if the Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization was good enough for Miles Davis its good enough for me. thanks for the video! Shame all these idiots are complaining about it. Shame on them
What luck that I found this video! I've was wondering if something like it existed. Trying to learn as much as I can about the Concept. Thanks again.
It seems we have ANOTHER "know-it-all," who is more interested in getting in "the last word," than actually contributing something MEANINGFUL to the conversation. It's a JOY to see Pebber give these folks a rope, with which they inevitably hang themselves! The REALITY of these clowns is this: LOOK AT THEIR CHANNEL! This "17-year old," has 3 Uploads (NOTHING guitar-related), and 8 SUBSCRIBERS, but yet, this KID is an "expert"? Are you kidding me? He's only spewing pseudo-intellectual diarrhea.
@312chicagoadam A good argument is a good argument whether it comes from Stephen Hawkings or some redneck, same goes for a bad argument. You can't crush an argument on the premise that someone is not an authority. It's called appeal to authority and it's a logical fallacy, look it up.
Also note that I have never insulted Pebber here. (he has!) Yes, I did say he was wrong, but that is not an insult (and the tone of my voice may have been misinterpreted over text as being hostile when it is not.
@kratanuva725 You simply CANNOT resist, can you? Let me rephrase: People like you, are a dime-a-dozen; obviously WELL educated, but SO WHAT? Do something with it & STOP wasting time with this PETTY back-and-forth non-sense! Somebody as smart as you would seem to have WAY better things to do.Now, I could read, and educate myself on EVERYTHING there is to "know" about boxing....BUT does that mean I kick kick Mike Tyson's ass??? Time to get REAL, and put your money where your mouth (and brain) are.
@312chicagoadam It's called curiosity and it's not a sin. It's my business how much time I spend on actual music and how much time I spend on theory. Sure, there is balance like everything, and I have had to cope with that, and I think there will be a lot of lessons I will still have to learn when I go to college, but once again, It's not your business. I'm done with this argument for now, God bless. I'm going to listen to some Brubeck now.
@kratanuva725 YET AGAIN WITH A RESPONSE! Nothing worse than arguing with a child. I promise you, I was NOT making it "my business" about what you do with your time: NOBODY CARES. Do you REALLY think you are the first person to come along with this little petulant attitude? Far from it. Without getting too much more "involved," I will just say, as a fellow musician, I wish you all the BEST with your Musical Endeavors, but acting like you do will endear you to NOBODY,,,,but what do WE know, right?
@312chicagoadam That is absolutely 100% right on! Acting like this will get him absolutely absolutely on peoples "do not call" list. he said once he gets to "college" he has lots of lessons to learn - I dont think he has to wait for College - I think right now.
@pebberbrown My sentiments, exactly! You know, I had to come out swinging on this one; the ARROGANCE of this kid! I am almost starting to think that these "Trolls" are the SAME 3-4 people, with different accounts, because they are ALL THE SAME: ALL TALK-NO ACTION & REAL "smart" when they are in the SAFETY & comfort of Mommy & Daddy's basement. It is so obvious what will eventually happen to a person like this: Either LIFE, or someone like ME (or BOTH) will come along and DRILL THEM IN THE TEETH.
Although, it it interesting to note that a classic augmented fourth (10/9 + 5/4) is actually much closer to the 11th harmonic, differing by about 17 cents, it still is a sketchy comparison to make between the Lydian scale, and the 8th to 16th harmonics. It is important to note that the "A" (assuming the fundamental is C) is also very far from the standard Lydian scale (once again, about 50 cents, and this time there is no comparison with the classic major 6th.
The Lydian chromatic concept confuses harmonic stability with harmonic contrast and tension resolutions that place Ionian as the strongest tonality in the diatonic collection, possibly from it's combination of o-tonal and u-tonal sounds that are placed just right as to accord it as a strong tonic.The next most powerful tonality (arguably) in the diatonic collection is the phrygian mode. The weakest modes are the most O-tonal (lydian) and the most u-tonal (phrygian)
@pebberbrown You think I'm making this up? If there is anyone making ANYTHING up it wold be George Russell. (the etymology for diatonic means 'progressing through tones', not 'two tonic') Go and read some Hemholtz before you laugh. Maybe some Partch and Mathieu. (Harmonic Experience to be specific; wonderful book)
@kratanuva725 According to YOU! HA ha ha. The Lydian chromatic concept videos always attract the endless supply of academically self-important individuals! Diatonic? There exists a long argument about what the word means. It goes on and on forever. Everyone is a self-proclaimed authority just like yourself.
@kratanuva725 You have learned all you know from books, not experience or from people! If you had more of an idea of how languages developed you would digress. Diatonic has changed its spelling and meaning many times over the past 11 centuries - Diatonic has been spelled as Ditonic interchangelably. Many scholars have posited that the word Phoenician came from the word Foeking and others claim Voeking which traces back to VIKING. Diatonic can mean 2 tonics hence 2 tonal centers.
@pebberbrown OK, great! Now this discussion is getting somewhere. Thank you for finally addressing one of my points with a valid argument instead of resorting to ad hominems.
I can see the possibility of ditonic changing to diatonic; but can you point me to some records confirming this? Maybe old dictionaries or treatises on music theory? Tell me, did the Greek διατονικός mean "two tonic" (once again, I need evidence) or did that meaning come later?
@kratanuva725 Hey man - have you ever been in a FIGHT? Seriously. Have you ever mouthed off to your peers at school and had your ass kicked? Or do you just sit in your room in your mommy's house and try to argue with people on the internet?
@pebberbrown And now we're back to insulting me... I feel so good about myself right now. Are you happy? Once again, I am sorry if I came off too strong at the beginning of this argument, but I have never personally insulted you or your intelligence.
@kratanuva725 Thats the problem with punk ass teenagers - you dont even know or have a fucking CLUE how absolutely RUDE you are. Thats because you have NEVER been out of the house and had to function in the real world and work for an employer. The day you realize you have to pay rent and pay your bills strictly from your day job that you have to KEEP and maintain even though its unpleasant is the day you start showing some manners and respect for adults. Getting REAL tired of your attitude.
@kratanuva725 All you tell me is "wrong" and "No" you are wrong and then offer lengthy statements like you are some kind of authority - your profile says you are 17 - so lets see? What degrees and what schools did you go to? What bands have you played in? How many years of guitar lessons did you have? Anyone can swoop into one of my pages and rap on about anything claiming that they are an authority, but you know what we are all getting tired of your endless bantering and arguing!
@kratanuva725 As someone who has studied composition and is also a student of Pebber's, I have to say that you have grotesquely missed the point. There is nothing here for you to agree or disagree with. Take the LCC for what it is. This video is only an introduction to it. To rationalize that the LCC is flawed but that Partch's methods of Utonality and Otanlity (which are basic major and minor chords...don't over complicate it) are somehow superior is just utter over educated juvenile rubbish.
