Lol there was a paper saying if stephan hawking got treated by Nhs he would of died haha morons he is British he got treated in Britain he praised nhs
Love the NHS. BUt I think you're being unfair regards Bill O'Reilly. He would welcome anyone on his show who can support their arguments with real proof....non spin....I think your mentioning anti Obama comedians and their poor manners and not mentioning the left versions, which are far more vicious against GOP is unbalanced and could lead people who don't watch USA news to wrong conclusions.
I know Americans that cant get simple meds that could fix them, instead they have to suffer until there body deals with the problem itself. NHS may not be brilliant, but you are free to pay private if you want. Mostly when your older when the cost of heart pills etc can cost a fortune then the NHS is a life saver. Also the NHS is about prevention as well.
the quote that the NHS leaves people to die is so rich as the US system means that cancer patients are left on the streets to die and the fact that the political right in the US knows this happens and has the nerve to call our system a low class service is so offensive. I moan obout people who are easilt offended and i dont like to write back but what the republicans are saying is lies.
People need to remember that the NHS isn't free, we are taxed to death to pay for it and everything else that big government 'provides'.
A serious amount of Income tax on what you earn
A serious amount of VAT put on everything you buy with what you have left
Road tax
council tax
inheritance tax
capital gains tax
Where does it end?
If people weren't taxed to death they would be able to pay for insurance policies to provide health care that would probably be better care than what the NHS give
@eurosceptic1 I am an American and many people cannot afford health insurance. Even if you can afford it, you may be denied it. This happened to me. Republicans often complain that we are taxed to death here too.
@eurosceptic1 "If people weren't taxed to death they would be able to pay for insurance policies to provide health care that would probably be better care than what the NHS give" Don't talk bloody nonsense inheritance tax is perhaps the on e tax that should be extended . How many Brit's pay capital gains tax? Take away the NHS bring in US style private insurance and see how many can afford what you get from the NHS. You pay a lot in tax but you get a lot for it not just the NHS.
'You pay a lot in tax but you get a lot for it not just the NHS.'
Actually the ones paying the tax are the ones who don't get a lot for it, I'm sure if you're on the dole, not paying any tax and living in a house that's paid for by the tax payer then yes, I'm sure the current situation works like a dream for you but If you're someone working, paying very high taxes and paying your own mortgage then you're probably less happy about the tax you pay for what is quite a poor service.
@eurosceptic1 In my 50 years of working live I NEVER CLAIM DOLE MONEY. Born into a working class family in a war battered slum I have worked and sweated blood for everything I now own including my own home and retirement pot. The fact that the NHS changed the lives of millions of poor working class for the better is something Britain can be proud of. If you are paying very high tax then you should count your self lucky I know I do.
@eurosceptic1 Well how can one break tax down just for that, it pays for many other good services so your point is nonsense as it pays for everything from health to education so your point makes no sense.
I dont need Further Education, my tax goes into this though..... should I be "less happy"?
Yes you should be less happy, why should people who don't go into further education pay for it? Toll roads are paid for by the people who use them, not people who don't and that's the way it should be.
Why do think it is acceptable for people to pay for things they don't use? I would argue the person who is using the service is the one who should pay for it. I hate the fact I have to pay for the BBC when I have SKY and don't often watch the BBC
@eurosceptic1 I guess the nearest thing I could compare it too is a credit union in the fact you pay your money in and get some money back abeit in the form of the services you do use out of the many services it pays for...... the grater good so to speak.
I too pay the tv licence fee and have sky, though I do listen to bbc radio and use their iplayer quite a lot...... crappy way to fund I agree, so do most of the bbc broadcasting giants like clarkson etc tbh.
@eurosceptic1 "Why do think it is acceptable for people to pay for things they don't use?" To those who ask the reason why in society it is expected the strong will help the weak? The rich help the poor? The educated teach the uneducated? The seeing and the walking help the blind and the lame? If you really do not understand why nobody can explain to you.
There are certain Fundamental things I think the Government is responsible for.
Protecting Borders
Education to 16
Health care
Military
Police
Fire service
My problem is we seem to have taken this to way too far, I don't want to see people die on the street because they can't afford health care but having a tax for TV is taking the piss, The BBC get funded by a tax, people pay for the BBC whether they use it or not and in the age of Satellite TV it is ridiculous
@eurosceptic1 Up to a point I agree with you most people see the need and support the idea of the welfare state however their must be limits to this. The welfare state was supposed to be a cushion to protect people in times of need and illness, protecting the weak,young and the old but in was never intended to be a life style choice for the lazy. This is what must be redress in todays society the only problem can the UK regenerate its onetime powerful industrial base to create the jobs needed
@davijeph I would have to disagree over the Beeb even if I'm now an old wrinkly(I'm that old my main radio station is radio 4) I use multichannel TV but to be honest it's the Beeb I turn to the most. Why should you have to pay for the BBC when you don't listen to it. Well I pay extra when I pay for goods which are advertised on commercial channels I don't watch fairs ,fairs OK.
it is a matter of choice, if you and others watch the BBC then that is fine, you should be the ones to pay for it. I don't watch it, therefore I shouldn't have to. The same way if you use a toll road then you pay for it, if you don't use a toll road then you don't pay for it.
In a poll, Brits were asked what they loved most about the UK and the NHS came 1st. Americans, you're being lied to politically but I assume you knew that anyway.
Americans, dont knock our Heakth service I am thankful it is how it is and not like the American system,whereby unlike the US system, you get equal treatment whatever your financial state, no-one gets left injured on the road depending on what your insurance covers they have. Expensive? yes, but we the majority, get help!!!! God Bless the NHS!
I'm sorry Twitter,Iran,mocking the NHS, what the fuck are you on about you stupid douche.You just talking about yourselfs and Britain has Primeministers and PM's are shit
@airsoftmanic It will save your life though, when you say 'whats available in the US' what you mean to say is 'whats available to the people who can afford it.'
@N9BJJ As a Brit, I would of agreed 20 years ago. The NHS is a shadow of what it was back then because the government has allowed too many leechers to suck it dry. It's a similar situation with social services in general & it's a similiar situation all across Western Europe. The last time I went to hospital, I thought I was in somalia. Women were taking their kids to A&E for stupid things like a cold. I had to wait over 3 hours to be seen and then I was just left. I ended up going private
I'd broken my leg on a motorbike & had a plate/pins put in. A year later one of the pins came loose & I had to go to hospital. I first had to wait 3 hours to be seen. When I was eventually seen I was taken to a room & briefly examined by the doc. The Doc said he'd be back in 5 minutes. Half an hour passed. Then an hour. Then an hour & a half & there was no contact/update inbetween. We were quite literally left in the room on our own. They were more concerned with treating Somali kids with colds
The idea behind the NHS is sound and the NHS was once a world beating service but this is no more and people are just deluding themsleves. A system like the NHS only works if all people (who can ofc) contribute into the system. As things stand, you can fly over to the UK from say...the USA and use the NHS lol. It's kind of inevitable that people will mik the service and immigration has just added to this. They either need to scrap it or bring out ID cards. The nation is going bust
So you can't blame the Yanks for wanting nothing to do with a system like the NHS. All they'd end up with is even more Mexicans jumping the border in order to get some Viagra.and it would be middle America who ended up paying for it.
@TheARMAProductions No you cannot at all! You could get emergency treatment but you would not be on the nhs register or a uk doctors register for them to get you an appointment on the nhs for non emergency stuff at all.
@TheNottinghamLad Yeah right lol. This explains why today, the NHS has just had to tight off foreign debts. This is money that's owed to the NHS from non nationals
Wow... America one of the worlds richest countries in the world, yet there r people ill and poor suffering!! There is no need to have people paying a fortune for treatment if there ill, its beyond discusting!!!!...What kind of leach is this private healthcare system getting money off the backs of the sick people.....How vile can you get!!! Can't believe this can go on in this day and age.... Its a disgrace!!!!
@becij13 "ron paul never suggests charity alone, he looks at competition rather than monopoly service provision" Then please explain why the one country which as private competition spends the most on healthcare is rated so low.The ones with various types of UHC healthcare like the NHS or run on more private lines are rated higher and cost far less. Ron Paul is simply wrong.
Do you ever get round to making your point or do you just babble on for the whole thing? I gave up after 5 minutes of listening to you repeating the same thing over and over and not making any fresh points.
republicans are a bunch of hypocrites who say they're conservative men of faith and yet do the opposite. i'm sorry but where in the New Testament does it say that you should NOT help the poor and the sick and the abused? wasn't that the whole friggin message of Jesus? i must've missed that part completely...
@elmolovescookies who the fuck says we are against helping the poor. That's like saying American Christians are against people being Christian because we don't want to punish people for not being Christian.
We are vehemently against an extortionist coming to our door and saying "donate to charity and if you don't we will kidnap you."
That is immoral, and you cannot make a just, prosperous and moral society on a foundation of immorality.
@NathanJosephCole so cutting social security for the elderly. medicare and medicaid to help the poor and sick along with student and financial loans to help the struggling new generation that have the best chance of getting the world out of this big mess is totally acceptable by the republican ideology?
@elmolovescookies First off the student loans have only served to increase the cost of college, just like insurance increases the cost of healthcare. Paying someone who pay someone for services causes those services necessarily increase the prices.
It is completely unreasonable to do such things at the federal level, especially since there is no constitutional authority for it. The communities in which these happen people should take care of their own instead of taking from others.
