TimesTalks: Michael Caine: An Accent That Broke Class Barriers

[Matthewkilb]

'Michael Caine chose to keep his native Cockney accent'?

Don't make me laugh!

He probably claims that these days, seeing as he seems to have turned into the world's most pompous man.

[aomimezura11]

Michael Caine chose to keep his native Cockney accent...

Then he says "this isn't a cockney accent, it's general" WTF DUDE? I want to hear his bloody accent damn it!

[dpthomas37]

why are the comments below about castrated bulls. this is about michael caine.

[16nwb1]

Love him

[ignoranttwat]

To anyone reading rejectedchik89's comment, note that the class system is very different in America to Britain.

[bowler8]

thats true about the accent...americans now need to accept people for who they are and where they come from and don't discriminate. 

[koala8]

cockney accent reminds me of australian accent...

[mooneepondskid]

@koala8 Not even close.

[Kie10McC]

@mooneepondskid

Infact, it is extremeley similar. The Australian accent is a mixture of English and Irish due to the influx of prisoners sent over there. So if you actually listen you will realise how similar they really are. For example an Aussie would say 'G'day mate' and a Cockney would say 'Alright Mate'.

[mooneepondskid]

@Kie10McC Most of the english slang mannerisms that transferred to Australia are from Yorkshire. The London criminal slang of the late 18th century does occur a little in Australia..but that wasn't necessarily a cockney thing though.

[bowler8]

@Kie10McC bull

[Kie10McC]

@bowler8 I'm sorry, you have just said the name of a species of Cattle, are you alright?

[bowler8]

@Kie10McC I mean bull shit

[Kie10McC]

@bowler8 You don't quite grasp sarcasm do you. Let me guess, an American?

[zachsmith88]

@Kie10McC A bull is not a species of cattle. It is actually the term used for an adult male that is not castrated. This is used with many other hoofed animals as well such as moose, dolphins, and alligators.

[Kie10McC]

@zachsmith88 It is actually a species of Bos taurus (cattle), but is just castrated. Still a species.

[zachsmith88]

@Kie10McC "a : a male bovine; especially : an adult uncastrated male domestic bovine

b : a usually adult male of various large animals (as elephants, whales, or seals)" (miriam-webster)

"Noun 1. Bos taurus - domesticated bovine animals as a group regardless of sex or age; "so many head of cattle"; "wait till the cows come home"; "seven thin and ill-favored kine"- Bible; 'a team of oxen'" (thefreedictionary) I have not been able to find this "species" of cattle you speak of.

[MrWoodsMan1]

As much as I love him he is still a fucking tory lol

[bowler8]

@MrWoodsMan1 not sure why politics needs to come into it

[jla9180]

@chstfr311311 He didn't say it SHOULD exist, he said it DOES. Not everyone makes that snap judgement, but some do- that was his point.

[FreshDoodooMix]

And look how the media has changed. If anything, they like to enforce working class accents within the UK now, what with all the mockney mugs in things like Skins and shit. Not to mention in all the music. This guy is one of my idols, man. A true, old school gentleman, regardless of race or whatever. I hope one day I meet him, man. There's a picture on the wall on the estate down the road form where he grew up that some kids drew of him. He's revered.

[stayjit1]

It amazes me that England - founder of the english language - has developed so many regional accents and dialects. I have met many English in Canada whose accents, while distinctly different,are still incomprehensible to my poor colonial ears.

[ALBIONTYKE]

It's generally in southern England where people have a class distinction with accents. In the north of England nobody gives a toss about changing their accent. In fact its more the other way round, in the north people tend to make fun of posh people because to us they sound stuffy. The Scots dont care much either apart from maybe in Edinburgh.

[jackymillionaire]

he's a romanichel gypsy 

[recruitmentch]

@jackymillionaire only part

[sess2k9]

My name is Michael Paine...and I'm a nosey neighbour

[Rachiejane1]

@sess2k9 Hahaha! CLASSIC!

[lebonpost]

By the way Michael Caine can do a texan hill billy accent to perfection.

[UncleVall]

He sounds like Del Boy.

[parklife101]

so what is up with the english cast system? Are people from Cockney (which i assume is a city) known to be a little....lack luster in the brains department? Similar to hill-billies or red necks in America? I'm Canadian. I don't know. I am interested in this though. never knew england had a cast system.