@ursinderoche I think you are missing MY point. First off, U and O tonal are terms coined be hemholtz, not partch, and second off, I disagree with both of their theories. (I just cited them to prove that the terms I used were not made up)
Second off, basically everything that I believe can be summed up in in Mathieu's book; Harmonic Experience. So don't think my theories are "over educated".
@kratanuva725 Utoanl and Otonal were terms coined by Partch not Helmholtz (not Hemholtz it's Helmholtz). Your theories aren't overeducated...they've been around for over a hundred years. It's old news. The way you are blabbering on and on and arguing with Pebber makes you sound like a coffee house snob who has read too much Nietzche
@MamaPants001 A lot of huge Jazz artists have embraced the Lydian Chromatic Concept - such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, McCoy Tyner and more contemporary jazz artists like Jan Garbarek and Terje Rypdal and Herbie Hancock and John McLaughlin.
I agree the criticism is not valid and sophomoric. You offer aural experience as opposed to score sheets and discursive rambling. Theory is theory after all-my only criticism of Russell is that he dodges integrating common practice into his theory-but that is precisely his point-style and imagination is the limiting factor for the artist.Reconciling LCC with conventional harmony is tough work, but worth it.
@pebberbrown Wrong, the 11th harmonic of the overtone series is an undecimal semi-augmented fourth. (11/8) The augmented fourth may be represented by a various number of frequency ratios, but it is typically around 600 cents large, give or take 10 or so cents. The semi-augmented fourth is approximately 550 cents large, nothing at all like the augmented fourth. By the way, what in hell's name do stacked fifths have to do with the overtone series?
@pebberbrown But you just claimed that the overtone series is proof of the legitimacy of the Lydian scale. Hence my question (which you haven't addressed) What do stacked fifths have to do with the overtone series? They are two different things. You also failed to address why the 11th overtone is an augmented fourth when in reality it is right in between a augmented fourth and a perfect fourth.
@kratanuva725 Listen kraknuts, we are dealing with basic instruments here - THE PIANO and the GUITAR, not some microtonal Ghuzang or u-tonal o-tonal Harry Partch or Iannis Xenikis creations. We are talking about the LYDIAN SCALE which is defined in the book LYDIAN CHROMATIC CONCEPT by George Russell. Thats what this video is about - George;s BOOK, not one of your microtonal obscure academic doctoral dissertations. This video is to show ROCK guitar players what the LYDIAN scale is.
@pebberbrown All of your monotonous and irrelevant questions are covered in DETAIL in George Russell's book and I dont plan on RE-TYPING his text just so you can posit yet one more academic argument. I know you are smart and well researched into microtonal music, and I am sure your information is quite accurate, but this is a basic video aimed at a BASIC crowd of mostly rock guitar players, who comprise my main audience. Why dont you go ahead and post a video instead - I see you have NONE.
@pebberbrown Like I said before, I plan on reading the concept as soon as I get my hands on it. (It isn't the easiest book to come by you know) But I do know of many others who have read it, yet find it fundamentally flawed in the same way that i do simply by reading introductions on the concept; jeff-brentdotcom/Lessons/LCC/LCCdiscrepancies.html I wanted someone to explain the LCC to me (I think the idea in general is good) but apparently I'll just have to get out my wallet and pay for the book
@pebberbrown I think you are confused. There is a difference between telling rock guitar players what the Lydian scale is and teaching rock players about the LCCOTO.
Anyway, we could go at this all day, so how about this? You read Harmonic Experience by W.A. Mathieu, and I'll see if I can get the LCCOTO through inter library loan or something. Through even the introductions online about the LCCOTO I can see it's inconsistencies, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... (cont)...
@kratanuva725 I am not confused - This is just ONE little video explaining the LCC to guitar students thats all - its not a treatise on the LCCOTO and its not attempting to deal with microtonal music concepts. Many Jazz musicians have embraced the LCC and many guitarists have integrated its concepts into their music. You just want to argue and pick fights online because you have a semi-education about music. Again like I said before - go ahead and make a video instead of arguing with me.
@pebberbrown (cont)... and listen; I don't blame you for thinking that all microtonal music has to be obscure and academic, (The microtonal community at large has certainly gave that impression) but read Harmonic Experience, it should show you A; How a knowledge of "microtonal music" (I don't even like that term) isn't an obscure concept and B; how it applies to a deeper understanding of music theory. Deal? In either case, God Bless.
Oh, and until you get the book, this is a good introduction;
h-pi.com/theory/naturals1.html
(P.S. U-tonal and O-tonal are not strictly "microtonal" terms, and apply just as well to microtonal instruments as they do to the guitar and piano.) :)
I'm 18, I've been playing guitar for a few years but have never looked into music theory. I picked up the guitar grimoire a few days ago and I needed somewhere to turn for explanation and advice. It's crazy how much shit you guys talk to a guy that's doing a GREAT thing. He's taking his own time to teach you assholes shit that you need to know if you are interested in playing music.
@calico992 Its STACKING FIFTHS dude. C-G-D-A-E-B-F#. STACKING FIFTHS. We dont "jump octaves" we stack fifths. You DONT "sustain notes within an octave." You STACK FIFTHS. Dont you GET IT? STACK FIFTHS to get the sound. THEN you re-arrange the notes into an alphabetical order to get the scale. This is the BASIC concept.
I've read the book. It's a good book. This isn't a very good explanation at all. Basically, the theory denotes the Maj13#11 sound as the most tonic of all chord structures. Each tonic has a series of more outgoing sounds that can be used. They are, in order of strength of tonality, Lydian Augmented (123#4#567), Lydian Diminished (12b3#4567), Lydian b7 (123#456b7), Auxiliary Augmented (123#4#5b7), Auxiliary Diminished (12b34#4#567), and Auxiliary Diminished Blues (1b2b33#456b7)
These scales are based on George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Scale, which is a ladder of fifths with some modifications. With a tonic of C, the LCS would be C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, G#, Eb, Bb, F, Db. You can see that this arrangement is analogous to the induction of outgoing sounds into the series of scales above.
In the book, Russell defines: Tonality = Vertical; Resolution = Horizontal. The ionian scale is horizontal because it contains a natural 11th in its tertiary order. Lydian does not.
@Parvenu333 Its explaining the Lydian mode to a legion of guitar shredders. No one in this huge group of people that I teach has any clue of all the other concepts.
This is a basic explanation of the Lydian scale. If your so fluent and clever where the hell is YOUR video on it then?
@pebberbrown Relax. I was just offering a concrete explanation for anyone who was a bit more curious about the theory past the extent of the information offered in your video, but unwilling to fork out $150 for the book.
Your video touches on the basics of the theory, but you can honestly obtain the same explanation on the LCCOTO website in 8 less minutes.
Also, if you purpose is to teach, then why respond to an inquisitive comment, "Read George Russell's book." That's just lazy, I feel.
