Even now, the Dems are saying in the sunday talk shows that raising taxes on the middle class must be left on the table for future tax negotiations. So much with Obama saying that the Middleclass wont be taxed! There is no way that all this spending wont affect people under $100,000 a year! Your nieve if you think that you will somehow avoid future taxes when leading dems say they must consider raising taxes on everyone!
Love the racist tone of your reply there MEGARATIONAL! Simply calling me a Jew when you dont even know who I am. Your parents must be proud that you were raised with such tolerance and understanding.
Regardless, I will stick with the facts. This will be changed in future elections. Its a temporary victory, and it shows that now we need a new Constitutional Amendment to start to get this out of control Congressional spending under control, from both parties.
@jacobew2000 "Regardless, I will stick with the facts. This will be changed in future elections." This is not a fact, more a wishful thought on the part of the GOP.
Fact 1: The Constitution of the United States of America exists primarily to further the interests of the American people; it does not exist for the sake of its own existence, and it is not prohibitive of change where it is required.
Fact 2: Currently, none of the GOP's possible candidates for the 2012 election would best Obama.
Sorry but I disagree with your "fact1". I believe that you have basic rights, that government should never be able to change at the whim of the moment. That separates the socialists from the constitutionalists. Basic freedom from government and overtaxation! TAXATION=SLAVERY!
Obama has lost more support faster than any president in modern history! Every poll says that. Even faster than Carter! Hes outta here!
@jacobew2000 May I question, then, to what point the Constitutional Amendments are valid? Does one acknowledge all 27, or only the first ten? They are called "Amendments" for a reason. And in terms of polls, who or what has Obama lost *to*? Has he lost support to any one GOP candidate for presidency? Herein exists my point: perhaps Obama is not doing as adequate a job as 100% of the American population should like, but who is the reasonable alternative now that McCain will no longer run?
@Acey83, that is fine as the constitution does allow for amendments. The problem is that the healthcare Law was passed using a wrong interpretation of the constitution, specificially that the liberals are saying that the Federal Govt has unlimited power to regulate anything that it deems as "interstate commerce". Read the 10th Amendment. It reserves everything not specifically given to feds, to the states.
@jacobew2000@jacobew2000 May I ask, are you yourself insured, and if so, what part of this bill would increase your direct tax payments to the IRS? Health insurance is surely a cornerstone of protecting oneself and one's family, *assuming* the H.I. providers are not corrupt, as they have been for the majority of the 20th century. When a policy can be retroactively canceled on the grounds of an unrelated pre-existing condition and the state bureaucracy does nothing, who is left to intervene?
@Acey83, and yes, in recent polls by numerous newsgroups, including CNN and MSNBC, Obama has lost to "unnamed" Republican candidates. Few independents I talk to, that voted for him, now think he is worth reelecting in 2012, and thats why he wont be!
@jacobew2000 Uh, I hate to break this to you, but that is what news organisations in America do: their sole goal is ratings, not news. Take Fox News as a prime example. "Fair and balanced", really? Anything they can say to create dissent and get people watching is a good call. Why won't news organisations do the responsible thing and name those who are leading Obama? That way the GOP could begin to rally around them well in advance of election day. Do you work as a journalist?
The beginning of the end of the freedoms of the American People! If you do not get their mandated insurance, you can be fined, or put in prison for up to 5 years.
AMERICA, YOU HAD BETTER WAKE UP NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE! Call your Senators and Congressmen today and demand them to vote it down in the next vote! Remind them that this violates their oaths!
"if you don't purchase h. insur. you will go to jail."
This is false.
Section 501 of the House bill imposes a tax of 2.5% of adjusted gross income. You're exempted if you already have h. insur. from employer, if you receive Medicare or Medicaid, are a dependent, are overseas, or have religions objections. You also get tax credits & deductions if you're low income: If you're not exempted, and don't purchase h. insur. you just pay a higher tax. You don't go to jail.
Now, if you refuse to pay your taxes, the government will fine you in the same way that it does whenever you refuse to pay your taxes. Prison is also a possibility for the most determined tax cheats, although generally speaking prison terms are reserved for the most egregious violations of the tax laws.
So: if you are not exempted, you must buy qualifying health insurance. If you'd rather not, for whatever reasons, you can pay a higher tax. If you pay your taxes, nobody will come after you.
