humility, some day.
i hope tomorrow goes better for you than today went.
This is fighting evil with more evil, it heals nothing. And this perversion of humankind IS a disease to be healed. Emphasis on Healed.
Energetically, what is one doing?
Putting fellow humans in front of others to humiliate them, to BRAND them in such a way in front of others... It's trauma, and when under the influence of trauma one *cannot come to an understanding of the TRUTH*. If the person in fault does not understand then any "punishment" will create subconscious hatred.
Considering how Anastasia talks about the power of human thoughts and feelings - WHAT GOOD DOES TRAUMA DO? It generates hate, fuel for the demons, the disintegration and destruction of life. It's through practices like these the dark forces can exist at all. It's darkness in ritual form.
Flogging a person does not awaken them to the fact that they're at their own source Divine.
It's hard to know oneself when "society" is taking on the role of God as Judge and "punisher" *against you*
- Granted, society is incredibly perverted, but this cultural environment is designed to put barriers between Man and his natural source of understanding. The strongest barrier is the temptation of carnal pleasures, the second is the artificial systems of "morality" and politics - reward and punishment, where humans are subjected to other humans. All of this leads Man away from the condition of INNER FREEDOM, in which truth let's itself be known.
@Beatnuk I hear you on that. Perhaps if a child was not the potential product of this act, it would not be a serious issue but if some people get so far out of line as to promote promiscuity as is done in today's culture---openly having sex like beasts then it needs to be either fought back or deserted. I don't think Muslims can fight it back. They will have to choose to leave it behind to create a new society and then keep that one clean. Then others can come join or create their own.
@brightbite Yes, he had been having extramarital affairs for a long time so it was no longer an intact marriage. After Anastasia, he officially left his wife which he should have probably done a long time ago. Also, after Anastasia, he didn't go with other women. It was as though they were married (unconventionally would be an understatement) but spiritually, yes. It changed his life dramatically and he fathered 2 children with her. BTW, I don't agree w/ everything in the books but almost. =))
There is nothing wrong with sex, if its done with love and compassion, its loveless sex which lack in compassion that brings your energy down. Punishing people for their private intimate life is completely radical, it should be private things, everybody has the right to chose.
@chafut Perhaps that's why you need so many witnesses. It is likely that two people you describe would be sufficiently discreet so as not to call any heat on themselves. Or if done in a state of love, would probably not be afraid to commit to a relationship that is respectful to themselves and society.
Yeah...this is where I part company with the Abrahamic religions. I do believe that sex can be harmful, but not for the reasons in these religions. Why can't one kiss an animal...is that not allowed in Islam? If that's considered sexual, then I'd question the person who finds it sexual, not the one who kisses an animal to express love. Btw, we have HUGE evidence that these horrific punishments do not work and are simply tantamount to torture of another based in egotistical judgment.
tvswnet 9 months ago
I heard you say "Hey don't hit as hard". As a mother would you give 100 lashes publicly to your child? I am sorry but all of these violent methods of deterring human actions are just inhumane.Religions created torture and punishment to instill fear. If someone is caught committing adultery the partners can work the problem out or get a divorce. At one time the stigma of adultery was frowned upon. Society changed. The problems created by the act of adultery did not change. Violence NO.
mcdonald1958 1 year ago
Jews/Christians/Catholics stoned and burnt "Witches" at Stake for Fornification and being a Whore. Spanish Inquistion some "Witches" we sexually assaulted by The Church for being a witch. Majority of torture devices were used to sexually assault the anus, vagina, and penis. It is religion which causes the perversion and majority of pervesion is due to sexual repression. Sexual Repression makes Priests perverted and molest altar boys.
TheStormchaser1 1 year ago
@TheStormchaser1 Good Point.
057.027
YUSUFALI: Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them:
Read Surah 72's better description of this issue below and my response. Maybe it warrants another vid for clarification. =))
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, just wanted to say that I love these videos, and I'm in a period of studying and reading the Qur'an right now, so these videos are an excellent supplement to the concepts and ideas put forth in it.
It has a very strong energy, the image of Islam.
I won't subsscribe to it though,
at the moment I prefer the uncarved block ;)
Peace be with you!