[RickyboyH]

@parklife101 Cockney is a dialect, it hails from the eastern parts of london if im not completely wrong. Places like Hackney, Stepney, Leytonstone etc would probably be right in the middle of "cockney-land" :P

[kamelion7]

@RickyboyH A Cockney has to be born within the sound of Bow Bells and those Bells are the bells of St Mary Le-Bow church in Fleet Street EC1. It is not Bow the place in East London at all, so Leytonstone is a bit out of it, although nowadays anyone who speaks with a London accent is termed a Cockney...

[RickyboyH]

@kamelion7 Didn't know that! Thank you!

[papayankee69]

@EdwardQuid It will never die,at least not while i have air in my lungs.My family have lived and worked in the east end for over two hundred years,and thats as far back as i could trace.But i now hate what the East End as become,i know that it as always been a melting pot of differance cultures but i fill the true Cockney has been forced out.I am one of five children and the only one that still lives in the East End and the only way they will get me out will be feet first ....innit.

[booshpower]

@papayankee69 the general cockney accent will never die, since so many people from essex have inherited it from the people who moved out of the east end, although it won't be heard in the east end at all in 30 years time

[HollyAmyPack]

@papayankee69 Even though the Eastend was described as the shithole of London it was a working class shithole. It's we're we belong if you know what I mean. I know how you feeling mate east street market as gone down hill and alot of us are glad it's going cos it was destroyed 15 years ago.

[papayankee69]

@EdwardQuid To be a true Cockney you must be born withing the sound of Bow Bells,which are in St Mary Le,bow Church in Cheapside in the City of London.Michael Caine was born in Rotherhithe,so he would need bloody good hearing to hear them all the way other there.What Michael as is a London accent ,just like all the other ppl born South of the River and in North London and in the West of London and also some of the ppl born in the East.I hope this explains it for you.

[HollyAmyPack]

@papayankee69 Believe it or not Bermondsey, Rotherhithe, Peckham and Borough are in the bow bells and people believe that up to now Bermondsey is a place were the majority of people are cockney in London. But you gotta remember after the war all the cockneys were scattered out all over London once council estates were built that's why you can here west Londoners and north Londoners with the accent. Look at Amy Winehouse she was brought up in Southgate and hear her accent.

[MultiSmartass1]

Caine is one of the finer actors to come out of English films. Basically self-taught, Caine didn't want to let go out of his background and pretend to be something he wasn't (he was already doing that as an actor). I think Caine was one of those actors who helped change the filmic landscape and soundscape in England by showing that working class actors could have a valid and major presence in film and television without speaking posh.

[brittnga]

I love his accent! Cockney is one of my favorite accents, ever. We did A Christmas Carol, and I opted for the less prominent role of "The Laundress" Mostly because I loved using the accent.

And, for the better sake of mentioning such... I can't think of a single posh accented actor I like as much as Caine. I just love his accent.

~P.S. I'm no accent expert. I just knows what I like. ;D

[BlackDahliaMurder214]

Man, if i got robbed by a gangster with a cockney accent, id feel like im playing Fable

[LiviaAnnRox]

I can't tell... I'm German. He sound sjust really American to me?!

[OLee82]

@LiviaAnnRox amerikanisch? Frag mich grad wann und wo du mal nen Ami so sprechen gehört hast. XD

[papayankee69]

i think michael caine is a great actor ...but he aint a cockney,he is from south london and not the east end or the city.......

[Idolores]

Bless your heart, Michael Caine.

[rejectedchik89]

Yeah I think he doesn't understand that we American's DO understand, we kind of have a system like that too. For instince, people who have a heavy southern accent are considered to be a bit more unintelligent.

[Erik3E]

@rejectedchik89 And for the rest off the world all parts of the US seem retarded.

[MIKAFAN41]

@rejectedchik89 though it's not true.. lol, I'm from the South, I don't really have an accent, BUT My cousin does, and she is in a 4 year nursing college making straight A's. I don't get why y'all is considered unintelligent either.. it's just a compound of "You all".. as long as you don't say it like "Yaw" it's fine. :)

[rejectedchik89]

@MIKAFAN41 Noo no I didn't mean that people from the south, that have that accent, ARE unintelligent, I meant that people who don't have an accent like that, and then hear a southern accent, might think that it doesn't SOUND very intelligent. Just like people with cockney accents might in fact be very intelligent. Accent really has nothing to do with intelligence, it's just perceived that way by some people.