I'm not American or anything so this does not really concern me in anyway, but why are so many Americans against this bill. I'm half French and British and yes in both countries free healthcare COSTS a lot of money. But what's more important ? Saving people's lives or saving money ? get your priorities right republicans... You moan about healthcare costing too much but how about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?They cost just as much and didn't save any lives.Blame Bush for the deficit not Obama
@sirus10 Oh yeah, you're the forgetful party that no one gives a shit about. libertarians suck. How's that for you? Your party is just one of those hidden radicals that can't do shit. If people like you were in charge, we'd done been bombed by now by ourselves.
What Americans and the world doesnt understand is that this will be the first time that the government has ever mandated that you buy anything. They falsely try to compare this with car insurance. But if you dont want to pay car insurance, you can simply not have a car. This is not a Left or right issue. It is a simple issue of government stripping away more of our freedoms to choose how to live our lives. If I am young, and dont see a reason to have insurance, why should I buy it?
Well obviously it sees how you value your civic duty I guess. In Europe we don't mind paying more taxes if some of it is going to help the less fortunate people in society. Obviously it's like all our taxes are just for homeless and poor people, some things are spent on things that I consider useless. But saying "i'm healthy I don't need insurence' does make a little sense, but doesn't mean your young that you don't get ill. I know someone who's 25 and has just got cancer... so you never know
@latuea, well that is a socialist idea that has spread like cancer in Europe. Here in the USA, we value independence, and freedom to choose whether we are taxed to death. I cant imagine living under certain countries in Europe where their tax rates hit over 70-80%! Simply put, when you allow someone else to spend your money, you never know what it actually is being spent on! Why should I trust the govt to do whats best for me?
The question is not that, it is whether the Federal Government, namely the Congress and President Obama, has overstepped their authority as defined by the 10th Amendment by forcing this health mandate upon the states.
10th amend: "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled"
@ldksparda i hope you get cancer from your mri and hard skin we will see in 2012 your party is dead they committed treason against the constitution and america they should be tried in a court and hanged
@sirus10 Oh you're just a whining little bitch republican that lost hardcore and will continue to lose because all of you are a bunch of ignorant pricks that uses religion as a scare tactic to the retarded population, which is you. So, pay up for my mri, fucker.
@idksparda, It isnt over! There will be future elections, and I promise that the middle america that this will screw, will vote these bums out of office! Americans wanted change, but what they got was slavery instead! It use to take until MAY to earn up enough to pay your taxes.. now I bet its more like July!
@LDKSPARDA, Goodluck seeing a doctor. 30million more people flooding the doctors offices, with doctors being forced to low wages! You will see more doctors leaving the health profession, or going into private practice without accepting any government forced insurance which pay pennies on the dollar.
Just look at the VA, and Medicare(if it exists in 20 years) and tell me that the govt can be trusted to provide me with quality healthcare. This will be overturned in the next 20 years!!!
So how do you pay for the health care and reduce deficit? Sounds like magic....I do like the bill, it will help a lot of people, but I was just hoping for free health care for all without any insurance, like they do in Europe...
It is all a bunch of lies! They hid all the facts that in the 2nd 10 years, it produces over $3.2trillion in debt. Of course, what they also dont want to show you is that there has never been any government program that has come within budget. Medicare is 100 times bigger than it was originally shown to the American public to cost.
Perhaps it is in fact time for a Constitutional convention and have the states take back their rights!
Guess your listening to the Liberal Propaganda and not reading the bill! I actually read it! The ink had not even been put to paper by Pres Obama and the dems were already talking about another bill with "fixes". Shows how badly the screwed up this bill and rushed it through.
@jacobew2000 A couple of technicalities jackoffjew, that pertained to cutting the banks out of being a middleman in student loans, so don't get your panties in a knot.
@hrashid949 first of all im true libertarian i hate repubs necons dems progressives dont try to pull the race card its dead 1 its unconstitutional the individual mandats sucks the govt cant make you do anything so if they try to fine me i will sue now what you dont understand is the big bad insurance company wrote the bill you been had by your own party lolololol hahahah ron paul 2012
@supra97k Go to hell you republican cock sucker. Your kind has fallen since your beloved Bush fucked America up for 8 years. Now it's the poor people's turn to fuck people like you over now.
@supra97k I don't know much about this bill, but yours is an igorant view. Not all who are on welfare are black. Poverty affects all races. I'm white & had to depend on welfare growing up. There also aren't "typical" people on welfare. I'm an honors student in college raising myself out of the situation..& depended not only on gov't grants to pay for it but my own hard work & intelligence too. Poor doesn't = dumb & lazy. You're blinded to the other side of the socioeconomic sphere.