@NathanJosephCole you're absolutely right..if you can afford the high cost of college, you can go. and if you can't, tough shit..so we'll have an entire new generation of uneducated mcdonalds cooks to really solve all of our problems...let's not put all of our best and brightest together to get the best possible outcome, no of course not. that would be way too logical and responsible.
@elmolovescookies But we have a bubble of people with useless liberal arts degrees whose four years in college has led them inexorably to a position behind a fryer. These people are taking up spots that can be used by people who are seeking productive degrees, which will help the economy. If companies need educated people, the are too motivated by profit to not get them educated.
@NathanJosephCole Sounds like a justification for increasing vocational training in society at the expense of instilling actual knowledge on real world issues.
@Activeassholeonpills People in a free market can by whatever the hell education they want, it is just that I shouldn't have to pay for it. If they want to learn about current events, there is nothing stopping them from using Wikipedia and Google.
@NathanJosephCole People whose only 'education' is vocational training for it's own sake are inflexible and typically remain uninformed about real world issues. This is in spite of the advent of Google and Wikipedia. Haven't you ever heard of something called confirmation bias? People left to flounder without a well-rounded education would simply gravitate towards sources of info that tell them what either they already believe or what they want to believe. Stop advocating a Bronze Age mindset!
@NathanJosephCole Urgo, you are advocating two general scenarios for mankind: For many people you're just advocating a 'right' to remain willfully stupid. For others, you are advocating a state of condition mired in existential and/or institutional stupidity. A well rounded education, i.e. elective courses, are part of the education for the purpose of getting sheltered, shit-kicking hillbillies and yokels to start thinking about the bigger picture.
@Activeassholeonpills No, what I am saying is that what should be produced, and made should be decided by free individuals working in cooperation, instead of being forced to cooperate in a certain way. If get rid of a lot of government spending, you free up resources for businesses to pay to their workers, and that is how they pay for their education.
@elmolovescookies Social Darwinism is always acceptable to Republicans. Listen to Ron Paul and the other fuckwit GOPers. You'd think they were still living in the 1870s......oh, wait....
@NathanJosephCole Newsflash pal! It's not extortion to pay your fair share in society! You conservatives and libertarians want what has never and probably shouldn't exist: A society without taxation. You like to drone endlessly "I work hard for my money!" Oh, yeah! Here's another newsflash kid: So does everyone else! What makes you 33%ers so special that you think you can just use our public infrastructure and highways and financial systems and still be allowed not to pay taxes?
The top 1% in America has 18% of the wealth and pays nearly 40% of the taxes. How the hell is that fair? The only fair way of doing taxing people is by having a flat tax similar to what Herman Cain and UKIP advocate (maybe have $20k that off limits, but that's it).
@NathanJosephCole The fact of the matter is you libertarians will never achieve libertopia for the same reason Stalin and Moa failed to achieve perfect communism: Reality throws shit at you! Wrinkles happen! Evil people will corrupt your vision just as much as they corrupted that of your ideological opposites! Do what I did and give up on libertarianism. There are other philosophies out there that are more accommodating to the trials of reality.
@Activeassholeonpills It is the most ethical system being advocated, because it is unethical to take so much from the individual based on some "social contract" that no one ever actually signed.
@elmolovescookies Jesus wouldn't take somebody else's money and give to the poor and the sick. The conservatives in US will rather run Christian hospitals than stealing money via government and run shitty public hospitals.
@silversnowsnake jesus wouldn't take people's money in the first place. free clinics and "shitty public hospitals" is all people have left when they have nothing else that demands a huge price to pay. I'd rather accept socialism any day than live by standards of paying thousands of dollars unnecesarilly to insurance companies who do nothing but drop people when they need them most.
@silversnowsnake Americans still pay taxes - why not spend that money on healthcare for all? It is nothing but double standards to suggest that taxation in the UK - especially to pay for free healthcare - qualifies as stealing people's money.
My great-grandfather always used to say that Jesus was a socialist. When I was young, I didn't understand him, but now I am older, I completely agree. Jesus taught us to love our neighbours. With universal healthcare, we do that and more.
@BasilFawlty4444 Yes. The American federal government is spending much more money per capital than any other countries in the world but your public care sucks. If you want a single-payer care, taxes will increase like 70%. Healthcare insurances in your country are expensive because there's no competition in healthcare market. Government and drug companies are monopolizing the market. The result is bad quality and high prices. Plus spendings increase inflation and it makes prices higher.
@silversnowsnake A. You're completely wrong. Having used the NHS all my life, I can vouch for the quality of it.
B. Average tax brackets in the US compared to the UK are nearly identical.
C. There is competition to the NHS. Just Google BUPA or Harley Street.
Your sweeping argument is fundamentally flawed and clearly not researched correctly. There is a reason why the Conservatives have to pretend to be the "party of the NHS."
@BasilFawlty4444 I thought you were American. Trust me, private care is better than public care because there are always new ideas, new technologies, new medicines in the private sector. It's called entrepreneurship. Yeah, there are competitors but the question is can they beat NHS? NO! Even David had a chance to beat Goliath. Nobody can compete with NHS because the big government is backing it up. FYI, US gov is spending more than any other country in the health care and it's just a failure.
The British private sector has flourished under the NHS; GlaxoSmithKline is one of the world's largest pharmaceutical corporations, and it's British. It has brought advanced medicine all over the world.
Plus it's simply not true that nothing advances with socialised medicine. London is literally littered with teaching hospitals (such as Imperial College) which are constantly dreaming up new ideas.
@BasilFawlty4444 "Public sector stimulates private sector" is one of the most accepted economic fallacies of our time if you know social economics. Try searching Broken Window Fallacy on youtube. Public sector needs taxes and where do taxes come from? PRIVATE SECTOR! Taxes and regulations damage the private sector. It's just nonsense that the private sector must be damaged first for that the public sector can stimulate the private sector. We can run medical schools privately.
@silversnowsnake Yes, I understand that, but equally, it is unacceptable to the British electorate to bring healthcare into the private sector. Undoubtedly everyone from Glaxo to individual doctors have benefitted from the system. There is nothing wrong with the common ownership of the distribution of healthcare; it is good socialism.
There is advance and innovation under the NHS. I believe it is one of the most successful, most efficient public healthcare systems in the world.
@silversnowsnake erm John Locke was not a libertarian, at least not in a metaphysical sense. He believed in political freedoms and rights.
But yes, I am very pleased with the NHS. I have had American friends who have come over here and changed their minds about the system in just weeks. It truly is a wonderful system.
"Socialism" I find has become a dirty word in America, often confused with Communism. I do not believe that socialism infringes liberty, especially in healthcare.
@Freepepsi42 unfortunately my gov is doing it best to please their big business friends instead of doing what they are supposed to and look after their country, anyway my point of this is that my gov has started the privatization of the NHS. First by making it worst then offering the so called solution.
a healthy ,well-educated,prosperous society is harder to rule so poor stupid and ill people lived in germany in the end of 1920´s and begining 1930`s and what happend then we all know...
yeah im fed up with greedy right wing yanks sticking there piggy snouts into our affairs,Stop trying to privatise our public services you mindless shits.
You cannot get to see an NHS doctor. You are diagnosed by a nurse or a receptionist. You have to have a password to get an appointment to see a hospital consultant. Forget your password, you are turned away and left to die. I know four people who were in Leicester Royal Infirmary. They all got MRSA. One of them died. That place is a fucking death camp. You can't get an NHS dentist. Brits go to France or Cyprus for affordable dentistry or else their teeth are left to rot away in their heads.
@tigranvartanovitch Hi Terry Fuckwitt " Have they released you from Broadmoor " given you where in the next cell to me you should know. The fact they let me out and you are still in there shows that the NHS gets it right sometimes. Are you still being bummed by the other inmates ? Now that I'm out might I suggest you try and keep the squeals of pleasure down when they do. You know it makes sense.
@davijeph My compliments. That's a clever reply. You're good for someone who has the mental age of 3. But what would one expect from the Lagerkommandant of Leicester Royal Infirmary. Krankheit macht Frei. Nicht Wahr, Herr Schwuler?
@davijeph Judging by our postings, I would say that the education system in Rip-Off England is as bad as the state health service. Well, since you think you are so clever, Herr Schwuler; tell us what you are going to do about making Leicester Royal Infirmary safe.
@tigranvartanovitch Now, now Terry don't get your Lederhosen in a twist. Flash news just in. 1 September 2011 BBC news Leicester University has developed a £1m "Star Trek-style" medical suite to diagnose hospital patients.
Leicester Royal Infirmary hopes to use the "sick bay" in its Accident and Emergency department within two weeks. Note, no password required. Auf Wiedersehen dummkopf.
@davijeph What about the MRSA. You are a perfect reason why the USA should not have an NHS. Look at you. You have no job, no life, no money,no manners; you are as dumb as a brick, can hardly read, swine ignorant; and you have no idea about how a hospital - let alone a health service - is run. And, to crown it all, you are a Nazi who can't speak German! You are clearly so obese that you live off disability benefit and don't move around much. Well, goodbye, loser. I can't abide useless eaters.
Yes, well wake up people because right now Cameron is trying like hell to push through a bill to privatise the NHS service and its virtually hitting media blackout. The American system is coming here whether we like it or not. check out ukuncut on facebook. protest are going on under a media blackout!
Most Americans love the idea of the NHS. But most Americans, like most people (including those of the UK and commonwealths) know little to nothing of economics.
I love the NHS and it's not fair that people, from abroad, can poke their noses in and tell us whether it's good or not. I support the NHS all the way and I always will like everyone I know.
