Example of lag with HD signal; Samsung LN40A650

[ps3zrockz]

Can anyone tell me a good HDTV where there's no lag input? Not too expensive, about $200+? thank you!

[OVERKILLxxPro]

@ps3zrockz I've had a Panasonic Viera for 6 years now and it hasn't served me wrong :) Its one of the original Vieras so I doubt they still sell it but at a guess I'd say they're probably still roughly the same so take a look at that line of TV if you want.

[quisqueyanews]

That's why i play on an old CRT TV. I will get another CRT TV in HD only for Call of Duty series.

CRT TV = 0 INPUT LAG NONE :-)

[faraga1]

@quisqueyanews If you get a decent HD TV you will have a really good gaming TV as well. I bought a new samsung 32" full HD tv with no noticable input lag for 319 euros.

[faraga1]

@quisqueyanews Well I just made the switch from CRT to LCD, and the disadvantage of a slight unnoticeable input lag is nothing compared to having a 4:3 size SD TV, where I am unable to see both sides of the TV, while also being able to count the pixels. My KDR's didn't get any blow due to the switch. Don't think a delay of a hundred of a second (10 ms) is noticeable, especially since a human reaction time is about one fifth of a second (200 ms).

[showofdeth]

samsung le32c530 or the 37" variant are IDEAL for gaming. Both have excellent input and response times making them the mutt's nuts with gaming and blueray.

[faraga1]

@showofdeth I have the LE32C530 for my PS3. Awesome TV.

[siggie12]

Could I ask which model of Sharp Aquos you settled on? I'm thinking of getting their 40" LC-40D78UN, but I've already had problems with input lag on a couple of other sets, so I want to make sure I get it right this time.

[chinkstaax713]

bro I have the same TV and it does indeed have "Game Mode" which will lower the input lag to 16-35ms and PC mode for 1080p which will lower it down to 10ms. LN46A650, theres a input lag thread of this on the avsforums if you google it.

[LgSxH4rdcore]

my has thay shit toooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! how do i fix it?

[kilo365days]

how lol? my small ass sdtv is perfectly fine no responce lag everything is spot on wat is this shit lol?

[S0ryiu]

@kilo365days because an SD tv works with zero lag at all since it has no precessors... it just displays the image as is with  no scaling.

[mijakamaj]

If i get a hdtv and it makes my game lag could i fix it, or do i gotta buy a new one??

[AGwolf2097]

@mijakamaj you can't really "fix" lag but you can try and reduce it by changing some settings on your TV>

Turn off: auto contrast, noise reduction, 120hz/smooth-motion/etc (every manufacturer calls it something different).

make sure the image isn't being scaled or stretched beyond the boundaries of the LCD (again, you'll have to find the option on your model)

Basically, change anything that might add extra processing time to the image

[Psychomike999]

@mijakamaj I got a 46in Led 1080p samsung with the lag problem. But there is a setting called game mode. It fixed the lag but my games looked so much better with the auto motion plus.

[jsun2k]

Basically you are having issues bc u are playing in 1080p. It introduces much lag (when I had a 360, the same thing would happen to me if I set the system at 1080p.

The reason is 95% of games don't EVER go over 720p natively and the 360 upscales them, thus adding latency. I have a samsung LCD tv as well so I felt your pain. This generation was lied to. These systems are really 720p for games. If u don't believe me, pick up a game that's for 360 AND ps3 and look at the back of the box for re

[AGwolf2097]

@jsun2k no dude, it was fully the TV. My 360 pumps out 1080p without any problem; I bought a Sharp Aquos instead, and actually own two now. No issues.

[jsun2k]

@AGwolf2097 Oh I see. I actually have a Sharp LCD but Its not Aquos so thats probably why it has the delay for me on 1080i lol

[modelcitizen1977]

@AGwolf2097 Love my Aquos D64 series. My friend also has a Samsung that's very fast with no extra processing.

[MOSTechnology]

If you do not want anymore comments or suggestions and you know longer have the TV anyway why dont you just delete the video?

[Sk8ordieknarlysk8er]

I didn't see any lag...

[DuudeWhatDoesMineSay]

Get a Panasonic G12 Panel (g10,g15,x10...). They don't lag. I've got one.