@Parvenu333 Over the past year or so, almost everyone who deems to know anything about the LCC who has commented here has without a doubt acted like a sarcastic "know-it-all" and further leaves comments to put down anything that I do. Yeah -guitar players, go ahead and get the the great explanation from the LCCOTO website and see if you can figure it all out. Hey Parvenu- no one here would even KNOW that it existed at all if I didnt post a basic video on it. SO now go fuck off and leave.
@pebberbrown PARVENU you are one of the most ARROGANT ACADEMIC assholes to show up here - there have been others, equally without any practical experience hands-on with students who leave arrogant comments - Its always the LYDIAN Mode people though who are the most arrogant and who think they possess the holy grail of music theory. Its not and you are nobody, otherwise you would post all your own videos on the subject. Since you have NONE and only offer arrogant comments on mine, you FAIL.
@Parvenu333 "this isnt a very good explanation at all" ACADEMIC ARROGANCE.
I deal with the real world of guitar students - you obviously dont deal with ANY students and have ANY UNDERSTANDING at all of peopel skills or how to convey informatin to a student. Maybe you have a PhD in music theory but you are an ARROGANT ACADEMIC ASS.
One way to simplify it is: if you see a Cmaj 7 chord just think of it in terms of it being in the tonality of G maj, therefore you could play the G major scale and all its arpeggios superimposed over it. See Frank Gambale's Book. The F is part of the Horizontal scales, it wants to resolve down to E, and if the underlying chord is C Maj7 ; C - E - G - B the F forms a b9 interval with the E which is a big no no, unless you want it to clash for somekind of an effect.
There are 4 7 note scales which yield "true" tonal resultants, according to the data I gleaned from the extended atonal theories of Alan Forte. These modes are 7-35, 7-34, 7-32P, and 7-32I.
The aforementioned scales and their respective modes constitute a plethora of colors. Each color is a secondary system to the primary system of an extended tonal model.
The theories of George Russell succeed and fail. It succeeds in being an excellent approach. It fails, as it is not the whole story.
The only thing I don't get is what happens after F#? The perfect 5th of F# is C#. Because otherwise the only scale that exists is a lydian scale.. anyone get what I mean? it's like there's no relativity, like you have this scale and coz the overtones series doesn't have the natural 4th it harmonises. So you "think" C lydian for a Maj7#11 chord, AND you think C lydian for a Gmaj.. i mean forgive me for possibly being naive, but whats the point?
@Ardyvarky It is an esoteric systematic approach for musicians to approach music in a different manor than conventional tonal theories allow for. I can point out that I borrowed the book from a friend --- it leaves a lot to be desired.
I have a similar concept but instead of basing it on a mode derived from 7-35: "I have based it on the 4 scales (7-35, 7-34, 7-32P, 7-32I) - (28 modes) of my own extended tonal based on the research of Alan Forte".
what i don't understand is: i get the fifths cycle thing, this is the way every mode functions, but the scale you play in the end isn't it just G Major (with an F sharp)?
@c3v3b Thats the entire point of the Lydian system. Its not G Major and we dont think of it any longer as G major. Its C Lydian and C is the center of tonal gravity not G. Thats how the Lydian System works. Everything is based on Lydian - not Major. Its another way of looking at everything.
The way I recall hearing it is that while the first five partials of the harmonic series give us a major chord, very soon after that (at the 7th and 11th partial) we get something that doesn't really fit into western scales, but comes closest to raising the fifth and flatting the seventh in a major scale (lydian b7). African instruments used both of those partials, which is why blues and jazz got flatted fifths and sevenths -- it was the closest way to render it on even-tempered instruments.
the harry partch and just intonation information provided by dean drummond you have lead me to find has been very enlightening. I'll have to look into so much more of course, but it gets back to me trying to figure out how I will use it, which is very interesting to think about
and also thanks to pebber as usual.
I'm going to talk to my teacher about all I've learned here
and also about george russell's LCC book, surely he has it among his many books
first thanks for your vids - you put up really a lot of knowledge here, man!
Who I am: a double bass player with unfortunately low levels of computer literacy ;-) Thanks for encouraging me to make a vid on tuning systems etc. (If I only knew how - will find out).Some of what I said is in wikipedia, and in theory books by Hindemith, Partch, Schoenberg and others. These guys rarely agree with each other - but what can I say, in science everybody is wrong, in arts everybody is right!
Now, the 11th OT of C is right in the middle between F and F#11 of 12 TET (almost exactly the quarter note).
This is why I don't think one can justify the preference of #11 (lydian) over 11 (ionian) by the OT series.
Having said that, of course, and as you convincingly demonstrate on the KB, the strong resonance of the stack of fifths is by far more important for the result than the individual note's relation to the root. So it definitely works.
The OT series relates to the root in whole number ratios (2/1, 3/1, 4/1, 5/1, 6/1 etc). The pythagorean tuning only uses the third OT (corr. to the interval of a 5th) to obtain new material (thus 3-limit), but ignores all higher OTs. Stacking four 5th on a root gives the pythagorean third which is about 1/6 of a semitone sharper than the just major third derived from the 5th OT. Small difference but audible.
@midzulo You dont have any videos posted, you dont have a you tube page you have nothing. So for all involved we dont know who you are and where your knowledge came from. How about it man? You seem to be one of the better educated individuals on You Tube yet - who are you?????? :)
Thanks for your personal digest of the Lydian C Concept - much appreciated
I get the point about the #11 being more consonant than the 11
Minor comment : We cannot really justify this by the overtone series. The system of pythagorean tuning (which is approximated by 12 tone equal temperament) is strictly 3 limit - i.e. based on the third overtone. The 5th, 7th and 11th overtones are poorly represented. To our "pythagorean" ears their just intonation sounds quite far out (see Harry Partch).
@Jazzyteach65 Ohh come on now. Legendary? well uhh thanks for the compliment but really wait until I get Dr. Gratz in here to do a couple of Lydian CC videos. He's the REAL legend (student of George Russell and has a chapter in the LCC book!)
Thank you for posting this. The way I discovered you was trying to learn how you make chords from the lydian scale. I've been playing since I was a little guy in 73 and I'm here to tell you you are NEVER too old to learn or correct something which I done from your site.
Pebber...I really appreciate your video..first timer here...when you began stacking...overtones...it reminded me of the intro for Marcus Welby M.D....I know..you probably think I'm playing with half a deck, but those shows of the 60's and 70's had some of the best arranging..even Pink Panther who had guys like Tommy Tedesco.. anyway thank you again, and Im really going to enjoy this.
I come here to enjoy this lesson, only to find evidence of the gradual degrading of youth's minds in mindless, arrogant, RUDE comments that are thoughtlessly spouted out to a guy that simply doesn't need bullshit. Interesting conept though, I swear without Pebber I wouldn't know where to turn next to practice.
He totally just sent me 4 private messages explaining to me that I am gay and need to spend less time watching Oprah. Then he closed his account. Another little fucker gone.
