You have a choice, and that's what makes the tax voluntary.
You don't have to have a job either. That is totally voluntary as well. You can become very rich without receiving wages from anyone. Your income can come from dividends and capital gains which are taxed at a much lower rate of 15%
According to the IRS, income taxes are completely voluntary. Everyone computes their own income tax liability and sends the amount owed to the government completely voluntarely. There is no threat here at all.
You don't even have to work if you don't want to. You don't need a job. You can get your money from other sources like capital gains or dividends. Think about this: You don't have to pay capital gains until you sell (or realize the gain). Why would you sell an productive investment?
You'd like to see the government work on a voluntary basis? Fine.
Just don't complain when the police do so too. Or fire fighters. Or the postal service. Or your roads. Or the FDA. Or any number of countless other services or facilities that are funded by taxes.
Taxes are the cost of living in a society with all the things we take for granted. If you don't like it, live in a shack in the wilderness. Maybe then you could complain about the government extorting money out of you.
I don't think you understand the free rider principle. why would i contribute to something when i can consume it for free, regardless of how good it is. Without government intervention the market for public goods fails to exist.
this guy is funny at his core. I always smile when i listen to him. But he is cool and smart and does make sense but in a funny way. I give you 5 stars
This is naiive. If it were all donation based their would be a massive free loader affect. Should those who do not donate be entitled to police and military protection as well?
It's just a silly argument. Forceful taxation is required, but it should be kept to a minimum!
I support the FairTax. Prices won't rise, because taxes are only paid by consumers, and the FairTax replaces tax, not add to tax. The net change in tax revenue will be zero, so prices will remain constant. The poor will be totally untaxed, by the prebate, and 350 billion $ will be eliminated in overhead
expenses. OH! And criminals and illegals will finally be paying taxes. Your purchasing power ill rise, under the FairTax.
if taxation is extortion, then what would you call condo dues? parking lot fees? Now i know you would say "you donnt havta live in a condo" but if you opened the flood gates i can assure you private companies(witch would havta fill the void of government)would put in much more expensive & unjust rules of payment than taxation. Read history you fucking idiot, we did this already for years! and guess what the articales of the confederation failed. you just dumb as shit.
Fine then, you donate first. I am all for a consumption taxes or (2nd choice) a flat rate of 10% (after a personal deduction of $5000 per person in the family or a single person) on ALL income. No other deductions allowed on anything.
Sorry this might work in the land of Unicorns and Rose gardens but the rest of us have to live in the real world. You make some valid points but there are some things in life have to accept as being necessary and some type of Tax is one of them. Go back and listen to Peter's video again and try to pay attention this time.
Your ideas are great for an ideal world. It is just to bad and ideal world won't happen. Personally I don't want to see this idea your proposing put into effect.
If you didn't know already we vote in our representatives in the first place on their promises to spend money wisely.
Besides we chose to put into place a government that can distort because we felt that we as people wouldn't do enough. We need someone to have a job to make sure we get enough money for what the market doesn't produce.
A voluntary tax will never happen and is ridiculous to even ponder. We already have a Consumption tax but abolishment of the Income tax should be instituted immediately. This will increase ten fold the amount of money govt will take in. As Schiff points out, money saved is money invested in the economy. However, we'd better wait until present govt is "overthrown" for a fully functioning Constitution lovin' govt; when each man's vote is a vote fully counted. We should become a democracy first.
Interesting idea but I have to ask... what happens when people simply don't give the government any money? I mean its all well and good to think that people are smart enough to recognize the need to be protected from foreign powers but thats not something that confronts the average citizen in day to day life. We need some mandatory form of taxation.
@RandomSymbol It's all well and good to think that people are smart enough to recognize their car needs an oil change every now and then, but it's not something that confronts the average citizen in day to day life. We need to hold guns up against car owners heads and force them to have oil changes.
