Recently it has been predicted that German private health insurance companies will go broke between 2020 & 2025 due to epidemic slave labor wages, being implemented to make German exports “compatible” enough to destroy foreign markets. Now more & more people can’t afford private insurance anymore.
I hate people like Michael Moore who is an extremely rich person who supports policies that go against his class interests. I also hate Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, both of whom were doing very nicely under the British. Moore essentially wants Scandanavian style social democracy in a country that coul easily afford it if it did not spend more than the world combined on defence and taxed its richest to the levels that they were taxed before Reagan.Americans who hate Moore are idiots.
@foofkanon People who support Moore are idiots. Jefferson and Washington were for control of the government. Moore wants to increase the size of the federal government to where it controls us. Moore doesn't mind because he can't think for himself like many of his followers. They don't mind supporting big brother. Jefferson and Washington did well but they wanted people to be free from a controllng government. Moore wants the government to take away people's freedom. Don't compare them.
Well you know Mitt Romney is correct. Healthcare should be left to the states, and not on the Federal level.
The State of Massasschuserts passed Universal mandate that everybody had to buy insurance, that got people covered but did not lower costs.
Now the State of Vermont just passed single payer, and that is being covered by a small payroll tax when it gets established in 2017 or 2014 by the earliest.
Comparing the two ideas, I am in favor of Vermont Care.
@sphnx55 Do you often use the internet to vent your hysteria? You don't "argue with liberals" because you have nothing of value to contribute. It is evidenced by your third grade internet antics. Congratulations, you are a troll.
@FSFchannel Well, calling him fat is an argument against Moore. He wants health care reform but he isn't willing ot do the things neccessary to help out health care, like being as healthy as he can. That means eating healthy and working out. Just like he supports education but doesn't have any kind of scholarship program created or doesn't donate money to a needy school. Or he doesn't donate money to research in alternative energy to help out the environment like he supports.
@oooodin Sorry, even fat, disgusting ignorant fuckheads like you who don't know communism from hirsutism are still allowed to live. If it were up to me, you'd be euthanized for the good of the gene pool and the country.
@sphnx55 but at least he thinks and is not an imbecile. And I got to laugh at your profile name, The Sphinx a misspelt big government taxpayer funded building project.
@sphnx55 he never said it is wrong to "make money" he said that if you make money you have an obligation to society (the fuckers who helped make you rich) Not one person on this earth can claim to be wealthy through individual effort. It is only through "collective effort". And i don't care what it means to you, I just drew an analogy. Your user name is a big government building. It's like the Libertarian party wanting less government and the symbol of their ideals is 'a big government building'
@franks2732 Sphynx is the name of a cat also pinhead and i chose to spell it that way for reasons of my own .SO NO it is not after a building but a cat. Geez get a life. I stand by my comments. Michael Moore is a pig, a hypocrite, and obviously has issues of his own with self control probably suffering from 80% blockage of his arteries which might explain his delusional mentality
@sphnx55 just cause you benefit from something doesn't mean you're fucking hypocritical . I hate the current healthcare system but I still have to fucking use it, doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite.
@waltermh111 Agreed. Your point places the hammer on the nail. The arguments about "free and fair" markets is either ignorance or greed. Someone even mentioned what a model China was today for free markets. China! Children work in factories and mines for endless hours making pennies a day while the factory owner(s) profit and Walmart expands. Sick.
@waltermh111 Look out, there is an alien in your closet, they told me so over the secret harp radio array. We're coming to get you! Bwahahahaha! "Humans, it's what's for dinner"
The only way to stop the idiotic infinite growth ideology is for all debts between human beings and corporations to be forgiven all at once. Then you must get rid of fractional reserve banking and compound interests which are responsible for both modern human slavery and the destruction of the middle class. Normal debts between human beings should be honored, nothing else.
Private or Public/Government run heath care can'not be trusted. They are one in the same at the top level. We need to be more specific and just say once you get too big, you rip off the public, plain and simple. We need to spread the wealth to the people and not let any one person or corporation get too big.
That lady should have had a lawyer, her own fault. READ, always read before you sign the dotted line. She has no idea what kind of loan she even has??! People are so blooming ignorant.
@SickNTiredOfTheBS So basically, we should get rid of business because its untrustworthy. We need a lawyer just to buy a house. I agree with you. Jail the bankers.
@waltermh111 never said get rid of business. Basically amounts to that it is best to have a lawyer to interpret all that fine print b4 you sign your life away. Better safe than sorry.
Implying theres a finite amount of wealth... End The Fed and let the rich stay rich...
As long as my taxes arent going to BS like bankers or polar bears I dont care, but they are so, yeah I mad.
You stupid morons who did'nt listen the 1st time an arrested wall street insider said "It's a ponzi Scheme!" mabey you shoulda stoped having so much unfounded faith in a system you KNEW was corrupt.
Learn to take care of yourself, cause the only other people who claim They will, wont.
The U.S. CORPORATION..fake "gov" is nothing more than over 180,000 fake "gov/fund/dept" CORPORATIONS with CAFR reports and DUN&BRAD STREET ratings....
That prove it is the majority share holder of the crony-global-FORTUNE500...
So stop listening to MMoore the RICH SHILL....IF he was real, he could distinguish between "capitalism"...and the IMF scam="FED RESERVE"; and the fake "gov" crony-corporatism that has hijacked America, we the people, and the Constitution
@Sivels I agree that his means are essentially evil, because what it boils down to is he wants the government to force people to hand over money to give to other people, but i don't think he sees the violence inherent in this system, i think he's clueless to it, he just sees the ends ("free" health care for everyone).
I too want everyone to have healthcare, i just disagree on how to achieve it.
@HuxleyWasRight well, it's deeper than that... he sees it as your responsibility essentially (I certain that's how he 'feels') to provide something for others i.e. mandatory/by force, this stems from an ideology that has very little respect for you as an individual - up against "the masses" your life is "expendable" or worth less and I have no doubt that if it really came down to it he would have your life sacrificed for the sake of who he deems "more important" [insert arbitrary group].
Stop starting wars all over the world and invest that money into your people and infrastructure. Oh but I guess that a communist idea... If so, then you've lost.
3:25 "I don't know what kind of loan I have but it doesn't qualify." WOW! Even the guy next to her (husband?) Thinks WTF?! Honestly, I think these comments are all scripted to move this dialog for socialism along. Secondly that guy that made the WTF face, wasn't he the one they panned to right in the beginning, when Moore was talking he was shaking his head in agreement. What a bunch of staged BS this stuff is. It is not Capitalism that is at fault it is Big Government, Corporatism & Socialism.
Yep first lost health care from last employer then hour cuts then 35% pay cut still reduced hours then fired while they bought new cars new toys and flauted them.
To the Michel Moore haters....What in the fuck have you done!? Really!! When you get out there and put as much work into real fucking change as he does, then you can talk shit. Till then, sit at the computer and troll till your tiny hearts are content.
I grew up in Flint Michigan and watched my home town "go down the tubes". I met Micheal many years ago at The Ambassador Coney Island where I was a waitress. I've seen this whole country go down just like Flint did. I've lost my Job, My car, and my home. I've got nothing left. Being over 40 and unemployed without Medical insurance I don't have a future. I've been looking for work for over a year now. I also have a serious medical condition and can't afford treatment. I too am Angry!
Taking the profit out of healthcare would be a HUGE help indeed. Insurance and the pharmacies are soaking the life out of the country. Literally, We have speed limits for a reason.Why cant we limit the greed?Its not communism or socialism when we mail a letter in the mail. We don't allow corporations to deliver water to us for a huge markup. We let the rich pollute OUR land, water, and air for profit THEY make us sick and profit off the results.They pay OUR Representative's to make it legal.
Moore is just like a large part of America - can see problems, but doesn't understand underlying causes. Everyone focuses on profit, but the important aspect of an economy is loss. Modern laws seem to protect the big guys from failure - good for them, bad for everyone else. If we massively deregulated the healthcare industry, we'd allow competitors to get in and offer different products/services with lower costs.
Government doesn't do much right - they need to stay *far* away from my health...
@jwinter228 I do not think it is just deregulate everything, because somehow like every competitive industry they would figure out a way to cut cost that would hurt America, but it would help their company. There must be something deeper to be the root cause. In order to make a cheaper product, companies ship it off to a third world country or China to have their products made cheaply because cost of labor is high here. They put their family first and the Nation last not realizing it is the same
@4390100 China has, compared to the US, virtually no red tape and very little taxes. If the US wants to get some business back, they need to lower the corporate rate, stop picking winners and losers, and leave people alone to be entrepreneurs.