[seriouswerious]

Hi i was reading some of the comments (great info btw) and you said to turn sharpness to zero (0) but on my tv the sharpness setting ranges from 0 (lowest) to 100 (highest) i think some tv's range from like -30 to 0 (middle) then to +30

So i have my hdtv set to just scan/just fit, do you think i should put the sharpness setting to 50 (middle) ? thanks

[AGwolf2097]

@seriouswerious

maybe, of course different TVs handle stuff like that differently. My TV goes from 0 to +20... at 0, everything is crystal clear, but anything above that adds fake contrast around the edges of things and looks terrible... it's hard to explain how a TV actually processes an image, but basically it looks for edges of colors and increases the contrast in that area... if a TV is set to display a pixel perfect image, then usually the "sharpness" setting isn't necessary. your call.

[S0ryiu]

@seriouswerious depends, get a picture of somting with a fine pattern that has alot of black and little white lines in a cross hatch, if you see white outlines around the edge of the lines that means you have the sharpness too high (make sure it is a PNG or bitmap image not jpg and it's being run a the maximum resolution your tv cna preform or else artifcats may appear anyway,)

[xiMiintzx]

i have that same problem with my hdtv when i play mw2 it takes so long to turn and stuff

[mulder3035]

I had a SAMSUNG 26" for gaming.

It had horrific button lag,EVEN WITH GAME MODE ON.

It makes little difference in my experience.

I would never buy a SAMSUNG for gaming,unless they address this situation.

And even then i would have to test one myself,i simply dont trust samsungs for games.

Yes,all HDTVs suffer some sort of lag ...But not this bad,surely?

[tigerfan2k9]

you want a lag free gaming experience hunt down a hdtv crt television , sony makes a nice 34 inch hdtv tube that you could probably pick up on craigs list or ebay for around 300.00 and the picture of a nice hdtv tube still rivals the new tvs of today Sony KV-34HS420 34 inch TV

[AGwolf2097]

oh yeah, of course you could go CRT, but I have a 27" widescreen Philips CRT and it weighs like a hundred something pounds. The hell with that, I'm done lugging that thing around lol

I also own 2 Sharp Aquos TVs (a 32" and 42") and 3 of my friends got one of their own as well; best gaming TV we've found among all the different brands we've tried.

I do wish I had an HD CRT, I prefer a CRT's picture... but it's not worth trying to track one down at this point :/

[koolvidkid588]

I usually play my PS3 on an extremely ancient Panasonic TV. This TV is from around the either the mid 1980's to early 1990's. It really ruins the graphics that the PS3 can offer :P

My parents have a big LG plasma (that's all I know about it) that I tried playing on today. The picture was amazing, but the controller lag was just horrific, for the home screen, in Modern Warfare 2, and in Batman: Arkham Asylum. Only through button-mashing can I play at all.

Have any ideas to fix this?

[AGwolf2097]

I've resorted to telling people to skim through previous comments at this point lol :P Maybe I should write up an article somewhere online...

at any rate- make sure you're using HDMI or Component cables (HDMI preferably), find your TV's "game mode" or whatever LG calls it. Disable auto-contrast, 120hz/fine motion/smooth motion/whatever if the TV has it, make sure the TV isn't scaling the picture at all...

Traipse through the menus on the TV and see what you can find, lemme know how it goes

[koolvidkid588]

...Yeah no idea how to do any of that. I got lost by the beginning of the third line, starting with the auto-contrast.

[AGwolf2097]

well they're all picture settings. The idea is to disable as much image-processing as possible, to reduce the time it takes for the signal to go from the back of the TV to the screen. When the TV does things automatically like contrast, smoothing, etc, it adds a delay between the incoming signal and the output picture.

Grab the remote and the TV manual and you should be able to figure out where the settings are after a little while

[tmg331]

i have this same problem, but its not my internet or anything, its just because its an hd? I don't get it..every big screen hdtv ive had it has to have lag..what do i do??

[gruntelite117]

Im having this problem with my Xbox 360 on my new TV (with a component HD cable) set to 1080p. Also, my PS3 seems to not lag except the Killzone 2 demo, which lags enough to be almost unplayable.

[AGwolf2097]

Ouch :/ skim through my previous replies to other people who have commented with similar problems. It's usually the same fix, regardless of the brand of TV. You're looking for image scaling, "game mode," disabling all picture enhancements, etc. Drop me another message if you can't seem to make any progress.

also, consider getting an HDMI cable for your 360 if it has an HDMI port, and get one for the PS3 as well if you haven't got one already.