Mother's friend; Diagnosed with type two stage one breast cancer in the U.K. Died 3 years later.
My mother; Diagnosed with Type two stage one breast cancer in the U.S. Tits chopped off that month, Chemo began a month later, completely cancer free and finished with Chemo 5 months later. Boob job 2 weeks after this, she had new boobs (no cancer) in 7 months, U.K lady got jack-shit (SHE WAS A NURSE) irony.
bullshit, even if it's true your mother fiends cancer could have spread much faster, why don't you tell the 30million american's without health care that story?
@JoshMufc101 EVERY American has access to HEALTHCARE. Health insurance and Health care are two different things. If you need a transplant or surgery in America, you get it. (Plus a bill) if you need a transplant/surgery in England, you get put on a list. Nice Health*Care* you have there.
"If you need a transplant or surgery in America, you get it. (Plus a bill)"
why don't you tell me what happens if you can't afford this bill? every single list of the worlds best healthcare system's put's the UK higher than the US how do you explain that?
@JoshMufc101 Every list is made by a group that is afflilated with government. Quite similar to a car company saying it "Won the (_____) award for best car in its class!" The (_____) is supported by the car company, and the company benifits from (_____). The only party that is fucked over is; the person. Every insurance agent in America is pulling the wagon. Every insurance agent is England is in the wagon. The only way for a country to work is; if there are more people pulling the wagon.
@JoshMufc101 Every list is made by a group that is afflilated with government. Quite similar to a car company saying it "Won the (_____) award for best car in its class!" The (_____) is supported by the car company, and the company benifits from (_____). The only party that is fucked over is; the person. Every insurance agent in America is pulling the wagon. Every insurance agent is England is in the wagon. The only way for a country to work is; if there are more people pulling the wagon.
Im Proud of the NHS, best medical source in the world. If you are IN britain and complain about the NHS god help you when you have an accident. The NHS also care for foreign people and AMericans. To say stephen hawkins would not be alowed to live under the NHS is ludicrous hype and a pile of shit.
The poorest men in the U.K have a larger life expectancy than the wealthiest in the U.S.A, so the U.S can take their superior MRI machine numbers and dwell on whats going wrong. Free healthcare is a Human right, not a lucrative business that should be allowed to choose who it helps.
IF DAVID OR GEORGE ATTEMPT TO MAKE ME EVEN PAY A PENCE FOR AN INJECTION TO SAVE MY LIFE , I WILL KILL THEM BOTH NO HESITATIONS I AM PREPARED TO CUT THERE THROATS AND HANG THEM OUTSIDE NUMBER 10 AND ANY IMPERIALIST JOBSWORTH TORY FUCKER THAT STANDS IN MY WAY WILL JUST BECOME A VICTIM OF MY SAVAGE WAYS.
@yorky115 HA you wont be the only one mate, just think paying for secondary higher education caused an uproar, just think what would happen if they touched the NHS :P
@yorky115 they already are... If you work that is. If you are on benefits then you are a DRAIN on the NHS. But If you work then you pay for the NHS thru both taxes and national insurance. But let me say - Fuck the benefit users.
Funny how the opponents of free health care in the states always say they don't want the government deciding who lives and dies. They're quite happy however to let some guy decide who is paid SPECIFICALLY to deny as many people as possible their insurance. Why would you trust a profit driven organisation with your life over your democratically elected officials?
I think the Americans protesting are idoits why would you not want a health care that is free at the point of use? where do don't sit around filling in forms?
@TheMischievousbull They don't want higher taxes, the republicans say it's one step closer to communisim (which is total BS). Their taxes are low compared to my country of Canada, yet we are still making it work. What really surprised me was that they would not vote for something that will help their people.
@becij13 Well given Ron Paul's alternative of letting the poor depend on the uncertainties of "charity" with its shades of "it was Christmas day in the workhouse" or the US version of not very charitble 1930's "Grapes of Wrath" poor in America than I would agree with Task5003 the NHS does make you proud to be British.
@davijeph you can look at it like that, but the social security fund is on it knees, the boomers are about to retire and that will cripple it seein as the gov have been using funds to prop up more important things like the war. what ron paul suggests is ending militarism and using the 1.5 trillion dollars to shore up programmes like health care, social security, fema etc and protecting those already depended on state handouts but then allowing those under 25 to opt out. dr pauls grassroots
@davijeph have organised a food drive to help stock up all the food centres helpin poor families, whats the gov doin....hopin somehow they can meet the demand for food stamps this xmas! so ron paul wants to end wars, bring all troops home from 900 bases, 130 countries. he wants to lower taxes and reduce the size of government, end the fed reserve whos ruining the economy, expose the corporations, give power back to the people and states, have a non interventionist foreign policy, be friends with
@davijeph trade with, travel to other countries but not have entangling alliances(war). he wants a independent free society but with individual society. that means a country that doesnt have government controllin every aspect of your life, HC, education, regulation, banking. the role of gov is to protect liberty, ensure theres sound currency, provide national defence and personally i feel should protect the environment..thats it!
@davijeph tolerence to the limts....old vulnerable people havin to be given a prescription for water to ensure nurses gave them some for me raises qs....and lack of training just dont cut it, we dont need training to not be abusive!
New life expectancy figures show Americans some way behind countries like Canada, the UK and Australia. Why? Living in the world's richest country comes at a price, and it's measured in life years. Men in the US are on average aged 75 when they die. That is 1.5 years younger than men in the UK and 3.5 years younger than men in Australia, says a new study.
The NHS is a bucket of shit. I dread the dat when some Government admin guy is in charge of my health care again.
The US has problems that stem from over-reliance on insurance, which causes high prices. But the solution is not Government, it is simply de-regulation.
I visit an HHS dentist. You MUST attend a checkup every 6 months, and I get a text to remind me to be at the dentist the next day.
Last week, I visited my dentist as scheduled - she spotted a missing filling in the front tooth - I made an appointment for a week this Monday [I was offered earlier appointments, but they were in my working hours].
The cool thing is, I will pay the same if she discovers some other fillings during the procedure (4 once).
"In scenes more typical of the January sales, (Dental) patients arrived at first light at a new practice in Titchfield Common, Hampshire. Before the doors had opened, 2,000 people had registered online and over the phone. Hundreds more arrived in an attempt to grab the 1,000 remaining places. By the time the surgery opened at 10am, the queue stretched around the block."
@LibertyDown Your report is from 2007. What must be understood by none UK citizens is there are loads of private dental practises operating in the UK with no shortage of good dental care but like all private medicine it is very expensive to the average income citizen. Some years ago NHS dentistry had a series of salary disputes with the dental profession leading to a drop of NHS dentistry. These have now been overcome and many more practises take NHS work allowing access to lower income groups
@davijeph, ok then here's one from 2010 (and it's getting worse, not better):
"Almost 80,000 Scots are still without a NHS dentist and waiting lists in some areas are at a standstill or have started growing again, it was reported yesterday."
"The Scottish government said access to NHS dentistry remained a problem in some places but stated that action was being taken to address shortages. A spokesman said 81.7 per cent of children and 63 per cent of adults were now on NHS books."
@LibertyDownUnder "The Scottish government said access to NHS dentistry remained a problem in some places but stated that ACTION WAS BEING TAKEN TO ADDRESS SHORTAGES". A spokesman said 81.7 per cent of children and 63 per cent of adults were now on NHS books." How does it get worse? Any Poor or low paid Scot like all Scots still have access to private dentistry if the NHS option was not available so are far better of than any US citizen.
America's flawed "healthcare" system is third world. I wouldn't send my dog there. Only the crime rate is a bigger problem in America in my opinion
British doctor Stan Brock provides healthcare aid to over 200,000 Americans every year. Yes he does a great job.. however it will take hundreds of Stan Brocks to treat America's sick
Major reforms are needed in America to change its status of having the worst healthcare in the west, and i'm convinced Obama can initiate those reforms
we definitely "redistribute" way too much money from the hard working wealth creators, to the people who sit at home and have children for a living. there are too many kids dropping out of school and having kids so the state buys them a house and gives them a salary. then their kids do the same and before you know it there are more of them than there are decent hard working ones. not a good way to go really.
@scottishcap2008 You also didn't reply , if you thought Churchill, Thatcher or Lord Hume where socialists ?
And I want an actual period (not "in the old days") when the UK was good for the majority of it's population. Oh yes, writing "idiot" just shows a lack of debating skill, and if you're going to claim that then please spell correctly and observe atleast some grammatical rules if not all of them.
socialism sucks its turned the once great united kingdom into a drug infested giro scrounging hellhole were the kids grow up to work in tescos (if there lucky) and junkies are paid to sit at home and take smack all day all paid for by us. the people who actually work
@bakersteven3 at least i dont support subsidising gangsters and junkies to sit about all day and terrorise there neighbours, compared to the soviet union and any other socialist hellhole (ie nazi germany) britians always been great weve always respected the rule of law and have twice stopped europe from becoming a fascist state, you talk about slavery but we abolished it before any other imperial power and i dont think ethnic groups would be better off if hitler won the war, idiot
@scottishchap2008 LOL, I'm not sure when you wrote this but the USSR broke up over 10 years ago. Russia is no longer a communist country. You faile dmiserabley to actual answer the question. So, try again, Please tell me when it was great (for the MAJORITY) for people to be a UK citizen ?
As "britians always been great weve ", is a ridiculous statement, tapprently you have never heard of Dickens. Yes, we got rid of slavery not before we made considerablt wealth out of it.