If u deregulate, how does that mean they would cut cost to hurt America? High health insurance costs are part of what's hurting America. The AMA & FDA are also huge problems we need to take power away from. Freedom works - centralized bureaucracy doesn't
@jwinter228 Deregulating the medical industry is your solution? You would then support allowing people, with no means of payment, to die in the streets (more than they do now). How about having doctors who are unlicensed perform your next surgery. How about untested medications? How about no cleaning standards? Your fear of governments coupled with your adoration of the invisible hand makes for one nasty philosophy. Deregulating the financial districts put us in the mess we have now.
@AtheistDaddy You're right. Let's have the government take care of my health since they're so good at managing everything else. Having 2 large companies run the show with no competition due to regulatory capture from the all-loving FDA and AMA is exactly what we need.
AMA licensing is a monopoly that restricts the number of doctors - you don't need to pay them $300 to have them give you medicine for the sniffles.
People dying on the streets? Play out that scenario for me. haha- so ridiculous.
@jwinter228 You are right, you don't need to pay them $300 for medicine when you have the sniffles. However, in America, you will. Other countries, you won't. Your claim that the government is the reason for high prices in healthcare is bullshit rightwing propaganda. Medicines sold in Canada, Europe and Asia cost pennies compared to what PRIVATE companies are charging in the US. The reason? Those other nations regulate what can be charged. That is but one example of how Americans get screwed.
@AtheistDaddy You don't need regulations to lower prices. You need competition so that there isn't a cartel of pharmaceutical companies with government-enforced patent laws that keep prices prohibitive.
Companies in a true market - like any other industry - have to compete on both price and quality - in healthcare, they've lobbied themselves out of this need. It's brilliant on their part, because they get people like you to ask for more regulations, which are written by the firms themselves.
@jwinter228 Competition, in your beloved "free market" gets bought out. Governments tend not to (arguably, ours is being bought). Without regulations we would have no idea what was in our food or water. Your min-archistic view is a fantasy and I'm sure you know it. Outside of Somalia, where does your world view operate?
@AtheistDaddy There's a market for knowing what's in your food - when you defer that responsibility to one corruptible govt agency, they have little incentive to do it right because their job isn't on the line - if they screw up, they get more funding. Look at FDA, SEC, USDA, etc. - its a joke.
People aren't as stupid as you think - they're just dependent on govt monopolies. Change that, and you'd have a variety of independent voluntary regulators - there's a market for safe, healthy products.
@jwinter228 You have to think outside of the current system. There are alternatives. Most of these regulators do a poor job - look at all the problems - the FDA/SEC are both bought, USDA/Dept of energy just gives away subsidies. The execs at these places work at the large firms then move into these roles - using government force to "police themselves".
People want regulation - but we're just getting crony capitalism and regs from people that have less incentive to get things right.
@jwinter228 the market regulates very well - things are just so incredibly distorted through policy and corruption that it creates huge imbalances and distortions, which make people think it's a market problem. You have to get to the source to solve the problems. It doesn't start w/ "greed" or corps or whatever... they've been around far longer than these problems.
@jwinter228 There is, indeed, a market for safe and healthy products. The problem is there is a much larger market for unsafe and unhealthy foods. Not only foods and medicine but building safety standards, child labor, segregation, women in the workplace, 40 hour work weeks and holidays. These are not given by the benevolent corporation or business. These came into being through activists and bureaucrats. Once again, I ask, where is your minimalist state that is working?
@AtheistDaddy You know what, you're right. If it wasn't for gubmint, I'd be eating watermelon with nails in it and beer with razor blades. My best friend would still be a slave, I'd be working in the cotton fields at age 7, my wife wouldn't be allowed to vote, I'd be working 65 hours a week, and I wouldn't have Columbus Day off.
So true, freedom tends to create slavery. We need men in Ivory towers blessing us with their benevolent laws. Democracy is so just of a society.
@jwinter228 The usual tactic of the fundamentalist. When you receive counter arguments and legitimist questions you cannot answer you resort to childlike fits and tantrums. If you actually read my statement it has nothing to do with "men in ivory towers". Activists were the men and women who, at times, placed their lives on the line forcing people to rethink their positions, laws and regulations. Next you can call unpatriotic, that's a good one. Maybe just say liberty and freedom a lot.
@AtheistDaddy Fundamentalist? Minimalist states that mostly protect the rule of law are rare these days. That does not mean that large governments that make promises are doing very well. Singapore and China, in many ways, are more capitalist than us. The problem with them is that they lack the social freedoms and, at least in China, the government suppresses the value of their currency. Their state is slowing their ability to develop a wealthy middle class, but it is happening slowly...
@AtheistDaddy I mean, you're right that there are very few small governments these days. However, that in no way indicates that it doesn't work. America was the place to come for over a century - people - including all of my relatives - came over here on boats so that they could do well. They didn't come for 40-hour workweeks or safety standards. Those develop when a society becomes rich. Just like a clean environment - Maslow's hierarchy of needs more accurately describes that than the state.
@AtheistDaddy Well, there was no income tax and money held its value. Women didn't work outside the home largely because it wasn't an economic necessity as it is today - which is sad.
Henry Ford paid his worker more than their workers are paid now adjusted for inflation - and they had no income tax or union.
At any given point in time, its best to view the change in quality of life from where you were to where you're going. This is likely the first generation to truly fall in living standards.
@jwinter228 There was income tax in the 1920s. There has been an income tax, of some sort, since Lincoln passed The Revenue Act in 1861. The 16th Amendment, ratified in 1913, gives Congress the authority to tax income.
Fordism was during a time when we did not have instant global communications, robotics, integrated circuits or competition.
Those that suffered through the Great Depression didn't truly fall in living standards?
@AtheistDaddy Governments, unfortunately, tend to go in cycles. The wealth that is created when they are small and leave the people alone eventually turns independent-thinking & hard-working people into people that slowly empower the state to give out benefits and cede more power. The state then assumes responsibility for many things that eventually can't afford. I'd say this accurately describes us & Europe - we're approaching a breaking point.
@jwinter228 Minimalist government has NEVER worked in a modern society. There is no proof of this ever working. Its great for a tiny community but fails miserably on a modern society. There is no regulations or even a government in Somalia since 1991 and it is horrible there. You standards of the free market some how fixing everything without any government regulation HAS NEVER WORKED. Alan Greenspan even went back on this idiotic thinking after 30+ years of assuming this. Fairy tale thinking.
@MarcoWeirdOh You *have* to be smarter than this. Take a breather, try hard to push aside any bias you have, and play out these scenarios in your head or read a different perspective. You obviously hate what I'm saying because it challenges your worldview, but think about it - deregulating the healthcare industry takes away power from the corrupt FDA, would allow different types of doctors (ie you have the sniffles, don't need a $300 visit), turn insurance into *true* insurance to lower costs.
@jwinter228 Despite the fact that the more deregulated the industry has become, the higher costs have become, less regulation would somehow, magically, reverse this trend? The significantly less expensive state health-care systems of Canada, Australia, Japan and Western Europe seem to completely undermine this line of argument (particularly when one considers that the U.S. average lifespan is lower and its infant mortality rate is higher than all of those nations). There's your "worldview".
@MarcoWeirdOh The US healthcare industry has become more and more regulated by the day. What the eff are you talking about? HMOs, Obamacare, destruction of doctor/patient relationship, paid-for-care, Medicaid/Medicare?
It's like I'm in the twilight zone. Most of the other healthcare systems are better in some ways - I hate the fact that they make decisions for you - but they're not as corporatist as ours. Ours has more hope if we can reinvigorate market mechanisms & free it up.
@jwinter228 You solution has no proof that it will do just that. So me proof that minimalist government and less regulation will do what you say in a modern society. No other society in the world suggests this. I offer proof that other countries have WAY better health-care plans (which they do, look it up) and they have much more regulation and way less privatization of the market. France is rated the best health care plan in the world with their universal plan. You could learn from this.
@MarcoWeirdOh Corps & govt are the problem. They get in bed together. You deregulate, you get other companies in the game - just like other industries - it's much healthier with more products and services - costs could be held in check.
France is complete centralized control of healthcare. They don't innovate, the have queues, and it is paid for with much higher taxes. Our system sucks - I don't deny that - I just think there's something much better than what we currently have or France
@jwinter228 The problem is that you still fail to show proof of your solutions working in another society. You just preach the "it just does" talk. I don't see it working in any way because government is in the back pocket of corporations which is why they want to deregulate the industry. This is what the republicans and libertarians preach who always have been for big business. Cutting out government is just getting rid of the middle man but keeping the same problems a float. Youre silly
@MarcoWeirdOh Which industries have the most corruption and theft? Housing, banking, healthcare, and student loans. These are the most heavily-regulated industries we have. Regulation is not only a burden on you, me, and entrepreneurs, it's a burden on posterity. The lobbyists and key players in these industries thrive by regulatory capture.