Beatnuk 1 year ago
To heal a perverted society, create a Space of Love.
Beatnuk 1 year ago 2
@Beatnuk
Allowing the beasts to run rampant and unhindered only creates a society of victims and oppressors. Much like we have now.
I do not agree with much of what quantumsolutions states in this video. But I do agree with her:
Evil must be fought. Wrongs must be corrected. Justice must be upheld.
No man or woman is Divine. There is only One who is Divine: Our Creator.
Peace.
Surah72 1 year ago
@Surah72
Creation is the manifested thoughts of the Creator, sparked by immense love and inspiration.
The Creator's thoughts are divine, thus - Everything from the mind of God is divine, because it's a reflection of Him.
"know ye not that the Earth, and all that dwells therein, is but a reflection of the Heavenly Father?" - Jesus
Evil must be fought, yes, but there is only one true way to fight it. This requires contemplation on the true nature of evil.
Beatnuk 1 year ago
@Beatnuk
I disagree.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edward Burke
Peace.
Surah72 1 year ago
@Beatnuk Ahhh. It was exactly this contemplation that brought me to Islam. Honestly, I had a journal that I would ask myself questions and the next day the answer would come to me. I was going through a sort of quickening. Then I had a last question that I couldn't answer---"Why do people do evil things for sheer perversion's sake?" Like hurt a cat? Robbing a bank has a payoff but hurting an animal? What's the payoff? The Quran explained it for me. plus a whole lot more. It never disappoints.=)
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
@Surah72
"Allowing the beasts to run rampant and unhindered only creates a society of victims and oppressors."
The beast can only manifest where there is a suitable climate for it. In a space where humans are in the likeness of God the beast is dysfunctional and cannot take hold. Agressively going after sinners and forcibly stomping out "evil tendencies" out of people with tools of humilitation and fear is exactly the kind of climate the beast thrives in,
Oppressing oppression is hopeless.
Beatnuk 1 year ago
@Beatnuk
You are focused on the lashing, when you ignore the Message. This is why I do not agree with much of this video.
The reality of Surah 24 lies in Surah 24:19. The original intent was to show the people seeking to slander and cause others harm (namely innocents) are the ones deserving the punishment.
No where is it stated to go after anyone aggressively. To say such a thing when that is not stated nor taught only shows what your heart holds within.
Peace.
Surah72 1 year ago
@Surah72
I am not ignoring the message.
But no matter the message behind it, the fact remains that the lashing part is still right there - and I won't look past it for the sake of what is claimed about the book's authenticity and truth.
The Qur'an calls upon people to be Pure and True in heart and action, this I applaud immensely.
But to put people in public display while being flogged, no matter how light the flogging or no matter the "meaning behind it", is an act of agression.
Beatnuk 1 year ago
@Beatnuk Okay, after reading Surah72's comments I have a better sense of all this. Maybe you could read my response to Surah72.
Because in Islam we are not to spy on each other and because you must bring forward 4 witnesses, otherwise you earn a flogging for slander (a serious offense or act of aggression against another which should not go unanswered) it should be really difficult to be found "guilty" unless you are openly having sex which is then an assault on the sensibilities of society.
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
@Surah72 Ahhh. I never looked at it that way. Because it is nearly impossible to have 4 people witness such an act unless it is openly in the streets or something but it does put the onus on the one who wants to maliciously slander others as they may earn the flogging. And as Allah (swt) has told us not to spy on each other coming up with 4 witnesses is next to impossible unless the act is done so indiscreetly as to upset a normal society. Holland comes close to this. Thx for clarification. =)
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
@Surah72 who judges "evil" and "wrong"?
donHooligan 1 year ago
@donHooligan
You've got to be kidding me.
Are you telling me you don't understand the difference between right and wrong?
Are you telling me you don't know what is 'evil' and what is 'wrong'?
Are YOU telling ME you don't know murder, oppression, subjugation, inequality, rape are WRONG?
I seek refuge in Allah from being among the ignorant.
Peace.