[MIKAFAN41]

@rejectedchik89 I wasn't disagreeing with you. ;)

I was disagreeing with the people you were referring to, Ha ha

[rejectedchik89]

@MIKAFAN41 Oh whoops, I'm sorry about that :p Anyway, MIKA is awesome xD

[MIKAFAN41]

@rejectedchik89 tis okay. ;)

Yeah, He really is xD

[ttlwh]

@rejectedchik89 actually the US and UK social systems are quite different. In the UK the social hierarchy (at least until the 70s) was particularly rigid. Cockney wasn't just frowned upon, it basically labelled the person as, well, "trash" and further hindered social climbing.

Accents being so closely related to socio-economical classes, they frequently revealed the political affiliation of the individual, social struggles being quite prominent at the time.

[rejectedchik89]

@ttlwh I can understand that. I'm sure it is still that way a little bit, just as it is in the US.

[ttlwh]

@rejectedchik89 I was trying to say is that the South and whatever animosity against its accent(s) is not a valid comparison, the reasons being mainly historical and cultural (let's not get into details). It's a geographical and cultural area with its distinct social divisions.

Cockney's roughly the equivalent of a heavy NY or Boston accent (working-class and non-intellectual). And generally the notion of social classes stateside is pretty lax (in comparison).

[quarkwrok]

@ttlwh no the actual mobility is roughly the same and has been since the 19th century with the same working/middle/upper classes but the accents are much more distinct and the pressure to adopt the relevant accent immense. 3 of my grandparents had very working class accents but weren't all poor, both my parents quite middle class, my sister is quite posh but I have a more working class London accent and I live in the Midlands!

[Findiglay]

@rejectedchik89 Thats a regional accent though. Its very different.

[rejectedchik89]

@Findiglay How so?

[Findiglay]

@rejectedchik89 Well, the Clintons or the Bush's, for example, don't stand out all that much from the way they speak. There are some differences of course, but in Britain the difference in accent between upper and lower class is not regional - if you're upper class, it dosent matter where you come from, you'll speak with an upper class 'posh' accent. It's an instant indicator of your social position.

[rejectedchik89]

@Findiglay Well the Clinton's and Bush's have actually been made fun of for their accents before, and have also been made for of for being stupid (like in SNL skits and such), and their accent plays a big role in the charade. There are people here that change their accent based on status, because some people (like actors) are told to because it is said to raise their social status, or help them to land gigs.

[Mrtre7]

@rejectedchik89 That's different. In America, like everywhere in the world for that matter, there is a local accent from which you can tell where people is from. Then if you are prejudiced against that particular part of the country you react accordingly. In England, different wealth classes belonging to the same area (London but also Essex) speak differently. It is a distinctive trait of social condition. It is literally a code, a message to let others know who's your mate and who isn't.

[rejectedchik89]

@Mrtre7 I think I understand what you are saying, however, sometimes accents here can also attribute to social status. Wealthy people usually speak with a certain sort of accent.

[Fitzcard]

@rejectedchik89 I personally talk like im from michigan when im in california, like im from Boston when im in texas, like im from texas when im in Chicago, like im from seattle when im in NY, like im from Jersey when im in virgina, and like im from Georgie when im in oklahoma. And of course like im from minnosota ya when im in Loosana cajun contree

I suppose we should just all talk like we're from Ohio and be done with it though. mmmm Dairy Farmer speak....

[rejectedchik89]

@Fitzcard Hahaha!

[thebiggreencouch1]

@rejectedchik89 Actually the idea of Cockney being a lower class way of speaking was simply from the city of London (East Enders particularly), while you are just talking about the entire country of the US. So it IS different.

[ReviewClassicMovies]

@thebiggreencouch1 ..It originated from London prisoners being shipped to Australia for imprisonment. That is how it started. That is the reason why it is classified as lower class. Centuries ago, and perhaps now (cause people are stupid) its considered lower class. I love it.

[rejectedchik89]

@thebiggreencouch1 Well I've always thought it was supposed to be representative of lower class as well. That's what you see in the movies, so I suppose I grew up thinking that. However I also know it's ridiculous to think that someone is stupid just because of their accent.