The sad thing is that I'm on your side in a way - but you're not.
@jwinter228 Still avoiding my questions I see. The fact is, you are not on my side. You think that corporations will be somehow better when all regulations on them stop from the federal level. I asked you twice now to show me how this is true in another society and you cannot show it. There are plenty of other first world countries with a better system than ours and you do not want to adapt other beneficial society's but go for a different approach that has no proof of working.
@MarcoWeirdOh The current regulations cause the problems, that's what I'm saying. Why are there only a few large health insurance companies? Why does health *insurance* pay for all of our goods and services rather than catastrophic events like true insurance? Why is the FDA in the backpocket of the industry?
The regulations are extremely beneficial to the few large corps that control the industry and keep out all of the other competitors. Don't you see that? It's a partnership.
@jwinter228 But you still argue that government is bad in general. If we elect plenty of officials to put authority BACK into what corporations can and cannot do for the benefit of the whole, then we would have something there. To say that we have to scrap a whole institution because the unregulated corporations would magically have a moral responsibility in not dicking over their work force and the little guy is retarded thinking to me. And you still offer no proof int his working.
@MarcoWeirdOh The government is force. As long as it has powers that you and I don't have, the people within it will take advantage of that power. Assuming that we can elect people to fix this is a very tall order.
What I'm really saying is that we need to get rid of HMOs and monopoly-inducing regs that eliminate competition. We also need to restore insurance to its true role - in that no law makes it so that when you have health insurance, it pays for everything.
@jwinter228 I'm sorry but I highly disagree. Putting too much faith in the corporations with a belief that they will do OSHA and the EPA's job and create jobs with decent wages and better health care is irrational thinking. The whole idea is that people with to much greed and power abuse it. Whether with a government or without it (in which the corporations will have the upper hand). We should focus on taking back our institution and not disbanding it. But i guess we will agree to disagree.
@MarcoWeirdOh People have been greedy for thousands of years. The question is- what enables it to become destructive? People's fear of loss (banks, bailouts, etc.) distort people's risk tolerance because they aren't paying for their mistakes. That's the real issue.
The most important point, however, is what is enabling them to have this "can't lose" power? The answer is government interference. In a true market, the banks, health profiteers would have gone bankrupt back in 2008.
@jwinter228 Once again your full blame always lies on the hands of government as if it is the most evil entity in the world. Norway is one of the most socialized and prosperous countries in Europe. So your argument is not always true and I once again REQUEST proof that a minimalist modern society thrives. You can't produce any. If it were great, every country would adapt. Somalia is completely unregulated since 1991. Must promotes plenty of wealth and competition across the board, right?
@MarcoWeirdOh Somalia has no rule of law and is a failed state. Has nothing to do with anarchism. It's like saying the Soviet Union was a perfect example of communism.
@sheepOG Anarchism is the destruction of the state, Anarcho Capitalist advocate for the destruction of the state. the closest country politically is Somalia. it is actually promoted as a beacon of libertarianism by both the Cato and Mises in. In fact the Mises In did a promotional video on the subject. You can view it on YT. I suppose you could say after the present famine, jobs will abound in this Anarcho Capitalist paradise LMFAO. But Somaliland that beacon of "government" is doing well
@franks2732 Well, that's easy: they never called it paradise. The country has potential though, just as any country that has no central government. I didn't find a video, so I suppose that was a lie, just like all the others before this one. Bye now. ;-)
@sheepOG i will send you the link and it was not a lie and you refused to state weather you are an "Austrian school" supporter, none the less my suspicions fall to corporate hack. And actually nothing I have said is a lie. it is all verifiable with evidence. Sadly because you are a libertarian, any evidence presented against your position is false and any in favor (no matter how slim) is gospel. Because in reality libertarianism is no more than a cult of capitalism. Koch lover
@MarcoWeirdOh I'm not addressing that because that's not what this video or my focus is about.
Listen, they could erect a non-corporate socialized system, which could be better in some respects, but it's all relative - healthcare around the world is pretty atrocious compared to what we could have regardless of the country
Either way, isn't it fair to say that comparing Somalia as my view is like me comparing North Korea as your view? We both know it's a stupid comparison esp in broad context.
@jwinter228 not atrocious if you look at other first world countries. we are not a third world country so to compare it to all, we are not bad... but we are among the worst when it comes to first world countries. Fact. I only make that comparison earlier because I think it is ass backwards to go in a completely different direction that offers no proof of it working. only large speculation. It is like I am back in the Reagan era hearing about the trickle down affect. Just doesnt add up from you.
@MarcoWeirdOh That in itself would dramatically reduce healthcare costs and give our country - with a diverse amount of needs, incomes, and health issues, to have different companies and services other than the standard prohibitively expensive system that we have.
Reducing the power of the AMA would also help to provide more doctors - especially less-skilled doctors - that are less expensive and able to deal with day-to-day issues rather than expensive primary-care physicians.
@MarcoWeirdOh I mean it's a complete cluster of special interest groups that have held the industry hostage at the expense of all of us. Single-payer systems provide centrally-managed care - but it's like going to the DMV for service. Little innovation, incentive, or ability to meet the diverse needs of the 330M people living in the country.
I just say get them out - we're smart people when we have to make decisions ourselves - we're dumb when we defer them to a third party.
Right. Like allowing company to sell across state lines....... which, on average, would only save the average consumer 5%. In fact, companies would then try and market for all of the healthy people in the country and the people with issues would see their costs rise.
Allow there to be more competitors - the monopolies that produce stuff now and run insurance aren't accountable because they're guaranteed to have your service. We also can't have insurance pay for everything - that is *not* insurance, that's why costs are so high.
Need to think about things logically - the health industry is a red-tape, government boondoggle meant to protect the wealth of big pharma, insurance companies, the FDA & AMA.
THESE COMPANIES ARE FOR PROFIT. This is healthcare we are talking about.
Costs are high because people are not getting the care they deserve and finally get care, if lucky, after issues have arisen. Costs are high because of all of the hands in an insurance policy. Costs are high because medical suppliers are charging an arm and a leg. Costs are high because companies are profting from sick humans.
@TheTruthBToldShow Prices are supply and demand - if prices are high and service is crappy - you have to ask why?
Why don't we have these problems in the electronics industry? Why do people get what they want, have almost countless choices, and have low prices? The electronics industry is has freedom. The health industry - ever since the early 1960s - has been a government-controlled nightmare.
Keep ignoring rational thought & the government & these companies will continue to screw you.
@jwinter228 remember, the FDA and other government health programs are government-controlled - the lobbyists and executives from these companies use the government as a barrier to entry so that they don't have any competition.
It's just like the banking industry. The laws are really there to protect their assets. You have to see past that.
It's a cartel. It's a hijack of your money. But you're asking them to take more of it. We need to stop empowering corps through the government.
@TheTruthBToldShow That's the issue - it's *not* oversight - it's just an enabler of monopolies. The market sorts out bad cars, bad food, and other bad things. Part of the market is voluntary independent reviewers - instead of *one* agency saying what is good or bad (FDA), why not have dozens review these to ensure that not one stone is unturned?? Think about that.
On DVD players - exactly - DVD players are less important - so why are we so willing to let the government screw up medical care?
Get real dude. Corporate influence fucks out government up, indeed. But deny the need to have a country-wide structure to protect its citizens and you start to sound ignorant as shit.
"let the consumers decide" is not based on reality. We the consumers, the vast majority of americans, have their purchased widely influenced by the product creators, the same corps that are infesting our government now. A good majority of our country believes in buying more = better life.
@TheTruthBToldShow It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a "dismal science." But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
The problems you mention may indeed be problems - but they don't stop there. What's causing over-consumption? (because you're right, it is true). What is causing corporate influence? What causes high healthcare prices? Why are there so many irrational decisions?
Think about it this way - if people are stupid and need government, isn't the government made up of people? And since they have force on their side, it's even worse.
The why is staring you in the face, buddy. ITS THE WEALTHY AND THE CORPORATIONS. Plain and simple, its greed. And that greed exists on every level.
But getting the money out of politics, getting the lobbyists and the corporations out of our legislation is step #1. Not handing them a more broken up state solution for them to eat alive.
@TheTruthBToldShow “Blaming economic crises on greed is like blaming plane crashes on gravity. Certainly planes wouldn’t crash if it weren’t for gravity. But when thousands of planes fly millions of miles every day without crashing, explaining why a particular plane crashed because of gravity gets you nowhere. Neither does talking about greed, which is constant like gravity."
You missed what I said. The story doesn't start at the wealthy and corps. That's a *consequence* of underlying problems.
@jwinter228 I mean the important thing is understanding underlying problems - not the symptoms. You don't cure cancer by giving people morphine.