Disagree. With a consumption tax, the "gun" is pointed at the seller and saying, "tack-on this amount of money to your products." So no, it's not saying some version of "your money or your life", it's rather saying, to the sellers, "attach this amount of money to the cost of your products and then send that amount to us...or your life." I'm not saying it's perfect, just that it's not extortion in the sense that they're simply taking your money.
@zombiechaddy I do agree agree with your point but it is indeed less intrusive because it doesn't involve every citizen. Everyone doesn't own a business. Not to mention the sell of food is exempt.
Lets not forget the the business man already has a gun pointed at him for making his money, he gets payed too. Therefore by switching from an income to a consumption tax he would be less threatened because he would have the people backing him saying prices are too high lower taxes.
Absolutely. The days of voluntary taxation are very distant. It will undoubtedly not happen anytime soon. Until the government returns to its proper function, the protection of individual rights, no one would be willing to fund such a monstrosity. I think voluntary taxation would be the final step in the direction of a truly free society. Until then, there is no way for the government to continue to function without such "extortions."
Great video, more market anarchists should reply to Peter. It's the only logical conclusion to libertarian ideas. Beleiving in minimal government when it is already HUGE and half the population depends on it verges on insanity. You can only change society at the grassroots level, not through politics.
Imagine a society without involuntary taxes (income or consumption). Now can you picture Peter Schiff posting videos about how we need a consumption tax? :) I don't think Peter is advocating taxes, he's just saying cons.tax is better then inc.tax. Btw he did say he'd like to lower the taxes. I believe he would lower them to 0 if it was realistic.
I agree, I would also say unions also grant themselves moral right to extortion, and the government allows it. So if you're the Govt. or a union it's O.K. but not for anyone else.
No this guy is completly wrong. Consumption tax is best. I get his point but no, consumption is best at of these three idead. In a consumption tax you can boycott the tax by not buying the product.
@MIT2004 and why should the state be telling me what items I have to pay them an extra amount for, if I am buying those items from a third party who may also not agree with the tax?
@MIT2004 So they'd simply tax something else. The government is going to get it's goddamn money one way or another. Any taxation by force leaves open the inevitability that the rates will go up. Just like how they passed the income tax promising it would only be 1%, but within a few years it was 80%. You don't want the foot in the door.
You have a choice, and that's what makes the tax voluntary.
You don't have to have a job either. That is totally voluntary as well. You can become very rich without receiving wages from anyone. Your income can come from dividends and capital gains which are taxed at a much lower rate of 15%
milofonbil 5 months ago
According to the IRS, income taxes are completely voluntary. Everyone computes their own income tax liability and sends the amount owed to the government completely voluntarely. There is no threat here at all.
You don't even have to work if you don't want to. You don't need a job. You can get your money from other sources like capital gains or dividends. Think about this: You don't have to pay capital gains until you sell (or realize the gain). Why would you sell an productive investment?
milofonbil 5 months ago
You'd like to see the government work on a voluntary basis? Fine.
Just don't complain when the police do so too. Or fire fighters. Or the postal service. Or your roads. Or the FDA. Or any number of countless other services or facilities that are funded by taxes.
Taxes are the cost of living in a society with all the things we take for granted. If you don't like it, live in a shack in the wilderness. Maybe then you could complain about the government extorting money out of you.
imroy264 9 months ago
I don't think you understand the free rider principle. why would i contribute to something when i can consume it for free, regardless of how good it is. Without government intervention the market for public goods fails to exist.
reatonate1989 11 months ago
this guy is funny at his core. I always smile when i listen to him. But he is cool and smart and does make sense but in a funny way. I give you 5 stars
bykashka75 1 year ago
This is naiive. If it were all donation based their would be a massive free loader affect. Should those who do not donate be entitled to police and military protection as well?
It's just a silly argument. Forceful taxation is required, but it should be kept to a minimum!
TimeWarp66 1 year ago
Homicide by DEFINITION is the taking of another human life.