[xarmendarizx]

and I dont think its my internet cus it only jus happened recently. I have my ps3 hooked up with hdmi

[xarmendarizx]

Hey AGwolf I have a question. I just bought an insignia 1080p LCD tv a few days ago and I played dante's inferno on it and it was fine. then I played Modern warfare 2 online and its kinda weird. like when I push the reload or jump button it feels normal but l'll be running at a guy and when I shoot at him on my tv it looks like I shot first but then I end up dead and on the kill cam it shows he opened up like a second before me. What could this be??

[tmg331]

@xarmendarizx thats just mw2. Its just the crappy service you get from playing that game. Try mag.

[lockedine]

Sonic has lag already.

[AGwolf2097]

No.  No it doesn't.

[wadu18]

I just bought the Samsung 55 LED 6000 series and the lag is awful without the game mode on. So Every time I play my PS3 I have to turn it on but the picture is so much better with the game mode off. I play Uncharted online, and I get massacred everytime I try to play with game mode off. I used to play my PS3 on a 42 inch Viera and now I totally realize why Plasma is the best way to go with gaming. I bought an Aquos before that but ended up returning it because of the lag.

[AGwolf2097]

Interesting, because I've not had any lag issues with my two Aquos TVs, nor the 3 I suggested for friends of mine.

Whatever the case, try adjusting your picture settings with game mode on. Put backlight at about half, sharpness to zero (if you have it on "just fit" mode or whatever Samsung calls it, you're already seeing the exact image, no need to sharpen it). put your contrast around 80% and brightness just a tad below middle.

People often put brightness, contrast, and backlight too high.

[tmg331]

@wadu18 how would you put game mode off or on? would you do that with your ps3? Or your tv?

[AGwolf2097]

That's a setting on your TV... most TVs have it, but you have to fish around through the menus; and different brands put it in different places.

[wadu18]

If you have the same TV, on the MENU list you go down 3 or 4 to I believe is advanced settings and from there you can see the GAME MODE option. I'm not at home right now but I will check later if you still can't find it.

[tmg331]

@wadu18 oh i have the sony bravia..but it might have the same thing, its a pretty new tv..thanks!

[seriouswerious]

I have a question..

IF you play a PS3 game that supports up to 1080p (480p,720p,1080i,1080p) will there be any chance of Input lag/lag if you play at 720p on a 720p native LCD HDTV using an HDMI cable on a PS3?

[AGwolf2097]

There -shouldn't- be... The whole idea is to match the TV's -native- resolution, so it doesn't have to do any extra internal stretching/scaling. Hence why, if you read my reply to "basketball10125" below, I said to also turn off all the image processing settings and look for the option which will display the picture unscaled.

every time the TV has to process the signal, it adds a little more lag. Each brand does it different, so some WILL have lag at different resolutions, and some won't.

[basketball10125]

yea i have a 52 inch samsung flatscreen lcd tv and its great but its late to my ps3 controller and it really agrivates me cuz i cant play cod online without geting fucked up so i have to play on my tv which is not hd and looks horrible how can i fix this problem, i have an hdmi cable, it still lags

[AGwolf2097]

HDMI is a good start-- is your TV 720p or 1080p? Make sure the PS3 is matching the TV's native resolution.

make sure "Game mode" is enabled

turn OFF Noise Reduction

turn OFF Auto/dynamic Contrast

turn OFF 120hz/"Auto Motion Plus"

set viewing mode to "Just Scan" instead of "Wide" or "16:9." "Just Scan" will display the entire picture pixel-for-pixel without any added image scaling, and thus further reduce lag

[basketball10125]

1080 and thanks man its working great now i had a tough time finding game mode

[saiisthebest]

@AGwolf2097

Cheers man.

I play sports games alot and when I play a long game or something I experience lag.

I thought this was because I don't have a 200Hz tv but I Switched on game mode and it's fine now.

I Never really used game mode, i just thought it changes contrast etc.

Thanks!

[angelac543]

thats sucks cause i got the ln40a650 and got no problem with lag, and i can play cod online no problem

[AntaresLite]

Thanks for the upload! : )

[aolish]

input lag exists on many HDTVs of today. Depending on the make and model each hdtv can vary in input lag. Some lag worse then others. I just wish they would already fix this problem. Till then I'll still continue using my old style crappy tv since i play alot of fighting games.