You are right, thought - corps have lots of influence, markets are distorted, people's behavior are screwed up. I'm not denying that.
You have to fix the catalyst for these issues rather than just saying that the symptoms are bad - we all know that. That's how we'll make progress - but it takes time to think about these issues.
What makes Americans so ignorant on their political choices? What makes us so ignorant on consumer decisions? Its the same answer, misinformation/miseducation conducted by those with the money and, therefore, the power to do so.
@TheTruthBToldShow People defer responsibility to the government - how we eat, are educated, how we spend our money, etc. Look at the policies - we have a government propping up prices, trying to force people to consume like crazy, more centralized control of education, subsidies and laws that make certain foods more prevalent in our diets.
People used to think for themselves, now the govt is in the planning process. The government is corrupt, so there's no wonder what happens to our minds.
You keep tip-toeing around the issue. For the last time, its the wealthy and the corporations that have caused this, not the existence of a federal agency
@TheTruthBToldShow You haven't listened to what I have said. You need to open up your mind a bit to understand the difference between symptoms vs. causes. Yes, corps have lots of power that is detrimental to society - I'm not disagreeing with you. You have to be able to understand how that came to be - it's not that "corporations are people" or "glass-steagal" - it's deeper than that.
If you want to continue to be a corporate pawn by giving them more power, then go ahead - joke's on you.
@TheTruthBToldShow hes to washed up in "I love Ron Paul" and Libertarian ideas that he cannot open his mind that a government program CAN help. If we had a more strict policy on banks and wall street, then the whole problem with credit default swaps would have never occurred. This guy is just all talk with a fairy tale idea of his plan actually working. I am with you on this.
It doesn't follow logically that the solution is to turn production over to the government. I say get rid of the federal reserve, that's the institution all of these corporation grew up around. Socialism isn't a solution to a monopoly; its exchanging one monopoly for another.
congressional hmo act of 1973 started us down the road to mandated health insurance companies, and moore, in typical fashion, would have us further tangle ourselves in redtape instead of doing the smart thing and repealing all the crazy laws that got us here. liberals are intellectually shallow.
@valhala56 The big moore fucker! You can almost taste Moore's fat balls in your big mouth can't you? Your thinking about him right now aren't you? Your sitting there with tears running down your face because people here are smarter than that dumb moron Moore takes them for. Keep your Mike Moore dreams to yourself, nobody here is buying it. Moore ain't nothing more than a democrat propaganda machine. I hope he make's all your dreams come true. ???troll??? that's old already
The douche at the end who supported Bush had to have been paid by Piers to call in. Is there really anyone who could believe Bush was the best president we've ever had????
@caucasianjake His mom? All moms are like that. Your mom will tell you you are good looking, even when you look like Mike Moore. I'm sure his mommy likes him too.
As a Canadian, I'm honestly surprised that my neighbors to the south aren't appalled at the concept of a for profit health-care system. Seeing peoples lives end because they can't afford treatment, or because their insurance bails out on them is the kind of thing I'd expect from a third world nation, not America. You yanks need to put away your fears of becoming communist and accept that some things should absolutely be funded by the government.
@RedSkiesAwaitUs Yeah the US government has done such a wonderful job with the Post Office and Amtrack, and housing, and banking. Sure, let the US government do even more. There's from the government, and they're here to help!
@7667love I am a tax farm animal, mooooooo, I am free to wander around my pen. I get smacked by the farmer if I disagree with how high the fence is or if I dig a hole and bury my gold and guns, oops I mean yoke and grain.
@mersk100 I'm sure they'd make the system better than it is now. It's hard to get much worse. You guys pay 4x more for the exact same coverage. (Really it's 2x more but covering 50% of the population whilst we cover 100%).
@RedSkiesAwaitUs We pay more because government does price fixing at the behest of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and lawyers. And then government guarantees and endless supply of money to that market so of course prices are going to go up. This is basic economics, it's not rocket science.
@mersk100 A for profit system will put profit first always. In order to gain said profits, they can either charge more for the same basic services or cut the quality of said services. At-least when the government is in charge of health-care everything is provided at cost and on an equal opportunity basis. The only pros about free market healthcare is that my taxes wont pay for smokers,drug addicts and stupid people.Beyond that, making money off of human suffering is an atrocious concept.
@RedSkiesAwaitUs You're forgetting an important aspect of markets. If prices are going up, that means the opportunity for profit goes up and attracts new sellers in the market. Increased competition forces prices downwards and increases quality. Are you going to buy the more expensive crap, or the lower priced good thing? Which will capture more market share?
If you're going to think about markets, you have to think about all aspects, not just the talking points of the left.
@RedSkiesAwaitUs I am sure you've run across this example before, but what about the computer you are using? It is of much better quality with regards to capabilities than the one you had before. The nominal cost to you was very likely the same or lower. Quality up and price down - and all done with the motive to make a profit.
Do you have information if an update on 3.2 will be available in the future?
530BigBen 4 months ago
Recently it has been predicted that German private health insurance companies will go broke between 2020 & 2025 due to epidemic slave labor wages, being implemented to make German exports “compatible” enough to destroy foreign markets. Now more & more people can’t afford private insurance anymore.
Tressco 4 months ago
@Tressco Good, maybe socialized medicine will take over.
idontcare80 4 months ago
I hate people like Michael Moore who is an extremely rich person who supports policies that go against his class interests. I also hate Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, both of whom were doing very nicely under the British. Moore essentially wants Scandanavian style social democracy in a country that coul easily afford it if it did not spend more than the world combined on defence and taxed its richest to the levels that they were taxed before Reagan.Americans who hate Moore are idiots.
foofkanon 4 months ago
@foofkanon People who support Moore are idiots. Jefferson and Washington were for control of the government. Moore wants to increase the size of the federal government to where it controls us. Moore doesn't mind because he can't think for himself like many of his followers. They don't mind supporting big brother. Jefferson and Washington did well but they wanted people to be free from a controllng government. Moore wants the government to take away people's freedom. Don't compare them.
whyamimrpink78 3 months ago
@whyamimrpink78
Well you know Mitt Romney is correct. Healthcare should be left to the states, and not on the Federal level.
The State of Massasschuserts passed Universal mandate that everybody had to buy insurance, that got people covered but did not lower costs.
Now the State of Vermont just passed single payer, and that is being covered by a small payroll tax when it gets established in 2017 or 2014 by the earliest.
Comparing the two ideas, I am in favor of Vermont Care.
pluto4847 1 month ago
Michael Moore is living proof that the Big Bang theory exists. One more twinkie and a whole new galaxy will be created
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55
I cannot argue with him therefore I will call him fat.
FSFchannel 4 months ago
@FSFchannel not worth arguing with liberals- they have no rational train of thought
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 Do you often use the internet to vent your hysteria? You don't "argue with liberals" because you have nothing of value to contribute. It is evidenced by your third grade internet antics. Congratulations, you are a troll.
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy Wow look in the mirror to see all you posted. An atheist - i only pity you
sphnx55 4 months ago
@FSFchannel Well, calling him fat is an argument against Moore. He wants health care reform but he isn't willing ot do the things neccessary to help out health care, like being as healthy as he can. That means eating healthy and working out. Just like he supports education but doesn't have any kind of scholarship program created or doesn't donate money to a needy school. Or he doesn't donate money to research in alternative energy to help out the environment like he supports.
whyamimrpink78 3 months ago
fat,disgusting commies should be illegal too!
oooodin 4 months ago
@oooodin Sorry, even fat, disgusting ignorant fuckheads like you who don't know communism from hirsutism are still allowed to live. If it were up to me, you'd be euthanized for the good of the gene pool and the country.
wompeter1 4 months ago
@wompeter1 moore is that you????
ps. im a free climber so how fat can i actually be? ;-)
i know if it was up to you left wing fascist i would be euthanized because you people hate free men!
oooodin 4 months ago
@wompeter1 Euthanizing certain individuals is what communist leaders did. I am so glad that you support freedom.
whyamimrpink78 3 months ago
Michael Moore is a pig and a hypocrite
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 but at least he thinks and is not an imbecile. And I got to laugh at your profile name, The Sphinx a misspelt big government taxpayer funded building project.
franks2732 4 months ago
@franks2732 Moore thinks with his stomach and is a total hypocrite profiting off of the system he rails against.
As for my name it stands for something that means something only to to me moron.