Surah72 1 year ago
@Surah72 i never said that. you ASSume a Lot.
so these people are punishing themselves? i think you Completely missed my point.
i seek refuge in allah (god, gaia [same thing]) from being among the arrogant.
p.s. your ego is a Huge Sin.
donHooligan 1 year ago
@donHooligan
Stoning is not part of the Quran. No act occurs.
Lashing is avoided if the person swears 4 times, the 5th bringing the curse of Allah upon them that the accusers are the liars.
Those who admit the wrong: Yes, they are punishing themselves. They take the punishment in this life, instead of the Fire in the Hereafter.
You bring Insult, Invalidation, and Ad Hominem. Bring it up a a couple steps on the Rhetoric Ladder with Evidence and Sound Argument.
Peace.
Surah72 1 year ago
@Surah72 i never said stoning was a part of the koran.
oooooooooookay. sounds a lot like magick, to me. do they have to swear under a full moon, or anything?
your perception may be askew. (as far as the "insult, invalid...blah blah blah) you sound like one of those condescending atheists who always regurgitate Someone Elses clever comments and rebuttals.
i hope you learn humility, some day.
i hope tomorrow goes better for you than today went.
donHooligan 1 year ago
@donHooligan
If tomorrow is better than today, I will be doubly blessed.
Insha'Allah. :)
Peace.
Surah72 1 year ago
@Beatnuk right on.
donHooligan 1 year ago
This is fighting evil with more evil, it heals nothing. And this perversion of humankind IS a disease to be healed. Emphasis on Healed.
Energetically, what is one doing?
Putting fellow humans in front of others to humiliate them, to BRAND them in such a way in front of others... It's trauma, and when under the influence of trauma one *cannot come to an understanding of the TRUTH*. If the person in fault does not understand then any "punishment" will create subconscious hatred.
Beatnuk 1 year ago
part two
Considering how Anastasia talks about the power of human thoughts and feelings - WHAT GOOD DOES TRAUMA DO? It generates hate, fuel for the demons, the disintegration and destruction of life. It's through practices like these the dark forces can exist at all. It's darkness in ritual form.
Flogging a person does not awaken them to the fact that they're at their own source Divine.
It's hard to know oneself when "society" is taking on the role of God as Judge and "punisher" *against you*
Beatnuk 1 year ago
part three
- Granted, society is incredibly perverted, but this cultural environment is designed to put barriers between Man and his natural source of understanding. The strongest barrier is the temptation of carnal pleasures, the second is the artificial systems of "morality" and politics - reward and punishment, where humans are subjected to other humans. All of this leads Man away from the condition of INNER FREEDOM, in which truth let's itself be known.
Beatnuk 1 year ago
@Beatnuk I hear you on that. Perhaps if a child was not the potential product of this act, it would not be a serious issue but if some people get so far out of line as to promote promiscuity as is done in today's culture---openly having sex like beasts then it needs to be either fought back or deserted. I don't think Muslims can fight it back. They will have to choose to leave it behind to create a new society and then keep that one clean. Then others can come join or create their own.
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
@Beatnuk Yes, thank you Beatnuk for your healing words of wisdom yet again.
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
In the Ringing Cedars series, Anastasia has sex with a married man (the author), so I'm told.
brightbite 1 year ago
@brightbite Yes, he had been having extramarital affairs for a long time so it was no longer an intact marriage. After Anastasia, he officially left his wife which he should have probably done a long time ago. Also, after Anastasia, he didn't go with other women. It was as though they were married (unconventionally would be an understatement) but spiritually, yes. It changed his life dramatically and he fathered 2 children with her. BTW, I don't agree w/ everything in the books but almost. =))
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
@quantumsolutions Yeah. I haven't read the books myself, but I have read reviews.
brightbite 1 year ago
There is nothing wrong with sex, if its done with love and compassion, its loveless sex which lack in compassion that brings your energy down. Punishing people for their private intimate life is completely radical, it should be private things, everybody has the right to chose.
chafut 1 year ago
@chafut Perhaps that's why you need so many witnesses. It is likely that two people you describe would be sufficiently discreet so as not to call any heat on themselves. Or if done in a state of love, would probably not be afraid to commit to a relationship that is respectful to themselves and society.
Thanks for your input. Peace to you.
quantumsolutions 1 year ago