[RSX1304]

i agree i was usin a panasonic crt it worked w/o lag then bought a 42 in sharp and mgo lags bad

[pedrogregorio]

@RSX1304 fuck.. i gotta sharp and theres a slight lag... very slight, yet noticable.

[0neofthem]

game mode makes a huge difference its really great

[DavetzWin]

where do you find game mode? on the menu, i mean

[0neofthem]

i think its on display

[ozphish]

That particular model Samsung, the LN40A650, DOES have a "game mode" which drastically reduces/eliminates noticeable input lag. I don't know how you were not able to find it. You just push the "mode" button on the remote...

[carlmolito]

out of no where my samsung 37A550 all the sudden wont pick up my 360 hdmi signal. It just says no signal, tried 3 cables, so it's not the cables. i threw out the rca 6 cables that came with my 360 like a year ago, man do i feel like an idiot now. anyone else have this problem, know of a fix? i updated 2 firmwares and nothing

[GypsyGhost]

I've seen that the Sharp is almost lag-free. But I've been reading that some users experience some banding issues. Have you experienced something like that on your Sharp HDTV?

[AGwolf2097]

No banding what-so-ever with my tv at least... maybe they were using older models? poor-quality cables? No idea, but this tv is absolutely amazing.

[msmyla91]

I plan to buy the successor of this model (LN40B650) and connect Wii through an RGB cable to this TV. I play Guitar Hero a lot (but I have read reviews and the reviewers managed to reduce the input lag to 17-34ms through VGA in the game mode, but without it it was terrible) do you think the input lag will be annoying annoying or not? or will the game be unplayable?

[AGwolf2097]

the Wii can only make a maximum resolution of 480p with component cables; the TV will have to stretch the 480p signal to fill its 1080 screen, which will introduce more input lag than already exists. I don't know what VGA connection you're talking about because Wii doesn't have a VGA cable.

Guitar Hero has a way to compensate for video/input lag, but your best bet would be to test the TV in-store before you buy it. Use component cables when you do the test. Or just get a Sharp Aquos :)

[msmyla91]

Thanks for the answer. There are VGA cables (not original Nintendo) for Wii but they are expensive. And yes, the reviewers checked the input lag for Xbox360 and PS3.

:S The trouble is, I can't really test the TV, not in my country. I can go to a store and see this TV but not really test anything.

My parents only want a Samsung btw, so I can't buy a Sharp either :/

Do you know how big the input lag is for CRT TVs? I have a 15 or 20 year old Sony Trinitron and it seems to be lag-free.

[msmyla91]

Nope sorry 17-34ms input lag for PS3 EITHER in game mode OR through VGA cable. But if the TV has to scale up the Wii image so much, the lag will be bigger, but do you think the games will be unplayable?

[AGwolf2097]

Wow, I just googled and found info about an upcoming Wii VGA cable.. nice :D

Most electronics retailers should allow you to test the products they have on display if you're going to be giving them your money. I would still try asking them, at least.

If you're not buying it yourself, though, I can't really convince your parents to buy something else. Who knows, you may be lucky and not have any input lag afterall; my friend has a 50" Samsung 720p plasma with no lag...

CRTs have no lag.

[GypsyGhost]

Input lag is a pain!! I hate that. But I want to know something. If you play a game on the xbox 360 with component cables at 720p on a 1080p native LCD, is there any chance of input lag because of that?

[AGwolf2097]

Yes, because the TV's video processor has to stretch and scale the 720p image to fill the 1080p screen dimensions.

But the Sharp Aquos I ended up buying can take an interlaced 480i signal and display it with no lag, so I've stopped really caring about the issue lol :D

[GypsyGhost]

I have a Bravia and Im having that problem, but I know it could be because Im running component cables with a 1080p LCD,. I will connect it with an HDMI to get the full 1080, but the problem is that there are lot of games that are not 1080p. So whats the model # of that sharp Aquos? I may end up buying one of those.

[AGwolf2097]

With your bravia, double check a couple things. Make sure "game Mode" is enabled if the option exists, otherwise turn off auto-contrast, noise reduction, etc etc. See if there is an image size option, it'll have osmething like 4:3, 16:9, Wide Fit, and so forth- you need to select whatever one will give you the FULL picture that the TV is receiving over your HDMI cable.

This Aquos is model number "LC-42D65U"

[Realmasterorder]

It is an Upscaling/Downscaling problem

Any TV with 8ms or less should not have any lag issues that you can notice.

It has to do with the time it takes to upscale or downscale a signal and resolution.