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 he never said it is wrong to "make money" he said that if you make money you have an obligation to society (the fuckers who helped make you rich) Not one person on this earth can claim to be wealthy through individual effort. It is only through "collective effort". And i don't care what it means to you, I just drew an analogy. Your user name is a big government building. It's like the Libertarian party wanting less government and the symbol of their ideals is 'a big government building'
franks2732 4 months ago
@franks2732 Sphynx is the name of a cat also pinhead and i chose to spell it that way for reasons of my own .SO NO it is not after a building but a cat. Geez get a life. I stand by my comments. Michael Moore is a pig, a hypocrite, and obviously has issues of his own with self control probably suffering from 80% blockage of his arteries which might explain his delusional mentality
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 LMFAO
franks2732 4 months ago
@franks2732 and to Michael Moore the F in LMFAO means FAT
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 And you are an ignorant fuckhead.
wompeter1 4 months ago
@wompeter1 oh the eloquence of a 5th grader talking
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 just cause you benefit from something doesn't mean you're fucking hypocritical . I hate the current healthcare system but I still have to fucking use it, doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite.
FSFchannel 4 months ago
@FSFchannel You do not make money off of the healthcare system. Your argument is simply ridiculous and pure nonsense
sphnx55 4 months ago
@sphnx55 if you're a doctor you can. If you're a hospital worker you can, If you're a pharma company worker you can.
FSFchannel 4 months ago
@FSFchannel then if you are one of those you should be more specific in your argument. You talk in generalities which are nonsense
sphnx55 4 months ago
Capitalists never wanted competition, its a myth brought worth by repitition from austrian economics.
No businessman really wants competition because they lose money and have a chance of losing the business to such competition.
Companies have been trying to create monopolies for centuries. Often they have.
waltermh111 4 months ago in playlist More videos from MOXNEWSd0tCOM
@waltermh111 Agreed. Your point places the hammer on the nail. The arguments about "free and fair" markets is either ignorance or greed. Someone even mentioned what a model China was today for free markets. China! Children work in factories and mines for endless hours making pennies a day while the factory owner(s) profit and Walmart expands. Sick.
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@waltermh111 Look out, there is an alien in your closet, they told me so over the secret harp radio array. We're coming to get you! Bwahahahaha! "Humans, it's what's for dinner"
mersk100 4 months ago
This man is brilliant
MEpianist 4 months ago in playlist Liked
Moore cannot get any FATTER !! F'ing PIG !!
notpcone 4 months ago
The only way to stop the idiotic infinite growth ideology is for all debts between human beings and corporations to be forgiven all at once. Then you must get rid of fractional reserve banking and compound interests which are responsible for both modern human slavery and the destruction of the middle class. Normal debts between human beings should be honored, nothing else.
GeofsFilms 4 months ago
Private or Public/Government run heath care can'not be trusted. They are one in the same at the top level. We need to be more specific and just say once you get too big, you rip off the public, plain and simple. We need to spread the wealth to the people and not let any one person or corporation get too big.
nwopuppet 4 months ago
Sicko was a fantastic movie btw.
timfmr 4 months ago
I feel bad for that guy at 5:10, hold your head up sir.
timfmr 4 months ago
That lady should have had a lawyer, her own fault. READ, always read before you sign the dotted line. She has no idea what kind of loan she even has??! People are so blooming ignorant.
SickNTiredOfTheBS 4 months ago
@SickNTiredOfTheBS So basically, we should get rid of business because its untrustworthy. We need a lawyer just to buy a house. I agree with you. Jail the bankers.
waltermh111 4 months ago
@waltermh111 never said get rid of business. Basically amounts to that it is best to have a lawyer to interpret all that fine print b4 you sign your life away. Better safe than sorry.
SickNTiredOfTheBS 4 months ago
OBAMA PUPPETS...
slodok9 4 months ago
["Private ... Companies Should Be Illegal!"] - Commie Puppet Douchebag
ಠ_ಠ Wut?
WoodlandRavah 4 months ago
the 1% may only have 1% of the votes but they have 40% of the wealth.
itubeutude 4 months ago
@itubeutude
Implying theres a finite amount of wealth... End The Fed and let the rich stay rich...
As long as my taxes arent going to BS like bankers or polar bears I dont care, but they are so, yeah I mad.
You stupid morons who did'nt listen the 1st time an arrested wall street insider said "It's a ponzi Scheme!" mabey you shoulda stoped having so much unfounded faith in a system you KNEW was corrupt.
Learn to take care of yourself, cause the only other people who claim They will, wont.
WoodlandRavah 4 months ago
@itubeutude yes 1% have 40, but 0.0001 have 35%, offshore super rich want to tax employers to bail out banks, do t u see that
udical 4 months ago
The U.S. CORPORATION..fake "gov" is nothing more than over 180,000 fake "gov/fund/dept" CORPORATIONS with CAFR reports and DUN&BRAD STREET ratings....
That prove it is the majority share holder of the crony-global-FORTUNE500...
So stop listening to MMoore the RICH SHILL....IF he was real, he could distinguish between "capitalism"...and the IMF scam="FED RESERVE"; and the fake "gov" crony-corporatism that has hijacked America, we the people, and the Constitution
"UCC/IMF/ADMIRALTY LAW" = D.C.
IronRangeSurvival 4 months ago
Bush possibly the best president ))) oh those gun clinging fan boys.
vavan100 4 months ago
He's so fucking ignorant about economy and pretty much anything one can think of. "Soviet style capitalism"? Plz stop breathing now!
HeilLoki 4 months ago
I think Moores heart is in the right place, but he's clueless on economic issues, dangerously clueless.
HuxleyWasRight 4 months ago
@HuxleyWasRight his heart is not at the right place. His worldvies is marxist in nature and false/irrational.
Sivels 4 months ago
@Sivels I agree that his means are essentially evil, because what it boils down to is he wants the government to force people to hand over money to give to other people, but i don't think he sees the violence inherent in this system, i think he's clueless to it, he just sees the ends ("free" health care for everyone).
I too want everyone to have healthcare, i just disagree on how to achieve it.
HuxleyWasRight 4 months ago
@HuxleyWasRight well, it's deeper than that... he sees it as your responsibility essentially (I certain that's how he 'feels') to provide something for others i.e. mandatory/by force, this stems from an ideology that has very little respect for you as an individual - up against "the masses" your life is "expendable" or worth less and I have no doubt that if it really came down to it he would have your life sacrificed for the sake of who he deems "more important" [insert arbitrary group].
Sivels 4 months ago
moore..besides communist..you are a moron
cynthiabaudino 4 months ago
@cynthiabaudino your correct he has fell in love with canada without studying its health system.
Tethloach1 4 months ago
Here we go with all the PROPAGANDA FOR MORE GOV FAKE HEALTH CARE.....
Make sure to ask M. MOORE THE RICH SHILL about it all....
The U.S. CORPORATION is not America, we the people, or Constitutional rule of law...it is UCC, IMF-fed reserve, and ADMIRALTY LAW....
Out of all the news, we get M.M. shill around here..useful idiot
IronRangeSurvival 4 months ago
Stop starting wars all over the world and invest that money into your people and infrastructure. Oh but I guess that a communist idea... If so, then you've lost.
ThePositiveAussie 4 months ago
3:25 "I don't know what kind of loan I have but it doesn't qualify." WOW! Even the guy next to her (husband?) Thinks WTF?! Honestly, I think these comments are all scripted to move this dialog for socialism along. Secondly that guy that made the WTF face, wasn't he the one they panned to right in the beginning, when Moore was talking he was shaking his head in agreement. What a bunch of staged BS this stuff is. It is not Capitalism that is at fault it is Big Government, Corporatism & Socialism.
NeptunesTrident 4 months ago
Why is this fat wanker chatting shit. He made loads of Halliburton then lied. He's a fucking hypocrite.
dips018 4 months ago
Why is my blood-pressure going up when Moore talks?
Weapon01 4 months ago
@Weapon01 Because you're blinded by hatred?
Chris153758 4 months ago
@Chris153758 Eeh, I wouldn't call it hatred... maybe aggravation and annoyance, but not hatred.
Weapon01 4 months ago
Yep first lost health care from last employer then hour cuts then 35% pay cut still reduced hours then fired while they bought new cars new toys and flauted them.
AnonMassEcho 4 months ago
To the Michel Moore haters....What in the fuck have you done!? Really!! When you get out there and put as much work into real fucking change as he does, then you can talk shit. Till then, sit at the computer and troll till your tiny hearts are content.
RacerEckss 4 months ago
@RacerEckss He changed his bank account, that's for sure.
mersk100 4 months ago
I grew up in Flint Michigan and watched my home town "go down the tubes". I met Micheal many years ago at The Ambassador Coney Island where I was a waitress. I've seen this whole country go down just like Flint did. I've lost my Job, My car, and my home. I've got nothing left. Being over 40 and unemployed without Medical insurance I don't have a future. I've been looking for work for over a year now. I also have a serious medical condition and can't afford treatment. I too am Angry!
woodtickrae 4 months ago
@woodtickrae
You can thank Obama when you're thrown in jail for not being able to afford Medical Insurance but hes forcing you to get it or go to jail.