In gymnasium we are teached this, it's very fundamental "concepts". We also call them "Church scales" or "The Greek scales".. There is a much easier way to explain it. A "Major" scale is the same as an "ionian" scale. That is If you fx: "play from C to C on the white tangents" If you do then move your finger so you play from fx: D to D, but still on only of the white tangets, then you have a Dorian scale.. an so on. As for the Lydian scale, you play from F to F on the white tangents.
I have been loaned the George Russel's: Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization. I think it is too in-depth with the psycho-acoustical existential metaphysical transcendental historical rhetoric as well as the teaching and re-teaching of modal/tonal relationships. I agree that Lydian is the beginning and the end, but for less befuddling reasons than Mr. Russel. I am actually writing a book called: "The New Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization".
I gave much reflection on the legal ramifications of the entire ordeal of the name of the book after your considerate note --- I have concluded that it should be renamed as: "Concordia Cum Veritate".
I am not worried about the content being questionable in terms of copyright infringement, as there are enough differences between Mr. Russell and myself that no court would bother entertaining such non-sense.
The opposite won't sound right. The lydian degree in a diatonic sequence you won't prolongue it. It will pull to itself, and its left to you either you stay there or you use it as a color for a macrostructurely based cadence music. I remember very many songs that I heard as a kid, with no cue of music theory, and I had a special reaction when the song went to the lydian degree, a thing I learned later on. I remember thinking it sounded like a song within song. Now I know why.
Lydian scale can be used to make amazing music, that doesn't sound "programmed" as much major/minor music sounds. Already resolved, it sounds "trapped" but serene and peacefull. The most delighfull sound. No wonder I have heard it applied at instances people want to denote significance like the Columbia logo or the latest dolby digital logo I saw in cinema. In pop music it is mostly used as a prolongation of, in order of occurence, the major degree, the minor degree, the mixolydian degree.
the c lydian mode is the 4th mode in the key of g maj. So does that make the lydian mode in any key the most consonant mode/scale in music composition?
The Lydian mode is based on stacking 5ths and then re-arranging the notes to make a stepwise scale. The Lydian mode is a natural arrangement of stacking 5ths and is not a MODE but the actual PARENT scale for the natural harmonic overtones that occur. Its is not a mode. Thats the difference in the thinking. There is no Lydian mode - the Lydian SCALE is the parent scale and all other modes are derived from the parent LYDIAN SCALE (not mode). This is the Lydian chromatic way of thinking.
Major scales got their name a few hundred years after the Greeks named all the modes. The Major scale is called the IONIAN mode. It is not the source of tonality, but mode V of the Lydian scale (In the Lydian Chromatic System). The Lydian system only works if everyone is all on board and not mixing Lydian and Major at the same time.
This happens when you try to work out compositions with band members who dont get it. If everyone knows, then you get that amazing cosmic angelic sound.
major scales are NOT "minor versions" of the Lydian Scale. minor means b3. The only scales that contain a b3 are, Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian and Locrian.
When I said minor I meant something else, sorry. I hate it when members of the band I'm in aren't in the same way of thinking that I'm in. I frequently get kicked out because of the way I treated the band. Really though, they are just a bunch of fucktards who don't even care about the music. I'm gonna be a solo artist.
when you play that F natural its like an old charlie chaplin or silent movie tension moment you should be a comedian too you comic timing is priceless. This lesson is fantastic.
if the Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization was good enough for Miles Davis its good enough for me. thanks for the video! Shame all these idiots are complaining about it. Shame on them
HonkeyTonTon 1 month ago
多調（ダリウスミヨー）に精通すると感じます。
musikahaus 5 months ago
What luck that I found this video! I've was wondering if something like it existed. Trying to learn as much as I can about the Concept. Thanks again.
FlitcraftEvanidus 5 months ago
Who cares about arguing, I came here to learn more on the Lydian concept. Thank you, Pebberbrown!
JoshuaCollinsTV 5 months ago
It seems we have ANOTHER "know-it-all," who is more interested in getting in "the last word," than actually contributing something MEANINGFUL to the conversation. It's a JOY to see Pebber give these folks a rope, with which they inevitably hang themselves! The REALITY of these clowns is this: LOOK AT THEIR CHANNEL! This "17-year old," has 3 Uploads (NOTHING guitar-related), and 8 SUBSCRIBERS, but yet, this KID is an "expert"? Are you kidding me? He's only spewing pseudo-intellectual diarrhea.
312chicagoadam 7 months ago 3
@312chicagoadam A good argument is a good argument whether it comes from Stephen Hawkings or some redneck, same goes for a bad argument. You can't crush an argument on the premise that someone is not an authority. It's called appeal to authority and it's a logical fallacy, look it up.
Also note that I have never insulted Pebber here. (he has!) Yes, I did say he was wrong, but that is not an insult (and the tone of my voice may have been misinterpreted over text as being hostile when it is not.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 You simply CANNOT resist, can you? Let me rephrase: People like you, are a dime-a-dozen; obviously WELL educated, but SO WHAT? Do something with it & STOP wasting time with this PETTY back-and-forth non-sense! Somebody as smart as you would seem to have WAY better things to do.Now, I could read, and educate myself on EVERYTHING there is to "know" about boxing....BUT does that mean I kick kick Mike Tyson's ass??? Time to get REAL, and put your money where your mouth (and brain) are.
312chicagoadam 7 months ago
@312chicagoadam It's called curiosity and it's not a sin. It's my business how much time I spend on actual music and how much time I spend on theory. Sure, there is balance like everything, and I have had to cope with that, and I think there will be a lot of lessons I will still have to learn when I go to college, but once again, It's not your business. I'm done with this argument for now, God bless. I'm going to listen to some Brubeck now.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 YET AGAIN WITH A RESPONSE! Nothing worse than arguing with a child. I promise you, I was NOT making it "my business" about what you do with your time: NOBODY CARES. Do you REALLY think you are the first person to come along with this little petulant attitude? Far from it. Without getting too much more "involved," I will just say, as a fellow musician, I wish you all the BEST with your Musical Endeavors, but acting like you do will endear you to NOBODY,,,,but what do WE know, right?
312chicagoadam 7 months ago
@312chicagoadam That is absolutely 100% right on! Acting like this will get him absolutely absolutely on peoples "do not call" list. he said once he gets to "college" he has lots of lessons to learn - I dont think he has to wait for College - I think right now.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown My sentiments, exactly! You know, I had to come out swinging on this one; the ARROGANCE of this kid! I am almost starting to think that these "Trolls" are the SAME 3-4 people, with different accounts, because they are ALL THE SAME: ALL TALK-NO ACTION & REAL "smart" when they are in the SAFETY & comfort of Mommy & Daddy's basement. It is so obvious what will eventually happen to a person like this: Either LIFE, or someone like ME (or BOTH) will come along and DRILL THEM IN THE TEETH.