@bakersteven3 when has north korea been great for all its people? britian was great before we joined the EU, you sound like a typical self hating marxist that doesnt care if the government takes away your rights as long as you get your re-distribution giro
@scottishchap2008 WTF has North Korea got to do with this? Nothing.
YOU made the claim that "socialism" ruined the UK and it used to be better..
So, you mean before 1973 then ?
I think you should look at the economy in 1973, run of pound, losing trade, 3 day week, balance of payments where a joke, and the IMF had to bail us out !! because we where out of the EU, BTW it was the conservatives who took you into europe NOT the socialists. You have no historical knowledge whatsoever.
@scottishchap2008 "you sound like a typical self hating marxist that doesnt care if the government takes away your rights as long as you get your re-distribution giro"
and you sound like a typical student tory who's never done a days work in his life. I work and have done since I was 18, I put myself through university and my MSc, I worked in cafes, bars, shops, warehouses, security guard to put myself through university. I've paid more taxes than you've had
@scottishchap2008 "britian was great before we joined the EU" - I don't think you was alive then idiot. Even if you was i doubt you could remember what it was like. It is a shame that you haven't taken some time to read a fucking book on the subject. You are talking out of your arse.
A senior adviser to David Cameron says the NHS could be improved by charging patients and will be transformed into a "state insurance provider, not a state deliverer" of care.
Mark Britnell, who was appointed to a "kitchen cabinet" advising the prime minister on reforming the NHS, told a conference of executives from the private sector that future reforms would show "no mercy" to the NHS and offer a "big opportunity" to the for-profit sector.(The Observer 15/05/11).
The NHS must be saved at all costs. It's a shining example of how well socialism can work! I will admit that the stories of mismanagement can be staggering, but the private sector is open to bad practice too.
People complain that the NHS is rubbish etc. but how would Private healthcare be any better? Heathcare would then be even more about profit, the poorer people would be much more effected while the rich get nothing more than faster treatment where they would have got treatment anyway along with the hole nation involved too. I think if you asked most brits, especially cancer and disease survivors, they'd talk of the NHS with more affection than most americans would about their private healthcare.
I believe that anything that is necessary for human survival should be in state hands.
So Health, Electricity, Gas, Food, Water, Transport networks (including rail) - should all be controlled by the state.
Everything else should be free market.
The free market should also be able to freely compete with the compulsory services that the state provides if it so chooses. That insures "efficiency" in the State's approach as it competes with a better effort from a private company.
@jazzx251 yeah, whatever's best really. But currently in britain the NHS is; if someone gets seriously ill/life threatening bupa or another insurance company have been known to move them to NHS centres because they dont have the facilities to cope with them... just saying.
If you knew anything about UK politics you should know the newly elected government have already introduced sever cuts in the public sector debt problem, which I along with the majority of Brits believe to be required. A problem caused in part by the greed of the private banking system. Don't mistake support for the NHS or other UHC systems as support for socialism in other areas. It is a pity that the US governmental system is not allowed to operate so quickly when confronted with a crisis,
@davijeph Don't lie! A majority of the british public are against the cuts, to start with the 500,000 people who marched on parliment last week! Look at he surveys, the figures the facts! There is a reason everyone is protesting and it isn't because they love loosing their jobs and are looking forward to high university fee's...don't lie.
@Babs44sun Where do I lie? Even if I except your OTT figures I doubt that the majority of the UK population are apposed to public sector cuts given the state of the countries finances. We might not like them but even Labour (I voted for them at the last election) would have had to bring in swinging cuts in order to try and stop the country from economic collapse. I am a strong supporter of the NHS but that does not mean that some areas of public spending including welfare are not being abused.
@crosbyj25 I agree with you but the reality is until the banks become viable and the Government can get our money back the country is in deep poo. Just to keep on spending money we do not have is not the answer. Like most I have been hurt by the present crisis and like most am angry with all those be they incompetent greedy Bankers, Politicians who should have known what the bankers where doing or the ordinary citizens living on credit they could not hope to repay but we are where we are.
@davijeph You said the majority of the country believe they are neccasary. That IS a LIE! End of, I'm not saying they are not neccasary because that would require a bigger more complex
Lol there was a paper saying if stephan hawking got treated by Nhs he would of died haha morons he is British he got treated in Britain he praised nhs
01ccoulson 1 day ago
Nhs free what more you want you can go private ha don't listen to fox news and CNN lol there moron news for moron Americans
01ccoulson 1 day ago
Love the NHS. BUt I think you're being unfair regards Bill O'Reilly. He would welcome anyone on his show who can support their arguments with real proof....non spin....I think your mentioning anti Obama comedians and their poor manners and not mentioning the left versions, which are far more vicious against GOP is unbalanced and could lead people who don't watch USA news to wrong conclusions.
keithnewby 5 days ago
I know Americans that cant get simple meds that could fix them, instead they have to suffer until there body deals with the problem itself. NHS may not be brilliant, but you are free to pay private if you want. Mostly when your older when the cost of heart pills etc can cost a fortune then the NHS is a life saver. Also the NHS is about prevention as well.
conqc20 6 days ago
The British NHS is the crown jewels of Britain, second to none.
Stick your American health system up your arse and leave our NHS alone.
MrVillamike 1 week ago 5
the quote that the NHS leaves people to die is so rich as the US system means that cancer patients are left on the streets to die and the fact that the political right in the US knows this happens and has the nerve to call our system a low class service is so offensive. I moan obout people who are easilt offended and i dont like to write back but what the republicans are saying is lies.
emmersonforest4 1 week ago 3
The NHS was a great thing. But its struggling to cope, with the population problem, due to mass immigration and the lower class breeding like rats.
BENJIMANBREEG33 2 weeks ago
People need to remember that the NHS isn't free, we are taxed to death to pay for it and everything else that big government 'provides'.
A serious amount of Income tax on what you earn
A serious amount of VAT put on everything you buy with what you have left
Road tax
council tax
inheritance tax
capital gains tax
Where does it end?
If people weren't taxed to death they would be able to pay for insurance policies to provide health care that would probably be better care than what the NHS give
eurosceptic1 2 weeks ago
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BuildYourMind 2 weeks ago
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@eurosceptic1 You dont like the NHS then LEAVE and go where you are left to die in the street....Fool.
BuildYourMind 2 weeks ago
@eurosceptic1 I am an American and many people cannot afford health insurance. Even if you can afford it, you may be denied it. This happened to me. Republicans often complain that we are taxed to death here too.
av3ed 2 weeks ago
@eurosceptic1 "If people weren't taxed to death they would be able to pay for insurance policies to provide health care that would probably be better care than what the NHS give" Don't talk bloody nonsense inheritance tax is perhaps the on e tax that should be extended . How many Brit's pay capital gains tax? Take away the NHS bring in US style private insurance and see how many can afford what you get from the NHS. You pay a lot in tax but you get a lot for it not just the NHS.
davijeph 2 weeks ago
@davijeph
'You pay a lot in tax but you get a lot for it not just the NHS.'
Actually the ones paying the tax are the ones who don't get a lot for it, I'm sure if you're on the dole, not paying any tax and living in a house that's paid for by the tax payer then yes, I'm sure the current situation works like a dream for you but If you're someone working, paying very high taxes and paying your own mortgage then you're probably less happy about the tax you pay for what is quite a poor service.
eurosceptic1 2 weeks ago
@eurosceptic1 In my 50 years of working live I NEVER CLAIM DOLE MONEY. Born into a working class family in a war battered slum I have worked and sweated blood for everything I now own including my own home and retirement pot. The fact that the NHS changed the lives of millions of poor working class for the better is something Britain can be proud of. If you are paying very high tax then you should count your self lucky I know I do.
davijeph 2 weeks ago
@davijeph I may only a mere 33 years under my wing but I agree with you 100%
TheNottinghamLad 1 week ago
@eurosceptic1 Well how can one break tax down just for that, it pays for many other good services so your point is nonsense as it pays for everything from health to education so your point makes no sense.
I dont need Further Education, my tax goes into this though..... should I be "less happy"?
TheNottinghamLad 1 week ago
@TheNottinghamLad
Yes you should be less happy, why should people who don't go into further education pay for it? Toll roads are paid for by the people who use them, not people who don't and that's the way it should be.
Why do think it is acceptable for people to pay for things they don't use? I would argue the person who is using the service is the one who should pay for it. I hate the fact I have to pay for the BBC when I have SKY and don't often watch the BBC
eurosceptic1 1 week ago
@eurosceptic1 I guess the nearest thing I could compare it too is a credit union in the fact you pay your money in and get some money back abeit in the form of the services you do use out of the many services it pays for...... the grater good so to speak.
I too pay the tv licence fee and have sky, though I do listen to bbc radio and use their iplayer quite a lot...... crappy way to fund I agree, so do most of the bbc broadcasting giants like clarkson etc tbh.
TheNottinghamLad 1 week ago
@eurosceptic1 "Why do think it is acceptable for people to pay for things they don't use?" To those who ask the reason why in society it is expected the strong will help the weak? The rich help the poor? The educated teach the uneducated? The seeing and the walking help the blind and the lame? If you really do not understand why nobody can explain to you.
davijeph 1 week ago 2
@davijeph
There are certain Fundamental things I think the Government is responsible for.