If you dont know much about it than you shouldnt even have a view at all. The ignorance is on you on that part. As for the typical people who are poor, lol look up the statistics who ride the check...even, you need to stop looking at the "Television Screen"? And get real...seriously.
This bill is horrendous. Our children's standard of living will be lower than their parents for generations. All in the name of giving more freebies to people, in the hope that those recipients will vote Democrat. Sad day for America.
Even now, the Dems are saying in the sunday talk shows that raising taxes on the middle class must be left on the table for future tax negotiations. So much with Obama saying that the Middleclass wont be taxed! There is no way that all this spending wont affect people under $100,000 a year! Your nieve if you think that you will somehow avoid future taxes when leading dems say they must consider raising taxes on everyone!
jacobew2000 1 year ago
Love the racist tone of your reply there MEGARATIONAL! Simply calling me a Jew when you dont even know who I am. Your parents must be proud that you were raised with such tolerance and understanding.
Regardless, I will stick with the facts. This will be changed in future elections. Its a temporary victory, and it shows that now we need a new Constitutional Amendment to start to get this out of control Congressional spending under control, from both parties.
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000 "Regardless, I will stick with the facts. This will be changed in future elections." This is not a fact, more a wishful thought on the part of the GOP.
Fact 1: The Constitution of the United States of America exists primarily to further the interests of the American people; it does not exist for the sake of its own existence, and it is not prohibitive of change where it is required.
Fact 2: Currently, none of the GOP's possible candidates for the 2012 election would best Obama.
Acey83 1 year ago
@Acey83
Sorry but I disagree with your "fact1". I believe that you have basic rights, that government should never be able to change at the whim of the moment. That separates the socialists from the constitutionalists. Basic freedom from government and overtaxation! TAXATION=SLAVERY!
Obama has lost more support faster than any president in modern history! Every poll says that. Even faster than Carter! Hes outta here!
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000 May I question, then, to what point the Constitutional Amendments are valid? Does one acknowledge all 27, or only the first ten? They are called "Amendments" for a reason. And in terms of polls, who or what has Obama lost *to*? Has he lost support to any one GOP candidate for presidency? Herein exists my point: perhaps Obama is not doing as adequate a job as 100% of the American population should like, but who is the reasonable alternative now that McCain will no longer run?
Acey83 1 year ago
@Acey83, that is fine as the constitution does allow for amendments. The problem is that the healthcare Law was passed using a wrong interpretation of the constitution, specificially that the liberals are saying that the Federal Govt has unlimited power to regulate anything that it deems as "interstate commerce". Read the 10th Amendment. It reserves everything not specifically given to feds, to the states.
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000 @jacobew2000 May I ask, are you yourself insured, and if so, what part of this bill would increase your direct tax payments to the IRS? Health insurance is surely a cornerstone of protecting oneself and one's family, *assuming* the H.I. providers are not corrupt, as they have been for the majority of the 20th century. When a policy can be retroactively canceled on the grounds of an unrelated pre-existing condition and the state bureaucracy does nothing, who is left to intervene?
Acey83 1 year ago
@Acey83, and yes, in recent polls by numerous newsgroups, including CNN and MSNBC, Obama has lost to "unnamed" Republican candidates. Few independents I talk to, that voted for him, now think he is worth reelecting in 2012, and thats why he wont be!
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000 Uh, I hate to break this to you, but that is what news organisations in America do: their sole goal is ratings, not news. Take Fox News as a prime example. "Fair and balanced", really? Anything they can say to create dissent and get people watching is a good call. Why won't news organisations do the responsible thing and name those who are leading Obama? That way the GOP could begin to rally around them well in advance of election day. Do you work as a journalist?
Acey83 1 year ago
Lying crook
phantomcharger 2 years ago
The beginning of the end of the freedoms of the American People! If you do not get their mandated insurance, you can be fined, or put in prison for up to 5 years.
AMERICA, YOU HAD BETTER WAKE UP NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE! Call your Senators and Congressmen today and demand them to vote it down in the next vote! Remind them that this violates their oaths!
jacobew2000 2 years ago
"if you don't purchase h. insur. you will go to jail."
This is false.