Obviously there is a concept known as justifiable homicide.
People who don't understand conditional logic are retarded.
LexPhilogus 1 year ago
I support the FairTax. Prices won't rise, because taxes are only paid by consumers, and the FairTax replaces tax, not add to tax. The net change in tax revenue will be zero, so prices will remain constant. The poor will be totally untaxed, by the prebate, and 350 billion $ will be eliminated in overhead
expenses. OH! And criminals and illegals will finally be paying taxes. Your purchasing power ill rise, under the FairTax.
urgener 1 year ago
The people are the government
siggy16 1 year ago
You are one stupid fuck. Go back in your mom's basement, find a vice, stick your head in it, and tighten it.
FarceTax 1 year ago
The country was set up so that the government would have a monopoly on the use of force. Taxation is a necessary evil.
bonfirejovi 1 year ago
You are an idiot.
if taxation is extortion, then what would you call condo dues? parking lot fees? Now i know you would say "you donnt havta live in a condo" but if you opened the flood gates i can assure you private companies(witch would havta fill the void of government)would put in much more expensive & unjust rules of payment than taxation. Read history you fucking idiot, we did this already for years! and guess what the articales of the confederation failed. you just dumb as shit.
benympls 1 year ago
Fine then, you donate first. I am all for a consumption taxes or (2nd choice) a flat rate of 10% (after a personal deduction of $5000 per person in the family or a single person) on ALL income. No other deductions allowed on anything.
patteel 1 year ago
@Zomboid1000 they would say government is a necessary evil, this is a dumb idea.
MirageScience 1 year ago
You don't have to buy anything, technically. This is the direct vs indirect taxation argument.
And the voluntary payments to the government was tried under the articles of confederation and failed.
DominationCorp 1 year ago 6
keep spreading great ideas like this
b5thomas7 1 year ago
Sorry this might work in the land of Unicorns and Rose gardens but the rest of us have to live in the real world. You make some valid points but there are some things in life have to accept as being necessary and some type of Tax is one of them. Go back and listen to Peter's video again and try to pay attention this time.
Leavon 1 year ago
Great Job! I suggest you look into the camera more or side to side if you are reading. All in All awesome.
pakman0033 1 year ago
I could not agree more!
If anyone is looking for more information on the topic, I suggest reading Murray Rothbard's, "The Ethics of Liberty."
BckWoo 1 year ago
Great idea
ALittleBitPregnant 1 year ago
Your ideas are great for an ideal world. It is just to bad and ideal world won't happen. Personally I don't want to see this idea your proposing put into effect.
If you didn't know already we vote in our representatives in the first place on their promises to spend money wisely.
Besides we chose to put into place a government that can distort because we felt that we as people wouldn't do enough. We need someone to have a job to make sure we get enough money for what the market doesn't produce.
MirageScience 1 year ago
A voluntary tax will never happen and is ridiculous to even ponder. We already have a Consumption tax but abolishment of the Income tax should be instituted immediately. This will increase ten fold the amount of money govt will take in. As Schiff points out, money saved is money invested in the economy. However, we'd better wait until present govt is "overthrown" for a fully functioning Constitution lovin' govt; when each man's vote is a vote fully counted. We should become a democracy first.
trumpsahead 1 year ago
@trumpsahead Yeah people get so patriotic about democracy, but this is a republic.
madpaintbalerx 1 year ago
Interesting idea but I have to ask... what happens when people simply don't give the government any money? I mean its all well and good to think that people are smart enough to recognize the need to be protected from foreign powers but thats not something that confronts the average citizen in day to day life. We need some mandatory form of taxation.
RandomSymbol 1 year ago
@RandomSymbol It's all well and good to think that people are smart enough to recognize their car needs an oil change every now and then, but it's not something that confronts the average citizen in day to day life. We need to hold guns up against car owners heads and force them to have oil changes.