Protecting Borders
Education to 16
Health care
Military
Police
Fire service
My problem is we seem to have taken this to way too far, I don't want to see people die on the street because they can't afford health care but having a tax for TV is taking the piss, The BBC get funded by a tax, people pay for the BBC whether they use it or not and in the age of Satellite TV it is ridiculous
eurosceptic1 1 week ago
@eurosceptic1 Up to a point I agree with you most people see the need and support the idea of the welfare state however their must be limits to this. The welfare state was supposed to be a cushion to protect people in times of need and illness, protecting the weak,young and the old but in was never intended to be a life style choice for the lazy. This is what must be redress in todays society the only problem can the UK regenerate its onetime powerful industrial base to create the jobs needed
davijeph 1 week ago
@davijeph I would have to disagree over the Beeb even if I'm now an old wrinkly(I'm that old my main radio station is radio 4) I use multichannel TV but to be honest it's the Beeb I turn to the most. Why should you have to pay for the BBC when you don't listen to it. Well I pay extra when I pay for goods which are advertised on commercial channels I don't watch fairs ,fairs OK.
davijeph 1 week ago
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eurosceptic1 1 week ago
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@davijeph
it is a matter of choice, if you and others watch the BBC then that is fine, you should be the ones to pay for it. I don't watch it, therefore I shouldn't have to. The same way if you use a toll road then you pay for it, if you don't use a toll road then you don't pay for it.
eurosceptic1 1 week ago
In a poll, Brits were asked what they loved most about the UK and the NHS came 1st. Americans, you're being lied to politically but I assume you knew that anyway.
Eldomina22 3 weeks ago
Is that Graham Linehan?
Bot23 3 weeks ago
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Healthy people complain..
That doesnt mean we dont love our Universal Healthcare ;)
Im Danish btw.
jsgdk 3 weeks ago
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jsgdk 3 weeks ago
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jsgdk 3 weeks ago
Americans, dont knock our Heakth service I am thankful it is how it is and not like the American system,whereby unlike the US system, you get equal treatment whatever your financial state, no-one gets left injured on the road depending on what your insurance covers they have. Expensive? yes, but we the majority, get help!!!! God Bless the NHS!
TheRanhyn 3 weeks ago 15
@TheRanhyn You mean God bless William Beverage.
BuildYourMind 2 weeks ago
I'm sorry Twitter,Iran,mocking the NHS, what the fuck are you on about you stupid douche.You just talking about yourselfs and Britain has Primeministers and PM's are shit
gangstersteve1993 3 weeks ago
The NHS is fantastic - I pity people in America for not having such a fantastic service.
N9BJJ 1 month ago 77
@N9BJJ So true!
zennus1 1 month ago
@N9BJJ the NHS is slow, inefficient and something of a punch bag for politicians.
its still light years better than what is available in the US.
airsoftmanic 1 month ago 2
@airsoftmanic It will save your life though, when you say 'whats available in the US' what you mean to say is 'whats available to the people who can afford it.'
Radman23078 3 weeks ago
@Radman23078 that is exactly what I mean. the last survey I read said 50% of Americans dont even have it because they cant afford it.
the NHS might be all the things I've described, but would I let politicians take it away? not a chance.
airsoftmanic 3 weeks ago
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TheARMAProductions 1 week ago
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TheARMAProductions 1 week ago
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@N9BJJ As a Brit, I would of agreed 20 years ago. The NHS is a shadow of what it was back then because the government has allowed too many leechers to suck it dry. It's a similar situation with social services in general & it's a similiar situation all across Western Europe. The last time I went to hospital, I thought I was in somalia. Women were taking their kids to A&E for stupid things like a cold. I had to wait over 3 hours to be seen and then I was just left. I ended up going private
TheARMAProductions 1 week ago
I'd broken my leg on a motorbike & had a plate/pins put in. A year later one of the pins came loose & I had to go to hospital. I first had to wait 3 hours to be seen. When I was eventually seen I was taken to a room & briefly examined by the doc. The Doc said he'd be back in 5 minutes. Half an hour passed. Then an hour. Then an hour & a half & there was no contact/update inbetween. We were quite literally left in the room on our own. They were more concerned with treating Somali kids with colds
TheARMAProductions 1 week ago
The idea behind the NHS is sound and the NHS was once a world beating service but this is no more and people are just deluding themsleves. A system like the NHS only works if all people (who can ofc) contribute into the system. As things stand, you can fly over to the UK from say...the USA and use the NHS lol. It's kind of inevitable that people will mik the service and immigration has just added to this. They either need to scrap it or bring out ID cards. The nation is going bust
TheARMAProductions 1 week ago
So you can't blame the Yanks for wanting nothing to do with a system like the NHS. All they'd end up with is even more Mexicans jumping the border in order to get some Viagra.and it would be middle America who ended up paying for it.
TheARMAProductions 1 week ago
@TheARMAProductions No you cannot at all! You could get emergency treatment but you would not be on the nhs register or a uk doctors register for them to get you an appointment on the nhs for non emergency stuff at all.
TheNottinghamLad 1 week ago
@TheNottinghamLad Yeah right lol. This explains why today, the NHS has just had to tight off foreign debts. This is money that's owed to the NHS from non nationals
TheARMAProductions 6 days ago
Wow... America one of the worlds richest countries in the world, yet there r people ill and poor suffering!! There is no need to have people paying a fortune for treatment if there ill, its beyond discusting!!!!...What kind of leach is this private healthcare system getting money off the backs of the sick people.....How vile can you get!!! Can't believe this can go on in this day and age.... Its a disgrace!!!!
oomoonbeam 1 month ago 2
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@becij13 "ron paul never suggests charity alone, he looks at competition rather than monopoly service provision" Then please explain why the one country which as private competition spends the most on healthcare is rated so low.The ones with various types of UHC healthcare like the NHS or run on more private lines are rated higher and cost far less. Ron Paul is simply wrong.
davijeph 1 month ago
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davijeph 1 month ago
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davijeph 1 month ago
Do you ever get round to making your point or do you just babble on for the whole thing? I gave up after 5 minutes of listening to you repeating the same thing over and over and not making any fresh points.
TheWhiteDevil1612 2 months ago
republicans are a bunch of hypocrites who say they're conservative men of faith and yet do the opposite. i'm sorry but where in the New Testament does it say that you should NOT help the poor and the sick and the abused? wasn't that the whole friggin message of Jesus? i must've missed that part completely...
elmolovescookies 2 months ago 27
@elmolovescookies who the fuck says we are against helping the poor. That's like saying American Christians are against people being Christian because we don't want to punish people for not being Christian.
We are vehemently against an extortionist coming to our door and saying "donate to charity and if you don't we will kidnap you."
That is immoral, and you cannot make a just, prosperous and moral society on a foundation of immorality.
NathanJosephCole 2 months ago
@NathanJosephCole so cutting social security for the elderly. medicare and medicaid to help the poor and sick along with student and financial loans to help the struggling new generation that have the best chance of getting the world out of this big mess is totally acceptable by the republican ideology?
elmolovescookies 2 months ago
@elmolovescookies First off the student loans have only served to increase the cost of college, just like insurance increases the cost of healthcare. Paying someone who pay someone for services causes those services necessarily increase the prices.
It is completely unreasonable to do such things at the federal level, especially since there is no constitutional authority for it. The communities in which these happen people should take care of their own instead of taking from others.
NathanJosephCole 2 months ago
@NathanJosephCole you're absolutely right..if you can afford the high cost of college, you can go. and if you can't, tough shit..so we'll have an entire new generation of uneducated mcdonalds cooks to really solve all of our problems...let's not put all of our best and brightest together to get the best possible outcome, no of course not. that would be way too logical and responsible.
elmolovescookies 2 months ago
@elmolovescookies But we have a bubble of people with useless liberal arts degrees whose four years in college has led them inexorably to a position behind a fryer. These people are taking up spots that can be used by people who are seeking productive degrees, which will help the economy. If companies need educated people, the are too motivated by profit to not get them educated.
NathanJosephCole 2 months ago
@NathanJosephCole Sounds like a justification for increasing vocational training in society at the expense of instilling actual knowledge on real world issues.
Activeassholeonpills 1 month ago
@Activeassholeonpills People in a free market can by whatever the hell education they want, it is just that I shouldn't have to pay for it. If they want to learn about current events, there is nothing stopping them from using Wikipedia and Google.
NathanJosephCole 1 month ago
@NathanJosephCole People whose only 'education' is vocational training for it's own sake are inflexible and typically remain uninformed about real world issues. This is in spite of the advent of Google and Wikipedia. Haven't you ever heard of something called confirmation bias? People left to flounder without a well-rounded education would simply gravitate towards sources of info that tell them what either they already believe or what they want to believe. Stop advocating a Bronze Age mindset!
Activeassholeonpills 1 month ago
@NathanJosephCole Urgo, you are advocating two general scenarios for mankind: For many people you're just advocating a 'right' to remain willfully stupid. For others, you are advocating a state of condition mired in existential and/or institutional stupidity. A well rounded education, i.e. elective courses, are part of the education for the purpose of getting sheltered, shit-kicking hillbillies and yokels to start thinking about the bigger picture.
Activeassholeonpills 1 month ago
@Activeassholeonpills No, what I am saying is that what should be produced, and made should be decided by free individuals working in cooperation, instead of being forced to cooperate in a certain way. If get rid of a lot of government spending, you free up resources for businesses to pay to their workers, and that is how they pay for their education.
NathanJosephCole 1 month ago
@elmolovescookies Social Darwinism is always acceptable to Republicans. Listen to Ron Paul and the other fuckwit GOPers. You'd think they were still living in the 1870s......oh, wait....