312chicagoadam 7 months ago
The Bb (7/4) also occurs before the B in the harmonic series.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
Although, it it interesting to note that a classic augmented fourth (10/9 + 5/4) is actually much closer to the 11th harmonic, differing by about 17 cents, it still is a sketchy comparison to make between the Lydian scale, and the 8th to 16th harmonics. It is important to note that the "A" (assuming the fundamental is C) is also very far from the standard Lydian scale (once again, about 50 cents, and this time there is no comparison with the classic major 6th.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
The Lydian chromatic concept confuses harmonic stability with harmonic contrast and tension resolutions that place Ionian as the strongest tonality in the diatonic collection, possibly from it's combination of o-tonal and u-tonal sounds that are placed just right as to accord it as a strong tonic.The next most powerful tonality (arguably) in the diatonic collection is the phrygian mode. The weakest modes are the most O-tonal (lydian) and the most u-tonal (phrygian)
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 "o-tonal and u-tonal" HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown You think I'm making this up? If there is anyone making ANYTHING up it wold be George Russell. (the etymology for diatonic means 'progressing through tones', not 'two tonic') Go and read some Hemholtz before you laugh. Maybe some Partch and Mathieu. (Harmonic Experience to be specific; wonderful book)
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 According to YOU! HA ha ha. The Lydian chromatic concept videos always attract the endless supply of academically self-important individuals! Diatonic? There exists a long argument about what the word means. It goes on and on forever. Everyone is a self-proclaimed authority just like yourself.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown No, according to the Greek language.
'Two tonic' would be ditonic, not diatonic.
In general I agree that the term 'diatonic' is vague, but the etymology of it is not.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 You have learned all you know from books, not experience or from people! If you had more of an idea of how languages developed you would digress. Diatonic has changed its spelling and meaning many times over the past 11 centuries - Diatonic has been spelled as Ditonic interchangelably. Many scholars have posited that the word Phoenician came from the word Foeking and others claim Voeking which traces back to VIKING. Diatonic can mean 2 tonics hence 2 tonal centers.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown OK, great! Now this discussion is getting somewhere. Thank you for finally addressing one of my points with a valid argument instead of resorting to ad hominems.
I can see the possibility of ditonic changing to diatonic; but can you point me to some records confirming this? Maybe old dictionaries or treatises on music theory? Tell me, did the Greek διατονικός mean "two tonic" (once again, I need evidence) or did that meaning come later?
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 Hey man - have you ever been in a FIGHT? Seriously. Have you ever mouthed off to your peers at school and had your ass kicked? Or do you just sit in your room in your mommy's house and try to argue with people on the internet?
pebberbrown 7 months ago 2
@pebberbrown And now we're back to insulting me... I feel so good about myself right now. Are you happy? Once again, I am sorry if I came off too strong at the beginning of this argument, but I have never personally insulted you or your intelligence.
Peace!
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 Thats the problem with punk ass teenagers - you dont even know or have a fucking CLUE how absolutely RUDE you are. Thats because you have NEVER been out of the house and had to function in the real world and work for an employer. The day you realize you have to pay rent and pay your bills strictly from your day job that you have to KEEP and maintain even though its unpleasant is the day you start showing some manners and respect for adults. Getting REAL tired of your attitude.
pebberbrown 7 months ago 7
@kratanuva725 All you tell me is "wrong" and "No" you are wrong and then offer lengthy statements like you are some kind of authority - your profile says you are 17 - so lets see? What degrees and what schools did you go to? What bands have you played in? How many years of guitar lessons did you have? Anyone can swoop into one of my pages and rap on about anything claiming that they are an authority, but you know what we are all getting tired of your endless bantering and arguing!
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown By the way, how does George Russel cope with the augmented fourth's tendency to expand out and (in C) resolve to C and E?
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 As someone who has studied composition and is also a student of Pebber's, I have to say that you have grotesquely missed the point. There is nothing here for you to agree or disagree with. Take the LCC for what it is. This video is only an introduction to it. To rationalize that the LCC is flawed but that Partch's methods of Utonality and Otanlity (which are basic major and minor chords...don't over complicate it) are somehow superior is just utter over educated juvenile rubbish.
ursinderoche 7 months ago
@ursinderoche I think you are missing MY point. First off, U and O tonal are terms coined be hemholtz, not partch, and second off, I disagree with both of their theories. (I just cited them to prove that the terms I used were not made up)
Second off, basically everything that I believe can be summed up in in Mathieu's book; Harmonic Experience. So don't think my theories are "over educated".
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 Utoanl and Otonal were terms coined by Partch not Helmholtz (not Hemholtz it's Helmholtz). Your theories aren't overeducated...they've been around for over a hundred years. It's old news. The way you are blabbering on and on and arguing with Pebber makes you sound like a coffee house snob who has read too much Nietzche
ursinderoche 7 months ago
I'd known about modal scales but I'd never realised the harmonic significance in the lydian. Thanks for the vid!
mozgren 8 months ago
Hey, cool video. That's a really interesting concept, I've never really thought about stacking fifths before.
I was just wondering what kind of playing situation you would normally use this in.
MamaPants001 9 months ago
@MamaPants001 A lot of huge Jazz artists have embraced the Lydian Chromatic Concept - such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, McCoy Tyner and more contemporary jazz artists like Jan Garbarek and Terje Rypdal and Herbie Hancock and John McLaughlin.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
great vid thanks
mrfish4lyfe 10 months ago
Thanks so much for this video. I'm not very knowledgeable on modal scales and this has completely blown my mind.
skrattkantarellen 11 months ago
I agree the criticism is not valid and sophomoric. You offer aural experience as opposed to score sheets and discursive rambling. Theory is theory after all-my only criticism of Russell is that he dodges integrating common practice into his theory-but that is precisely his point-style and imagination is the limiting factor for the artist.Reconciling LCC with conventional harmony is tough work, but worth it.
musictflo 1 year ago
Comment removed
tothemax91 1 year ago
I can't hear what you're saying!!..!! which is a shame b/c I'd bet it's valuable.
Sivels 1 year ago
ok, i get that that you change F to F# in order to reflect a perfect 5th relationship with the B
but now the F# has a diminished 5th.
HeroFloyd 1 year ago
@HeroFloyd No because the 5th is still G. Its an AUGMENTED 11th, part of the natural overtone series.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@pebberbrown Wrong, the 11th harmonic of the overtone series is an undecimal semi-augmented fourth. (11/8) The augmented fourth may be represented by a various number of frequency ratios, but it is typically around 600 cents large, give or take 10 or so cents. The semi-augmented fourth is approximately 550 cents large, nothing at all like the augmented fourth. By the way, what in hell's name do stacked fifths have to do with the overtone series?
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 You are SO full of shit!! HA HA HA!!!
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 Stacked 5ths are the BASIS of all the notes of the Lydian Scale - as is explained in this video!