Section 501 of the House bill imposes a tax of 2.5% of adjusted gross income. You're exempted if you already have h. insur. from employer, if you receive Medicare or Medicaid, are a dependent, are overseas, or have religions objections. You also get tax credits & deductions if you're low income: If you're not exempted, and don't purchase h. insur. you just pay a higher tax. You don't go to jail.
megarational 2 years ago
Now, if you refuse to pay your taxes, the government will fine you in the same way that it does whenever you refuse to pay your taxes. Prison is also a possibility for the most determined tax cheats, although generally speaking prison terms are reserved for the most egregious violations of the tax laws.
So: if you are not exempted, you must buy qualifying health insurance. If you'd rather not, for whatever reasons, you can pay a higher tax. If you pay your taxes, nobody will come after you.
megarational 2 years ago
@latuea and you also live under the criminal e.u cause your country is not smart enough to get out of it so your words dont matter
sirus10 2 years ago
I'm not American or anything so this does not really concern me in anyway, but why are so many Americans against this bill. I'm half French and British and yes in both countries free healthcare COSTS a lot of money. But what's more important ? Saving people's lives or saving money ? get your priorities right republicans... You moan about healthcare costing too much but how about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?They cost just as much and didn't save any lives.Blame Bush for the deficit not Obama
latuea 2 years ago
@latuea Bush is the true fuck up. If there's any blame, it's his fault for Iraq and Katrina.
ldksparda 2 years ago
@ldksparda i dont think you know the difference between rupublican and libertarian it shows us how dumbed down you are i hate both partys
sirus10 2 years ago
@sirus10 Oh yeah, you're the forgetful party that no one gives a shit about. libertarians suck. How's that for you? Your party is just one of those hidden radicals that can't do shit. If people like you were in charge, we'd done been bombed by now by ourselves.
ldksparda 2 years ago
What Americans and the world doesnt understand is that this will be the first time that the government has ever mandated that you buy anything. They falsely try to compare this with car insurance. But if you dont want to pay car insurance, you can simply not have a car. This is not a Left or right issue. It is a simple issue of government stripping away more of our freedoms to choose how to live our lives. If I am young, and dont see a reason to have insurance, why should I buy it?
jacobew2000 2 years ago
Well obviously it sees how you value your civic duty I guess. In Europe we don't mind paying more taxes if some of it is going to help the less fortunate people in society. Obviously it's like all our taxes are just for homeless and poor people, some things are spent on things that I consider useless. But saying "i'm healthy I don't need insurence' does make a little sense, but doesn't mean your young that you don't get ill. I know someone who's 25 and has just got cancer... so you never know
latuea 2 years ago
That's meant to say "It's not like all our taxes"
latuea 2 years ago
@latuea, well that is a socialist idea that has spread like cancer in Europe. Here in the USA, we value independence, and freedom to choose whether we are taxed to death. I cant imagine living under certain countries in Europe where their tax rates hit over 70-80%! Simply put, when you allow someone else to spend your money, you never know what it actually is being spent on! Why should I trust the govt to do whats best for me?
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000
Because if you fall down the stairs one day, you are a liability. It would cost everyone else if you can't pay for it.
KoschKff 1 year ago
But YOU are a liability right NOW and I don't mind paying to help your brain daMAGED ass. So what's the problem?
rachelsOne 1 year ago
@rachelsOne
look you ignorant fuck. I dont even live in teh USA anymore. I got sick of watching my own people eat shit and like the taste.
KoschKff 1 year ago
@KoschKff,
The question is not that, it is whether the Federal Government, namely the Congress and President Obama, has overstepped their authority as defined by the 10th Amendment by forcing this health mandate upon the states.
10th amend: "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled"
jacobew2000 1 year ago
I'm happy now. I will have insurance now and be able to have an MRI done on my back and no cost.
ldksparda 2 years ago
@ldksparda i hope you get cancer from your mri and hard skin we will see in 2012 your party is dead they committed treason against the constitution and america they should be tried in a court and hanged
sirus10 2 years ago
@sirus10 Oh you're just a whining little bitch republican that lost hardcore and will continue to lose because all of you are a bunch of ignorant pricks that uses religion as a scare tactic to the retarded population, which is you. So, pay up for my mri, fucker.
ldksparda 2 years ago
@idksparda, It isnt over! There will be future elections, and I promise that the middle america that this will screw, will vote these bums out of office! Americans wanted change, but what they got was slavery instead! It use to take until MAY to earn up enough to pay your taxes.. now I bet its more like July!
jacobew2000 2 years ago
@LDKSPARDA, Goodluck seeing a doctor. 30million more people flooding the doctors offices, with doctors being forced to low wages! You will see more doctors leaving the health profession, or going into private practice without accepting any government forced insurance which pay pennies on the dollar.