Activeassholeonpills 1 month ago
@Activeassholeonpills how is social darwinism acceptable to ron paul?
becij13 1 month ago
@NathanJosephCole Newsflash pal! It's not extortion to pay your fair share in society! You conservatives and libertarians want what has never and probably shouldn't exist: A society without taxation. You like to drone endlessly "I work hard for my money!" Oh, yeah! Here's another newsflash kid: So does everyone else! What makes you 33%ers so special that you think you can just use our public infrastructure and highways and financial systems and still be allowed not to pay taxes?
Activeassholeonpills 1 month ago
@Activeassholeonpills
The top 1% in America has 18% of the wealth and pays nearly 40% of the taxes. How the hell is that fair? The only fair way of doing taxing people is by having a flat tax similar to what Herman Cain and UKIP advocate (maybe have $20k that off limits, but that's it).
NathanJosephCole 1 month ago
@NathanJosephCole The fact of the matter is you libertarians will never achieve libertopia for the same reason Stalin and Moa failed to achieve perfect communism: Reality throws shit at you! Wrinkles happen! Evil people will corrupt your vision just as much as they corrupted that of your ideological opposites! Do what I did and give up on libertarianism. There are other philosophies out there that are more accommodating to the trials of reality.
Activeassholeonpills 1 month ago
@Activeassholeonpills It is the most ethical system being advocated, because it is unethical to take so much from the individual based on some "social contract" that no one ever actually signed.
NathanJosephCole 1 month ago
@elmolovescookies If Jesus himself were running for president, he'd lose when he starts talking about helping the poor and not going to war.
gingermagicman 1 month ago 5
@elmolovescookies Jesus wouldn't take somebody else's money and give to the poor and the sick. The conservatives in US will rather run Christian hospitals than stealing money via government and run shitty public hospitals.
silversnowsnake 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake So they ARE happy to see poor people dying then
aspiringdrummer17 3 weeks ago
@aspiringdrummer17 lol, that's what liberals do. Churches are more active in helping the poor than you socialists.
silversnowsnake 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake jesus wouldn't take people's money in the first place. free clinics and "shitty public hospitals" is all people have left when they have nothing else that demands a huge price to pay. I'd rather accept socialism any day than live by standards of paying thousands of dollars unnecesarilly to insurance companies who do nothing but drop people when they need them most.
elmolovescookies 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake Americans still pay taxes - why not spend that money on healthcare for all? It is nothing but double standards to suggest that taxation in the UK - especially to pay for free healthcare - qualifies as stealing people's money.
My great-grandfather always used to say that Jesus was a socialist. When I was young, I didn't understand him, but now I am older, I completely agree. Jesus taught us to love our neighbours. With universal healthcare, we do that and more.
BasilFawlty4444 3 weeks ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Yes. The American federal government is spending much more money per capital than any other countries in the world but your public care sucks. If you want a single-payer care, taxes will increase like 70%. Healthcare insurances in your country are expensive because there's no competition in healthcare market. Government and drug companies are monopolizing the market. The result is bad quality and high prices. Plus spendings increase inflation and it makes prices higher.
silversnowsnake 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake A. You're completely wrong. Having used the NHS all my life, I can vouch for the quality of it.
B. Average tax brackets in the US compared to the UK are nearly identical.
C. There is competition to the NHS. Just Google BUPA or Harley Street.
Your sweeping argument is fundamentally flawed and clearly not researched correctly. There is a reason why the Conservatives have to pretend to be the "party of the NHS."
BasilFawlty4444 3 weeks ago
@BasilFawlty4444 I thought you were American. Trust me, private care is better than public care because there are always new ideas, new technologies, new medicines in the private sector. It's called entrepreneurship. Yeah, there are competitors but the question is can they beat NHS? NO! Even David had a chance to beat Goliath. Nobody can compete with NHS because the big government is backing it up. FYI, US gov is spending more than any other country in the health care and it's just a failure.
silversnowsnake 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake Again, you're wrong.
The British private sector has flourished under the NHS; GlaxoSmithKline is one of the world's largest pharmaceutical corporations, and it's British. It has brought advanced medicine all over the world.
Plus it's simply not true that nothing advances with socialised medicine. London is literally littered with teaching hospitals (such as Imperial College) which are constantly dreaming up new ideas.
BasilFawlty4444 3 weeks ago
@BasilFawlty4444 "Public sector stimulates private sector" is one of the most accepted economic fallacies of our time if you know social economics. Try searching Broken Window Fallacy on youtube. Public sector needs taxes and where do taxes come from? PRIVATE SECTOR! Taxes and regulations damage the private sector. It's just nonsense that the private sector must be damaged first for that the public sector can stimulate the private sector. We can run medical schools privately.
silversnowsnake 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake Yes, I understand that, but equally, it is unacceptable to the British electorate to bring healthcare into the private sector. Undoubtedly everyone from Glaxo to individual doctors have benefitted from the system. There is nothing wrong with the common ownership of the distribution of healthcare; it is good socialism.
There is advance and innovation under the NHS. I believe it is one of the most successful, most efficient public healthcare systems in the world.
BasilFawlty4444 3 weeks ago
@BasilFawlty4444 It's ok if you're pleased with it. I'm anti-socialism and Libertarian like Adam Smith and John Locke.
silversnowsnake 3 weeks ago
@silversnowsnake erm John Locke was not a libertarian, at least not in a metaphysical sense. He believed in political freedoms and rights.
But yes, I am very pleased with the NHS. I have had American friends who have come over here and changed their minds about the system in just weeks. It truly is a wonderful system.
"Socialism" I find has become a dirty word in America, often confused with Communism. I do not believe that socialism infringes liberty, especially in healthcare.
BasilFawlty4444 3 weeks ago 3
@Freepepsi42 unfortunately my gov is doing it best to please their big business friends instead of doing what they are supposed to and look after their country, anyway my point of this is that my gov has started the privatization of the NHS. First by making it worst then offering the so called solution.
TheMischievousbull 2 months ago
The health care insurance industry. Profiting on your sickness.
If you have an HMO then the insurance company tells you if you can see a specialist or not. This ladies and gentlemen is a death panel.
pchtermino1 2 months ago 3
Who is the person speaking in this video? It sounds a bit like Mad-Eye Moody (Brendan Gleeson).
blueboyblue 3 months ago
a healthy ,well-educated,prosperous society is harder to rule so poor stupid and ill people lived in germany in the end of 1920´s and begining 1930`s and what happend then we all know...
tkuehn882 3 months ago 2
So now we all know it Terry fuckwit is from another planet and it's called America.
davijeph 3 months ago
yeah im fed up with greedy right wing yanks sticking there piggy snouts into our affairs,Stop trying to privatise our public services you mindless shits.
Doversreturn 3 months ago
You cannot get to see an NHS doctor. You are diagnosed by a nurse or a receptionist. You have to have a password to get an appointment to see a hospital consultant. Forget your password, you are turned away and left to die. I know four people who were in Leicester Royal Infirmary. They all got MRSA. One of them died. That place is a fucking death camp. You can't get an NHS dentist. Brits go to France or Cyprus for affordable dentistry or else their teeth are left to rot away in their heads.
tigranvartanovitch 3 months ago
@tigranvartanovitch Please stop spreading myths about the NHS on youtube, thanks.
rithompson 3 months ago
@rithompson Everything I have said is true. You are spreading the myths.
tigranvartanovitch 3 months ago
@tigranvartanovitch Hi Terry Fuckwitt how ya doing?
davijeph 3 months ago
@davijeph Well, hello, Willie Wanker. I'm doing very well, thank you. How are you? Have they released you from Broadmoor yet?
tigranvartanovitch 3 months ago
@tigranvartanovitch Hi Terry Fuckwitt " Have they released you from Broadmoor " given you where in the next cell to me you should know. The fact they let me out and you are still in there shows that the NHS gets it right sometimes. Are you still being bummed by the other inmates ? Now that I'm out might I suggest you try and keep the squeals of pleasure down when they do. You know it makes sense.
davijeph 3 months ago
@davijeph My compliments. That's a clever reply. You're good for someone who has the mental age of 3. But what would one expect from the Lagerkommandant of Leicester Royal Infirmary. Krankheit macht Frei. Nicht Wahr, Herr Schwuler?
tigranvartanovitch 3 months ago
@tigranvartanovitch It's a "clever reply" because compared to you Terry I'm clever bloke.
davijeph 3 months ago
@davijeph Judging by our postings, I would say that the education system in Rip-Off England is as bad as the state health service. Well, since you think you are so clever, Herr Schwuler; tell us what you are going to do about making Leicester Royal Infirmary safe.
tigranvartanovitch 3 months ago
@tigranvartanovitch Now, now Terry don't get your Lederhosen in a twist. Flash news just in. 1 September 2011 BBC news Leicester University has developed a £1m "Star Trek-style" medical suite to diagnose hospital patients.
Leicester Royal Infirmary hopes to use the "sick bay" in its Accident and Emergency department within two weeks. Note, no password required. Auf Wiedersehen dummkopf.
davijeph 3 months ago
@davijeph What about the MRSA. You are a perfect reason why the USA should not have an NHS. Look at you. You have no job, no life, no money,no manners; you are as dumb as a brick, can hardly read, swine ignorant; and you have no idea about how a hospital - let alone a health service - is run. And, to crown it all, you are a Nazi who can't speak German! You are clearly so obese that you live off disability benefit and don't move around much. Well, goodbye, loser. I can't abide useless eaters.
tigranvartanovitch 3 months ago
Comment removed
AlephNeil 4 months ago
Cost of Iraq/Afghan wars to America over the last 10 years $3 trillion
Predicted cost of an American health care system for 10 years $1 trillion
How dare the Democrats suggest using good bomb money on taking care of people?!?!