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown But you just claimed that the overtone series is proof of the legitimacy of the Lydian scale. Hence my question (which you haven't addressed) What do stacked fifths have to do with the overtone series? They are two different things. You also failed to address why the 11th overtone is an augmented fourth when in reality it is right in between a augmented fourth and a perfect fourth.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 Listen kraknuts, we are dealing with basic instruments here - THE PIANO and the GUITAR, not some microtonal Ghuzang or u-tonal o-tonal Harry Partch or Iannis Xenikis creations. We are talking about the LYDIAN SCALE which is defined in the book LYDIAN CHROMATIC CONCEPT by George Russell. Thats what this video is about - George;s BOOK, not one of your microtonal obscure academic doctoral dissertations. This video is to show ROCK guitar players what the LYDIAN scale is.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown All of your monotonous and irrelevant questions are covered in DETAIL in George Russell's book and I dont plan on RE-TYPING his text just so you can posit yet one more academic argument. I know you are smart and well researched into microtonal music, and I am sure your information is quite accurate, but this is a basic video aimed at a BASIC crowd of mostly rock guitar players, who comprise my main audience. Why dont you go ahead and post a video instead - I see you have NONE.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown Like I said before, I plan on reading the concept as soon as I get my hands on it. (It isn't the easiest book to come by you know) But I do know of many others who have read it, yet find it fundamentally flawed in the same way that i do simply by reading introductions on the concept; jeff-brentdotcom/Lessons/LCC/LCCdiscrepancies.html I wanted someone to explain the LCC to me (I think the idea in general is good) but apparently I'll just have to get out my wallet and pay for the book
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@pebberbrown I think you are confused. There is a difference between telling rock guitar players what the Lydian scale is and teaching rock players about the LCCOTO.
Anyway, we could go at this all day, so how about this? You read Harmonic Experience by W.A. Mathieu, and I'll see if I can get the LCCOTO through inter library loan or something. Through even the introductions online about the LCCOTO I can see it's inconsistencies, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... (cont)...
kratanuva725 7 months ago
@kratanuva725 I am not confused - This is just ONE little video explaining the LCC to guitar students thats all - its not a treatise on the LCCOTO and its not attempting to deal with microtonal music concepts. Many Jazz musicians have embraced the LCC and many guitarists have integrated its concepts into their music. You just want to argue and pick fights online because you have a semi-education about music. Again like I said before - go ahead and make a video instead of arguing with me.
pebberbrown 7 months ago
@pebberbrown (cont)... and listen; I don't blame you for thinking that all microtonal music has to be obscure and academic, (The microtonal community at large has certainly gave that impression) but read Harmonic Experience, it should show you A; How a knowledge of "microtonal music" (I don't even like that term) isn't an obscure concept and B; how it applies to a deeper understanding of music theory. Deal? In either case, God Bless.
kratanuva725 7 months ago
Comment removed
kratanuva725 7 months ago
Oh, and until you get the book, this is a good introduction;
h-pi.com/theory/naturals1.html
(P.S. U-tonal and O-tonal are not strictly "microtonal" terms, and apply just as well to microtonal instruments as they do to the guitar and piano.) :)
kratanuva725 7 months ago
I'm 18, I've been playing guitar for a few years but have never looked into music theory. I picked up the guitar grimoire a few days ago and I needed somewhere to turn for explanation and advice. It's crazy how much shit you guys talk to a guy that's doing a GREAT thing. He's taking his own time to teach you assholes shit that you need to know if you are interested in playing music.
happytyler41892 1 year ago
@happytyler41892 THATS telling it straight man!
pebberbrown 1 year ago
When you played the first major scale, you played the c d e f g a b -in the same octave- When you played the c g a e b -you jumped octaves-
It makes it sort of an unfair playing field.
If you sustain notes within octave of course its going to start sounded cluttered!
Good video though
Korg X5 rocks!
calico992 1 year ago
@calico992 Its STACKING FIFTHS dude. C-G-D-A-E-B-F#. STACKING FIFTHS. We dont "jump octaves" we stack fifths. You DONT "sustain notes within an octave." You STACK FIFTHS. Dont you GET IT? STACK FIFTHS to get the sound. THEN you re-arrange the notes into an alphabetical order to get the scale. This is the BASIC concept.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@pebberbrown what keyboard is that and its price? great sound out it.
diveplane 7 months ago
@diveplane Just a 2002 Korg X5D - bought it new back then for about $550...
pebberbrown 7 months ago
I've read the book. It's a good book. This isn't a very good explanation at all. Basically, the theory denotes the Maj13#11 sound as the most tonic of all chord structures. Each tonic has a series of more outgoing sounds that can be used. They are, in order of strength of tonality, Lydian Augmented (123#4#567), Lydian Diminished (12b3#4567), Lydian b7 (123#456b7), Auxiliary Augmented (123#4#5b7), Auxiliary Diminished (12b34#4#567), and Auxiliary Diminished Blues (1b2b33#456b7)
Parvenu333 1 year ago
These scales are based on George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Scale, which is a ladder of fifths with some modifications. With a tonic of C, the LCS would be C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, G#, Eb, Bb, F, Db. You can see that this arrangement is analogous to the induction of outgoing sounds into the series of scales above.
In the book, Russell defines: Tonality = Vertical; Resolution = Horizontal. The ionian scale is horizontal because it contains a natural 11th in its tertiary order. Lydian does not.
Parvenu333 1 year ago
@Parvenu333 Its explaining the Lydian mode to a legion of guitar shredders. No one in this huge group of people that I teach has any clue of all the other concepts.
This is a basic explanation of the Lydian scale. If your so fluent and clever where the hell is YOUR video on it then?
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@pebberbrown Relax. I was just offering a concrete explanation for anyone who was a bit more curious about the theory past the extent of the information offered in your video, but unwilling to fork out $150 for the book.
Your video touches on the basics of the theory, but you can honestly obtain the same explanation on the LCCOTO website in 8 less minutes.
Also, if you purpose is to teach, then why respond to an inquisitive comment, "Read George Russell's book." That's just lazy, I feel.
Parvenu333 1 year ago
@Parvenu333 Over the past year or so, almost everyone who deems to know anything about the LCC who has commented here has without a doubt acted like a sarcastic "know-it-all" and further leaves comments to put down anything that I do. Yeah -guitar players, go ahead and get the the great explanation from the LCCOTO website and see if you can figure it all out. Hey Parvenu- no one here would even KNOW that it existed at all if I didnt post a basic video on it. SO now go fuck off and leave.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@pebberbrown PARVENU you are one of the most ARROGANT ACADEMIC assholes to show up here - there have been others, equally without any practical experience hands-on with students who leave arrogant comments - Its always the LYDIAN Mode people though who are the most arrogant and who think they possess the holy grail of music theory. Its not and you are nobody, otherwise you would post all your own videos on the subject. Since you have NONE and only offer arrogant comments on mine, you FAIL.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@Parvenu333 "Thats just lasy, I fell." Another ARROGANT comment coming rmo someone who has NO EXPERIENCE with students.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@Parvenu333 "this isnt a very good explanation at all" ACADEMIC ARROGANCE.
