"Pro-Life Philosophy"

[RPenta]

The great thing about President Obama is that he exemplifies the complete anti-life philosophy of someone who is just your run of the mill liberal (lame stream media view) or global elitist (which I think he is so I agree with folks like Alex Jones on this): Obama is pro-war, pro-abortion, and pro-death penalty. He tags all the bases although I am not yet sure that he is pro euthanasia or pro infanticide.

[Fuctmentality]

This philosophy is stillborn. It doesn't explain why it's wrong to kill a "person" nor does it actual give reason to consider a zygote a person. It's in essence just a rehash of the standard pro-life argument IE It's wrong because I say so. That's not an argument.

[Jbones1O3]

@Fuctmentality I'm sorry I thought it was a part of the natural law that it's immoral to murder a human person.

[Fuctmentality]

@Jbones1O3 You're right I totally remember learning that in physics. Sorry but this isn't even an argument it's statement of what one considers a person & then a statement that killing a "person" is wrong. This was made by a philosophy professor? What kind of philosophy professor forgets to answer the question of "Why?"? That's just plain being lazy.

[john12892]

Listen Anti-Freedom people,why abortion will never be illegal is for some reasons 1) Roe v Wade. 2) the idea of trading life for another(also know as women dying if it's jeopardizes the women life herself) 3) You guys don't have to get abortions(it's a perk of having choices), but that doesn't mean because you don't like the idea of abortion that every women in the United states can't have the option. The United staes and the laws have no place in a women's uterus.

[gracehi88]

@john12892 Roe V Wade can be abolished. Most pro-lifers believe that abortion is acceptable if the pregnancy threatens the mothers life. Do ur research & perhaps you wont look so foolish. Also before the emancipation proclamation one could have just as easily argued "Dont like slavery? Dont own slaves." Pro-lifers believe that an unborn child is a human being that has the right to live so to simply choose not to have an abortion while 4400 abortions are performed each day is not enough to them.

[john12892]

@gracehi88 Wow, I don't think I have ever read such a moronic statement in my life. Dont like slavery? Dont have slaves? That is a complete other topic in itself(one that opressed people). In this statement, I could easily argue that not having the option for abortion is opressing. And 4400 abortions are performed each day? why is your statisitic from? And while I may agree a unborn child has the right to live(But only by the choice of the mother, not the people or government)

[gracehi88]

@john12892 Its no more moronic than saying "Don't like abortion, don't have one." That was obviously the point I was makeing. Clearly choosing not to have an abortion wouldnt stop thousands of other abortions from occuring each day & that doesnt sit well w/ those who see abortion as murder. I found that statistic several years ago. To be honest its probably a bit high now. I heard 3700 from another source. But if u do ur research whatever source u find will tell u about 4000 abortions each day.

[john12892]

@gracehi88 Not even close; those people who view it as murder anyway, could go shove it up their ass for one reason. After the child is born, it's no longer something they care about. I never see these people protesting for womens help in child raising or anti-child poverty. Their opinions on abortion may be just to them, but in the end its not enough for a cause to remove it from being an option.

[gracehi88]

@john12892 Who are you to say whether or not pro-life people care about children after they are born? I suppose you know each and every one personally? That is a completely rediculous statement & one that you can't defend. I'm pro-life. I give to children's charities & in high school raised funds to buy a christmas gift for a child w/ an incarated father. You don't know what you're talking about so don't pretend that you do.

[john12892]

@gracehi88 Who am I to say that? I have been to politcal rallies to fight for women-child rights after birth. While i won't sit on this computer and say that other people at that rally aren't pro-choice. But to say that all pro-lifers(and I use that term loosely) go to rallies to fight for better healthcare and womens right to stay home and raise child while receiving wages from their employeers is nuts. So you'll have to excuse me if I look at the pro-lifer rally and call them hypocrites.

[gracehi88]

@john12892 You think women should get paid by their "employer" to stay at home? By that you mean not work? And for how long exactly? A few weeks? Months? Years? I'm sorry but women DON'T have the right to get paid if they're not working. Nobody does. That has nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice. If I understand you correctly, what you're talking about is welfare, and that's a different subject entirely.

[john12892]

@gracehi88 Women should be paid mandatory of up to 6 months( so she has time to set up day-cares and be with the child) after birth. To say not, is pretty inhumane.This is exactly one of the reasons why I don't understand the Anti-abortion side of things.Because you guys honestly believe the problem stops after the child is born, after those people could care-less whats happens to the child.You wanna call this welfare? Didn't know employeers paying you was welfare.And by that I do mean they work

[gracehi88]

@john12892 Ur description was pretty vague. U cant expect anyone to gather what u just said from simply saying, "womens right to stay home & raise a child while receiving wages from their employers." What u just described is maternity leave & many employers offer that already. While maternity leave is important to make things easier for new mothers its not a matter of life & death. Abortion is. Thats why pro-lifers focus on protesting against abortion. Its not that they dont care about women.