Preacherjonson 4 months ago
Yes, well wake up people because right now Cameron is trying like hell to push through a bill to privatise the NHS service and its virtually hitting media blackout. The American system is coming here whether we like it or not. check out ukuncut on facebook. protest are going on under a media blackout!
brucemagee1 4 months ago
Most Americans love the idea of the NHS. But most Americans, like most people (including those of the UK and commonwealths) know little to nothing of economics.
Rensune 4 months ago
@Rensune no one knows shit about economics xD
Preacherjonson 4 months ago
I love the NHS and it's not fair that people, from abroad, can poke their noses in and tell us whether it's good or not. I support the NHS all the way and I always will like everyone I know.
RickyHolcroft 4 months ago
Mother's friend; Diagnosed with type two stage one breast cancer in the U.K. Died 3 years later.
My mother; Diagnosed with Type two stage one breast cancer in the U.S. Tits chopped off that month, Chemo began a month later, completely cancer free and finished with Chemo 5 months later. Boob job 2 weeks after this, she had new boobs (no cancer) in 7 months, U.K lady got jack-shit (SHE WAS A NURSE) irony.
TumisHumis 4 months ago
@TumisHumis
bullshit, even if it's true your mother fiends cancer could have spread much faster, why don't you tell the 30million american's without health care that story?
JoshMufc101 4 months ago
@JoshMufc101 EVERY American has access to HEALTHCARE. Health insurance and Health care are two different things. If you need a transplant or surgery in America, you get it. (Plus a bill) if you need a transplant/surgery in England, you get put on a list. Nice Health*Care* you have there.
TumisHumis 4 months ago
@TumisHumis
"If you need a transplant or surgery in America, you get it. (Plus a bill)"
why don't you tell me what happens if you can't afford this bill? every single list of the worlds best healthcare system's put's the UK higher than the US how do you explain that?
JoshMufc101 4 months ago
@JoshMufc101 Every list is made by a group that is afflilated with government. Quite similar to a car company saying it "Won the (_____) award for best car in its class!" The (_____) is supported by the car company, and the company benifits from (_____). The only party that is fucked over is; the person. Every insurance agent in America is pulling the wagon. Every insurance agent is England is in the wagon. The only way for a country to work is; if there are more people pulling the wagon.
TumisHumis 4 months ago
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@JoshMufc101 Every list is made by a group that is afflilated with government. Quite similar to a car company saying it "Won the (_____) award for best car in its class!" The (_____) is supported by the car company, and the company benifits from (_____). The only party that is fucked over is; the person. Every insurance agent in America is pulling the wagon. Every insurance agent is England is in the wagon. The only way for a country to work is; if there are more people pulling the wagon.
TumisHumis 4 months ago
Im Proud of the NHS, best medical source in the world. If you are IN britain and complain about the NHS god help you when you have an accident. The NHS also care for foreign people and AMericans. To say stephen hawkins would not be alowed to live under the NHS is ludicrous hype and a pile of shit.
Kaldhore 4 months ago
The NHS is a national disgrace and is failing the people of the UK.
tracer1024 4 months ago
The poorest men in the U.K have a larger life expectancy than the wealthiest in the U.S.A, so the U.S can take their superior MRI machine numbers and dwell on whats going wrong. Free healthcare is a Human right, not a lucrative business that should be allowed to choose who it helps.
scaryninja1693 4 months ago
IF DAVID OR GEORGE ATTEMPT TO MAKE ME EVEN PAY A PENCE FOR AN INJECTION TO SAVE MY LIFE , I WILL KILL THEM BOTH NO HESITATIONS I AM PREPARED TO CUT THERE THROATS AND HANG THEM OUTSIDE NUMBER 10 AND ANY IMPERIALIST JOBSWORTH TORY FUCKER THAT STANDS IN MY WAY WILL JUST BECOME A VICTIM OF MY SAVAGE WAYS.
yorky115 4 months ago
@yorky115 HA you wont be the only one mate, just think paying for secondary higher education caused an uproar, just think what would happen if they touched the NHS :P
Preacherjonson 4 months ago
@yorky115 they already are... If you work that is. If you are on benefits then you are a DRAIN on the NHS. But If you work then you pay for the NHS thru both taxes and national insurance. But let me say - Fuck the benefit users.
Kaldhore 4 months ago
Funny how the opponents of free health care in the states always say they don't want the government deciding who lives and dies. They're quite happy however to let some guy decide who is paid SPECIFICALLY to deny as many people as possible their insurance. Why would you trust a profit driven organisation with your life over your democratically elected officials?
williamthebrit 5 months ago 2
I think the Americans protesting are idoits why would you not want a health care that is free at the point of use? where do don't sit around filling in forms?
TheMischievousbull 5 months ago 22
@TheMischievousbull
I agree. I am an American who used to live in Britain.
I will make sure that my countryt people hear the real facts about the NHS. Its a good healthcare system.
Please forgive the ignorance of my fellow Americans.
There are some of us who would like a system like you have.
pluto4847 4 months ago
@TheMischievousbull They don't want higher taxes, the republicans say it's one step closer to communisim (which is total BS). Their taxes are low compared to my country of Canada, yet we are still making it work. What really surprised me was that they would not vote for something that will help their people.
Freepepsi42 2 months ago
@TheMischievousbull you should read frederic bastiat's the law.
That's why.
darris321 1 month ago
@TheMischievousbull and also, you have false reporting in England too lol
I would say most Americans are against a federal program because we hate the federal government which you Europeans don't apparently understand.
It's like Scottish people not liking the UK.
Kansans don't like the US
Texans don't like the US
Southern states are more independent and want to be on their own.
That's why people who say Obamacare is like Romneycare are stupid.
Romneycare is only in Massachusetts.
darris321 1 month ago
The NHS makes me proud to be British.
Task5003 6 months ago 67
@Task5003 i think thats goin a little far! it has its good points but to say it makes you proud confuses me slightly!
becij13 1 month ago
@becij13 Well given Ron Paul's alternative of letting the poor depend on the uncertainties of "charity" with its shades of "it was Christmas day in the workhouse" or the US version of not very charitble 1930's "Grapes of Wrath" poor in America than I would agree with Task5003 the NHS does make you proud to be British.
davijeph 1 month ago
@davijeph you can look at it like that, but the social security fund is on it knees, the boomers are about to retire and that will cripple it seein as the gov have been using funds to prop up more important things like the war. what ron paul suggests is ending militarism and using the 1.5 trillion dollars to shore up programmes like health care, social security, fema etc and protecting those already depended on state handouts but then allowing those under 25 to opt out. dr pauls grassroots
becij13 1 month ago
@davijeph have organised a food drive to help stock up all the food centres helpin poor families, whats the gov doin....hopin somehow they can meet the demand for food stamps this xmas! so ron paul wants to end wars, bring all troops home from 900 bases, 130 countries. he wants to lower taxes and reduce the size of government, end the fed reserve whos ruining the economy, expose the corporations, give power back to the people and states, have a non interventionist foreign policy, be friends with
becij13 1 month ago
@davijeph trade with, travel to other countries but not have entangling alliances(war). he wants a independent free society but with individual society. that means a country that doesnt have government controllin every aspect of your life, HC, education, regulation, banking. the role of gov is to protect liberty, ensure theres sound currency, provide national defence and personally i feel should protect the environment..thats it!
becij13 1 month ago
@davijeph tolerence to the limts....old vulnerable people havin to be given a prescription for water to ensure nurses gave them some for me raises qs....and lack of training just dont cut it, we dont need training to not be abusive!
becij13 1 month ago
Not all "Americans" only US.
amaterasuu 6 months ago
New life expectancy figures show Americans some way behind countries like Canada, the UK and Australia. Why? Living in the world's richest country comes at a price, and it's measured in life years. Men in the US are on average aged 75 when they die. That is 1.5 years younger than men in the UK and 3.5 years younger than men in Australia, says a new study.
davijeph 6 months ago 2
The NHS is a bucket of shit. I dread the dat when some Government admin guy is in charge of my health care again.
The US has problems that stem from over-reliance on insurance, which causes high prices. But the solution is not Government, it is simply de-regulation.
LibertyDownUnder 7 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder "The NHS is a bucket of shit" an opinion based on what?
MUDSHARK111 6 months ago
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@MUDSHARK111, mostly based on this guy: /watch?v=xx0ktkr9s8I
LibertyDownUnder 6 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder SHIT Why do you talk it.
laptoplarryspc 5 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder
That's not what happens.
The government sets the system up.
Stage 1: you feel a bit peaky
Stage 2: you go to see an NHS doctor
Stage 3: he diagnoses you
Stage 4: he prescribes a treatment
Stage 5: you get the necessary drugs from the chemist at the flat NHS rate (like £7, even if the drugs are worth $700)
Stage 6: It doesn't work - the doctor refers you to an NHS specialist in the hospital (free)
Stage 7: you get the picture [run out of characters]
jazzx251 4 months ago
@jazzx251, then why are your surgery queues so long? Some of them go on for years, and in many hospitals - they get cancelled altogether?
You've got people waiting months just to see a dentist. Why?
LibertyDownUnder 4 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder
That's not true at all.