If you connect it to an analogue cable or scart cable you will see that the problem will cease to exist,at least that is what i have heard please try it and let me know too :)

[AGwolf2097]

facepalm.jpg I've long since gotten rid of this TV. Believe me, I tried all that happy horse-shit. I know the ins and outs of what does and doesn't cause lag on an HDTV. I've said to other people who have said the same thing, 8ms or less has nothing to do with input lag, it's the time it takes for the pixels to change from one state to another. Input lag is caused by image processing; this TV had wicked back input lag, even with everything turned off. Nothing would have changed it.

[voltz15]

I just noticed one of my posts has bad spelling in it, pardon me.

[voltz15]

Forgot to mention refresh rate doesn't mean video delay. manufactures make it a point to hide that.

[voltz15]

Bad purchase choice. You can avoid this buy bringing your system with you to the store and asking for a quick test run through svideo and a/v hookups. I did once with super mario world and was able to notice with sets had a good processor.

[blackdragon1911]

try switching to game mode

[AGwolf2097]

I've long since gotten rid of the TV, but believe me I looked for it and couldn't find the option. I doubt it would have been much different than me turning off all image processing options anyway.

[RazorzTheName1991]

My gosh, I hate this!

[down4afall]

I think I figured it out. Have you opened the service mode and adjusted the HDMI delay time? I set mine to 0ms and I think it's pretty close now. Open the service menu (turn the TV off, Mute 182 Power), then go to Option Byte, and HDMI Delay Time.

I'd love to know if that works for you.

[AGwolf2097]

I did go into the service menu when I had the tv (i've since returned it), but I don't recall an "hdmi delay" option- and I'm pretty sure I scoured all the different options. Maybe I'll check that out when I go look at TVs again today; I just have to hope the store associates have access to the remotes.

[down4afall]

I just bought a similar television, except a generation down, the LN46A530, and I don't think I have the same lag problems that you have. Do you currently have that 120 hz feature turned on? I don't have that option on my television and I wonder if that's a stand out difference.

[AGwolf2097]

I turned off the 120hz feature and still got lag :/ it really disappointed me because I love Samsung's products. This tv was just not made for gaming in mind.

[down4afall]

I looked up the manual, and there is an "e-mode" setting on the TV called "Game", which apparently turns off alot of the tv's post processing features (the manual says "Game: Provides the optimal picture and sound quality for games. This mode accelerates the playing speed when using an external game console connected to the TV.")

I hate to bother you with solutions you've probably already tried but for some reason I feel compelled to find some sort of resolution.

[treyatl2006]

I dont experience no lag on my ps3 with that same tv....

[AGwolf2097]

What settings were you using? I turned off all of the automatic picture enhancements, and I tried both an HDMI and the component cables. A racing game like Wipeout HD is almost completely unplayable with lag like that.

[hypermetalsonic]

oh srry.. Was just searchin plasm samsung 650 and this vid came up

I now see the "L" on ur title.. Guess "P" stands for plasma :P

Sorry for the miss understanding x-x"

[AGwolf2097]

AUGH I clicked remove comment by accident! Someone asked "Wait i dont get it. I feel confused. you mean motion blur, ghosting, etc. whats the difference in these things."

Motion blur is when things on the screen are moving and you get a trailing image.

Ghosting is when the signal is weak/dirty and you see multiple images horizontally beside each other.

My issue is the response time from when I press a button and the picture reacts to what I did.

[hypermetalsonic]

ghosting only applys to LCD's... right? I;ve givin up on LCDs.. cant find anything that doesnt ghost

Which is why I'm planning on buying a plasma.. The Samsung 50" A650.. But your saying your having input lag with your plasma?

Now I'm feeling un easy bought getting this tv now -_-"

[AGwolf2097]

Ghosting can happen on any TV, it's a result of a poor signal (weak cable line, cheap unshielded cables, etc)

You might be confusing it with motion blur; motion blur is when something on screen moves and you see a trail behind it. You typically don't get this on TVs with a 120hz refresh rate, but sometimes that introduces lag between input and final image.

btw, the TV in this video is not a plasma tv, I never said it was. Just bring your 360/ps3 with you and test TVs when you go to buy one.

[tribalturtletube]

No, ghosting is an inherit problem with LCDs visible on a black/no input screen. There are "flashlights" that is light bleed through on the corners, and "ghosting" is random bleed in the picture.