[john12892]

@gracehi88 They have Maternity leave, but only for a short while. They do not get compensated for it either. And Abortion is about life & death(depending on which side your looking at).

[gracehi88]

@john12892 Excuse us cold hearted pro-lifers for caring more about whether children live or die than how long women get maternity leave. How evil of us to take it upon ourselves to take care of new mothers & their children by donating to charities, setting up homes for abused women & children, & running free pregnancy centers. Clearly we all should picket in front of buildings and bitch about maternity leave to people who don't give a shit anyway. That would be MUCH more effective.

[hotdoh]

So the fertile eggs that don't make it to the uterus are "killed persons" and the mothers are guilty of manslaughter? Miscarriage = manslaughter? "Oh but no, surely this is greater and must be classified as "murdering babies"...so put your money where your mouth is and say that abortion deserves the punishment for murder. Have an abortion or two, your body doesn't transport a fertile egg properly to the uterus, a miscarriage, and the legal punishment of the death penalty results. Ironic much?

[firechalice]

@hotdoh There is a big difference between a miscarriage and an abortion, unless the miscarriage was intentional.

[hotdoh]

@firechalice You show my point perfectly. If the only difference in your mind is intent, then the only legal difference an unintentional miscarriage and an abortion would be that between manslaughter and murder. Manslaughter = unintentionally killing someone = miscarriage. Murder = intentionally killing someone = abortion. See how silly this all is?

[firechalice]

@hotdoh But the mother isn't the one killing the child. The child is usually missing a chromosome or something, and it is not able to properly develop. If the unborn child has some sort of cancer and it dies, is it manslaughter? No.

[hotdoh]

@firechalice Ah, but she allowed for the conception to take place at all. If she had simply kept her slutty legs closed, then there would have been no possibility of mishaps. If I get in a car, then I accept that I may possibly kill someone by accident, and that would make me guilty of manslaughter (even if my car malfunctioned / "the chromosome or something" went wrong).

[firechalice]

@hotdoh Women should just save themselves for marriage. And why are you comparing a miscarriage with a car crash? A car crash is an accident, a miscarriage is inevitable.

[hotdoh]

@firechalice Car crashes are an inevitable result of driving the same way that miscarriages are an inevitable result of sex.

[ionmastersp21]

ok so hundreds of children, perhaps in the thousands, die in this world for shit reasons being fucked up parents, wars, hunger, everybody here knows the reasons. These "persons" (fetuses) mentioned here die (or are killed) when they are not concious... lost my train of thought, my basic message is that if "killing fetuses" can contribute to the expansion of science than so be it.

[Jbones1O3]

The belief that abortion does not kill a human person is on the same plane as the belief that God does not exist. The evidence to the contrary is so preponderant that it can't be argued logically. In other words, you don't need a logical proof for why abortion kills a human person or for why God exists, but rather a psychological explanation of the pro-choicer and the atheist. The only logical reason for being pro-choice or an atheist then is that it's my only hope of remaining so... illogical?

[hotdoh]

@Jbones1O3 "The belief that abortion does not kill a human person is on the same plane as the belief that God does not exist...In other words, you don't need a logical proof for why...God exists..."

Phew, It sure is nice to see that you recognize the Flying Spaghetti Monster along with the holiness of His Noodly Appendage and the obviously correct Theory of Intelligent Falling. NO PROOF REQUIRED; this is simply the way things are...duh!

[hotdoh]

@Jbones1O3 "The belief that abortion does not kill a human person is on the same plane as the belief that God does not exist...In other words, you don't need a logical proof for why...God exists..."

Phew, It sure is nice to see that you recognize the Flying Spaghetti Monster along with the holiness of His Noodly Appendage and the obviously correct Theory of Intelligent Falling. NO PROOF REQUIRED; this is simply the way things are...duh!

[89pac]

@Jbones1O3 The belief that God does not exist is just as illogical as the belief that God does exist. There is no proof or disproof for God, and therefore all atheists and religious people base their beliefs on intuition, or their "gut feeling". The only logical answer to the existence of God is Agnosticism, which suggests that there really is no answer for God because we simply can't devise an experiment in any way to prove God. Do not take this as offensive, because I am not anti-religion.