I deal with the real world of guitar students - you obviously dont deal with ANY students and have ANY UNDERSTANDING at all of peopel skills or how to convey informatin to a student. Maybe you have a PhD in music theory but you are an ARROGANT ACADEMIC ASS.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
One way to simplify it is: if you see a Cmaj 7 chord just think of it in terms of it being in the tonality of G maj, therefore you could play the G major scale and all its arpeggios superimposed over it. See Frank Gambale's Book. The F is part of the Horizontal scales, it wants to resolve down to E, and if the underlying chord is C Maj7 ; C - E - G - B the F forms a b9 interval with the E which is a big no no, unless you want it to clash for somekind of an effect.
atorresmusic 1 year ago
very angelic! Tx!
allmusic85 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ardyvarky umm i dnt exactly get wat you mean but if you keep going it comes full circle: C#, G#, D#, A#, F, C ... ya know?
86Enimsaj 1 year ago
@ardyvarky umm i dnt exactly get wat you mean but if you keep going it comes full circle: C#, G#, D#, A#, F, C ... ya know?
86Enimsaj 1 year ago
There are 4 7 note scales which yield "true" tonal resultants, according to the data I gleaned from the extended atonal theories of Alan Forte. These modes are 7-35, 7-34, 7-32P, and 7-32I.
The aforementioned scales and their respective modes constitute a plethora of colors. Each color is a secondary system to the primary system of an extended tonal model.
The theories of George Russell succeed and fail. It succeeds in being an excellent approach. It fails, as it is not the whole story.
gblaney 1 year ago
The only thing I don't get is what happens after F#? The perfect 5th of F# is C#. Because otherwise the only scale that exists is a lydian scale.. anyone get what I mean? it's like there's no relativity, like you have this scale and coz the overtones series doesn't have the natural 4th it harmonises. So you "think" C lydian for a Maj7#11 chord, AND you think C lydian for a Gmaj.. i mean forgive me for possibly being naive, but whats the point?
Ardyvarky 1 year ago
@Ardyvarky Read George Russell's book.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@Ardyvarky It is an esoteric systematic approach for musicians to approach music in a different manor than conventional tonal theories allow for. I can point out that I borrowed the book from a friend --- it leaves a lot to be desired.
I have a similar concept but instead of basing it on a mode derived from 7-35: "I have based it on the 4 scales (7-35, 7-34, 7-32P, 7-32I) - (28 modes) of my own extended tonal based on the research of Alan Forte".
gblaney 1 year ago
Well you can think C Lydian for G Major, but this system would dictate that G Lydian would sit alot nicer against the chord.
ChrisTheContagion 1 year ago
So I'm in the IV mode of the G major scale, but still thinking chords relative to C major?
stanwilder04 1 year ago
what i don't understand is: i get the fifths cycle thing, this is the way every mode functions, but the scale you play in the end isn't it just G Major (with an F sharp)?
c3v3b 1 year ago
@c3v3b Thats the entire point of the Lydian system. Its not G Major and we dont think of it any longer as G major. Its C Lydian and C is the center of tonal gravity not G. Thats how the Lydian System works. Everything is based on Lydian - not Major. Its another way of looking at everything.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
The way I recall hearing it is that while the first five partials of the harmonic series give us a major chord, very soon after that (at the 7th and 11th partial) we get something that doesn't really fit into western scales, but comes closest to raising the fifth and flatting the seventh in a major scale (lydian b7). African instruments used both of those partials, which is why blues and jazz got flatted fifths and sevenths -- it was the closest way to render it on even-tempered instruments.
maurateague 1 year ago
@midzulo
thank you for sharing.
the harry partch and just intonation information provided by dean drummond you have lead me to find has been very enlightening. I'll have to look into so much more of course, but it gets back to me trying to figure out how I will use it, which is very interesting to think about
and also thanks to pebber as usual.
I'm going to talk to my teacher about all I've learned here
and also about george russell's LCC book, surely he has it among his many books
Timotheedle 1 year ago
Hi Pepper,
first thanks for your vids - you put up really a lot of knowledge here, man!
Who I am: a double bass player with unfortunately low levels of computer literacy ;-) Thanks for encouraging me to make a vid on tuning systems etc. (If I only knew how - will find out).Some of what I said is in wikipedia, and in theory books by Hindemith, Partch, Schoenberg and others. These guys rarely agree with each other - but what can I say, in science everybody is wrong, in arts everybody is right!
midzulo 1 year ago
Now, the 11th OT of C is right in the middle between F and F#11 of 12 TET (almost exactly the quarter note).
This is why I don't think one can justify the preference of #11 (lydian) over 11 (ionian) by the OT series.
Having said that, of course, and as you convincingly demonstrate on the KB, the strong resonance of the stack of fifths is by far more important for the result than the individual note's relation to the root. So it definitely works.
midzulo 1 year ago
The OT series relates to the root in whole number ratios (2/1, 3/1, 4/1, 5/1, 6/1 etc). The pythagorean tuning only uses the third OT (corr. to the interval of a 5th) to obtain new material (thus 3-limit), but ignores all higher OTs. Stacking four 5th on a root gives the pythagorean third which is about 1/6 of a semitone sharper than the just major third derived from the 5th OT. Small difference but audible.
midzulo 1 year ago
@midzulo You dont have any videos posted, you dont have a you tube page you have nothing. So for all involved we dont know who you are and where your knowledge came from. How about it man? You seem to be one of the better educated individuals on You Tube yet - who are you?????? :)
pebberbrown 1 year ago
@midzulo
nice, A+ :)
snezakovic 1 year ago
Thanks for your personal digest of the Lydian C Concept - much appreciated
I get the point about the #11 being more consonant than the 11
Minor comment : We cannot really justify this by the overtone series. The system of pythagorean tuning (which is approximated by 12 tone equal temperament) is strictly 3 limit - i.e. based on the third overtone. The 5th, 7th and 11th overtones are poorly represented. To our "pythagorean" ears their just intonation sounds quite far out (see Harry Partch).
midzulo 1 year ago
@midzulo What do you mean by poorly represented - they are part of the overtone series.
pebberbrown 1 year ago
Finally, the legendary teacher explains a legendary concept!!
Jazzyteach65 1 year ago
@Jazzyteach65 Ohh come on now. Legendary? well uhh thanks for the compliment but really wait until I get Dr. Gratz in here to do a couple of Lydian CC videos. He's the REAL legend (student of George Russell and has a chapter in the LCC book!)
pebberbrown 1 year ago
man i wish the piano were mixed a bit lower. cant hear your voice.
MrNixon79 1 year ago
Hi Peb,
Thank you for posting this. The way I discovered you was trying to learn how you make chords from the lydian scale. I've been playing since I was a little guy in 73 and I'm here to tell you you are NEVER too old to learn or correct something which I done from your site.