JacobSpinney 1 year ago
Disagree. With a consumption tax, the "gun" is pointed at the seller and saying, "tack-on this amount of money to your products." So no, it's not saying some version of "your money or your life", it's rather saying, to the sellers, "attach this amount of money to the cost of your products and then send that amount to us...or your life." I'm not saying it's perfect, just that it's not extortion in the sense that they're simply taking your money.
zombiechaddy 1 year ago
@zombiechaddy I do agree agree with your point but it is indeed less intrusive because it doesn't involve every citizen. Everyone doesn't own a business. Not to mention the sell of food is exempt.
Lets not forget the the business man already has a gun pointed at him for making his money, he gets payed too. Therefore by switching from an income to a consumption tax he would be less threatened because he would have the people backing him saying prices are too high lower taxes.
MirageScience 1 year ago
There is a serious freerider problem with voluntary taxes. I'd rather see 99% of government services being privatized.
karkelkhan 1 year ago
Comment removed
karkelkhan 1 year ago
Absolutely. The days of voluntary taxation are very distant. It will undoubtedly not happen anytime soon. Until the government returns to its proper function, the protection of individual rights, no one would be willing to fund such a monstrosity. I think voluntary taxation would be the final step in the direction of a truly free society. Until then, there is no way for the government to continue to function without such "extortions."
waterstrike08 1 year ago
Of course if this were to happen, a state by definition would no longer be a state. ;D
GuardofLiberty 1 year ago
Ideally, I think you are right, but at the same time I would see a sales tax replacing a an income tax as being a big step in the right direction.
Weaselheadx 1 year ago 7
Spot on. I've always said income taxes are like protection payments to the mafia.
Sentinel4truth 1 year ago
Great video, more market anarchists should reply to Peter. It's the only logical conclusion to libertarian ideas. Beleiving in minimal government when it is already HUGE and half the population depends on it verges on insanity. You can only change society at the grassroots level, not through politics.
ExquisiteDoom 1 year ago
Imagine a society without involuntary taxes (income or consumption). Now can you picture Peter Schiff posting videos about how we need a consumption tax? :) I don't think Peter is advocating taxes, he's just saying cons.tax is better then inc.tax. Btw he did say he'd like to lower the taxes. I believe he would lower them to 0 if it was realistic.
charonme 1 year ago
I agree, I would also say unions also grant themselves moral right to extortion, and the government allows it. So if you're the Govt. or a union it's O.K. but not for anyone else.
zzx2847 1 year ago
No this guy is completly wrong. Consumption tax is best. I get his point but no, consumption is best at of these three idead. In a consumption tax you can boycott the tax by not buying the product.
MIT2004 1 year ago
@MIT2004 That's retarded... you're going to spend your money at some point. Unless you're telling me consumption taxes don't affect everything...
ExquisiteDoom 1 year ago
@MIT2004 and why should the state be telling me what items I have to pay them an extra amount for, if I am buying those items from a third party who may also not agree with the tax?
zuiprax 1 year ago
@MIT2004 So they'd simply tax something else. The government is going to get it's goddamn money one way or another. Any taxation by force leaves open the inevitability that the rates will go up. Just like how they passed the income tax promising it would only be 1%, but within a few years it was 80%. You don't want the foot in the door.
fluff125 1 year ago
you responded to Peter schiff! lol holy shit!
DeraJa 1 year ago
Can you imagine the attack ad against a "market anarchist" off the label alone?
abortabraham 1 year ago
Consumption taxes are voluntary because we're pointing guns at business owners instead of consumers.
Morrakiu 1 year ago
In short, "Income Tax vs. Consumption Tax" is a complete red herring at best.
Surhotchaperchlorome 1 year ago
I don't think we're going to turn Peter into a market anarchist dude, but we can try :-p
Stargazer5781 1 year ago
@Stargazer5781 Word.
Surhotchaperchlorome 1 year ago