[Jbones1O3]

Romans 1:18-ff.

[Lichoudaris]

cool movie

[RealEros1]

i only see life and death thats the reasonable way to see things in this matter. cause truely isnt fish,birds,plants etc just another form of life? death is just an end to life,nothing special about death,but life is something to special to rid of.the only reason we abort is mostly due to a governemnt and a society that has put people in money and care issues and to the injustice of rape etc if we supported and preverted rather then controlling chaos(what the police do) then we wouldnt abort

[xK473]

i'm pro-choice; i believe that someone is a person when he or she can survive without needing the direct assistance of someone or something else to live. for example, when a fetus can survive outside the uterus without an umbilical cord, i consider it a person. if someone can survive without live support, he or she is a person. when i say "direct assistance", i do not mean needing to be fed by a parent because he or she isn't attached to someone or something else physically.

[BroMedia2]

So it is possible for someone to live the first part of their lives as non persons, then become a person for several years, then become a nonperson for several more years before dying?

[xK473]

in my opinion, yes.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

So you consider a fetus a person because of the umbilical cord, and that's all? The attachment? That doesn't sound very scientific to me... I mean, we don't tell people who are adults that they are not people because they're hooked up to dialysis or catheters. What's the difference? They both need those connections to survive.

[xK473]

exactly! what is the difference? nothing. read y comment again; i mentioned that i don't consider them people.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

See, that's the problem though. You not considering someone to be a person doesn't make them not a person. It just means that's what you believe, which doesn't matter if a person is getting killed in the process. Sorry, I see too much of ppl saying "I think" when opinions have nothing to do with personhood.

[xK473]

you're right. personhood definitely starts at birth! silly me, with my "opinions" and what not.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

Ah, but that is also a current opinion, and nothing more. Personhood beginning at birth is not a scientifically based legality, and therefore it has no merit. So yes, silly you, with your idea that your opinion dictates a person's humanity.

[hunterhansen79]

@xK473 An infant is in need of "direct assistance" to survive, as it cannot feed or otherwise care for his or herself. The umbilical cord makes no difference between a person who is helpless in the womb and a person who is helpless outside of it.

[hunterhansen79]

@xK473 An infant is in need of "direct assistance" to survive, as it cannot feed or otherwise care for his or herself. The umbilical cord makes no difference between a person who is helpless in the womb and a person who is helpless outside of it.

[Lichoudaris]

very good video, put things in a different way that's for sure.

[shmiggen]

Pretty damn amazing! Curious, isn't it -no pro-choicers here to debate. This video is air-tight. He uses both science and logic.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

So people trying to save lives are just causing pain? Wow. Glad you aren't the only one there to save me if I fall from the top of a building. Goodness. Here I thought killing was cruel.

[Emirichan317]

"ABORTION: the termination of pregnancy... resulting in the death of an embryo or fetus."

"INFANTICIDE: the act of killing an infant."

"INFANT: a child in the earliest period of life."

"CHILD: an unborn or recently born person."

"FETUS: an unborn vertebrate... a developing human."

from Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary and the Medical Free Dictionary online

[lij127sam]

a baby is a person beging at conception even when it is smaller than a grain of sugar!

[muertos06]

watch?v=zwNKuDDG6I4&feature=ch­annel_page

[HerAwesomenessXO]

Great Video, are there any other Pro-Life Philosophy views?

[noprob8ob051]

If we define human life as beginning at conception, then we've got nothing on nature who by and large kills far more of the unborn than any abortion clinic could ever dream of doing. If you are skeptical, research the numbers below and you'll find they are in fact true. My argument here isn't necessarily pro-choice, I merely wish to illuminate the fact that this issue really isn't as black and white as people think it is. Every woman is a natural born killer if life begins at conception.

[muertos06]

But nature is not morally accountable for the things that take place. You can't put a hurricane or an earthquake on trial.

[muertos06]

You can't prosecute a heart attack. You can't charge AIDs with homicide.

[muertos06]

A woman is not held responsible if there is a natural miscarriage that is beyond her control. Deliberately snuffing out that life, on the other hand, is morally reprehensible.

[noprob8ob051]

First of all, I'd like to give kudos to this video for conducting itself in a logical fashion and not using music to pander to my emotions as most pro-life videos do.

I would like to shed light on the following fact: 80% of embryos fail to implant themselves on the wall of the uterus and are flushed out with blood and tissue during the menstrual cycle unbeknownst to the woman to whom this is just another dried up egg exiting her body. Of those that do implant, 20-30% end in miscarriage.