[DurwardMatt]

@rejectedchik89 a bit? ;P

[jizzyjizzyjizzyjizzy]

@rejectedchik89

not at all the same thing.

[tranurse]

@rejectedchik89 like i tell people, i;m southern, not stupid

[AncientSusquehanna]

@rejectedchik89 Yes,but Americans can climb to a higher class fairly easily.Also Americans of every class are encouraged to speak US business English & so poor Americans who speak business English aren't considered to be putting on airs & posing as something they aren't the way a working class Brit who speaks with a 'posh' accent would be.There's a strong belief in the US that the amount of respect you deserve is determined by your behavior rather than where you were born & your paycheck.

[rejectedchik89]

@AncientSusquehanna Yes I suppose that is true. I have nothing against Michael Caine at all. I realize my comment sort of made it sound that way.

[kjohnson5525]

@rejectedchik89 lol yes a bit more unintelligent....... or people who say a bit more unintelligent come across as less smarterer......

[rejectedchik89]

@kjohnson5525 Here. "For instance, people who have heavy southern accents are usually considered to be inferior" is that better, or...? Do I need bigger words? Do I need to have perfect, exuberant, eloquent grammar all of the time? Especially when I'm talking about accents and not grammar at all?

[xOEHLALA]

FUCK OFF WITH THE STUFF TESTERS ADD

[WackoRhailent]

I'm sorry, Sean Connery adapted his accent? Hahaha!

[Gellis2009]

Michael Caine is such a legend. He is fantastic in harry brown. He is a legend

[moegdaog]

Im from the states and i just gotta say he is Top class..Top shelf..simply Tops..Michael caine is my favorite briton actor. Harry brown is a sick movie just watched that the other day and i suggest eveyrone here go and watch it. He is old school Proper Cockney Underground, love it - cheers

[MatttJack]

Wow.

Integrity.

+1

[speedfreak18ish]

as rich and famous as he is hes still a down to earth cockney geezer. respect him.

[ReviewClassicMovies]

@speedfreak18ish Yes he is. Humbleness is a sign of Greatness. How can future generations learn from a cocky actor? 

[ddruff]

Caine is a number 1 gent. Love him.

[kirkwanglers32]

Fantastic actor. every film he dose it better than the last.

God Bless Micky.

[MrTheBeast]

michael caine is a true beest

[darksnow07]

Amazing actor and man. Truly a blessing, he is.

[mikkibug93]

It's not difficult to understand at all Dear Michael =D

The sort of pressure you feel about the Cockney accent is the disdain that's thrown at us Southerners with our 'hick accents'. 'City Folk' look down on having our dialect, so I completely understand where you're coming from.

[cribsays]

I think that's a bit of a generalization and even an error in some cases. For example, the New York accent (which is a "city" accent) isn't generally seen as intellectual and is commonly looked down on by outsiders. I would know, I have one. And personally, I know that myself and many of my friends find southern accents very charming. I've encountered very few people who have ever looked down on someone for speaking with a southern accent. However, I do know ppl who take issue with Ebonics.

[rubberrev0lver]

having a NY accent is not the same as ebonics

[cribsays]

I never implied that.

[pugsley141]

I think everyone outside the USA looks down on southern USA accents.

[PtolemyJones]

Most of us inside, too.

[speedfreak18ish]

i love the southern u.s accents i live in u.k and the cleaner at my work is from corpus christi in texas.... she has one hell of a funny accent lol

[fzeeshan]

so does everyone in US.

[1988MILLWALL]

@mikkibug93 I've always felt that us cockneys were the English version of people from New York like in Brooklyn and The Bronx cos we live in the city with the rich folk who live in Chelsea which is equlivent to Manhattan. I think Southern Americans are more like Northerners in England when it comes to houses, accent and culture.

[original503]

@mikkibug93 Amen! haha... Especially if you speak southern and ebonics!

[lolipoper69]

I dont think keeping his accent has affected his career in anyway, most people wouldnt be able to tell the differance

[kipling71]

He's done alright.

[9thprotocol]

Caine is mistaken...his decision to keep a working class accent has been detrimental to his acting career.....that's why most of the films he's made are 2-bit B movies

[mumskid87]

seriously?