Garlannd 4 months ago
God this man is so retarded.
dieyoung 4 months ago
Taking the profit out of healthcare would be a HUGE help indeed. Insurance and the pharmacies are soaking the life out of the country. Literally, We have speed limits for a reason.Why cant we limit the greed?Its not communism or socialism when we mail a letter in the mail. We don't allow corporations to deliver water to us for a huge markup. We let the rich pollute OUR land, water, and air for profit THEY make us sick and profit off the results.They pay OUR Representative's to make it legal.
qixxxz 4 months ago
EAT THE RICH. Although they taste like shit.
ubtri 4 months ago 2
Nutjob.
RastaLulz 4 months ago
The first woman speaking could have been in the Human Centipad. She didn't read it!
sigmapsicharlie 4 months ago
Stand Alone Insurance should be illegal
Allow hospitals to sell insurance that way that surplus goes towards REAL Healthcare not executive compensation.
Salvysahagun 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Moore is just like a large part of America - can see problems, but doesn't understand underlying causes. Everyone focuses on profit, but the important aspect of an economy is loss. Modern laws seem to protect the big guys from failure - good for them, bad for everyone else. If we massively deregulated the healthcare industry, we'd allow competitors to get in and offer different products/services with lower costs.
Government doesn't do much right - they need to stay *far* away from my health...
jwinter228 4 months ago 5
@jwinter228 I do not think it is just deregulate everything, because somehow like every competitive industry they would figure out a way to cut cost that would hurt America, but it would help their company. There must be something deeper to be the root cause. In order to make a cheaper product, companies ship it off to a third world country or China to have their products made cheaply because cost of labor is high here. They put their family first and the Nation last not realizing it is the same
4390100 4 months ago
@4390100 China has, compared to the US, virtually no red tape and very little taxes. If the US wants to get some business back, they need to lower the corporate rate, stop picking winners and losers, and leave people alone to be entrepreneurs.
If u deregulate, how does that mean they would cut cost to hurt America? High health insurance costs are part of what's hurting America. The AMA & FDA are also huge problems we need to take power away from. Freedom works - centralized bureaucracy doesn't
jwinter228 4 months ago
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AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@jwinter228 Deregulating the medical industry is your solution? You would then support allowing people, with no means of payment, to die in the streets (more than they do now). How about having doctors who are unlicensed perform your next surgery. How about untested medications? How about no cleaning standards? Your fear of governments coupled with your adoration of the invisible hand makes for one nasty philosophy. Deregulating the financial districts put us in the mess we have now.
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy Well said!!!!
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy You're right. Let's have the government take care of my health since they're so good at managing everything else. Having 2 large companies run the show with no competition due to regulatory capture from the all-loving FDA and AMA is exactly what we need.
AMA licensing is a monopoly that restricts the number of doctors - you don't need to pay them $300 to have them give you medicine for the sniffles.
People dying on the streets? Play out that scenario for me. haha- so ridiculous.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 You are right, you don't need to pay them $300 for medicine when you have the sniffles. However, in America, you will. Other countries, you won't. Your claim that the government is the reason for high prices in healthcare is bullshit rightwing propaganda. Medicines sold in Canada, Europe and Asia cost pennies compared to what PRIVATE companies are charging in the US. The reason? Those other nations regulate what can be charged. That is but one example of how Americans get screwed.
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy You don't need regulations to lower prices. You need competition so that there isn't a cartel of pharmaceutical companies with government-enforced patent laws that keep prices prohibitive.
Companies in a true market - like any other industry - have to compete on both price and quality - in healthcare, they've lobbied themselves out of this need. It's brilliant on their part, because they get people like you to ask for more regulations, which are written by the firms themselves.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 Competition, in your beloved "free market" gets bought out. Governments tend not to (arguably, ours is being bought). Without regulations we would have no idea what was in our food or water. Your min-archistic view is a fantasy and I'm sure you know it. Outside of Somalia, where does your world view operate?
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy There's a market for knowing what's in your food - when you defer that responsibility to one corruptible govt agency, they have little incentive to do it right because their job isn't on the line - if they screw up, they get more funding. Look at FDA, SEC, USDA, etc. - its a joke.
People aren't as stupid as you think - they're just dependent on govt monopolies. Change that, and you'd have a variety of independent voluntary regulators - there's a market for safe, healthy products.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 You have to think outside of the current system. There are alternatives. Most of these regulators do a poor job - look at all the problems - the FDA/SEC are both bought, USDA/Dept of energy just gives away subsidies. The execs at these places work at the large firms then move into these roles - using government force to "police themselves".
People want regulation - but we're just getting crony capitalism and regs from people that have less incentive to get things right.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 the market regulates very well - things are just so incredibly distorted through policy and corruption that it creates huge imbalances and distortions, which make people think it's a market problem. You have to get to the source to solve the problems. It doesn't start w/ "greed" or corps or whatever... they've been around far longer than these problems.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 There is, indeed, a market for safe and healthy products. The problem is there is a much larger market for unsafe and unhealthy foods. Not only foods and medicine but building safety standards, child labor, segregation, women in the workplace, 40 hour work weeks and holidays. These are not given by the benevolent corporation or business. These came into being through activists and bureaucrats. Once again, I ask, where is your minimalist state that is working?
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy You know what, you're right. If it wasn't for gubmint, I'd be eating watermelon with nails in it and beer with razor blades. My best friend would still be a slave, I'd be working in the cotton fields at age 7, my wife wouldn't be allowed to vote, I'd be working 65 hours a week, and I wouldn't have Columbus Day off.
So true, freedom tends to create slavery. We need men in Ivory towers blessing us with their benevolent laws. Democracy is so just of a society.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 The usual tactic of the fundamentalist. When you receive counter arguments and legitimist questions you cannot answer you resort to childlike fits and tantrums. If you actually read my statement it has nothing to do with "men in ivory towers". Activists were the men and women who, at times, placed their lives on the line forcing people to rethink their positions, laws and regulations. Next you can call unpatriotic, that's a good one. Maybe just say liberty and freedom a lot.
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy well said
franks2732 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy Fundamentalist? Minimalist states that mostly protect the rule of law are rare these days. That does not mean that large governments that make promises are doing very well. Singapore and China, in many ways, are more capitalist than us. The problem with them is that they lack the social freedoms and, at least in China, the government suppresses the value of their currency. Their state is slowing their ability to develop a wealthy middle class, but it is happening slowly...
jwinter228 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy I mean, you're right that there are very few small governments these days. However, that in no way indicates that it doesn't work. America was the place to come for over a century - people - including all of my relatives - came over here on boats so that they could do well. They didn't come for 40-hour workweeks or safety standards. Those develop when a society becomes rich. Just like a clean environment - Maslow's hierarchy of needs more accurately describes that than the state.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 Are you advocating America returns itself to how it did business in the early 1900's?
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy Well, there was no income tax and money held its value. Women didn't work outside the home largely because it wasn't an economic necessity as it is today - which is sad.
Henry Ford paid his worker more than their workers are paid now adjusted for inflation - and they had no income tax or union.
At any given point in time, its best to view the change in quality of life from where you were to where you're going. This is likely the first generation to truly fall in living standards.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 There was income tax in the 1920s. There has been an income tax, of some sort, since Lincoln passed The Revenue Act in 1861. The 16th Amendment, ratified in 1913, gives Congress the authority to tax income.
Fordism was during a time when we did not have instant global communications, robotics, integrated circuits or competition.
Those that suffered through the Great Depression didn't truly fall in living standards?
We should be moving forward not back.
AtheistDaddy 4 months ago
@AtheistDaddy Governments, unfortunately, tend to go in cycles. The wealth that is created when they are small and leave the people alone eventually turns independent-thinking & hard-working people into people that slowly empower the state to give out benefits and cede more power. The state then assumes responsibility for many things that eventually can't afford. I'd say this accurately describes us & Europe - we're approaching a breaking point.
jwinter228 4 months ago
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MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jwinter228 Minimalist government has NEVER worked in a modern society. There is no proof of this ever working. Its great for a tiny community but fails miserably on a modern society. There is no regulations or even a government in Somalia since 1991 and it is horrible there. You standards of the free market some how fixing everything without any government regulation HAS NEVER WORKED. Alan Greenspan even went back on this idiotic thinking after 30+ years of assuming this. Fairy tale thinking.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh You *have* to be smarter than this. Take a breather, try hard to push aside any bias you have, and play out these scenarios in your head or read a different perspective. You obviously hate what I'm saying because it challenges your worldview, but think about it - deregulating the healthcare industry takes away power from the corrupt FDA, would allow different types of doctors (ie you have the sniffles, don't need a $300 visit), turn insurance into *true* insurance to lower costs.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 Despite the fact that the more deregulated the industry has become, the higher costs have become, less regulation would somehow, magically, reverse this trend? The significantly less expensive state health-care systems of Canada, Australia, Japan and Western Europe seem to completely undermine this line of argument (particularly when one considers that the U.S. average lifespan is lower and its infant mortality rate is higher than all of those nations). There's your "worldview".