[ChrisArlingtonVA]

A fetus is not a human being. It is nothing more than a blob of tissue cells that cannot live outside the mother's body. Since a fetus is part of the mother's body, the mother should have full, unconditional control on what happens to it. Even if that includes termination. "Love the fetus, hate the child" sums up the right-wing position on abortion. Especially if the child wasn't born rich and white.

[muertos06]

Last time I checked I wasn't rich. Or white.

"cells that cannot live outside the mother's body"

then you concede that scissors made you a human person

[noprob8ob051]

So at what point does it become a human being? After cutting the umbilical cord? Is there a magic moment that transforms a blob into a human being?

I'm honestly not trying to prove anything. These are honest questions which I still find difficult to answer. I'm no pro-lifer but I'm not pro-choice either. I am merely trying to get all sides of the debate and add to it

[yellowkrux]

It becomes a Human being once it becomes sentient, Literally that's in the definition of human being.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

The definition of a human being is the creature homo sapiens. If the DNA matches a human's, then they're a person. Believing or having the opinion that it's not a person doesn't make it not a person. I see a lot of "in my opinion"s on these sites, and "in my opinion" isn't what matters. The fact is an innocent human being is killed whenever an abortion is performed. Otherwise it's not a pregnancy. You aren't pregnant if you haven't conceived a new organism.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

Uhmmm... evidence of a fetus not being human please? I'd like to see some...

[swertyuiop310]

I just think that saying that a single, human cell deserves inalienable rights is like saying that a bacterial cell should be presented with these rights as well.

[Jbones1O3]

A human cell is far different from a bacterial cell. In terms of human fetal development, at fertilization, you have a somatic cell, which contains 46 chromosomes (23 from mom and 23 from dad). So, immediately at fertilization, the sex of the child is determined. Cell replication occurs and organs develop. Thus, the child has the faculties of thought, senses, and feelings. I suggest you read up on fetal development.

[bobplatypus]

@Jbones1O3 A human cell is also far different from a human

[ivoteprolife]

In the United States the human cell should. In the Declaration of Independence it states, we are CREATED equal and like the video says we have the right to pursuit LIFE, Liberty & happiness. It does not say we are born equal.  Human embryos should be protected. Abortion is murder.

[sgod33]

@swertyuiop310 Does a bacterial cell become a fully formed human being?...no, but a HUMAN cell is a HUMAN being. Just because a fetus cannot speak or walk, does that mean it doesn't deserve life?...or a 5 month old baby not being able to speak or walk?..or a 2 year old not being able to speak or walk or do the things you do?....do these HUMANS not deserve LIFE? A HUMAN is a HUMAN no matter how small.

[swertyuiop310]

I believe that where this argument becomes flawed, is when it presents the opinion, that when two haploid cells come together, the resulting single cell is a person, as fact. This is where I, as a pro - choice supporter, would disagree with you. To this point in your argument, I would respond that a person, is not, in fact, a single cell, but a body, a mind, and a soul that is self-aware. This is my opinion, nothing more or less.

[tnyrb444]

So, Is a two week neonate self aware?

If its not self aware, can society or the mother kill it?

If it is self aware, How do you tell?

[muertos06]

It used to be in every science textbook as a fact. Before Roe v Wade of course.

[muertos06]

Apparently, the scientific evidence was too offensive to pro-abortionists.

[michiganois]

muertos06: Absolutely. 1 Billion acts of abortion against innocent children have taken place worldwide in the last four decades. Indifferent to ethics but manic towards sacrificing others for power &/or wealth, medical-political-consumerist atrocities are dipped in the blood of their own children. What the pro-aborts feel is actually "Guilt," dishonestly spun as feeling "offended" by what they are continually doing. Abortion has put humanity into a death spiral of its own undeniable making.

[HerAwesomenessXO]

I've seen the original source where Jbones got this argument from, and he already answers this question:

Is a human a sub-category for person or is person a sub-category of human? Distinguishing humans and persons comes up only for two reasons: the possibility that there are nonhuman persons, like extraterrestrials, elves, angels, gods, God, or the Persons of the Trinity, or the possibility that there are some nonpersonal humans, unpersons, humans without rights.

[AllLifeIsBeautiful]

It is not opinion that when two haploid cells come together, they form a new organism. If the two cells were human cells, the resulting organism is human, and humans are people. The only times we have believed a human is not a person was back during times of slavery and the Holocaust. Where in medical science or legality does it say there are cases in which a human is not a person?

[crankdatcharizard]

Finally, this is the sense i've been looking for in the pro life argument! Science, not only morals, proves abortion kills people!

[JPaulDiLucci]

quite compelling