Just look at the VA, and Medicare(if it exists in 20 years) and tell me that the govt can be trusted to provide me with quality healthcare. This will be overturned in the next 20 years!!!
jacobew2000 2 years ago
I AM ON Medicare! and I'm NOT OLD! U hjave NO idea what you are talking about!
rachelsOne 1 year ago
So how do you pay for the health care and reduce deficit? Sounds like magic....I do like the bill, it will help a lot of people, but I was just hoping for free health care for all without any insurance, like they do in Europe...
IrinaNOLA 2 years ago
It is all a bunch of lies! They hid all the facts that in the 2nd 10 years, it produces over $3.2trillion in debt. Of course, what they also dont want to show you is that there has never been any government program that has come within budget. Medicare is 100 times bigger than it was originally shown to the American public to cost.
Perhaps it is in fact time for a Constitutional convention and have the states take back their rights!
jacobew2000 2 years ago
You want a bunch of lies? Listen to the GOP propaganda on the h.c. bills.
megarational 2 years ago
yes
oneshotkill27 1 year ago
@megarational
Guess your listening to the Liberal Propaganda and not reading the bill! I actually read it! The ink had not even been put to paper by Pres Obama and the dems were already talking about another bill with "fixes". Shows how badly the screwed up this bill and rushed it through.
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000 Once again you either have your facts wrong or you are intentionally trying to spread deception.
The bill was passed on the understanding that there would be enough votes in the Senate to pass the "changes".
It was not a case where the bill was passed, then they started talking about changes.
Did you actually not know that? Or are you just trying to spread lies?
megarational 1 year ago
@megarational, apparently YOU WERE WRONG! The senate parlamentarian did in fact find 2 things in this new bill that violated it!
Most of this stuff in the bill, i guarantee that your senator/congressman didnt read! They are even now finding more things wrong in this bill.
BTW, Abortion is now legal under this LAW, regardless of how much you say otherwise. Obama cant change that with an executive order!
jacobew2000 1 year ago
@jacobew2000 A couple of technicalities jackoffjew, that pertained to cutting the banks out of being a middleman in student loans, so don't get your panties in a knot.
Means nothing.
megarational 1 year ago
People are against the bill are ideological bigots and should be locked up in a mental hospital (under the new Healthcare reform bill of course)!
hrashid949 2 years ago
@hrashid949 first of all im true libertarian i hate repubs necons dems progressives dont try to pull the race card its dead 1 its unconstitutional the individual mandats sucks the govt cant make you do anything so if they try to fine me i will sue now what you dont understand is the big bad insurance company wrote the bill you been had by your own party lolololol hahahah ron paul 2012
sirus10 2 years ago
Wow...we lose. I definently agree with label1877. You other people are just typical niggers already on welfare. Period.
supra97k 2 years ago
@supra97k Go to hell you republican cock sucker. Your kind has fallen since your beloved Bush fucked America up for 8 years. Now it's the poor people's turn to fuck people like you over now.
ldksparda 2 years ago
@supra97k I don't know much about this bill, but yours is an igorant view. Not all who are on welfare are black. Poverty affects all races. I'm white & had to depend on welfare growing up. There also aren't "typical" people on welfare. I'm an honors student in college raising myself out of the situation..& depended not only on gov't grants to pay for it but my own hard work & intelligence too. Poor doesn't = dumb & lazy. You're blinded to the other side of the socioeconomic sphere.
MaggieLovesJimmy 2 years ago
If you dont know much about it than you shouldnt even have a view at all. The ignorance is on you on that part. As for the typical people who are poor, lol look up the statistics who ride the check...even, you need to stop looking at the "Television Screen"? And get real...seriously.
supra97k 2 years ago
@ supra97k
Reading things on the computer screen makes it hard for people to see their mistakes until afterward - I meant "ignorant".
MaggieLovesJimmy 2 years ago
Universal health care & deficit reduction in one bill! Amazing... Obama is an inspiration for our entire nation!
dcdwizzo 2 years ago
Respect.
PlanetMother 2 years ago
This bill is horrendous. Our children's standard of living will be lower than their parents for generations. All in the name of giving more freebies to people, in the hope that those recipients will vote Democrat. Sad day for America.
label1877 2 years ago
The mainstream America will vote these bums out of office, starting with REED!
jacobew2000 2 years ago
STFU U don't know a thing about politics.
rachelsOne 1 year ago
@label1877 And don't forget, they will kill your grandmother!
megarational 1 year ago