I visit an HHS dentist. You MUST attend a checkup every 6 months, and I get a text to remind me to be at the dentist the next day.
Last week, I visited my dentist as scheduled - she spotted a missing filling in the front tooth - I made an appointment for a week this Monday [I was offered earlier appointments, but they were in my working hours].
The cool thing is, I will pay the same if she discovers some other fillings during the procedure (4 once).
jazzx251 4 months ago
@jazzx251, this is from your "Sunday Times":
"In scenes more typical of the January sales, (Dental) patients arrived at first light at a new practice in Titchfield Common, Hampshire. Before the doors had opened, 2,000 people had registered online and over the phone. Hundreds more arrived in an attempt to grab the 1,000 remaining places. By the time the surgery opened at 10am, the queue stretched around the block."
LibertyDownUnder 4 months ago
@LibertyDown Your report is from 2007. What must be understood by none UK citizens is there are loads of private dental practises operating in the UK with no shortage of good dental care but like all private medicine it is very expensive to the average income citizen. Some years ago NHS dentistry had a series of salary disputes with the dental profession leading to a drop of NHS dentistry. These have now been overcome and many more practises take NHS work allowing access to lower income groups
davijeph 4 months ago
@davijeph, ok then here's one from 2010 (and it's getting worse, not better):
"Almost 80,000 Scots are still without a NHS dentist and waiting lists in some areas are at a standstill or have started growing again, it was reported yesterday."
"The Scottish government said access to NHS dentistry remained a problem in some places but stated that action was being taken to address shortages. A spokesman said 81.7 per cent of children and 63 per cent of adults were now on NHS books."
LibertyDownUnder 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LibertyDownUnder "The Scottish government said access to NHS dentistry remained a problem in some places but stated that ACTION WAS BEING TAKEN TO ADDRESS SHORTAGES". A spokesman said 81.7 per cent of children and 63 per cent of adults were now on NHS books." How does it get worse? Any Poor or low paid Scot like all Scots still have access to private dentistry if the NHS option was not available so are far better of than any US citizen.
davijeph 4 months ago
America's flawed "healthcare" system is third world. I wouldn't send my dog there. Only the crime rate is a bigger problem in America in my opinion
British doctor Stan Brock provides healthcare aid to over 200,000 Americans every year. Yes he does a great job.. however it will take hundreds of Stan Brocks to treat America's sick
Major reforms are needed in America to change its status of having the worst healthcare in the west, and i'm convinced Obama can initiate those reforms
Ali74 7 months ago
we definitely "redistribute" way too much money from the hard working wealth creators, to the people who sit at home and have children for a living. there are too many kids dropping out of school and having kids so the state buys them a house and gives them a salary. then their kids do the same and before you know it there are more of them than there are decent hard working ones. not a good way to go really.
isquatshitloads 7 months ago
@scottishcap2008 You also didn't reply , if you thought Churchill, Thatcher or Lord Hume where socialists ?
And I want an actual period (not "in the old days") when the UK was good for the majority of it's population. Oh yes, writing "idiot" just shows a lack of debating skill, and if you're going to claim that then please spell correctly and observe atleast some grammatical rules if not all of them.
bakersteven3 7 months ago
socialism sucks its turned the once great united kingdom into a drug infested giro scrounging hellhole were the kids grow up to work in tescos (if there lucky) and junkies are paid to sit at home and take smack all day all paid for by us. the people who actually work
scottishchap2008 7 months ago
@scottishchap2008 lol, you're an idiot. So, churchill, Lord hume, thatcher where socialist then.
It was great by having cheap labour and slavery...but then you wouldn't know that.
Please tell me when it was great (for the majority of people in the UK) ??
bakersteven3 7 months ago
@bakersteven3 at least i dont support subsidising gangsters and junkies to sit about all day and terrorise there neighbours, compared to the soviet union and any other socialist hellhole (ie nazi germany) britians always been great weve always respected the rule of law and have twice stopped europe from becoming a fascist state, you talk about slavery but we abolished it before any other imperial power and i dont think ethnic groups would be better off if hitler won the war, idiot
scottishchap2008 7 months ago
@scottishchap2008 LOL, I'm not sure when you wrote this but the USSR broke up over 10 years ago. Russia is no longer a communist country. You faile dmiserabley to actual answer the question. So, try again, Please tell me when it was great (for the MAJORITY) for people to be a UK citizen ?
As "britians always been great weve ", is a ridiculous statement, tapprently you have never heard of Dickens. Yes, we got rid of slavery not before we made considerablt wealth out of it.
Now try again.
bakersteven3 7 months ago
@bakersteven3 when has north korea been great for all its people? britian was great before we joined the EU, you sound like a typical self hating marxist that doesnt care if the government takes away your rights as long as you get your re-distribution giro
scottishchap2008 7 months ago
@scottishchap2008 WTF has North Korea got to do with this? Nothing.
YOU made the claim that "socialism" ruined the UK and it used to be better..
So, you mean before 1973 then ?
I think you should look at the economy in 1973, run of pound, losing trade, 3 day week, balance of payments where a joke, and the IMF had to bail us out !! because we where out of the EU, BTW it was the conservatives who took you into europe NOT the socialists. You have no historical knowledge whatsoever.
bakersteven3 7 months ago
@scottishchap2008 "you sound like a typical self hating marxist that doesnt care if the government takes away your rights as long as you get your re-distribution giro"
and you sound like a typical student tory who's never done a days work in his life. I work and have done since I was 18, I put myself through university and my MSc, I worked in cafes, bars, shops, warehouses, security guard to put myself through university. I've paid more taxes than you've had
What you ever done ? Except hate
bakersteven3 7 months ago
@scottishchap2008 "britian was great before we joined the EU" - I don't think you was alive then idiot. Even if you was i doubt you could remember what it was like. It is a shame that you haven't taken some time to read a fucking book on the subject. You are talking out of your arse.
TheSpankymonkey 4 months ago
A senior adviser to David Cameron says the NHS could be improved by charging patients and will be transformed into a "state insurance provider, not a state deliverer" of care.
Mark Britnell, who was appointed to a "kitchen cabinet" advising the prime minister on reforming the NHS, told a conference of executives from the private sector that future reforms would show "no mercy" to the NHS and offer a "big opportunity" to the for-profit sector.(The Observer 15/05/11).
Will the BBC cover this?
2LisbonTreaty 8 months ago
Sounds like Graham Linehan.
TomosANTIGUATomos 9 months ago
The NHS must be saved at all costs. It's a shining example of how well socialism can work! I will admit that the stories of mismanagement can be staggering, but the private sector is open to bad practice too.
MrLuckyyellowsocks 9 months ago 2
People complain that the NHS is rubbish etc. but how would Private healthcare be any better? Heathcare would then be even more about profit, the poorer people would be much more effected while the rich get nothing more than faster treatment where they would have got treatment anyway along with the hole nation involved too. I think if you asked most brits, especially cancer and disease survivors, they'd talk of the NHS with more affection than most americans would about their private healthcare.
dillondownie 10 months ago
@dillondownie
I believe that anything that is necessary for human survival should be in state hands.
So Health, Electricity, Gas, Food, Water, Transport networks (including rail) - should all be controlled by the state.
Everything else should be free market.
The free market should also be able to freely compete with the compulsory services that the state provides if it so chooses. That insures "efficiency" in the State's approach as it competes with a better effort from a private company.
jazzx251 4 months ago
@jazzx251 yeah, whatever's best really. But currently in britain the NHS is; if someone gets seriously ill/life threatening bupa or another insurance company have been known to move them to NHS centres because they dont have the facilities to cope with them... just saying.
dillondownie 4 months ago
is this graham linehan?
greyreview 11 months ago
@greyreview Sounds a bit like Bob Geldof to me...
NooNoo123 11 months ago
@greyreview I am fairly sure it is him, yes.
Tumsh 10 months ago
If you knew anything about UK politics you should know the newly elected government have already introduced sever cuts in the public sector debt problem, which I along with the majority of Brits believe to be required. A problem caused in part by the greed of the private banking system. Don't mistake support for the NHS or other UHC systems as support for socialism in other areas. It is a pity that the US governmental system is not allowed to operate so quickly when confronted with a crisis,
davijeph 1 year ago
@davijeph Don't lie! A majority of the british public are against the cuts, to start with the 500,000 people who marched on parliment last week! Look at he surveys, the figures the facts! There is a reason everyone is protesting and it isn't because they love loosing their jobs and are looking forward to high university fee's...don't lie.
Babs44sun 10 months ago
@Babs44sun Where do I lie? Even if I except your OTT figures I doubt that the majority of the UK population are apposed to public sector cuts given the state of the countries finances. We might not like them but even Labour (I voted for them at the last election) would have had to bring in swinging cuts in order to try and stop the country from economic collapse. I am a strong supporter of the NHS but that does not mean that some areas of public spending including welfare are not being abused.
davijeph 10 months ago
@davijeph Get the 850 billion back from the banks then start cutting.
crosbyj25 9 months ago 2
@crosbyj25 I agree with you but the reality is until the banks become viable and the Government can get our money back the country is in deep poo. Just to keep on spending money we do not have is not the answer. Like most I have been hurt by the present crisis and like most am angry with all those be they incompetent greedy Bankers, Politicians who should have known what the bankers where doing or the ordinary citizens living on credit they could not hope to repay but we are where we are.
davijeph 9 months ago
@davijeph You said the majority of the country believe they are neccasary. That IS a LIE! End of, I'm not saying they are not neccasary because that would require a bigger more complex