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh The US healthcare industry has become more and more regulated by the day. What the eff are you talking about? HMOs, Obamacare, destruction of doctor/patient relationship, paid-for-care, Medicaid/Medicare?
It's like I'm in the twilight zone. Most of the other healthcare systems are better in some ways - I hate the fact that they make decisions for you - but they're not as corporatist as ours. Ours has more hope if we can reinvigorate market mechanisms & free it up.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 You solution has no proof that it will do just that. So me proof that minimalist government and less regulation will do what you say in a modern society. No other society in the world suggests this. I offer proof that other countries have WAY better health-care plans (which they do, look it up) and they have much more regulation and way less privatization of the market. France is rated the best health care plan in the world with their universal plan. You could learn from this.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh Corps & govt are the problem. They get in bed together. You deregulate, you get other companies in the game - just like other industries - it's much healthier with more products and services - costs could be held in check.
France is complete centralized control of healthcare. They don't innovate, the have queues, and it is paid for with much higher taxes. Our system sucks - I don't deny that - I just think there's something much better than what we currently have or France
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 The problem is that you still fail to show proof of your solutions working in another society. You just preach the "it just does" talk. I don't see it working in any way because government is in the back pocket of corporations which is why they want to deregulate the industry. This is what the republicans and libertarians preach who always have been for big business. Cutting out government is just getting rid of the middle man but keeping the same problems a float. Youre silly
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh Which industries have the most corruption and theft? Housing, banking, healthcare, and student loans. These are the most heavily-regulated industries we have. Regulation is not only a burden on you, me, and entrepreneurs, it's a burden on posterity. The lobbyists and key players in these industries thrive by regulatory capture.
The sad thing is that I'm on your side in a way - but you're not.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 Still avoiding my questions I see. The fact is, you are not on my side. You think that corporations will be somehow better when all regulations on them stop from the federal level. I asked you twice now to show me how this is true in another society and you cannot show it. There are plenty of other first world countries with a better system than ours and you do not want to adapt other beneficial society's but go for a different approach that has no proof of working.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh The current regulations cause the problems, that's what I'm saying. Why are there only a few large health insurance companies? Why does health *insurance* pay for all of our goods and services rather than catastrophic events like true insurance? Why is the FDA in the backpocket of the industry?
The regulations are extremely beneficial to the few large corps that control the industry and keep out all of the other competitors. Don't you see that? It's a partnership.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 But you still argue that government is bad in general. If we elect plenty of officials to put authority BACK into what corporations can and cannot do for the benefit of the whole, then we would have something there. To say that we have to scrap a whole institution because the unregulated corporations would magically have a moral responsibility in not dicking over their work force and the little guy is retarded thinking to me. And you still offer no proof int his working.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh The government is force. As long as it has powers that you and I don't have, the people within it will take advantage of that power. Assuming that we can elect people to fix this is a very tall order.
What I'm really saying is that we need to get rid of HMOs and monopoly-inducing regs that eliminate competition. We also need to restore insurance to its true role - in that no law makes it so that when you have health insurance, it pays for everything.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 I'm sorry but I highly disagree. Putting too much faith in the corporations with a belief that they will do OSHA and the EPA's job and create jobs with decent wages and better health care is irrational thinking. The whole idea is that people with to much greed and power abuse it. Whether with a government or without it (in which the corporations will have the upper hand). We should focus on taking back our institution and not disbanding it. But i guess we will agree to disagree.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh People have been greedy for thousands of years. The question is- what enables it to become destructive? People's fear of loss (banks, bailouts, etc.) distort people's risk tolerance because they aren't paying for their mistakes. That's the real issue.
The most important point, however, is what is enabling them to have this "can't lose" power? The answer is government interference. In a true market, the banks, health profiteers would have gone bankrupt back in 2008.
jwinter228 4 months ago
Comment removed
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@jwinter228 Once again your full blame always lies on the hands of government as if it is the most evil entity in the world. Norway is one of the most socialized and prosperous countries in Europe. So your argument is not always true and I once again REQUEST proof that a minimalist modern society thrives. You can't produce any. If it were great, every country would adapt. Somalia is completely unregulated since 1991. Must promotes plenty of wealth and competition across the board, right?
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh Somalia has no rule of law and is a failed state. Has nothing to do with anarchism. It's like saying the Soviet Union was a perfect example of communism.
sheepOG 4 months ago
@sheepOG Anarchism is the destruction of the state, Anarcho Capitalist advocate for the destruction of the state. the closest country politically is Somalia. it is actually promoted as a beacon of libertarianism by both the Cato and Mises in. In fact the Mises In did a promotional video on the subject. You can view it on YT. I suppose you could say after the present famine, jobs will abound in this Anarcho Capitalist paradise LMFAO. But Somaliland that beacon of "government" is doing well
franks2732 4 months ago
@franks2732 Well, that's easy: they never called it paradise. The country has potential though, just as any country that has no central government. I didn't find a video, so I suppose that was a lie, just like all the others before this one. Bye now. ;-)
sheepOG 4 months ago
@sheepOG i will send you the link and it was not a lie and you refused to state weather you are an "Austrian school" supporter, none the less my suspicions fall to corporate hack. And actually nothing I have said is a lie. it is all verifiable with evidence. Sadly because you are a libertarian, any evidence presented against your position is false and any in favor (no matter how slim) is gospel. Because in reality libertarianism is no more than a cult of capitalism. Koch lover
franks2732 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh I'm not addressing that because that's not what this video or my focus is about.
Listen, they could erect a non-corporate socialized system, which could be better in some respects, but it's all relative - healthcare around the world is pretty atrocious compared to what we could have regardless of the country
Either way, isn't it fair to say that comparing Somalia as my view is like me comparing North Korea as your view? We both know it's a stupid comparison esp in broad context.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 not atrocious if you look at other first world countries. we are not a third world country so to compare it to all, we are not bad... but we are among the worst when it comes to first world countries. Fact. I only make that comparison earlier because I think it is ass backwards to go in a completely different direction that offers no proof of it working. only large speculation. It is like I am back in the Reagan era hearing about the trickle down affect. Just doesnt add up from you.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh That in itself would dramatically reduce healthcare costs and give our country - with a diverse amount of needs, incomes, and health issues, to have different companies and services other than the standard prohibitively expensive system that we have.
Reducing the power of the AMA would also help to provide more doctors - especially less-skilled doctors - that are less expensive and able to deal with day-to-day issues rather than expensive primary-care physicians.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@MarcoWeirdOh I mean it's a complete cluster of special interest groups that have held the industry hostage at the expense of all of us. Single-payer systems provide centrally-managed care - but it's like going to the DMV for service. Little innovation, incentive, or ability to meet the diverse needs of the 330M people living in the country.
I just say get them out - we're smart people when we have to make decisions ourselves - we're dumb when we defer them to a third party.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 MOORE is a fucking RICH SHILL BITCH...snap out of it...
The U.S. CORPORATION..14th amendment...is a CAFR reporting, fake "gov", CORPORATION that owns the majority shares of the crony-global-FORTUNE500.
Does that sound like America to you?
IronRangeSurvival 4 months ago
@IronRangeSurvival Troll. Or a biased moron.
restlesspride666 4 months ago
@restlesspride666 I think you must be a shill, moron, or both...Comprehension is lost on you a lot huh..
IronRangeSurvival 4 months ago
@jwinter228
Right. Like allowing company to sell across state lines....... which, on average, would only save the average consumer 5%. In fact, companies would then try and market for all of the healthy people in the country and the people with issues would see their costs rise.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow Your economic logic... makes me sad.
Allow there to be more competitors - the monopolies that produce stuff now and run insurance aren't accountable because they're guaranteed to have your service. We also can't have insurance pay for everything - that is *not* insurance, that's why costs are so high.
Need to think about things logically - the health industry is a red-tape, government boondoggle meant to protect the wealth of big pharma, insurance companies, the FDA & AMA.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
Talk about a failure in logic.
THESE COMPANIES ARE FOR PROFIT. This is healthcare we are talking about.
Costs are high because people are not getting the care they deserve and finally get care, if lucky, after issues have arisen. Costs are high because of all of the hands in an insurance policy. Costs are high because medical suppliers are charging an arm and a leg. Costs are high because companies are profting from sick humans.