Peace and Hair Grease!
carl cranshaw
cranrocks 2 years ago
Pebber...I really appreciate your video..first timer here...when you began stacking...overtones...it reminded me of the intro for Marcus Welby M.D....I know..you probably think I'm playing with half a deck, but those shows of the 60's and 70's had some of the best arranging..even Pink Panther who had guys like Tommy Tedesco.. anyway thank you again, and Im really going to enjoy this.
rooseguitar64 2 years ago
I come here to enjoy this lesson, only to find evidence of the gradual degrading of youth's minds in mindless, arrogant, RUDE comments that are thoughtlessly spouted out to a guy that simply doesn't need bullshit. Interesting conept though, I swear without Pebber I wouldn't know where to turn next to practice.
JJack887 2 years ago 12
I wish I could "thumbs up" this reply.
dMcT1000 2 years ago
george didn't like bombastic , pompous teachers brudda.............i guess you're the genius.....puhleeze
eeee48 2 years ago
Another fine comment from another imaginary authority on George Russell. Puhleeze!
pebberbrown 2 years ago
Really did you know him personally?
wildhorsestudios1421 2 years ago
Fuck off dude.
justreleased09 2 years ago
William Shakespeare himself couldnt have said it better.
pebberbrown 2 years ago
He totally just sent me 4 private messages explaining to me that I am gay and need to spend less time watching Oprah. Then he closed his account. Another little fucker gone.
justreleased09 2 years ago 3
hehehhee.......
Actually....you are correct...he is a genius....
If you could do 1/10 of what Pebber has accomplished you might be something...
TheCrookedFinger 2 years ago 5
In gymnasium we are teached this, it's very fundamental "concepts". We also call them "Church scales" or "The Greek scales".. There is a much easier way to explain it. A "Major" scale is the same as an "ionian" scale. That is If you fx: "play from C to C on the white tangents" If you do then move your finger so you play from fx: D to D, but still on only of the white tangets, then you have a Dorian scale.. an so on. As for the Lydian scale, you play from F to F on the white tangents.
singular23 2 years ago
Man really? You are a genius!
pebberbrown 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I don't understand this, but it sounds interesting; could this be explained to more of a beginner?
dMcT1000 2 years ago
Valid point, yet again. The subtitle is: "A New System of Tonal Organization".
gblaney 2 years ago
I have been loaned the George Russel's: Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization. I think it is too in-depth with the psycho-acoustical existential metaphysical transcendental historical rhetoric as well as the teaching and re-teaching of modal/tonal relationships. I agree that Lydian is the beginning and the end, but for less befuddling reasons than Mr. Russel. I am actually writing a book called: "The New Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization".
gblaney 2 years ago
Yeah well it will be interesting to see how far you get and what kind of legal hassles you will encounter from the Russells.
pebberbrown 2 years ago
I gave much reflection on the legal ramifications of the entire ordeal of the name of the book after your considerate note --- I have concluded that it should be renamed as: "Concordia Cum Veritate".
I am not worried about the content being questionable in terms of copyright infringement, as there are enough differences between Mr. Russell and myself that no court would bother entertaining such non-sense.
gblaney 2 years ago
yeah now thats a catchy title. Who would guess that it has anything to do with music?
pebberbrown 2 years ago
~Continuation:
The opposite won't sound right. The lydian degree in a diatonic sequence you won't prolongue it. It will pull to itself, and its left to you either you stay there or you use it as a color for a macrostructurely based cadence music. I remember very many songs that I heard as a kid, with no cue of music theory, and I had a special reaction when the song went to the lydian degree, a thing I learned later on. I remember thinking it sounded like a song within song. Now I know why.
AlexZyka 2 years ago 2
Lydian scale can be used to make amazing music, that doesn't sound "programmed" as much major/minor music sounds. Already resolved, it sounds "trapped" but serene and peacefull. The most delighfull sound. No wonder I have heard it applied at instances people want to denote significance like the Columbia logo or the latest dolby digital logo I saw in cinema. In pop music it is mostly used as a prolongation of, in order of occurence, the major degree, the minor degree, the mixolydian degree.
AlexZyka 2 years ago 2
Can you spell the name of the Greek musician mentioned at 7:38? thank you
bopplayer 3 years ago
Pythagoras
EnmaDarei 3 years ago
the c lydian mode is the 4th mode in the key of g maj. So does that make the lydian mode in any key the most consonant mode/scale in music composition?
folkopera50 3 years ago
The Lydian mode is based on stacking 5ths and then re-arranging the notes to make a stepwise scale. The Lydian mode is a natural arrangement of stacking 5ths and is not a MODE but the actual PARENT scale for the natural harmonic overtones that occur. Its is not a mode. Thats the difference in the thinking. There is no Lydian mode - the Lydian SCALE is the parent scale and all other modes are derived from the parent LYDIAN SCALE (not mode). This is the Lydian chromatic way of thinking.
pebberbrown 3 years ago
So does that mean that all other scales are derivatives of the lydian mode. So all the major scales are just minor versions of the lydian scale?
deadithink 2 years ago
Major scales got their name a few hundred years after the Greeks named all the modes. The Major scale is called the IONIAN mode. It is not the source of tonality, but mode V of the Lydian scale (In the Lydian Chromatic System). The Lydian system only works if everyone is all on board and not mixing Lydian and Major at the same time.
This happens when you try to work out compositions with band members who dont get it. If everyone knows, then you get that amazing cosmic angelic sound.
pebberbrown 2 years ago
major scales are NOT "minor versions" of the Lydian Scale. minor means b3. The only scales that contain a b3 are, Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian and Locrian.
pebberbrown 2 years ago
When I said minor I meant something else, sorry. I hate it when members of the band I'm in aren't in the same way of thinking that I'm in. I frequently get kicked out because of the way I treated the band. Really though, they are just a bunch of fucktards who don't even care about the music. I'm gonna be a solo artist.
deadithink 2 years ago
I know the theory of 5ths... I did a 5th last night at the gig.
wildhorsestudios1421 3 years ago
I heard
pebberbrown 3 years ago
awesome...
knighteagle22 3 years ago
Thanks - stay tuned just getting started here
pebberbrown 3 years ago
Perfect....
TheCrookedFinger 3 years ago
when you play that F natural its like an old charlie chaplin or silent movie tension moment you should be a comedian too you comic timing is priceless. This lesson is fantastic.
folkopera50 3 years ago
Stay tuned just getting started on all this
pebberbrown 3 years ago
pebber dude i love that keyboard can you tell me a bit about it dude please like how much, and were you can get one,
i dont no much about them but i love how you get the notes to sustain, you could play some cool lead guitar over that, i want to get one,
thanks dude,
sunhouse76 3 years ago
I dont know how much these are these days
its a KORG X5D which I bought at
STYLES MUSIC 909 621 0549
pebberbrown 3 years ago
It's sorta hard to hear you over the keyboard. Interesting nonetheless.
IntegratedDerivative 3 years ago
yeah so I see -we'll fix that in the next ones.
pebberbrown 3 years ago