Single-payer, the only solution.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow Prices are supply and demand - if prices are high and service is crappy - you have to ask why?
Why don't we have these problems in the electronics industry? Why do people get what they want, have almost countless choices, and have low prices? The electronics industry is has freedom. The health industry - ever since the early 1960s - has been a government-controlled nightmare.
Keep ignoring rational thought & the government & these companies will continue to screw you.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 remember, the FDA and other government health programs are government-controlled - the lobbyists and executives from these companies use the government as a barrier to entry so that they don't have any competition.
It's just like the banking industry. The laws are really there to protect their assets. You have to see past that.
It's a cartel. It's a hijack of your money. But you're asking them to take more of it. We need to stop empowering corps through the government.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
Right. We need to take corporate influence out of the government. But that doesn't mean we need to take government oversight away.
Your comparison of a dvd-player to a heart surgery is flawed as fuck. Not even gonna touch it.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow That's the issue - it's *not* oversight - it's just an enabler of monopolies. The market sorts out bad cars, bad food, and other bad things. Part of the market is voluntary independent reviewers - instead of *one* agency saying what is good or bad (FDA), why not have dozens review these to ensure that not one stone is unturned?? Think about that.
On DVD players - exactly - DVD players are less important - so why are we so willing to let the government screw up medical care?
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
Get real dude. Corporate influence fucks out government up, indeed. But deny the need to have a country-wide structure to protect its citizens and you start to sound ignorant as shit.
"let the consumers decide" is not based on reality. We the consumers, the vast majority of americans, have their purchased widely influenced by the product creators, the same corps that are infesting our government now. A good majority of our country believes in buying more = better life.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow
Holy shitty spelling.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a "dismal science." But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
Is this what your shrink told you?
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow You have to keep asking the question "why?"
The problems you mention may indeed be problems - but they don't stop there. What's causing over-consumption? (because you're right, it is true). What is causing corporate influence? What causes high healthcare prices? Why are there so many irrational decisions?
Think about it this way - if people are stupid and need government, isn't the government made up of people? And since they have force on their side, it's even worse.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
The why is staring you in the face, buddy. ITS THE WEALTHY AND THE CORPORATIONS. Plain and simple, its greed. And that greed exists on every level.
But getting the money out of politics, getting the lobbyists and the corporations out of our legislation is step #1. Not handing them a more broken up state solution for them to eat alive.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow “Blaming economic crises on greed is like blaming plane crashes on gravity. Certainly planes wouldn’t crash if it weren’t for gravity. But when thousands of planes fly millions of miles every day without crashing, explaining why a particular plane crashed because of gravity gets you nowhere. Neither does talking about greed, which is constant like gravity."
You missed what I said. The story doesn't start at the wealthy and corps. That's a *consequence* of underlying problems.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228 I mean the important thing is understanding underlying problems - not the symptoms. You don't cure cancer by giving people morphine.
You are right, thought - corps have lots of influence, markets are distorted, people's behavior are screwed up. I'm not denying that.
You have to fix the catalyst for these issues rather than just saying that the symptoms are bad - we all know that. That's how we'll make progress - but it takes time to think about these issues.
Make sense?
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
Yes it makes sense and my solution still applies.
What makes Americans so ignorant on their political choices? What makes us so ignorant on consumer decisions? Its the same answer, misinformation/miseducation conducted by those with the money and, therefore, the power to do so.
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow People defer responsibility to the government - how we eat, are educated, how we spend our money, etc. Look at the policies - we have a government propping up prices, trying to force people to consume like crazy, more centralized control of education, subsidies and laws that make certain foods more prevalent in our diets.
People used to think for themselves, now the govt is in the planning process. The government is corrupt, so there's no wonder what happens to our minds.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@jwinter228
You keep tip-toeing around the issue. For the last time, its the wealthy and the corporations that have caused this, not the existence of a federal agency
TheTruthBToldShow 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow You haven't listened to what I have said. You need to open up your mind a bit to understand the difference between symptoms vs. causes. Yes, corps have lots of power that is detrimental to society - I'm not disagreeing with you. You have to be able to understand how that came to be - it's not that "corporations are people" or "glass-steagal" - it's deeper than that.
If you want to continue to be a corporate pawn by giving them more power, then go ahead - joke's on you.
jwinter228 4 months ago
@TheTruthBToldShow hes to washed up in "I love Ron Paul" and Libertarian ideas that he cannot open his mind that a government program CAN help. If we had a more strict policy on banks and wall street, then the whole problem with credit default swaps would have never occurred. This guy is just all talk with a fairy tale idea of his plan actually working. I am with you on this.
MarcoWeirdOh 4 months ago
It doesn't follow logically that the solution is to turn production over to the government. I say get rid of the federal reserve, that's the institution all of these corporation grew up around. Socialism isn't a solution to a monopoly; its exchanging one monopoly for another.
CoverFireHero 4 months ago
congressional hmo act of 1973 started us down the road to mandated health insurance companies, and moore, in typical fashion, would have us further tangle ourselves in redtape instead of doing the smart thing and repealing all the crazy laws that got us here. liberals are intellectually shallow.
danogzilla 4 months ago
Sad , Us the People are Going threw It , Bad spending to Ponzi Schemes .
recount09 4 months ago in playlist recount09's favorites
@1234dpeck Yes and your momma should have aborted you.
valhala56 4 months ago
@valhala56 The big moore fucker! You can almost taste Moore's fat balls in your big mouth can't you? Your thinking about him right now aren't you? Your sitting there with tears running down your face because people here are smarter than that dumb moron Moore takes them for. Keep your Mike Moore dreams to yourself, nobody here is buying it. Moore ain't nothing more than a democrat propaganda machine. I hope he make's all your dreams come true. ???troll??? that's old already
7667love 4 months ago
The douche at the end who supported Bush had to have been paid by Piers to call in. Is there really anyone who could believe Bush was the best president we've ever had????
caucasianjake 4 months ago
@caucasianjake His mom? All moms are like that. Your mom will tell you you are good looking, even when you look like Mike Moore. I'm sure his mommy likes him too.
mersk100 4 months ago
Great idea Mike, let's let our corrupt politicans have even more control over our lives.
mersk100 4 months ago
As a Canadian, I'm honestly surprised that my neighbors to the south aren't appalled at the concept of a for profit health-care system. Seeing peoples lives end because they can't afford treatment, or because their insurance bails out on them is the kind of thing I'd expect from a third world nation, not America. You yanks need to put away your fears of becoming communist and accept that some things should absolutely be funded by the government.
RedSkiesAwaitUs 4 months ago
@RedSkiesAwaitUs totally agree i dont understand it either
TheRevolutionCanada 4 months ago
@RedSkiesAwaitUs Yeah the US government has done such a wonderful job with the Post Office and Amtrack, and housing, and banking. Sure, let the US government do even more. There's from the government, and they're here to help!
mersk100 4 months ago
@mersk100 Don't forget how free we are. We can do whatever we want anytime we want to do it.......
LoL
7667love 4 months ago
@7667love I am a tax farm animal, mooooooo, I am free to wander around my pen. I get smacked by the farmer if I disagree with how high the fence is or if I dig a hole and bury my gold and guns, oops I mean yoke and grain.
mersk100 4 months ago
@mersk100 I'm sure they'd make the system better than it is now. It's hard to get much worse. You guys pay 4x more for the exact same coverage. (Really it's 2x more but covering 50% of the population whilst we cover 100%).
RedSkiesAwaitUs 4 months ago
@RedSkiesAwaitUs We pay more because government does price fixing at the behest of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and lawyers. And then government guarantees and endless supply of money to that market so of course prices are going to go up. This is basic economics, it's not rocket science.
mersk100 4 months ago
@mersk100 A for profit system will put profit first always. In order to gain said profits, they can either charge more for the same basic services or cut the quality of said services. At-least when the government is in charge of health-care everything is provided at cost and on an equal opportunity basis. The only pros about free market healthcare is that my taxes wont pay for smokers,drug addicts and stupid people.Beyond that, making money off of human suffering is an atrocious concept.
RedSkiesAwaitUs 4 months ago
@RedSkiesAwaitUs You're forgetting an important aspect of markets. If prices are going up, that means the opportunity for profit goes up and attracts new sellers in the market. Increased competition forces prices downwards and increases quality. Are you going to buy the more expensive crap, or the lower priced good thing? Which will capture more market share?
If you're going to think about markets, you have to think about all aspects, not just the talking points of the left.
mersk100 4 months ago
@RedSkiesAwaitUs I am sure you've run across this example before, but what about the computer you are using? It is of much better quality with regards to capabilities than the one you had before. The nominal cost to you was very likely the same or lower. Quality up and price down - and all done with the motive to make a profit.
mersk100 4 months ago